the notion that white cops are out there killing white people is ridiculous. it is plat out ridiculous. >> this is cnn tonight, and i'm don lemon and this is the always outspoken charles barkley, and there is a lot more where that came from and you will hear from him in a moment. >> and plus, michael brown's cow si a -- cousin, and wh he says about the grand jury decision will shock you. and also, are brutal assaults being swept under the rug, and are students in danger at their own schools? we have a whole lot to get to, but i want to e begin with charles barkley, and my cnn colleague brooke baldwin is h e

here, and you sat down with charles barkley with his no holds barred interview for television. >> let's begin with the news of the day that michael brown's stepdad is being prosecuted for saying eight times "burn this b -- down" the day of the grand jury indictment was handed down can, and do you think that he should be prosecuted for that? >> well, no, not under the circumstance, and in is an awful incident for everybody, and it is clouding the discussion. and it is a improbable situation, and so much noise going on that you don't get to the crux of the situation that you need to be discussing, so no, i don't believe they should pursue charges against him. >> and what about the walk-out s a and the protest, and you have

caught some slack about -- >> i have not gotten any slack, because i don't do the social immediate yand i don't sit around and watch what people think about me -- >> and the scumbag comment, and talk about that? >> when you loot other people's property, that is what you are. when you do that to other people's property, you don't want people to do that to you, and the back to the stepdad, he didn't want people to do it to his house. it is a bunch of noise, but people who protest peacefully, that is what this country is bit on, and i don't have any problem with that, but to be burning people's property, and burning police cars and looting people's store stores, and that is 100% ridiculous. >> do you think that with we would be seeing all of that had been a black police officer? had darren wilson had been black, and all of the facts remaining the same, we would still have a slain 18-year-old, would the outrage be there? >> no, because we have a racial issue h this country. we have always had a racial

issue u in the country, and the biggest problem with it is that we never discuss race until something bad happens, and we never have meaningful dialogue over a cold beer when things are going good, with but what happens is that everybody, when something bad happens, everybody a has a tribe mentality, and everybody wants to protect their own tribe whether they are right or wrong. >> what do you mean right or wrong? >> we have all god bad characters this the group. and we all have bad character, and so my grandmother said to judge everybody on their own merit merits and you don't judge everybody by the other jackass and black is not always right and white is not always wrong. and you have bad apples who are trying to take advantage of the situation, and that is unfortunate, because this is serious, and somebody lost a child. this is something that we need to seriously sit down to discuss and find out what went wrong, but let me say this that the notion that white cops are out there killing black people is

ridiculous. it is flat out ridiculous, and i challenge any black person to try to make that point. this notion that cops -- and the cops are actually awesome, and they are the only thing in to get tow from the between the place being the wild, wild west. so this notion that cops are out there killing the black men is ridiculous, and i hate that narrative coming out of this entire situation. and the thing that bothers me the most, brooke, is the notion that all of the people are standing here saying that if they indict him, they were already going to riot. >> no matter if there was an indictment or not? >> no question, because your mind does not go from the let me sit here and listen and let me just go to start burning down the police cars and tearing down buildings. and that just does not happen. >> and let me go back to the notion of the white cops killing the black people o. what about the case where we are

waiting for the results to come down from the grand jury on eric garner here in new york. and one thing in ferguson where you see the aud e owe, and you see the video, and the cops are surrounding him -- >> yes, yes. >> and it is a homicide where he dies -- >> i don't think it is a homicide. >> what was it? it was a choke hold and you see it. >> well, the cops are trying to arrest him, and they got a little aggressive, and excessive force you know, something like that the, but to go right to murder -- brooke, when the cops are trying to arrest you, and if you fight back, things are going to go wrong. it does not mean that i don't think they were trying to kill mr. garner. he was a big man. and they tried to get him down. >> you know, i am hearing so much from different people, and friend friends and people who come on my show, and african-americans say, listen, brooke, i was taught at a young age and i have

different rules than you do when i deal with the police, and there is a lot of to getting that the off of people's chest right now, because of what happened in ferguson, and there is a lot of the anger, and the frustration, and what can we as a country do with that, this energy right now. >> and first of all, we can open the dialogue and that is with what i did was to e open dialogue. and prook, brook, in fairness, there are plaque people out -- brooke, if in fairness, there are black people out there who are crooks. and the only time that the cops come into your neighborhood is when things are going wrong. and that is the only time ta we interact with the cops. and we, we as black people, we have a lot of crooks. we can't just wait until something like this happens. we have to look at ourselves in the mir roshgs and there is a reason that they racially

