>> for days i have been calling his personal publicist, never getting a call back. >> good to have you on the program. thank you very much. good evening. you are in the cnn newsroom. the missouri grand jury considering criminal charges against officer darren wilson in the shooting death of michael brown will reconvene tomorrow. we don't know when they might reach a decision. once they decide, local officials are telling us we could get the news quickly. instead of as you had previously heard the 48-hour delay between the decision and it becoming public. let's go to don lemon live in ferguson. don, you spoke with a resident a few minutes ago. what's the sense on the street there?

railroad i d >> reporter: i did. she said i saw you out here. i'm glad you are back. i didn't get to speak you to the last time you were here because it was so much chaos. she came over and she hugged all of our crew, an african-american resident. she lives beyond us here. she said maybe a quarter mile behind us. she said, i am -- it's not like what you see on television. this is her estimation. she said -- her name is shirley. was her name shirley? i forget. she said, i'm praying for the safety of the officer. i'm praying for the family and for the protesters. i don't want violence in my community. she believes that most people in her community feel the same way. she wants the world -- she wanted us to hear that so we could tell it to the world. that's the sentiment i'm getting here. yes, people are upset. they have the right to protest. rightfully so. many people are upset because they feel that an unarmed team ager was killed. they have the right to protest. no one is denying that. but, again, as i have been

saying since i got here to you, poppy, it's not the way it's being made out on social media and in much of the mainstream media. the streets of ferguson are not on fire. people are not enraged. you don't walk up to them and they go, i'm so upset. most people want peace and fairness. >> don, we were talking about this last hour a little bit. i have had people come to me, cnn viewers and say, do you think you are complicit in this? do you think you are making things bigger than they are? so you are there in the middle of it. you will be live from there tomorrow night. as a journalist when you look at how you cover this, it's an important story to cover, people do have feelings and they want them heard. how do you walk that line? >> reporter: it's very legitimate. i say because i lived in st. louis and i know that there's an issue, not only in st. louis, not only in ferguson, there's an issue -- there's a disconnect between the police department and people in the community,

especially between the police department and african-americans and many time african-american men. that has to be dealt with. but that is also separate and apart from violence. the violence overshadowed the legitimate part of the story. but also, there's a dead teenager at the center of this. there's also a police officer whose reputation and livelihood and life is on the line as well. we must remember that. we have to report that side of the story. we have to report the brown side of the story and the protesters' side of the story as well. i have to tell you quite honestly, as i sometimes am sitting in my office and looking up and watching the cable networks and you see ferguson, ferguson, ferguson, there's an impending announcement about something, and on friday i got anxiety. oh, my gosh. when i got here, that subsided. if you pay attention to twitter, social media you see people so enraged on social media and you don't find that when you come

here. >> don, thank you for the reporting. we know you will be there live all day tomorrow and throughout. appreciate it. let's talk more about the grand jury decision. mark and joey join us. joey, the fact that these 12 grand jurors continue to meet, we know they will meet tomorrow. we thought maybe a decision friday. we still don't know if they will hear more evidence. are you concerned that maybe there might be a deadlock that nine can't get on the same page? are you glad they are taking their time? >> in a word, i'm not concerned. let me tell you why. the grand jury in evaluating this, number one, unlike another grand jury where the evidence is tailored to get an indictment or given enough to find probable cause, this case is different. they are getting everything. so the extent they are getting everything, that takes time. number two, in addition to that, we know that they're not meeting every day. unlike a regular trial, you impanel a jury and you work 9:00 to 5:00. that's not what's happening.

