that's it for us. thanks for watching. "cnn tonight" hosted by don lem conn and alisyn cam rota starts now. you are looking at downtown new york, where in just three days we're going to mark the anniversary of al qaeda's attacks on september 11th. good evening, everyone. this is "cnn tonight." i'm don lemon. >> and i'm alisyn camerota. what incredible pictures you're showing us there, don. tonight america faces a new terror threat, as we know, from isis. more sophisticated and possibly

even more brutal than al qaeda. so what price is president obama willing to pay to defeat them? plus this, the shocking video of football player ray rice that's prompting some to call for a boycott of the nfl. ray rice lost his job with the ravens today after this video surfaced showing him punching out his fiance. this was back in february. so what took the league so long to suspend him? >> and meanwhile, another nba owner loses his team over a racially charged e-mail. but is this about color or the color of money? also, my exclusive interview with superstar pharrell williams, a man with a lot on his mind, including race in america. but let's begin here in downtown new york tonight. in just a few days, we're in the background of the september 11th memorial and ground zero. and as we prepare to celebrate the -- to remember the 2,753

people that were killed here by al qaeda 13 years ago this week, president obama is also using that anniversary to lay out his plan to battle the latest terror threat facing this country, and that's isis. and clearly, americans are paying attention. 90% in tonight's cnn/orc poll call isis a serious threat to the united states. 90%. and it's not just their brutality. it is their business-like approach it terror that is a concern here. cnn's stephanie elam has more. >> reporter: this is what we're up against. isis, the terrorist group. that's run like a well-oiled business. >> the way isis documents its operations shows that it is a different kind of terrorist organization. >> they're not just savvy. they're sophisticated. and they learn. >> reporter: watching this latest isis propaganda video is akin to taking in a hollywood action movie. but the action here is all too

real. and the isis pr machine is constantly making sure the world is aware. the imagery of brutal attacks and beheadings serving as beacons. >> it certainly raises the profile of the organization, and as a result brings more minute to the organization, brings more members to the organization, and brings more prestige to the organization. >> reporter: making the goal of all the publicity clear -- isis wants to show its dominance and recruit. >> isis is competing with other jihadist organizations. and by documenting its actions it wants to show the superiority that it has on the battlefield. >> isis wants to give the impression that it's winning. >> reporter: besides videos isis also produces massive company reports. this one is 410 pages. all in arabic. and all in an effort to bolster its power. >> the amount of information that they put out on the number of battles that they've won and

the territory they control and sort of their strategic vision of the caliphate, that's new and pretty clever. >> reporter: other slick graphic digital magazines are in english. posted on social media sites, the publications are designed to lull disenchanted young westerners to become jihadists. isis has been known to use these foreign fighters as suicide bombers. >> those youths, when they go to syria and iraq, they hone their fighting skills. and they will very likely bring those fighting skills back to their home countries after they're finished fighting. isis wants to market itself as the cool organization that is waging jihad at the moment, and it is using english and social media to propagate its message very effectively. >> reporter: while a dollar amount is unclear, isis has money. some of which comes from the oil fields it controls and from private donors. >> isis is a rich organization. and it gets its money from

extortion. also it gets its money by kidnapping and receiving ransom. >> reporter: while isis has a cabinet that runs the organization, with abu bakr al baghdadi acting as ceo and president, it also acts like a government, declaring itself a state. >> it has not only the responsibility to hold the territory that it's gained, and it's gained a ton of territory, and it's fighting on four different fronts right now at least. and that takes a lot of energy, a lot of resources, a lot of manpower, and a lot of money. >> reporter: power, money, and pr. stephanie elam, cnn, los angeles. >> all right. so let's talk about these different tactics of isis. let's bring in cnn military analyst, major general james "spider" marks. and also bob baer. he's a former cia operative. gentlemen, thanks so much for being here. bob, let's start with you. you just heard stephanie elam's piece about how isis is organized differently than any