profile us in the way they do. sometimes it is wrong, and sometimes it is right. aed on the say that with we don't have any responsibility is disingenuous o. >> and how can the president help this? the first african-american president, and he held meetings at the white house, and should he be going to ferguson? >> no. that is another thing that an y annoys me about this whole sich way, brooke. every time something happens in the black community, we have the same cast of sad character, and we don't have to have al sharpton go there and i'm not disparaging mr. krunk, because of what happened in florida with trayvon's family, and god bless them, but we have the same sad cast of black character, and we need strong black men in st. louis to stand up, and say, hey, let's handle this situation? >> where are they? >> that bothers me. i guarantee you if something happened in my life, i got this

the, and i can handle this. i can handle, and i don't e need people, a and i fend i feel lik handle the situation, and i don't need people coming are from florida or new york, because i am a strong black man, and i can handle this. >> and now, ferguson, and ray rice. when we see the elevator situation where he knocked his fiancee out cold, and we know that ray rice is going to be eligible to play, and is a team going to pick him up? >> no, i do not. ray rice made a terrible mistake. it is going to take courage, and it is going to take courage, but i hope somebody gives him a another chance. >> why does he need a second chance, he knocked a woman out cold. >> you cannot hit a woman, and let me repeat that, because you cannot e ever hit a woman.

and let me the tell you, i have been disgusted with roger goodell, and other, because if you hit a woman one time, you are going be suspended for six months, and let the legal process play out like you did with ray mcdonald in san francisco, but then a second time, to have it with this quote, unquote conduct policy, and this is atrocious, and you can't do it again. >> and whew. >> and he does not hold out. i heard him say he is not going to hold out. and this is what he says, we have a lot of crooks as afric african-american, and paraphrasing here, and we act like we hold no responsibility, and it is just ridiculous. what do you say to that? >> i think that he kept going about it, and we talked for half an hour, and let me say that i am grateful for the time from

him, and we are the only outlet that we are talking to the, a and he is pointing to the noise. he says that we are a society that grabs on the headlines, and he is not on social media, and he is never ever going to be on twitter, a hend says that we gravitate to 140 characters or less and he has not read the grand jury testimony from ferguson, and -- >> it is a sound bite society, and he says that and he has a point, but he takes a a lot of criticism, and he is called uncle tom a lot, and he does not care, does he. >> i said, chuck, do you have thick skin or what, and he said, brooke, it is not thick skin. he said, whatever reason, among white people, you can disagree, and among blacks, i have just noticed that growing up, and he is from leeds, alabama, and he

said, you have to p be cabe cale s, uncle tom, and it is an entire narrative. >> and a he said that people make up their mind without looking at the thenarrative. and he said he would not pay attention to the story until he looked at the evidence. >> and so he said that he would not speak about it, because he said that he hearded about it, and -- >> ferguson? . >> and talking about ferguson and michael brown family, and he said that his heart wasn't out to the family, and the kid was running from the police officer as put out there, and then shot multiple times in the back, and then there is a motion and the fact, and the facts start piling up, and then once the grand jury decision was made public, a nd then if if you take the time the, and it is at lot of information, but if if you look at the testimony, and the forensic evidence and he said, my god, i have been taking this 180 based on this this initial

bits and pieces to now realizing that he was referencing the autopsy bullet holes with me, and realizing that it was not the case. and his heart goes out to michael brown's family, but he believes that the process played out, and that -- >> people just don't like the outcome. >> and people would have rioted no matter what. >> i have to run, and you know how it works, but i have heard the sentiment from the police officer, and he is hearing the same thing like the cops feel like they have been given the short -- >> and you are potentially on your own based on what has happened and fear of the entanglements with the african-american, and we are worried now, and worried with the interactions of the african-american, and with we don't want you to be on your own, but it is on circles. >> and you will see the full interview with charles barkley tomorrow 2:00 p.m. tomorrow eastern with brooke baldwin.

