. high everyone. you're in the cnn newsroom. i'm poppy harlow joining you live from new york. wl is watching and waiting for a decision in ferguson, missouri. a 12-person garage must decide whether the police officer should be indicted in the fatal shooting of michael brown. the grand jury did not reach a decision yesterday. it is still unclear when the grand jury will reconvene. mostly peaceful demonstrations were on the streets of ferguson until the very early morning hours overnight. >> i got my hand on my head.

please don't shoot me dead. i've got any hand on my head. please don't shoot me dead. >> police say three protesters were arrested for blocking traffic and refusing to move out of the road. a few hours ago today michael brown's father emerged to hand out traffic turkeys. he is pleading for everyone in ferguson and across the nation to stay calm and peaceful no matter what the grand jury decides. i want to bring in my guest. a columnist with the st. louis post dispatch. tifd pleasure of having her on the program. good to have you on. >> thank you. >> you wrote a lengthy profile that is going to be in the paper tomorrow talking about how people from all different races, all different socioeconomic backgrounds have been protesting throughout and you focus specifically on m-- talk to me about what the people on the ground are telling you. >> so i interviewed self-young

leaders who have sort of emerged from the ferguson movement. and i think the way it came about was very organic. so initially people who saw michael brown's body on iter, images of it or on facebook were drawn to the site, people who live here and might have had experiences with law enforcement themselves and wanted to know what was going on, what was happening. once they got here on the street, there was such emotion, very powerful emotion, of anger, questions, confusion, hurt. and that over the period of the next several months brought out and emerged young people who have not really been involved with organizing before or leading protests or direct actions that we've seen here in st. louis and has brought out this spirit of this is our civil rights movement. and we have to speak out about these issues. >> i want to read something for

our viewers that you wrote back in august. it stood out to me. you wrote, until we can tell our children and ourselves a more honest story about race in this region, we will be left with far worse tragedies to explain. so what is the honest story you think needs to be told here alongside the story of what's going on right now with the grand jury deliberation? what is the broader context? >> well, that's an excellent question. and obviously the larger story is not just about st. louis and about ferguson, but about the nation and whether or not so many years taf civil rights movement do we still have equal projection for people under the law. are people still treated equallily law enforcement? that is a critical question that has been raised here. how does that feed into whether or not people have equal opportunity and are treated the same in our society? because that is the goal of the country that we live in, right? i kind of explain to people who don't live in st. louis what's

going on this way, so imagine you're in a room and there's something that smells bad in that room. there's like a rotting fish in that room. and after a certain amount of time you don't smell that anymore because you've gotten so used to that smell. and maybe it's only when you come in and out that you realize how badly it smells. there has been a problem with race and law enforcement and equity and resources in this area like there are in so many other communities in this nation. so what michael brown's shooting has done is started a larger conversation about these problems and how do we address them and how do we have systemic change. people want to see justice served in this situation for this young man, but it's opened up a whole big conversation. >> yeah, it absolutely has. and i know you've been reporting specifically on the children of ferguson and what this has been like, the length to which

they've seen it all unfold. thank you so much. we appreciate it. >> thank you. well, our justice reporter evan perez is in clayton, missouri. he has new details on the grand jury. what are you hearing? >> reporter: our latest information from our sources is that the grand jury is not planning to reconvene until monday at the earlier. as you know earlier we had indications from prosecutors that their plan was once the grand jury came back yesterday to hear some evidence, to start the deliberations. they had hoped there would be a decision relatively quickly. they were planning to bring them back today. those 12 people had other plans. they decided once they were done last night that they were not going to come back until monday. that pushes back the decision whether or not to indict the officer who shot michael brown.

we don't know what this means, whether they want to see more evidence, whether they were having trouble making a decision, whether they're dead locked. there's all these possibility that is remain. and obviously if they're dead locked that means there are no charges. right now we are still waiting to hear what more we can get from the prosecutor's office and we'll let you know when we hear something. >> and of course they don't need a unanimous decision to indict or in the. they just need nine of the 12 to be in agreement. you're on the ground there. you've spent a lot of time in ferguson. how do you think this is going to be received by the community? >> a lot of people are just sitting and waiting. we have protesters who have come in from other states to spend the weekend because they were anticipated that the grand jury was going to come back with a decision this weekend and possibly an announcement on sunday. they've been holding protests almost nightly and so we don't know whether they'll stick

around and see when a decision comes. we know that obviously that some of the law enforcement here has been waiting. they've put up these barriers here to protect the -- the state building that's behind me because they were anticipating all of this. everybody's just basically waiting now. >> absolutely waiting. we're going to talk a lot more about this recent development at the half hour with our legal panel so stick with us. meantime, the united states military may not be ending it combat role in afghanistan as scheduled. remember, president obama said just a few months ago no direct combat in afghanistan by americans after this year. only training and support. well, sources close to the white house now say that deadline has been extended. i want to go straight to the white house. what can you tell us about this? i know this is all unfolding in a new york times oppy, we do.

