well where those clots can sometimes form. get up a lot as well, walk around the plane and make new friends while you are at it, if you see me up there, which you likely could, say hi. that will wrap things up for "sg md." time to get you back into the "cnn newsroom" with brianna keilar. you are in the "cnn newsroom." i'm brianna keilar. isis militants are reportedly selling abducted iraqi girls and women to other isis fighters in syria. a uk-based monitoring group reports isis recently sold 300 girls and women from the yazidis, the reported price about $1,000 for each female, this comes as secretary of state john kerry has written a strongly worded op-ed in "the new york times" calling for more nations to help the u.s. defeat isis. kerry writes, quote, a much fuller response is demanded from the world.

no civilized country should shirk its responsibility to help stamp out this disease. and right now people in the uk have fresh worries about a possible isis attack. britain has raised its threat level to severe. >> the terrorist attack is highly likely. but there is no intelligence to suggest that an attack is imminent. >> i want to bring in now karl penhaul, he's there in londen. you've been covering this since the threat level was increased yesterday. are you seeing any visible signs of increased security, of more police presence there on the streets? >> brianna, i have been really surprised. today in london we've hit some of the key points. it's a busy shopping day today as well. at one point at kings cross-train station, that's one of the biggest train stations in the country, i said to a policeman in a vehicle there, hey, are you part of the increased response because of the terror alert? he said, no, no, you've got it wrong. there is no terror alert.

the threat's only moderate. one of his colleagues said, no, no, the journalist has it right, i saw something on the tv about it. so a lot of people really aren't aware that this is going on. let's take a look at something that we found out. >> reporter: britain is on the high alert but government is telling us that a jihadi attack is highly likely so we've come down to the streets of central london to see if there are signs of panic. this is kings cross train station. >> what happens, what happens. you don't think every time you get on the train something will happen. >> i think it's trying to make people scared really. that's all it is. make people scared and then they'll -- they'll -- they're more likely to support something if the government then eventually did try to go into iraq. >> reporter: britain is no stranger to homegrown terror plots. in 2005 in the so-called seven seven attacks four suicide

bombers killed 52 people in london. >> if you let things like that rule your life, you'd never do anything. so although you are aware of it and you hope that the government's on top of the situation, you just got to take it on trust that they are. >> reporter: police chiefs are saying that they'll step up patrols in public spaces like train stations and airports and tourist hot spots like here in trafalgar square but saturday afternoon there was no sign of that except near the one that is getting married, this group of young women out on a pre-wedding hen party dressed as british bobbies. but the crackdown on radical islam is leaving some feeling uneasy fearing it could turn into a witch hunt against all muslims. >> it's like in movies alien invasion the first thing people think about attacking them. that's exactly the same thing with us. they don't know why we do it or what it is that we want from this so they go and attack it because they don't know it. >> yes, there is radicalism, but that exists in every community and not justice lamb but islam

has been focused and used as a same goat. >> we are in the middle of a generational struggle. >> reporter: mr. cameron said he could announce new measures to parliament this week. no word on how long the heightened terror alert could last. prime minister david cameron did say that there wasn't any specific intelligence suggesting that an attack was imminent. he did link it, of course, to the more than 500 british jihadis suspected of fighting in syria and iraq with isis. but as you can see there, the average everyday briton really isn't getting panics by this at all, brianna. >> and some think maybe there is no reason to be concerned. fascinating report. karl penhaul for us in london. as concern over russia's actions in ukraine continues to grow we're hearing a frightening warning from one of the european leaders meeting in belgium today, he said russia is nearing a, quote, point of no return in ukraine. a cnn team saw ukrainian forces

strengthening defensive positions on the outskirts of the city, reinforcing checkpoints, digging trenches there along the roads that are leading towards the russian border, this a day after russia's foreign minister denied accusations that russian troops crossed into ukraine despite these nato images. let me bring in heather conley with the center of strategic and international studies and a former deputy assistant secretary of state for the bureau of european and your asian affairs. thanks for being with us. one of the things i'm curious about is the semantics of this. we hear some people really reticent in the u.s. government to call this an invasion. but is it time to simply call this a war? >> i think it's time to call it an invasion. in some ways we help prolong president putin's game if you will of trying to use hybrid warfare, taking, you know, russian license plate off of vehicles, taking badges off to try to obscure the fact that

