afghanistan and the fed rated states of micronesia are next with 36%. yand hindia has the largest number of young people, 356 million. thanks for being part of my program this week. i will see you next week. good morning and welcome to a jam packed edition of "reliable sources." i'm brian stelter. we'll look back at bill cosby's attempts to pressure interviewers to avoid being asked about the swaument allegations against him. we will look forward in that story as new women are speaking on the record this weekend and his lawyer is asking when will it end? but i want to begin this morning with the stories you probably haven't heard from ferguson, missouri. for days newsrooms like this one have been standing by waiting for some sort of word from the grand jury that is deciding whether to charge officer darren wilson in the shooting death of michael brown. frankly, i think some people, some officers, some protesters,

some journalists are getting impatient. a local critic of the national coverage is standing by and so is a lawyer who is making sure no more reporters get arrested. remember that from back in august, a number of reporters arrested? there are some claims a reporter was also arrested last night. we'll try to check it out. let's get an update from ferguson. sara sidner is joining me live. sara, can you tell us the latest sense of timing about when we may hear something from the grand jury, from the prosecutor's office? >> reporter: look, i want to speak to some of what you talked about. evan perez had some great sources. he's been coming out and saying the time something perhaps friday, maybe it's going to happen sunday. now he has reported that his sources say that the grand jury did not finish and they are going to resume on monday. there is a lot of frustration here, as you might imagine. this is perhaps one of the longest grand juries in history. it's been three months they have had ahold of this case and a lot

of people don't understand why it is taking so lock bng but ths a very different scenario. they're basically being asked to investigate far more than any grand jury normally does. they have a very low flethresho. they have to decide whether they think a crime has been committed and then it's up to the prosecutors and a jury of their peers to decide whether to convict or not. and so i think there's just a lot of confusion on people's part as to why this is taking so long. there is also a lot of frustration about our coverage, i will admit, because people get frustrated when they get worried and nervous that, oh, my gosh, today is the day. you don't know how many e-mails i get from people who live here, residents saying i just heard you said today is the day and i'm worried, is it true? and so i think one thing we need to mention is that the sources who are talking don't actually know the exact timing of this because the only people who know are those people who are on the

grand jury and they are not supposed to be talking, brian. >> that's crucial. to be honest, i have goten from complaints from other journalists saying why are cnn and other television networks hyping the possible deadline days for the grand jury? it seems to me no one truly knows and as long as we make that clear in our coverage, in our banners on the bottom of the screen, then it does seem appropriate to be telling people we are expecting news soon, we just don't know quite when. >> i think that's really fair. the truth is there are 12 people that know exactly where they are and how long they think this might take. none of them are supposed to be talking. so all of this is people who are saying, okay, i know they're meeting now, i think it might happen. i think we need to be careful with this idea of hyping. this community is already on pins and needles. they have been nervous for months and they are tired of it. they want, as they have said to me many times, to rip the

band-aid off and give us a decision so we can go forward with our lives so the city can start to try to deal with whatever that aftermath is, brian. >> sara, stand by. frank aebischer is a local media critic. frank, there have even been some claims in recent day that is networks like cnn want some violence to happen, want riots to break out after this result comes down. what's your view in st. louis of the national media coverage of this story? i think we don't have frank yet. let me turn to another guest i have standing by. benjamin litman, a lawyer in st. louis. he specializes in media issues and he's represented some of the journalists who were arrested covering the protests in august. now he's helping news outlets preserve their rights in this situation. can you hear me? >> yes, i can. >> i want to go back in a moment to that issue of violence but in

terms of arrests, what are you doing on the ground to make sure reporters can cover protests freely? >> we have done a number of different things. first is dealing with -- talking to law enforcement ahead of time trying to explain what we think are the rights of the reporters under the first amendment in the hopes that we can get ground rules, i guess, so everybody is in agreement what the reporters can and can't do. then, excuse me, in the rare circumstances, if a reporter is arrested, all you can do is try and communicate with law enforcement or whether it's the judge or the prosecutors to try and get them out as quickly as possible, and then deal with the fallout afterwards. unfortunately, when you're talking about covering protests where everything is so fluid and there's so much going on at the time, there's not really the opportunity to stop and discuss it when it's happening, and it really comes down to trying to