other terrorist organization. they have this sophisticated pr arm. they're able to raise money more effectively than other terrorist organizations. so does that make them tougher to defeat? >> alisyn, absolutely. they have, for instance, encrypted communications which can't be broken by the national security agency. that in itself allows them to get around our best defenses in this country. the question is are they bringing these people in this country? can they get around police controls in this country? i would say yes. but more than that, they are effectively a state of nearly 20 million people. if you look at their area from aleppo all the way to mosul in the north. they've holding back the iraqi army fairly well. they've had some setbacks. but they have a lot of sophisticated equipment. they have a lot of people that know how to fight for them. but more than that they're attract adherents across europe

and some from the united states as we know. they're an organization much more effective and capable than al qaeda ever was. >> they've had some setbacks, but even though they have this sophisticated pr arm, when air strikes are coupled with the peshmerga it seems to push them back and in some cases wipe them out of the steefof the cities wd strongholds. >> what you're seeing is the combination of air power and ground power, which is ultimately the formula that's going to have to be used to defeat isis, as we heard the president say today. so frankly, air power by itself is necessary but not sufficient. ground power ultimately, some form of soldiers on the ground, whether they're united states or coalition soldiers, must be used. and as bob pointed out, this is a very well-trained, very well-organiz well-organized, very well-organized group. when you realize that the leadership of isis, primarily the military leadership of isis came from saddam hussein's military, they were aggrieved

from the start, they were never really deeply professional, but they were professional soldiers and they brought their skills with them. many of them spent time in jail following the 2003 invasion. so these are guys who in many cases have some -- they're aggrieved parties and they have scores they want to set sxl they're about the business of doing that. >> so bob, president obama's going to be addressing the american public on wednesday, and he gave a little preview of what he's going to be saying. and he basically talked about how his announcement on wednesday to the american public will not be that we're putting boots on the ground or this is going to be some sort of redo of the iraq war. let's listen to what the president says he'll be saying. >> this is not the equivalent of the iraq war. what this is is similar to the kinds of counterterrorism campaigns that we've been engaging in consistently over the last five, six, seven years. what i want people to understand, though, is over the course of months we are going to

be able to not just blunt the momentum of isil. we are going to systematically degrade their capabilities. we're going to shrink the territory that they control. and ultimately we're going to defeat them. >> so bob, you heard the president. this is going to be a continuation of the counterterrorism campaigns that we've been doing for the past five or six years. is that enough to defeat isis? >> well, i think to go back to what general marks said, he's absolutely right. it's more than isis we're fighting. we're fighting former iraqi army officers and enlisted. sunnis effectively that have been cut out of the political system in baghdad. unless we address the political problems in both syria and iraq, yes, we can degrade them. yes, the air force can take out all the armor and the rest. i have no doubt about it. and the drones. but we will not solve the problem unless there's a political solution. and in order for that to happen we need saudi arabia, we need the government in baghdad, and

we need iran to cooperate on this. we simply cannot be supporting a shia government in baghdad that's propped up by iran and you have the islamic revolutionary guard force that the iranian, you know, elite forces fighting in iraq and expect to win this. we need a political solution, and it's got to involve the sunnis. and i haven't heard the president address, that and we'll have to wait till wednesday to see if he will. >> general, should we read anything into -- is it significant that the president is doing this on the eve of the anniversary of the 9/11 attacks? he could have picked any day. he could have done it today. he could have done it tomorrow. he could have done it next week. should we read anything into that? >> yeah, don, what we should read into it is he should have done it about three months ago. i hate to answer you why question and say it's prophetic he's doing it on 9/11. i would hope that's not the case. i would hope that the president is saying quite sincerely i need to get my act together, i've got to make sure this is straight and i've got to make sure i articulate very clearly what it is we're trying to achieve.

and this is more than -- what he is stating really needs to be more than what he gave us in terms of a preview. what he gave us is a preview where four distinct military actions, to blunt, degrade, shrink, and defeat, when really what he needs to say is we need to have a strategy that addresses ungoverned space, what will america and western powers and peace-loving nations do in order to make sure we can focus in on these ungoverned spaces so things like this don't occur because ultimately they always do. >> hey, bob, last, you know, the president sounded more confident than we had heard in some of his recent speeches. he said we are going to do this. basically, he said make no mistake, we will defeat them. is there reason for that level of confidence? >> well, it's not confidence as so much that he's been put in a corner. i mean, isis came out of nowhere six months ago, and none of this was anticipated. so he was blindsided by the intelligence community.