they meet once a week and where they can agree. finally, think about what they're deciding. they have to go through what we have been talking about. is it murder one? is it murder two? is it manslaughter? is it involuntary manslaughter? is it nothing? was there a threat? in light of all the circumstances, i think that's exactly what they should be doing and it's not a delay. it's just the natural course of events. i'm unconcerned based on the three factors. >> mark, you have said you believe it's a mistake on the side of the defense counsel for officer wilson that he -- the lawyer hasn't been out there and that he hasn't put his client out there as well. no one has seen him. no one has heard his voice. ultimately, that shouldn't impact what the grand jury decides. you are saying in the court of public opinion? >> definitely. 20 years ago i wouldn't say that. in 2014, the idea of having a national lly pu lly publicized

may have an impact on the grand jury. we know they are listening, watching tv. they could be watching us right now. if they are not getting anything from darren wilson -- >> they can do that. >> they could be filling in the void with their own speculation. i'm not saying you should say i'm this or that. but just have a media presence, just -- >> an inner viterview? >> he did take a life. he can acknowledge having taken a life. that he did do. justify, that will be up to the grand jury. but at least have the human side of it saying i'm sorry to the brown family, because your son is not here because of my actions. >> stick with us. more to talk about this. we will take a quick break. we will talk about this important life story. greek life. now some say the organizations at the heart of the schools are at the problem with sexual

abuse. women who dare to speak out say they feel like traitors. we will discuss. a prominent democratic fund-raiser and supporter of obama arrested on sex charges. the alleged charges a 15-year-old boy. for over a decade,

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for the human rights campaign, the politically influential gay rights group he co-founded. >> to my supporter terry bean, co-founder of hrc -- >> now police say bean, who is 66, has been arrested in oregon, charged with sodomy and sex abuse of an underage boy reportedly a 15-year-old. also arrested on the same charges, 25-year-old kyle lawson, identified in news reports as bean's former boyfriend. in a statement, bean's lawyer says, over the course of several months in 2013 and 2014, terry was the victim of an extortion ring led by several men known to law enforcement. this arrest is connected to the ongoing investigation of that case in which mr. bean has fully cooperated. no allegations against terry bean should be taken at face value. we look forward to the opportunity to clear his name. l lawson's former attorney said he

stumbled upon a camera bean used to secretly record sexual encounters with him and other men, too screen shots and hoped to secure money from bean in an exchange for their return. that led bean to allege extortion. aaron mcpike, cnn, the white house. >> thank you for that. let's combri in our legal analysts, mark and joey are back with me, both criminkricriminal attorneys. bean's lawyer is saying my client is a victim, being extorted. serious charges. what kind of punishment could he phase? >> it's according to how they charge him and what they charge him with. it can go from a misdemeanor to a felony. >> a misdemeanor? >> it's the type of act. >> just before we came back, we were talking about this. we were surprised to know that depending upon the act, one charge carries -- it's a many demeanor carrying a year in jail and a c felony carried five years in jail for a crime

against a youth. not suggesting he is guilty. but we're surprised. >> having said that, if they charge it the right way, if there's a true what we call a penetration act it could be a more serious felony. that could be years in prison. >> in terms of whether this should be looked at on a state or federal level -- >> this is a state case. that's the way it's always -- >> also, what we are hearing, it's new in the reporting, there is word there may have been a hidden camera that may have captured this alleged action, if it did happen. what does that mean if we see any video evidence? the attorney for bean is saying, this is -- >> extortion. right. listen, any evidence, of course, poppy, in this day and age -- we see it now where people have cell phones and there's other surveillance information. but it's very compelling. just imagine putting something like that before the jury. it's proof positive. what are you going to say? it's not authentic? it's not my client? it's not something that depicts

what you think you see. >> or you are seeing part of this. it could be argued that. remember, poppy, based upon the age of the alleged vehic ed vic that it happened is the problem. >> we haven't heard anything from the president on this, the democratic party. does that surprise you at all? >> i think everyone on that side is going to be very silent unless they know what's going on. we talked about a defense having a media presence in a high-profile case. one thing i don't think you should do is allege that the victim or the presumed victim is extorting you until you know what's going on. >> that was not a good strategy. >> absolutely not. stay silent until you know more than you know now. >> thank you. we appreciate it. we will be back in a moment with you. we will talk about this. imagine there's a place where according to one rolling stone reporter rape is seen as "regrettable but inevitable." would you feel safe sending your