it is that possibly combat will not be ending. you may remember back in may president obama gave an announcement in the rose garden saying they were drawing down the u.s. troop presence in afghanistan but remaining for two key objectives. listen here. >> i've made it clear that we're open to cooperating with afghans on two narrow missions after 2014. training afghan forces and supporting counter terrorism operations against the remnants of al qaeda. >> reporter: but this new order essentially allows u.s. troops to have more authority to go after the taliban. so that is more than they would be doing just for counter terrorism operations against the remnants of al qaeda. but if they need to go after the taliban if there is a threat to u.s. troops or afghan forces, they can do it.

we did get a statement from a senior administration official earlier this morning. i want to read that statement to you because it explains what they're thinking. the official says as part of this mission the united states may provide combat enabler support to the afghan security forces in limit circumstances to prevent detrimental strategic effects. that official goes on to say, while we will no longer targelyy are members -- or provide direct support to al qaeda, we will take appropriate measures to keep america safe. what we are understanding is that the administration doesn't want to happen in afghanistan what happened in iraq, the conditions that created both isis. they don't want the same sort of thing to happen in afghanistan.

>> of course now everyone is going to want more specific details from the white house administration on exactly what that's going to mean on the ground. well, when the president -- or those protests broke out in ferguson, you didn't have to be there to feel and see and hear the outrage and the anger. it was mirrored all over the internet and people followed it in realtime too. we're going to look at how it spread online at lightning speed.

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. zploo we've just learned the grand jury in ferguson, missouri, will not reconvene until monday. this is in the killing of

michael brown. also joining me an activist and cocreator of the activists united. what is your reaction, your initial reaction to hearing that the garage will not reconvene until monday? >> my initial reaction is hoping that this delay again in justice actually means that they are taking the time to review all of the evidence that we've already heard about. i'll be honest, i'm not really feeling positive about it. we've heard that the jury wasn't sequestered. we are willing to make sure that the people in the streets, you know, kind of rest and make sure that justice is served. we're willing to let the process run its course. so we're anxiously anticipating and just waiting. >> and i know you've been covering this throughout, jason, and what we've heard in recent days is that the family of michael brown, the president of

the united states and eric holder -- >> that's exactly what people leer in clayton are hoping for as well. in terms of this most recent development, when you talk to the people here, they make it very clear that they've been waiting for this grand jury decision for quite some time. but in terms of exactly when it was going to happen, everyone out here basically knows it's a guessing game. because of that, everyone really feels as though they just want this to be over. anthony gray, one of michael brown's attorneys yesterday when he was pressed on when the garage would make its decision, he said, look, it could be days, it could be longer. the important point is not so much when for michael brown's attorneys or for the people here on the ground. it's in the a question of when. that's what we're obsessed with in the media. it's what the community reaction

will be. >> ashley, do you agree that? also you could tell us a bit about your plans sense you're one of those organizing the protests here? if officer wilson is dieted, has the plan is? if he is not indicted what the plan is. >> the plan is the same either way. this is not just about mike brown. this is not about darren wilson. this is about a system that is corrupt. this is about a system that is suppose today serve and protect the people that has repeatedly taken the lives of black people without accountability. still, we have a lot of unanswered questions. this is a nationwide problem. we are a girl in cleveland that was just killed by a police officer. just yet the new york police killed a man. they came out very quickly and spoke on his innocence which is progression. we need to see justice.

regardless of whether there's an indictment or not, we still need to address the systemic issues that prevail across the nation. >> you've been on the ground cover handgun this. our first guest brought up the bigger context you have to look at this case and the grand jury decision within. in terms of the police department you've got a 53-member police force you've got four africa american police officers. what have you seen, jason? >> i think it really depends on what part of the community you're talking to. when you're here in clayton, i was talking the people who feel for the people of ferguson, but they also in some way support officer wilson. but they also acknowledge that there are larger problems here that need to be looked at. and they're hoping that once the grand jury reaches its decision, they're hoping that cooler head

prevail. and people can actually think about the larger shi issues that are really at stake here. you know, obviously you have controversy y'all shooting that took place. you've got some of those who are sitting in the camp of officer wilson. you've got some of those who are sitting in the champ of michael brown and his family. the two different sides can in some way come together once the grand jury reaches its decision. >> what are your thought s on that point? what do you hope aside from what is decided by the grand jury but ultimately from your community what do you want to see? >> my thoughts are that there are not two separate communities. there should be one community. and that is the community that is angered and tired and hurt that an unarmed child was gunned