get ground rules ahead of time and deal with it in the aftermath. >> we're showing some pictures from one of the arrests of a photographer that happened in august but there was a report last night the st. louis county police say they took one reporter from washington into custody. the name is trey yingst. he was taken into cut for failuredisburse. trey wrote back and said at this time he cannot do an intrve for legal reasons. but he says he was just exercising his first maement rights trying to cover the story. this is actually what he wrote last night saying he was just exercising his first amendment rights on a public sidewalk. the controversy is whether he was on the sidewalk or in the street it seems like. he's an example of a reporter in town not from a big name media outlet but someone on the ground trying to cover it identifying as a journalist. i wonder if you have some issues on the ground about people not from "the new york times" or

cnn, may not have that kind of press credential to show a police officer but say they are journalists, last week he had bassam massri on the program. he's a live streamer who holds his phone up and records protests. how does the definition of journalist play in this issue? >> from a constitutional standpoint, the definition of journalist shouldn't play in. from a practical standpoint it sometimes does because i think that the law enforcement understands that the press has a role in this and if somebody is displaying press credentials, i think that goes a long way. we certainly encourage our clients to have their press credentials handy and showing because i think the police do give them some leeway to do their jobs, but the constitution protects all of us to be in public places and to watch what's going on and to record it if we want to. if any person, whether journalist or not is standing on a public sidewalk and not interfering in any way with law

enforcement, then they should have a right to go ahead and stand there whether they're filming or not. >> sara, let me bring you back into this conversation. i mentioned a couple moments ago this issue of some people at home thinking the media wants violence to happen. it's a tweet from gwen ifill fromp bs who said is it just me or is it beginning to seem like there are some folks who will be disappointed if there's not riots in ferguson? have you heard some of the same criticism and what is your point of view about that, sara? we don't want violence but we want some sort of resolution here. >> i have absolutely heard some of that criticism, and i think for a lot of people in watching this they feel like it is being hyped up and talked about far too much. but some of that is coming from the response from people who are here. i can tell you we've seen in our own hotel folks who have come in from out of town who have brought their phones and are ready to record and they have all their equipment to come out

and take part in this. and so there's a really big conversation going on right now. i can only speak for myself. i can tell you i have now been in this community for more than two months now, and i would hate to see something happen here that's destructive. the people and the places i have gone in this town, they are wonderful people, and i am talking about those who are here protesting from ferguson, those businesses that are here who are serving the people of ferguson. even some of the city officials in ferguson. everyone is talking about this, but i have met some wonderful, wonderful people here, and it breaks my heart to sort of see them in this level of fear that they've been living with for a few months now. so in my estimation, i would hate to see something go wrong here. what i do want to see and what everyone wants to see is some kind of resolution. what is that grand jury deciding and then let's go forward from there. onnesty is really important. this has brought up a huge ssh in this country, and i think that's fair to say that there is

an issue between african-americans and police. i don't think there are many people that dispute that. but there's a way to deal with it, and a lot of folks here are hoping it's dealt with in a peaceful manner, and to be clear it has been mostly peaceful. there are some folks who come and stand in the middle of the street and bait police, but for the most part over more than 100 days we have only seen a couple arrests. so i think we need to keep that in mind. there has been no looting, no burning down anything, no destroying anything other these past 90 or so days. there were some issues in the very beginning, brian. >> thank you, sara. this is not just about michael brown anymore. the logo on screen might say the death of michael brown but it's about a movement now. i think you would agree with that, this is about a movement, not just that one moment in time. thank you ben lippmann and sara shider in, thank you for being here. we will talk more about ferguson, the invisible man, darren wilson, because there are

a few television anchors that have actually seen him and spoken to him but they're not allowed to tell you about it. i'm going to tell you why. my exclusive reporting on this right after the break. [ male announcer ] at northrop grumman, we've always been on the forefront of innovation. when the world called for speed... ♪ ...when the world called for stealth... ♪ ...intelligence... endurance... affordability... adaptability... and when the world asked for the future. staying ahead in a constantly evolving world. that's the value of performance. northrop grumman. time. i'm going to tell you why. just your signature,righty you could drive home for the holidays in a new volkswagen. like the sporty, advanced new jetta and the precisely engineered passat tdi. ah, the gift of clean diesel. for the new volkswagen on your list this year,