daughter to such a place? what if we told you this was one of the country's most prestigious universities? we will talk about it next. many people are asking thankfully simpler questions about college. like, is it worth it? is it worth all the money? if you are wondering about that, you are not going to want to miss what's on at 9:00 p.m., the original film, ivory tower. here is a clip. >> there's going to be a collapse, there's going to be a crisis. it gets to the price where the price of a degree is so high that people don't want to pay for it anymore. >> this is not what most colleges want to talk about. they want to pretend education is something non-financial. these are very noble ideals. but they don't make sense when people are taking on $100,000, $200,000 in student debt. the holiday season is here,

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i want to warn you that the next story we are about to report is not appropriate for children. if you have young kids, you may want to take them out of the room for this. it's about the university of virginia where they have

suspended all fraternities after an article talked about an alleged gang rape at a frat house of a young girl, a freshman girl named ja ed jacki. sabrina joins me now. thank you for being here and this reporting. . >> thank you for having me. >> i want to read all our viewers a quote from your article on this student. he had name is jackie. what she went through inside the fraternity house, what she says she went through. in part you write, when you when yet another hand clamped over her hand jackie bit it and the hand became a punch. she says seven men took turns raping her. she remembers how they called each other nicknames like armpit and blanket. you use not their real names in

this report of the men. i'm wondering, what has happened to them now that jackie has come forward with these allegations? you detail how she finally went to the school and the authorities there. are they still walking around on campus? >> they are walking around as though nothing has happened. jackie did go to the school to report her allegations. and the school did absolutely nothing. in fact, even when jackie went to them a year later to tell them that two other girls had told her that they, too, had been gang raped at the same fraternity, the administration also did nothing. not only to pursue these girls' cases but they also did nothing to warn the campus that there had been these allegations at a fraternity that was holding parties every weekend. >> we heard from the president of the university who did take swift action in suspending all the fraternities until january. some people want to see a lot more than that. but the president said the

wrongs described in the article are appalling and have caused us to re-examine our responsibility to the community. this will require institutional change, cultural change and legislative change and it won't be easy. what kind of change needs to happen? you spent months there on the ground reporting this. >> i'm encouraged to hear the words that she's using. those are strong words. but i'm less interested in the words and more interested in the actions that they are going to take. this is a situation that needs a lot of fixing. it's a situation where seemingly fraternities are calling the shots, where sexual assault is rampant, where rape victims are afraid and discouraged from coming forward by both their peers and discouraged by administrator frs from filing reports. >> go ahead. >> those few rape survivors who do persist in filing reports,

very few find the outcome satisfying, the perpetrators are very rarely penalized. i would say that this university really has its hands full. >> it was amazing to me some of the statistics you pointed out. one in five college students sexually assaulted. only 12% report it. the fact that for jackie after this happened, minutes after this happened, she walks out from the fraternity house on the corner waiting for her friends to pick her up. she has blood on her dress. when they come, they say, are you really sure you want to report this to the police? do you really want to go to the hospital? do you really want to be known as that girl? that is unbelievable to me that even her peers, many of them didn't stand by her. >> i would say of all the shocking things that i discovered in my reporting, that was possibly the most shocking, that jackie's friends discouraged her from moving forward. they told her that her reputation would be shot. she wouldn't be allowed to go to

any fraternity parties. they told her that she was being a baby and that she should move on. believe it or not, that was actually the response that most of the rape victims at uva that i spoke with got from their peers. they were discouraged from even really considering it a trauma or a crime. they were more encouraged to see it as a misunderstanding, a party foul, something to sort of brush off, move on and just get back to the party scene. >> to be clear, your article details seven men gang raping allegedly gang raping this young woman. this is, you know, unbelievable and difficult to even comprehend. stay with me. i want to bring in also a clinical psychologist and our legal analyst joey jackson to continue this conversation with us. joey, should it be legal for universities to be able to handle things like this, allegations like this internally and give victims the option of not taking it to the police and

