♪ ♪ >> announcer: this is "new day," with chris cuomo, kate boldaun and michaela perrera. >> welcome to "new day," it is friday, september 12th, 6:00 in the east. michaela and i are under the weather. >> she's just feeling a little ill, she's at home resting. >> we have breaking news for you -- the manhunt for a vicious school shooter over in ohio. the man is tj lane. he's now back in custody this morning after a brazen escape nearly six hours they had to look to find this guy. you remember him. infamously flaunting his crimes, wearing a shirt that read killer. smiling when he was sentenced. lane is serving three life sentences for shooting spree at his high school in chardon, ohio, in 2012 left three students dead. cnn ted rollins is following the story. >> they got lucky they found

him, ted. >> they set up a perimeter and i guess they were lucky, they found out he had escaped in short order and set the perimeter, chris, there are still a lot of questions. first of all, how did tj lane get out? and second, is this the right facility for him? a massive statewide manhunt overnight after three convicts escaped the allen oakwood correctional institution in ohio, including notorious killer, tj lane. >> he did scale our perimeter fence and again, this is an ongoing investigation. >> one inmate was quickly apprehended while lane was on the run for nearly six hours. he was eventually cornered just 100 yards away from the prison where he escaped. and taken back into custody without incident. >> i personally saw him, he never said anything at all. >> lane killed three students in 2012 at the age of 17. by opening fire at chardon high school wearing a t-shirt that

said "killer." at his sentencing where he received three life sentences, he caused outrage by wearing another "killer" t-shirt and smiling. at the scene of lane's crimes, classes were canceled this morning. the school superintendant saying support services would be offered. extra patrols were offered to the families of lane's victims. >> we immediately contacted the victims' families of the charredon school shooting, we worked closely with the state, federal and local law enforcement to insure the safety of our county residents. >> though the facility where lane is being held is not a maximum-security prison, a fact that will be reviewed in light of the escape according to the warden, the warden was quick to defend the prison and emphasize lane's recapture. >> obviously i'm not happy that it's happened. i mean, no warden in my position would like something like this to happen. but the facts are, i'm happy to announce that we have mr. lane back in our custody.

>> and chris, it goes without saying that people in chardon were not happy that this happened, either. however, i'm sure they're breathing a sigh of relief that he's back in custody. chris? >> probably going to ask some question as to what the right qualifications for him as a prisoner. ted thank you very much for bringing us up to date. we turn to the battle against isis. cnn learned that u.s. military planes are currently flying over syria. surveillance flights over syria, looking for potential isis targets inside that country. all of this as we learn that the terror group may be much larger than previously thought. secretary of state john kerry gets more arab allies to sign on, so many developments in this ongoing struggle. joe johns joins us from the white house with details on all of this. it's really interesting and frightening to understand that the numbers are far bigger of the isis militants than we thought, joe.

>> it certainly is, michaela. and you know, this sounds like a war, a little more intel on why they say they're not kaugle it that. a source telling cnn the administration does not want to elevate the international status of isis any more than has already occurred and that's why they say they're not calling it a war. this morning, u.s. surveillance flights over syria are under way. the military now developing potential targets for future air strikes against isis militants. a u.s. official has told cnn. this, as cnn learned the c.i.a.'s estimate of the size of isis doubles, between 20,000 and 30,000 fighters. and the number of westerners in their ranks, up to 2,000, including about a dozen americans. secretary of state john kerry in the middle east, building a coalition, nine arab nations signing on in the battle against isis. saudi arabia agreeing to train

anti isis fighters, but none of the nations expected to participate in military strikes. >> i think that's the wrong terminology. >> in an interview with cnn, kerry took issue with this action being called a war. >> what we are doing is engaging in a very significant counterterrorism operation. and it's going to go on for some period of time. if somebody wants to think about it as being a war with isil, they can do so. but the fact is, it's a major counterterrorism operation that will have many different moving parts. >> moving parts including money to arm syrian rebels to fight isis. >> i have deep concerns about us investing taxpayers' dollars, $500 million to a group of rebels we're not sure how it will be used to our benefit. >> but many parts of the president's plan receiving skepticism on capitol hill. >> and that 16 is not a strategy. and air strikes alone will not accomplish what we're trying to accomplish.

>> with one house republican and former air force surveillance pilot in iraq predicting a long slog. >> i think we're looking at a multi-year war in front of us and i hope the american people are patient for it. anything short of destroying this group are going to lead to many problems in the future. >> congressional force authorization debates are often agonizing theater for the party in control of the white house. without it, some are saying the white house is running the risk of being accused of acting outside the law. michaela? >> joe johns with all of the latest. we'll be following it further now with chris. >> let's try to figure out what this means practically on the ground as the operations begin. let's bring in retired air force colonel cedric layton. you are a strategic war analyst so help me understand something -- how is this not war? what we're about to do, and have already started doing, against this group? >> well, chris, good morning. it's a really hard to define it as not being a war.

because for example, take a look at korea. we don't talk about the korean police action, we talk about the korean war back in the early 1950s. so what you're looking at here is a form of conflict. the difference is is that counterterrorism operations used to be done completely in the shadows. but in recent years, especially under this administration, what we've decided to do as a nation, or at least the administration has decided to do is to bring these counterterrorism operations to the forefront and publicize them more than was the case in the past. >> this is a big headline, because the reason for battle fatigue among united states citizens isn't because they're afraid to fight or afraid to sacrifice, nobody has down it the way the u.s. has in the past. they don't trust what they've been told in the past. this goes to the heart of it. what's your take, colonel? is he saying this isn't a war because he doesn't want to embolden isis and make them feel special? or is this about the

administration being careful about their position, vis-a-vis, the constitution and congress. if they call it war too much, that means they do need more approval than they wish to seek right now? >> i think it's both, actually. because secretary kerry has a foreign audience. he has all of the people that he's trying to bring into his coalition, all the arab nations that joe johns talked about in his report. you have that on the one side. on the other side, you have the congressional piece, and what they're afraid of is triggering the war powers resolution. so when that happens, if there is a war powers resolution or one of the other things that congress has not been called on to do in recent years -- that is, to actually declare war -- we are incredibly reluctant to do that and both the bush administration and the obama administration have been incredibly reluctant to go in and call these things what they are. and they are wars. especially if you're on the receiving end of u.s. air power and u.s. air strikes. >> we've been advising people from the beginning that when you start keeping your eye on your congress, you should be pushing them to vote. if you're going to talk about it

and they have opinions about whether it's right or wrong, the constitution makes it clear, they should be declaring war and they should be voting on it. let's talk about the immediate action -- surveillance is going on, colonel. this is your strong suit. what are they doing? how hard will it be to identify targets? >> well it's going to be somewhat difficult. the advantage that surveillance flights have, chris, they can operate very well in open spaces. for example you look at the open desert that exists in part of northern syria and northern iraq. that's great for surveillance flights, it's harder to camouflage yourself in those areas if you're a target of those surveillance flights. but it is not impossible. so what is going to happen is we're going to be doing a lot of surveillance flights, a lot more than has previously been the case. what they're going to try to do is to figure out exactly how isis works. not only where they are, but who is working with whom. how they're doing it, and why they're doing it. and then with that idea, they will develop a targeting

package. and then those targeting packages will be what is used to actually affect the air strikes that will go forward if they do go forward in syria. and the same is true of course with iraq. technically, it makes no difference where you're doing these kinds of things. but that is exactly what will happen. they will use surveillance to gather intelligence, to find out what isis is up to. and they will do so in a very thorough way. >> it's interesting, they're saying they'll use the surveillance to figure out how many people they're fighting against. no small irony, that when the administration wanted isis to be a jv player, they put the numbers very low. now that they're taking all this action and want americans with them, they're saying it may be twice the size as they thought before. hopefully they'll get their information right so the ground war goes the right way. colonel cedric leighton, thank you very much. >> thanks for having me. a lot of news this morning, back to you, mick.

>> breaking news, oscar pistorius has been found guilty of culpable homicide. a judge in south africa ruling he unintentionally, but illegally killed his girlfriend, reeva steenkamp. he was found not guilty of premeditated murder. the verdict, sending shock waves throughout the courtroom. the country of south africa and beyond. want to go straight to cnn's robin kurnow outside the courthouse in pretoria to give us reaction. robin? >> hi there, well yes, we were inside the courtroom as usual. it was hot, stuffy, claustrophobic, as usual, silence as the judge was giving that verdict. no obvious reaction, no cry out of surprise from anyone in the gallery or from oscar pistorius when she found him guilty of culpable homicide. it was only after the judge left the room, michaela, that some of reeva steenkamp's friends, a

cousin, cried. gentle tears, there wasn't a lot of obvious emotion, oscar pistorius and his family sort of hovered around, unclear what to do next. what then happened was oscar pistorius was taken by south african police down into the cells of the building behind me. this is while the judge decides whether or not to revoke his bail, or whether to extend his bail to a sentencing hearing that will be in the next few weeks or months. so it's not over yet. and we're expecting to know whether or not he will be given bail in the next half an hour to an hour. we'll update you on that when we get it. >> we will go back to you in south africa when that information becomes available. thank you so much. obviously something we're going to wait to see and find out. we'll be talking about it with our legal minds here. another story important to us -- a new report says nfl commissioner roger goodell knew about ray rice's elevator knockout punch months before he says he did. all of this as the ravens play their first game since this new

tape surfaced. might not believe some of the people who were wearing ray rice jerseys. (vo) get ready!

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rice case. several sources telling espn that ray rice admitted to nfl commissioner roger goodell back in june that he punched his then-fiancee in a hotel elevator. andy shoals was at the ravens game last night. is in washington with more. so much to get to. being at the game last night, i'm curious what the atmosphere was like. >> it was a very good atmosphere for ravens fans last night. but the story seems to take another turn every few hours, roger goodell continues to be under fire. many people don't believe what he's saying. amidst the controversial the ravens had to get back to work. the baltimore ravens taking the field for the first time since their teammate, ray rice, was let go amid a domestic violence controversy. in a new report, four sources tell espn that rice met with nfl commissioner roger goodell in june admitting he punched his then-fiancee, janay palmer, months before tmz posted the

video. on tuesday, rice told cbs news that rice's account was ambiguous kpired to what the video showed. >>. what was ambiguous about her lying on the floor, being dragged out by her feet. >> nothing about that was ambiguous. >> a number of players calling for roger goodell to be held accountable is growing by the day. >> roger goodell failed to act, plain and simple. there should be consequences. >> and former philadelphia eagles running back tweeting, being a leader is not a part-time job, if goodell holds players to a high standard, he should be held to that same high standard. >> mere hours before the kickoff, cbs nixed a prerecorded rihanna opener. instead the voting time to a discussion about the a abuse scandal rocking the nfl culminating with james brown making a powerful plea. >> according to domestic violence experts, more than

three women per day lose their lives at the hands of their partners. so this is yet another call to men -- to stand up and take responsibility for their thoughts, their words, their deeds. and as deion says, to give help or to get help. because our silence is deafening and deadly. >> after defeating the steelers, the ravens voiced their support for their ex-teammate. >> he's always been unbelievable in the community here. and people have really grown to love him and they support him as do we. we acknowledge the mistake he made. >> ray is still a great guy. you know he made a mistake. you take away those two minutes of his life and you look at a model citizen. a model man. >> fans also showing loyalty to rice by wearing his jersey. >> i stick behind ray rice 100%. and i will rock this jersey every day until he is back on that field. >> this is a situation that is between his wife and himself. and i feel that everybody should leave them alone and let them

deal with the situation. >> michaela, i was shocked to see so many ravens fans wearing their ray rice jerseys last night. there were hundreds, surprisingly, most of them were women. and the ones i talked to, they were much more mad at the nfl and roger goodell than they were mad at ray rice. >> hmm, interesting, though, how this situation has created a much larger conversation about domestic violence, something that we want to continue here obviously. andy scholes, thank you so much for giving us insight into the game and the atmosphere, turn it over to you, chris, for further conversation. >> mick, we have to wonder, we some of what we're hearing the fans say, play into the fact of how we're tone-deaf when it comes to domestic violence and maybe the nfl fell prey to that as well. let's bring in mike peska, host of "the gist" and george martin, former new york giant, author of "just around the bend." and former president of the nfl players association.

