a car window and used a taser on a man in the passenger's seat. the whole thing caught on cell phone camera by the driver's 14-year-old son in the back seat. the driver, lisa mahony and her friend, jamal jones tasered. they say the incident was a case of excessive force. police say they were follow the law. tomorrow night the family will be here exclusively, in primetime to tell us their story. i'm don lemon. thank you for watching. see you back here tomorrow night. and "ac 360" starts right now. >> good evening. thank you for joining us. we have breaking news on several fronts in the ebola crisis. including in spain where we are getting word that now a second nurse's assistant may have been infect with ebola. health workers are protesting saying they don't have the training or equipment to deal with the disease. we'll take you there. also tonight. how did a traffic stop for an alleged seatbelt violation, end up with police officers pulling

guns, smashg t smashing the car tassing a passenger. two kids in the back seat. caught it on video. we begin with breaking news on the ebola outbreak a nother person in spain, under observation suspected of having the virus. that and a time line emerging and the diagnosis of thomas eric duncan. he remains in critical condition tonight. stable condition we are told. as we learn more about what happened before he left liberia. we know that back in september, he helped a pregnant woman who had collapsed. we know that nine people who helped they're that day, are now dead or dying. infect with the disease. nine people. tonight, we now know that the pregnant woman's ebola diagnosis came after, again, after mr. duncan had already left liberia to come to the united states. we know this because reporting on the ground from cnn's correspondent we learned a bit of this last night from our correspondent and asked her

today to go back and see what more she could fine out. this is critical information. she joins me life from monrovia, liberia. there has been some confusion as to not only when exactly duncan contracted ebola, but also when he realized he contracted it. you're learning more details. what have you found out? >> well, we have now confirmed, anderson, with the liberian health official in charge of contact tracing in this case that thomas eric duncan left liberia on september 19th, it wasn't until days later that they began to suspect that the pregnant woman who had he happened after her collapse may have been a victim of ebola and they learned this by tracing back the cases of all those people who were falling ill back to her as the ground zero in this outbreak. it still took them a further 11 days to quarantine that

neighborhood where thomas eric duncan was living. so it could quite possibly be that liberian health officials told us that he didn't realize he might have contracted ebola until he walked into that clinic in texas, anderson. >> just to be clear -- >> in dallas, i should say. >> when did this woman collapse, the pregnant woman that he helped? when did that occur? he left liberia on september 19th. >> well, we understand that it was in the day or two immediately before his travel, so he actually departed the country on the day of her death. so he was there when the funeral preparations were going on. it is a very small compound. you saw the pictures yesterday. and with a lot of people crowned here, that's the big concern here is how many people were jostling each other, on to her body, as the morning process was going on, anderson. >> this was a young woman who collapsed, she was pregnant. so given the fact that ebola is ravaging liberia, did people in the village when they saw her

collapse and when she died, they didn't think, well, there is a good chance it is ebola. some people say, okay, he probably maybe he suspected that he had ebola. why else would a young woman collapse and die? >> this was a pregnant teenager, so i think most people's immediate thought was this has to be complications with the pregnancy. she was seven months along. we understand from her sister she had been having a difficult pregnancy and she wasn't showing any of the usual symptoms that people associate with ebola. none of the horrifying bleeding from the nose, from the eyes, from the ears. she just simply collapsed. and i think it sounds like most people acted on that natural instinct to run towards her, and try and help her, but in this case, with devastating consequences. >> the critical information on this, thank you so much for reporting. more breaking news tonight, another nurse's assistant under observation in spain, possibly infected with ebola after a different nurse's assistant became the first person in the current outbreak to contract