russia has sent troops and very sophisticated weapons and tanks into ukraine. ukrainian president said today this may be a point of no return. he's absolutely right. this key city if the russians are able to take that and they create a land bridge from crimea to the eastern ukraine in some ways russia has divided ukraine. the stakes are enormous and it's time for us, certainly for the obama administration to begin calling a spade a spade and then start taking some very significant action not only to shore up nato countries but really to examine ways to support the ukrainian military. >> and if they call it an invasion, the imperative to do something increases? >> of course, it does. and that's what places enormous stakes next week when president obama attends a nato summit in wales. >> yeah. >> nato is already going to talk about a pretty robust plan, but maybe it's time to revisit that. make it more robust for the nato

countries and then maybe thinking about providing lethal assistance to the ukrainian military. time is of the essence. we don't have time and certainly the ukrainian military is certainly looking increasingly shaky as they try to defend their country. >> today the european commission president said, quote, this is a point of no return. this inevitable, that point of no return. do you see this being a pivotal moment, and do you think there's a way to turn the tide in ukrai ukraine? >> that's a great question. what we've seen over the last month has been a dramatic escalation of russian support to the separatists and now it's no longer support. they're pouring troops into ukraine. sanctions have unfortunately not changed president putin's cal cuelations. if anything i almost feel like they've emboldened him. yesterday's comments from president putin reminding us of russia's importance, reminding ucks that russia is a nuclear power he feels quite emboldened

and that's why it's very important for nato next week to put a strong statement out. there's strong solidarity. the european union is already going to it looks like enhance sanctions against russia. the united states needs to do the same and there needs to be a robust security response. >> yeah, we'll be watching next week especially as some in the administration arguing those sanctions are having more effect. it's great to get your perspective, heather conley, thank you. that point of no return statement was an ominous warning. what would it mean for this crisis? we'll go live to kiev ahead for more on that. not many people are willing to fight isis. we'll learn who will join a coalition against these militants. you do a lot of things great.

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in iraq isis fighters are kidnapping women, selling them into enslaved marriage. michael weiss is a contributor for politico magazine and he's joining me now live from kiev. michael, thanks for being with us. and i want to ask you specifically about what the president of the european commission had to say. these were some strong words about russia today. the quote is this, the opening of new fronts and the use of regular russian forces is not acceptable and represents a grave transgression. we may see a situation where we reach the point of no return. from where you're standing, is he right that there is this point of no return here imminently ahead of us? >> i think we've already reached that point to be honest. i've been talking to ukrainian officials and civil society activists all day here in kiev. as far as they're concerned they're at a state of war with russia. in fact, a few european leaders have come pretty close to calling this an invasion. the swedish foreign minister

swe tweeted that we are seeing regular ukrainian forces fighting russian forces and there's a word for this. president obama is due in estonia to reassure our nato ally that the united states stands behind it. the president issued the most robust statements calling it is an undeclared war and on twitter referring to it as an invasion. that's the president of estonia. european leaders especially those on russia's periphery and those who border ukraine or certainly feel the might of the russian military and the threat posed by vladimir putin are seeing this as a definaltive act of war on european territory. i mean, russia already seized crimea and now they've sent over 1,000 soldiers into east ukraine and many are being killed and sent back in body bags to russia. the parents of those soldiers don't know where their sons have been buried. you know, the combat missions have notten d ebeen disclosed py

by russia. this is the definition of a dirty, undeclared war, absolutely. >> i wonder when you talk to ukrainian officials there they are obviously looking to europe, to the wrest, to the ums for support and we're hearing from administration officials here that this is a, quote, escalation, that it's a, quote, effort. what do they want from the u.s.? and why does it matter when we're talking about words here? >> well, look, i think it's very interesting, you know, ukrainian officials are being careful i think in publicly making requests such as for lethal weaponry and other things because they know if they do that, they're probably going to be hung out to dry. they're not going to get it. although it is interesting i should note that both poeland and romania the president of romania today issued a statement saying that the european union should increase sanctions and also now arm the ukrainian military. i spoke to two civil society activists today who told me something very interesting the

