scientists hoping solar energy would power it. it's landing in the shade and isn't getting enough sun light. >> we'll see you at 10:00 eastern. >> "smerconish" is starting for you right now. hello and welcome to the program. great show planned for you. we're digging down on important stories with terrific guests. america's favorite dad, bill cosby accused of rape a and sexual assault. an alleged victim joins me. cosby denies the charges. i'm an attorney, i intend to get answers. ferguson, missouri, nerves are raw, people are buying guns, the town holding its breath. we talked about what could happen if there is no indictment. what happen there is one? i'll ask the cops. and political war in the nation's capital, the president versus the republicans over immigration. my take, there's got to be a better way and i think i have one. and the mayor of london is here, on his new book about my

favorite historical figure. winston churchill. i say he defeated the nazis but now i wonder if he is partly to blame for the implosion in the middle east. all that and more. i hope you'll stick around. we begin with america's favorite dad bill cosby and the women who say he has a darker side, one of them barbara bowman was a teen actress when she says he raped her. my take, i'm a lawyer, i'm sympathetic to victims. details of her story. it's a bad week for cosby. on monday he tweet add photo of himself inviting folks to mean or caption him. he got a lot more than bargained for. super dad and for the jelow commercials was com barded with posts about past accusations of rape and sexual assault. the whole thing was deleted but not before lots of people had taken their shots. now one of his alleged victims

barbara bowman is speaking out. she will join me. in "the washington post" this week she wonders why she's had a hard time getting any one to listen to her story. for years cosby has denied these allegations through his attorneys. but this morning for the first time he addressed the charges, he appeared on national public radio with his wife camille. >> this question gives me no pleasure, mr. cosby. but there have been serious allegations raised about you in recent days. you are shaking your head no. i'm in the news business, i have to ask the question. do you have any response to those charges? shaking your head no. there are people who love you who might like to hear from you about this. i want to give you the chance. all right. >> barbara bowman heard bill cosby deny these before.

she will continue to tell her story. it's the most serious of allegations you could ever lay at someone's feet. bill cosby raped me. so let me ask you some questions. you said in the washington post i'm certain now that he drugged and raped me. were you less certain then? >> when i was 17, 18, 19 years old, and i was experiencing what i was going through there were times that i really did not know, and i was not certain at all, due to mental manipulation, mind control, the controlling circumstances that i was in. but i am very certain and there were times that it was -- it was convoluted, certain times it was quite direct. >> you certainly couldn't control the first time if you were drugged. but you could control the second. why return to close proximity to bill cosby if you believed or suspected that he raped you? >> i can't say that it went in that succession but what i can say is that i was in a position where i was in new york city, my

agent had brought me here, and my agent and bill cosby were subsidizing my apartment and my acting classes. and i was in a very, very controlled environment. i had no outside connection to the world, i had no friends. it was a very, very slow, very methodical, very calculated situation, very slowly breaking me down. i was terrified of my agent. and i was terrified of bill. and i was being groomed to tolerate and deal with what was coming my way. now, when i did speak to my agent and tell her, she did nothing about it. and i felt very unsafe and if i had told her his allegations of me that i was making up things and i was not acting appropriately, accusing me of being drunk if there were times that i questioned him like why am i in this shirt, or what

happened here? i would get reprimanded and debrated and told you were drunk. maybe you don't drink so much. >> you were 17. >> 18 by now. and knowing that he was going to say that and accuse me of that and tell my agent that, it was devastating to me. and i was not drinking and i was not doing anything other than what i was supposed to be doing and that was being a straight clean cut kid going to acting classes, coming straight home. >> help me understand something else i can't get over. you wake up at a particular morning or series of mornings, you believe you have been raped. why not call the police? >> who was going to believe me? i went to a lawyer. he laughed me out of the office. after telling two trusted individuals that i was being molested violated and raped by another trusted individual, who had made it very clear that he was very safe, that i must be vulnerable, he was teaching me