the authorities? >> the short answer is, absolutely not. very disturbing in terms of the report. i read the article, the "rolling stones" article and it's disturbing is an under statement for sure. there is an act from 1990. it's a federal statute under title 19. what it does -- title 9, excuse me. universities are mandatory reporters. there are people in the universities who have to report these incidents and they have to document even all crimes that occur on campus. you know, interestingly enough, two other things need to be raised about this. the first is, when victims don't report, obviously, critical evidence is washed away and that type of thing. but there's more to it than that. you can go forward and you can have a very compelling prosecution in the event the police are ultimately made aware of it, because you have recent outcry victims. in that article she went to someone. those people can testify in front of a jury at some later

time. the second thing, very briefly, is there's no statute of limitations on rape in this jurisdiction. the charge is viable in virginia. to the extent she goes forward now, it could be very compelling when the jury hears about this. >> to you, at the same time, you have to be so thoughtful and careful about the victim's feelings. not all victims understandably want to go to the police right away. how do you get justice and do that? >> well, what needs to happen as we saw in the article, you have to change the culture at the school, not only do you protect the victim and make sure that she's supported in every way possible, but you have to encourage the victims to report. if you don't have that, then you are going to have friends -- so-called friends who tell her, do you really want do this? do you want this reputation? that becomes part of the culture where rape becomes institutionalized in that particular kind of a university. all of that has to be changed.

the fish stinks from the head down in this kind of a situation. we have to support the victims but we have to get them to report. >> sabrina, how is jackie doing now? >> jackie is still incredibly traumatized by what happened to her. she feels incredibly empowered and proud she was able to come forward and tell her story. it has been a really grad phiing for her that there's been in outpouring of support for her. i have gotten an outpouring of messages from other uva survivors -- rape survivors who are still students or graduates saying similar things happened to them and offering their support to jackie. all of that has bolstered her and will help her along in her healing. >> i can't imagine what it's like for her to even come forward and be able to tell this story and share this story. she is not alone in it. it's tragic. thank you so much for the

reporting and bringing this to light, sabrina. >> thank you. >> and jeff and joey, thank you as well. coming up next, the u.s. and iran are on the verge of a historic -- possibly a historic nuclear deal. if it falls through, some think the fallout could be catastrophic. also, ferguson, missouri, on edge. protesters in the city are trying to push for peace ahead. you will hear from one woman who knows firsthand how bad the clashes can get.

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deadline tomorrow. i'm talking about one of the most delicate diplomatic challenging facing world powers today. how much to restrict iran and its nuclear program. u.s. secretary of state john kerry is in vienna along with his counterparts. we are hearing that this attempt to get a deal may be extended in hopes that what john kerry calls

big gaps in the negotiations can be closed. let's bring in our senior political analyst. thank you for being here. let me give with you, david. the question is how long can these be extended. but also, do you want to let perfect be the enemy of the good? >> you never do in diplomacy if you can. even so, it would be a great disappointment if they don't reach an agreement. they extended it beyond the six months that were originally anticipated. it's dangerous if you don't reach an agreement tomorrow. all signs point to the fact they will seek an extension. if they go for an extension, they will have one eye on the senate knowing that the -- >> they have to agree? >> they will see if they get a deadline before the senate gets there. republicans are likely to push for tougher sanctions. >> do you agree this will likely come if we are going to see an agreement before january? >> if we're going to see an

agreement, it has to come before january. i think they want to take the momentum they have now for all the talk about big gaps, they feel they are close. i don't think they would have foreign ministers arriving in vienna today if they didn't feel that they could build on this momentum and push it forward. david is right about the senate. once it goes over to republican control, it's going to be almost impossible to get a deal with iranians through the senate. there's the problem on the iranian side, the conservatives in iran, even the supreme leader are not wildly enthusiastic about this bama has congress he answer to. you have the supreme leader in iran. >> i don't think you can blame it only on the two wings of each party. the fundamentally, they have been trying very hard to make a deal. they have been working very, very hard. chris is right, the foreign ministers are coming because they realize how important this is. this is -- >> put it in context.