ebola outside africa. she helped take care of two missionaries who returned to spain for treatment and those missionaries have since died. health workers in spain have been protesting saying they don't have the proper tools or training to deal with ebola case. and now there are at least four more potential cases including this latest nurse's assistant. cnn international correspondent isa soares joins me with the latest. do we have more information on how this nurse may have contracted ebola? >> yeah, good evening, anderson. what we know is the auxiliary nurse, another auxiliary nurse basically was admitted to the hospital just behind me carlos iii hospital two and a half hours ago. she was admitted with a high fever. and that's all we know. it hasn't been confirmed whether she has ebola. they'll be doing tests tomorrow to tell us if she has ebola. but she's one of three other people being monitored. one of those people is the husband of the first person who has ebola in europe, another

auxiliary nurse, of course. fear, of course, he had no sort of protection, so he might have it. and also another, an engineer, a spanish engineer who was traveling in nigeria who really, they fear, could have the disease. one of the other nurses who is part of auxiliary nurse who is part of the 30-person team that were helping the missionaries was really, you know, they said she didn't have anything, they thought she had it, but now she's being cleared and expected tomorrow to release her, anderson. >> after treating the priest who died from ebola, i understand this nurse went on vacation, was traveling around madrid. do authorities have any idea how many people she may have come in contact with and when did she start to actually feel sick? >> yes, so the last priest, the last missionary died on the 26th of the month and then she started feeling -- she took the i did off, she went on holiday after.

we were told she didn't leave madrid, didn't travel elsewhere, she stayed in madrid, but started showing symptoms of fever four days later. she was -- the fever wasn't too high, only this week that she actually went to the hospital, just south of here, south of madrid, and after hospital to really test her for ebola. she walked in there with a mask. it took them two hours to carry out that test. this was all happening, you had patients and nurses and doctors going back and forth. and took an additional eight hours, anderson, it bring her to this hospital. so all in all, they're trying to monitor 30 people here, 22 other people she may have come in contact with in the other hospital in addition to family and friends, anderson. >> just so i'm clear, she was

walking around for several days on vacation with a fever, correct? >> correct. that's what we understand. she did not travel, she did not go on a plane, haven't been told she stayed in madrid, but was wandering around with a slight fever and then when things got more complicated, she went into hospital. so at the moment they're trying to ascertain how many people she really was in contact with. >> thank you so much. clearly this is no longer just a west african problem. in addition to three cases in spain and two cases we know about here in the united states, so far in this outbreak there has been one ebola case in france, one in the united kingdom, two in germany, one in norway. joining me now live, chief medical correspondent dr. sanjay gupta. she has experience in contact tracing, tracking down people a patient had contact with. also with us david coleman,

author of the upcoming ebola, the natural and human history of a deadly virus. so sanjay, if all the protocols were followed, how could a nurse, perhaps even two nurses, contract ebola? >> with regard to first nurse, i think you just have to assume there was some breach of protocol. >> i read -- she had only been in the room two or three times. >> right. and presumably was wearing the protective gear, though obviously you heard the same concerns, whether they had enough protective gear or not. i don't know what they were wearing. you got to cover up all your skin. when you see those spacesuits, it is not so much their respirators or ventilators, they're designed to cover your skin so you can't get any infected bodily fluids on you. there must have been some breach. i can tell you having been over there, when you're taking the suits off, if you take your glove off first, and reach

around with your now ungloved hand, could you potentially touch a part of your suit that has, you know -- >> that is enough. >> that could be enough. that is because, again, this is very infectious. just a small amount of infected bodily fluid on your skin could potentially cause an infection. but i think you just -- you look at the investigations in retrospect, almost always there is some breach in the protocol somewhere. >> this -- how much of a concern is it that this nurse, the first nurse was walking around with a fever, several days, and as you said, didn't leave madrid, but walking around madrid, unclear how many people she came in contact with, all these -- all of the other cases we heard become sick and is laying at home. >> right. and it sounds like she had the fever, a mild fever, but didn't have the rapid illness which a lot of people do. so she didn't get much sicker are right away. the best way to describe this, doctors look for a certain number, i asked about this today. typically unless your fever is over 101.5, it is not an exact thing, but it is a high fever before you really start to become infectious. again, meaning there is enough virus in your body now that has

