he says iraqi forces are in full control in baghdad. hagel is speaking now. get the latest on the situation live from baghdad at 7:00 p.m. eastern. for now, i'm ana cabrera. "smerconish" begins right now. welcome to the program. thanks for joining me. ebola hits home. the battle moves right here to new york city, where tough new screenings begin today at jfk. but will that really do any good? i've got my doubts. i'll ask an expert and if you want a friend in washington, you know what they say get a dog. that was harry truman's advice. president obama has two dogs. so he's got two friends. even members of his team are taking pot shots in tell-all books. is all fair in politics and publishing? and finally, smoke 'em if you got 'em. the battle on a ban over smoking in the military.

lets get started. this week, america saw its first ebola death and a slowly rising panic that's triggered government action. a stricter screening for ebola begins today at new york's jfk airport. fears about the disease have led to several bizarre incidents, including this, a guy sneezes on a plane, and then he joked that he had ebola. watch the result. >> i've done this for 36 years. i think the man that has said this is an idiot. and i'll say that straight out. if you hear me, that's fine. i want you to keep your wits about you. we have people coming on. we have all been watching the news. they look like they're in a bubble. and a one-day walkout by workers who clean the planes. they say they're not being protected from potential exposure to ebola. mary schiavo is former inspector general of the d.o.t. now an attorney for transportation

accidents. she says it's not possible to fully defect planes. is this window dressing? >> it's not entirely window dressing. we can't put the health of the american public at the mercy of temperature checks. but there is much more that has to be done to keep people safe. and as far as i can tell, other than the cdc putting out guidelines, aircraft workers, cleaners, et cetera, haven't really been given the trainig or any equipment to do it. >> but here's thomas duncan, the first death, we hope not the first of many. he arrived asymptomatic. so that which is going into effect today at american airports would not have prevented his arrival, nor that which followed. >> right. right. and that's why, you know, eventually, depending upon how the outbreak and if there is more spread in the united states. for 150 people a day that are arriving from those countries to the united states, compare that with the 18 million passengers. so one has to ask if it wouldn't

make more sense to, you know -- to eliminate the 150 travelers from ebola zones rather than putting 547 airports, 106 are international ports. i mean, that's a lot more screening than could potentially be necessary if they did restrict the travel from -- for 150 people a day. that decision has been made so what they have to do is beef it up and do it right. the problem is, by the time they screen the people, the airplane cleaners will have been on and off the plane. >> let's revisit that decision. in other words, you're advocating that instead what we should do is impose a travel ban from those west african nations most affected by ebola. why aren't we doing that? >> well, because, you know, we're a nation -- it's in the constitution. we praise travel. we want to leave the travel open. even the cdc has said, although it's not their job, they said they're worried about the economies of those three countries. i don't think people are focusing on how few travelers there are.

and that it would be more sensible and more efficient to do that. but the country has already made the decision, and the decision was to allow travel to continue but to screen. and i just think the economies of scale are vastly skewed when you do it that way. >> okay. so today someone flying into jfk is noted to have, from a west african point of origin, is noted to have an elevated temperature. now what do we do with this individual and how concerned are you about the ability of the faa and cdc to work together in this regard? >> boy, have you hit it. so far, the faa has punted to the cdc. in fact, the faa put out a press release saying it's up to the cdc. the cdc has said they will conduct the screenings and if someone has the elevated temperature, they will do the questioning. and they will have seclusion rooms or quarantine rooms where they can decide what to do. but as you and i know, if someone -- if someone is sick and needs to go to the hospital, they don't have a lot of ability to detain people, quarantine people, et cetera.

and we're about to head into two important seasons, one bad, one good. we're heading into flu season, and thanksgiving and christmas holiday season and peak travel seasons of the year when people will be traveling with children, as well. so that poses a lot of problems for the cdc on retaining and detaining people. and i think that is probably where we run into problems with false-positive. it's not going to work for long in the holiday season. >> mary, one additional question. let's assume that today someone arrives at jfk, their point of origin was a west african nation affected by ebola. they're noted to have an elevated temperature and consequently there is a process now that gets followed. what becomes of the airplane? what becomes of the tray tables and what becomes of the blankets, what becomes of the pillows? we don't have a definitive finding. all we know at this point, someone just got off and they have an elevated temperature. what are we now going to do with regard to the plane and people charged with cleaning it? >> well, by this point, the plane has gone on to its next assignment, next flight, et