how to tear down my insecurit s insecurities, telling me i had to give him 100 pertz. trust him like my own father. if i didn't that i was somehow not fulfilling my end of the bargain, that i'm not going to be successful actress because i've got walls up. it was kicking in in my head. i told my agent. she did nothing. i trusted her. she was all i could tell. when i went to the lawyer he laughed at me, at that point i'm so broken down and so viciously attacked mentally, physically and spiritually, that i said this is never going to go anywhere. nobody's going to believe me that dr. huxtable is molesting me. >> did you ever have, barbara, consensual sex? >> absolutely not. never. >> and pardon the salacious nature of the question but if it's your word against his word is there some salacious aspect to bill cosby, some defining

characteristic that you could say hey, i can tell you this about him and that's how you know it really happened. >> absolutely. and if he'd like to take a polygraph i'll take one. >> what is it? what is the detail? >> nothing that we can talk about right here at the desk. >> okay. for many years people haven't, you say taken you seriously. they are taking you seriously now. >> they are. >> why has it taken this and what is it that now people want to hear what you have to say and are giving you more credibility than they have in the past. >> it gained momentum quite a lot since the daily mail article came out that was beautifully written by lesia naft. to get down to the real details. i felt safe too. to be as open as i could be. and that opened a lot of doors, curiosity began. hannibal burres coming out and mentioning it in his routine which was courageous. i really admired him for that. >> is it because he spoke up, and a man was saying this?

>> i would say yes. >> something sexist about this? >> i would say yes. in a way you say why did it take a man to wake people up? now, is it because he's a man, is it because he's also a comedian and there are peers in the comedic circles and that's like wow, if the he's going to say it then i need to be listening. because up to that point i went from 1986 to 2004, 2005, when a woman did file a lawsuit and i was called to testify in court, those years didn't exist. in other people's eye, in the public's eyes. only 2004 forward that just little bits were coming to. something would bring it up into the media, it would be listened to, there are people magazine would do an article and "newsweek," different news outlets, all of a sudden it would go away. >> final aspect about this. for people watching cynically perhaps, there is no pay day for you. >> absolutely not.

>> no lawsuit. the statute of limitations has run, no book. you are here because you want people to know. >> that's exactly right. that is exactly right. my agenda was never to get any money. i never took money, never asked for money. i had no monetary incentive. my statute of limitations had run out. after i got laughed out of the lawyer's office it was over and done. i needed to get on with my life. in that time the statute of limitations ran out. i came out to help other victims. i was hoping that the other ten jane does listed as witnesses in our case would say my goodness, it's safe to come out. i don't have to hide. my lawyer had said do you want to stay jane doe? i absolutely refused. i said no, i have been a jane doe for 17 years. if i continue to stay hiding what good am i doing somebody else. i believe her, and i believe the next person and now -- as in back then my agenda is to speak out publicly through action and education, through my advocacy

group pave and to help maybe change some legislation. >> final question. nbc, about to get another show, should they give to the him? >> i think it would be irresponsible. >> thank for being here. >> appreciate you being here. >> we'll take a short break. when wean come bablg, ferguson on edge. people are buying guns and planning boycotts waiting on the grand jury. the police, they are waiting and i'll talk to a veteran cop about getting ready and why an indictment would make them very nervous. and it look likes fireworks in the nation's capital. the president says he's going it alone on immigration reform. that has republicans mad as hell. but can they agree on what to do about it?

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michael brown? people are so nervous many are buying guns, one gun dealer says sales are up 300%. and that has many of us worried, in my case also bewildered. here is my take. with all of the news coverage at the end of the day we don't have all of the facts. i made lists on my legal pads, we know that michael brown was unarmed. we know that his friend says he was trying to surrender. on the other hand the official autopsy and other witnesses afraid to come forward publicly seem to support wilson's story. in other words, that which the public knows is outweighed by what we don't know. how can so many be making plans on what they will do when the indictment decision is announced? one group wants to send a loud message to the governor and the business community asking folks to keep wallets closed on black friday. we're joined by an international representative for the nation of islam and he is a member of the justice for michael brown leadership coalition.