gotten into your bodily fluids, sweat, blood, vomit if you're throwing up, that could potentially infect other people. have a mild fever, you're probably not at that point yet. she -- frankly if she's a nurse, taking care of ebola patients and developed a fever, i'm surprised she did not at that point go into the hospital to get isolated. >> immediately you get a fever, if you just had contact with ebola patients who have died. >> and she's a health care person, she should have known that. i'm not sure why that didn't take place. that's the bad news. the good news is the mild fever, below 101.5, very unlikely she was infectious. keep the eye on people she came in contact with, but low risk. >> how do you begin to trace her contacts when it could include not just family and doctors but people on public transportation, bars, restaurants, other people? >> well, anderson you have to cast that net wide to begin with in a situation like this where the patient has not been isolated quickly. there is also a few days, a lapse in time, so people will

forget and you have to spend a long time talking to them, and saying, let's really retrace your steps. where were you that day, who did you have contact with, what activities did you do. you find out who they were, who they had contact with, but you cast that net very wide, make a very long list and slowly work your way down that list and try to find out who really was at risk of ebola infection. >> and you're really relying on the patient themselves to remember and be willing to kind of go into that level of detail. >> that's right. you rely on the patient and soon as they start giving you names, you send out other investigators to meet those people and take any collateral history from them as well, see if they recall the events, see if they remember anybody else who was present there, any other activities of

the person who could be sick at the time may not be remembering things so well because they're fighting for their lives, see what other information their friends and family can provide. >> there are some experts i heard now raising concerns that the virus could spread more easily than previously thought, saying we just don't have the data in order to be able to definitively rule it out. is that true? >> well, there is a concern about that, yes. and this case in spain probably exacerbates that concern, at

least a little bit. as sanjay said, there are lots of things that could go wrong with even a person who is wearing protective equipment. but if she was well protected and she got infected, then it is very important to eliminate the possibility that this strain of the virus is more infectious than what we have seen in the past. >> and we should point out, sanjay, as you noted, doctors there are protesting saying that the equipment that they have, even the protective suits are not of the highest quality. perhaps that's an issue. we were talking about this before we went on air, it is not like one moment somebody is infectious and the next moment they're not. this is a question of the virus building up in their system or reach a tipping point. >> two things happen simultaneously. the virus builds up in the system, someone starts to feel more sick, the virus is replicating and getting into organs like the kidneys and liver, mr. duncan's case, and the bodily fluids and at the same time that makes them more infectious. two things go hand and hand. the sicker you are, the more infectious you're going to be. with regard to the nurse in spain, a mild fever, it is just -- again, she should have isolated herself, i think at that point. but it is unlikely she was really infectious. just that it was probably coming as she got sicker and sicker. >> as one of the challenges in containing ebola, getting people to talk to you, right? already talk of prosecution of mr. duncan if, in fact, he lied. i would think that would almost have a chilling effect in some communities of people being willing to come forward, go to the hospital, maybe they have an immigration status which is

unclear. those are all issues you have to take into account, simply tracing the contacts, right? >> absolutely. when i worked at the cdc, i was aware i was a federal public health official you want to bring down those barriers when talking to somebody, you don't want to be an intimidating figure. you have to reassure them that your immigration status may not be adequate here, but it doesn't matter for the purposes of the public health investigation. please be open with me, tell me everything you know, so you're really trying to build a relationship of trust. sadly some of what we hear here in dallas is a lot of stigma and discrimination against folks living in the area where the ebola patient resided for a few days when he arrived in texas. that certainly can make life more difficult for the public health investigators who really just want to do their job and just want to get as much information as possible and don't want people to be scared of any criminal acts or any criminal action taken against them. >> you want them to come forward. dr. sanjay gupta, dr. yasmin, dr. coleman, thank you. set your dvrs, watch whenever you want. gloria borger talks to leon panetta about his new memoir, which basically slams president obama's policies in syria and iraq.