down and there has been no accountability, the community that expect it is police to protect and serve and when they do not do such and when they -- their actions result in the loss of life, we hold them accountable. i question anyone who stand on another side that think it is police should not be held accountable simply because they wear a beige. anyone who takes that stance need to reevaluate and think about why we're really here and that is the fact that mike brown senior no longer has a child. when you think about that, i think one community can come together and say you know what at the very least we derve answers and there has to be op justice for the life that was taken. >> the grand jury will reconvene on monday as they continue to deliberate on this. thank you both. appreciate it. more coverage of the events in ferguson straight ahead. first this, there were som some really big names at the cnn all star tribute held this week in new york city. the show doesn't air until

december 7th but here's what we saw with the sneak speak. >> we're in what's called the whale room. you're wondering why. lint hint for you. the days leading up to the main event are action packed. cameras, lighting, hd video screens and the decor in place. and no show is complete without the rolling out of the red karlt. before you know it, a transformation. so inside this trailer my fantastic colleagues are putting the final touches on the show. come on look alive people. we're almost at show time on this night at the museum host anderson cooper honors a very special kind of people. >> these people don't have a lot of money, access to power. they're just people who saw a need in their community and set about trying to fix something. >> and here the celebrities have

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. anyone with a smart phone could follow the protests that other took ferguson, missouri after the shooting death of michael brown. within seconds those protests het social media and people on twitter followed hem them moment by moment. >> reporter: the protests in ferguson are just one example of how social media can elevate a local event onto the national stage. here's how it played out. august 9th, the circumstances remain under investigation.

but we know a white police officer darren wilson fired at least six shots, killing an unarmed black teen named michael brown. within 24 hours, over 140,000 swe tweets mentioned the incident. august 10th a candle light vigil turns to chaos. that night, first confirmed reports on social media that the police are using rubber bullets. august 11th, the fbi opens a civil rights investigation into the shooting. more civil unrest. tweets reach a rate of 5,864 per minute while two journalists are arrested while sitting in mcdolm mcdonald's. august 15th, identity of the officer is revealed.

the video is released of brown allegedly robbing a store. august 19th, a support daern wilson facebook page received more than 20,000 likes since its creation on august 9th. a second facebook page i support darren wilson is at 30,000 likes. ferguson mentions on twitter heat over 7.8 million. michael brown is laid to rest and the funeral service. the nation waits to see what comes next. our thanks to rachel for that. we have much more on ferguson ahead. up next. i'll be back here at the top of the hour.

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brand new developments in nergs. sources tell cnn the grand jury will not reconvene until monday. 12-personal panel is trying to decide whether to indict officer darren wilson who shot and killed unarmed black teenager michael brown in august. do you think the grand jury is struggling with this? is this why we're seeing such a long process? >> this is anything but a conventional grand jury, right? i've been saying this from the beginning. i've never seen a case where the prosecutor throws every single piece of evidence in front of a grand jury, especially evidence that may not be inadmissible at trial. they're struggling with the overwhelming amount of evidence that was placed in front of them. i mean, we don't know what they're struggling with, but i anticipate that it's going to take them a bit of time to parse through hundreds of hours of evidence. >> do you have a hunch on where

this is going? if you had to guess, before thanksgiving? >> i think before thanksgiving, but again it's so unusual. the process has been so unusual. it's hard for me to rely upon my experience and my sense quite frankly because i've never seen it. >> do you think part of -- we're all saying we're waiting for the grand jury decision. are we partly waiting to see how the community is going to react. there's been all this trumped up anticipation that really there's going to be violence and that's really what all the anticipation is about? >> it seems there is anxiety about how the community is going to react. some say the govern was overbearing in declaring a reeveryor preemptive state of emergency. local business owners to ordinary citizens after the last

time. they started as peaceful protests but they turned into violent riots. minority business owners really suffered huge damage. insurance companies by the way couldn't even pay them back. one of the things we've been talking about are local businesses and how they've suffered. >> every to disagree with you because we're saying everything erupted ed ied in riots. >> there were peaceful protests. >> there was some violence, some rioting rioting. it's been over a hundred days. now to say these peaceful protesters are going to riot again i think miscalculate its situation. this calling of the national

guard escalates the situation rather than deescalates. it's almost as if it's a militarization of the police force. >> i want to throw a tweet up on the screen. on the scene he said this has been a consistent pattern, you lateral police escalation prompts minor response from volatile crowds. here's the other question. i did a piece for cnn's website this past week about in october in october there were protests in keen, new hampshire. a bunch of kid got really drunk at the pump kin festival. they were throwing bottles and rocks at police. people were arrested. and those kids were referred to in the media as unruly whereas the kid who were actually protesting something, who were mostly black, in ferguson,