cetera. the cdc said if there are bodily fluids, they have to clean it. but the problem right now is federal aviation regulations have absolutely no requirements in them about cleaning the planes. and right now the tray tables aren't wiped, seats aren't wiped, arm rests aren't wiped. so by the time this is determined, that plane has done its 30-minute turn or whatever is off on its venture. so they have to put into play some way to detain the plane. and that hasn't been done yet. >> mary schiavo, thank you as always. >> thank you. now i want to turn to a story that sparked outrage around the world. spanish authorities euthanized a dog belonging to a nurse's assistant who hack stricken with ebola. the mixed breed dog named x caliber was killed wednesday out of fear it might spread ebola, a fear that my next guest says is misplaced. peter cowen is an associate professor of epidemiology at north carolina state's college of veterinary medicine. he has advised the cdc and world

health organization on transmission of diseases from animals and the cdc itself tweeted it's working to develop guidance for the u.s. pet population. dr. cowen, did x caliber have to die? >> there has never been a known transmission from dogs to humans of the ebola virus. so we really could have learned a lot by, you know, trying to move in another direction with this animal. >> why couldn't the dog be quarantined, like understand is the case with the husband of the nurse in spain who tested positive? >> we needed to learn whether that woman had transmitted ebola to the dog before we even know the next question, which is can the dog then transmit it to others. so once the dog is euthanized, we never get an answer to that. and we really need answers to these questions. you know, when we study the ebola virus, we study it mainly in humans, and we do a little bit of work in wildlife to find

out that bats and other chimpanzees and other animals are at risk. but we really need to take a one health approach and study it among all the spectrum of animals. >> dr. cowen, thank you so much for your time. >> you're welcome. up next, tough times at the white house with crises from ebola to isis. americans seem to be losing faith in president obama. is anybody on his side? also ahead, how an accused cop killer has evaded a police manhunt in pennsylvania's woods for a month. a former navy s.e.a.l. tells us how he's getting that done. [door bell rings] ♪ [door bell rings] [phone rings] hello. heh. heh. heh-he-he... t-mobile's is the first national network to give you wi-fi calling. now every wi-fi connection works like a t-mobile tower.

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kentucky. >> did you vote for president obama in 2008-2012? >> this election isn't about the president. it's about making sure we put kentuckians back to work. >> did you vote for him? >> i was actually a delegate for hillary clinton. >> so you're not going to answer. >> i don't think the president is on the ballot as much as mitch mcconnell i want him to be. >> former members of the president's team are taking pot shots like secretary of defense, leon panetta. of course, it's nothing new for form former staffers to kiss and tell but doing it while the president is still in the white house wasn't done, at least not at this rate. is the president alone? i'm joined by a democratic strategist and senior adviser to priorities usa action. also crystal wright, editor and blogger for conservative black chick.com. paul, if you were working, running the allison lunder began

grimes campaign, how should she answer it? >> obviously, you don't want to make the election about obama, but the fact you're eating up air time with that gaffe shows that was not the right answer. i mean, i think the thing to do is -- say, yeah, i took the lesser of two evils, like a lot of americans. i'm disappointed in that vote but more disappointed when mitch mcconnell votes against minimum wage, votes to take medicare and make it a voucher program. make it about mitch. i think that's the political consultants -- this political consultant's preferred answer. >> crystal wright, when is it appropriate for a confidante of a president to finally write their memoir? doesn't loyalty demand you wait until the president, he or she, is out of office? >> i would love to hear what paul would say to that question. because i don't remember folks who served in the clinton administration, you know, any time while president bill

clinton was serving, and then they left the administration writing these awful, you know, critiques on the president. i think it's unprecedented to have two former defense secretaries in the middle of president obama's second term basically say his foreign policy was almost nonexistent. you had bob gates who said that he had a contempt for the military. he didn't want to deal with afghanistan. and now, of course, we saw what leon panetta said, that the president acts more like a law professor and doesn't have any passion for leadership. and that has left us with a mess in iraq and syria. so when i look back on president bush, president clinton, i just don't remember staffers coming out in -- with this level of a critique. and i think what it says is that how bad and things have gotten for president obama is really democrats have lost confidence in him. when jimmy carter -- >> let paul respond. >> wait a minute, real quick.

