this is "cnn tonight," i'm don lemon, everyone. breaking news. a major development out of ferguson, missouri. details in a moment. and our other big breaking news a new terror warneding for thousands of federal government buildings across this country. i'm going to talk with glen greenwall who says the only surprise about attacks on the west is that they don't happen more often. also, launched failure. a nasa control rocket explodes into a fireball moments after liftoff, and the president is being briefed at the white house. the very late et details on that. right now to breaking news out of a city council meeting in ferguson, missouri tonight. joining me now, cnn's justice reporter evan peres.

evan what is the latest news in the development in ferguson? >> reporter: don, the development is that the police chief of ferguson, missouri, tom jackson, is expected to step down as part of an effort to reform the police department there. now, the announcement is not expected to come until about next week. most likely. and it's all part of an effort by the local officials to bring down some of the tensions there. as you know, don, it's the scene of demonstrations almost every night. a lot of people have been callicall calling for the police chief to step down and he's been defiant so far but officials know this is part of an effort that when the grand jury announcement comes down, whether or not there are charges again officer darren wilson in the shooting of michael brown, this is one of the way to show the public they're trying to reform the police department there. >> evan peres, according to your reporting, the police chief is tom jackson. >> reporter: correct. >> in ferguson krrt that's right. >> according to your reporting, under the proposed plan, st.

louis council would ask the john behlmer take over the management of ferguson the police force once chief jackson leaves. chief jackson said he was not going to step down but see this out, ride this out. what changed? >> reporter: you know, he's still talking to us tonight saying that he has not been asked to step down. that he is still the man in charge, but this is also something that he knows we believe that is coming, simply because it's part of the effort there to keep the peace. don, as you know. the st. louis county police department has much better resources to be able to manage the situation there. it's not without precedent. the police -- in a couple neighboring town, in the same way, were taken over by the police department, by the st. louis county police department, simply because some of these small towns don't have the resources to be able to do this. >> evan peres, stand by.

i'm going to need you here but i want to go to cnn sara sidner on the phone in ferguson. yi i'm not sure if you have any reaction there in ferguson. i'm sure it will come as a surprise -- may not come as a surprise to a lot of people that this is happening? >> reporter: it hasn't happened. we want to make it clear. the police chief said to us in the city council we were in today that he is not planning on stepping down. we also asked the mayor, nair 'noles, pointedly, there are sources, and some of evan's repo reporting, that you are putting a plan in place, and, of course, his answer was no. the mayor would have to have conversations with the chief of police to have him or force him to resign and his words were, look, people have been saying that for months, and asking for him to step down for months but we've stood by him this entire time, and there is no change on that. that's the kind of push back

that we are seeing here. both the mayor of ferguson and the police chief both denying, both saying that it's not happening. you know, we don't know what we're going to see. we do know, though, that we've sat and talked with both of them in times past. in the last couple of weeks high a conversation with them and we asked, when you step down, if that was the best thing for the city? the protesters aren't only asking for the police chief to step down. they're asking for the mayor as well, in some instances, to step down. and they both said we would think about it, it's something we would consider, but at this time we don't feel that is necessarily the right thing to do, and that's the kind of language that they've been using throughout. >> sarah -- >> reporter: at this time they're saying, no, there are no plans. >> as i'm looking at the reporter coming from evan peres, our justice correspondent. evan is still with us as well. right? as i look at this reporting, sarah, i'm wondering, is this enough to tamp down some of the

anger among protesters? will this be viewed as the beginning of some sort of at least movement in this case? >> reporter: yes and no. we've talked to a lot of protesters over these many weeks that we've been here, and the a answer to that is, yes, people will see it as movement, were ut will it stop and completely quell people's frustration? absolutely not. many people have said to me, it's too little too late, but it is a step forward. a small step at this point, because it's gone on so long, but it's too little too late and the real reaction and what they really want to see is the arrest of darren wilson, who with the way that the laws work, is still in the justice process. the process is still going. >> okay. >> reporter: and, you know, so that is one of the things that you're going to hear from people, that it's too little too late, don. >> stand by. do we still have evan peres with us? is evan still there? evan, let's -- you dan interview with the attorney general. his quote, we have an ongoing,

