hello and welcome to the program. i'm michael "smerconish." as we wait for the decision from missouri, key questions you may not have heard. life and death fears among the police. i'll talk to a ferguson cop who says every police officer that he knows has received death threats. and i'll go inside a demonstration to grill a protester who says it's time to turn the tables. >> i'm praying for your death! i'm praying for your death and your death and your death. >> he wants to make the police the target. and i'm an attorney, so i'll take a hard look at the evidence with another lawyer who knows it even better than i do. i want to dig into the most important information that the jurors heard and saw. also, a journalist who is standing up for bill cosby.

she calls the media coverage of sexual assault charges against him a cruise fiction. all that and much more. so let's get started. . up first, with a grand jury decision on the michael brown case expected at any moment, ferguson, missouri, is literally like a city waiting for a hurricane. businesses are boarded up. many still open for business, but with almost no customers, except for people stocking up on basic supplies. only gun stores have seen a lot of business with a 300% rise in sales reported. the governor has declared a state of emergency and activate the national guard. hotels are full of police reinforcements and the fbi has sent in still more agents to back up the local forces. the family of michael brown and leaders on all sides are pleading for calm, whether or not the grand jury decides to indict officer darren wilson killing of brown. me?

i worry people will riot before considering the evidence the grand jurors heard. and i think the presence of so much media could itself incite bad behavior. i'm praying for rain. michael brown's parents have been on an emotional roller coaster. their lawyers say they don't accept this grand jury process as legitimate. joining me now from st. louis is anthony gray, one of the brown family attorneys. mr. gray, i certainly understand the parents hoping the police officer who took their son's life is indicted. but as for the rest of us, how could we possibly be rooting for any kind of an outcome until we evaluate all of the evidence presented to the grand juriers? >> i understand the general public having that type of attitude about the process and about the evidence. i get that. they don't necessarily have a stake in the game. they haven't been there since day one. and so your average joe blow citizen is probably waiting until they, you know, hear

everything in order to make up their mind. i completely understand that, and that's reasonable. >> the family doesn't accept this process as being legitimate. i know you and the other attorneys don't accept this grand jury process as being fair. why not? tell me specifically what issues you have with the way it's been conducted. >> well, it's not necessarily the way it's been conducted. it's the perception going into the grand jury process. we have said all along, we thought this prosecutor's office had a conflict of interest. why? because the officer that's under review also currently has cases with this prosecutor's office. and if that officer is indicted, those cases do not go forward. in fact, you have a jeopardy of opening up old cases. so they have a vested interest to preserve the cases that they have, and to protect the cases that they have already prosecuted by ensuring this officer, by perception, is not indicted. if he is indicted, then quite naturally, those cases are now

in jeopardy, and then the old cases are subject to be reopened. and so -- >> but by that criteria, wouldn't prosecutor mccullough always be in a position of having to recuse himself? because presumably, all police officers who would have a case before him would have business before him as well with someone they have investigated or arrested. >> no doubt about it. and the thing is, unfortunately, these police shooting cases are an aberration. we don't have this he have day, and we hope it doesn't become an everyday thing in the future. but we feel in this particular case, especially when it's high-profile nature and global attention, they should at least get a preshl special prosecutor outside the office and allow the chips to fall where they may and he could have very well been on the sideline and watched that process. and he would have been clean from the very beginning. so that's our contention, and we feel there is a direct conflict because of the things i just stated.

>> i know you've been critical of governor nixon declaring a state of emergency. why? >> well, not necessarily critical of the state of emergency. i think the state of emergency may have been valid for the reasons that he articulated. what people in the community criticized was the lopsided way he did it. it was almost a message to the community and the protesters alone. he never admonished the police officers' behavior that instigated most of the clashes that you have seen on tv and all of the images. and all we said was, governor, you should have been a little more even-handed about your warnings and about your admon h admonishment and what you would not tolerate. so we came out against that and tried to send a balanced message. >> how are the parents awaiting the news, and how long after a decision is announced will they speak? >> as far as how long after the announcement, we're still trying to calculate that. not quite sure. because, you know, a lot of emotions we anticipate one way or the other may flow. and obviously, we've got to

gather ourselves before we come out and speak. preparation, i don't know how you prepare for it. so it's difficult to speak to that. i could tell they have been fully informed that there is -- you know, different outcomes that may result from this. and so they have been informed. how they're going to process it is anybody's guess. >> how well has the office of the prosecutor kept the family informed as best he can without revealing what goes on in the grand jury about the process? >> well, we've been in communication. i don't want to give a degree of frequency, but i have had communications with the prosecutor's office. we are operating from a -- kind of a memorandum of understanding in the way we will communicate going forward. i'm comfortable with our understanding, and hopefully we will fulfill it the way we described. so the family is anticipating receiving some kind of notice before there's a public announcement of this decision.