>> is this unprecedented? >> jimmy carter who knows about failed foreign policy has come out and country teekd president obama. that's really not something that promotes confidence from anyone. paul, go ahead. >> well, sadly, there's lots of precedence. i worked for president clinton. i've written five books about politics, none about my time with president clinton. but one of my best friends -- i hate to bring this up. really one of my closest friends in my life. george stephanopoulos did write a book about president clinton, i think way too critical. so did bob reich, labor secretary, when bush was president. scott mcclellan. nobody closer to president bush than scott. an old pal from austin time, press secretary. during his presidency, scott wrote a scathingly negative book. and i will say at least from my own sort of consistency, each time, even when george wrote his book and scott against bush, because it was wrong. not because it's factually

false, i don't know, i wasn't in the white house. i think because it is disloyal. people like gates and panetta -- leon is a personal friend. these are impressive public officials. they serve their country with honor and distinction. but they should wait for their memoirs until the presidency is finished. it would be better, because it requires reflection. >> i want to ask you about the cover of the "rolling stone." as you know, paul krugman has written -- and he says this is what a successful presidency looks like. paul ba gala, is this what a successful presidency looks like? >> i think there is no question. i think history is way kinder to president obama than some of his former cabinet officers. absolutely. just pick -- first off, general motors is alive, and osama bin laden is dead, as joe biden famously said. absolutely true. both very important. we have no american automobile industry but for barack obama. okay? beyond that, we have i think a pretty good wall street reform bill, excellent health care

reform, which fdr tried and failed. the deficit which my conservative friends have been screaming about as they took my boss's surplus and drove into a deficit is down from 10 point gdp to 2.8. >> kristin wright, something else krugman wrote. he said obama delivered less than supporters wanted, less than the country deserved, but more than detractors acknowledge. how about that last part. obviously i know you don't believe this is what a successful presidency looks like. how about the last statement from professor krugman, where he essentially says the guy doesn't get any breaks, from those who are his opponents. >> i don't know how obamacare is delivering more than the president promised. he said, hey, you know, i'm going to bring health care to the majority of americans, and if you like your health care, you can keep it. and that was a disaster. and back to, you know -- we were initially talking about with the candidate, allison grime running against mitch mcconnell. she won't even utter obama's

name because we know the failed rollout of obamacare is exactly why so many democrats are running away from this president and can't even say his name. and i would say this to paul. george stephanopoulos and scott mcclellan were not secretaries of defense. i agree with you, folks should wait until after they serve the president of the united states before they critique. >> wow, on that happy note of agreement, we're done. paul bell agoa, crystal wright, thanks. i have to take a break. when we come back, an accused cop killer hiding in the woods pore months. how has eric frein managed to evade police for so long, and are they any closer to catching him. also a new law in california that would allow family members to take guns out of the hands of relatives who could be potential mass killers. financial noise

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authorities have been searching for a month now for suspended cop killer eric matthew frein. he disappeared into the pennsylvania woods after an ambush that killed corporal ryan dixon and wounded alex t. douglas outside a pennsylvania state police barracks in blooming grove. the search is in a five-mile area in monroe county where supervisors have cancelled halloween trick or treating and the annual parade. i'm joined on the phone by joseph cohut, a staff writer for

the "tribune" and is all over this story. you have reported there have been four potential sightings thus far. after they think they have seen him, why don't they immediately en circle and move in at least with dogs. >> i think they do. the problem, though, is that the terrain is incredibly difficult to move through. i know i was there yesterday, and we took a little bit of a venture and it really is as difficult as they have been saying. the brush is so thick in places where you literally need to get down on your hands and knees and crawl through it in order to pursue. so though they may see him at 75 to 100 yards, that's a pretty significant distance. when you're dealing with this type of terrain. >> is the perimeter sealed? is there an opportunity for him to get out at some point if he attempted to do so? >> well, based on my experience, when they have a possible sighting of him, the best one

that comes to mind most recently was sunday at a tree nursery. they have very, very hard perimeter. they have troopers with heavy weapons stationed every few yards from each other and that could stretch on for quite some distance. a couple of miles. and in addition to that, they have s.w.a.t. teams that sweep through the area where he was seen to try to flush him out like they're trying to flush out deer towards the perimeter. they have numerous helicopters that are circling overhead. so they do make quite significant and pretty dramatic attempts to apprehend him when they have a sighting. but like i said, the terrain is very dense, very difficult to move through. so -- >> joe cohut -- >> they need to be careful. >> thank you so much for your reporting. so how has eric matthew frein managed to evade police for so long? my next guest has some ideas. he's cade courtly, former navy