ukrainian military is almost 50% funded by private donations from civil society. people are raising money. they are sending food. they are buying defensive weaponry materials, flak jackets, night vision goggles, you name it, for their sons and daughters. the volunteers, the people who are joining up. if you drive into the airport from downtown kiev you see all kinds of billboards basically looking for recruits to the national guard, to the military, whatever. mr. putin has underestimated ukraine's willingness to resist and fight. he thought the people of east ukraine would be automatically pro-russian and rise up and join the separatist and indeed stump for an open russian invasion and annexation. that didn't happen. so i think he actually -- he's gone so far that, you know, to go back at this point it was almost -- it would almost be the same consequences as just carrying forward. and the real question is what is the end goal. and here you're going to get different answers. the so-called concept saying

russia not only has a land bridge to crimea but annexes territory nearby and creates a russian federation to the occupied territory in moldova. some ukrainians think that's too ambitious and it's not going to happen but it doesn't matter. what matters is conventional russian forces, elite airborne troops are now in east ukraine. ukrainian forces were coming out of being cheered but they look like they've just been through hell. this is a real war. there are talks about getting journalists embedded with the ukrainian military. those talks now seem to have been scuppered but the ukrainian authorities think it's simply too dangerous to send journalists to the east. this is a war. whatever the west chooses to call it, there's no question. >> yep, by any name. you are seeing it there on the ground. >> yes. >> thank you so much, michael weiss, with politico. appreciate it. isis and the crew sis in ukraine are two big problems for the president with no easy answers or obvious solutions.

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noticing now in part because of social media. let's bring in cnn commentariers mark lamott hill and ben ferguson together with us in new york for the first time. i want to ask both of you this question. i'll start with you, though, ben. do you agree with the president on that? let me guess. >> no, i don't. we're just finding out things are bad in the world because of social media. how ignore rant do you think the majority of the american people are? we've known the world has been a messy place long before social media. we had newspapers that reported it. we had people in other countries. we had things called the united nations, don't they talk about it when things are getting messy around the world. i think it shows a lack of a plan yet again by this administration on what they're trying to do. and they keep saying, well, we need to calm down. how much longer are we going to calm down ukraine? they're saying it's not an invasion. go talk to the people that are in ukraine and you tell me when you have troops rolling down your street with tanks if you

feel that's an invasion or not. >> i appreciate the opportunity to disagree with you in person on everything you just said. i think social media does change the landscape here. not for politicians. not for global had leaders but for everyday people who now have access to a lot more information. isis literally has decaptation videos going around. they have their own facebook page. hamas had the same thing and in a sense people have more access to information and people thing it's more dangerous and precarious than it was before. >> but the fact that the white house has more information that they didn't have before is naive and misleading. >> the white house has always had good information. that wasn't the president's point. the point was people are a little bit anxious and worried about what's going on because of the news access they have. >> do you think they are? do you think it's a run-of-the-mill -- >> i think people are sitting there seeing this and say how is it happening? >> is it a run-of-the-mill collection of international problems? >> to some extent we're at a really bad place. unusually bad timing with syria, with ukraine, with the isis

controversy, with gaza in the last two months, all of this is happening at once. i think it's unfair to say that the president doesn't have a plan. >> he said he didn't have a plan. look at isis. what president has ever walked out saying we don't have a plan on how to deal with isills yet but we're going to get one. you are the president of the united states of america. you should have a plan. this has been going on for two years in syria. isis did not just get created yesterday. >> isis was created because of the invasion of iraq. >> we caught the guy that started isis. >> and we completely disrupted the sectarian distribution of power allowed isis to foment and you can't plame isis on president obama. >> let me ask you about some of the i guess messaging in a way even just the tone. because this is important. i don't think anyone looks at what's going on in syria and says, oh, that's a very simple problem to solve. >> exactly. >> this is a very complicated problem, but here is my point.

we heard secretary hagel and the chairman of the joint chiefs say one thing pretty strong language. you need to deal with isis in syria. then we hear president obama tapping the brakes this week. >> thankfully. >> and we see this op-ed with secretary scary we kerry who is doing the same thing. >> there's a reality that isis is going to have to be dealt with. hold on. but you have the secretary of defense and hagel and others came out and saying i'm separating myself from this policy of the white house which is we don't know what we're going to do. we're telling you this is a group that has to be dealt with. it has to be dealt with whether we like it or not they're going to come and fight us at some point. trust them. >> no, they're not! >> that's the same thing you said about al qaeda and they came and fought us on 911. >> i never said that about al qaeda. >> many people said that including bill clinton who said i can't take him out. >> including george w. bush. no one thinks that isis doesn't need to be dealt with.

