wasn't what i needed to do. and, it just worked out perfectly that, that this opportunity allowed me to get there. >> i'm happy for you. >> thank you, anderson. >> thank you for sharing that. not an easy thing to do. well that is it for "roots, our journeys home." for full versions of the pieces you have seen here and photo galleries, behind the scenes video and more. go to cnn/roots. did our past not only tell us how we got here but they also give us a sense of who we are and what we'll become. we certainly hope you have en y enjoyed learning about our stories as much as we did. >> i'm anderson cooper. thank you for watching. tonight true crime. what if everything we believe about serial killers is wrong? from ted bundy to jeffrey dahmer to david berkowitz to john wayne gacy y. even in the movies, psycho, silence of the lambs, white men,

loners, now two cases are changing what we think we know. seven women dead in indiana. two in virginia. the suspects in each case, african-american. tonight we'll ask the experts. what is going on. i will talk to the heartbroken mother of one of the victims. plus a dramatic recovery of an ebola victim. how he beat the deadly disease. also, tensions heating of in ferguson. what happens itch the officer who shot -- if the officer who shot michael brown isn't indicted. a live report. the hollywood star everyone is talking about tonight. do you recognize her? we've got a lot to get to this evening. begin with the latest on what may be the case of a serial killer in indiana. poppy harlow live in hammond, indiana. in addition to africa hardy, police have found six more women's body in abandoned homes. do authorities believe there are more bodies elsewhere? >> good evening, don. they think there might be. i mean this has been absolutely traumatizing to this community

in gary, indiana. what you have, 43-year-old darren vann confessed to strangling, 19-year-old, africa hardy to death in the motel 6 room here friday. led police, actually went in the squad car with them from abandoned home to abandoned home where they found six other bodies of female victims age 19 to 36. that he has police say confessed to killing. all of them. they are concerned thee hey mav killed more. he hasn't said yes i did. given what they found. they are concerned. they're scouring the thousand of abandoned homes in gary and hammond, indiana. we went out with them on cadaver dogs on their search today. listen to what they told us. why did you come here to search for possibly more body? >> weep just want to cover all of the bases. because -- we just want to make sure this gentleman didn't leave anything unturned. in other word there could be, poe ttentially more body. we don't know for sure. we are checking.

>> one of the big concerns is all the abandoned homes. the body, most are found in abandoned homes. >> yes. unfortunately, the, the individual that committed these crimes, his mo was to put people in abandoned, the dead women in abandoned houses. >> this is a man with a long criminal history, dating back at least a decade. we know now from police documents that in 2004, don, he was arrested and thrown in jail for actually trying to light his girlfriend on fire. with the a gasoline tank and lighter. in 2009, convicted of aggravated rape in texas in jail for five years for that. still though, texas authorities list his risk rating as low. don? >> interesting. poppy. are police saying why darren vann is giving them so much information about where the bodies are? >> it is a great question. why would he do that? you know he says, don, that he was really surprised that he

must have "messed up" in the last murder of have riff africa for police to find him quickly. is he trying to strike a deem with prosecutors. a death penalty for an option in murder conviction. does he want a deal? we don't know. he doesn't have legal representation at this point. from what the authorities here are telling us. he is pouring out information as i said. even going in the squaud car wih them off to the homes. at this poins at, all day they not find any other bodies. back out there tomorrow with cadaver dogs seeing if there are other body. and one important point. you have the mother of africa hardy one of the victims coming on. this is a man who the sheriff avenue department says they checked on once. one time, in september, just to make sure that he was living where he was supposed to be living, they said that's all that is required by law. what they also told us is that they can't make arbitrary checks because there are just so many

sex offenders that, they can't just check on someone randomly. it begs the question, is the system working? >> uh-huh. good question. poppy harlow, hammond, indiana. 19-year-old africa hardy moved off to indian fr nua from color. laurie, i can only imagine listening to the report. so sorry for your loss. incredibly hard to listen to that. extremely brave to be talking with me tonight. how are you doing and your family? >> well, don, we are hanging inasmuch as possible. the outpouring of love from the community, friends, family, people that i have never, never imagined just reaching out. we are holding on best as possible. yeah. >> as you are listening to poppy