he's had to catch up. isis is not going away quickly by itself. and so he's had it react to this and he's trying to get in front of the issue. he's got no choice. the american people are scared, and they should be. >> all right, gentlemen, so great to have your expertise, as always. spider marks, bob baer. we'll see what the president has to say on wednesday. thanks, guys. >> thank you. all right. next, killing in the name of islam. why isis is so successful getting its fighters, some of them born and raised here, to commit such brutal crimes. and can moderate muslims help to turn the tide against the extremists? also, the shocking video from tmz sports that spelled the end of ray rice's career with the ravens today. he was caught on camera knocking out his fiance. is it too late to charge him with a crime? judge mathis will be here to answer that.

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welcome back, everyone.

we're live tonight at new york's world trade center. as isis conducts its bloody rampage across parts of iraq and syria, it is doing so under the banner of islam, and its leader has proclaimed himself caliph, demanding leejs from all muslims around the world. so let's talk about this with congressman keith ellison. he's a democrat of minnesota. and also reza aslan is a professor at the university of california riverside and the author of "zealot: the life and times of jesus of nazareth." thank you both of you for joining us tonight. congressman, i want to start with you. your entire term as a congressman the united states has been struggling against enemies in the middle east, often islamic radicals. how do you feel about ice sxis the isis and their brand of islam? >> well, i think the only thing islamic about isis is its name. they do things that are fundamentally unislamic, killing innocent people, lying, deceiving people, burning crops crops, abusing innocent people, abusing minorities, religious minorities. all that is antithetical to what

islam stands for. and so i think they're exploiting religion in order to recruit and so we've got to be very, very effective at demonstrating that what isis stands for is not islam but a very ugly perversion which must be rejected and confronted. >> before we move on here, i want to know, what do you expect to hear from the president later this week and how should he handle this? >> well, you know, i think the president has been very clear. isis has been exploiting grievance of the sunni population in iraq, and the goal has got to be to have an inclusive government so that the sunni population feels that it is participating in the governance of iraq, that they're not subjected to abuse and state violence like they were under nuri al maliki, and that they're cut into oil profits and the benefits of the country. i think that's the real goal. and that actually, in my view,

don, is related to the problem here because as isis has tried to exploit grievance in iraq they try to exploit grievance outside of iraq by trying to go to muslims who don't know much about islam and say, hey, you know, join us because we'll -- you can stand for the faith if you're part of what we're doing in both our lives. >> i want to get reza. what's your response to this? how should the president handle this, handle ice snis. >> i think from what we understand about what the president's going to say the threefold structure of his plan of attack is the right one. number one, you do have to respond militarily to isis soldiers and fighters. these guys are fighting a war of the imagination, a war that they think is happening between the forces of good and evil. there is no negotiation. there's no diplomacy. there's nothing to talk about with these guys. they have to be destroyed. but the congressman is absolutely right. what makes isis so powerful and potent is that they have managed to use grievances that a lot of iraqis have, that a lot of

syrians have, frankly that a lot of muslims around the world have had to draw people to their cause. and unless those grievances can be addressed, the appeal of a group like isis isn't going to work. and then finally of course you've got to deal with the mess in syria eventually. >> you know this. both of you know that -- you're not strangers to the argument that islam is a violent religion. i want you to listen to what bill maher tweeted in his response to the recent isis beheading videos. here's what he says. he says, "isis, one of thousands of islamic militant groups," addressing "the new york times," beheads another. but by all means let's keep pretending all religions are alike. what's your response to that? >> well, islam isn't a violent religion or a peaceful religion. it's just a religion. and like all religions it is absolutely dependent on the interpretation of whomever follows it. >> but i think it's interesting you say it's not a peaceful religion because i think most muslims will say it's a peaceful religion.