that's the easy part. the question is how does isis get dealt with? air strikes are not enough. you ultimately have to be on the ground. >> you have to be on the ground. >> i'm in shock you just said that of all people. i'm encouraged. can we get you a job at the white house? >> it doesn't mean we have to be on the ground. >> who is going to do it? >> that's why you fund rebels. >> you want to arm rebels now. >> i've always wanted to arm rebels, in syria, in iraq, i want to arm the kurds. i don't want to arm people but at the same time we need people on the ground doing this point. >> we are at this point. we'll revisit it in a moment but we do know the administration now is providing arms even they aren't publicly saying they are. rest your heels for a minute. we'll be right back with more from ben and mark. but how much would you be willing to pay if someone you loved was held hostage? for most of us the answer is anything, right? ahead you will see how a negotiator sets a price tag. you will learn if an expert believes the mother of an american hostage was right to

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ukraine and isis may be major fears abroad but at home there is a plague that kills americans every year. drug addiction. you'll hear the stories of grandmothers and sons addicted to drugs. how that affects families and what can be done to help them. that's coming up at the top of the hour. well, the white house always says we don't negotiate with terrorists. but that rule is put to the test when it comes to hostages held by islamic militants overseas. this week a journalist came home nearly two years after he was an subjected in syria. his family and the u.s. government say they did not pay to free him, but another country like qatar may have. with other americans still held overseas the debate isn't over about whether to pay ransom. karl penhaul looks at how it's done. >> the life of this american citizen, obama, depends on your next decision. >> reporter: it's a brutal

threat to kill journalist steven sotloff. a moment of terror. >> we've got a big footprint. >> reporter: kidnap and ransom specialist it's also a moment of hope what he views as an opening bid in a possible association. over more than a decade he said he's helped cut hostage deals with rebels and drug gangs in laten america as well as islamist radicals in iraq and africa. >> they are completely around the twist and actually very difficult to negotiate with. you may find you are dealing with someone who is totally inexperienced and out of their depth and are playing a game they think they are meant to be playing and then you get the hard professionals. >> reporter: isis say they killed another american reporter james foley in retaliation for u.s. bombing raids. but a month after foley was snatched in syria in 2012, his boss at the "global post" says isis demanded a ransom for more

than $130 million. a startling number to foley's employer. >> we thought that something in the range of $5 million was probably the right amount to pay for the ransom. >> reporter: while officially denied by the french and spanish governments, it is widely reported that both countries have paid ransoms in exchange to free their citizens but in the case of foley, negotiations quickly collapsed. and he doubted whether the isis negotiation was serious. tough as it sounds, he says kidnapping for ransom has become a global business. >> i don't want to diminish the shocking impact this has -- devastating impact this has on families but it's a bit like buying a house. you know, if somebody wants to sell a house and you're interested in buying it, there are asking ten times the going rate in that particular street you're not going to enter into a negotiation. >> reporter: on wednesday

sotloff's mother addressing baghadi by name. >> as a mother i ask your justice to be merciful and not punish my son for matters he has no control over. >> reporter: such an appeal he says is an excellent strategy. >> it's about talking. it's about keeping those lines of communication open. at all costs. it's about being calm. it's really time and time again reminding people that we're dealing with humans. >> reporter: a reminder that not only a ransom but also human lives are at stake. karl penhaul, cnn, london. when the stakes are so high saying no to a ransom demand is a painful choice but is it the right one or should we be willing to do anything to bring americans home? we'll be talking about that after the break. you can get a $1,000 turbocharged reward card with a new volkswagen turbo. so why are we so obsessed with turbo? because there's nothing more exhilarating than a powerful ride.