s.e.a.l. and hosted "surviving disaster" on spike tv. cade, how can the guy survive for a month being en circled by laugher without the ability to fire his weapon, because if he would have fired his weapon to hunt, he would have drawn the attention of law enforcement? >> i'll tell you what. the region of the poconos he's in, 67,000 acres, 100 miles of trails, the guy has plenty of water, plenty of opportunity for food. plenty of opportunity to hide. i mean, and the biggest thing is based on the temperature. you know, mid 70s, it's not dropping below mid 40s. this is stuff that a boy scout with some average training is going to be able to do with shorts and a t-shirt. >> what happens then when the seasonal temperatures? because i imagine the guy can't light a fire for the same reason he can't fire a weapon. >> which is interesting, because some of the places they found him, he's actually lighting fires. so here's what happens. nobody wants this to go into

november but in november average temperature is going to start dropping below freezing. and so what do you have to do in order to survive? you need to be able to get a water source within two to three days and you need to be able to stay warm. and if that happens, either you set up shop near a place where this guy is going to be able to get some water or start using thermal imagery to find out where he's lighting a fire to stay warm at night and the thing that he's got against him is this is one man who has been on the run, unlimited law enforcement who keep resupplying, rotating, we're going to find this guy. it's just a matter of time. unfortunately, based on what this guy, you know, his -- i don't know, his crazy mental movie is probably going to be a shootout. >> final question. the concept of posse komatatis would prevent the s.e.a.l.s from getting involved. hypothetically, if the s.e.a.l.s were involved, would you wait him out or be moving in now? >> if it was up to me, we would

go in aggressively. look, unfortunately, this isn't, hey, this is somebody that's missing, everybody get online and try and find them. this is somebody that can shoot back. if you're sending in the s.e.a.l. teams, absolutely, we're going to aggressively hunt this guy down, and if it's five square miles, this guy is dead by tomorrow. >> cade courtly, thanks so much and thanks for your service. >> sure. >> i have to take a quick break. when we come back, california's new gun law intended to stop the next mass killing before it happens. can it work? also, friday night lights out. a high school football team season cancelled over allegations of shocking abuse by players. what is it about america's game and scandalous behavior? what th, they think salmon and energy. but the energy bp produces up here creates something else as well: jobs all over america. engineering and innovation jobs. advanced safety systems & technology. shipping and manufacturing. across the united states, bp supports more than a quarter million jobs.

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california governor jerry brown signed a law this week that would allow concerned family members to petition a judge to take away guns from a relative that they fear may commit a violent crime. it's the first law of its kind in the country and meant to prevent mass killings. but will it? i'm joined by the man who introduced the legislation, california state assemblyman dos williams. also john lott, author of "more guns, less crime" and founder of the crime prevention research center. okay, dos, would this law if it had been on the books prevented those horrific killings in isla vista? >> we are not prescient people, we can't look into the past and know that for sure. but there would have been two june terse junctures where this

could have been prevented and there are more suicides this law could prevent. >> you know a criticism of the law, and i'm sure john will mention this -- i'll mention it before he gets to it. potentially, you're seizing someone's weapon. they would say in violation, perhaps, of the second amendment, before they have had the opportunity to have a hearing. that's the way the gvro works. right? >> that's right. it's just like a domestic violence or spousal or a stalking domestic order. and unless you think that domestic violence orders are unconstitutional, this should be constitutional. and, you know, let's face it, the worst thing that would happen if somebody got this wrong is someone would lose their weapon for 23 days. well, i view that as negative if they are innocent. the worst thing that happens if we do nothing is we lose lives

forever. and so the due process in this law allows someone who is the subject of a gun violence restraining order to go to a judge and get a hearing, and get their weapons back if they are not a danger to themselves or others. >> john lott, what of that argument, the argument that says this is work, this framework in a domestic violence capacity? >> well, i don't know, i think this is quite different in a number of ways. you already had the power to -- for police to go and take somebody in for a 72-hour psychiatric evaluation. what this does is it cuts the psychiatrist out of the loop. basically, if a police officer has a reasonable belief, he can go and with a judge take away this person's right to be able to go and defend himself for some period of time. if somebody is a danger to themselves or others, surely you can go and put them in some type

of situation where they're locked up and taken out of that possibility of doing harm to others. but i don't see how this would have stopped the isla vista case there. you know, if you really think somebody is a danger, that person killed three people with knives. you should go and lock them up, rather than just take away a gun. here he planned it for two-and-a-half years in advance. >> john lott, i've often heard from nra advocates and second amendment purist who is say guns don't kill people, you know the tag line, people do. it's the mental health, not the weapon. and it seems to me the california initiative at least is seeking to do something about the mental health aspect of this. no? >> well, you already had -- be able to do with the mental health. if a police officer, sheriffs deputies, went to the person's home, if they believed he was a threat to himself or others, and they didn't believe that, but if they had believed it, they could have taken him in for a 72-hour psychological evaluation. they didn't do that.