>> i completely understand why most people of faith regardless of the faith think the radicals and extremists within their faith are not really jews, are not really christians, are not really muslims. but the fact of the matter is a muslim is whoever says he's a muslim. a jew is whoever says he's a jew. the problem, however, is when we take the actions of an infinitesimal group and make it somehow predictive of the actions of everyone else, 1.6 billion muslims in this case, that's when the argument becomes completely strained and unbelievable. but the fact of the matter is if you're a violent, war-mongering person you can find justification in any scripture. if you're a peaceful, pluralistic person, you can find justification for your views in the exact same scriptures. >> congressman, what do you make of what bill maher tweeted? >> well, you know, i think that it's not just religion, it goes beyond that. look, stalin was an atheist, and he found a way to kill people to advance his ideology.

pol pot the same way. the fact is whenever you have an ideology, whether it's secular or religious, and you're willing to kill and murder other people to impose it on them, you're dangerous and you're a problem. and so i think that, you know, i think bill maher certainly is an entertaining guy and i think he brings a lot to the public debate but there's no doubt that he has a certain perspective on religion. i just think that it's broader than religion. i think it has to do with ideology and those who are willing to kill to impose it on other people. >> is the burden on other muslim nations and modern muslims to reject ice sxis join tsis and j against ice snis is that what's happening? >> the voices of rejection across the muslim world is deafening. if anybody thinks muslims are not denouncing isis do a google search and that should answer your question. the larger point, however, is nation states. muslim majority nation states like turkey, like qatar, like

kuwait, who -- and saudi arabia who for reasons of their own national security interests have not done enough to combat extremist groups like isis because they feel in one way or another that these groups promote their interests in some way, that's got to change. that's not a religious thing. it's just what nation states do. >> how do you do that? >> to remind them that these groups are as dangerous to them as anyone else. >> i was going to say, let's not forget that this -- isis sort of emerges out of syria, which is a failed state, and there is this proxy war going on between different sects of islam there. and we've got to address the problem in syria sooner or later. we've got to come as an international community to try to bring a cessation of violence there because that's one of the problems with these failed states, whether it's syria, somalia, or anywhere, it allows

real bad things to germinate. and that political crisis has got to be solved in order to squeeze on isis as well. i think some of those states thought their interests might have been vindicated by supporting certain elements. now it's clear that is a frankenstein monster. >> congressman, thank you very much. reza aslan, thank you very much. >> thanks, don. the baltimore ravens fire running back -- you're quite welcome. thanks again. fire running back ray rice after the release of a video from tmz sports showing him punching and knocking out a woman who is now his wife. is he paying enough of a price? this is charlie. his long day of doing it himself starts with back pain... and a choice. take 4 advil in a day or just 2 aleve for all day relief. honey, you did it! baby laughs! [ male announcer ] over time, you've come to realize... [ starter ] ready! [ starting gun goes off ] [ male announcer ] it's less of a race...

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the baltimore ravens fired running back ray rice today after a shocking video surfaced from tmz sports. months after we first learned that rice had apparently attacked his fiance, the entire assault came to light on video today. we're going to show it to you so you can see the full extent of the violence and the aftermath, though it is pretty sickening to watch. it shows rice punching janay palmer, then his fiance, now his

wife. he punched her, as you can see right there. this was in an elevator. this happened back in february. he knocked her out cold. then instead of getting help, he dragged her unconscious body into a hotel lobby. the white house released a statement tonight saying the president is the father of two daughters and like any american he believes that domestic violence is contemptible and unacceptable in a civilized society. hitting a woman is not something a real man does and that's true whether or not an act of violence happens in the public eye or, far too often, behind closed doors. stopping domestic violence is something that's bigger than football and all of us have a responsibility to put a stop to it. so how do we do it? we're joined by judge greg mathis, host of "judge mathis" now in its 16th season. judge, great to have you here. >> thanks for having me. >> now that the full picture has come to light of what happened inside that elevator, can't police charge him with a crime and can't he get some sort of jail sentence? >> unfortunately, state police

cannot. the only way i can see that happening is if they feel that that is a violation of the deferred sentence that he received. and i'm not sure how they could do that. i haven't seen the sentence. but he could be prosecuted on the federal level if they could find a nexus. >> but you're saying that state police cannot charge him because he already agreed to this diversionary program, whereby what? he takes some anger management classes instead of going to jail? >> that's my understanding of it. and i think it may be a probationary period or community service of some sort. but yeah, it's been adjudicated. it's been adjudicated. >> but it hasn't really been adjudicated because he basically -- he doesn't ever have to serve any jail time. it gets expunged from his record if for a year he goes to these classes. it seems like less than a slap on the wrist for what we've now seen in this video. >> yeah. now that we've seen him engage in such a horrendous act.