they're called rioters. they're called thugs. do you think there'sbias in the way we as a country react to protests from black folks versus white folks? >> certainly i don't know that this pumpkin protest was national news. i think obviously we have to have an objective standard. >> there are so many examples of it. remember cliven bundy the separatist in nevada who doesn't want to pay taxes. his people show up armed the guns. nobody called that a riot. the federal agents walked away. >> if that had been a bunch of black folks saying we aren't going to pay our taxes -- >> we all agree we have to have an objective standard for these things. riots are violent. it doesn't matter what color

your skin is. if you're violent if you're looting that is the governor's job to prevent that. >> check out my piece on cnn.com. so the question is, is this a situation in general in ferguson where no matter what happens, no matter the verdict t protests we're just going to all have our stereo types reinforced? .

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. welcome back. i'm talking here with sally and sunny and we are tracking new developments involved in the ferguson grand jury. sources are telling cnn that the grand jury will not reconvene until monday. how will demonstrators react now that they know that the waiting game is getting longer? we've talked here about race riots in the course of american history. we want to revisit this. these in ferguson, we have the 1992 race riots in los angeles with rodney king. we had the oscar grant rites in 2009 in california. are these periodic episodes in american history or do you think we're getting better? >> i want to say first i don't classify them as riots. i think it's protesting and i think protesting is very american. we're talking about civil disobedience. it was something that -- i think

we're seeing sort of a continuum at this point because when you go back to 1992 and rodney can he think, remember that the police force was completely dismantled a police monitor was brought in by the justice department and real positive change occurred. i think we've seen that all over the country, in louisiana, in california. i think this is ferguson's turn because police brutality and racial profiling are real issues that still occur. we know there was a shooting just recently in new york. >> parking lots of the countts gotten better. parts of the country have lagged behind. >> i think it's a continuation of what happened in the zimmerman case. i think the african american community is really protesting and showing their strength in

numbers as a dmunt. >> i think a couple things. first of all we have to remember when -- look at the era of civil rights postsegregation america. the changes that happened in our country did happen in different paces in different places. the north segregates before the south. we've been having questions about -- on the coast of this country about policing and racial profiling and police abuse before they've hit other parts of the country. hopefully the change starts to move faster everywhere else. it's really troubling when we only have these kind of conversations when there's an event. how many more young people have to be shot? how many more young black men have to be shot and killed by police before we do something? >> we have a quote from president obama. it actually came in response to the zimmerman trial. the president said it doesn't

mean we're in a postracial society. it doesn't mean that racism is eliminated. but you know when i talk to my daughters they're better than we were on these issues. so the president in that press conference admitted that his daughters are better than he was. we are getting better and there is a move towards progress. >> i think that is true. what is troubling to me is the reluctance of people to talk about race as a real issue, the reluctance to frame the conversation around racial buys a. somebody called me a red neck racist in a tweet. that's very interesting to me because i am willing to talk about race. doesn't make me a race us or a race baiter. it makes me, i think, a realist. do i think my children have it better than i had it? absolutely. do i have it better than my

father in the '60s? absolutely. it's a conversation that needs to be had. >> and shame on us, those of us who want to be talking about race and racial buys a in america, shame on us if we create a climate that makes people afraid to do so, who really want to speak out in the right way, be helpful, be curious, shake on us if we don't -- >> there is this pc police environment, this feeling where people who want to have these conversations feel stifled. >> i think that's true. once upon a time, we lynched people, right? we completely dehumanized people. they were legally three-fifths. then we shifted. we tried to correct by introducing a new way of talking. did we maybe go a little too far in political correctness? >> right. >> so let's find somewhere in between. let's start talking about it.

>> i think ferguson is the place -- >> maybe those lessons learned from ferguson, things that we can take with us positively from what has been a very troubling situation and saying that the president and republicans don't see eye to eye on immigration speaking of that. we are going to get back to that as soon as we come back. and then we're going to listen to president obama's words like the president and the gop used to listen to each other. nineteen years ago, we thought, "wow, how is there no way to tell the good from the bad?" so we gave people the power of the review. and now angie's list is revolutionizing local service again. you can easily buy and schedule services from top-rated providers. conveniently stay up to date on progress.

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. welcome back. i'm sunny hostin thanks for joining us. talking today with my friend sally and margaret. after the medical term election, a lot of politicians were talking about cooperation and that lasted for about a week. now, the president is doing one thing republicans urged him not to do, taking action on immigration without them. there's a lot of frustration. but if you listen to president obama's words, there's someone he sound a lot like. take a listen to this. >> my fellow americans, i've asked for a few minutes of your time. >> to talk with you about. >> the reform of america's immigration system.