>> would isis be as much of a threat today had we left some force behind? >> i do think that if we had had a presence there, it might not have created the kind of vacuum that we saw develop in iraq. >> also, two former presidential spokesmen, ari fleischer and jay carney go head to head on that. the fbi asking for the public's help in identifying the man seen there, isis recruitment video. authorities say he speaks english, possibly american. we'll tell you what he allegedly did. heart and brain go down easier. for a limited time, get your four-dollar coupon at centrum.com.

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what is significant is with when a sitting president is criticized while still in office from a former top cabinet member. that's what president obama is

dealing with tonight. leon panetta, former top guy at the pentagon and the cia, stepped down as defense secretary less than two years ago. now in his new memoir, worthy fights, panetta criticizes his former boss' decision making in syria and why the white house did not leave some forces in iraq and whether that led to the rise of isis. the shot from mr. panetta comes at a crucial time of the white house. gloria borger talked with panetta today. >> would isis be as much of a threat today had we left some force behind? >> i do think that if we had had a presence there, it might not have created the kind of vacuum that we saw develop in iraq. >> leon panetta blames that vacuum on former iraqi prime minister nuri al maliki and a passive white house. you describe a white house that, and this is your word, that frustrated you, that didn't use the leverage and that is your word too, leverage that we had in the united states to try and

keep a force in iraq. >> what i'm saying is that maliki was the kind of leader that you had to constantly put pressure on to direct him in the right direction. we had with iraq made a commitment with regards to military assistance, f-16 fighter planes, other types of military aid that i think if we had said, look, you know, if you're not going to give us the agreement that we need to maintain our force, we may not provide this kind of assistance. >> you wrote the president's active advocacy was missing. are you saying he didn't give it the push? >> i think the kind of push and direct involvement that i think would have had an impact simply never developed because the sense was if they don't want it, then why should we want it? >> now panetta says the president is taking the action he needs to take albeit a bit late, like putting u.s. military

advisers on the ground to help iraqi forces. >> the decision to put troops on the ground in iraq to try to help the security forces, he's made the decision to arm and train rebel forces in syria, and he's made the decision to conduct air attacks. so in many ways, he's made the right decisions. now, i think those decisions should have been made two years ago. >> another decision panetta says the president got wrong, not following through when syria crossed obama's own red line by using chemical weapons against its people. >> president very clearly should have said you have crossed that red line, we're not going to allow that to happen. i think initially my sense was they were going to do exactly that. but somehow they backed away from it. >> panetta tries to reconcile the president who vacillated

over syria with a decisive president, who gave the risky bin laden raid a green light. >> a president that made the decision to go after bin laden and made a very gutsy decision to do that and i really respected that decision. i just could not have imagined him not making the same decision when it came to the credibility of the united states on drawing that red line in syria. >> it is all part of a portrait panetta sketches of a barack obama that sometimes looks more like a professor than a president. >> he relies on the logic of his presentation with the hope that ultimately people will embrace that logic and then do what's right. you know what, in 50 years, my experience is logic doesn't work in washington. you got to basically go after people and make them understand what they have to do. and that means you create a war room, you go after votes, you have to push people. >> panetta's version of history didn't sit well at the white house. vice president biden called it

inappropriate. but when i asked panetta whether biden had a point and whether he was being disloyal, he brushed it off, saying you don't put a hold on history. anderson? >> all right, gloria, thanks. a lot to talk about. joining me tonight, former obama press secretary jay carney. also with us, ari fleischer, former press secretary for president george w. bush. so secretary panetta saying what john mccain said to you last month on cnn that the obama administration could have left a residual force in iraq and should have left a residual force in iraq. you obviously disagree with mccain. is panetta wrong as well? >> the fact of the matter is as i discussed with senator mccain, the president did try to negotiate with the sovereign iraqi government for the presence of a residual force in iraq of u.s. troops for the training and ct missions that were vital to the u.s. interest. and the iraqi government refused and no u.s. military leader or civilian defense secretary would