i would think the prosecutors may have had access to that tape if they had access to the earlier portion of the tape, why wouldn't they have had all of the tape? and had they seen this, i would hate that they would have allowed him to escape with such a slap on the wrist. >> how do you explain it? because look, if prosecutors are doing their job, they had to have seen that whole tape. what we in the public saw before today was something happened in that elevator because he was dragging her lifeless body out of the elevator. in fact, maybe we can see the aftermath of this. again, he treats her like a sack of potatoes. first he punches her. then she's lying, as you can see, in the elevator. he's basically kicking her, yanking her, tugging her. he's not trying to help her. he's not trying to revive her. he's not panicking. he's not going for help. this shows so much more contempt. >> yeah. and he could have carried her. he carries 300 pounds of weights

every day in the gym. >> exactly. >> he could have picked her up for sure. >> so how could prosecutors not have -- why do you think prosecutors didn't try to prosecute him for assault? >> yeah. well, one, i'm told that she did not want to cooperate. however, you don't need the cooperation of a woman in a domestic violence dispute in most states. you can use the evidence that you have. sometimes it's the evidence that the police might observe when they arrive on the scene. they observe something. in this case they had evidence such as the tape. and that could have been used. so i don't know if this was celebrity justice or not. maybe it's the same type of celebrity justice that some of our starlets have received in hollywood. we've seen some other athletes receive celebrity justice. >> it must be. because we often hear, well, the woman didn't press charges. but particularly when you have a videotape like this, that's all you need, i would think. here's what ray rice had to say about this whole -- he's now acting more contrite than we saw him on that video. and he is talking about how he

will have to explain himself in the future to his daughter. >> what happened that night was something that should have never happened. and you know, like i said, i have to pay for that for the rest of my life because my daughter is very intelligent, you know, and she's going to want to know what happened because she's going to press google one day. and just how fast this message is going to go worldwide, that's how fast my daughter's going to be able to pick up the phone and google her father's name and the first thing that's going to come up is not how many touchdowns i scored. it's going to come up about what happened. >> so judge, how does he explain this to his daughter? >> well, he must tell her that he had an issue mentally, quite frankly. that's the best he could explain it to her. and quite frankly, i believe many men who are engaged in domestic violence and violence at all have some mental problems. in fact, nearly 1/3 of all prisoners who engage in violence have some history of mental problems. whether it's bipolar disorder,

defiance disorder, adhd. a lot of this is mental. mental illness. and in this case i don't know whether it's that or whether it's the culture of violence that he grew up in. the misogynist, chauvinistic environment that we see every day, we hear in our rap music, we see in appalachia. it's all drug and alcohol and mentally and culturally induced. so hopefully he can make some sense of it telling his daughter that. >> if he was in your courtroom would you have sentenced him to jail? >> yeah, i would. after having seen the video, yes. but i'm a judge of second chances. you have to take your punishment first and then i'll help you out. >> judge, stick around. when we come back we'll explore how the nfl's handled ray rice and where they've gone wrong.