whether someone is pro indictment or police officer wouldn't you agree we don't know enough and that we won't know enough until we see the evidence that was presented to the grand jury, to recognize whether there was an injustice here? >> well, i would disagree with that. we do know enough. we know that michael brown laid on that ground for 4 1/2 hours. we know that he was unarmed. and we know that his hands were up. we do know enough. and the world knows. and what it is it's a case of trying to cover the misconduct of a police officer who murdered this young man in cold blood. so they want to know why the community is upset, they are upset because we are sick and tired of seeing this happen throughout the country. >> but we live in this country by a rule of law. wouldn't it be better in this circumstance to have a cooling off period, to let all of the information, the evidence that was presented to the grand jury be put forth. let people understand exactly

what those grand jurors were weighing, before any plans are made as to whether there should be a protest. wouldn't that be a more prudent course? >> well, we live in a country of laws but there are laws in this country that put my forefathers in slavery, that kept us from voting. there were laws therein country where we had to ride in the back of the bus. so don't say to me about why don't we let law. the law in missouri is that no police man will be convicted and go to jail for killing a black man. this is the law that we know in missouri and law is a word but the behavior speaks for itself. >> will you be calling for the protesting of both black and white businesses on that day that is known as black friday, the day after thanksgiving? >> the coalition is calling for it. the coalition is calling for boycott of the business establishment, not black businesses, because the black

businesses they are with us in this process. 99.5% of the black businesses want to see justice in the case of michael brown. so the businesses have to know that we want to hear their voice. for justice in the case of michael brown. and we want to also see them push the law enforcement that this is not a war, it's like we're going to war and even those who are interviewed in the law enforcement department say we're going to protect businesses, we're armed, we're going to bring the national guard in. >> we've only a minute left together. i worry that you're about to further the racial divide by protesting only white businesses. frankly, businesses of any kind without knowing all of the facts but only white businesses in the aftermath of this decision. you get the final word. >> because the final word is that the white businesses have the power, they are the ones that pay the taxes that keep the state running and they should demand that justice be done in the case of michael brown jr.

>> okay. thank you. we appreciate your having been here. no matter what happens with the grand jury there will be lots of police on the street. officials are hoping for the best but they spent a ton of money preparing for the worst. and some officers have another worry. what happens if darren wilson is indicted, are other officers going to feel that puts them in the crosshairs? i want to dig into this with gabe crocker, the president of the st. louis county police association, that's the union that represents police officers and he joins us from ferguson, missouri. mr. crocker, so much of the attention has been on what if there is no indictment. it occurs to me there could be a police morale issue if there is an indictment. what concerns you from a police officer's perspective? >> that's right, mike. it's something that we thought about. that would send a pretty tremendous message to our officers that are faced with these life and death situations across our country and especially here in st. louis

where i'm most concerned about deadly force involving a police officer and someone from the public. so, what could that cause an officer to hesitate, could that cause an officer to not react as fast as they normally would because of the hesitation involved, possibly from an indictment of officer wilson? sure, that's on our mind and that's something that we try to engage in a dialogue with our officers about. >> the associated press is reporting that st. louis county has spent $100,000 on riot gear. do you worry that the militarization of the police meaning this effort to keep them safe, actually has the opposite effect and brings out the worst from potential protesters? >> no, i don't think that at all, mike. i have never been a fan of the term of militarization of police though i understand there are some concerns and we worked to address those. i don't think the term militarization of police is a

fair term when you put a helmet on that prevents you from being hit in the head with a brick or a frozen water bottle or you have a shield that stops bottles of urine being thrown at you. officer safety is certainly a huge priority. so i don't think there's much concern about us being accused of or the appearance of militarization of our officers who are working with a lot of peaceful protesters and embedded in them are some very violent protesters. militarization -- >> the argument is that equipment, machinery that was intended for a battlefield in iraq or afghanistan and now because the military no longer needs it and they offer it to police departments across the country, that when individuals see those roll out on main street usa, it has the unintended consequence from the protesters or from those reacting to the police, but you don't buy it in a case like this? >> sure, i can understand that point. but when it comes to officer

safety and when it comes to using those vehicles in a manner that protects the public and officers, for me it's a no-brainer. >> final question, mr. crocker, do you worry about the ability to keep businesses safe where now there is discussion after protest against businesses? >> well, you know, i heard about the protests against businesses and certainly we don't -- we're going to do everything within our power, we have a unified command. our chief, john bellmer assured a lot of local businesses and business leaders and community leaders that we're going to do everything within our power to protect those businesses. we understand that this is a high level of frustration for people out there. but we need to protect our businesses and we need to protect the public. also, protesters. i mean it's a very dynamic situation that we're in out there. and it's a tough job. our officers are ready to do the best that they can. >> gabe crocker, thank you and good luck to you.