and so far our communication has been on that level, and we hope we will keep it that way. >> quick final question. has the justice department similarly kept you informed of the status of their investigation? >> not necessarily the status. but they -- the justice department has reached out. both the justice department and st. louis county in terms of certain keepings going on in each office. they have made efforts to reach out and communicate those things to me without getting into the details of it. >> anthony gray, thank you. we appreciate your being here. >> thank you, might go. take care. we're going to take a quick break. when we come back, we haven't seen or heard from officer darren wilson since michael brown was killed. my next guest has, and you'll want to hear what he has to say. and later in the program, in the battle between demonstrators and police, what happens when the police become the victims? stick with us.

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welcome back. let's consider this. if darren wilson is indicted, what will go through the minds of police officers across the country? if i find myself in a life threatening situation, will i hesitate? will the law back me up? how safe am i? he would be interested to get officer wilson's perspective on that, but we haven't seen or heard from him since the shooting. not since august the 9th, the day that michael brown was shot and killed. all we have heard in the reports, that if he's not indicted, he's going to leave the ferguson pd or that he and his legal team are confident in the grand jury investigation. one of people who have spoken with him and his attorneys is jeff rorda, the business manager of the st. louis police officers association, and a missouri state representative and he joins me now. i understand that you spent last thursday, at least a portion of thursday, with the officer. what's his attitude like? >>el with, first of all, michael, i want to make it clear, i don't speak for darren

or for his legal team. you can imagine what a tough time this is for him and his family and really for the entire law enforcement family. >> what's his attitude like? >> i think he's got his head screwed on pretty straight, considering all he's been through. but we're all worried, and he's no different about the safety of police officers. ahead of this very tumultuous decision. >> you're worried about the safety of all police officers, because you say virtually every police officer you know has himself or herself received a serious threat. is that true? >> well, those of us that are close to this investigation have -- i mean, there are very broad threats against law enforcement. and despite this myth of peaceful protests in the wake of the michael brown shooting, we had violent attempts to kill or injure police officers every night for two weeks on the streets of ferguson.

and i'm afraid in the wake of this decision we'll see far worse. >> and mr. roorda, you're concerned in part because you don't think the officer, officer darren wilson, will be indicted. why don't you think he'll be indicted? >> michael, what i know of the forensic and ballistic evidence, this is a shoot or be killed situation and that he acted in self defense. >> is there one particular part of the scenario, one particular part of the evidence you would point to and say, there is something i find significant? >> well, you know, the first shots were fired inside the car, as michael brown attempted to remove the officer's gun, apparently. and then when mr. brown charged the officer a second time, he was left with only one alternative. when someone tries to take your

gun away and then they come at you again, it is -- you -- you're left with the alternative of using deadly force. >> in other words, in lay terms, you see this as a kill or be killed scenario, and that's how you expect the grand jurors will react to it. >> yeah. and, again, michael, we don't know everything the grand jury knows. i'm keeping an open mind, and i ask that everybody following this story do the same thing. >> well, i said that to attorney gray at the outset of the case. one of the problems i have with it, it seems all across the country, so many who frankly don't have a stake in the outcome, because they're not in ferguson, nevertheless are rooting for one outcome or another. and i keep saying that the prosecutor in this case has promised transparency. he has said that every bit of evidence, and this is unusual, that was put before the grand jury will be made public. wouldn't we all be well-served by catching our breath, reading all of that information, as soon as it's put online, and then