have a practice investigation into the ferguson police department and we are looking at a whole variety of things including a leadership of that department. the practices of the department engages in, nature of the interaction between the department and the community as opposed to serve. if reading between the lines there, saying, looking at the leadership of the department. that would mean the chief of police? >> well, yes, don. i mean, and this is also -- we have to think about it this way. this is part of a larger discussion between the local officials, the county, the state officials, and the federal government. the federal government has two investigations into this situation in ferguson. one is focused on the police department and the practices there. and then the other is into the shooting itself. now, you know, there are some people down there in ferguson who would like to dissolve the police department completely and have it completely be managed by the county police, as has been done in some of the other

municipalities's has is not in the works just yet simply because this federal investigation is still ongoing but something you could perhaps see coming down the line. >> and bring in a cnn common date perp joining me on the set. what's your reaction? >> not surprising. a little later than we expected. my concern, this is a primer for a grand jury decision. preparening the crowd giving them a semblance of justice in the wake of something that will feel unjust. >> with all the leaks and information that alleged through sources this may be a primer, but you're not surprised by it? >> not surprised. i actually taught it would happen two weeks ago. and more breaking news now to discussion. that spectacular explosion of a nasa rocket seconds after liftoff. joining me is tom foreman and rachel crane. new video of the launch from a woc chopper in the air when the rocket exploded. look at this. this is an eyewitness. check this out.

>> hmm. >> so apparently we don't have the sound. what are we learning about this xploer explosion? what do you know? >> right now the copiy that launched this says basically they know what you can see on this video, that the rocket starting taking off, they said, and i quote here, some dis'ably of the vehicle. when you watch it closely you can see it basically start to separate at the bottom of the rocket as the explosion begins, then it fell back to earth and blew all parrot. the final explosion was actually triggered by safety officers on the scene, because they don't want a wounded rocket to take off sideway, for example, and fly somewhere where it doesn't belong. the final explosion was actually triggered trying to make sure the thing was completely destroyed but they've secure the ground around the launch facility. keeping everyone away and at first light out picking up the pieces to try to find out what

did happen with this, taking off with 1,300 pounds of food, headed to the international space station and i want to talk about the impact. let's listen to the sound and then i'll continue to question. >> five, four, three, two, one -- and we have liftoff of attar -- antares. ignition at 100%. >> my goodness. rachel, what kind of an impact could this have on space station and future flights? >> well, bill gersimeyer at the conference that happened minutes

ago was intent on saying the astronauts have all the logistics they need on the international space station to last them until next year. we're not exactly sure what kind of equipment, what kind of research equipment was onboard, but we do know that in terms of the food, as you mentioned, there were about 1,300 pounds of food on that cargo spaceship that the astronauts will be able to last until next year with what they have onboard right now. >> and miles, nasa now relies on private companies to get things to the space station. what do we know? we don't have miles. i'll ask rachel. what do we know about the company that launched this unmanned rocket, rachel? >> reporter: so orbital sciences is one of two private companies contracted by nasa to ferry cargo missions back and forth in the international space station. space x being the other one. orbital sciences contracted with nasa is worth $1.9 billion, and this was the third of eight missions that navy contracted them to run to the international space station.

and space x's contract is worth $1.6 billion. these are just cargo missions, though. nasa recently awarded both boeing and space x contracts worth $6.8 billion in terms of, for boeing, and $4.2 billion for -- i'm sorry. $2. billion for space x. $4.2 for boeing. now, those are set to carry manned missions to the international space station. >> right. >> reporter: so we don't know yet how the public's perception of the private sector's ability to carry these missions to the international space station -- >> raging crane, thank you for your reporting. miles o'brien, both of you stick around. when we come back, much more on that rocket. tom foreman, thank you. called you miles o'brie be. appreciate it. talk to two form are astronauts and much more from ferguson on the breaking news that the police chief is expected to step down. we'll be right back.