>> thanks, michael. >> ahead, immigration reform is heating up. the president says he's going to do it with or without republicans, they are fighting back but not everyone in the gop is on the same page. some of them are talking about a government shutdown even impeachment. i'll talk to a leading republican about the right way to fight back. woman: everyone in the nicu -- all the nurses wanted to watch him when he was there 118 days. everything that you thought was important to you changes in light of having a child that needs you every moment.

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welcome back to the program. it looks like war on capitol hill. the president is reportedly going to order major immigration reform in a matter of days, bypassing the congress. republicans are furious, they want congress to do it. but the president says he's been waiting for congress to act for years. my take, why can't the president issue the executive order and then give the gop 90 days to pass their own bill? i want to dig down on this with congressman charlie dent. a republican from the great state of pennsylvania. good to have you back. on your website it says i oppose any amnesty program that overlooks or downplays illegal activity. if the president creates a path for 5 million folks where they are protected from deportation, because he's giving them work permits, does that factor into what you are concerned about? >> well, let me first say i would object to the president taking some type of administrative action with respect to 5 million people. that said i do believe congress

should deal with the issue. the american public, i don't want to take this executive action and tie it into the spending bill. i think we need a debate independent of the appropriations process and i believe we should address the legislatively. immigration. on a step by step basis. let us deal with border security, interior enforcement, agriculture workers, and have a responsible conversation about those individuals who are in our country unlawfully. i think we all recognize it's not practical or feasible to deport 11 million people. it's nearly the population of the commonwealth of pennsylvania. so i'm prepared to have that debate. i believe that the administrative action would likely muddy the water in terms of moving legislation forward in a new congress. >> how about the solution i proposed. i'm not taking original credit for it, it's something that norm warrenstine and i discussed. what if he takes executive action, but he says the implementation won't kick in for

60, 90 days, then tosses the ball to the hands of now republican-controlled senate, republican-controlled house and you have time on the clock when the congress reconvenes to put something better on his desk? >> well, i probably would not pursue that tact. between now and the time congress adjourns in december i believe we should do a few things. pass the appropriations bill to fund the government for the year. we don't want to talk about shutdowns. pass a tax extender bill to provide some certainty to the tax code. deal with the sustainable growth rate, medicare payments to doctors. deal with this now. the cbo gave us a good score. and terrorism risk insurance. clear the decks of these issues, that we can start with a clean slate, in january. and i believe that immigration should be one of the issues we discuss along with trade, transportation, and tax reform. the issues so we can start fresh on these policy issues, i think that's the best way to proceed.

i urged our leadership we should take up immigration on a step by step basis. many of the members 0y owe >> why not in the lame duck session why doesn't the house pass its own immigration bill right now and take control of this issue from the president? >> well, i believe we could pass a couple bills in the lame duck. specifically the border security bill is ready to go. the visas for the stem work, we can move forward on that. agriculture workers. we also have to deal with the unaccompanied children issue. change the law as well. we have a lot of work to do. i don't believe we can do one bill. i think in a series of bills. i believe i'll call at comprehensive process, but not a comprehensive bill. but we'll get to i think to -- get us to a better result. >> congressman, the friday washington post in the front page lead story quoted you saying that you can't listen to

the loudest shrillest voices in the party. i interpreted that to be a reference to senator ted cruz, was i correct in that? >> well, he would be among a few who i believe want to take whatever administrative action the president might take and in fairness i have not yet seen the president's executive action, we don't know what it is. we're hearing about it. if he does take an executive action in the next few days, the president, there are going to be some in my party who will want to try to defund the executive action, as part of the appropriations bill. i don't think that would be a particularly good tactic. it would ultimately taken to the nth degree lead to a shutdown. many do not agree with the president's policy or in this administrative action but at the same time the american people don't want us to shut the government down. i think that we would see a replay of september 2013 or october 2013 where we got ourselves into a shutdown