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in on a secret. some high profile news anchors have met wilson. they've talked with him one-on-one in secret locations entirely off the record all in the hopes of landing his first television interview. because it was off the record, those anchors can't talk about the meetings and their networks can't really even confirm the meetings happened but here are the anchor names i know with the caveat that others may have met with him. nbc's matt lauer, abc's george stephanopoulos, cbs's scott pelley and both the prime time anchors at cnn anderson cooper and don lemon. maybe other anchors as well. i have a feeling some okay yar at fox i just don't know the name but that's what my sources are telling me. this pursuit of an interview it's always a high stakes game. the media play it is in every big legal or criminal case. and jim moret, the chief correspondent for "inside edition" has been involved in these efforts and he joins me from los angeles to shine a light on how it works. jim, you were the winner in one of these big booking contests. it's weird to describe it that

way but that's how it's talked about in tv. tell me about how it works. >> the example you're talking about was some time ago but it was a big interview for us, george michael had been arrested in los angeles for exposing hymns in a men's room in los angeles. i nomar rea shriver at dateline was close to locking him up. we on friday had made arrangements to go live to tape and broadcast friday night and it would be international then saturday morning over in england, and that was really the pivotal point for george michael because we didn't realize it at the time, but on sunday, that sunday, the tabloids were going to out him as gay. he knew about it. we didn't know about that. but he chose us because our venue, our network, cnn i was with at the time, was able to

trump those british tabloids. so it's really a couple of things. look, the anchor names that you mention, think about the heady experience for an individual who is approached by matt lauer, by say anderson cooper wants to talk to you. you know, and the currency that they have and the only currency i would offer is does somebody like me? does somebody trust me? you want to give them the opportunity to make their case. >> it's about establishing comfort with the possible interviewer, right? >> absolutely, absolutely. and, look, if anderson called me, i know anderson from tv. i have met him. i like him. i trust him. trust is his currency really. but you have really a couple things to consider. is the network live? is it a taped show? fast forward to last year. sidney leathers was in that controversial texting or sexting with anthony weiner. she didn't feel comfortable

going live at that time. we got her because we were tape. i spoke with her. you know, it's interesting. when you talk about being first, it's not just the viewers you get for the interview. it's the publicity you get after and with this fractured environment where networks get 500,000, 1 million, 2 million views instead of 10 and 20 million. if anderson cooper gets an interview, if wolf blitzer gets one, if we get one, the real value also in addition to people watching our show then is other networks rebroadcasting with our little bug on so that promotes the show. and that's really a value, too. >> you know, this is a little awkward for me to ask because i'm talking about a couple of my colleagues and several other network anchors but do you think it affects the coverage at all. if you sit down with them off the record, you can't talk about what you learned from them but might it in some subconscious way affect the coverage? >> i don't think so. i think we're all professionals.

i'm a lawyer as well. sometimes you may like a client, but you may not like what they've done. you've got to defend them. you have to ask tough questions. i never make any deals not to ask questions. my goal is to be respectful so that when they leave, even if it's a tough interview, they feel like they've gotten a fair shot and -- >> speaking of those deals, jim, i got to ask about the financial relationship sometimes. someone like darren wilson doesn't seem to be as likely but in some of these cases aren't their pictures licensed so the interview subject gets some financial reward out of it? >> all of the networks, most of the networks, for example the "today" show will fly somebody in, put them up in a hotel. but it's not like a bargain where you say we'll send you to some broadway shows, give you a fun time. it's not like that. you do license photos in many cases. you're not talking about a lot of money. you're also not buying their statements. you don't wanted to influence what they say based upon

licensing a photo and i don't think any news organization or any program really wants to do that. >> where do you think darren wilson will ultimately end up going when it comes to these television interviews if he ever speaks. he shouldn't assume he will. george zimmerman after the trayvon martin case after the trial ended, he spoke to sean hannity at fox news and then a number of other interviewers. >> well, i think in that case george zimmerman went to a network he felt would be favorable toward him. whether they were or not, i couldn't say, but nbc was critical of george zimmerman, and there was a controversial report they had issued and whether or not they would actually doctored a tape that was shown on tv. >> right. >> i think the perception of the network, the perception of the venue and the perception of the interviewer all come into play. >> all of it play in. jim, thanks for being here. interesting conversation. >> my pleasure. thanks for asking. >> my sense by the way from my sources about darren wilson is

it's mostly the anchors who do the talking. we'll decide if he ever decides to give a first tv interview. when we come back, what a difference a week makes for bill cosby. he received a standing ovation on friday night at a florida performance even as more and more women are coming forward with claims of sexual misconduct. what is it like to confront a comedy legend like this man about these charges and then have him question your professionalism? i will talk to the reporter in the center of that storm right after this break.