what this does is this takes the psychiatrist out of the process. why? what's the gain from taking psychiatrists out of the process and evaluating what is somebody is a threat. >> dos williams, respond to that argument by john lott. >> this does not take psychiatrists or psychologists out of the process. in fact, what it does is it means that we're not just going to rely on law enforcement to recognize the first warning signs. often family members, especially spouses or other people living with the person who is either homicidal or suicidal and mentally unbalanced, are the first ones to recognize that there may be an issue. . >> they could do that anyway. >> this allows them -- they cannot do that. they can only go to law enforcement. this allows them to go to a court and ask the court for a gun violence restraining order. >> gentlemen, thank you. >> if that court -- if that

judge finds that they are -- are a danger to themselves -- >> family members before went to the police. the police didn't find it in the isla vista case. here you're going to allow the second cousin's wife to be able to go and bring these types of charges against somebody. >> gentlemen -- >> completely unrelated people. >> i wish we had more time. dos williams, john lott, thank you for being here. i have to take a quick time-out. coming up, extremely disturbing allegations of abuse by students on a high school football team. now the season is cancelled and anguished parents are asking, how could it happen. ? also, smoke and mirrors. why a congressman says the proposed ban on the sale of tobacco on military bases is an assault on freedom. big day? ah, the usual. moved some new cars. hauled a bunch of steel. kept the supermarket shelves stocked. made sure everyone got their latest gadgets. what's up for the next shift?

ah, nothing much. just keeping the lights on. (laugh) nice. doing the big things that move an economy. see you tomorrow, mac. see you tomorrow, sam. just another day at norfolk southern.

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it helps keep dentures firmly in place. with a smooth formula, free of flavors and colorants. so you get a closer feeling to natural teeth. new fixodent plus true feel. fixodent. and forget it. a scandal over allegations of brutal hazing is shaking the community of sayreville, new jersey. reports that freshman football players were routinely bullied and sometimes sexually assaulted by older players in the locker room. it comes from nj.com. i have to warn you, this is very disturbing. the unidentified parent of a player in the program says, quote, in the darkness, a freshman football player would be pinned to the locker room floor, his arms and feet held down, by multiple upper classmen. then the victim lifted to his feet while a finger was forced into his rectum, sometimes the same finger shoved into the

freshman player's mouth. football season in sayreville now cancelled. meanwhile in the nfl plenty of anger over professional bad behavior. ray rice, the adrian peter son matter dominated the headlines. is the classic american sport in jeopardy? joining me now is breitbart sports dan flynn, author of the "war on football." dan, you wrote that book a couple years ago, and i'm wondering, what do you think now? now that you see this confluence of factors, is the american past time threatened by all of this news? >> i think it's always been threatened. and every year seems to be something different. if you look back a few years ago, it was suicide. there was this live push in the media that nfl players killed themselves at exaggerated rates. the reality was, when the federal government looked at it, the institute for national safety and health, they found that american men actually killed themselves more than double the average of nfl veterans. last year, people talked about nfl players dying young.

and that same study, that same study by the federal scientists, they found that the nfl players -- the men in society actually were dying at almost double the rate as men in the nfl. so they were outliving their peers, having better health outcomes in things like cancer, heart disease, diabetes, respiratory illness. basically, that men who are on the field, they're going to outlive the guys watching them on the stands. >> so here's what i'm hearing you say. when you really delve into the data, and i did a segment on this two weeks ago, where i looked at some of the data with record regard to brushes with the law in compared to society at large. i get the point you're making. nevertheless, might suburban moms be listening to all of this news and information and saying to their son, hey, you're not playing football. you're playing soccer. you're playing some other fall sport. and in the end, might that impact the direction of the game? >> yeah, i think that's already happening. particularly at youth football. you see these scandals with nfl