harlow's report. saying they can check on some one once. saying they can't harass someone. do you think thing could have been handled differently by authorities? >> uh -- the justice system the way it is, it is right now, it's -- there is a lot to be said for that. if he was a registered offender in the state of indiana should have been checked on more frequently as well as all the other people who are registered. just to check on them once. that's seems null and void, actually. you know, i want to know -- why, why is he spilling his guts out? why is he? why is he telling so much information? is he thinking that's going to give him a, a bargain, a better

bargain? >> a deal. when it comes time. >> a deal. >> for prosecution. according, according to the police chief, police chief said, it was just something he wanted to do. that's all i can say why he was telling them. showing them where so many bodies were. can we get back to your daughter, please, afrikka left home in colorado three months ago. tell also but your daughter and what was she like? >> my daughter was your normal 19-year-old girl. and she didn't move back to indiana. because we really had, we had no ties to indiana. she moved back to chicago. but my daughter was, she was -- she was a unique individual. she can walk into a room and just light it up with her smile and her laugh and just her presence. afrikka never met a stranger. she loved everybody. that was part of her problem.

she was a little naive on trusting people. and she was talented. she could sing. >> there is video of her singing. we understand sunny whe was qui wonderful singer. >> yeah. she could write you a poem. she could write a short story. her mind just sponged everything. she was -- sunny whe was a frie everybody. i, i am reading on her, you know, her facebook wall. and just people, you know messaging me that afrikka touched me, people are saying she touched me. helped me, you know -- sunny was there for me when i didn't have anybody else. >> did she ever, ms. townsend, did she ever mention anything was wrong, when was the last tomb you spo time you spoke to her? did she say anything was wrong? >> the last time i spoke to her, messaging me, sending me

pictures. afrikka loved to take pictures. she never, her three months out there never said anything was wrong. she never gave me any inclination that he was doing this or, think about doing this, or, or, anything like that? >> did you know about this, backpage.com, where authorities say she met him on this, backpage.com? >> see, i, i had no idea that, you know, afrikka was linking up with this other girl and doing this. i had no idea. otherwise, you know, i -- you know, you tell your children, you know don't, don't do that. you know, but, and -- they're going to do whatever, whatever they decide that they want to do regardless. >> yeah. >> i had no idea. that's not the way i raised afrikka. she wasn't raised up like that. >> well, lori townsend you are again ape ve

again are a brave woman. our thoughts are with you and your family. thank you for sharing your daughter's story here on cnn. okay. >> thank you. >> thank you. when we come right back, what does the evidence tell us in the indiana case? cat in put a serial killer behind bars? and plus miracle recovery how an nbc cameraman beat ebola. who is this woman? why is everyone talking about her tonight? we have the inside story coming up. you want to cut through the noise

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>> are the murders in indiana the work of a serial killer? what does the evidence tell us? joined by a forensic anthropologist, and author of "bones never lie" and criminal profiler and author of "killing for sport" inside the mind of serial killers. very interested to talk to you about the cases. first to you, kathy. darren vann suspected in the deaths of seven women in northwest indiana. how will the police attempt to forensically link him to all these women though he is showing them where they are, they still need to link him, right? >> yeah, just because he is confessing that's not enough. when you g o to court you will have to have physical evidence tying hem to the viim to the vi scenes where the bodies are located. they're going to be looking for anything they can fine. great if they could find bodily fluids to get dna from him. they're lacking for perhaps fibers from his clothing or home. they're going to be looking

perhaps in his home for something that's come from the victim. anything that is going to physically tie him to the women. >> uh-huh. pat, have to ask you this. i have seen a lot on social media. some people have been writing abut it. the assumption is that it is rare to have a black serial killer, is that correct though? >> well, it, that myth has been around. i can't even, decades. and i think it all started with, people like ted bundy who got so much publicity. the white serial killer. a lot of fbi early interviews with white serial killers. i think black serial killers didn't get much pub his team. one reason. another reason is, that in the past african-americans have been, larger amounts in the city. inner city there is more crime. therefore, investigations weren't as complete as the they could be. and, and so they just didn't get the play. that's really what it comes done to. there is no gene, racial gene that makes you a serial killer. simple fact, if you go to any