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welcome back. this headline atop "the washington post" this morning says it all. accusations recast an american cultural icon. it had stripped across the front of the post this morning and that icon is bill cosby. so much has changed about cosby since last week. his potential nbc sitcom no longer in development. his cosby show repeats no longer airing on tv land. his netflix comedy special on hold. several of his standup performances have been scrapped too, although dozens of others are still scheduled to go on in the next six months. but here is the remarkable thing. some of the women who have accused cosby of sexual assault first leveled those allegations many years ago. you might say the allegations,

accusations were hidden in plain sight but only a handful of journalists paid close attention back then. all that changed this year and specifically this month. i interviewed one of the accusers, barbara bowman, right here last week. and monday and tuesday and wednesday, et cetera, et cetera, other women spoke out as well. some repeated what they had said years ago and some spoke for the very first time. that post story now counts 16 women. now, a very important reminder here, cosby has never been charged with a crime in any of these cases. one of cosby's attorneys, martin d. singer, released this remarkable statement on friday. over and over again we have refuted these new unsubstantiated story was documentary evidence only to have a new uncould be rated story crop up. when will it end? it's long past time for this media vilification of mr. cosby to stop. there have been a lot of

questions about why those allegations on tv in recent days didn't get more coverage from more media outlets years ago, and i think this next video clip is a big part of the answer. because thea p, the associated priss, was talking to cosby a couple weeks ago about their involvement with the smithsonian art exhibit. this all happened i think it was november 6th. it was before any of the tv interviews with any of the accusers took place. but back then the comedian hannibal burris had been getting attention for calling out cosby. the ap reporter tried to skf cosby for comment. we don't answer that. we don't answer that. after the interview before cosby took off his microphone, this happened. >> now, can i get something from you -- >> what's that? >> that none of that will be shown? >> i can't promise that myself, but you didn't say anything -- >> i know i didn't say anything,

but i'm asking your integrity that since i didn't want to say anything but i did answer you in terms of i don't want to say anything of what value will it have? >> think about the power dynamic there? cosby continued to pressure the young reporter to scuttle the question about rape, to hide it from the public, and even questioned the reporter's integrity. at first the ap just reported the no comment from cosby with you this week they decided to reveal the whole cringe-worthy tape. that person is ap arts writer bret zunger and he joined me from washington. thank you for joining me. >> thanks for having me. >> tell me about november 6th for people who have not seen the whole four-minute video. it's pretty excruciating to watch. you asked bill cosby several times about these allegations. he said he had no comment, and then what did he say to you

next? >> you know, he kept talking after i asked him questions -- after i stopped asking questions. he wanted to ask me a few questions at that point. he asked, you know, would we not use any of the video from the questions i had just asked him and i said i couldn't promise that and he asked me a couple more times. he said that if i was a serious journalist we wouldn't use any of this footage. >> that was my favorite part and my favorite i mean most horrifying. when he says to you, well, if you're a serious journalist, you're not going to be wanting to share this. that's the opposite of a serious journalist. did you sense in that moment that he didn't even understand what real journalism is? >> it surprised me quite a bit that he questioned my integrity for even asking the question. you know, i was there -- i have been an admirer of bill cosby growing up, watching him on television. i didn't want to ask these questions, but i had to ask these questions because i'm a journalist and i was doing my

job. >> so for a few minutes he tries to pressure you, that's my word, not yours, pressure you into not sharing the video clip of him badgering you about the questions. then what happened after the cameras turned off? did he keep bringing this up to you afterwards? >> you know, most -- our entire conversation was really captured on camera. >> okay. >> the camera kept rolling and when the camera stopped, i stood up and i shook both of their hands and thanked them for the interview and we moved on. >> was it ethical then do you think for the ap, for you and your colleagues to now share the video of the exchange that happened after the interview formally ended? >> you know, it's interesting because nobody ever actually said this interview has ended now. nobody said let's turn off the camera. the conversation actually continued and the camera kept rolling and the microphones were still on mr. and mrs. boss cosb