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welcome back, everyone. in the wake of star running back ray rice's indefinite suspension from the nfl, many are wondering just what the league knew and when the league knew it. joining us now is van jones, host of "crossfire," also mel rob, cnn commentator and legal analyst, marc lamont hill, a

senior political commentator, and judge greg mathis is back with us as well. good to have all of you. van, i'm going to start with you. is anything short of a ban for life acceptable at this point? >> you know, it's probably not. i think that in these situations you've got two things you're trying to do. one is you want to make sure the person has a chance to rehabilitate themselves. you want to make sure the person has a second chance. but you also need to send a clear signal and make sure that there's a reasonable punishment. it wasn't only the blow. it was the total contempt and lack of any demonstrable concern after the blow that i think really takes him outside of any kind of category of somebody you want to see back on the football field and representing the league. >> oh, my gosh. i can't even watch that video. when i see it on the monitor, i turn away. it is horrific to watch, mel. i'm sure you will agree. and this woman is getting hit -- actually brutally assaulted on camera. but we know that she -- that janay palmer was rice's fiance then when that assault happened.

but then she went on to marry him. does she have a responsibility in this case? is it battered woman's syndrome, as many say? >> you know, i think we have a responsibility, don. it's a valid question a lot of people are asking it. but let's set the record straight. all eyes should be on ray rice, not on janay. she's a freaking victim here. and when it comes to domestic violence all too often not only does society blame the victim but she blames herself. and there's lots of reasons why janay might have walked back on how serious this was. for example, she loves him. secondly, she's probably worried about the repercussions. third, she probably feels on some level, because this is clearly not a healthy relationship, that she is to blame, don. >> yeah. i agree with 90% of that. the only thing i would disagree with -- >> go ahead, marc. >> the only thing i would

disagree is the idea -- mel's right. it should not be on her. but i don't think all eyes should be on ray rice here. i think eyes should also be on the ravens and they should also be on the nfl. because when that press conference -- >> the league. >> yeah. because when that press conference came out and they had her sit there and apologize for the role that she played in this they were also blaming the victim. when the nfl made a decision to either not look at a tape, which i don't believe, but if they made a decision to not look at a tape and still dole out this punishment it's irresponsible. and if they looked at the tape it's dishonest and irresponsible, to look at that tape and conclude that this only warranted a two-game suspension despite what they've done more recently. now they're caving to pressure, not principle. i think there's a lot of blame to go around but none of it should go to her. >> don, we have a little bit of breaking news here about that very thing because harvey levin, he's the founder of tmz, that's who obtained this elevator video, and they are just announcing tonight that tomorrow morning they say that they're going to release a bombshell. they claim that they have evidence that the nfl did know

about this elevator video and that they did see this elevator video. judge mathis, i want to bring you in. if that's true, what happens to roger goodell, the commissioner of the nfl? >> well, if he knew of it, i think that he's part of this -- what someone --? right refer to as a cover-up, or trying to minimize the damage that was done both to this woman and that we know that the nfl would need to have addressed, covering it up for the benefit of the nfl, for the benefit of one of his players. but in addition to that, we're talking about responsibility. i haven't heard much responsibility attributed to the prosecutor in this case and the court. after all, he received a smack on the wrist. and did they see the video? or is it enough of -- evidence that what they did see should have resulted in more harsh punishment rather than this smack on the wrist plea bargain? >> well, here's what they said.

the league said. the league said -- i want to get the league's statement here because i think it's important since we're saying tmz is going to say the league knew about this. they say "we requested from law enforcement any and all information about the incident including the video from inside the elevator. that video was not made available to us and no one in our office has seen it until today." so if indeed this comes out, again, it is a bombshell, as alisyn said, as harvey levin is going to say tomorrow, but what might be the evidence that they saw it? is it evidence from law enforcement? i mean, judge, what can make a difference in this particular instance? >> well, if you have testimony from an insider from the nfl office, someone else in the league, perhaps some communications that has been established through e-mail. we know how e-mails are floating around these days establishing culpability. so those instances. but in terms of the justice system, once again, making reference to their responsibility, their duty, if

they've seen it, if they saw the video and failed to act on it in an appropriate manner, they should be held accountable as well. >> mark, what happens to the league, though? if this is indeed true. that's going to -- that's for the league. i mean, how can you -- if they say they didn't see it and there's evidence that they did see it, this is not good news for the league. i don't know how they would handle that. how they'd recover from it. >> well, recovering would be difficult. this would be a major crisis. this would make donald sterling look like small potatoes. because in donald sterling's case you had a rogue actor who was being policed by a league that we still have a fundamental sense of trust in. but if the people who are supposed to be policing the bad guys, in this case the nfl, the owners, and of course the commissioner are also bad actors, they're also acting in bad faith and they also cannot be trusted, then we have no faith in the league itself. roger goodell should resign at 9:01 tomorrow morning. i thought that before i heard this and before alisyn gave this breaking news bit, i said i