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more now on our breaking news. the police chief in ferguson expected to step down. sara sidner has more. what do you know? >> reporter: we talked to imhad and told him about evan's reporting, having several sources saying they are making plans for the police chief to step down. we talked to the mayor in the midst of a council meeting and. >>wards he answered our question and said, flat out, no, and let

me let you hear what he said when he asked are you getting pressure from the federal government or from others to asked police chief to step down? >> reporter: have you gotten pressure from -- >> -- haven't said for him to step down but we've stood by heim this entire time. so -- >> reporter: there's nothing. >> there's no change on that. so -- >> so sara sidner speaking with the mayor tonight. sara, and tom johnson, the chief in ferguson, has really said the same thing. that he's going to continue to stay? >> reporter: yeah. police chief jackson. we talked to him in person. he did not want to talk to us on camera, but in person he said there is -- i am not planning on stepping down. i am not planning on resigning. he said that to us before, and he said to do us again today. and so i think what you're seeing here is, you know, we don't -- we don't know, but at this point, the local authorities here are being

pretty clear that that is not what they're planning to do. if that changes, i am sure we will let you know. >> all right. thank you very much. we appreciate that, sara sidner. reached out personally to tom jackson and haven't heard back and to the chief of the st. louis county department, waiting to hear back from them. and bring back a political commentator and also others with us. first let me -- is this coming from washington? be honest about it. >> it feels like it. there's so much international, at this point, international scrutiny on ferguson. they had to do something. whether they're right or wrong isn't the issue. it's the appearance of being unresponsive. that's the problem. >> mark o'mara, will this help things out in this situation in ferguson? >> the animosities that existed in ferguson were way before mike brown's shooting, justified or

not. obviously a lot of animosity because of the way the neighborhood reacted. unfortunately the leadership in the police department has to change. if he's the sacrificial lamb to get it started it has to be. fergs han to move forward and it doesn't seem they can move forward with this police chief in place. >> do you agree with that mel robins? >> i do. it's interesting, mark o'mara will agree with me, mark represented george zimmerman and i was there covering it for cnn, and you'll recall that two months after trayvon martin was shot to death, chief lee was forced to resign, and it was one of the things that started to move things forward. so i do think it's important for the future of ferguson that he step aside, but i heard our colleague, marc lamont hill, say earlier that he thought that this might be some of the p.r. moves towards softening the blow in case that there isn't a vote

to indict, and my initial reaction, don, was, holy cow. i wonder if they're getting signaled from inside that grand jury that there's not going to be an indictment and starting to do things publicly. >> there you go. >> -- to try to play this down? >> that's how people on the ground feel. >> and you have covered this on your show yitzhak shams cnn, on thought this is a rush to judgment. i wonder how this plays into this, if the chief does step down next week? >> i view it as total confirmation of the is a spirgs i've had several weeks and spoken pucklily ago. all of those, the "new york times" a week ago, offering leaks in the "l.a. times," leaks in the st. louis post dispatch relative to the african-american accounts support ive of the

officer and the autopsy xugting his arms weren't in the air. as i read the tea leaves, don i have been saying, all calibrated and intended to take the temperature of the community down. i'm convinced we're headed for no indictment in this case. >> does this take the temperature down at all or -- >> oh, no. not at all. >> no way. >> in the 15 minutes as we've been talking about this, i've gotten text after text from local activists and organizers in ferguson saying this infuriates them because it feels lie a p.r. move. i think it will ratchet things it's. it's not a question of right or wrong but how people are feeling. >> i agree with mark. on some level they don't care about the chief of police. they care about michael brown getting his day in court their being justice served. if there's no indictment, in a process of leak after leak andic mooal smerconish has been

talking about it doesn't feel as if justice has been certained. they're looking at an indictment as the only way justice has been served. >> maybe not the beginning of something, maybe it's the beginning of something, instead of it being the beginning of something, you guys think it's a setup to the officer not being indicted, disappointment just as michael smerconish said, reading the tea leaves, mark o'mara? >> yes. i'm frustrated. it seems like a juvenile semiconspiracy to try to appease the black community in ferguson. there should never have been leaked, still shouldn't be leaks. if the chief has to go, so be it, but i'm very frustrated we're letting out the process a piece at a imtoo because it denigrates whatever the grand jury will do, suspect only because of the people that led out leaks ahead of time when they shouldn't.