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see car insurance in a whole new light. liberty mutual insurance. the u.s. does not negotiate with terrorists except when it does. don't forget beau bergdahl freed by the taliban in exchange for five of their leaders detained at guantanamo bay, cuba. was that ransom or was it a defensible trade for a prisoner of war? ben ferguson and mark lamott hill joining me once again. do you see that in the same way, the be bergdaowe bergdahl situa versus steven sotloff who isis is threatening to kill in iraq

and syria? >> i think they are absolutely different. whenever someone is at war and they make a commitment to defending the nation we have to do everything to do to get them back. this is a case of returning prisoners as we draw down and out of a country. what we saw a swap. five for one was a little troublesome to many but ethically it's different. let me say it really quickly. with isis giving money to terrorist organizations is bad for two reasons. one because it keeps the cycle going of kidnapping because it makes it profitable. and we become an underwriter of al qaeda and isis whenever we do it. >> it's a nonnegotiable circumstance because as soon as you do -- >> where do you fall? >> i don't think you ever negotiate with terrorists. >> what about trading. >> the four to one is proof that it doesn't work. i mean, if it was one to one or something but what is it next time? is it five to one? and the other issue is this it makes american lives more valuable around the world and the reason why we've done such a good job of not being targeted

in general compared to other nations that do negotiate with terrorists because the theory was if you got an american citizen they'll probably come and try to kill you to get them back but they're not going to pay you for them, so when you start doing this, it makes an american life worth that much more whether it be a civilian, whether it be a guy in a uniform at this point i think isis thinks every american we get is valuable to us and if we can give them money, whether it be through qatar -- they don't care where the money comes from as long as they have an american to negotiate for. they don't care if it's any other nation in middle east paying the money it's we're now raising the money up there. >> we made a commitment in 2013 to not negotiate with terrorists. >> and you got to stick with it. >> only the united states and uk have held their end of the bargain. everyone else does it so there's still a market for it has to why europe is becoming a target. >> one of the reasons i feel safe is because i do know that -- my life is not worth that much because on the black market of terrorist because i'm

an american. i actually find security in that. if i'm from another country and they say, where are you from and they know that you're from a place that pays ransom there's much more likelihood i'll get taken. >> let's talk about this. what about other countries? so you have an american released, u.s. doesn't pay ransom but now folks are saying that qatar paid ransom, what difference does it make is my point? >> there's not much difference because isis understands the calculation. they don't care whether it comes from the u.s. or qatar. >> you're safe iying it's all t same. >> it's all the same. >> right now isis has about $2 billion, right? a lot of it from taking over mosul, some of it from antiqui y antiquities in syria. >> and banks in mosul. >> and also kidnapping. they are asking for $130 million -- >> it was seen as not genuine. >> if you go for $130 million,

what about 140, let's say you get 20, or 30 on or 15 or 15 or $5 million or $5 million for terrorists buying things on the black market is incredible. one of the things we have to come to terms with and this white house needs to acknowledge it isis is the most well-funded terrorist organization that this world has ever seen at this point in time. they have funding that al qaeda only could have dreamed of and it's a reality because they've taken over areas in places where they were able to get their hands on like you said billions of dollars in money. >> yeah. >> and al qaeda never dreamed of that type of cash. they were running on a shoestring budget. these guys have the ability to buy pretty much whatever they want on the black market. >> the worst thing you can do is offer them economic support. it's bad practice. and bad form but it's also dang ruls. >> before i let you go on this topic let's talk about the human element of this. if you are talking to a parent or if this is one of your brothers or sisters or your father or mother then what do

you say? >> here's the thing. that's the difference, if i'm captured and my family, i expect my family not to think logically. >> exactly. >> i expect the government to think logically. if my parents want to go rogue and get me back or if i have a child and go rogue i understand it because you're not in a logical place. >> would you go around and try to fund raise -- >> i don't think you can get enough money to fund raise for that. >> i would think i would get madonna to get me, angelina or someone like that. >> you have people with cash. one percenters over here. >> you don't make public policy from that stand point. >> don't make emotional decisions in that scenario. you have to stick to your guns, we do not negotiate with terrorists. >> ben and mark stay with us. imagine seeing a man grab a woman's stomach and tell her, don't lose too much weight. i like my women chubby. now, imagine, you're seeing that in the u.s. capitol between two senators. one senator says that is what happened to her.