didn't believe it. it smelled bad all day. it's obvious that the nfl has been lying about this. i guarantee you there's going to be some written communication that proves that they saw the video. and roger goodell must resign. and the nfl must spend the next god knows how many years trying recover a whole lot of damage. >> you know what's interesting, van, is that if the nfl says, well, we didn't see it, so -- let me be very clear that harvey levin says they're going to release nfl tomorrow morning that the nfl knew about this video. so if the nfl and roger goodell sort of were willfully blind to demanding to see this video, does that change anything? >> well, i think we have to see what they have tomorrow. but here's the reality. they were very strong. they said they did not see it, they had no access to it. if it turns out that's not true, this is a nuclear bombshell. this is going to be -- heads will be rolling. we're speculating right now about tomorrow. here's what we ought to speculate about. 62% of all african-american women who are killed are killed by someone they know.

92% of the time in those situations it is a boyfriend, a husband, or an ex-lover of some kind. so this is a very serious problem. it goes beyond just this one incident. this is a very serious problem. >> yeah. >> for women. for women of color. and we've got to make sure even as we try to figure out what we don't know. what we do know is this has to be taken much more seriously. >> yeah. and i think it really does -- >> judge, van, mel, marc, thank you very much. we've got to run. i appreciate it. i'm sorry. we didn't even get to our other story. we talked about the nfl. we didn't even get to the nba. so there's a lot to talk about. thank you all. you know, it is fashion week right here in new york, which means glamour, celebrity, and style. and when the whole world claps along and knows the lyrics to your tune, you should be the one who is happy. megastar pharrell joins me next. exclusively. talking about everything from his fashion line to the events in ferguson, missouri. we'll be back.

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pharrell has some provocative things to say about race. we're going to get reaction to

all of that in our next hour. but i want to tell you, i'm here in new york's world trade center rising from really the rubble of ground zero. 13 years after the september 11th attacks. and a big part of the revival here in downtown new york is the fashion industry. and pharrell williams is making his mark in the business just like he has in music. i spoke with him not far from here on wall street during fashion week, and he had a lot on his mind, including race in america. >> good to see all of you. thank you for joining me. thank you. thank you. thank you. thank you. you guys are in a big project together, right? with g star. we're going to talk about all of that and get to the important things. we're talking about consciousness here. >> okay. >> but we're in the middle of new york city. it's fashion week. you've got this big fashion, new fashion line coming out. but again, i want to talk to you about consciousness. i know that you are socially conscious. i don't know if i would call you political, but you're definitely outspoken. >> yeah, i don't like -- i'm not into politics. i have opinions. >> what did you think of ferguson and what you saw going down there? >> don, don, don.

what did i think of ferguson? >> yeah. >> i'm disappointed. >> because? >> i'm disappointed in the way that like it was handled from a -- from the government side. i think that officer should be punished because that was excessive force. that was excessive force. you know, all those shots, where those shots were. the idea that that child laid on the ground -- he's a child. i know he's 6'2", 6'3", something like that, but he's a child. okay? he was laying on the ground for hours. that kid didn't ask to get killed. and so i feel like that officer should be punished. but then like at the same time like we've got start looking at ourselves too because we are feeling hunted and we need to be able to avoid these things. and sometimes it's unavoidable. >> did you see this whole -- there's a whole facebook

campaign about -- you're a jean designer. about pulling up your pants. don't give the man one more thing to go after you. >> who is the man? who is the man to tell me how i can wear my pants? can't nobody tell me how i can wear my pants. i'm a human being. that's the thing. there are so many issues that keep being lump summed in the same issues. wearing your jeans on your butt or below your waistline has nothing to do with being black. do you know how many white kids do that? >> justin bieber. they all do it. >> okay. so then that's not a black or white thing. hoodies are not a black or white thing. it's an excuse. so in certain places yeah, we're being hunted. but there are good policemen and there are bad policemen, and there are good kids and there are bad kids. regardless to what that child was, he did not deserve to be shot down like that. >> what do you mean? how do you avoid that? >> when they told him to get out of the road, he probably should have got out of the road. i wouldn't have been in the road to begin with, though.