players. but where it's really impacting is not the bottom line of the nfl. the they're as rich as they're ever going to be. it's youth football. they lost 6% of the player population last season, 6% the season before. and some areas of the country, there is not going to be any youth football left if this keeps up like this, because there is a constant barrage against the game. we're seeing that now play out with domestic abuse. and i think everyone is pretty much outraged over the nfl's handling of ray rice. but the reality is, no one is hearing, nfl players have an arrest rate at about 13% of society's arrest rate, according to 538.com. the statistics are pretty consistent with domestic abuse, as well, that it's about half of what the domestic abuse rate is in society. and so it's not that there is an epidemic of domestic abuse in the nfl. there's an epidemic of coverage of domestic abuse in the nfl. so we get a perception. >> the question, should the sayreville program have been cancelled for the year? >> yes, i think the police

should get involved. because this is sexual assault. >> i agree. dan flynn, thank you for being here. >> thank you for having me. after a quick break, smoking in the service. the pentagon is considering a ban on the sale of tobacco on bases and ships. and that's got at least one congressman, well, smoking mad.

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you've seen the warnings on cigarette packs, right? one of the strongest simply says smoking can kill you. so it shouldn't be much of a surprise that the pentagon is considering a ban on the sale of tobacco products on military bases and ships. at least one congressman is really angry about the idea. listen to california republican, duncan hunter. >> we sleep in the dirt for this country. we get shot at for this country. but we can't have a cigarette if we want to for this country, because that's unhealthy. well, i'll tell you what. if you want to make us all healthy, let's outlaw war. because war is really dangerous. >> i'm joined by nick gillespie, editor in chief of reason.com and reason tv. you agree with the congressman? >> i agree that smoking is dangerous, and i would love to see war banned. but, yeah, generally speaking, actually, i think, you know, military guys have enough to deal with, and if they want to smoke, they should be allowed to. as long as it doesn't interfere with their ability to do their job. in general, i'm not a fan of employers, whether it's the government or the military or reason foundation that employs

me, getting in the inner life of their employees. >> i always love to probe the sometimes rigidity of libertarian thought. smoke 'em if you got 'em is what you're saying. but what if the fact it's $1.9 billion in health care and productivity they are costing us by smoking. then we're burdened. >> i agree. and this is where it's the pentagon is the one pushing for this. this isn't, you know -- it's not some kind of left wing liberal senator or something like that. it's the secretary of the navy and chuck hagel is looking into it. so it could be that, you know, they say, you know what, i'm balanced. this is a problem and for the same reason we dictate what tattoos you can, what hair styles, how tall, short, fat you can be, we're going to cut out smoking. but at the same time, i do think that, you know, there is a rush to kind of say, okay, you know what, you're an employee, and especially in the military, we own you, and we're going to remake you. and that's problematic, because there is a lot of morale problems in the service.

>> how about cvs? cvs says we're getting out of the tobacco business. i think they want to be our primary health care provider, and that's probably -- whatever the motivation. you cool with that? >> i think any private employer should be able to do whatever they want. cigarettes are legal. this is one of the things that we need to keep in mind. it's not like these are illegal products. i think cvs -- i would say i applaud any business that states a claim to saying this is what we're going to be doing and how we're going to do it. at the same token, i think cvs is getting kind of easy publicity point. because, in fact, they're not getting rid of a lot of the negative stuff. they're not adding fresh vegetables and actually not adding those kind of in-care treatment places, you know, kind of like demand time treatment, which would be great. and that actually, you know, i would love to see that. i'm not saying they should do it. but -- >> i can still go in and get a big soda? >> that's right. >> maybe find -- >> beef jerky. whatever. up the ying-yang. so, you know, these are all problems. but with the military, the

ultimate thing is, like, what is the mission of the military? it's to defend the united states. and, you know, can soldiers do that when they're smoking? you know what, if they say no, we can't, or you can't anymore, that makes sense. >> okay. nick gillespie, thanks. great to see you here, by the way. >> thank you. after a quick break, islam by the numbers. you've heard some of the heated arguments lately about islam and violence. when we come back, the facts. big day? ah, the usual. moved some new cars. hauled a bunch of steel. kept the supermarket shelves stocked. made sure everyone got their latest gadgets. what's up for the next shift? ah, nothing much. just keeping the lights on. (laugh) nice. doing the big things that move an economy. see you tomorrow, mac. see you tomorrow, sam. just another day at norfolk southern.