mike, let's get one thing straight right now. there's a great distraction going on. we have two great distractions, one is we're distracting ourselves with the cultural problem we have with domestic violence. we're seeing it play out in real-time. the other distraction, the nfl, did they see it? did they not see it? was it delivered? who got it, was it roger? it's a distraction. isn't it true, mike, whether or not they saw it or who got it, they didn't need to see it to know what was on it and that was the problem. >> the ravens owner said the videotape changes everything, it should have changed nothing. it was clear that this unconscious woman was in the elevator with only one man, the man who made her unconscious. ray rice even said it the entire investigation was done, worst practices of how you talk to a domestic aviews victim, janay palmer was in the room with her husband, she said oh, i was part of it perhaps, they put way too

much creed innocence the maybe it takes two to tangle argument. which anyone who knows about this, you can't do that. they've set up this dynamic, where if you can't prove that he saw it, it's very hard to prove that with a huge organization, if you can't prove that, well then maybe how do we fire roger goodell? we should be thinking about it a lot more globalrily, i think. >> george martin, if we were talking about performance-enhancing drugs right now, the rationale, maybe i had something to do with it, it would never fly. that person would go down. now they're saying should roger goodell go down? i am not naive enough to believe there's a chance he's going to go down, because the owners control his fate. here's my question, goodell has said over and over again, for instance when he punished sean payton, the new orleans saints coach, if you didn't know, you should have known. i'm suspending you for a year. where is that level of accountability with him? >> what goes around should come around. here we have a situation where the league is denying having seen the video and as such, they feel as if they don't have any responsibility. but i say bunk to that.

i think number one, that they should look at this as a larger context. i mean first of all, they issued obviously a sentence against ray and then they came back and somewhat of a double-jeopardy, now they're, they've totally disallowed him to play. but i'm saying, is this a systemic problem, chris, or is this something isolated? and if it is a systemic problem, what are we doing for it? we've had our response and outrage, now what is the national football league doing to address this problem on a broader context? that's the question. >> do you think ray rice will play again and should play again? >> i think using my nfl position, i think that he's earned the right to be a baltimore raven. he should play again. but i think there should be some stringent circumstances surrounding this play. and i think the worst part of it, his thousand-wife is going through the process all over again. figuratively. she's already gone through it literally and now she's going through the pain and suffering of it again. >> she's being revictimized.

i believe in redemption and mercy. when the punishment phase is so screwed up, you can't get to an efficient redemption. i resent that. >> and the penalty from the league is six games, they said we're going to up it now. six games, how do you hold him out indefinitely? >> there's no due process, this has been the characteristic of everything goodell has done. there's a couple things, even in their statements, they think they're clarifying this or getting on the right side, they show their ignorance. there's no talk about maybe i need not to be judge, jury and executioner and the other big thing that calls me, we see we've learned, we've met with women's organizations. last year joe belcher killed his girlfriend. no serious discussion? this is not just the shame of punishment. it's the shame of process. >> i agree with everything you're saying. however, does all the emotion out of what you're saying get taken out by the fact that this is the nfl, it's not kpg, it's

not apple, it's a sport and a violent sport and many believe they shouldn't be in the business of disciplining their players, if we look at history, george martin, 14 guys who have some kind of dv, domest being violence case hanging over their heads and 13 games have been taken from them? this is something that the league has turned a blind eye to. the fans seem to think it's okay. so do you change? >> roger goodell has to step up and demonstrate leadership. talk about safeguarding and protecting the brand of the national football league. the actions they've shown so far are anything but safeguarding and protecting the brand. there's an element running roughshod and i think the nfl has to address this on a broader level, not just individual level. >> so short answer -- i want to move on to something about george. goodell is not going to go, right? >> he's made so much money for them. >> this is a league about making money, it's not about giving instruction to society about how

to treat women. >> an instruction that the courts don't give. 59 players have been involved in violence or sexual aggression during his tenure against women. i think i counted one who did jail time, it was three days. >> if you want to be angry in the situation, think about the cops. they have the videotape about the assault, they did not make the case. why not? they would have done it in a regular case. why not here? george martin. something else for us to think about, you're a big man, you look great, you look like you could play today. you make peska look like a little fish. you walked 3,000 miles across this country for a great cause and it has to do with your new book. tell us. >> first of all, my journey "just around the bend" for 9/11 is an act of reciprocation for the people who responded so valiantly. 9/11, 13 years ago. i felt as if these heroic figures really deserved something more than just a dinner or a golf outing. so i came up with a journey for 9/11 to walk across the united states to bring call attention to their plight and to raise

money for them. i'm proud to say my actions resulted in raising over $6 million for them. >> $6 million. >> thank you. >> you get the mickey round of approval. vernon can't clap, he's a patriots fan, a deeply jaundiced individual. >> how long did it take for you to do the walk, how much weight did you lose? >> i went through 27 sneakers, traveled through 13 states, lost 40 pounds. >> you make forrest gump look like a chump. thank you very much. have a good weekend. the fight against isis makesing some very strange bedfellows, the administration is trying to build a coalition in the middle east. and arm rebels. and the question is, who can they trust? will they wind up doing business or making war with people who aren't really friends? we have more on the breaking news as well -- guilty, but not of murder. oscar pistorius convicted of a serious charge in the death of his girlfriend. how much jail time could the

blade runner face? we have a legal team breaking it down as we speak. [ female announcer ] new gold bond rough & bumpy skin therapy.

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so blown away by 27 pairs of shoes. >> 27 pairs of shoes, great cause, great man. he says the only regret of his playing days is that he was only a jet. >> i feel that's not true. >> what did he really say about

the jets? >> it doesn't matter. >> john berman i will not be taken to task by you, although you're making me sweat. let's get back to this angry man, john berman, he has the top story. >> new economic sanctions against russia. they go into effect today. the sanctions are in response to russia's support of anti-government rebels in ukraine. the new measures by the eu include freezing assets and banning travel for several russian officials and rebel leaders. ukrainian forces and pro russian rebels exchanged prisoners thursday as part of a cease-fire deal. an american doctor who survived the ebola virus is donating his own blood to help another u.s. doctor who is now infected, dr. richard sacra is described as sick but stable at an isolation unit in nebraska. he's been treated by a serum made from the blood of dr. kent brantley. he travelled to omaha to make the donation.

the mother of american james foley lashing out at the u.s. government saying she's is embarrassed and appalled by how they dealt with her son's case. diane foley says she thinks they considered the family's efforts to free her son an annoyance. she said they even threatened her with prosecution if she tried to raise ransom money. james foley was one of the two americans executed on video by isis terrorists. new details about the nsa's heavy-handed tactics to collect the person data of americans. according to court documents, the agency threatened to fine yahoo $250,000 a day in 2008 if it failed to comply with orders to surrender a wide array of customer communications. the company fought and lost a legal battle to resist what it believed to be an unconstitutional government program. it took two years of roving around mars, but curiosity got there. nasa says mars rover has reached the mountain territory on the red planet it was designed to

explore. as one of mission scientist put it, we have millions of years of martian history just waiting for us to explore. >> that gets me completely geeked out. why is it controversial? >> a lot of secrets. hunting a lot of secrets up there. >> is that where all of those secrets are? on mars? >> the question is, can we be the only ones? can we really be the only ones? >> are we the best version? >> "total recall" how much like reality was that film? two questions. >> why do you two noodle that, we'll talk weather. you guys be over there. we're keeping our eyes on the skies for the weekend. it's feeling like autumn is on its way. >> i see john's face, he likes it, he calls it football weather. i go eh, it's cooling down, there's tons of showers in the forecast as we go towards the weekend, no thank you. take a look at the southeast, heavy rain again today, pushing in towards the carolinas. rewee saw the flooding out

towards mississippi, tennessee yesterday. the wave and energy into the carolinas today. we'll be watching it for flooding. now saturday, almost the entire eastern seaboard, northeast to the southeast, looking for scattered showers, by sunday it gets better. the northeast drys out. this is not where you want to be on the weekend. we're talking about more showers even as you go in through sunday. here's the temperature change we're talking about. two cold fronts went through, reinforcing cold air went through. temperature differences are going to be huge. if you're in the mid-atlantic, you'll notice a good 10-15-degree temperature drop. so the 90s are gone, 80s, still nice, we'll see cooler weather as we go in towards sunday. we'll start to see more 70s and 60s. especially towards boston. highs there 66. in towards the atlantic we have edward out there, the forecast is keeping it out to sea, we'll continue to monitor it. it looks like for now it stays east of bermuda. fall football weather is here

for john. >> i got to give it to you. >> indira, thank you for that. >> married to a wisconsin football player, offensive tackle. >> he loves my passion for it, right? >> or anti-passion. >> exactly. major developments in the battle against isis, the u.s. is now flying surveillance flights over syria. cnn learns the terror group's fighting force is much larger than previously known. will the u.s. have the allies to defeat them? we break it down, a cnn military analyst will weigh in on the president's strategy next. and alert you if anything looks unusual. wow! you're really looking out for us. we are. and if there are unauthorized purchases on your discover card, you're never held responsible. just to be clear, you are saying "frog protection" right? yeah, fraud protection. frog protection. fraud protection. frog. fraud. fro-g. frau-d. i think we're on the same page. we're totally on the same page. at discover,

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welcome back to "new day." listen to this -- the c.i.a. says the number of isis fighters has doubled, maybe even tripled from previous estimates. more than 31,000 and 2,000 from the west of that number, which is especially troubling. this comes as the u.s. is already tracking isis targets in syria with regular surveillance flights. also on the ajentd. arming syrian rebels, we've been down this road before in this region, specifically.

so how can we be sure we know who the friends are, who the foes are, and what happens with where we go? and are we going to find when we get there? a lot of questions, we have a man who can answer them. lieutenant colonel rick francona joining us. obviously a friend to the show. good to have you here. first question, this isis when they were a jv team, they were like nine guys, now we want to justify this huge war effort, the u.s. wants to justify it is that playing into why the number is getting so big? >> there's several reasons. we've always thought there were more numbers than the official estimates. we're seeing a great recruiting effort as well. that would explain a lot of the difference to go from 10,000 to 30,000 is a big leap. so it could be that the government is trying to justify what they're doing or maybe finally getting an accurate count of who's actually there. >> one-second buff of information for people as we try to get our heads around this. let's say they have 50,000, the peshmerga alone are 150,000.