>> go ahead, michael. >> i think it's going to come down to what the evidence shows and the reaction will be predicated by the facts. i have long said that that which we know about ferguson is outweigh the by that which we don't know. what's going on behind closed doors in that grand jury really ought to be that which holds sway for alls of you. folks in the community and people paying attention on a national level. i'm not going to base my judgment as to whether there's an indictment or not. i'm going to base my judgment as to what was the basis for the decision that led to that call. >> but see, the problem -- i agree. exactly what we should be doing. i think that presume as level of trust in the system itself and because of a lack of transparency because of the leaks, because how the ferguson police department responded initially, the people in the town don't trust the system. they don't trust the justice system at all, primarily, don't trust the law enforcement agency or the police chief, and at a result -- >> hold on a second.

there's a lack of trust-- >> best thing the pross turt did, guaranteed he'll release all of the transcripts of the grand jury testimony. what is the right time, meaning if no indictment is coming out and at least we'll have a wad of evidence to show and document whatever the decision was. >> lack of trust in the system. right? which everyone sort of agrees it's obvious. but then there's due process for this officer. how does one separate the two? because the officer, you know, has to go through the process, whether guilty or innocent, what the evidence shows and all of that, then also a huge tidal wave of people saying we don't trust the police department here. mark o'mara, how do you separate that? >> well, you have to -- i know people get frustrated when i say this. you have to trust the process to a certain extent. if you decide not to trust the process, what's the alternative? if we don't allow it to work, transparent as it will do, we have to. we don't have an alternative to lack of trust.

were have to believe the grand jury will do what they have to do. if it is an indictment, good counsel represent him in front of a jury hopefully in an open court. >> i want to get in michael smerconish's people have been listening to your radio show and you've been talking a lot about the comments from charles barkley and that was big on your show today. play a little, michael, and then your response. >> when you are black, you have to deal with so much crap in your life from other black people. it's a dirty, dark secret. i'm glad the coming out. for some reason we are brainwashed to think if you're not a thug or an idiot, you're not black enough. if you go to school, make good grades, speak intelligent and don't break the law, you're not a good black person. and that's a dirty, dark secret, anthony. i hate to bring black people into our crap, but as a black person, you all go through it when you're successful. >> talking about the seattle

seawks quarterback russell wilson and other team members not thinking he is black enough. what are you hearing from your listeners? >> all right. let me begin by saying, i am a bald, middle aged white guy. so it's very hard for me to assess exactly what's going on in the african-american community on this, but callers overwhelmingly, african-american callers, said, don, there's a lot of truth in this, and what i would throw is is to say jealousy don't know bounds defined by race. there's a tendency, unfortunate as it, for a lot of folks to be resentful when they see people in their own community on the rise. >> 94%, michael. we have your poll up here. 94%. >> unbelievable. >> they agree with him. >> and non-scientific in bold. i love mike smerconish. >> stop it'sstop it. the conversation we had before, i told you, i was -- in harlem at brunch with a bunch of black folks and we read the comments and everybody said the same

thing. >> we rush with different black folks. >> come on! barkley has -- barkley has a point but he shouldn't have said it. shouldn't have said it in public. tom joyner said it to me on the radio. he's right absolutely but should not have said it in public. >> i disadegree with you, tom and even my bald headed -- smerconish. this is snitching. i agree there are people who have a problem with success. >> it's not the overarching problem in the african-american community. >> this comes from this whole body of work called acting white and if black people succeed they compromise and black people think of them as sell-off, not only did social science not bear that out. they're proud of me. they don't say, he act white. >> absolutely. did you put you don't get hate, read the twitter feeds and hear what people say about me and other -- >> not because of achievement. maybe things i or you say but not a culture of pathology or

anti-intellectualism in the black community and not more than any other community. i think charles barkley is peddling the same urban [ muted ] peddled in the speech many peddle and i don't think it's largely true. >> michael smerconish, the last word, since he is the authority on this. >> i hope it's not true, but so many folks have told me it is true and from what i see, in the white community, there's a lot of jealousy out there and it's part and parcel of who we are. all of you. >> when you do well they don't say michael smerconish isn't white enough. >> right. they don't say you're not white enough. right? just call you other things. they're jealous of you but no one says you're not white enough? >> right. >> and i don't find people that say i'm not black enough or you're not black enough, except for maybe because you're bright. >> great conversation. more on the rocket when we'll be right back. er take something. dayquill cold and flu doesn't treat your runny nose.