place in world you can find a serial killer of any culture. >> looking at suspect jesse matthew in virginia. this case. and think about atlanta child murders as well. that was, considered a, serial killer who was african-american. kathy, what exactly is a definition of serial killer? >> well, someone who kills in series. it's not a spree killer who kills a lot of people at one time. but someone there is an interval between one victim and the next victim. >> so spret kithe spree killer, killer some one may kill a succession of people but do it and stop. a serial killer does it over time. correct? >> a nm weumber of labels on ma ki killings, over a period of tomb or one incident. pat could better answer that. i work with the victims once the victims are found. anthropologi into play.

the victims were not found right away. like in virginia, remains are skeletonized or women in abandoned homes for any period of time. decomposition, there is going to be, hate to talk about this, following on this, there is scavenging, rats, dogs, cats, anything lick that. so these bodies could be in very bad condition. and then you have got to go to skeletal indicators. or dental record itf you are fortunate enough to know who your victim might be. pull dental records or dna. >> kathy, let me jump in, you mentioned her. this soon after the strength it takes for a family member, mother to come on national television and talk about her daughter. unbelievable. she could do that. since you said you speak with victims and deal with victims all the time. >> right. i deal with the families of the victims, yeah. she was so poised. so brave. so, and so nonbuilt nonbitter.

very touching. >> pat, let's talk about hannah grament. investiga -- graham. trying to discover if the skull and bones found saturday in an abandoned home are those of hannah graham graham. she disappeared, september 13th. how long will it take for results to come back and determine if it is hannah. >> it varies from every jurisdiction what they have to do to determine that. the chances of it being her are very, very high at this point the we are all expecting they're going to come back and be her. we could be surprised. but you know. i want to go back to one thing we are talking about. with the, afrikka any mother. saying, talking this guy being out on the street. and yet he was already a convicted felon. convicted rapist, and violent rapist. he got a low risk put on him. absolutely outrageous the a violent rapist is a serial rapist. he will do it again. just like no such thing as a person that jumps out.

rapes and kills a woman just for the fun of it doesn't think about doing it again. if you find one woman dead in the ditch and not a boyfriend. you have a serial killer out there whether you know what he has done or not. one problem in the justice system is recognizing that a violent psychopath who committed this kind of crime is some body you can't monitor. can't put him in society. let me see. what you going to show up on a sunday. how you doing, how's the barbecue? he is having a barbecue. when in you are a violent rapist and serial killer doesn't mean you are killing 24 hours a day and they're going to catch you. >> got to go. thank you, pat brown. thank you. kathy. really appreciate it. off awe thank you. off awe bre . >> breaking news tonight. great news for the nbc cameraman who contracted ebola. he has been declared free of the virus and will leave the hospital in nebraska tomorrow. elizabeth cohen. this is good news. what do weep kn know about the

cameraman's recovery? >> don, he had a inning tiff test. done by the cdc. two negative tests. don't want to discharge you until they had two a couple days apart. he wasn't in the hospital for long. two weeks. it really is testimony to how quickly he caught this disease. he caught it, he took his temperature. said, whoa. something is wrong here. he got treatment early. he got a blood transfusion from dr. kent brantly. early. and he also got an experimental drug, early. as you can tell. i keep saying early. such a crucial part to surviving ebola. >> does this give hope to two dallas nurses being treated now for ebola. >> right. thin k especially to nina pham. upgraded from fair to good. at nih. he caught her disease early. had one high temperature reading. and, she was, you know, she, got herself to the hospital within an hour and a half. was admitted. and weep kn know she got a bloo

transfusion. we know less about amber vinson. reports she had been feeling sick a couple days. then there were reports that wasn't true. we don't know anything about the treatment that she its getting. there are more question mark for her care >> quickly, elizabeth. new travel rules. any one to the u.s. from liberia, guinea, they're going to have to go through one of five main airports now, is that right? >> right. there are five air ports where they do extra special screening for people from west africa. jfk, newark, o'hare airport, dulles. they take your temperature. ask you questions. they don't want people flying into any other airport beside the five. sag you have got to fly into one of the five if you ridge nated in west have ri -- ridge nated in west africa. how they will police this. are they looking at everyone's passports. they want to make sure if you have come from west africa. you are getting the special