which raises the question, why do they need u.s. help to fight this fight when they have such number superiority. it leads to the suggestion that these guys aren't fighting against isis when they have the opportunity. >> the kurds are fighting a much larger area. not just fighting isis, they're keeping the area. they have a much larger span. they can put so many fighters on the front lines at any given time. >> let's take a look at the map. that's why we're starting on this large part of the world here -- syria. we're trying to highlight different parts of the country. one country, it's like four different parts, like a quadrangle of pain in there right now. who are the players? what do we have to figure out about who to arm, who to fight? >> you've got the regime on one side, on the opposition, the free syrian army. the moderatists that the united states wants to back. they're made up of defectors from the syrian army. this is a huge organization, maybe 50,000, maybe more. they're the ones that we believe

are the future for syria then you've got these three islamic groups, isis, which we've talked about. and we know the numbers are about 30,000 total. then two other groups in there, the victory front which is nothing more than al qaeda in syria. let's call it al qaeda in syria. >> but not al qaeda, al qaeda came from syria, but split. >> separate organization. then another large group of about 50,000, called the islamic front. that's made of seven smaller islamic organizations, made up of saudi arabia and qatar. they're islamist, but they're not far radical. the fsa, free syrian army can work with the islamic front. then you've got nusra and isis. >> i know it's very confusing. >> i want it to be confusing, i know that's not one of the main rules of television, here's why. when we're showing you syria, there was a yellow and brown. the brown is where isis is. that's too simple. that's why i ignored it. i want it to be complicated, when we go to the next big point

of news, we have these 10 countries, arab states and tushie. tushie is not arab. the uae, it sounds impressive, but it isn't. because of what you just said. the loyalties go all over the place in this situation. and you don't really know who will do what and why, isn't that true? >> that's a big problem and i know the secretary of state is traveling and talking to all of these different countries, he's trying to extract from them a promise to do something and all of them have done just that. they promised to do something. it's always different. we'll provide support, we'll provide money. we'll provide training. but what we haven't heard is we're going to provide troops. >> this is a part of the world that likes to fight. they have thousands of years, not that we're pacifists here in the west but they have thousands of years of fighting for commercial reasons, let alone blood and religion. one example -- saudi arabia.

they're going to be on our side, because isis wants to replace them as the main ruler in that region. but there's a big cultural split there. the wahabi-ism, their form of islam there is very extreme and like what isis likes. >> but different. and isis wants to remove the wahabi-ism and replace it with their own radical brand of islam. they've told the saudi families they'll be out and they're going to destroy the holiest site in islam. this is anathema to most muslims, you've got a really radical group, even more radical than the wahabis. >> i want to set the table for you at home that this isn't as simple as it sounds. it's very complicated there. israel has not been in the conversation. they're such great fighters there, so much technology and strategy, why aren't they involved in the mix? >> the israelis have a great opportunity to sit back and watch everything else unfold.

because as long as these guys are tied up with each other, they're too busy to be threatening israel. >> but what about israel helping the fight for the greater cause? >> they're watching right now. they're not jumping into this. no reason to. >> interesting part of the dynamics with the u.s. rick, thank you very much. again, you need to think it's complicated, because it is. and you don't want to get duped by over-simplification when blood and treasure is going to be spent. now we are following a lot of breaking news this morning. one of the headlines, oscar pistorius, he is guilty of culpable homicide. we're going to tell what you that could mean. how much time he could serve. it could be like nothing, it could be a big chunk of his life. we have power house legal team here to break it down for you. what does t-mobile have that at&t doesn't?

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good to have you back with us here on "new day." breaking overnight, a verdict in the oscar pistorius murder trial in south africa. the judge finding the track star guilty of culpable homicide in the shooting death of his girlfriend, reeva steenkamp. he faces a maximum prison sentence of 15 years. you want want to bring in our cnn commentator and legal analyst, mel robbins, attorney and radio host, mo ivory. happy friday, ladies, thank you for joining me. we have to put our south african legal minds on if you will with me and walk us through.

guilty of culpable homicide. unintentional but unlawful killing of a person. mel, that's equivalent to essentially involuntary manslaughter here in the united states, correct? >> that's correct. good morning, michaela and mo. what you have is a conviction on manslaughter. and you know, one of the things that you said that was interesting is you said that it's 15 years. the fact that there's actually no mandatory minimum or maximum. and it gives this judge wide latitude, michaela. and some of the previous sentences that she's handed down. she's extremely tough. on crimes against women. she sentenced a police officer who shot his wife and killed her during an argument about divorce to life in prison and she looked at him, michaela, and she said -- you're not a protector, you're a killer. you deserve to be in jail forever. >> so you're leaning towards her giving him the maximum? >> well, i think you could see her give at least 15 years in this case.

i mean what we've seen from our legal analysts out of south africa is it's sort of custom y customariy to do between five and eight years. but she systemically rejected pistorius as a terrible witness. she thought that he was evasive. i don't think -- she also commented specifically, michaela, on the fact there were a lot of people in south africa that are afraid of crime. they don't sleep with guns under their pillows. >> that gets me to our next question i'll put to you, mo. i understand that it's a principle of south african law, that the sentence is tailored to the culprit as a whole person, not specifically just to that crime. so i'm wondering then, given what mel was saying and given what we've seen of oscar pistorius and how he's been portrayed in trial, how do you anticipate that's going to play out? >> yeah. i mean i'm so curious to watch this. it seems that the sentencing hearing could be as salacious and as long, really as the trial

is. it's definitely not one of the sort of what we've seen in our american system. you come in and are presented before the judge and you are sentenced. and so we really can't speculate on what else we're going to find out about oscar pistorius. because new evidence can be presented in that south african court and she, mel, what mel just said is so interesting about that judge. that she's sort of given a lot of her own opinions about what she feels about oscar pistorius. and so i really think that you know, it is true, most have seen a five to eight-year sentence. but it doesn't seem like she really likes oscar at all. and that she's open to hearing more evidence, you know we also had the other charge that was absolutely not even related to the incident that happened on that valentine's night. and she found him you know guilty of opening fire in a restaurant, even though there was so many different facts of him saying that he wasn't even the one that had the gun. so there's a lot that this judge brings to the table that i think

is going to be important in the sentencing. >> mel, i think what's really an important point to get at, maybe can you give us insight here. is again the judge didn't feel the state made the case for murder. so she found him guilty of culpable homicide. where is it that you think the state may have failed in making their case? >> well the case was largely circumstantial. and as you'll recall michaela, the theory of the case was that he was a gun-loving fly off the handle rage kind of guy and that he stormed the bathroom during a domestic dispute and shot through the door intentionally wanting to kill her. and they basically, according to this judge, did not prove the case at all. and she bought the defense's theory that he really did believe that there was an intruder. and one of the most interesting parts of the case to me as an attorney, is that to be convicted of intentional murder in south africa, you simply have to intend to kill the person.

you don't have to necessarily know for example that it is an intruder behind the door or that it's reeva behind the door. you just have to prove that he intended to kill somebody as he fired. i found it interesting that she stipulated to the facts that he shot, but that there was no proof that he actually intended to kill the person. she kind of bought that he intended to shoot out of fear and that he believed that reeva was in the bed. so she, she really did say that the defense's case is right -- this is a horrible, tragic accident that was caused by his recklessness. what will be interesting is given that 15 years is kind of customary, he was also convicted, as mo said, of discharging a weapon inside a restaurant which calls for ten years. who knows what this is going to give in terms of a sentence. to put this in perspective, for americans, we recently had a conviction in detroit of the guy shooting raneisha on the front

porch. he just got 17 years in the u.s. for manslaughter and second-degree. >> we know the state can only appeal if they believe the judge misinterpreted the law. there will be questions about that, obviously. pistorius can appeal. do you think he will, mo? >> well the national prosecuting attorney authority said they're disappointed in the judge's decision and that they will wait until after the sentencing to make a decision on appeal. but i think that this case is you know, big enough, it has the kind of attention that they need in south africa to make oscar an example. so if the sentencing is light, i do believe that there certainly will be an appeal. >> mo, mel, great legal minds, thanks for joining us bright and early this morning. >> you got it, thank you. we are following a whole lot of news today. let's get to it. >> tj lane and two other inmates escaped from the allen correctional facility. >> lane killed three students wearing a t-shirt that said "killer."

u.s. surveillance flights over syria are under way. >> an f-16 is not a strategy. >> new reports tonight that rice came clean to nfl commissioner roger goodell back in june. >> he failed to act, there should be consequences. i really feel that our country let him down. >> oscar pistorius has just been found guilty of culpable homicide. >> good morning, welcome to "new day," i'm here with michaela perrera, kate boldaun is under the weather. let's qualify what that means. >> we don't believe this is labor, we're not aunties or uncles yet. we're just waiting, but she was feeling a little sick to her stomach. >> we do have other breaking news, a dangerous killer on the run thankfully recaptured. you're looking at him -- tj lane back in custody after escaping from a prison in ohio. you remember him, he bragged

about his crimes, wore a shirt that read "killer" smiled when he was sentenced. he's serving three life sentences for a shooting spree at his high school in chardon, ohio, in 2012, left three students dead. cnn's ted rowlands is following the story. a big question for people is going to be how did this happen? it's important to know even though he had horrible killings on his rap sheet, he wasn't in the hardest prison. true? >> yeah, two questions need to be answered, chris. how did he escape? and is this the right facility for a school shooter who has never shown any remorse? a massive statewide manhunt overnight after three convicts escaped the allen oakwood correctional institution in ohio, including notorious killer, tj lane. >> he did scale the our perimeter fence and again, this is an ongoing investigation. >> one inmate was quickly apprehended while lane was on the run for nearly six hours.

he was eventually cornered just 100 yards away from the prison where he escaped. and taken back into custody without incident. >> i personally saw him. he never said anything at all. >> lane killed three students in 2012 at the age of 17. by opening fire at chardon high school, wearing a t-shirt that said "killer." at his sentencing, where he received three life sentences, he caused outrage by wearing another "killer" t-shirt and smiling. at the scene of lane's crimes, classes were canceled this morning. the school superintendant saying support services would be offered. extra patrols were also offered to the families of lane's victims. >> we immediately contacted the victims' families of the chardon school shooting. we quickly worked closely, state, federal and local law enforcement to insure the safety of our citizens. >> the facility where lane is being held is not a maximum

security prison, a fact that will be reviewed in light of the escape according to the warden, the warden was quick to defend the prison and emphasize lane's recapture. >> obviously i'm not happy that it's happened. no warden in my position would like something like this to happen. but the facts are i'm happy to announce that we have mr. lane back in our custody. >> and chris, clearly the people in chardon not happy this happened, but relieved that tj lane is back in custody. the prison officials are reluctant to give details until a full investigation has been conducted. we do know that tj lane and the two other inmates who are all in custody now, were able to escape by scaling a fence. >> ted, you know this, but many will be surprised to hear that criminals who do terrible things aren't always in maximum-security prisons, thank you for the reporting, we'll track back with you later. now to preparing for the battle against isis. the administration is conducting

surveillance flights over syria on isis positions. the president and his national security team mapping out potential targets for air strikes based on this new intelligence. joe johns joins us from white house with details. this as secretary of state john kerry saying the u.s. is not at war with isis. the words are important. >> that's true, michaela. it sure sounds like a war, but a source telling cnn the administration is trying to avoid elevating the international status of isis any more than has already occurred. and that's why they're not calling it a war. this morning, u.s. surveillance flights over syria are under way. the military now developing potential targets for future air strikes against isis militants. a u.s. official has told cnn. this as cnn learns the c.i.a.'s estimate of the size of isis doubles. now said to be between 20,000 and 30,000 fighters and the number of westerners in their

ranks, up to 2,000, including about a dozen americans. secretary of state john kerry in the middle east building a coalition. nine arab nations signing onto the action against isis. saudi arabia agreeing to train anti isis fighters, but none of the nations expected to participate in military strikes. >> i think that's the wrong terminology. >> in an interview kerry took issue with this action being called a war. >> what we're doing is engaging in a very significant counterterrorism operation. and it's going to go on for some period of time. if somebody wants to think about it as being a war with isil, they can do so. but the fact is it's a major counterterrorism operation that will have many different moving parts. >> moving parts including money to arm syrian rebels to fight isis. >> i'm going to have deep concerns about us investing taxpayers' dollars at $500 million to a group of rebels

we're not sure how it will be used to our benefit. >> but many parts of the president's plan receiving skepticism on capitol hill. >> an f-16 is not a strategy. an air strikes alone will not accomplish what we're trying to accomplish. >> were one house republican and former air force surveillance pilot in iraq predicting a long slog. >> think we're looking at a multi-year war in front of us and i hope the american people are patient for it. anything short of destroying this group is going to lead to many, many problems in the future. >> congressional force authorization debates can be agonizing political theater for the party in control of the white house. but without it, some say the administration runs the risk of being accused of running this outside of the law. michaela? >> joe johns in washington with the latest there. chris? >> a lot of questions now as we're getting updated on how this is going to work. let's get into the practicality as well as the politics here. we have reza azila author of the