>> we muss begin by recognizing the problems with our immigration system. >> our immigration system is broken and everybody knows it. >> to remain in the shadows. >> we're a nation of laws and we must enforce our laws. >> even as we are a nation of immigrants, we're also a nation of laws. >> we're also a nation of immigrants. and we must uphold that tradition which has strengthened our country in so many ways. >> for more than 200 years, our tradition of welcoming immigrants from around the world has given us a tremendous advantage over other nations. >> the united states must secure its borders. >> today we have more agents and technology to secure our southern border than any time in history. >> some would argue the answer is to deport every illegal immigrant. i disagree. >> even as we focus on deporting criminals, the fact is millions of immigrants, in every state, of ever race and nationality

still live here illegally. tonight i want to speak directly to members of the house and senate. an immigration bill needs to be comprehensive. all elements of this problem must be addressed together or none of them will be solve at all. >> i worked with congress on a comprehensive fix. last year 68 democrats, republicans and independents came together to pass a bipartisan bill in the senate. >> america needs to conduct this debate on immigration in a reasoned and respectful tone. >> my fellow americans, we are and always will be a nation of immigrants. we were strangers once, too. >> we must honor the great american tradition of the melting pot, which has made us one nation out of many peoples. >> as my predecessor, president bush once put it, they are a part of american life. >> huh. so if they're saying the same thing, why can't we get immigration reform done? i mean, margaret, we're all signature here watching that. they are saying exactly the same thing. what is the problem?

why can't we get it done? and what is the gop's next move? >> i have to stop while sally picks her jaw off the table. wasn't that an incredible montage? i loved president bush for being so really thoughtful about immigration reform. and look, i think on the merits i'm one of these republicans who like president bush wanted to see comprehensive immigration reform passed. i think this would be good for our country. by the way, you may not know, there were 150 republicans in the house of representatives who haven't left yet who were also willing to see elements of comprehensive immigration reform pass. >> but it didn't happen. >> you're right. we don't disagree on the mareri but the politics of this. the question is, who's going to own the latino vote, who's doing a better job courting them, and who's winning on the politics? i got to say, i think it's pretty clear. president obama is winning on the politics here. and the reason is, even though

he believes and he said several times that the president doesn't have the authority the constitutional authority to act unilaterally he went ahead and did it. what he's done is he's put the republicans back against a corner. in my view he has now really enticed some of the more radical elements of the republican party to lash out and look like morons. it's entirely possible that senator ted cruz could try to force the government to shut down again. >> get me some popcorn. >> it's shocking to me. sally, of course i'm latino. and i speak with a lot of people in the latino community. immigration is very important to the latino community. and the latino vote is very important to the republican party in 2016. sally, what do you see happening out of all of this? >> let's be clear about a couple of things. the president was exactly right when he said he did not have the authority to on his own pass comprehensive immigration reform willie nilly.

he did what the president can legally do which is change priorities of enforcement which is all he did. >> we're not arguing the constitutionality. >> well, you said it. i got to respond. that's the kind of girl i am. okay. so but the thing is, this is just one of these like beautiful things. if republicans don't like it, pass a bill. if you don't like what he did, pass the bill. now, the reason we don't already have comprehensive immigration reform was john boehner wouldn't bring it up for a vote. there were already the votes to pass it. what do i think republicans should do next? the biggest f.u. in the face of obama would be for them to turn around and pass comprehensive immigration reform. not do it bit by bit. not break it up. not try to repeal what he did or whatever. just pass the bill. and basically say you got us wrong, obama. we could have done this. and you'd make hum look like a fool. >> and getting the latino vote and sort of becoming the savior, the party becomes a savior of --

[ overlapping speakers ] >> one of the things republicans in this congress have talked a lot about is the constitutional process. what is the rule of law? what is the proper constitutional process for passing laws? it's got to come out of the legislature and get to the president's desk, not the other way around. the president said fine i'll do an executive order. if you all pass a law it will override my executive order. now, that is a pretty difficult ask. it makes a very difficult lift harder already. but jeff flake, senator from arizona, border state, republican, said, okay. this just got a lot harder. but let's do it. [ overlapping speakers ] >> one way for the republicans if you really want to put the president in his place, pass a law. >> i'd be remiss to point out that just in the same vein, it's the president's authority to approve the keystone pipeline yet republicans in congress decided they would try to pass a bill to force the president on his authority. so everybody's trying to make everybody do other things. >> it's politics. >> the republicans in congress, do your own job. >> very quickly, margaret, was it a good thing that he did? >> on the merits i don't

disagree with him. but i think it's unfortunate because he didn't let a new congress act. i think that new congress would have acted and we would have had stronger policy that would have benefitted latinos, not the democratic party. >> i wish we had time because sally's waving her head. for all of us here, thanks so much for watching. and stay with cnn for the very latest from ferguson and of course around the world. poppy's back with more news right after this.