screening. >> thank you very much. elizabeth cohen. >> thank you. >> up next, a live update from ferguson. the missouri governor is taking action. enough to calm the situation if office willson is not indicted. of evolution. e the absence of improvement. and the enemy of perfection. which is why you can never stop moving forward. never stop inventing. introducing the mercedes-benz gla. a breakthrough in design, aerodynamics and engineering. because the only way to triumph over decay... is to leave it in its own dust. ♪ on my journey across america, i've learned that when you ask someone in texas if they want "big" savings on car insurance, it's a bit like asking if they want a big hat... ...'scuse me... ...or a big steak... ...or big hair...

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welcome back. the missouri governor, will it calm unrest by the shooting. live in ferguson for us this evening. more than 70 days after the protest, the governor spoke out to address concerns there. what did he have to say? >> well, he talked about putting to get the ferguson commission. several people would be appointed to that commission. he talked about the three things that commission was supposed to do. number one there would be a beg study that was independent to look at underlying causes both economic and social causes of the unrest that has perm yaeate through ferguson over time. he talked about the commission

would be able to address each of those when it comes to law enforcement when it comes to education. when it comes to poverty and jobs. and then lastly that it would have to put those recommendations together and try to solve those problems. the governor made no bones about what he sees as a racial divide. and, some of the issues here. the underlying issues here. that he sees. where unfairness seems to permeate the community as well. and he talked about his thoughts on what black families go through and what families with police members go through. i think of the mother of an african-american teen teenagerer as she kisses him good by each morning. hands him his backpack and watches him head off to school. knowing that he might never come home again. she lives with that fear every day. i think about the wife of a cop. as she kisses her husband good-bye. hands him a cup of coffee

watches him drive off to work knowing he might never come home again. she lives with that fear every day. that is the world we live in. that's what we are hear from many side. trying to touch on both sides of this particular situation here. but what he said that upset people in the, in the protesting part out community, is that this commission will not have anything to do with looking at an independent look at actual investigation into what happened when officer darren wilson shot and killed michael brown. he said that investigation is on going. separate. this commission will have nothing to do with that. >> this commission really has no teeth there, and, and, so, what, i want few know what you are hearing from the community, sarah, what happens if darren wilson is not indicted? >> you know hearing a couple of things. a lot of the protesters we have

spoken with throughout the many weeks. we are now in the 74th day of protests that have gone on every single day since august 9th. what some people are telling us and these are quotes. this place is going to blow. we are going to try to shut it down if we do not get the, the decision that we want. there are also people in the community who are out protesting on a nightly basis who say we are going to be peaceful. there is going to be a reaction. a big peaceful protest. so, there are two divergent idea on what should happen. but certainly there is can sern. that things are going to get worse before better, don. >> sarah sidner for us. thank you. want to talk about the situation in ferguson with the lauts auth "hands off of my gun, defeating the plot to disarm america." quite a cover. this gun is bigger than you, girl. want to ask you about this. you are from st. louis. following the situation closely in ferguson. >> yeah. >> what happens if the officer is not indicted?

>> i'm concerned for, for relations in my city. i lived in downtown st. louis. i didn't live in the burbs. i lived, i can see the arch from my backyard. i lived five blocks over from where the shooting took place on shaw. i was just down the highway from ferguson the i have relatives who still live in ferguson. my best friend lives in the shaw neighborhood. so i am really concerned. because this is, has been, tension in st. louis has been building for a long time. if they're going to have an investigation, as to what caused it. we need to looking at the leaders. we need how to look at state leaders. need to look at the leaders in missouri district one. my district. jay nixon. it is fine. he is going to create a commission. where is jay nixon been? >> that's the criticism. i worked at ktv out there. lived there. right about the leadership, a divide quite some time. take some time to get over. your new book called "hand off my gun." does this, you know, we saw the

police officers there, many said they were over militarized. is this a case, are you concerned, should ask you about the, police state? >> yes, absolutely. >> in your state? >> i have been super critical of the police state. and super critical of this particular situation in missouri since 2009. let me take you become to 2009. when you had missouri highway patrol. the same department that was involved with keeping the peace and the investigation after the michael brown shooting. they create aid report with jay nixon. missouri governor jay nixon's name at the top of the report. going after individuals, political dissenters, libertarians, conservatives. tea partiers if you will. they were i didn't fig them den potential domestic terrorists. they were talking about people, i also have a problem with it in the ferguson community. problem with militarized policen st. louis city. >> thank you, don't go anywhere.