"new york times" best seller "zealot" and phillip mudd, former deputy director of the c.i.a. counterterrorism center and hilary mann leverette, author of "going to tehran" why america must accept the islamic republic of iran. thank you all esteemed pammists. let's try to answer some of the questions that are plaguing the conversation. rehza, i start with you, are we at war? why do we hear the secretary of state playing with this word? >> because of course there are legal ramifications to the term "war." you know, we never really declared war against iraq. and so for many people the very term itself brings up a lot of sticky issues that this is an administration that doesn't want to deal with it. so i think right now, what we're really focused on is a kind of counterterrorism program, very much like we've been doing in

places like yemen and somalia as the president himself said. >> hilary, i saying you can't hear reza, can you hear me? >> yes, i can. >> the question is this, reza is saying, if they bring up the word war it brings up sticky legal questions, like constitutional ones, but aren't those the exact questions we should be asking and getting answers to right now. enough of the sleight of hand and allowing in part

that's because they've been able to successfully recruit in opposition to an increased u.s. bombing campaign. so the administration has to be very, very careful. if they actually want to do this campaign, they're trying to somehow subtly thread a needle here that it's not really a war. so people in the middle east, especially sunni muslims, shouldn't get upset and shouldn't follow isis. i think that's going to be quite a leap. >> in case, they should have said it's not a jihad. they could have used the word war. the questions you raised can be answered by the man in the middle, mr. phillip mudd. the suggestion is that what you're doing right now is the opposite of what will help squash the idea. do you agree with that?

and the notion that the numbers getting bigger -- isn't that because we wanted them to be small when we were saying they were a jv team and we now want them to be big because we're going to dedicate all the resources. what's your view? >> if you look at the campaign since 9/11, on 9/11 when we were sitting in the threat chair at the c.i.a., we didn't have a good sense of the adversary. we were on the back foot. al qaeda was on the offensive. if you look at the areas where al qaeda has been damaged, pakistan, somalia, north africa, yemen. in every one of those cases, u.s. military, intelligence, law enforcement, diplomacy, the same tools the president is talking about use against isis in syria, the tools that have been fairly successful elsewhere. measured problem, isis, they're not a huge problem, measured problem, measured response. in answer to your questions about numbers. first of all the term c.i.a. estimate, gives the word estimate a bad name. this is a guess, it's a lot

smaller than what we faced against the taliban in afghanistan. remember, we do have an iraqi army that is modestly capable. modestly willing to take the fight to isis. present on the ground. so i think the president is looking at this saying -- hey, we've used tools elsewhere against a terror target and we have a partner here who can beat the insurgent target. >> but this strategy that my colleague, phil, has articulated, instead of being a success, has been an unmitigated disaster he we now have a much more profound -- >> nonsense. >> a much more widespread, deeper, more complicated threat on our hands. >> phillip mudd says nonsense. why nonsense, phillip? >> look at every one of the areas where we went in against this adversary without using u.s. force. al shabaab and somalia, heavily damaged. al qaeda on the arabian peninsula, less of a threat than they were two years ago. >> they never were a threat. >> they had a suicide bombers. >> the heart and soul of this is

in the middle of the middle east, the goal to take over mecca and medina, which isis wants to do, that's why they can galvanize support. that's why what we're doing feeds right into their strategy. >> what's the alternative, hilary? or reza? >> hilary is making an argument that's been made before on a number of occasions. the problem with that argument is we have no intention of invading or occupying any country. secondly, let's not forget isis is profoundly unpopular. nobody likes isis. >> that is not true. that is not true. there's a saudi -- >> please allow me to finish. >> hilary, don't be part of the problem. be part of the solution, let him speak. >> isis is not al qaeda, al qaeda had a popularity that isis does not enjoy. on the contrary. perhaps the most remarkable thing about isis is the way that it's brought these enemies together. both sunnis and shia, iran and saudi arabia, turks and kurds --

>> that's wishful thinking. >> an aerial bombardment that is also supplemented with arab troops on the ground, with kurdish troops on the ground, perhaps even iranian boots on the ground. is a proper strategy for dealing with an insurgency problem. >> hilary, hilary. -- >> that's wishful thinking. >> let's frame the debate. we want to make sure you respond to what matters most. what they're saying is this, there's been a galvanizing of anger for and against isis. now, you say that's not true. what is your proof that it is not true? >> we have data. the saudis have actually polled among their population, a saudi-owned newspaper did a major poll in july that found that 92%, 9-2, 92% of saudis think that the values and adherence to islamic law that isis promulgates, puts forward, accords with their own. that's enormous support.

we're in denial about the support that isis can tap into. that's why we're always shocked that this happened. >> i'm with you, i understand where you're coming from on it. let's unpack the poll, phillip mudd, 92% say they like the values of isis. but isn't it true that what they don't like is that it's an alternative to wahabiism and they accept their own version of those values and are against isis' holding of those values and that's why they would ultimately be against isis? >> let's go numbers versus numbers. we're not in a fight against values i don't care what people think about values. i care about what they think about beheading people and putting them on stakes. if you look at polling, pew research for example, going across the middle east, and the past 13 years, the number of people who support either al qaeda or suicide bombings has decli declined. we're not in a fight against isis values, we're in a fight against people who are suicide bombers, raping women and putting heads on stakes.

people don't agree with that, i agree with reza. >> it's a complicated situation to be sure. thank you for laying out the plus/minus on this. we're going to have to see. unfortunately sometimes we have these cliches, you know, we will see. this is actually one of those situations. as the actions take place on the ground, and supposedly our arab allies get involved with the west, we'll see what changes and what actually gets fomented, reza aslan, phillip mudd, hilary mann redman, thank you for joining us. let's take a look at the headlines, ukrainian government forces and pro russian rebels traded prisoners thursday night, part of a cease-fire negotiated during peace talks in belarus last week. new economic sanctions against russia go into effect today. the european un sanctions are in response to russian support of anti-government rebels in ukraine. the new measures freeze assets and ban travel for several russian officials and rebel leaders. the mother of american james foley lashing out at the u.s.

government, saying she is embarrassed and appalled by how the government dealt with her son's case. in an exclusive cnn interview, diane foley says she thinks they considered the family's efforts to free her son, quote, an enoins. she says they even threatened her with prosecution if she tried to raise ransom money. james foley of course is one of two americans executed on video by isis terrorists, we're going do hear her interview coming up. dozens of homes evacuated after heavy rains caused flash floods in memphis. more than 30 people had to be rescued from cars stuck in high water. in a dramatic rescue caught on video, one man was pulled to safety from his car just before it really disappeared into the floodwaters. more rain expected in the area today. and a flash flood warning in effect through this evening. just in time for the weekend. >> goodness, what a mess. >> you see that picture? >> hang on, memphis. >> thank for that. another day, another report that says nfl commissioner roger

goodell is lying about when he saw the ray rice elevator video. the question is now not so much about ray rice and what he did, but really, squarely on the league and the question is can the commissioner keep his job without his credibility? also, if you check out the state of iowa over the next few days, you just might think there's a presidential election already under way there. hillary and bill clinton will be there. up ahead we'll have brand new cnn poll numbers that you and hillary clinton might want to take a look at. >> i wonder if she's the favorite? so what we're looking for is a way to "plus" our

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and the next day you have all these candidates. makes my job a lot easier. [ female announcer ] over 100,000 businesses have already used zip recruiter and now you can use zip recruiter for free at a special site for tv viewers; go to ziprecruiter.com/offer5. is welcome back to "new day," growing calls for the resignation of nfl commissioner roger goodell after an espn report says goodell knew months ago, we're talking in june, what ray rice did to his then-fiancee, now-wife janay palmer, janay rice, in a casino elevator. four different sources told cnn that the nfl came ray rice came clean to the nfl and the commissioner what happened in that elevator. that contradict what is goodell said to cnn. >> when we met with ray rice and his representatives, it was ambiguous about what actually

happened. >> goodell says it wasn't clear what happened until he saw the video that tmz released, despite the "associated press" report that said the nfl had the tape for five months. joining us now to sort it all out, if we can, greg anthony, cnn political commentator and former nba player. and chris draft is with us, a former player for the atlanta falcons and the president and founder of the chris draft family foundation. gentlemen, good morning and thank you so much for being here. >> thank you. >> make sure we've got communication, can you hear me just fine, chris? okay. let's start with you, greg. this new report that ray rice told goodell exactly what happened in the elevator. espn has four different sources about knowledge of the conversation. yet this discussion of ambiguity. no ambiguity there, methinks. >> not at all. and it's interesting, when i was playing in the nba i was vice president of our players association. so the process that is utilized when it comes to determining

fines, they're pretty thorough, the leagues have their own investigative tools, if you will, to go about and determine what the actual punishment is going to be. for them, either way this looks bad. because if he punished him with not having all the information, that in and of itself to me doesn't make any sense. if he did it knowing all the information and now is trying to back-track it, it's also bad. either way you look at this thing, it's really going to create a serious problem for roger goodell. and his tenure, potentially. because it's really bad, now this has become a bigger story than what the original story was with ray rice. this thing is going to drag out potentially, because now they have an investigator, robert mueller, coming in to try to determine what actually happened. this is a black eye for roger goodell. and the commissioner's office. >> for the commissioner's office, the nfl, the ravens, so many arms to this. i want to talk about the player aspect, chris, if you don't mind. we see a lot of players coming

out. we've seen tweets coming out. directed at goodell. but it's interesting, you know let's be fair, some of those players are their own axes to grind with the commissioner. >> yeah. it's a difficult situation. because when you look at it, the fact that he was only given two games, there was already a, i guess an upswell that was saying man, how can you get two when there are other issues from substance abuse and you know, in performance-enhancing drugs, you know how can that work? i think when you look at it, the nfl when it's come to issues that are outside kind of is your stance abuse and performance-enhancing drugs, have followed the court system a little bit more. they haven't been one to bring in other evidence. so the issues were dealt with in the court and unfortunately, i think when you see this issue, they didn't see the bigger issue that potentially could happen. so they looked at ray, they said ray, he was, he was i guess up front as much as he could. you know, there's some debate in

terms of that. but they felt like in his case, that he was, his character before that had allowed him to have a little bit more leeway. but i think it's clear it wasn't enough. think that's where people are mad, and that absolutely it's very clear that they didn't have a clear domestic abuse policy. so there wasn't a guideline that said it was really more by individual. and that's really what has to come out of this, is a clear policy. and to send a message of where the nfl stands on this issue. >> i want to talk about that in a second. first to goodell, greg, if you will. you talked about the tenure of roger goodell. we know the players have been, a lot of players have been vocal. we know the national organization for women have been vocal. other voices have been very vocal, calling for his resignation. the players can't fire roger goodell. they can put pressure, maybe, i don't know, or can they, on the owners? the owners for their part, they're backing goodell for the most part, it would seem.