situation, it's a tactic that will not succeed in the lame duck. harry reid at least through the end of the year controls the senate. so i think we have to separate the appropriations process at this point from whatever administrative action the president will take. but we should deal with whatever the president does, legislatively. >> final question, congressman. thank you again for being gracious with your time. charles krauthammer, says this is an impeachable offense by the president if he moves forward. i take it from what you told us you don't agree with that. >> well, i disagree very much with the president's proposed administrative action as i understand it. at the same time i don't believe impeachment is on the table. i doesn't believe it is. we move into this congress we on the republican side are going to -- want to put forward a constructive agenda. if in the -- if impeachment is the issue i think that will essentially suck all of the oxygen out of the capital and

doing nothing but that. i believe we're going to move forward on transportation, some tax reform, probably on the business side, trade issues and perhaps immigration reform. i believe that's where we're going to go forward. i don't think immigration -- impeachment is by any means on the table. >> thank you for your time. >> thanks, mike. go lehigh. >> up next, parenting isn't easy. i've got four of my own but you would think this day and age a black parent, an african-american parent, wouldn't have to parent differently than anybody else. my next guest explains no matter how affluent you are it isn't the same. ...we're going to need you on the runway. (vo) don't let a severe cold hold you back. sir? (vo) theraflu starts to get to work in your body in just 5 minutes. (vo) theraflu breaks you free from your worst cold and flu symptoms.

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at a special site for tv viewers; go to ziprecruiter.com/offer5. i'm the father of four, i have never had to do what my next guest is forced to do to keep his children safe. i think it's because white parents don't understand what african-american parents have to do every day to protect their children. lawrence gram is a new york attorney t author of 14 books including "our kind of people." in a sobering essay gram describes the devastation he and his 15-year-old son felt this summer when his son was called the n word.

gram was unable to prevent that. he writes about the rules that he's instilled in them. from never running while in view after police officer to never leaving a store without a receipt. so that his kids cannot be unfairly accused of theft. lawrence otis graham joins me now. it was unprovoked. your son doing what he should have been doing and someone hurls or a group in a car hurl that insult at him. >> he called him over to the car when he was walking along campus and that was the most disturbing part about this is because he was minding his own business. he thought they were calling to ask for directions. he got two to three feet of these men and asked him are you the only n word at this school? and what's troubling for us, michael, like many black professional parents we try to protect our children, give them suggestions how to dress, behave. we thought we could insulate them from discrimination but we

fail. >> the fact he was at a leafy connecticut boarding school didn't make a difference. an elite environment was no protection. >> exactly. we think that's going to protect our children when they have grown up in after influence. we presumed that we could give our kids advice that allowed -- would allow them to avoid that kind of abuse or attack on them. but we find out that it's really hard. we give them a lot of rules. >> right. the rules. i want to talk about the rules. are you the outlier or is this typical of what african-american parents have to do? even if you are going to buy a stick of gum, get a receipt. because you might be challenged. >> absolutely. we tell them that because we don't want our children to end up like a trayvon martin or michael brown because we recognize the reality. my kids know they are not to be walking after sundown in any residential neighborhood, not even ours in suburban new york or in our -- outside our

apartment because they know they can be mistaken for someone who is casing the area and it's unfortunate but my kids know the very same thing is that they are not going to be able to get a taxi so at the end of the day if they are with white friends, the white friends get them the taxi so my kids don't get left. >> the thing is sad to me, and maybe the reason i'm out of touch is and you wrote about this in the post, white male privilege. what is it? >> it's basically privilege that white males take for granted. it's not their fault or but they have this benefit presumption when they come in a store no one is following them expecting them to shop lift which is my kids know always get a receipt, no matter how small the item. there is this presumption if they get on an elevator with a white woman that they are not going to grab her purse. my son has seen enough women who pull their purses back when he gets in the elevator he knows not to get on. my other children know the imsaxt even in our own neighborhood they are not to walk late at night or carry objects that might be mistaken

for a weapon. and because the accidental person, the police officer officer, that presumes them because unfortunately even as african-americans we recognize and in this society people look at skin color as a cultural shorthand to tell them what is dangerous. >> how is your son doing? >> better now. he doesn't make the same eye contact with people on the street because he is a little nervous about doing that. >> lawrence, thank you for being here. >> you bet. >> high ranking general is speaking out saying we lost the wars in iraq and afghanistan. but were these wars ever winnable? if they were, who screwed up? and should we have gotten involved in the first place? how would one of the world's greatest leaders winston churchill deal with the rise of isis? we have the mayor of london, the author of a new book on the british prime minister. we'll ask him what would church hill do?