but look, let me make it very clear because people like to sound bite in this day and age, right? this is the day and age of sound biting. i love my culture. but i don't want -- i don't want my culture to want nothing from nobody else. i think we can do what we need to do ourselves, and the only thing is i was disappointed that like while we had so much peaceful protesting going on what the media chose to cover most of all and highlight was the random few people that threw molotov cocktails, the random people that had guns on them, the random incidents where -- not random really, actually. motivated but like some of the rioting that was going on and some of the looting of the stores. and the looting of the stores in our own neighborhoods, i'm not telling you to do it nowhere else, but damn, why are you doing it in your own neighborhood? i didn't get that neither. >> the cameras are drawn to where the action is. and i completely agree with you. that's why we also focused on volunteers and people who were

doing good things. >> yeah, but we've got to spend more time on the people that were doing -- that was non-violent like protesting, which is allowed in this country. >> agreed. >> we didn't spend enough time on that. that's why i feel like -- that's where i feel like the president needs to come down. >> i was going to ask you, do you -- >> i think he needs to come down there. because when your parents come in the room, whether it's you or your cousin that knocked the vase down, both of you sit up at attention and everybody, as my dad would say, tighten up. >> so even now, after it's been a few weeks, you still think he should go down there? >> this is a deeper laceration in this country. if you think that this is going to blow over, this is going to be the longest hangover in race relations ever. want to know why? because we thought we had gotten so far but now there are certain people that are like man, they shouldn't put a tape out of him being in the store, this, that, and the other, that ain't got nothing to do with the crime. you're absolutely right. but i come from a black family that like my grandma would have said but let me see that other tape too. and you would get a beating for

that. because no stones are left unturned. no ts are not crossed. no is are not dotted. that's the kind of pride that we have in our culture that doesn't get enough light on television. because if you ask the right person, if you ask the right person, or like bill cosby, because i rock with bill. >> i love bill. >> bill is really smart. and people have opinions on bill. but bill got a lot of money. he got more money than everybody. >> so as you said, this is the era of the sound bite, where people take one sound bite out of context and -- >> they do. >> i'm trying to explain. you said to oprah that the new black didn't -- correct me if i'm wrong. that you didn't rely on pigmentation or blame pigmentation, it was about the expansion of your mind. >> yes. and we also don't rely on other people we're going to do it ourselves. >> you got a lot of criticism for that. >> i did. >> do you care? >> i'm black, man. my dad is -- my dad is pretty dark skinned. my grandma was pretty brown

skinned. you know? i'm not confused about what i am and what i stand for. >> pharrell had some provocative things, as you heard, to say about race. we're going to get reaction to that in our next hour. we're also going to have a lot more from our exclusive interview including what he is doing to save the planet. that's coming up. you don't want to miss it. this is kathleen. setting up the perfect wedding day begins with arthritis pain and two pills. afternoon arrives and feeling good, but her knee pain returns... that's two more pills. the evening's event brings laughter, joy, and more pain... when jamie says... what's that like six pills today? yeah... i can take 2 aleve for all day relief. really, and... and that's it. this is kathleen... for my arthritis pain, i now choose aleve. get all day arthritis pain relief with an easy-open cap.

president obama is facing huge challenges at home and around the world. and he's also facing criticism for what washington likes to call optics. listen to how the president explained his bad optics to nbc's chuck todd on sunday. >> the part of this job is also the theater of it. a part of it is, you know, how are you -- how are you -- >> you hate it. >> well, it's not something that always comes naturally to me. >> really? the president known for his stagecraft doesn't do it well? don and i will explore that, next. it is 11:00 p.m. on the east coast. this is "cnn tonight." i'm don lemon. i'm live at new york's world trade center where this week we remember the victims of