we will continue to talk about that and talk, really take a whole another turn here. talk about an a lister you may, may not recognize. but you should. her story when we come back. dana is going to talk about it. ...the getaway vehicle! for all the confidence you need. td ameritrade. you got this. the r. word. i hate the word "regularity." yah, i want good digestive health... ... but i don't want to talk about "regularity." i don't even want to even think about the "r" word, much less say it. benefiber conveniently helps support good digestive health and... maintain the "r" word.. benefiber is clear, taste-free, and dissolves completely. you know what benefiber tastes exactly like when you put it in water?

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a lot to talk about to night from unrest in ferguson to an uproar over a hollywood actress. vann jones and dana lash. talking to dana group in st. louis. you and i spent time in ferguson. what is your take on what dana just said. >> funny, i think, good people on the left and right really agree that, it is overly militarized police response made things worse. worse than that. i was really disapin theed to ha -- disapin tpointed the govern came out put forth a toothless, phony baloney commission that is going to study the problem, the issue. the really issue where has he been. the local prosecutors have thrown this case to a grand

jury. which is never din the cases. the grand jury hasn't been charged. they never tell the grand jury what they want. never happens. they are kicking the can down the road. gross prosecutorial misconduct. >> mark your calendar. you and dana agrae ee on someth. >> where is jay nixon. a wallflower. sort of waiting in the wings. he was trying to figure out. whether he could be the vp runningmate or run for senator. he is, he is worried about his bottom line. he does want to spend political capital. >> what do you think, what should he have done barring saying, there is an indictment. what could he have done? >> i will tell you. very, very simple. whan local prosecutor, local case becomes this hot. prosecutor is handling it right. he has the the right under the constitution in his state to apent appoint a special prosecutor, not a grand jury nobody heard of before. a special prosecutor. the fact that he refused to do that is why you are going to

have unrest. he can put together a phony ba lenny commission if he wants. nobody watching closely will be fooled. he can appoint pay prosecutor. not leading. he will not get away with the phony baloney commission. >> quick point. when we talk police state. we have to ask who is running the state. of a reason why it is a toothless commission. nobody wants to implicate themselves. >> all right. completely switching gears here. we wanted to get this in. because everybody is talking about this. renee zelwegger, virtually in recognizable in l.a. last night. here she its. that was her, last night. when some one sent me the pictures, i said, that's not her. what do you think she did? >> i don't know. i don't, i am really, this is where i am really bad. i am really bad in looking at somebody interesting to figure out. i will lose the it all the time.

i am horrible at this. is it botox. i don't know. she, she is, i think she, she wants to do what she wants to do. itch she wants to do botox or like, i have no idea. i am looking at her face. i've couldn't till you. she can do whatever she wants. who are we to judge her? who are we? >> i completely agree with that. when the day comes i'm going to get as much work as possible. not to the point where people don't recognize me. >> i am concerned don, listen, some people -- have what's called an addicting to these kind of processes. i don't know if she does or not. seem to be pretty extreme. some people try to fix the outside to deal with pain on the inside. they do it again. do it again. >> she was a beautiful lady. >> 14 million of these procedures done in the united states this past year. 14 million. we have 300 million in the country. tie am concerned about this kind of stuff. >> wikipedia says she is 45. can you believe. wikipedia says i am 5'6."