making our decisions? >> yeah. and that's why i've been very careful to see, mike he, from what i know of the evidence, i believe officer wilson to be innocent. if there is additional evidence that comes forward as a result of the grand jury hearing, then i'll reconsider it. and i hope that people that think he's guilty will reconsider what they believe once they have heard what the grand jury has heard. but, you know, there needs to be somebody speaking for this officer. because all we hear about is folks that want to try him without the benefit of hearing any evidence. >> i'm not going to ask you his whereabouts. i know you wouldn't tell me if i were to. but the fact that you met with him on thursday -- >> and i don't know those, mike he. >> okay. but the fact that you met with him on thursday tells me that to a certain extent, he's remained proximal, in encloses proximity to ferguson. is that at least a fair characterization? >> well, i'm not going to go into the when or wheres or

whether i spoke with him by phone or in person. but, you know, we are all worried about his safety. and justifiably so. >> governor nixon has declared a state of emergency in this case. you've heard the criticism before that police need to be careful because if there is a reaction of a show of strength by law enforcement, it may have the unintended consequence of bringing out the worst of the prote protesters. do you buy into that criticism? >> not at all, michael. you know, i'm really kind of sick of hearing it, that this constant blaming of the police for the behavior of the crowd. you know, we saw every single night up there for those two weeks of violent protests, we saw the police change their tactics every night. they adjusted to the realities on the ground, and we saw the same outcome every night. and that was violence, attempts to kill police, attempts to injure police. looting. burning buildings. this is not about the police. this is about the intentions of the crowd. and that crowd after dark had

very, very bleak intentions. >> jeff roorda, thank you so much for joining us. >> thank you, michael. we're going to take a short break. when we come back, a mountain of evidence for the grand jury, from crime scene forensics to autopsy results to officer darren wilson's own testimony. i'm going an attorney, but i'm going to turn to another lawyer who knows this evidence very well. the two of us will try to get to the bottom of the most important facts. the key stuff that would drive the grand jury's decision. don't go away. helps you find a whole range of coverages. no one else gives you options like that. [voice echoing] no one at all! no one at all! no one. wake up! [gasp] oh! you okay, buddy? i just had a dream that progressive had this thing called... the "name your price" tool... it isn't a dream, is it? nope. sorry! you know that thing freaks me out. he can hear you. he didn't mean that, kevin. kevin: yes, he did! keeping our competitors up at night.

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welcome back. 9 of the 12 members of the grand jury must decide if there is sufficient evidence to indict officer darren wilson. as an attorney, i've looked at what we do know, and i'm suspect of the grand jury's ability to indict based on the evidence that has leaked into the press. i can see a scenario where they conclude that wilson reasonably believed that he faced death or serious bodily injury. let's drill down on the grand jury process, because it's very unusual in this case. normally, the prosecutor selects limited evidence for the jurors to consider. but with this panel, the prosecutor has conducted what my next guest calls a super grand jury. the jury has looked at a mountain of forensic evidence and heard medical reports. also unusual, the defendant, officer darren wilson, took the stand and testified. and the prosecutor, robert

mccullough, said as soon as the decision is announced, all of the evidence will be released, made public. normally grand jury proceedings would remain secret. joining me now to help figure out what to look for in all of that evidence is cnn legal analyst and criminal defense attorney, mark o'mara. okay, mark, at some point in the near future, a mountain of evidence is going to be put online. you're going to look for certain things. for example, you want to see the police officer's statement. what are you looking for? >> i want to see everything he said about how he was dealing with the event, what he was perceiving, and how he perceived mike brown. but even more importantly than what he said, we then use that as sort of the gold standard to look at everything else we find out. every otherness with witness statement. does it conflict with wilson's statement, does it comport with it. so his statement is going to be the foundation from which we interpret all other evidence. . you're going to look at the crime scene forensics. what in if i can is mark o'mara

looking for? >> i'm looking for anything that will tell me any evidence of where mike brown was and how far away darren wilson was and sort of how that happened. i'll give an example of something i was thinking about. we know now that mike brown was shot. therefore, bleeding. if we sort of follow that trail of blood away from the car, we'll see whether or not maybe mike brown was further away from the car and then came back. because we'll have a trail coming back. so there's forensic evidence like that that i'm presuming the forensics are there. >> in other words, is there evidence of him moving back toward the officer or stopping where he was and as some say putting his hands up in surrender. >> in a perfect world, those drips of blood would be consistent walking away and quicker running back. so that might be there. >> eyewitness accounts. we know of dorian johnson, because he got a lot of face time. certain other eye-witnesses did, as well. but much like the trayvon martin case, there are individuals who we don't know their identity, but they may have seen something and spoken to the grand jury. >> one thing we do know, we know