that point. >> let me ask you about the two weeks between your interview which you had no idea would become as famous as it now is and the period you were publi published by the ap. were you involved in the deliberations about whether to share it and what was your position on it? >> there was a big discussion from the moment the interview ended and then over the past couple of weeks about how to handle this. so i was part of the discussion, and it involved editors all the way up to ap headquarters in new york city. but i think it's important to remember that two weeks ago this cosby story was in a very different place, and it's evolved pretty dramatically since then. several more women have come out with allegations against bill cosby. several media companies have moved to kind of distance themselves or cut ties from mr. cosby, and so we looked at the entire tape again this week and the video seemed much more relevant at this point in the

story. i think people wanted to see how he would react to being questioned about this. >> let's talk about how much has changed in the past two weeks because when you conducted your interview on november 6th, there was i'm going to say a little bit of noise, a little bit of attention, a little bit of scrutiny on bill cosby and these allegations but not nearly as much as we've seen since. why did you ask him in the first place? why did you bring it up at all? >> this had come up in the news in the two or three weeks prior to my interview, and it was generated in part by some sharp criticism from another comedian during a standup comedy routine that got a lot of attention online. that generated some news coverage about this and about the background of past accusations against bill cosby. so it was in the news enough that i felt like i had to ask the question, and it was my job to ask the question, and i saved it for the end of the interview.

>> associated press reporter bret zongker, thanks for being here. >> and cosby's name trending on twitter showing how big and you a awful this story continues to be. the comedian hasn't really addressed the allegations but he said this to a florida newspaper. his comment was incredible. here is what he said. i know people are tired of me not saying anything but a guy doesn't have to answer to innuendos. people should fact check. people should fact check. bill, if you're watching, the problem here is not fact checking. ahead on "reliable sources" sometimes you can learn a lot from a source by noticing what they don't say and you can learn a lot about a news outlet by what they don't do. i'm thinking about fox news and bengha benghazi. save your coffee frome artificial stuff.

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lot of time over the past two years focused on the 2012 terrorist attack in benghazi, libya, and i mean a lot of time. >> the obama white house has been busted. there is now undeniable evidence that they, from the president on down, lied to you, the american people. >> the obama administration was derelict in the benghazi terror attack and was dishonest. >> we know the obama administration lied to us. they misled us and they left americans to die. >> pretty strong words. but when a new benghazi report came out on friday, there was hardly a peep, and maybe that's because the report which was republican led, it was by the house intelligence committee, debunks many of the myths that have run rampant on fox news and in conservative media circles. the report, for example, found no intelligence failure prior to the attack. no stand down order to security personnel. but it did find, and we should point this out, the security overall at the consulate was weak. so how did fox news cover this

report? well, here is just one short example. it was a short story, the end of greta van susteren's show in the speed read section. it was mentioned just one other time. it wasn't mentioned at all on saturday. i have to wonder if fox stop aggressively pushing its theories on benghazi? probably not. the myths may and perhaps will live on. with me to discuss this is veteran journalist and author jeff greenfield and noah rothman. what was your take away from the report on friday night, it seemed like it was a friday night news dump where the house intel committee wanted to have it come out before the weekend so no one would notice. what's your takeaway from the report and the coverage from the report. >> i think it essentially really said that this is hamlin's razor. if you believe it's a conspiracy theory, if you believe the administration, quote, left people to die you were guilty of

buying in into a fallacy that suggested it was malice and not incompetence. what we were dealing with was incompetence. there were others a pecks that shouldn't necessarily give the left a lot of celebration for fox being this organization that was out there on a limb. there were reports that were indicated that cia personnel were given successive polygraphing for example. that was a cnn investigation. that was knocked down by the house intelligence report. the belief that cia intelligence individuals knew this was going to be an attack 24 hours after it occurred, that was also struck down in the report. that comes from the daily beast. we're talking about a variety of other outlets that are not necessarily right wing. >> i think fox had aggressive reporters on this story, as they should. what makes me more uncomfortable is that clip where she was saying that the obama administration left americans to die. it seems to me like that kind of overheated rhetoric, even conspiratorial talk s what might have been deflated boo i this latest report. >> and that's the point.