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islam is the mother lode of bad ideas. those words from author sam harris last week on hbo's real-time with bill maher touched off a debate with actor ben affleck and heated exchanges in the blogosphere. listen to just a bit of it. >> when you want to talk about the treatment of women and homosexuals and free thinkers and public intellectuals in the

muslim world, would i argue that liberals have failed us. we have been sold this meme of islam phonia, conflated with bigotry toward muslims as people. >> right. >> and that's intellectually ridiculous. >> hold on. are you the person who understands the officially codified doctrine of islam? you can say this is -- >> i'm actually well educated on this topic. >> it's gross, it's racist. >> it's not -- >> but it's so not. >> it's so not. >> it's like saying you're a shifty jew. >> that's not what we're saying. >> you're saying if you want to be liberals, principle of peach, we are endowed but our forefathers, all men are created equal. >> we have to be able to criticize bad ideas. >> of course. >> why is this the mother lode of bad ideas. >> sam harris says those muslims who threaten us are a handful of

extremist who hijacked a peaceful religion. he and bill maher argue those extremist views are much more widely held among muslims than most of us have acknowledged. i wanted to learn more. so this week i read harris' 2004 book, "the end of faith," which has since been rereleased in paper back. harris argues, quote, on almost every page, the quran instructs muslim to despise nonbelievers and prepares the ground for religious conflict. consequent consequently, he says those who believe the quran and what it represents are going to be sympathetic to radical islam. bin ladenism, if you will. some regard that as incendiary hyperbole, but some very strong polling data demands we have the conversation about the teaching of islam and its impact on followers. consider this. the "washington post" published the results of a series of polls this week that asked muslims questions about radical practices, and it's concerning.

a 2013 pew poll asked about honor killings, the practice of killing someone for bringing shame to the family or community. take a look at the results. when the question asked if honor killings are permissible, only 24% of people in afghanistan said that honor killings are never justified. but 74% think an honor killing could be permissible. in iraq, the number is 22% who say never justified. 71% believe an honor killing could be justified. how about when it comes to stoning adulterers to death? as the "washington post" data pointed out, the practice is supported by strong majorities of muslim respondents in pakistan, afghanistan and territories. another question, death for apost ates? majorities in six countries say if you leave the religion, you deserve to die. in afghanistan, the number is 79% who believe that. now, it's true that majorities of muslims in western countries

do not share these extremist sentiments. but harris' point was that we can no longer comfort ourselves in the belief that we're threatened by a handful of outliars. they are both critical of all faith. in fact, harris' solution is to argue that muslims need to ignore most of their cannon in the same way he says that christians have learned to do so. after all, the bible also promotes violence. here's what i think is most important. that we not condemn an entire group for the sins of some of its members, in this case an entire religion. that we acknowledge the vast majority of muslims who don't embrace radical or violent thinking but acknowledge data, suggesting that extremist views are held by more than an abhorrent few followers of is m of islam. we musn't be afraid to candidly, respectfully discuss this relevant aspect of the most challenging issue of our time.

if we of hope to turn the tide against jihadism, we first need to understand it's depth and what drives it. thanks so much for joining me. don't forget, you can follow me on twitter as long as you can spell smerconish. i'll see you next week. you're in the "cnn newsroom." i'm ana cabrera. thanks for spending part of your weekend with us. let's get right to what's happening in iraq this weekend. government officials are desperately asking for something the u.s. president says will not happen. u.s. combat troops fighting isis on the ground. officials in anbar province west of baghdad say isis militants are close to controlling this entire territory and show no signs of stopping. here is their warning. without u.s. military help, isis will rule a huge, unbroken portion of iraq and syria. u.s. defense secretary chuck hagel speaking in chile just

moments ago agreed that anbar province is in trouble. but he says the city of baghdad is not. now hagel specifically said that baghdad is in full control with the iraqi forces, despite many reports that isis militants are just eight miles from some parts of the city. let's go live to cnn's ben wedeman. ben, you are there in baghdad. chuck hagel says the city is fully in iraqi military control right now. do you see anything there that might suggest otherwise? >> reporter: well, it does seem to be fully in iraqi military control to the extent that's possible. but what we did see this evening is two car bombs going off, and two baghdad neighborhoods which left more than 40 people dead, many more wounded. so yes, at the moment it appears that the defenses of baghdad are working, that iraqi forces are able to defend the capital. but there's