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here in the cnn news room i'm poppy harlow live in new york -- in ferguson, missouri where we begin. this weekend we have just learned there will be no grand jury decision. there will be no announcement on whether the policeman who shot and killed 18-year-old michael brown will be charged with a crime or not. let's go straight to cnn justice reporter evan perez. he joins us live from ferguson. so what is the new timeline then, evan? >> reporter: well, poppy, now we just have to wait for the grand jury to reconvene here on monday, and then we'll see where they go. they're in control of this now. we know they came here on friday. they listened to some final bits of evidence from prosecutors. and then they were set to begin deliberations. we don't know what form those

deliberations took, whether they simply decided they needed to hear more, or whether they just had trouble coming to a final decision. and so we do know that they're planning to come back here. the original plan was for them to come back today. but they're in charge. and so they decided they didn't want to come back until monday. and so now everybody is just waiting. law enforcement which boosts all their resources here, they've put up all these new barriers to get ready for what they anticipate will be some protests and perhaps some disorder as well. >> so they could hear additional evidence possibly when they reconvene next on monday. i'm wondering, evan, does that guidance that we've all been getting about 48 hours ahead of time, does that still apply, that once a decision is made the public law enforcement, et cetera, will get 48 hours heads up before it becomes public to everyone? >> reporter: right. that's the last word that we have. and i talked to some law enforcement officials today, and

they say they still anticipate that they will get 48 hours notice. obviously that now pushes us into some interesting timing. we know obviously thanksgiving is on thursday. these jurors come back here on monday and they spend all day and decide they need more time. we're now pushing back into the holiday. we know that some of the schools here in st. louis and the st. louis region have already canceled classes for at least a couple of days here. some of them all week, actually, to prepare for this. and so these law enforcement people who have been sent down here are now in a holding pattern while they wait for these jurors to decide what to do. >> evan perez, live for us from missouri. thanks for the update and the reporting, evan. law enforcement officials in and around ferguson say they are ready for whatever happens once the grand jury decision is made public. many shops really taking no chances, boarding up windows, trying to prevent any possible looting. police say their mission is to pre serve the peace. that might be easier said than done. some protesters complain that

heavily armed officers in riot gear provoked some of the unrest that played out on the streets in recent months. let me bring in our next guest. he's a former police officer, now private investigator and security specialist. he's also from missouri. he was part of law enforcement in missouri for quite some time. thank you for joining us, sir. >> thank you for having me. >> let's talk about what you think has been learned from what we saw unfold and some of the violence we saw unfold on the streets of ferguson earlier this year. >> well, it's obvious we've learned that there are outside agitators coming into the city. and this is a very difficult thing for the local people to deal with who are protesting peacefully. and of course, for the law enforcement officials to deal with as well. so my concern is just what is the intent of everyone involved? we know the law enforcement, their intent is to keep the peace and to protect the property and maintain order.

we would hope that the protesters, their intent, is to let their voices be heard but also to lift and to improve the greater good of the society in reference to michael brown losing his life and not to den great the unfortunate circumstances surrounding that young man's death. >> let me ask you this. there are these 19 rules that have been written up and proposed by some of the protesters to law enforcement. and we understand that law enforcement has agreed to some of the rules. overall both sides saying we're trying to make it better than it was last time. but law enforcement has also said we can't agree to all of these rules, such astelling us what our officers can wear or not wear during the protests. do you think proposing these rules is a good idea, the right step? >> of course i do. what we're dealing with here is, we're trying to update

antiquated policies that law enforcement had in effect previous -- the previous situation. because we saw the evidence of that. and of course, it's a bargaining tool on both parts. they're bringing up proposals which is very good. and the purpose is for them to be able to express and to protest, for their voices to be heard, for their grievances to be heard out and addressed, and also to work with the police so that they can suppress the violence if that's going to occur. so that's a good thing. >> let's hope that that is not what occurs. any violence. very quickly before we go, some have suggested this decision from the grand jury should be announced on a weekend when kids are not in school. should that be taken into account? or should this decision just be handed down whenever it comes? >> you know, the law is the law. we are a country of laws. this is a land of laws. and to try to manipulate or to

adjust when justice is being administered, i think that's a little extreme. as citizens, we have to buy into the system. and a part of the system is, you know, just as dr. king would say, justice delayed is justice denied. and i don't think that we should tailor when decisions are made by the grand juror by other juries when they're trying to deliberate on a verdict. i don't think that's appropriate. >> rasheed abdul salaam, thank you for joining us today, sir. we appreciate it. >> thank you. we're going to turn now to buffalo, new york. still incredible pictures out of there. flooding from melting snow is the newest threat after seven feet of snow fell there this week alone. at least 13 deaths are blamed on this storm. and the danger could get much worse as the temperatures rise. homes and buildings strained under the weight of tons of snow. dozens of roofs have collapsed. the weather may push many