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dr. ben carson, not widely known outside of the kon s

conservative political circles, but it is changing, because his star is rising among the republicans, and we will will talk about him in a moment, but i want to get a reaction from charles barkley from michael smerconish and ben jones, and what an interview, michael, that you heard from charles barkley and he agrees with the grand jury, and do you agree with him? >> i do agree with him. the handling of the grand jury was imperfect, but it came to the correct conclusion, but when all of the evidence was evaluated there is no conceivable way that if there had been a conceivable criminal trial there would have been g l guilty with beyond the reasonable doubt of four of the five charges for the officer darren wilson. >> he is at odds with some af r african-americans or black america that they don't trust the ruling, and he is at odds with it? >> e e kyes, that is true, beca

you have black americans in ferguson who say they don't trust this prosecutor at all, and they wanted a special prosecutor from the government, and that is true, because you saw leak after leak, and behavior from the prosecutor that seemed to be hostile. be but honestly, barkley went far beyond just saying that he ing a e greed or disagreed with that actual grand jury. he said a lot of things that i just thought that were ip flam toir, and the worst -- inflammatory, and the worst is that african-americans concerned about this case were anti-cop, and that is very dangerous, because african-americans want better policing and not no policing. and they should not have to choose between no policing or street violence and why not a conversation about improving policing, and i thought that him going after african-americans concern

concerned about as if we have no standing at all was very, very irresponsible. >> why do you think it is irresponsible? >> well, listen, the african-american community is perfect, but no community is perfect, and he says that there is a lot of crooks in our community, and there is a lot of crooks in the white community, and wall street is overrun by white crooks, and so, i think that if if he wanted to have a real conversation, and really, really inflammatory the, and african-americans have the right to criticize policing, and we want better policing. i am from a law enforcement family, and i know that cops are human being, and you don't have to defy them, but you don't have to demonize them either. >> and van, charles barkley can do a good enough job by himself, but he was not asked about wall street, but african-americans. >> and that is part of the problem, because there are plenty of -- listen, every

afric african-american community is not distressed and every white community is not distressed. and we are not talking about the white suicide epidemic, and why are we having these scolds coming out whether it is cosby or anybody else coming out now? >> i want to go the michael smerconish? >> well, there is improvement in all law enforcement, and it is replete where african-american males are treated in a way where they should not be by law enforcement, but in reading the grand jury indictment, this is mot the case to base all of those oarguments and having thoe arguments, because this is not the case. and i have told you, don, they should wait to evaluate the grand jury testimony in this case before they weighed in, and one of the things that charles barkley said that i agreed is

how many folks among us with were predisposed to believe and not believe the grand jury and to be predisposed to believe the police aofficer and we would hae been better to catch our breath and look at the evidence presented. >> and i want to get in ben carson here, but i want to say that bill cosby is being sued in los angeles by a woman who says that he sexual ly abused her whn she was 15 years old, and the complaint says that cosby abused her at the playboy mansion, and michael, the hits keep on coming, and there is a barrage of women now all making allegation, and now this woman is suing bill cosby according to radar online. >> all i know about it is what i have heard from you, but what piques my curiousiousity is the

and 15. and this is to a new level and not a positive one. and with one question i keep asking about this, don, and the pattern is one that he is medicating each and every one of the victims, and i am wondering where is he getting the meds and the whole thing about the downfall of michael jackson that i was asking. >> and van, i wanted to ask you, because you are an attorney. >> yes. >> and what do you make of this? >> well, first of all n is the the first time we are going beyond the different allegation s that we are not put before the court. i think that bill cosby has to come forward and say something at a certain point, because his silence is almost an admission. and these are horrible, horrendous allegation, and finally this is going to be litigated before a court of law. the if he plans to wait for the two years before this thing gets before the court to speak to america, he owes this country, and he owes his fan, and he owes

the women some kind of statement. i think that this level of silence for this long is unfair to everybody, and again, at some point silence almost becomes admission. >> and let me read this to people just tuning in, again, be bill cosby being sued in los angeles by a woman who alleges that he sexually abused her when she was 15 years old in los angeles. and judith hut says that she was sexually abused at the playboy mansion, and we have not heard back from the cosby representatives or cosby, himself. and now, after the grand jury decision was announced in ferguson, we will discuss that. and also, we will talk about the top cnn heroes of 2014, and join us as we honor the extraordinary people who do extraordinary things in the world.