you have covered numerous administrations throughout the years. how big is this. >> i just came back from the middle east. i must tell you, it's bigger in that region than here in america. we have ferguson, we have other things we are paying attention to. in the middle east, it's a very big deal. it can be destabilizing if we don't get a deal. we have to get some kind of agreement which brings the iran nuclear program into a zone of safety and move toward lifting the sanctions. that's the ultimate goal. in deal will mean an arms race in the middle east. iranians will try to -- it's what the president has been saying all along. we have to get a deal to -- the saudis are not going to watch the iranians make a bomb without doing something. >> as recently as yesterday we heard john kerry describe the gaps as big gaps. for the average american, what does that mean? where wh what are the biggest sticking problems? >> the problem are they would

like to see the nuclear program done away with. that's the starting point from the united states point of view. >> that's not going to happen. >> that's not going to happen. that's not going to come close to happening. the question is how far you roll it back. the answer is not very far. you can freeze it, what's been done, which is what's happened over the last year. you are not going to get take away the technology, you're no going to take away the ability to do that. at the same time, the iranians are saying, you have to raise the sanctions. you can't just create a situation where you impose the sanctions today, you lift them tomorrow and then when you decide to you reimpose them. we have to have a steady environment from a businessmen need to know they can invest in the country. >> david? >> thwo big issues. how much a capacity do hef theye to make a bomb? the view was they have to d dismantle everything.

we have compromised to allow them something. how much do we allow them? >> in these negotiations, is this more reliable to get it done this time around? >> we don't know for sure. if you talk to people in the middle east they will say, he gives promises of being more moderate. is he just a different mouth piece for a government still very, very -- >> i heard that from protesters. in your piece today you say this is a question of war or peace. can it be overemphasized what a big deal this is? >> i don't think it can be. it's a question of war or peace. if you look back two years ago we were wondering when israel was going to attack iran. if that happened and when it happened, would the united states be drawn into a massive war with iran in the middle east. that will reemerge as the issue if these talks fail. >> i agree with that. the middle ground is the extension. but it postpones the hour of reckoning.

>> wow. we have our correspondents in vienna watching this closely. as soon as we get an update, we will bring it to our viewers. can something good come out of what could be chaos in ferguson after the grand jury's announcement? we don't know what will happen. we are watching. we will speak with someone who has seen protesters and police at their worst. what does she expect to see? that's next. so,as my personal financial psychic, i'm sure you know what this meeting is about. yes, a raise. i'm letting you go. i knew that. you see, this is my amerivest managed... balances. no. portfolio. and if doesn't perform well for two consecutive gold. quarters. quarters...yup. then amerivest gives me back their advisory... stocks. fees. fees. fees for those quarters. yeah. so, i'm confident i'm in good hands. for all the confidence you need. td ameritrade. you got this.

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the wait may soon be over in ferguson, missouri. local government officials tell cnn if the grand jury reaches a decision tomorrow, well, then after it reconvenes, a public announcement may soon follow. officials may scrap that planned 48-hour window between the decision and when they make the decision public. we know the grand jury is considering whether ferguson police officer darren wilson should be indicted for fatally shooting an unarmed black teenager. don, you have been there throughout. you were there for a long time after this happened. you are back now. what's it like? what's the sense of people in ferguson right now? >> reporter: i didn't just stay here and then go away and then just came back. have i been back off and on throughout the entire time and talking to people here, doing stories on people here. i have been here and seen a lot. i have seen the difference in the community since the initial unrest. gradually, i do think it's going

better. a better person to talk about this is the reverent lampkin. she's from the saint john church. she joins us now. am i wrong? things have changed? they have gotten better, don't you think? still a lot to work out. what's your assessment? >> in terms of protesters, people are peaceful. there have been a lot of organized protests, very planned, choreographed, dramatic even. a lot of training for protesters and non-violent resistance, people for training to be peacekeepers, medic training, deescalation training. >> reporter: not as much violence? >> no violence. >> reporter: do you think ferguson is being portrayed fairly? >> no. i think that -- as i watch media, it looks like we are ready to go burn down the city and tear everything up. that's totally not true.