have agreed to place u.s. troops in a country like iraq absent the immunities that we demanded in those negotiations. >> ari, what about panetta's comments? >> most people, not everybody, most people in the administrations are willing to share the real things that happened inside. i happen to finish secretary gates' book last night. here is the context for the discussion he had. the general is in charge to have 20,000 troops left behind in iraq. secretary gates or barack obama wouldn't go for it. he wanted to do 16,000. the president wanted to leave behind 1, 2 to 4,000 troops. so they had no choice but to say no because the troops wouldn't

have made a difference. it was too small. >> you're saying iraq -- >> jay, i didn't interrupt you, don't start that with me. >> the issue is the president wanted to get iraq to say no and that was the answer he wanted to take. if he wanted to support what the military was asking for, he would have pushed for more troops, would have been meaningful, could have stopped isis and would have done what leon panetta said, pressure iraq to do it. the military wanted 24,000 troops, that way they could do the job and train the iraqi military. >> jay? >> first of all, the number was up to 10,000. it wasn't 1,000 to 4,000. the fact of the matter is what ari -- up to 10,000 or even 24,000 troops could do -- excuse me, i was there, troops could do in iraq. >> i read the books. >> well, books are books, ari. the argument here is that 24,000 or 10,000 troops could somehow do what 160,000 u.s. troops couldn't do when there was a civil war in iraq that was even worse than what we're seeing

now, certainly as bad. and what the presence of u.s. troops would do in order to prevent isis from waging that battle against iraqi security forces, it would require them to fight door to door, the way they did when we had 160,000 troops it would mean significant u.s. casualties and it would mean the continuation of this war, and if that's what people are arguing we should have done, then they should make that argument. but the idea that the residual force that is training and equipping iraqi security forces which is all anybody was talking about, whether 10,000 or 24,000 should have been fighting isis door to door, i don't think is a rational argument. >> at a certain point, they are a sovereign -- don't you have to let them do what they're going to do? >> remember, but in america, this is the issue with barack obama, i think that's what frustrated secretary gates and panetta and secretary clinton. president has created a vacuums all around the world because of what you just said. he's not wanted to exercise american leadership at time and again turned out worse for america's national security. here is what leon panetta wrote in his book. the president was so willing just to wipe his hands and say i end wars, i don't start wars,

i'm withdrawing everybody. he wanted to get to a position where iraq said we won't take what you're offering. >> jay? >> there is no question that the president made clear his commitment to ending the war are in iraq. he made clear his commitment to keeping the agreement signed by president george w. bush and the iraqi government to withdraw u.s. forces by the end of 2011. and he believed, consistent with his military advisers, that the best course of action was to leave a residual force of u.s. troops. but not at any price. and not without an immunity agreement. >> if it is so consistent with what they recommended, why are they all writing books saying we recommended it, inconsistent with what president obama said. you can't say it is consistent. what you this is an outlier. secretary gates wrote, you had a small group of people in the white house staff, president and few others on the national

security council who regularly rejected the advice they received from leon panetta, robert gates and hillary clinton. that happened with a number of troops in iraq. and it is a pattern. the difference is president obama won't come out and say america should not be involved. he keeps putting himself in a whiplash situation where he tries to do something, says he's going to do something, bluffs about red lines, but he doesn't mean it and won't act on it and therefore gets criticized not only by robert gates, very well respected man, who served in two administrations, but secretary pa net an elected democrat and former white house chief of staff. something is wrong on the inside when you keep getting criticized by insiders. >> the answer, though it might have been appealing at some point and can be appealing in retrospect is not always the use of military force without end and without a logical plan to reach success. if the plan in iraq was to stay forever, prop up an ineffective iraqi government and prop up an ineffective iraqi security