>> and as they should. i mean, really up until this incident, if you look at at his tenure, think he's done a pretty good job as commissioner, that plays in his favor. what will determine whether or not he remains is how the public responds and whether or not this starts to have an impact on their business. listen, we just went through this with donald sterling and the nba. there were people who had, who kind of knew the type of person donald sterling was, but until it started to affect the business of the nba -- you didn't see a lot. and so that's what's going to have to play out here. does the business of the nfl start to be affected because of the way they mishandled this entire ray rice situation. and that ultimately, i think is going to determine what happens in terms of roger goodell. >> and the sterling situation, we saw sponsors say no, right now we don't feel confident about supporting the clippers or donald sterling. we'll take our money elsewhere. and that's a question right now that remains to be seen. will sponsors have the same

reaction. greg, or rather chris, 16 -- getting into politics now -- 16 female u.s. senators sent a letter to the commissioner calling for a real zero tolerance policy. and you alluded to that before. there have been some changes made to the domestic violence policy within the nfl. there needs, there are many voices calling for more to be done. more substantive things to be done. any suggestions? any thoughts, any ideas? >> you definitely have to bring that, you have to take that under advisement. it's a huge issue right now. i think the hard thing for the nfl without having something in place, they're making a decision based on what happened with ray rice, where you have a clear video, where there's evidence. and i think you know, really in this situation, without having something in place, they really didn't have something to go by. so they really underestimated. they underestimated how that

video would play out where this wasn't about kind of an internal issue that just needed to be worked out. this was going to be something that was going to get to the public. and regardless of if they saw the video from inside the elevator, eventually that was going to come out. it was going to come out. i think where you see the real issue was not anticipating, if it came out what would happen and then really not seeing the bigger picture of, you know, what kind of message does the nfl have to send in this case. and really understand that we're in a different world right now. and making that decision. so if anything, didn't handle it well enough with realizing that this was not about ray rice just individually and his wife. but really, about a bigger message that was going to send a message to the country. >> speaking of messages, perfect segue, greg, final thoughts from you, last night the ravens played, we know the cbs changed their initial plan for the broadcast yesterday. rihanna was scheduled to have a recorded performance, a lot of people were questioning the

appearance and the optics of that. how did they do overall, what kind of grade would you give the ravens organization for last night's handling, given the backdrop that they're in right now? >> listen, i don't know that there's a perfect way to do it when you're dealing with this. a lot of this is unprecedented. you know, most teams haven't had these kinds of experiences. so i would say for the most part, they handled it well. i just think, listen, no one is prepared, that's part of the problem and that also why a lot of people are upset with roger goodell, is when you get to a position of authority, people expect you to have solutions. and have the right solutions. when they were faced with something as difficult and as public as this, they didn't necessarily handle it well. moving forward, with last night, i thought that was other than the fact that i'm a steeler fan and my guys got pummeled, i thought the ravens overall did about as good as they could. and i thought you saw a lot of people there supporting ray rice. which you would have expected as

well. >> well it's a new world order as you said. hopefully we all of us can learn from this and move forward and not make the same mistakes in the past. chris, greg, great conversation with you, thanks so much for joining us. >> thank you. oscar pistorius, he's behind bars after a judge found him guilty in the shooting death of his girlfriend, reeva steenkamp, we're live from the courthouse in pretore y tortorpretoria, so. and a handful of races will be key during the mid-term elections. brand new poll numbers might show you how tight the race is getting. (vo) get ready!

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all right, a lot going on politically here. luckily we have mr. john king with "inside politics" on "new day." so interesting what's happening down with the congress not wanting to vote about the war. they're saying let the president do what he wants, we think he has the authority. but they were suing the guy over executive orders on much lighter issues. >> mid-term much? >> the irony. the irony. >> mid-term much? that's good. >> courage and congress not often found in the same sentence. chris and michaela good morning to you and happy friday. let's go inside politics, with me to share the reporting and insig insight, jacky kucinich so the president gave the big speech, and his plan to build up the international coalition. olivier you do what a good correspondent does, show up at the white house briefing room with follow-up questions. you put forward this question,

it seems straightforward, i'm sure a lot of americans are asking how do you define success. or as you put it -- >> what does the victory look like here? you've talked about destroying isil. i don't think i know what that means. what does it mean? >> i didn't bring my webster's dictionary with me up here. i think that -- >> come on. >> well, you know -- >> talking about that, i understood it -- >> i think it's a pretty illustrative phrase to use to describe the situation that we envision. >> i assume your point was does victory mean they lose their territory? does victory mean what? what did you make of that exchange? >> what i wanted was not just a repetition of the strategy, but an idea of what are we looking at in terms of benchmarks of progress and what is the end state? what is victory? and he did go into a little bit more detail than just inviting me to consult webster's fine publication. he did talk about degrading them to a point where they don't pose a threat to the united states. he did talk about later about

reclaiming iraqi territory. huge foreign policy national security and ultimately a political question. >> that's what i was hearing on the hill yesterday. members of congress, senate and house are asking the same question. so clearly the administration has not yet answered what defines victory to anyone's satisfaction. >> they have to know, fairly or unfairly, they are operating in this environment, during the post-iraq war environment, where number one, a lot of things said by senior white house officials, including people at the podium, turned out not to be try and a lot of others had buyer's remorse that they weren't tougher in the days post 9/11. so josh has to know it's coming, right? >> i think he did. he bought a little time with the opening sentence this he know that this is a major question. one of the problems we're having at the white house is frequently when you ask what are benchmarks for success and what does victory look like, is they repeat the strategy. which isn't quite the same thing as asking what will the strategy accomplish. >> the strategy is what you're going to, do the idea is when do you know you're done? it's a fair question and it will

be a fair question going forward. let's move on to fun politics, a very big weekend out in iowa this weekend. hillary clinton makes a statement, yes, she's given a lot of speeches since she left the state department. but not done any overt political events, certainly not in the first presidential caucus state. she will this weekend, hillary clinton and bill clinton showing up at the tom harken steak fry, look at the brand new poll being released as we speak this morning on "inside politic." 2016 democrats, your choice in iowa. hillary clinton, 53%, vice president biden at 15%, elizabeth warren at 7%, and bernie sanders at 5%. a huge lead for hillary clinton. bernie sanders going to be in iowa, three town halls, joe biden is going next week for some events. she was leading once, not by that big of a margin in 2007 heading into 2008. is she comfortable about that? >> you know i think, hillary clinton, iowa has been her waterloo, why not? it's in iowa, too. so i think she's got some work to do there. these are great numbers, i think

part of it is name recognition at this point in the cycle. yes, iowans, especially women like hillary clinton and they want to hear more from her. as we know, in iowa, visiting people touching every single person in that state personally matters. >> how much of a signal, just showing up, is that the signal this weekend? >> we have to rephrase our fundamental question about hillary clinton. it's not will she run? it's will she stop running, right? she's taken all of these different steps. at this point it would be a real fries sprooiz if she opted not to make a push for it. to jackie's point, with her name recognition and clout in the democratic party and fundraising abilities she's a shoe-in to get the nomination in 2008. we have to be careful with this stuff. we don't know, it is name recognition. what we don't know is we don't have a settled field. we don't know who else is in there. is there another barack obama figure who could come in there? >> we had that surprise in 2008. we had huge surprises in 2010. 2012 was not a surprise year, but we had some volatility. so keep watch something the

point of this. one of the things she'll do and bill clinton will do is urge democrats to be involved this november. and there's reason to be. that's big senate race, tom harkin, the senator hosting the steak fry is retiring. in the race to succeed him, dead heat. bruce braley is the democrat, you he's the congressman. 49%. joanie ernst, 48% the republican candidate. if you're the republicans, you're happy. iowa is a blue state. president obama carried it comfortably twice. you have a dead heat in iowa. republicans slightly ahead in some of the red states that has to be a cause of concern. >> joanie ernst came out strong from a five-way primary and i think it's helped her and bruce braley suffered from unforced errors. this is a fight over the middle. democrats are voting for bruce braley and it's the middle they'll be fighting for and it's a soft middle. they don't know where they're going to go yet. >> do these numbers shock you? this is the state that launched

president obama, he beat hillary clinton in the 2008 caucuses, his launching ground into the national politics. 37% approve and 66% disapprove of him right now. that would tell me if that number holds and that race is still close on election day, that tells me the republicans will win because of anti-president sentiment. >> bruce braley won't get the same kind of name recognition bump that your typical incumbent would get. the approval rating numbers don't surprise me that much. the president is struggling coast to coast and democrats will tell you he's a great fundraising asset but you don't want to be running as, i'm obama's favorite senator from state x. >> this is another race where we see early evidence that the focus on security issues, the focus on isis is making a slightly smaller gender gap than normal a and helping the republicans, what we called in 2004, security moms, voters less concerned about the economy and

more concerned about the terrorist threat. >> and it doesn't hurt that joanie ernst is a veteran. >> we've seen a huge polling gap on who americans trust more on terrorism. it hasn't been this large in years, while this is not a national security election, think it's going to be an important factor. >> i want to thank you for coming as we get back to chris in new york, he's the president of the united states, his wife is pretty famous, the first lady of the united states. but the president and first lady leave the white house to go to an event in d.c. there's someone in the beginning who sounds a tad disappointed. >> i'll tell you a little bit about that. >> i really wanted it to be beyonce. >> i understand. >> malia and sasha would feel the same way. >> he thought we were going to be beyonce? >> but this, i realize it was going to be you, then even better. >> see, there.

i appreciate you saying that in front of the press. i know it's not really true, but that's okay. >> i would rather see beyonce. >> it happens to you all the time, right? you show up and people say i thought it was going to be beyonce or justin beeb centre. >> or they were hoping for andrew or mario. it's usually cuomo status where i lose. the little girl may be a politician, she switched her answer when she saw how it was playing to her audience. >> good on her feet, fast on her feet. >> and it happens to be true. our royalty, are not our politicians, it's our entertainers, have a good weekend, good to see you. you've heard that oscar pistorius is going to be looking at a prison sentence, the question is how long could it be? a judge did find him guilty of culpable homicide. like manslaughter under u.s. law because of what he did to cause i had girlfriend's death, we're live at the courthouse, in

pretoria. then the mother of james foaly. you know who he is, beheaded by isis, she's blasting u.s. government. saying she's embarrassed and appalled by how she says her son's case was handled. we have her exclusive cnn interview, coming up. you're driving along,