probably less than 5% of the evidence. >> wow. >> we know there is a mountain, much more evidence to go. we want to fill in all of the holes ourselves. but we have to look at the eye-witnesses on all sides of it and put those all together to try and get a three-dimension three-dimensionalovthree-dimens overview of what happened. >> how instructive are the autopsy results. >> fairly. but i don't think they're dispositive. we know he was shot. they can't tell us how far away he was when he was shot. we know which went in. >> can they tell us if his hands were up. >> no. >> why not? >> if there was a shot through the palm, then yes. anything other than that, and the one shot people focused on, on the arm, you can twist an arm back and forth, up and down, it does not give a dispositive indication of what he was doing. >> another element of the evidence, audio transmissions from officer wilson's squad car. talk to me about that. >> my understanding of what happened was, when he realized that these two guys may have been involved in the robbery, he

called for a backup. but then there was a tussle at the car, and his radio actually got switched over to a nonpolice or ferguson police department band. so there's information that we haven't heard about that we at least have found out is out there. that's going to be very significant, because whatever wilson may have said at that point can give us some information as to what he was thinking. >> are you saying there might be an audio recording of the incident as it took place? >> there could be. because if he was on radio, and was giving information, he may have had it pressed down. it may have had some information of what it was going on. we just don't know. it part of the 95%. >> if the channel were range changed to a nonemergency ant channel, is that a channel recorded in the same way a typical emergent channel would be? >> yes. not necessarily he would have had to have the radio on in order for it to get to the band though. >> one more element in terms of evidence mark o'mara will find

significant. injuries to the police officer. what are you looking for? >> something that will give insight into what officer wilson was thinking. if he was injured in the car, that evidence is a couple things. one, that brown is being aggressive. and if he was shot and still moves back towards wilson, that evidence is to me -- he's not worried about a gun. which would give wilson a real concern. >> another aspect of this that i want to hear you weigh in on. i keep hearing in the media, you know the universal sign of surrender is to put one's hands up. >> no, it's not. >> okay. you've got a lot of experience in handling criminal cases. walk me through a scenario where a police officer has someone that he's dealing with that he wants to subdue, verbally subdue. what would he do? >> get to the ground. get on the ground. if you're within 15, 20, 30 feet away and a cop has the ability to talk to you, what they're saying is get down, get down, get down. spread eagle. we've all heard that. that's really what a cop is going to tell you to do. >> right. we're hypothesizing here. >> of course. >> what you're saying is, you don't suspect what wilson would

have been something is put your hands up, put your hands up. he would have been saying get down, get down. >> and mike brown may have been surrendering with hands up thinking that's what he should do. >> right. >> but the response of any officer is going to be get down because that's where he has most control over you. >> what a greatel analysis. thank you so much, mark o'mara. i have to take a quick break. consider this. demanders have been on the streets of ferguson virtually every night since michael brown was killed in august and most of the time they have been peaceful. but some protesters simply see the police as the enemy and actually try to goad them into a fight. >> shoot, shoot, shoot, shoot! >> i'm praying for your death! i'm praying for your death and your death and your death. >> some protesters want to spark violence between themselves and police. up next, a man who calls himself a citizen journalist. i might call them something else entirely. you'll decide for yourself when we come back.

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should the grand jury in ferguson choose not to indict officer darren wilson. all attention will shift to demonstrators in hope the protests remain nonviolent. at what point does a peaceful protest cross the line and what's the responsibility of those who take to the streets to make their voices heard? i want to play a video from our affiliate ktvi that will test your idea of where protesters cross the line. >> what are you doing here, bro?