force, that should have been the stated policy when we went into begin with. that wasn't the pretense -- we're not back with 160,000 troops. >> we're back in iraq, occupied now by isis in a large scale. >> and we're leading an effort to attack -- >> to manage them. >> and to roll it back. >> ari fleischer, jay carney, thank you very much. >> thank you. coming up, the fbi is asking for help in identifying this man, an english speaking jihadist, possibly an american, appears in isis propaganda video. also ahead, a traffic stop for an alleged seat belt violation in indiana leads to a pretty shocking scene as an officer smashes a window, tasers the passenger, the police department is defending this. more when we continue. becomes r. transamerica. becomes r. stronger than peoples twice her size.er was and that strength inspired his liquid muscle cleaner. it lifts tough dirt so you do less scrubbing. and its nozzle stops by itself... ...so less is wasted sure made grandma proud.

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tonight, the fbi is asking for the public's help in identifying a english speaking militant, possibly an american who appears on an isis recruitment video. take a look. >> we're here in the 17th

division military base just outside the city of aroka. we're here with the cities of bashad. they're digging their own graves in the very place where they were stationed. >> that's a clip from a 55-minute propaganda showing the jihadists preparing for a mass execution. what more are your sources telling you? >> this is a significant move by the fbi intelligence sources i've been speaking with say it is possible this militant as we heard speaking fluent english in the propaganda video by isis is american, but the bottom line is that after several weeks of trying to figure it out, the fbi doesn't know his identity. now it is turning to the public asking for the public's help. intelligence officials have been using a facial recognition and voice analysis to trace his accent and then they have been comparing what they find to other americans, intelligence community has been watching and

also officials i'm told have been using human forces to try to figure out who this militant is. but it still hasn't turned up anything so far. >> somebody must know who he is base on the voice. voices are very recognizable. james comey, the director of the fbi told 60 minutes a dozen americans were fighting in syria. is there any indication this guy is one of them. >> no, it appears it is not someone on their radar, that's what is concerning is if this man is a american, so the big fear is not knowing about americans who are currently in syria fighting with isis or wanting to go fight, of course. >> is there a reason the fbi is doing this now? is it simply that they exhausted all over means? >> i think that's part of it. i think the fbi wanted to use its own methods to see if it could gain traction that way. since this man doesn't pose immediate threat to homeland, they had time to do that. there are other examples that show how valuable the public's help can be. the fbi put out pictures of the

boston bombing suspects and asked for help and was successful. the fbi knows doing something like this, asking for the public's help is a force multiplier. >> thank you. hopefully somebody will understand something or identify that voice. more happening tonight. susan hendricks has a "ac 360" news bulletin. >> four men arrested in london today, accused of planning an act of terrorism. investigators won't say where or when the alleged attack would have happened, or who they may have targeted. a federal judge ruled police in ferguson, missouri, violated first amendment rights when they required protesters to keep walking or face arrest following the shooting death of michael brown. the aclu of missouri filed that lawsuit. and the eiffel tower is celebrating its 125th birthday with a new glass floor, nearly 200 feet off the ground. there are new shops, restaurants and a museum at the paris landmark. the price tag, $38 million. if you're afraid of heights, looks scary standing on the glass is not where you want to be. >> that would freak me out, i think. >> me too. >> thanks. coming up, the cell phone video that sparked a lawsuit.

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crime and punishment, a traffic stop that ended with an african-american man being tasered sparked a federal lawsuit. the driver was on her way to the hospital to see her dying mother. a couple of things you should know before we play the video, we should warn you, some might find the video disturbing. the man in the passenger seat is the driver's friend.

her two children are in the back seat, you'll hear them but not see them. the officers stopped the car because the driver wasn't wearing her seat belt. you'll hear her talking to 911 while her son videotaped what happened next. take a look. >> asked me to open my door so i could get out, i'm scared that if you can pull out a gun in front of two kids in the back seat. >> -- you understand? >> no.