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more breaking news tonight. disaster for nasa. an unmanned rocket contracted from a private firm explodes six seconds after liftoff. nasa says no injuries or loss of

life. joining me, a former astronaut. mark kelly, you first. when you see the video of the explosion, what is your reaction? what do you think could have kaurzed this? >> well, space flight is a difficult thing to do. launching a rocket presents a number of different challenges. in the video what you see is it's pretty obvious there is a first stage failure. i don't think nasa knows and probably won't know for some time whether it was the engine or something else in the first stage. the first stage providing all the propulsion at that point came apart. >> while you watch the slow motion of this rocket and the cargo and spacecraft, doesn't anything look out of the ordinary? nasa reported the explosion

happened six aekseconds after t launch? >> looks quite normal to me. with the high-speed video and as they start to analyze it, they'll preebl see something, but probably not. they're analyze the data they get on the ground. they get a lot of data every millisecond and the debris. they'll figure out what happened. >> senator nelson, can you tell which part of the rocket this may have started in? no. you can't. and mark's exactly right. they'll do the investigation. i think nasa's going to issue some kind of report later on tonight, but it will take a much lengthier investigation to pinpoint the exact cause. >> uh-huh. so how will the impact of this -- how will this impact us? say operations on the international space station? we know the rocket was carrying thousands of pounds of supplies, including food.

so -- and there were also experiments onboard. how does this affect further space travel, senator nelson? >> it won't. i've spoken this evening to the administrator of nasa general boldin. they have plenty of supplies already on the space station. later tonight another cargo rocket from russia, "the progress" is set to launch. we have the space x rocket ready to go with another cargo coming up in december. they can add to that cargo. so they're not going to miss very much, even though this is a setback. it's one of the rockets, the antares, that takes cargo up to the space station, but they're not going to miss a beat up in in what they're doing and all of the experimentation. >> well, the question is, too, and i'll ask you this as a

senator and then i'll ask mark kelly this. senator, we know there was classified equipment onboard this rocket. so what may have been lost here? >> well, i can't answer that until we know the results of the investigation. but there are plenty of backups to get additional equipment up. if something is lost, it can be duplicated and sent up on a later rocket. >> mark kelly? >> well, don, you know, i could tell you, but that's classified. actually, no. all serious about this, we don't use the space station as any kind of military platform. so when they talk about crypt graphic information, stuff like that, i think it's probably more likely to be part of the rain safety system which is a system that was actually actuated today to destroy the rocket in case of a failure. you know, to make sure it doesn't wind up ober any

populated area. so think initiated the rain safety system today, but to protect that system, to protect it from somebody, say, like a hacker on the ground. it is done with cryptographic economic. that's probably what they're concerned about. i can't imagine that there's something else that was being sent up to the space station. i can't imagine what that would be. >> is this a big setback for nasa and private companies, that they contract? >> well -- so senator nelson talked about how, you know, he talked to general boldin today, and you know, this won't be a big impact, and one of the reasons is they plan for this. the head of the space station program, mike sefferdini will plan in the event we do lose something, but also keep in mind we did lose from critical equipment, some spare parts and also four months of my brother's clothing that he was going to have when he was up there for a year at the international space

station. >> thank you very much, mark kelly and senator bill nelson. we appreciate it. coming up, 76,000 fans at a dep verify broncos game thursday, but one seems to have vanished without a trace. paul kitterman disappeared at halftime. i'm going to talk to his stepson jared, who was with him at that game. that's next. ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ [ male announcer ] great rates for great rides. geico motorcycle, see how much you could save. [ male announcer ] great rates for great rides. decay. it's the opposite of evolution. the absence of improvement. and the enemy of perfection. which is why you can never stop moving forward.