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welcome back to "new day," everyone. after six months, we finally have a verdict now in one of the most sensational murder trials in years -- oscar pistorius found guilty of culpable homicide. a judge in south africa ruling he unintentionally, but illegally killed his girlfriend, reeva steenkamp. but the judge has now granted him bail. cnn's robin kurnow live outside the courthouse in pretoria. a short time ago we saw oscar pistorius walk away free from the courthouse, granted bail after being found guilty of culpable homicide. is that unusual in the legal system there? >> no, i don't think it is unusual. because what you've seen is a very thorough trial. this has been meticulous. people have criticized the judge

perhaps for really letting this run so long, but she had to hear all the details. and no, she has ruled based on the criminal justice system and the law and the evidence in front of her, that she felt he acted negligently. he didn't intend to kill his girlfriend. and frankly, there are a lot of examples. for example, a man killed 10 school children by driving recklessly. he was convicted of culpable homicide and got eight years in prison this is certainly not a shocking revelation at all. this is about justice and how the judge perceived and saw the evidence in front of her. >> it will be how the judge perceives and sees this case that dictates the sentencing. because she is the one who will determine that at a hearing on october 13th. what are the parameters? any guidelines that might exist for this verdict of culpable homicide within your system? >> well there is no minimum/maximum sentence, she has a smorgabord of options to

choose from, anything from community service to suspended sentence, to years in jail. what is important is that it's going to be a week-long hearing on the 13th to the 17th. and new evidence can be laid out before her. a lot more character evidence can be introduced about oscar pistorius. the issue around his disability, the report that he month having a psychological analysis, all of that now will really play into how she thinks she should sentence him. and it's not just about justice for oscar pistorius. but it's also about justice for reeva steenkamp. she's going to have to weigh that up. and i think there's a lot of options for her. and you certainly can't call it. that's for sure. >> all right, we'll have to wait and see again the hearing on october 13th, robben curnow, thank you so much. the mother of executed american journalist, james foaly, says the government did not do enough to try to rescue her son. we have her exclusive interview with cnn's anderson cooper, coming up. ñzóó

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this is awkward. go to comcastbusiness.com/ checkyourspeed. if we can't offer faster speeds or save you money we'll give you $150. comcast business built for business. listen to this, the mother of james foley says she's appalled by the u.s. government's handling of the case. die yab foley accused the government of getting in their family's way in their efforts to get their son home, even threatening them with prosecution. here's more. >> i really feel that our country let jim down, and -- >> reporter: in what way? >> well, anderson, i -- we met

wonderful people, our government, good people who care, who wanted to help, but the reality of the bureaucracy and really was such that we were not helped. >> reporter: did you feel that your family, that jim was a priority? for the government? >> no, we really didn't. >> reporter: how did you get that sense? >> as abamerican, i was embarrassed and appalled, you know, i think our efforts to get jim freed were an annoyance, you know? and -- >> reporter: an annoyance to the government? >> yes. jim would have been saddened. jim believed 'til the end that his country would come to their aid. we were, you know, asked to not go to the media, to just trust

that it would be taken care of. we were told we could not raise ransom, that it was illegal, we might be prosecuted. >> reporter: you were told you would be prosecuted if you raised the ransom? >> it was a real possibility, we were told that many times. we were told that our government would not exchange prisoners, would not do a military action. so we were just told to trust. >> reporter: were you surprised when you were told that you could be prosecuted if if you tried to raise money? >> i was horrified, i was horrified, because we had had legal counsel that had assured us no family of a captive american had been prosecuted for trying to get their child freed. >> reporter: there was a rescue effort apparently made. >> yes, late, very late, yes. >> reporter: it should have been sooner? >> we feel that the location,

their location was known for more than a year. >> reporter: it was? >> yes. they had been moved a couple of times, but there was also two times when they were at a location that we were aware of for months. >> reporter: did you have that intelligence yourself? did you know that, what was happening to him, where he was? >> anderson, to be honest that part was rather frightening. we tended to know everything before the fbi or nimanyone els. >> reporter: how so? >> because we did everything we could. i went to europe several times to interview the european freed hostages, just so i could find out how jim was, what's going on. everyone was kind and supportive, but the fbi used us for information. >> reporter: really? they came to you for information? >> absolutely. >> reporter: about his location, about -- >> absolutely.

>> reporter: it's amazing to me that you flew overseas to actually interview -- >> no it's not anderson. as a mother, i was frantic. >> reporter: you'd do anything. >> anderson, jim was an incredible human being. he was very courageous and had a heart. anyone who knew him loved him. i did all i could. i was unable to do enough. >> reporter: i understand he actually got a letter to you through one of the other hostages. >> he did, abderson, thank god. >> reporter: which is an extraordinary thing. it wasn't a physical letter, the other hostage memorized the letter. >> exactly. >> reporter: i have an excerpt, can i read it? >> of course. >> reporter: i think it's extraordinarily moving. "dreams of family and friends take me away and happiness fills my heart." it's such a sign of resilience that in the midst of this -- >> he was privileged. he was privileged. as many of us americans are, and he knew that, and i think the

more he saw suffering, certainly when he became a journalist in conflict zones, his heart just got bigger. >> reporter: as i was watching the president speak last night i was wondering if you were watching. >> yes, i watched. >> reporter: what was going through your mind? >> i feel that our government needs to be shrewder, smarter, willing to negotiate with these people who hate us so that we can find better ways to rid ourselves of terror. >> it's amazing to me how strongly and calmly and pragmatically she speaks. i think that if i were in her position i would still be so torn up. she's very, she's had a chance to process this, it would seem. >> right, not only is she making very intelligent points, certainly there at the end about what we should be doing right now in the u.s., but that she's doing it under the stress and strain of loss that she's had is really amazing. there are a lot of questions about what was done, what wasn't done with james foley as well as

with sotloff. so if you want to learn more about the james w. foley legacy foundation, it has a lot of information about him and what's going on, that will follow him forward, you can visit jamesfoleyfund.org. okay? from to that this, preparing to strike isis. u.s. surveillance flights are tracking potential terror targets inside syria. the cia now estimating isis fighting force is three times previously thought. the latest details ahead in a live report. thing that is acidic on a daily basis. those acids made over time wear the enamel. i recommend pronamel. pronamel helps to defend the enamel from the acids in our diet... it helps to strengthen the teeth.

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-- captions by vitac -- www.vitac.com happening now, u.s. mill taken planes flying over syria, looking for potential isis targets. this as the cia now says the terror group's fighting dpors is twice the size previously thought. we're live with the latest. what did he know and when did he know it? a new report says ray rice told commissioner goodell exactly what happened inside that elevator months ago, this as the ravens play and fans, even women, wear rice's jersey proudly. breaking overnight, oscar pistorius found guilty of culpable homicide, but not

guilty of premeditated murder. we break down the verdict, how much prison time the famed runner might get. your "new day" continues right now. >> announcer: this is "new day" with chris cuomo, kate bolduan and michaela pereira. >> you both finished your doughnuts now? >> yes, i had two. welcome back to "new day," it is friday, september 12th, 8:00 in the east. i'm here obviously with. michaela pereira. kate under the weather. >> she still has a few weeks left. >> don't mised this headline which is poised to strike. we're not talking about kate. we're talking about the u.s., surveillance planes are flying over syria, looking for isis targets right now. if and when the president orders these air strikes, that obviously has to go along as the condition. if that happens at sad regime in

syria says it would support the effort. joe johns joins us from the white house with details. this is a welcome develop i would take it for the white house. >> i think it is. it's also a tight taupe this administration is trying to walk. one source telling us the administration is essentially trying to take on isis but at the same time not elevating their status and that of course is why they're not calling it a war. this morning, u.s. surveillance flights other syria are under way. the military now developing potential targets for future air strikes against isis militants, a u.s. official has told cnn. this as cnn learns the cia's estimate of the size of isis doubles, now said between 20,000 and 30,000 fighters and the number of westerners in their ranks up to 2,000, including about a dozen americans. secretary of state john kerry in the middle east building a coalition, nine arab nations signs on in the battle against

isis. saudi arabia agreeing to train anti-isis fighters, but none of the nations expected to participate in military strikes. in an interview with cnn's elise labott, kerry took issue with this action being called a war. >> what we are doing is engaging in a significant counterterrorism operation. and it's going to go on for some period of time. if somebody wants to think about it as being a war with isil, they can do so but the fact is it's a major counterterrorism operation that will have many different moving parts. >> reporter: moving parts including money to arm syrian rebels to fight isis. >> i have deep concerns about us investing taxpayers dollars at $500 million to a group of rebels we're not sure how it will be used to our benefit. >> reporter: many parts of the president's plan receiving skepticism on capitol hill. >> an f-16 is not a strategy.

air strikes alone will not accomplish what we're trying to accomplish. >> reporter: with one house republican and former air force surveillance pilot in iraq predicting a long slide. >> i think we're looking at a multiyear war in front of us and i hope the american people are patient for it. anything short of destroying this group will lead to many, many problems in the future. >> reporter: a debate on capitol hill over the use of force authorization would certainly be political theater here. there are also some democrats who would not like to take that vote with the midterm elections looming, chris? >> that's exactly why they should have to take the vote, joe johns, because that's their job, that's why they should be looking at whether or not they get reelected, are they doing their job. thank you very much, appreciate the reporting this morning. mick? all right chris it's getting hotter for nfl commissioner roger goodell. several sources telling espn ray rice admitted to goodell back in june that he had punched his

then fiance in a hotel elevator, months before goodell says he learned what happened, andy scholes was at the ravens game last night. he joins us from washington with more. since you were at the game were you surprised so many female fans were showing their support by wearing ray rice jerseys? >> michaela, i was shocked. i couldn't believe it. i said before the game started i didn't expect to see many ray rice jerseys but they were everywhere, i saw hundreds of people wearing them. we'll get to their comments shortly. the whole ray rice story seems to take another turn every few hours. roger goodell continues to be under fire, many people don't believe what he's saying and amidst all the controversy, the ravens had to get back to work. the baltimore ravens taking the field for the first time since their teammate ray rice was let go amidst a domestic violence troers. four sources tell espn rice met with commissioner roger good

until june admitting he punched his fiance in a casino elevator months before tmz posted the video. on tuesday goodell told cbs news rice's account of what happened was ambiguous compared to what the video showed. >> what was ambiguous about her laid unconscious on the floor being dragged out by her feet? >> that was the result that we saw, we did not know what led up to that. are. >> the number of current and former players calling for goodell to be held accountable is growing by the day. >> roger goodell failed to act plain and simple. there should be consequences. >> reporter: brian westbrook tweeting "being a leader is not a part-time job. if goodell holds the players to a high standard, he should be held to that same high standard." mere hours before thursday night's kickoff, cbs officials nixed a pre-recorded rihanna opener considering the singer's own hands at domestic abuse with

chris brown instead devoting a discussion of the abuse culminating with james brown making a powerful plea. >> according to domestic violence experts more than three women per day lose their lives at the hands of their partners. so this is yet another call to men to stand up and take responsibility for their thoughts, their words, their deeds, and as deion says, to give help or to get help, because our silence is deafening and deadly. >> reporter: after defeating the steelers the ravens voiced their support for their ex-teammate. >> he's always been unbelievable in the community here and people have grown to love him and they support him as do we. we acknowledge the mistake he made. >> ray is still a great guy. he made a mistake. you take away the two minutes of his life and you look at a model citizen, a model man. >> reporter: fans also showing loyalty to rice by wearing his jersey. >> i stick behind ray rice 100%. and i will rock this jersey every day until he is back on that field. >> this is a situation that is

between his wife and himself and i feel that everybody should leave them alone and let them deal with the situation. >> michaela, i have to say again i was shocked to see so many ravens fans wearing their ray rice jerseys last night, there were hundreds of them and surprisingly most were women and the ones i talked to said they were mad at the nfl and roger goodle than they were at ray rice. >> i think it surprised many of us. andy thanks for that report. we appreciate it. chris? >> maybe that's another symptom of the problem there, mick. let's discuss this, because it turns out how the nfl handled the ray rice assault raising so many questions that even the nfl is asking questions about itself. it launched an independent investigation into how it handled the ray rice video, running it with ex-fdi director r