don't mess -- no, don't mess -- no. >> i'm not the operator of this vehicle. if you did that, all right -- i'm not in operation of this vehicle. >> you going to open the door? >> why do you say somebody is not going to hurt you? people are getting shot by the police. >> that was crazy. >> that is horrible. >> this is way -- are you recording that? >> yes. >> this is terrible. >> [ bleep ]. >> take it off. >> this is crazy. >> the statement, the police said they only resorted to force after the passenger repeatedly refused to leave the car and kept reaching toward the back seat. they said they feared he had a weapon. either the police statement or the lawsuit say no gun was found in the car. joining us now, sunny hostin and paul cowan. what do you make of this? do police have a right to ask for identification, ask somebody to exit a vehicle? >> i never heard of a police officer asking the passenger who is not driving, who did have his

seat belt on, for identification. i've never seen that. i've never heard of it. but i've got to tell you, my gut reaction when i first saw this video, which was just today, i was just so horrified, i was hurt, i was frustrated, i was angry because what i saw was a couple, a family being terrorized by a police officer who is supposed to protect them. and the police officers escalated this kind of thing. if you look at the stats, study after study after study shows that in this country, black people are pulled over disproportionately during traffic stops. even in connecticut there was a recent study that found that 50% of african -- of stops were african-american, yet 77% of contraband was found when white drivers were driving. so this is an epidemic. there is no question that race had something to do with this. and i think we have not only now

have to look at the bias that was clear when they stopped these people, what we also have to look at is the bias that was present during this stop. why was it so long? why did they use that kind of excessive force? i was in law enforcement for quite some time, anderson, and i didn't see anything that warranted that officer not only using an instrument, a violent instrument to break that window with children in the car, but he also then tased this man. i am just so outraged at -- that this is something that could happen to me, my dad, to my husband, and it could happen to my son. >> paul, how do you see this? >> i don't think it has anything to do with skin color or race. >> that's crazy. >> i think this could happen to anybody if the police are overreacting to a situation --

>> you believe this was an overreaction? >> yes. it makes me cringe when i watch the film. i know from having a prosecutor and have giving advice to clients, the advice i give is never get into an argument with a cop because you're going to lose the argument and be arrested. now, here, here is what the cops were confronted with. first, they make a stop and sunny says, it was a racist stop. i haven't seen any evidence of that. the reports are it had to do with a traffic violation, failure to wear a seat belt. when they approach the car, and they're asking for identification, the passenger according to the police made a move toward the console of the car, and cops are always afraid when they approach a vehicle, does somebody have a gun. they step back from the vehicle and say step out of the vehicle. now what happens next? both passengers refuse to exit the vehicle. >> because they're terrified. >> is that legal -- don't -- isn't there a legal requirement to do follow police instructions? >> yes. and they didn't have it. >> you absolutely, as a police officer, for your own safety can ask and force somebody to exit a vehicle, all right in this case,

it goes beyond that because they had seen what they thought was a furtive move made for a gun. it turns out, of course, there is no gun. >> there is no gun. i got to interrupt you. that was a 13-minute police encounter and what we saw was just a snippet. you look at a bit of the tape, a longer version of the tape, it is very clear that no furtive movement was going on when that officer decided to break that window and use that excessive force. that is ridiculous to suggest that they have the right to do that. the other thing i want to mention, anderson, is the bottom line is to suggest that race didn't take and bias wasn't part of this, just is very naive on your part, paul, and we had a stop very -- >> wait. what makes you save -- what evidence? i'm not saying race doesn't play a role, but what evidence -- you have no evidence in this case in particular. >> you can see what it is. it is naive to suggest that race and bias didn't participate in this. >> i want -- one final thought. no, no, you've been talking for five minutes. >> you can't -- >> -- stopped another woman in michigan, another officer and bottom line is white woman and