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denver bronc others fan paul kitterman was last seen by his stepson thursday night waiting outside a bathroom at 76,000 sports authority field where the bronc others play their home games. paul vanished soon after that. authorities are revealing the stadium surveillance footage and treating the bizarre disappearance as an active missing persons investigation. i want to go to mark meredith a reporter from kdvr, outside sports authority field in denver. good evening, mark. walk us through what we know. >> reporter: don, as you mentioned, this really is just bizarre. start where it began. thursday night, paul kitterman came down to denver. lives about two hours away, with his son and two other family friends. they were having a good time.

first time at a denver broncos game. at some point during half time, his son left his seat to go use the restroom. he comes back. his dad is gone. at first doesn't think anything of it. maybe his dad went to get a beer or is walking around the concourses, but by the end of the game, he thought it was strange his dad had mot shown back up. they go back outside the stadium thinking maybe he was lost or got kicked out of the stadium for whatever reason. still no sign of him. he wait around. the crowds leave. at this point, tense of thousands inside. by the time it clears out it's like a ghost town out here. that's when they really started to worry and checked with the paramedics, checked with the jails, detox units and no sign of the 53-year-old. a day goes by. they file a missing person's report with the denver police department. that's not uncommon. people can go missing all the time. strange, this guy did not have his cell phone with him. he left it up where he lives about two hours ago and also did not have his car. he rode down with friends. so he would not have had an easy

way of getting around. they couldn't call him, either. that wouldn't have done any good. denver police have been trying to figure out exactly what happened to him by, you mentioned, reviewing the surveillance inside the stadium. five days, no you we still have no idea where paul kitterman is and his family and they are anxious for answers and are looking for any help to find him. >> absolutely. ye hear from a family member in a few minutes. thank you, a reporter from denver. bring in a former fbi agent and criminal pro filer and host of "facing evil." i watch all the time, candice. what paul ketterman's stepson told me just tonight about what he thinks happened to this dad. >> reporter: so authorities are saying that they don't think foul play is evident here or involved, but they're not ruling it out. they say because there's so many cameras and and there was so many people that someone would have seen something, if it

looked the out the ordinary. so what do you think happened? >> i get that. i get that side of it, and, you know, the question, then, to get that footage, when we first talked to them wasn't about looking for foul play on the cameras. it was about finding why, where he went after that. you know? maybe you don't see what happens outside the stadium, but you know where he left, and if something bad did happen, out there related, you can find out where it was at. you know, the direction. all right. i want -- candice and everyone to stand by, because we are hearing now that kitterman has just down found. that is what denver police are tweeting out now. paul kitterman, who disappeared at a denver bronc others game has been found. back to reporter mark meredith from kdvr on the ground now. mark that is coming from the official feed of the denver police department? >> reporter: it is coming from

the denver police department as you mentioned, coming on twitter when you and i were talking a few minutes ago i could see my phone lighting up. just as we got done with o'segment, he was found safe. meaning he is alive. where he's been the last five days, we don't have answers for that. we'll reach out to the family in the next fur minutes. i checked with them an hour ago and still no idea where he was pt word coming from the den e verify police department, he has been found, and he is arrive. starting to work on the story. when i have more information i'll make sure that gets back to you guys. >> absolutely. mark, stand by. i spoke with his stepson this evening and he said, he mentioned what you said, mark. he didn't have this cell phone with him. as a matter of fact, it wasn't that unusual he didn't carry it all the time. he was a rancher. e had liked to be alone. would go out sometimes, and go for long rides but always let people know where he was.

the interesting thing as well is, someone said, you know, in the final moments of the game that they saw him, and, again, this is according to -- according to "the sun" and according to reports. they saw him and he was a little concerned. waiting for his son. looked concern, but had issues with the crowd. he said he didn't like crowds. now the police department reporting that he has been found safe and sound. the question is, again, as you said, where has he been all of this time? >> that is the big quirks and right now denver police have not put oun information. i'm watching my phone to get an idea where that will be. they have always done it on twitter when they have new information, they'll tweet it out. his family were talking about what that we do next. trying to see whether or not he was still trapped in the stadium nap he got into an emergency exit or one of the concession stands. the information denver police are putting occupy on twitter,

he was found in the last few yints, that he a alive and safe. we'll work to figure out where he's been all of these days. >> missing since sunday, according to the denver police department. official twitter site, paul kitterman has been found. we'll continue to update you on this breaking news as well as the other big story. we'll be right back here on cnn. i lost my sight in afghanistan, but it doesn't hold me back. i go through periods where it's hard to sleep at night, and stay awake during the day. non-24 is a circadian rhythm disorder that affects up to 70% of people who are totally blind. talk to your doctor about your symptoms and learn more by calling 844-844-2424. or visit my24info.com.