robert muller. former federal prosecutor and jeffrey toobin. robert muller has a good reputation, known for being a straight shooter. what's your take? >> he's really one of the most distinguished public servants in all of american law enforcement. he is a very trustworthy figure. the nfl is going to order their employees to cooperate. i think he's a very good choice. >> other than when clinton appointed that special prosecutor that started all the monica lewinsky stuff as a general rule, if you ask someone to investigate you, you're usually confident they're not going to find anything. do you think that's part of the suspicion? >> no, i don't. i think muller is a terrific choice. the one thing that struck me at odd is when the nfl made the announcement, they said two of their coaches would be overseeing the investigation, that was very tone deaf. >> two of their owners. >> two of their owners. that was bizarre they're not overseeing the ex-fbi director. they're providing information and making sure that muller has

everything that he needs so it was i think in a sense indicative how the nfl doesn't realize how this thing is going to go down. >> muller wouldn't let himself be a patsy. if they wanted control he wouldn't have taken the job. the big question what should happen? i have a couple of general assumptions you can unpack legally and practically. the first one, what's surprising us. oh, we didn't see it, we didn't see it. i say we didn't see the video is a distraction because it is distracting us from the real issue which is they didn't need to see it. the report said what was on it. ray rice said what was on it. we knew what was on it. if i knew what was on it, they should have known what was on it. do you agree? >> well yes but that's part of the problem. the idea of whether we take domestic violence seriously enough, obviously the video transformed our understanding of precisely what went on, but of course the nfl should have responded more forcefully, even

without the video, and remember, all the outrage at the two-game suspension was before the punch video came out. so there was a lot of outrage even before the punch video came out. >> i actually disagree. i think the video was so important not only for this case but for domestic violence cases in general, because i prosecuted these cases when i was in d.c., and you never have video. sometimes you have a 911 call where the victim is screaming that she needs help. sometimes you have photographs and so you see the aftermath but this is the first time in my memory you see what domestic violence looks like. remember, ray rice's attorneys came out and tried to change the narrative. it was all about how she hit him and i think the ravens owner was really quite in a sense, i think that he was really honest and transparent when he said i thought it was just a slap. we all know just a slap is domestic violence as well but he

said that that video that showed him what domestic violence looked like changed things. >> then why didn't the cops make the case? >> i think that's really -- the story we haven't talk about enough, which is obviously we're talking about whether the nfl's discipline was appropriate. imagine the new jersey authorities who clearly acnoblgacnoblg acknowledged they had the punch video. >> and the prosecutors. >> together the prosecutors and they give him a mickey mouse deferred prosecution agreement, not even a misdemeanor? >> they arrest both of them. >> that's right. >> when they arrested him they didn't have the video. when they decided to charge and give rice that sweetheart deal, they had the video. >> why'd they do it? how do you justify it. >> i think it's celebrity justice. domestic violence cases are ineligible for pre-trial diversion programs and if you look at financial law they are ineligible. >> i understand that, that's a strong point but isn't it true

that often domestic violence cases suffer from when the victim says i'm not going to cooperate. >> that's right. >> not when you have a video, chris. >> that's the difference. >> but it remains part of the culture of law enforcement that with a reluctant victim, the cases tend to fall apart. they shouldn't, but and especially in a case with a video, as sunny points out is incredibly unusual, but they often fall apart because of the lack of cooperation. >> and i think that the nfl unfortunately followed the lead of the prosecutors. >> that's right. >> if you have someone that has a sweetheart deal you think two-game suspension is appropriate. >> i am to blame, too. i think my brothers and sisters in the media are to blame. i left it alone. i knew there was video of this, they should have known what happened. if it were congress or an issue we care about more, we would have never let them go with saying we don't know if it's in the video. >> how many domestic violence defendants, convicts, are currently playing in the nfl and

the nba and the nhl and major league baseball. >> 14 guys in the nfl who have a case in the past or hanging over their head and correctively 13 games taken away from them. >> it was only the video that set this off and you're right we deserve some responsibility. >> what does that say about goodell and how he perceives domestic violence and what he has done on his watch about domestic violence. i think these calls of, you know, his resignation i think at this point are pretty appropriate. >> they're appropriate but here's my take. i don't think it goes anywhere. the owners control what happens to goodell, they're making a ton of money, that's what they care about. >> i think if it's determined, if muller determines that goodell did see the videotape that he lied. >> then he's got trouble but i don't think they asked for muller if they know they had that coming your way. i think you find another option. >> i'm not that cynical. >> you don't think roger goodell allows an ex-fbi to come in if he knows he's going to find out

i'm lying? >> it was out of his hands at that point. they had to do an independent investigation but much more likely outcome is that they were either incompetent or willfully blind. i don't think goodle is lying to us whether he saw it but the issue is how serious is the incompetence, is the willful negligence of this investigation. >> or are they a reflection of everybody else? women are saying it's not a big deal, if she forgave him, you should forgive him, marriage is complicated, the cops didn't make a case. leave it own. it's just football. there's a lot of cultural ignorance flowing. >> and on the other side there are many people that are outraged. >> they should be. >> and many people think this is -- >> make it quick i'm getting yelled at. about to be some anchor violence in here. >> the morons wearing the 27 jersey, how stupid is that? you know? >> really? >> really? >> we'll end it on that. we also have some other breaking news to tell you about this morning, so let me get you right

over to john. breaking news this morning, almost two years after mulalah yousafzai was shot in the head the pakistani security forces arrested the gunmen who tried to kill her. they were able to track down the gang. the teenage crusader was shot in the head by gunmen in 2012. she recovered and keeps fighting for the right of all children to get an education. let's keep our eye on that to see if justice is served. the european union sanctions are in response to russia's support of anti-government rebels in ukraine. they freeze assets and ban travel for several russian officials and rebel leaders. ukrainian government forces and pro-russian rebels traded prisoners thursday as part of a cease-fire during negotiated peace talks. australia on high alert for a terrorist attack. prime minister tony abbott warned that terrorists had "intent and capability to mount an attack" though no specific

threat had been made. this is australia's first high alert since it launched its four-washing level in 2003. they said to expect more security at ports of entry and public events. lot of countries in the world raising their alert levels. >> all right, john, thanks so much. good to have you here with us this morning. 17 minutes past the hour. two guilty verdicts just announced in the oscar pistorius murder trial, the bladerunner could be facing years behind bars. we'll break it down with our legal minds coming up next. [ brian ] in a race, it's about getting to the finish line. in life, it's how you get there that matters most. it's important to know the difference. like when i found out i had a blood clot in my leg.

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good to have you back with us here on "new day." after six months, judgment day finally finally arrived for oscar pistorius, the judge finding him guilty of culpable homicide ruling he unintentionally but did killed reeva steenkamp. he's been granted bail. sunny hostin and jeffrey toobin we'll do a lightning round since we have you here, put you to work. first of all, surprised, sunny, the judge acquitted of murder charges and went with culpable homicide only? >> no i'm not. it was reasonable. in any jurisdiction, any country, any case premeditated murder is difficult to prove. you have to prove what was in someone's mind and it's easy when you have all of this preplanning and you have a contract murder, that sort of thing. when you are trying to prove someone just decided to do it, you know, in the blink of an

eye, i think that's difficult to prove. >> any part of the judgment, jeffrey, you're taking issue with the judge's decision? >> i think she did a remarkably good job. i thought this was a good advertisement for south african justice that this woman is obviously very distinguished judge has a remarkable history in south africa and you know, as someone who followed the evidence closely, but not meticulously like she did, it seemed the right result to me. >> we've been learning about south african law that the sentence is tailored to theer. as a, on a whole, the culprit of the person as a whole, not just specifically to the crime they committed. they're looking at character and how they behave, looking to the character witnesses. do you think he was accurately portrayed, oscar pistorius, throughout the trial? >> that's a good question. i think having watched it, not meticulously but closely, i think we got a good sense of who

he is. she did find him not to be credible on the witness stand, though, and i think we saw some thee kn theatrics i' have ever seen wit the vomiting and crying. >> he is a personalality of great contradictions. there is tremendous courage and achievement in surmounting this very serious disability that he has to become one of the great athletes in the world, at the same time, he is obviously a person with real anger issues. this was not the first time he behaved really inappropriately. >> we saw that as well. >> with a gun. >> with a gun. >> so that's part of the story that was told in this trial, as always sentencing will be difficult. >> it will be difficult. that's what i want to talk about, look forward here in terms of sentencing. we know there's no minimum nor maximum. >> sure. >> we also know there's other charges he will be sentenced for. any sense of what you think the judge will do? she's a tough cookie when it comes to violence against women >> she sure is, that's her

history. people are talking about 15 years is usually the norm or between 6 and 15 years. i wonder if celebrity justice is going to be part of this. we are talking about a disabled athle athlete. he deserves jail time clearly but i don't know he'll get 15 years in jail. >> i was reading about a culpable homicide in south africa with some similarities to this that ended in a six-year sentence and i would guess in that range and frankly maybe -- >> that's appropriate. >> maybe you're tougher than i am. that would strike me as fun. >> jeffrey toobin and sunny hostin, don't question her toughness. >> i didn't say that. >> i'm saying cuomo. he likes to do that. >> slammer. tonight at 10:00 p.m. a special cnn spotlight on oscar pistorius, sunny, jeffrey, thank you so much. >> thank you. u.s. surveillance planes

flying over syria and iraq, tracking isis targets for potential air strikes leaving some to wonder is the u.s. rushing into war? we'll talk about that with america's first elected muslim to congress, democrat keith ellis. nduccos! when your favorite food starts a fight fight back fast with tums. relief that neutralizes acid on contact... ...and goes to work in seconds. ♪ tum, tum tum tum tums! try great tasting tums chewy delights. yummy. so ally bank really has no hidden fethat's right. accounts? it's just that i'm worried about you know "hidden things..." ok, why's that? no hidden fees, from the bank where no branches equals great rates.

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fancy feast broths. wow served daily. welcome back to "new day." the cia says isis may be more than 31,000 strong. why does that matter? as much as three times the previous estimate. the u.s. is readying air strikes in syria, ready to go the minute the president gives the okay, but that would mean without a vote in congress to authorize all of this. it raises the question, is that the way it should happen? why is congress giving him so much room? shouldn't we have a vote in are we rushing in? joining us now is someone to answer all the five questions i asked, democratic congressman keith ellison. he's traveled there extensively and the first muslim elected to congress. and representative, good to have you as always. you being a muslim -- >> thank you. >> -- is beside the fact of common sense that needs to apply in this situation.