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gillibrand tells in her new book "off the sidelines." in an excerpt she said an older male colleague told her, quote, good thing you're working out you wouldn't want to get porky. and on another occasion after she dropped 50 pounds one of her fellow members approached her and squeezed her stomach and said don't lose too much weight now, i like my girls chubby. gillibrand told people she wasn't even that offended. it was made by men in their 60s, 70s, and they had no clue that these are inappropriate to say to a woman who was pregnant or just had a baby. okay, it's 2014 here. i mean, what do you think, mark? >> it's -- >> welcome to the future. come on. >> part of it is that the senate is filled with really old guys and that's not to make an excuse for it but it's like an old frat house. it's an episode of "mad men." but women in jobs all around the

country experience it every single day no matter what industry. >> if you're going to go this big in your book, you got to go all the way and name the names! >> you can't name names. >> you can't write this stuff -- but part of me is, like, you write this and then you won't tell us who said it but you want me to read your book? if you're going to do this -- >> what if it's a partisan thing? >> i don't care. >> no, no. what if is your party. you want to lose senate seat or health care -- >> i'm totally fine with it. >> of course, you are. >> if a republican came out and said something like this, my thing is if you have the guts to write about it, have the guts to name names. >> i can almost gawrnty you it is bipartisan. i would say there are a couple of things going on. i do think it's generational, that's true. in a way the capitol is a time capsule. you go back in time. there's a certain chivalry that might come along with the 1950s and a sexism that comes along. but i would say it's maniacal,

right? there's a lot of people who have power. they have a lot of people around them telling them anything goes, you're so great and things pop out of people's mouths that have no -- >> but here's my thing, if she wants to stop it. it depends on the reason why she wrote it. is she writing it to sell a book or writing it to change it? if you want to change it, you need to come out and say who said it to you. >> that doesn't change anything. >> here's why. if you're a guy on capitol hill and all of a sudden this senator that comes out and says this in this way are you not going to sit back and go i'm sure going to watch what i say now because down the road it may come out that i said "x," "y," or "z." i think they would be careful. >> i think she has every right to name names, everybody that does it should be named. i don't fault her for not doing it but the bigger question -- >> she's not that upset about it. is part of it maybe that she's saying, hey, politics and let's admit it, it is very much a man's world -- >> yes. >> is she saying it's rough-and-tumble and i can play in it, hello, so maybe that's

really what shoils getting at. >> was she trying to inspire young girls to go to capitol hill and serve or was she writing the juicy stuff that she knew would sell the book and didn't have the guts to name names? >> she get harassment whether or not she has courage, but i think the conversation is why does the senate function this way. >> i don't know naming names would change things. >> i think it would. >> do you think that part of it, though, is that this is her making an appeal to women, let's talk about the politics behind this. >> yes. sure. >> i think so, too. it's the same thing hillary clinton does and the same thing that we'll see from elizabeth warren. i am a strong woman that has to navigate a messy gender environment, i think it unites women and gets them a lot of support. i don't mean to make it sound like it's cynical politics, i think she's doing the right thing. >> i think this gets down to the point it is. it's a smart political move. you have a lot of americans not in great shape.

a lot of americans are overweight and a lot of americans deal with weight issues their whole life. if you write this -- >> the porky lobby? >> yeah, how dare they treat her this way and how dare them say this and i like her for coming out and saying this even game, the weight issue? >> you're a guy, yes. if you're a girl, no, to be honest. >> you would never do it towards a woman. you know you wouldn't. >> i wouldn't do it if chris christie were nice. my announcement of chris christie, we have the right to ask him or anyone else, shallow or not. but to make fun of his weight, to mock him, to fat shame him is wrong. >> is it a health issue? >> that is a pretext for making fat jokes. >> yeah. that's a disclaimer for making fat jokes. >> exactly. i'm really worried about your health. >> chris christie on st. nig"sa night live" is not worried about his health.