i think that's why there's a difference between inaccurate reporting by sources and the narrative many people, particularly on fox, embrace, which is this was malicious a lie, part of an administration that can't tell the truth. i live mostly in southern california and listen to a lot of talk radio and every single day like kartage must be destroyed, sean hannity lists benghazi. >> can i put up on the screen this sean hannity graphic from earlier in the week. it lists a bunch of what i would call narratives that the right wing has against obama. actually these are a couple other examples just of fox's coverage over the last two years. special reports about benghazi and things like that. but there's a graphic i want to put up from hannity's show from just a few days ago. it lists a bunch of these stories, not just benghazi, others as well. one says obamacare myth, operation fast and furious, irs targeting scandal and the

bengha benghazi cover-up. it's about a narrative against the president. by the way, some of those stories, interesting story that is should be reported on more but it's about a narrative against the president as opposed to facts. >> there's a unified them you're doing in the show today. whether it's about ferguson or benghazi, people increasingly find it almost impossible to believe that a reporter or analyst, journalist, will come to a story with the question what happened? what happened? because what people bring to a story is we know what happened because it fits the larger universe that i see. it fights the story that a cop was defending himself against a threat to his life or a cop was murdering an unarmed black man or that benghazi is part of a malicious attempt to lie to the american people or that it couldn't be that this beloved figure in american entertainment could be a serial rapist. and i find it depressing that

the longer i'm in this -- at this, which may not be too much longer. >> don't say that. >> the harder it is for people to accept i'm trying to find out what happened. no, you're not. you're part of the cover-up, part of whatever it is. just stay with the story, i need to know what happened. it's something that people i think give us less and less credence for. >> to that point, noah, there are lessons that need to be learned from benghazi. the state department might say they've already been learned. but this report illustrates some security failures. >> quite a bit. >> but if we tune out to it, if we've already tuned out to it, to jeff's point, we're not going to hear the important points. >> reporter actually did a fairly serious bit of damage to, i believe, the state department run under hillary clinton which suggested that these outposts were not properly secured and all the requests for additional security and noting that the deteriorating situation in benghazi needed more security went ignored. i would also contend earlier

that these narratives that supposedly exist on the right are not necessarily exclusive to the right. in december of 2013 "the new york times" ran a very thoroughly researched piece by david kirkpatrick which contended this was an attack that was the result of a spontaneous demonstration gone wrong and it had everything to do with the youtube video. that was not only struck down by the house report but a united nations report. so, i mean, the idea that we have some confirmation bias goes to both sides. >> nor was i even suggesting -- this story happens to be confirmation by us on the right. we're still going to hear i think that the midterm elections were dictated by gerry man dering or voter suppression which from one point of view is palpably nonsense. >> this is in time for thanksgiving where we're going to go to our thanksgiving tables and we can debate obamacare because of grubergate in the news. we can debate immigration and

they're hearing different stories about that and benghazi. i'm sure it will be hashed out over the dinner table. noah and jeff, thank you both for being here. coming up, journalists covering war zones or drug traffickers often hire public security. but in silicon valley? why one tech reporter decided she needed protection for her young children after she wrote some unflattering stories about a particular company which we will name after the break. time for the volkswagen sign-then-drive event. for practically just your signature, you could drive home for the holidays in a german-engineered volkswagen. like the sporty, advanced new jetta... and the 2015 motor trend car of the year all-new golf. if you're wishing for a new volkswagen this season... just about all you need is a finely tuned... pen. hurry in and get zero due at signing, zero down, zero deposit, and zero first month's payment on select new volkswagen models.

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we're for an opens you internet for all.sing. we're for creating more innovation and competition. we're for net neutrality protection. now, here's some news you may find even more surprising. we're comcast. the only isp legally bound by full net neutrality rules. dirty laundry. almost everybody has got some. secrets, embarrassing stories they'd prefer to keep under wraps. unless you're in politics you might never think a team of rerchers might be actively trying to dig up something to you and expose it to the world. those type of tactics might be

spreading. uber executives suggest digging up dirt on journalists. this is from buzz feed from ben smith. s a after emile michael has heard complaining about a journalist. this happened at a dinner thought was off the record. michael was talking about one journalist in particular, sara lacy, who has been very critical of uber calling the company missoge nis stimi missoge nis stick. uber gets you a taxi and they have disavowed michael's comments. he has not been fired. i caught up with lacy when she joined me from san francisco. welcome to the program. >> thank you. >> do you think you were do you think that you were targeted because of being a woman? do you think that there is a gender element here? >> well, it sounds like things from the dinner that i was not