your brothers and sisters in congress, they sue the president on these lesser issues and his executive action but they're saying yes we should fight, this is great, isis is bad. vote, i don't know, we should have bun with you their voices get weaker and weaker. do we need a vote from congress to authorize? >> yes, we need a vote. we need to vote. the war powers act says there must be a vote within 60 days of hostilities to there should be a vote soon. we've already voted that there should be a vote if there are hostilities. we've had a vote that said if these things begin, we need to be involved and congress needs to have a say. we need a full debate and we can get our constituents to call us and tell us what they think about this conflict. >> and the reason -- >> i'm all for that. >> the reason seems to be there this is a heck of a lot more complex than it seems from the outside. the outside isis, they're bad,

they beheaded two american journalists. let's get them and do it now mainly because they beheaded two american journalists. you're saying the rush to fight needs to be considered because you need to do other things as well as use force. what's your concern? >> what i say is discretion is the better part of valor. the fact is that there are a lot of non-military parts of this problem that must occur in order to be successful, such as making sure we have a multidimensional coalition that's working together to solve this problem together, starting with the iraqis, but then beyond that the states that are neighboring such as turkey, saudi arabia, uae, countries that are right in the neighborhood. we've got to have some cooperation from european allies, getting all these forces together to make sure that we are dealing with stopping the financial flows to isis, to make sure that we are making sure that the country is run inclufl, and that isis cannot exploit

grievances of the sunni portion of iraq which is a significant portion. all these things are important and they don't involve firing a shot. we need a full debate, a strategy to win and this is way more complicated than just sending in some military power. >> when you hear boehner up there saying f-1s are not a strategy it's hypocritical. he's not helping developing a strategy like you outlined and he's not alone. they want to put the numbers out there, congressman, say they're so much bigger than we thought. what is the suspicion there? they're doing that because they want to make isis look at bad as possible so the bombing seems better and better. you know you have 150,000 peshmerga, the kurdish fighters. it's not about numbers. it's about resolve, that comes back to politics. do you believe we are missing the point of what will achieve the most benefit in the region? >> i think there's not enough

emphasis on the political aspect of what's going on here, and i certainly believe that isis is a to, that h force that made the most out of people who have been oppressed and that's got to be where we focus our attention. as it relates to the speaker, i would simply ask us to put politics aside for the moment. there's plenty of time to try to do political positioning. now is the time to get together, help formulate an american strategy that involves a world community and the region that is designed to win and have a sustainable peace. we can't be back doing this every few years. we've got to put this thing to an end, and it's got to be comprehensive. >> the last 25 years proved you wrong though, right? we started this conversation in the early 90s. here we are on the one day past 9/11 and the exact same position, four consecutive presidents delivering the same message, we're going into iraq to try to stop the terror threat

in the middle east, and the question therefore i have for you is, you just came back, you visited turkey. you've been to different areas in the middle east. >> yes. >> where is turkey? where are the other ten arab allies we supposedly have? they're very quiet in their commitment to boots on the ground and swapping blood and treasure. >> we've gotten news that the uae is in saudi arabia has volunteered to help. all the countries in the region are coming together. >> not to fight. >> and this coalition is being formed -- >> not to fight. >> we don't know about that, chris. we need to allow the diplomatic process to continue on i think before this thing is solved you will see people who are putting some things on the line to protect their own region, again, you know, we're actually, we don't live in the middle east, right? we're over here in north america >> right. >> the fact is that they have got to step up, and before i'm ready to say that they're not to

fight, i think they eventually will be led to be there although of course that remains to be seen, but i wouldn't be so pessimistic. >> no, and i'm sorry if it comes across as cynical. we've been in this situation, it doesn't feel right. it feels like we may be getting played and here's why i say that. what happened in northern iraq? the peshmerga are no joke. you know that. we've been around them. they can fight and they fought well before. in anbar and the kurdish regions they didn't really fight the way they usually fight. why not? you hear these other countries, it's a region that is known for swapping blood when they don't like what's going on. they're not stepping up here. why not? are they hoping that the u.s. gets into a position where it has to do all the dirty work for them? >> well, in anbar and fallujah, rah mad ramadi the western iraqi areas those people are ambivalent how they feel. the iraqi government versus isis.

they really are, i mean, they hate the government of iraq as much as they do isis. in fact they hated them less because they joined with isis in order to hand over mosul. so the bottom line is, this is a heavy political lip. we have to convince the sunni tribes that ultimately they are better off being included in an iraqi government, getting a share of the oil revenues, being a part of governing that country, rather than collaborating with isis. that's not easy, because we joined with them with the awakening movement back a few years ago and then when the al maliki government was formed they get on the outs again. now they have a trust deficit so this is all a part of what we've got to continue to work on >> congressman ellison, i do not keep having you on "new day" because you're muslim, i keep you on because you don't fall easy to the answers of might making right in this situation. there are a lot of tough issues

in front of you, please keep asking the right questions and we'll have the conversation. thank you for joining us. >> yes, sir, thank you. another big situation, nfl chief roger goodell has come down hard on a lot of guys for a lot of things that are a lot less important than domestic violence. the big phrase is zero tolerance, long suspensions. lot of the people who have been suspended are wondering where the same standards are for him. the question, can goodell weather the ray rice scandal. and for many, it's a struggle to keep your a1c down. so imagine, what if there was a new class of medicine that works differently to lower blood sugar? imagine, loving your numbers. introducing once-daily invokana®. it's the first of a new kind of prescription medicine that's used along with diet and exercise to lower blood sugar in adults with type 2 diabetes. invokana® is a once-daily pill that works around the clock to help lower a1c. here's how: the kidneys allow sugar to be absorbed

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time for the five things you need to start your new day. the pebt gone started surveillance fights over isis positions in syria. the missions are collecting information of potential targets for air strikes against isis, meanwhile the cia now estimates that isis has between 20 and 31,000 members, three times more than the agency's earlier assessments. new sanctions go into effect against russia. the european union will freeze assets and ban travel for several russian officials and rebel leaders. the mother of james foley, one of two american journalists beheaded eye isis is apuld by the u.s. government. diane foley says she didn't do enough to rescue her son. t.j. lane back behind bars after a short-lived prison escape in ohio. the 19-year-old is serving three

life terms for a deadly shooting in his high school in 2012. dr. kent brantly is donating his own blood to help another u.s. doctor who is now infected. dr. richard sakra is described as sick but stable in an isolation unit at a nebraska hospital. those were the five things to know for you and your new day. here are a few extras to brighten your day.

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if in fact it turns out that the tape was received, held onto by somebody in the league office, should the commissioner lose his job?

>> j.b., if there is evidence of a coverup, with this video or anything else, i don't see how roger goodell keeps his job. >> that was commentary on cbs last night ahead of the ravens/steelers game. former fbi director now looking into the nfl's investigation to determine what the nfl knew about the ray rice incident and just when the league knew it. this comes as sources tell espn that ray rice told nfl commissioner roger goodell back in june that he punched his then fiance in a hotel elevator. can and should roger goodell remain the most powerful man in the national football league? we bring in corey wire, fox sports analyst and nine-year nfl veteran and jamel hill coast of "numbers never lie" on espn. jamell, we learned yesterday that the ap was reporting that the nfl had the tape of this incident in the elevator in its custody. we learned overnight from espn,

ray rice is saying he told roger goodell that he punched his then fiance in the elevator. jamell as we sit here this friday with the drip, drip, drip of information, what do you think roger goodell's position is? how safe is his job? >> well i think right now we're all waiting to see who exactly in the nfl office received this tape, and depending on how close their title is in relationship with roger goodell's, i think will very much determine whether or not he has a continued future in the nfl. if it's somebody in his immediate executive catch i think it's going to create a lot of doubt whether or not roger goodell knew about the existence of this tape but for me and i think this is the crux of the problem of this is that if it's true, and assuming it is true based off our reporting, that roger goodell was told what ray rice did inside of that elevator and he still decided that a two-game punishment was worthy.

i think it just exposes just kind of how the nfl was ill-equipped to deal with the issue of domestic violence. somebody tell you they punched their wife shouldn't be any different than you seeing it, but yet for them, the jarring thought of actually seeing it is what made the difference. we're back to the original question which is, did seeing it on video, why should that have even mattered for roger goodell? >> the fact of domestic violence should be the issue here, not seeing it or not seeing it as you say, but it gets to the system in place, it gets to the attitudes that were in place and may still be in place. cory the constituency for roger goodell is the owners. that's important when i play this next bit of sound. players have started to weigh in on this issue and roger goodell's management of the situation. hear now from jonathan vilma. listen to this. >> roger goodell failed to act, plain and simple. he failed to act, there should be consequences.

>> now vilma of course has a little bit of an ax tow grind with the commissioner. he was part of the bounty gate issue with the saints but other players are weighing in, brian westbrook tweeting "being a leader is not a part-time job. if goodell holds the players to a high standard, he should be held to the same high standard " are these players upset with domestic violence or sick of roger goodle? >> there may be a little bit of both john but no question the players are livid about the way this was handled. . whether you're a current envelope player or retired former nfl player those reflect upon the brotherhood, upon every man who stands and stood behind the shield. i talked to everyone from first round draft picks to future hall of famers who said one, ray rice should be banned for life, because that's not who we are, that's not what we condone, because what you tolerate, you

perpetuate. an example needed to be made of this situation, of ray rice. look, i believe in second chances, but sometimes an example needs to be made, banning a guy like ray rice for life could send a stronger message. guys have been slapped on the wrist before, john, and it didn't work. there is still an issue here, a message can be sent loud and clear that domestic violence, hitting women is wrong. so yes, john, former players, current players, are upset greatly by this situation, and also how goodell has failed to handle this situation. he says that he didn't know about the elevator tape or hadn't seen it. well, remember in bountygate, jemele, he said ignorance is no excuse. >> seems he has a different standard here. >> yes, that's hypocrisy. so whether he saw it, which i can't believe he didn't, or didn't try hard enough, if tmz could get a hold of that video, roger goodell certainly could have gotten a hold of that

video. >> coy we love hearing your opinion. you're a smart guy, you played in the league. you talk about the brotherhood of former players, current player, even hall of fame players. the question jemele, do any of them matter? the only constituency goodell has to answer to are the league owners, owners who are making ail fortune, a fortune that has helped to be made by roger goodell. >> and i think that's why the players are upset because roger goodle put himself in a position where he is judge and jury, so when it comes to their punishment he's the only one that decides. roger goodell however, now that he's in the cross-hairs, his future in the nfl will be determined by outside investigators and by the owners. so it's a much wider group and as you mentioned, the owners have their full support is behind roger goodell because business is booming. until dollars are being taken away, until the bottom line is sabotage, i just doubt seriously if anything is going to happen

to roger goodell unless they have firm and concrete proof that he saw that video. now the next question i think and it's a fair one to be asked is let's say roger goodell is cleared in this investigation. how is he able to effectively govern after this? that's a real issue. >> it will be interesting to see. >> great point. >> coy, last yes. i was surprised watching the ravens/steelers game last night to see so many people, a lot of women wearing ray rice jerseys at the game. should i have been surprised? >> you know, i don't think anything should surprise us anymore, jemele, john, this is are the pa of the issue. it's people, and it's not the majority. there are a few people who are just not of their right mind and look at ray rice as an example. look, for the most part the guys in the nfl, most of them are good human beings, but there are people who make bad decisions. there are people who don't stand up for the right thing. there are people out there who do things that should not be

done, and the bottom line is, last night, you saw those jerseys, you saw those people supporting a guy who hit women, even women supporting that, that's a minority, guys, and i think that's what we have to remember. there a lot of good people out there who know what happened was wrong, who are appalled by it in and out of the nfl. i think that's what we have to focus on. >> coy wire, jemel hill, appreciate your insight on this. talk to you again soon. >> thank you. james foley's mother speaks out slamming the u.s. government for not doing enough to save her son. coming up, more of her compelling interview with anderson cooper. protecting my future. thank you for being my hero and my dad. military families are uniquely thankful for many things, the legacy of usaa auto insurance could be one of them. if you're a current or former military member or their family, >> thank you.

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there is a great need for news and analysis and for that we get you to "the newsroom" with ms. carol costello. >> that's right, i got it all! have a great weekend. thanks so much. "newsroom" starts now. -- captions by vitac -- www.vitac.com good morning. i'm carol costello. thank you for joining me. for the first time since the baltimore rafbs released ray rice and the nfl suspended him the team returned to the field to play. the ravens beat the pittsburgh steelers 26-6 last night and while rice has been castigated all over the world many fans still support him. fans, including women, showed their loyalty by wearing rye rice jerseys to the game and we're learning mor