structures past their breaking point. here's tom foreman. >> reporter: here's the rule of thumb. one foot of snow equals about one inch of water. so a cubic foot of snow would weigh about five pounds. and a five foot column like this in buffalo would weigh about 25 pounds. that on top of a modest-sized home if you spread it out over the whole surface, would amount to somewhere around 19,000 pound of weight up there. most homes in buffalo are designed to bear that. but what they may not be able to bear is this. when that snow has time to compact and to drift, you could have all of that weight from a five-foot column in a single square foot of snow. and then you put more squares on top of it of the same weight. now you have a whole different equation. if you cover the roof five foot deep of this suddenly that number could jump up to 95, 96,000 pounds. that's very hard for any house to withstand. now granted, the structure is

meant to disperse that weight. all the trussing, studs in the wall are meant to make sure none of that weight bears down on one side of the house. but with the rain and melting it gets so heavy it has to do damage. how can you check? a few simple things you can do in an area like this. take a look in the attic if you can. if you see obvious buckling of the trusses up there, that is a warning sign. if you hear a lot of really unusual popping or groaning noises from the wood up there, that's another warning. and if you try to open interior doors and find that they're sticking, that could also be a sign that there's a lot of weight on top of the house. and you may need to get that roof cleaned off. >> tom foreman, thank you for that. coming up, a missouri grand jury will reconvene monday at the earliest as it decides whether a police officer should be indicted for fatally shooting an unarmed black teenager. up next, a forensic scientist reconstructs what is known about the shooting that has raised so

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brown and a friend on foot. what happens next is the source of the controversy. officer wilson fatally shot the unarmed teenager michael brown. the grand jury is weighing whether officer wilson should face charges for that. we spoke to a forensic scientist to reconstruct what we know about that shooting. >> doctor, can you please explain to us by showing us with this mannequin how many wounds there were? >> it looks like there are at least seven shots. perhaps eight. a grazing wound to the right palm near the right thumb, a wound to the forearm, which has both entrance and exit features. there is a grazing wound to the right bicep, a fourth wound to the upper right arm, two shots to the chest, one to the right forehead, the so-called kill shot which entered at the very top of the crown of the skull. >> this is the first shot because there was a struggle

described in the car between michael brown and officer wilson. >> it's consistent with the struggle. what we can say is that hand was very close to the gun when it went off. >> and there appears to be material which is likely gun residue. >> that's correct. >> can you tell from what you have seen so far how far away officer wilson was from michael brown? >> not from autopsy results. what you look for is a gunshot residue pattern. beyond 18 inches, a gun shot leaves no residue pattern. >> so you can't tell. >> even if you had the clothing, you would not see anything. >> so many witness accounts differ. were his hands up in surrender, were they coming down? >> in surrender, i would expect the entrance wound to be on what we call the ventral service. inner aspect of the arm. that's not what we see here. we see the exit wound on that surface. that's demonstrated right here.

the entrance wound is on the back surface of the arm. so the entrance wound is actually here, which is not what you would expect. people don't surrender like that. that would be then transwound. so -- >> could there be another explanation? >> the explanation is when that shot hit mr. brown, the arms were down. when it comes to the arm, it could be up, it could be flailing, it could be rotating. it can take on an infinite number of positions. so we have to be careful making statements about trajectories. and i think that brings us to that upper arm. i certainly don't feel comfortable stating that that is an indicator of hands up or hands down. of the three autopsies, i think they would certainly all agree on the position of the trauma, the wounds to the body. i think how they got there is a matter of opinion. in other words, was michael brown running toward the cop,

police officer wilson? was he falling? was he surrendering? was he not surrendering? all of these are part of the reconstruction. >> and the question remains, what will the grand jury make of the autopsy evidence as they look at that. many thought we would have known what their decision would be by now. but we are still waiting. what should we expect? we're going to talk about that next. but first this. bill gates and steve jobs have something in common. both left college early to pursue their dreams. so the big question is, is a college education today worth the cost? the cnn film "ivory tower" takes a look. >> there's going to be a collapse. one way or another there's going to be a crisis. it gets to the point where the price of a degree is so high that people just don't want to pay for it anymore. >> this is not what most colleges want to talk about. they want to pretend education is something that's completely nonfinancial, it's an end in itself. these are very noble ideals.