get out of here, man, with your coward boys. >> he has streamed this video live at the time. >> coward! straight pig out here! straight [ bleep ] you got to go! your life is in danger, homey. you better go. >> reporter: another officer faced this. >> get your hand off your gun! >> reporter: citizens surround him and chant. >> shoot, shoot, shoot, shoot, shoot! >> i'm praying for your death! i'm praying for your death and your death and your death. >> the man shooting that video and streaming it live for the whole world to see is bassa masri and joins me now from ferguson, missouri. mr. masri, did you spit on a ferguson police officer? >> no, i didn't. that was an expression we used. basically, it's just a sound of me spitting. it's not what i was actually doing. >> you have been charged with spitting on a police officer. am i right? >> yeah, they believe videos and they believe twitter trols

before they look out of evidence. but that's cultural background. >> do you think you're helping the situation if that's the behavior in which you're involved? >> well, you know what, i don't think we should be looking at citizens about how they react towards their public servants. it should be the other way around. now what you saw right there was reality tv. people are [ bleep ] about how they're getting treated and killed. we have a right to be mad. our anger is justified. so any other narrative besides that is just people getting off the subject of justice for myers and mike brown. >> i don't buy into that. and i'm going to tell you who else -- >> well, it's on you if you don't buy into it or not. this is our community. it's not somebody from the outside to judge. >> mr. masri, let me tell you who else i don't think doesn't buy into it and that's michael brown's father. i would like to show you or at least allow you to listen to what he has had to say about the situation. roll that tape. >> i thank you for lifting your voices to end racial profiling

and policin it timdation. but hurting others or destroying property is not the answer. no matter what the grand jury decides, i do not want my son's death to be in vain. >> mr. brown, has made a plea for calm, the president has made a plea for calm, eric holder has made a plea for calm, and you're taunting police officers by calling them cowards, pigs, [ expletive ] and praying for their death. aren't you contradicting what all three of those gentlemen were asking for? >> that was october 9th and ever since then i've been very calm. that was just three or four minutes of me being emotional after they just killed somebody. so, yeah, they're taking that a little out of context. i respect mr. brown. there isn't going to be violence. we're taking deescalation courses. we've been doing our part. any time there is anything that goes on, the police have agitated it. they're going to have to learn how to police us. we don't have to learn how to conform to them. they serve us, we don't serve them. i don't know what people get

down to police, everything they say. we've got freedom of speech in this country and i can push it to the limit any which way i choose. >> but you can't run into a theater and shout "fire," either. there are limits even on free speech. you can't defame someone. >> you know what -- >> i have a proposal for you. >> there is also a limit on police killing people. and that's what we're here for. we're not here for anything about what people have got to say. >> i have an idea for you, sir. >> people are getting killed behind this. there is blood on the street and you're worried about words. >> i have an idea for you. >> that's what journalists are missing right now. why don't you go investigate something real? why don't you investigate something real? i spoke my mind. i'm a citizen. why don't you worry about us getting killed? the war rantsrantwarrants, the . >> i'm worried about facts. >> no, what i said. i'm worried about facts too. >> let me finish my thought. >> go ahead, bro. i'm listening. >> why not everybody catch their

breath, allow this thing to run its course. and then when all of the evidence that was evaluated by the grand jurors gets put online and we can review hundreds, thousands of pages of factual evidence, then we catch our breath, evaluate what it says and plan what our next moves will be. doesn't that seem like the more prudent course? >> you can plan your own reaction how you want. you can't tell our community how we're going to react. this is our community and we're going to do what we feel. now, like i've been saying, we are going to be peaceful. we have been taking deescalation courses, we've been getting training. so there isn't going to be violence. you all are the ones hyping this up and making it something it's not. over a few statements that i said over a month and a half ago. three minutes of me being out of line, you all want to characterize me as being some kind of demon. and that's on you all. i don't care. >> what i'm saying, sir -- >> you know what it's about, too. you can go ahead and skew. >> i'm going to give my final thought and then you can give me yours. there is more unknown in this case than there is known.

i don't know how you could be rooting for an outcome when you don't know the reality that was presented to the grand jury in this case. >> i know this -- i know this, that darren wilson shot six extra times than he had to. he shoots -- he's supposed to shoot to apprehend. we're supposed to have preservation of life in this country, not death. every time they shoot somebody, they kill them the first chance they get. that's not what law enforcement is supposed to do. they're supposed to protect and serve us, not kill us. so all that other stuff you're talking is irrelevant. people are dying and you're worried about words. >> let me tell you what's irrelevant. irrelevant is the testimony of someone via a television camera who wanted their moment of fame. i want to see the testimony of witnesses in front of that grand jury. that's what i want to see. and i want to know the police officer's account. >> i can believe what i want to believe. i don't care what any of them have got to say. i know what happened. i know -- >> you know what happened. >> darren wilson did not have to execute anybody. he could have shot to apprehend. he didn't have to shoot to kill. that's it. >> okay. i don't know what happened.