people are loud, protesters are -- we are loud, we are intense. we block off traffic. we aren't doing violent things. there are not plans in the general population to do violence. >> reporter: you were hit by a rubber bullet. >> wooden pellet. >> reporter: it was part of a conversation about the overmi overmilitarization of police departments. do you find that here still? >> i do. there are times when there are certain battalions out that it's very clear they have been trained in civil disobedience and their stance is more relaxed. but they are still coming out in riot gear when we are out there with nothing. >> reporter: as we wait for some sort of a decision, what do you think is going to happen once there is a decision, depending on what -- do you think it's going to make a difference depending on what the decision is? do you think there's going to be violence? >> i still don't think there's

going to be violence. might there be faction groups? maybe so. in terms of just us here on the ground, people who have been in this movement for the past 109 days now, no, we have planned actions and we have planned activities to do, but we are not planning violence. >> reporter: what about the relationship between police and the community? do you think that has improved or a work in progress? >> it's a work in progress. there has been intentional effort on the part of what they call the unified command to be in the neighborhood talking to different groups, protesters. there has been some intentional outreach. over and over again we say, our angst isn't with individuals. it's with the system. so until the system changes, we will continue protesting the system and unfortunately, our neighborhood cops are the guys on the front line of the system. >> reporter: thank you. i appreciate it. >> you are welcome.

>> reporter: poppy, back to you. coming from someone who has been here the entire time, she has been involved here trying to get the police and community to work together. >> let's hope we see that more this time. it sounds like the reflection of what's on the streets are people are going to make their voices heard. a large majority wanted to be heard in a peaceful way. a civil rights leader says if officer wilson is not charged, then it will be a miscarriage of justice. ahead, hear the president's take on that and whether our experts agree or not. (receptionist) gunderman group. gunderman group is growing. getting in a groove. growth is gratifying. goal is to grow. gotta get greater growth. i just talked to ups. they got expert advise, special discounts, new technologies. like smart pick ups. they'll only show up when you print a label and it's automatic. we save time and money. time? money? time and money. awesome. awesome! awesome! awesome! awesome! (all) awesome! i love logistics.

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well, civil rights leader and georgia congressman john lewis says it will be a miscarriage of justice if there is no indictment of officer wilson. he compares ferguson to the iconic moment in history. earlier, president obama was asked if he agreed. >> i love john, i didn't see the quote. so i don't want to comment on what john specifically said, but i will say this, that the kinds of ongoing problems we have with police and communities of color around the country are not of the sort that we saw in selma. we're not talking about systematic segregation or

discrimination. they are solvable problems if, in fact, law enforcement officials are open to the kind of training that, and best practices that we've seen instituted in a lot of parts of the country. >> all right, i'm going to bring in mark lamont hill and gentlemen, before i ask you my first question, i do want to read our viewers the quote that came from john lewis. i think what is happening is moving to that point where there will be the same feeling and climate and environment that we had in selma. selma was the turning point, and i think what happened in ferguson will be the turning point. let me turn to you, kevin, do you agree, putting it in that context that the congressman has? >> absolutely not. i think john lewis has lost his mind. the idea that there's some new civil rights movement afoot, you're looking at two of them