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more breaking news now. a new terror warning tonight for thousands of federal buildings across the country. the department of homeland security is orders beached up protection for more marne 9,500 buildings and their 1.4 million daily visitors. the move is being called a precaution in the wake of the attack on canada's parliament. i want to bring in a man who says we in the west are fooling ourselves that terrorism is a term that means nothing but justifies everything. lynn greenwald, co-founding eder it of the intercept and author of "no place to hide" and he joins me now. thank you for joining us. right to the united states federal buildings under increased security measures tonight in part because of last week's attacks in canada.

does that surprise you? >> it doesn't surprise me at all. in the last six year, just under president obama y alone the united states has dropped bombs on seven different predominantly muslim countries including the philippines, making eight. the united states proclaimed itself at war 13 years. you cannot go around the world dropping bombs on people, imprisoning they are without charges, torturing people and expect no one will want to bring violence back to your shores as well. that's the nature of war. >> you say the same about canada. in war 13 years, a terrorist attack, you write, it is always stunning when a country that has brought violence and military force to numerous countries acts shocked when someone bring as tiny piece of that violence back to that country. yet for many it is still shocking that violence comes to north america, to the u.s., and to canada.

>> well i mean, i think the reason why it's shocking is twofold. one is we seem to think it's perfectly normal and okay for the middle east and for parts of asia to have a never-ending stream of our bombs dropped on them, but somehow north america is sacred soil, and that that's the one place bombs shouldn't be dropped, and wars don't work that way. you don't get to go around, as i said earlier, dropping bombs on people all over the world and think your precious soil won't ever be the target of violence. the other thing that's important to realize that we pay a huge amount of attention whenever there's a single person killed or two people killed in one of these attacks. our government has killed thousands pop thousands of children and women and innocent men and we never focus on them. we don't know any of their names the way we do our own, don't hear from their grieving relatives so it's easy to think that our government isn't bringing violence to other parts of the world, but it is, and i think it's important for us to

realize that. >> you make it sound as if the -- that it is justified, that you a of these acts are justified. how do you justify acts of violence? >> well, no. i don't actually, am not addressing the question of justification whatsoever. i'm addressing the question of causation. if somebody smokes four packs of cigarettes a day and contracts emphyse emphysema, i everybody what caused it, it doesn't mean i'm justifying it or celebrating. if you want to about rational citizen and decide whether you want to support your government bringing violence to other parts of the world one of the things you have to accept is that violence will be brought back to you. that's a reason not to do. how can we justify violence? the united states is do more violence in the world than any other country. we're bombing more countries, invading and occupying them. supporting countries like israel and saudi arabia that bring enormous amounts of violence in the world. if you ask how can we ever

justify violence we ought to begin with our own government and ask them that question. >> and i want to address, speaking of another writer, harper and glen greenwald are wrong to name them in a simplistic monocausal way. he goes on to say it is more likely mental illness that isis and other groups are really appealing to disturbed individuals preying on disturbed individuals rather than causation, as you say. >> well, i was in canada that whole week and the government claimed, insistently it was ideology that caused these attacks. there was a video apparently left by the ottawa shooter as the canadian police revealed, in which he said he was acting in protest of canadian foreign policy in that region. seen it over and over. people accused of terrorism. why did you try to blow up a bomb at times square? same thing. because i watched you drop bombs

from drones and kill innocent women, children and men, and i felt it was my only recourse. they say it over and over. >> glenn greenwald, thank you. >> appreciate it, don. thank you. we'll be right back. ugh... ...heartburn. did someone say burn? try alka seltzer reliefchews. they work just as fast and are proven to taste better than tums smoothies assorted fruit. mmm... amazing. yeah, i get that a lot. alka seltzer heartburn reliefchews. enjoy the relief. means keeping seven billion ctransactions flowing.g, and when weather hits, it's data mayhem. but airlines running hp end-to-end solutions are always calm during a storm.

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tomorrow night i'll talk exclusively to one of them. mukpo is virus-free and telling his story of survival right here tomorrow night on cnn. thanks for watching. i'll be back here tomorrow night. our coverage continues out in. "a.c. 360" starts right now. good evening, thank you for joining us, we have breaking news tonight. a long awaited nasa launch, began normally duff and ended just seconds later like this. watch. >> and we have liftoff. antares, third mission, the iss. main engine's at 108%.