he bought her a car seat. >> there is racism throughout the united states. in this incident, so far, with respect to the stop, i haven't seen specific evidence of it. now, as i started to say before sunny continued with her argument, the police, for 13 minutes, are begging the individuals to get out of the car. now, if you're a police officer, aren't you going to start to be thinking, what are they hiding? do they have a gun in the car? they call then for backup to come in, what were the cops supposed to do, build a moat around the car. >> why would they think he had a gun? why would they think they had a gun? why? >> but shouldn't they have stepped out of the car. >> there are children in the car. >> don't they have to step out of the car? >> the officers have to have reasonable suspicion in my view to ask for i.d. and ask him to get out of the car. they had none of that, other than some sort of unreasonable

suspicion -- >> got it. sunny hostin, paul cowan, thank you very much. let us know what you think on twitter. fallout at the va, four officials losing their jobs including the director of the pittsburgh va where they contracted legionnaires' disease. drew griffin joins me on this. hauled a bunch of steel. kept the supermarket shelves stocked. made sure everyone got their latest gadgets. what's up for the next shift? ah, nothing much. just keeping the lights on. (laugh) nice. doing the big things that move an economy. see you tomorrow, mac. see you tomorrow, sam. just another day at norfolk southern.

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fallout from the scandal we have been reporting on for two years. an official is the director of the va health care system in pittsburgh, where an outbreak of legionnaires' disease sickened 21 vets, five of them died. drew griffin fist reported on that outbreak back in 2012. the va did not make it easy for him. >> how are you? drew griffin with cnn. >> this has not been approved by our public affairs office. >> i'm calling public affairs now. want to call them? >> i can't call them. can you take the camera back across the street until we have authorization, please. >> hold on. i'm on the phone with them now. >> after reaching only a message machine, the officer told us to leave.

>> who told you to kick us out of here? >> it is our policy, actually. >> your policy? we can't stand on united states government land with a camera. >> without a legitimate purpose to be here. >> i have a legitimate purpose. i'm trying to find out why the patients died. >> i'm going to have to ask you to leave until it is approved by our public affairs office. >> keeping them honest. what drew found is shocking. five of the veterans contracted legionnaires' from the hospital's internal water system. what's more. officials knew about problems with the water system, they didn't disclose that information for almost a year. drew griffin joins me tonight with the latest. the va is announcing four people being dismissed. director is retiring. is this a purge of the bad management at the va? >> it is at least a start,

anderson. the va is essentially saying they have begun the process to dismiss four high level officials, including the chief procurement officer at its headquarters. more importantly for the vets is the remove of some, which has taken two years, 21 patients harmed, five vets dead in pittsburgh. that director being pushed out. she's been on paid leave since june. she's made about $60,000 from our calculations just sitting at home since they took her out of that post. >> what has taken so long? two years, what about the director in phoenix? is she still being paid? >> yes, sharon helman, the director out in phoenix, the one who drove away from our cameras when we wanted to ask about the secret wait list, she was put on leave. as far as we can tell, she's still getting paid. firing people at the va anderson is a process. it may sound funny but you basically go on a sort of wait list to be fired. it is a very cumbersome process but it is at least beginning. >> they're getting fired?

>> the good news, they are being fired. also retiring. we just learned the head of the troubled va hospital in chicago retires at the end of the month. this didn't used to happen at the va. you could be found incompetent for any number of reasons. you remain in your position. that is changing. the new va secretary bob mcdonell seems to be making his move on changing the organization and i think in the weeks, months to come you'll hear a purge with the people who caused all this mess just leaving. >> let's hope so. drew, thank you very much. up next, the mysterious disappearance of malaysia airlines flight 370 may finally be solved. price tag alert! is this normal? well, progressive is a price tag free zone. we let you tell us what you want to pay, and we help you find options to fit your budget. where are they taking him? i don't know. this seems excessive! decontamination in progress. i don't want to tell you guys your job, but... policies without the price tags. now, that's progressive.

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it began its work on monday. it vanished march 8th with 239 people on board. it was supposed to fly to kuala lumpur. they believe the plane crashed when it ran out of fuel. the cnn special report "vani "vanished: flight of 370" begins right now. >> it's one of the greatest mystery of all time.