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afghanistan and now the battle against isis. in my view, they are wars without end, unwinnable wars without end. my next guest is someone who knows a lot more about the subject than i do. he is a military hero, and calls the situation in iraq and afghanistan an epical struggle. retired army lieutenant general daniel bolger is the author of a book, "why we lost." general, you have written maybe an incomplete and imperfect

effort to contain the islamic state, is as good as it gets. does that mean in your view it's an unwinnable situation? >> well, michael, i wouldn't say unwinnable but what i would say it's long term. the nature of this enemy these guys hide among the population. and when you go in with major force like air strikes or if we were to put a lot of american troops on the ground like we did in afghanistan and iraq earlier on, they will spread out and go back to ground and wait for us to leave, then do their activities. it's a tough enemy to fight. >> how do we define winning? what would victory look like in iraq or afghanistan? >> great question. in fact i think it's the question we were never able to answer in the afghan war that is wrapping up and the iraq war that started, we pulled our combat force out. what does victory look like? to me the key part of the victory you got to protect the american homeland, prevent

terrorist threat or something from afghanistan, iraq, whatever area we would be talking about, from causing another 9/11 event. in that aspect we've done okay. but you know there was a famous statement made by the old irish republican army terrorist british prime minister maggie thatcher. they said you have to be right all the time. we only got to be right once. so it's a long term struggle with these guys. >> general, i thought it very interesting that you recommended that there be a 911 commission like look, at the conduct of these two wars. i can't imagine that would be a pleasant experience for you because it probably means that generals such as yourself get hauled in front of congressional committees. why do you think we need that kind of review? >> i think the american people are hungry to find out what happened in this war, why it happened, and most important what are we going to do to fix so it isis and other threats crop up what are we going to do about that? if all we can do is the same old stuff because we haven't looked hard enough at it then we really

have truly done ourselves a disservice and more over as a military we have done a disservice to the american people we serve. we don't want to do that. we have to take that hard look and it's more than military. bring in the intel folk, law enforcement, the treasury people who look at terrorist money. all of those people need to come in and explain what happened, why, and then we need to get to fix it. >> you lost 80 soldiers under your command. i would think what i'm getting to is the hardest question of all, you also regard these as two failed wars, to a parent of one of those 80 would you say if asked their son or daughter died in vain? >> i would not. what i always tell them is be proud of the service of your loved one, he or she went when the nation called. they gave their ultimate sacrifice, they fought with bravery, and that sacrifice made on the part of all americans to keep us safe. they have kept americans safe. the conduct of the missions over in iraq and afghanistan flawed,

failed, that goes on guys like me, the commanders. the military says commander's responsible for everything the unit does or fails to do. we failed in our two missions but the soldiers did not fail. they did everything they were asked. i just didn't ask them to do the right stuff. >> well said. retired three-star general daniel bolger, thank you for your service. >> thank you. i've admired winston churchill. but is the great british prime minister in part to blame for the mess that we see today in the middle east? he drew a lot of the boundary lines. i'll put that question to the mayor of london who will join me next. he has a new book on winston churchill. and relieve your other allergy symptoms... so you can breathe easier all day. zyrtec-d®. find it at the pharmacy counter.

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way to the right. the centrists don't speak up enough. one of the things that you said in the churchill factor he is churchill believed it was his

destiny to straddle the political divide. he saw this as a colossus of roads with two feet over the entrance to the harbor. he wanted to incarnate the will of the nation in his person. and that had elements. empire, the destiny. >> can i say i was a skeptic when i received your book. could even boris johnson add to this dynamic? but you are such a character and i say that with affinity and entertaining personality that i think you understand him better than most could. certainly better than the academics. thank you for being here mayor boris johnson. we'll be right back. just take a closer look. it works how you want to work. with a fidelity investment professional...

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we're out of time. thank you for joining me. don't forget follow me on twitter as long as you can spell smerconish. see you next week. is america's military presence in iraq about to expand? a surprise visit to baghdad this morning by the man in charge. >> several more units over here or there's going to be a problem. >> 90 seconds that changed a city. for the first time hearing the dramatic police audio of the moments michael brown was shot in ferguson, missouri and the new video of the officer at the center of it all. >> and this morning comedian bill cosby is asked about those and we have his response.