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michael psalms, nfl dream is over for now. the first openly gay player drafted by an nfl team was cut earlier this afternoon. he was a long shot to make the team. he could still be picked by another squad besides the st. louis rams.

ben ferguson and mark lamont hill joining me once again. do you think it matters, do you think, ben, if he never plays another down in a regular season? >> to him it does. in the grand scheme of things -- >> is it enough that he was just drafted? >> it was enough that he was drafted because he got drafted and he got a lot of attention. at the end of the day i want sports to be about the player and the best player. i promise you jeff fisher was routing for him. you could tell. i think the organization was probably rooting for him. it was going to be good for them. they're selling a lot of jerseys. they were going to be watching the st. louis rams that never would have watched them before this year in tv ratings. but they decided he wasn't good enough to stay on their team and they made a football decision and they -- i applaud them for drafting him. at the end of the day it came down to his talent and ability. >> i think it did come down to a football position. he got beat out by a better guy. the fact that he was drafted so

low had to do with him being gay. >> seventh round. >> seventh round. hold on. we've had coaches offen the record and former coaches saud i would not draft him or have him because he would be a, quote, distract him. i think this particular situation might be purely football base but the fact that he won't get a chance across the teams. he's good enough for an nfl roster. >> anybody can get him. >> that's my issue, the distraction piece. >> i think there are some people that are going to look at his ability. there are a lot of really good guys. look at the guy taking his spot. undrafted. some people said he probably did get drafted because he was gay and it was going to be a great story for a team. there was lot of good players. >> third round and he went seventh. >> depends on who you talked to. most scouts said he was not going to go third round. he wasn't at the level and ultimately that's why he got dut today. >> i want to talk to you about the fashion police being on patrol this week in washington, d.c. it's really right for the pickings in washington sometime. we're not always the most

fashion forward crowd compared to other cities. but the president came out addressing reporters on thursday and he was wearing this tan suit. he got a lot of guff for this. twitter handles that were the suit people were making fun of it. >> wear a dark colored suit when you're a dude, simple. or go out for the all out seersucker. >> you want him to come out talking about domestic terrorism in seersucker? >> no, dark suit or summer one. >> was it fair? >> you. >> we've got others things to worry about. >> i love making fun of presidents, no matter who they are. because of the suit was bad -- >> six years ago you loved making fun of president. >> i think the suit was bad. it looks like he bought it six years ago, make fup of that. but the color of it is cool. most politicians can't dress, that's why they wear blue and black.

>> peter king, republican congressman, yesterday said it was a metaphor, he felt, for his message, that he didn't feel like it conveyed the seriousness of what the president was talking about. >> this is what i'll say. no matter what -- >> this is the one perk for him right now. at least he didn't look like mr. rogers or president carter with a cardigan, so he's doing just fine. >> or bobby jindal. >> he will never go down as wearing a sweater addressing the nation. >> he was a president. >> exactly. all of the above. >> that's what i'm saying. there was a time where presidents were more stylish and could get away with this. we had a string of presidents who could get away with this. >> what about the flip side? we've heard hillary clinton say -- and this is very true -- she felt so under scrutiny during the 2008 election for what she was wearing. now i think some women look at this and kind of take a little bit of perverse pleasure going, you know what, it's time the

tables got turned. >> that's right. sarah palin told me the say thing. they got scrutinized for every single thing they wore. i don't feel sorry for the president forgetting teased but it is petty. i would be more upset about the syrian policy than the suit he wore announcing the syrian poli policy. >> it was kind of like, he walked out, got a new suit on, different color, oh, and by the way, we don't have a plan yet on isis. >> maybe if i wear a tran suit they'll talk about that instead? >> do you think on messaging it's important though for politicians -- this may fall to women, not necessarily women, they tend to fall back on dark colored suits. do you think a politician should say, what am i conveying by what i am wearing? >> we need to change that. >> when you come out, everything you do when you're president of the united states of america is scrutinized. whether it's walking out and

talking about the beheading of an american wearing a tie? in the grand scheme of things, everything is managed when you're running for president. and everything you wear is managed when you're running for president. so when you are president -- >> i'm president and you can't get rid of me. i'm in my last two years of office, i can wear a tan suit. >> thank you so much to both of you. this was a very spirited and fun debate. i'm brianna keilar in new york. our special on the plague, deadly fix, starts right now. you are in the "cnn newsroom." i'm brianna keilar in new york. this hour we're focusing on our special series "deadly fix." first, this just in. the u.s. has conducted five new air strikes against isis militants near the mosul dam. the u.s. military says the strikes destroyed an isis fighting position