right now, doing amazing things all over this country. ferguson, missouri has suddenly become the hotbed of all this racial tension. when you look at this town, and don said it earlier. you have this amazing town, full of amazing black people doing fantastic things, and i don't know what his agenda would be to say something like that, but to me, it's absurd. >> yeah, i, i totally -- >> mark, i know you disagree. but don lemon has also been reporting on the ground about the contact in terms of the strained race relations that many have felt there in ferguson, especially as some residents have told us and our correspondents on the ground between residents and authority figures, including the police. mark? >> yeah. and i totally agree that that happens. for the record, yeah. i think this is another selma-like moment. yes, there are black professionals now in 2014. there were black professionals

in the 1960s. martin luther king was one of them. he had a ph.d.. there's no correlation of a black educational class versus this. it is a wonderful town with wonderful people, but that doesn't mitigate the fact that black men are being pulled over more, incarcerated more, going to sub-standard schools more, not just men, men and women. when i go out in the streets, and i've spent the last few days here and many weeks here talking to people. and that's exactly what they're talking about. they feel oppressed, harassed, and they feel like this is happening systemically. i disagree with president obama. this is a systemic issue. >> look, poppy, one of the things that mark talks about is this systemic thing, and the statistics on this stuff, this

is a predominantly black area. so the majority of the people who are going to be pulled over and all that happens are going to happen to the predominant people. >> that's -- >> hold on a minute -- >> that's not how statistics work. >> let him finish, and then can you answer. >> yeah, please. >> they were number three in terms of how much the people liked what was happening in ferguson. mark comes in. he talks to a few people. i live here. i'm on the ground here. i don't just talk to somebody when i come in. i'm talking to people every day. the problems these people talk to in terms of this 1960s stuff that's supposedly happening is utterly ridiculous. these very police officers have to go back into the black communities and serve these very people who are dealing with homicides, rape, other atrocities that are happening, and they're setting up the

police for failure because of nonsense. that's what this is about. >> mark, mark, i know -- go ahead. >> please, i didn't mean to interrupt you, poppy, go ahead. >> i know you were going back and forth with kevin about the statistics. go ahead and then i'd like your reaction to what he said. >> as a trained social scientist, i can tell you it's not purely about the aggregate number of black people. we mean in relation to the population. we're still overrepresented and being pulled over, being arrested. that's scientifically incorrect. i don't live here. i agree with that. but this is not something unique to ferguson. this is a selma-like moment around the country. when you go to city to city, state to state, you see young people black and brown and pour and outside and as a consequence of being young, black, poor and

outside, ferguson happens every 28 hours. the question is, it doesn't happen in this way at this time. >> it's happening -- >> kevin, quickly, to you, you said you don't agree with congressman john lewis said. what do you attribute the rising up of the huge amount of people in ferguson after the shooting. what do you attribute that to? >> look. we've been trained to have this political correct idea that we're supposed to rise up when something like this happens. the atrocity that it is, it isn't -- i would defy anybody, i would doughfy mark to tell me who's the last kid killed in chicago or l.a. or d.c. we don't know. but when something like this happens we raise it to a level it should never be at, and it's unfortunate. but the thing that mark doesn't want to talk about is in every one of those instances, it's controlled by democrats,

controlled by people who've done nothing for blacks except marginalize us. if you want to do the connective tissue, look at liberalism. >> that's untrue. black people are executed more than other people as well. you go to texas, black people are executed so much. texas is republican. it's a systemic epidemic. >> it's anecdotal. >> it's not anecdotal. anecdotal would be the story you just told. >> we have to leave it there. appreciate your time. coming up on cnn, do police too often use executive force? watch soledad o'brien's report next. now there's even more of the amazing cinnamon taste you love on cinnamon toast crunch. crave those crazy squares even more. to build something smarter. ♪ some come here to build something stronger.

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>> announcer: the following is a cnn special presentation. >> i did nothing. i did nothing. >> the police out here is crazy. nobody trusts it. so i decided to pull out my camera every time they come over here. >> reporter: new york city police officers are about to take down eric garner. he's suspected of selling loosies, or loose cigarettes. >> at any point it could be you.