>> wikipedia is not allowed as evidence in courts. >> i want to ask you about new material that cnn, received, the brawl the palin family back in september. let's take a listen. >> gray hair. who wants to push my little, my 20-year-old sister. i'm going to defend my sister. she is 20 years old. the guy comes out of nowhere. pushes me on the ground. takes me by my feet, in front of everybody, come on you, [ bleep ]. come on you [ bleep ]. get the [ bleep ] out of here. i don't know this guy. i have never seen this gin uy iy life. >> to be clear. no files charcharges filed. >> you are listening to some body who grew up in the ozarks, don. come on. i look at it like this? did they win the fight? the story, not that they lost the fight, is it. no it is not.

>> so. does this affect the palin, so-called palin dynasty at all? do you think, van? >> well you, know i think it adds, more color to the same kind of you, know family die naming problems you have had. sarah palin. people forget. she had the democratic party shaking in our boots in 2008. she cam out. gave that speech at the convention. hands down one of the best convention speeches not by a woman by any body. people were running for the hills. she managed to tear apart her own legacy both with bizarre tweets. weird stuff, family drama. but, you know, i can understand why this young woman would be upset. >> i am confused. at first she was so stupid. that's what i heard from the left. so cutie. katie couric asks her a question, what she reads for her news at the start of the day. so i've don't know what narrative it is. either she is so stupid.

everybody made fun of her, megan mccain, john mccain. van, the first time i heard any body. we disagreed. >> now it can be told. now it can be told. >> i have got to run. i have got to run. >> don't know if she is brilliant or whatever it is. what i look about sarah palin. one thing i like is that sunny wi -- sunny will answer every single question you ask. she will stand there, answer. many don't do that. they go to talking points. thank you, dana. van jones. appreciate it. when we come back a brutal terrorist attack, american kid. now the horrifying story is dramatized on the new york stage. a lot of people are up in arms. the story is next. [ male announcer ] at northrop grumman,

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i won this 55 inch tv for less than $30 on dealdash.com. visit dealdash.com for great deals. and start bidding today! sad news to report. ben bradlee, "washington post" editor immortalized in all the president's men has died at 93. here is a san from the movie with jason robards playing bradl bradlee, and woodward and bernstein. >> how much are you going to tell me about deep throat? >> how much do you need to know? >> do you trust him? >> yeah. >> i can't do the reporting for

my reporters which means i have to trust them. and i hate trusting anybody. run that, baby. >> the movie, incredible. incredible man. bradlee had been suffering from alzheimers disease for several years. president barack obama awarded bradlee the presidential medal of freedom just last year. meanwhile in new york protest over all things, of all things an opera. tells the story of leon klinghoffer, a cruise ship passenger murdered by palestinian terrorists in 1985. almost 30 years later the controversial opera, the death of klinghoffer is at the metropolitan opera here in new york. a lot of people are angry.

joining me alan dershowitz, author of "terror tunnels" on ebooks. they're talking about what happened aboard the akchille lauro. you are an opera fanatic. >> the fourth. >> at lincoln center last night? >> of course. >> tell me your reaction? >> the opera is more propaganda than it is art. a sympathetic portrayal of palestinian terrorists. imagine if they've did an opera "the klg illing of martin luthe king" and portrayed his killer or ku klux klan in positive ways. people say bad judgment. the met had the right to put this on. nobody should interfere with their artistic freedom. we have the right to protest artistic judgment in putting it on because it really glorifies helps explain and, wants people to understand what would motivate somebody to kill an innocent man in a wheelchair.

the opera doesn't make him killed because he is jewish. they portray him as a loudmouth who is kind of putting down the palestinian movement. killed for that reason. off awe y you didn't like it. >> thought it was mediocre opera, beautiful music. >> it was insulting? >> deeply offensive morally. tries to create comparison between the holocaust and displace of palestinians. between terrorists and their victims. you know, art has the right to be filled with mistakes. >> doesn't mean you have to like it. the right to protest. tell me about the audience reaction before and after? >> positive. much too enthusiastic. standing ovations for an opera that was mediocre. the audience was applauding the courage to put on this opera. well, you know it doesn't take courage to offend jooews and israel.