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grand jury will reconvene on monday at the earliest. let's bring in hln legal analyst and defense attorney joey jackson. i want to talk about this grand jury. just the fact that this grand jury by the prosecutor has been presented a host of evidence. even evidence that may not be admissible in a trial. how rare is that? >> very rare, poppy. how many times have you heard a grand jury could indict a ham sandwich, right? and the reason you hear that is because generally the evidence is really tailored to the grand jury. >> by the prosecutor. >> exactly. it's tailored in such a way to get the result and the outcome you want which is generally an indictment. in this scenario, apparently the prosecutor has opted to present everything to the grand jury. there are some that applaud that, there are others, poppy, that are very critical of that. and here's why. in the event that you present everything, is it political cover? should he have even gone to the grand jury? couldn't he have done a criminal complaint? that would have resulted in what's called a preliminary hearing. we would have had all these

hearings transparent and everyone would have known what the evidence is. >> our anna cabrera asked the prosecutor mccullough why a grand jury. he said look we do this always in situations like this where there is any question about anything especially when you're talking about someone being killed. >> yes and no. again it depends on the facts and circumstances. in this particular case he opted to do it. there are others who praise him for that, poppy. why? they say the grand jury now has all the evidence, they have all the information. they can make'd kated and informed choice based upon that. so certainly there are pros to what he did. there are cons to what he did. unlike the ham sandwich issue, this grand jury can do anything because they have an awful lot to consider. and i don't know that unlike a regular presentation it's not tailored specifically to get an indictment, it's tailored to give them all they need so if they think an indictment is appropriate they'll give one. >> we know all the 700 plus hours of testimony from the grand jury is going to become public. so eventually we can all see that if we want to. >> if and only if the jury

decides not to indict. apparently it will be made public in the event they don't, poppy. the other process will be followed. >> doesn't this bring up the issue of whether you put the witnesses names out there? whether you strike them or not? >> it could. it's interesting. because the whole reason for a grand jury secretive proceedings, they're not limited to missouri. secretive proceedings are in general. the reason you have that is to ensure the integrity of the investigation, to ensure that witness are not intimidated, that they can give testimony without threats, without feemplt so when you reveal the information there is that threat. however, poppy, what the prosecutor can do is what we call redact the information. that is to block out the names of the witnesses who testified. but people in the media and people who dig like you may find out exactly who the witnesses are. >> final call, right choice to release everything to be as transparent as possible? >> absolutely. in case like this, poppy, you want it all out there. you want people to have confidence and ensure there's integrity to these proceedings. release it and we'll examine it and see what they presented to

the grand jury. >> joey jackson, thanks for coming. most of us have them. you probably have them a webcam? is it on right now? if so hackers could be watching you. that is what happened to a lot of people. you will not believe how easy it was for the hackers.

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your private webcam might be streaming in russia and you'd have no idea. >> imagine in a mouse click a baby sleeping in his crib, a hospital room in minneapolis. these private moments are being publicly streamed on the internet. a russian web site is now displaying the footage from thousands of web cams worldwide. so what's the point of this? the point is to prove just how easy it is to turn on the webcam raed in your home. and it doesn't stop there. they're able to actually turn on public cameras and devices like baby monitors connected to the web inside your home. if it sounds scary, it is. but here's what's more alarming. this isn't a hard-core hack. it's quite simple to do. the reason the hackers were able to stream the web cams of thousands of people around the world? it all comes down to passwords. a lot of the cameras connected to the internet that people buy have default passwords. and that is where you're

vulnerable. now many of the default passwords for these types of devices are posted on internet forums for anyone to browse. there are a lot of hackers looking at these internet forums with these default passwords. one security researcher showed me how easy the whole process is. take a look. >> it is a live shot of somebody's home. and there are many others out there like that. >> you were able to actually turn on ooh camera on someone's computer within their home. now we're looking at a person talking. >> yeah. not only the camera but on a lot of them you can also get audio. people don't change the default password. so while they may not think people are looking at their home, there are people out there that are searching looking for the default user name and password which are publicly available. >> i should mention kyle is an ethical hacker. he wanted to do this to raise awareness. he actually asked his friend ahead of time if he could break in online. but he was able to do this within minutes, which is pretty eye-opening. so what can you do? you can change the password on your webcam if it's set to default.

we can also encourage manufacturers to prompt users to change that default password automatically. if you're very paranoid just put some tape over that webcam. back to you. >> i like that idea, laurie. thanks some. cnn news room continues at the top of the hour. "sanjay gupta m.d." starts right now. there are giant pharmaceutical companies with thousands of employees who spend billions of dollars trying to crack the genetic codes and develop treatments for diseases. the couple you're about to meet? they're virtually on their own. for nearly four years the hempills have allowed me to follow along on a journey where the word "no" is not an option. ♪ twinkle twinkle little star how i wonder what you are ♪ >> as a dad of three daughters, i can tell you, it doesn't get much better than this. [ cheers ] >> a time you could