there, and it is a lot of thing a gthat are classic like we hea pr what we hear all of the times and the things that are predicated because aim a woman, and it is a company that is not so incidentally has a lot of the my sojny issues and soy know that it has issues with the gender issues and it is referred to as boober instead of uber, and i don't know if they are going after me because i am a woman, but i don't know emile michael's soul. >> and do you think that it is just because you are a woman? >> well, i had an interview, and in an interview, he said that he

felt that it started with steve jobs that the tech press and the trade press had the press not asking questions, and it is access journalism because if he didn't like what you wrote, he would fight you on it. >> and this is what ben smith said in the statement or the e-mail actually, and what i said was never intend ed ed to descr actions undertake even by me or my company toward you or anyone else, and i was definitively wrong and i am sorry. do you believe the apology and does it mean anything to you? >> well, considering that we saw something in the "huffington post" where mr. michael said, he did not say that at all and he is talking a about coalition of journalist, and they are backtracking from the apologies, and i was saying, i wish i was not right about uber, but when it broke and everyone was horrified and apologizing, and the ceo was calling these comments inhuman and emil michael was saying that the

thoughts that he made in an off the record dinner party did not sit well, and you had seth myers mocking them, and journalists continuing to push u and the writers continuing to ask the questions, and now they have switched the tactics and trying to reframe the kconversation, ad saying that once again, like, it has not happened or, you know, i'm being too paranoid or you had ashton kutcher the celebrity spokesperson calling me a shady journalist, and they did not stick with the policy for 24 hours before they tried to change the nature of what was said, so i don't know how any of us can trust the apology. >> and let me put one of the ashton kutcher comments up on screen, and he e wrote, what is so wrong with digging up dirt on the shady journalists so long as the journalist, and he is using the journalists as a plural for some reason, as long as they are willing to print half truths as facts, yes, we shoulded question the source. it is interesting to bring up steve jobs earlier, because you are saying that this is something that we have seen from others in the tech industry.

does it feel different for some specific reason this time? sgle o, yes. it is way different, when you were, go back to again what emil michael said at the conversation, because people like ashton kutcher are very good at trying to rereframe the narrative around this and he talked about the op-o research, and they are familiar with the truth. the we have seen the documents are research with the taxi industry and the audience know, it is not doing a google search, and if you have a million dollar budget and a six to eight-person team to do op-o research and specifically as he said at the dinner targeting one's families and loved ones and doing it in a way to not be trace badk to uber that they had done this, nobody thinks that is remotely ethical and anyone who cares at all about the first amendment and anyone who cares about the rights of journalists thinks it

is horrifying and maybe steve jobs did something like that and nobody was stupid enough to brag about it at a dinner in front of ben smith, but i don't know of a story of a story about that having been done about that, but i trace it back to a dinner back spring where he said this is a political campaign and hiring political strategist, and we are going to be throwing the mud and he said, we are going to destroy the opposition, and i thought that he meant taxi companies and not me and my kids. >> and i think that other companies or corporations or governments do engage in this kind of activity and maybe it is new for silicon valley and uber -- >> you think they go through the medical records and the trash and plant stories about -- am i re really naive? >> i think that are there are companies who have engaged in the practices, yes. at least one television network that keeps the files on e reporters and that type of thing that happens and it does not make it right and ethical, and we need to call it out, but what we are talking about is

journalists as fair game or not, a and to your point, if you do the opposition research, is the opposition including journalists, and this is what is unk uncomfortable about this, and as a result, nasty message online from the uber supporters and the the fan, and true that you have had personal security and bodyguards this week? >> you know, i have said before i have taken all of this very, very seriously. i have young kids, and i don't mess around with that. i had someone saying they were coming after my family, and he is a very high profile story, and i have decided or i have been told it is not a great idea to detail security. you have it for a reason. but i have had to change about how i go about life. >> thank you, sarah lacy, for being here this morning. >> thank you. and a whole lot of media news this week, so we will be right back with more.

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that is all for this televised edition of "reliable sources. " ""on cnn.com, we have more than 20 stories. dvr me for next week and send me a tweet about the show, and stay tune ed for "state of the union" with candy crowley. no cover-up, no conspiracy but plenty of confusion. a new bipartisan report on benghazi goes inside the cia. what really happened? we'll get at the facts with republicans lindsey graham and democrat adam schiff. then -- >> to those members of congress that question my authority, i have one answer, pass a bill. >> barack obama goes it alone on immigration. republicans say he's breaking the law. what will they try to do about it? former senator rick santorum on the price of the presidential order.