i don't know what happened. i want to read the evidence. >> eaves a -- he was a teenager and he was unarmed. his hands were up. six extra shots. you tell me. >> thank you, sir. i wish i didn't have to take a quick break, but i do. when we return, bill cosby as the victims' stories mount, terrible stories of sexual assault, one journalist blames the media. she calls the coverage of this case a crucifiction.

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bill cosby's long and is storied career appears to be imploding before our very eyes. every day it seems another woman comes forward to accuse the comedic icon of rape and sexual assault going back decades. cosby himself has so far refused to address the allegations. but now he's fighting back. last night in florida, he got a standing ovation. and one of his lawyers came out swinging, saying the new never before heard claims from women who have come forward in the past two weeks with unsubstantiated fantastical stories about things they say occurred 30, 40, 50 years ago have escalated far past the point of absurdity. cosby is getting some help. the executive editor of "the chicago defender," the city's famed african-american newspaper, wrote a piece this week titled "bill cosby's media

crucifixion." and she joins me now from chicago. thank you for being here. you also wrote in the piece that this is, quote, careless communication that creates a landscape for fraudulent slander. and that reminded me as a formal civil litigator that bill cosby hasn't brought any charges for slander. there's nothing that precludes him, if these statements are untrue, from filing a lawsuit against these accusers. >> this is true. i think i also said in the article that he's retired and tired. and i wasn't referring to him as being a retired from the business of entertainment. but more so that he's just retired from the fight. he's 77 years old. allegations were brought against him years ago. i think the first was 2005 by

andrea coskin, women's coach at it temple and she charged she had been drugged and groped. and women indicate out to join in that. and it was determined by the investigative policeman that they had no evidence. and so he settled out of court with her. and it was dropped. when i say that it's fraudulent, i'm talking about being tried in the media. and so these allegations, they're not even charges. these allegations as his lawyer has stated lately, you know, are coming from everywhere. and we all know that -- >> i -- if i could just respond. >> yes. >> it's the use of the word "slander" that prompted my attention. if it i were practicing law again and he came to see me and he said this is all bs, i would want to know, have you sustained

damages. he has. netflix pulled that gig. nbc shut down the prospective show. so if there is a reckless disregard for the truth, because he's a public figure, he could be suing each of these women and shutting them down. and i'm making the point he hasn't done that. >> what is he going to sue them for? they don't have anything. if he wants to just sue to satisfy the public that, as you have just said, that it is slanderous, and he wants to defend himself, i think he's just taking the position that he's just not going to acknowledge it. he's just not going to give it that dignity. and who wants to go dig up dead bodies? i think that's what it's like. and i also think you don't want to give credence to this media landscape that at best at this time is very pedestrian. i mean, we don't control it. anymore. anybody who wants to state their opinion can. and so these women feel very

comfortable coming forth and saying these things. jumping on the bandwagon. it's not the first time it's happened. >> ma'am, what could be in it for them? >> what could be in it for them? i'll tell you. >> tell me. >> people get reality tv shows that spinoff of this. they get their 15 seconds of fame. they get to have interviews with you or whomever. >> but i have to respond to that. yesterday -- >> it's the money. >> yesterday allison cameroti had an interview with the most recent accuser and felt obliged to say here is a woman who has come forward and by the way, she has a rap sheet. and i'm thinking there is no up side for that woman to stand up and say he did it to me too, because her whole life becomes an open book. what's the possible up side, it's too late for them to sue him. >> this is true. i have -- i have no idea. but i will tell you this. that it's not the first time

that it's happened to celebrities. and people do things for many reasons. i am not at all upholding or trying to say that bill cosby is guilty or not guilty. i'm just saying that the public is not the place where we judge people. we are not the court of law. it's an informal place. and we have laws, if you are -- have been an ex attorney, you understand, we don't try people in the public. we just don't to it. that's why we have laws to protect ourselves from these things. >> one other observation. >> it's not fair for us to do that. >> in your piece, you said cosby went to court and was exonerated. as far as i never know, he never went to court and was exonerated. >> well, he wasn't -- i shouldn't have used that terminology. when the settlement -- i mean, when he was originally sued, they ended up settling out of court. so i should have stated that.