let them put on an opera, portraying mohamed in a inning tiff winning -- negative way like the cartoons. >> outside protesters? >> lincoln center blocked off the protesters. protesters talking to an empty plaza. i wanted to listen. i wanted to listen to both side. i was banned. told move to the side. >> a former mayor of new york, rudy giuliani among the people protesting against this. i want to read something from ilsa, lisa klinghoffers wrote a letter. terrorism can not be rationalized can not be understood, can never be tolerated as a vehicle for political expression or grievance. unfortunately the death of klinghoffer does all this and sullies the memory of a principled sweet man in the process. do you understand it? >> the death of klinghoffer instead of the murder of.

he don't have a heart attack. he was shot in the head. thrown overboard because he was jewish. we don't know what his views in israel were. he was kkilled because he was j. >> tough moments. which slavery i come from. you come from tra diagnosdition slavery. often inspires moments of art. >> century later. the killing of martin luther king, beheading of the people by isis, you don't want to see an opera justifying the killers and presenting the killers perspective t they have the right to make the judgment. we have the right to express our opinion about the judgment. >> exactly. that's america. >> that's right. metropolitan opera didn't allow us to listen they've constrained the marketplace of idea last night. that was wrong. >> thank you, alan dershowitz. appreciate you joining me here. when we come back one of the american prisoners free from north korea. a woman hopes her brother may be

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arrested in north korea in may for leaving a bible at a club for foreign sailors has been released and is on his way home. meanwhile another american, kenneth bay is still in a north korean labor camp.

his family is hopful over the news. joining me is terry chung, kenneth bae's sister. your brother kenneth bae in jail. jeffrey fowle has been released. how are you feeling right now? >> lots of mixed emotions. you know, happy for the fowle family they got to have the reunion the i've couldn't help but really wish, kenneth was on the flight out of north korea. >> no doubt. i want you to take a look at what kenneth told cnn back in september. >> i am serving a 15-year sentence right now. i have been going back and forth from hospital to the labor camp, the last, year and a half. what i can say to my family and friends is to continue to pray for me and also to ask them to -- to, continue in the effort and getting me released here. >> terry, when did you last hear from your brother? can you update us about his condition? >> you know that interview was

the last time i heard any news of my brother. so it has been -- you know, almost a month and a half. >> as you looked at the video a month and a half ago, could you tell anything about how he looked had he lost weight? did he seem healthy to you? >> no he lost weight again after being in late bore camp several months. as you know he had been shuttled between the labor camp and hospital. his health has been in decline. we were concerned that despite his poor health that he was back in the labor camp again. >> before the interview how were you receiving updates about his health? >> through the swedish embassy in pyongyang, who is able, who tries very hard, but you know has given occasional visits with kenneth. >> so the state department, terry, has, has used this as an opportunity to call again for the release of your brother and matthew miller.

what if anything from this, from this state department do you want? have you heard anything? what would you look to happen? >> i am thankful for the on going efforts of the state department. i know they have been trying very hard behind the sanz to quietly advocate for kenneth and try to secure his release. and i would just ask that, you know, continue to -- to make sure that this case its getting the, the priority that it deserves. you know we are coming upon a two-year anniversary. so, that's, just when i think about that i just, my heart breaks. i can't believe that we are still here. you know that he is still there. after two years. and -- you know that's, that's a fact. and that's just -- you know that, the third thanksgiving that we are spending without him home. and you know we want him home for the holidays. >> that puts it into perspective. probably a better more direct question i should have said what would you look to see happen

diplomatically in your estimation? >> i don't know what it is going to take if i know that kenneth has been convicted of, you know, of their laws. and has been sentenced to their prison. we know that some sort of legal amnesty has to be requested and given before he can be released e we understand that. i don't know what it will take. the message has been before that a high ranking envoy need to come and seek that amnesty from the united states government. and i think the -- the challenge is trying to figure out who, who and what, and what that, enjoy should and could look like. and i know that there has been efforts being made behind the scenes by the united states government. and i just hope that both sides see the urgency of the situation because, you know, two years -- american citizen, north korean labor camp. that's not acceptable. we need to see him home now. >> thank you, terry chung.

appreciate you joining us. yes, we would look to see him home. thank you. >> thank you. >> that is it for us tonight. i'm don lemon. thank you for joining us. i'll see you back here tomorrow night, 10:00 p.m. eastern. live coverage continues now at the cnn center in atlanta.