but i just took creative liberty to say that he was exonerated. so i apologize for that. but seriously, the point is that at the time when the other women came forth, they didn't have any evidence. and here's my question to you, and to the public, period. all of these women were of age. why didn't they -- just one go get a rape kit? repeatedly, it is said, over and over again, that they were intimidated by cosby's power. i have this to say about that. if you go, you get the rape -- you know, you have a rape kit. the dna exposes who he is. he -- we wouldn't be here today talking about that. i don't care how powerful he is. he would have been brought down. come on. >> thank you. i interviewed one of these women just last week. i did say to her, why the next day didn't you call the police? their answer, of course, is to

say they were intimidated by him being in a position of power. i wish we had more time and i thank you for being here. up next, the president decided to go it alone on immigration reform, and he's taking heat from activists who say he's not doing enough, as well as republicans who say he's gone too far. i'll get the scoop from a top gop congressman on what his party intends to do about it.

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welcome back. this week, president obama told as many as 5 million undocumented immigrants they could come out of the shadows. it's the most sweeping executive order ever to limit deportations. but there's no path to citizenship. some immigrant advocates think it doesn't go far enough. in las vegas on friday, one of them heckled the president. >> that's right. not everybody will qualify under this provision. that's the truth. and that's -- that's the truth. that's why we're still going to have to pass a bill. >> the order has republicans fuming, but has also sparked confusion within the party about how to fight back. joining me now is republican congressman joe barton from texas. congressman, thanks for being here. what of what the president just said? why not pass a bill?

>> well, we should pass a bill. i don't think anybody in the republican leadership, in the house or the senate, is opposed to passing the bill. a bill. what we are opposed to is some of the things that the president has tried to do unilaterally in violation of the constitution by this executive order, which goes way beyond anything that they're trying to call prosecutorial discretion. >> so instead of them focusing on a process, why not give him an alternative, especially when, come january, republicans will be in control of both the house and senate? doesn't a more prudent path seem to be that the gop passes an alternative, makes it public, and puts it on his desk instead of just getting bogged down and fighting him over his executive order? >> well, we have -- you know, i haven't spoken to the speaker, john boehner, directly on this, just today since the executive

order came out. but i talked to him recently about this, and i can assure you that he and the incoming majority leader in the senate, mitch mcconnell of kentucky, are discussing a wide range of options. one of which will be, and i would almost -- since i'm not a full committee chairman of the committee of jurisdiction, i can't guarantee it, but i would bet money that we are going to begin to pass some deals to deal with the issue. the president just took action into his own hands, acted unconstitutionally, that's what we're upset about. there are problems with what he's said, but there's a huge problem with what he did, acting independently, when he clearly doesn't have the legislative authority to do so. >> do you regard what the president has done as an impeachable event? >> well, impeachment is indictment, and it's for high crimes and misdemeanors. i certainly believe the president is in violation of his

constitutional authority. article i, section i gives legislative authority to the congress, not to the president. but we had never -- we have impeached several presidents in the house. we have never convicted a president in the senate. the president's only got two more years in his term. i would think it would be prudent to work to show the american people we can govern and not get bogged down in an impeachment process, which just takes all the oxygen out of the room. but i do think there are reasons, if one wanted to pursue that path, you could consider it. >> congressman barton, thank you for your time. we appreciate your being here, sir. >> stay tuned. >> i'll be back in just a moment.

hey, thanks so much for joining me. don't forget, you can follow me on twitter so long as you can spell "smerconish." two or three emotional experiences burned into his heart and his brain and no matter what happens to me, i remember november the 22nd as long as i live. >> there has been an attempt on the life of president kennedy. >> they are combing the floors of the texas depository building to find the assassin. [ gunshots ]. >> oswald has been shot at point blank range fired into the stomach. >> police are working to the assumption oswald's murder was to shut him up.