here is a preview. >> you have the power to inspire and change the world. ♪ everyday people do everything things but i do want to the help smoet ♪ >> we are extraordinary adults. >> we are doing the best for them to give them the best future. ♪ everyday heroes >> i want to the honor the heroes. >> it is going to be a great evening. >> an all-star tribute. >> this is my honor the hug the weightlifter with the biggest heart ever. >> and never worry about what you can't do. never ever quit. >> it is incredibly hummable to be recognized as a cnn hero. >> this is an amazing time. >> you are kill meg cnn. >> you have me sobbing all over the chardonnay. >> the top stars come out to n honor the cnn heroes of 2014. >> at 7:00 p.m. eastern.

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fa ther as they investigate the violence that broke out last night after the grand jury decided not to indict officer wilson last week. he is heard saying burn this b-down. and so joining me is michael brown's cousin. good evening, sir. >> good evening, don. >> first of all, thank you for being here, and sorry for the loss. how is the family doing? how are you doing? >> well, that is -- that's a question that i keep getting asked, and the family is doing, i mean, much like any other family would be doing if a murderer went free. >> do you think that it is fair to call him a murderer after a grand jury found that there was not enough evidence for cause or evidence to indict? >> yes, when you look at it, and you to look at what he said in the testimony.

this is what i don't think that a lot of people are paying attention to. >> and so many would deem that as inflammatory statement much as the husband of michael brown's mother, and so you are saying that he is a murderer, and then on the night of the announcement that was made, there is a video of him standing on top of a car or something e screaming that we are going to burn this bitch down the, and let's take a look at this, and then let's talk about it. >> okay. >> he spoke out of anger. speaking is a different thing than acting. he just spoke out of anger. >> burn this bitch down. fwhu burn this bitch down. burn this bitch down. >> and you said murderer, and many people said it is

inflammatory, and the police are looking into whether louis may have incited rioting in the crowd, and what do you think of that? >> i feel that what louis did was pure emotion, pure emotion. but here is what i will say that if you are going to bring louis in for the act that he just commited, then i think that you need to bring in the co-conspirators, also, and that would be bob mccolluh and g governor nixon. >> how would they be the co-conspirators, and they are the cause for the looting and the rioting? >> let me break it down the you. let's say that you had a pit bull, don, and you let him out once and he bit a dog, and tore a chihuahua down, and so you lock him up, but the next day,

you let him out, and you h already know what he is going to do, and you already know, because you didn't take the time out to correct the problem that you had. so, let's think about it like this, let's think about bob mccolluh, look at the time that he decided to release that decision. he waited until 9:00 at night in the dark, and all of the schools are out, and all of the teenagers and all of the young cats who looted the first time are right there waiting in the middle of the street. and he even pushed it back an hour to incite it a little bit more. so then we go to governor nixon who brought in what was some ungodly amount of about 200 national guardsmen, but where where were they when things were

burning? they were holding them back. >> it may sound like you are deflecting what louis did can, and blaming it on the governor and the -- >> no, no, don. what you saw out of louis was pure raw emotion, and if i were to take it to court, and lawyer, i would call can it temporary insanty, and i would have a great case for it, because he just witnessed the man who murdered his son, his stepson go free off of a botched case. >> so what do you think of the looting and the rioting? >> the looting and the rioting is absolutely disgusting. there is no reason that you should ever burn a police car or a building down, but there is also no reason why you should ever burn a city down after a soccer game. but we don't give that that much

attention. >> and i want to get to this, because it is part of why we had you on, and you created a video and it is called "america on strike." let's listen. >> i don't care what anybody out there says, see. i hear some of the people say that he loved menacing. and he was bullying behavior. l let me tell you point blank, he was 18-year-old with absolutely no weapon, and unless his hands were registered as a lethal weapons, there was no way he was going to kill officer darren wilson. >> and according to the evidence that came from the grand jury, he was unarmed man, teenager who had a fight with a police officer and reached for the police officer's gun, and so why did you make this video?

>> okay. let's look at that, don. let's look at that, and look at what officer darren wilson said hisself. he said that when he pulled up to him, he saw two teenagers to get out of the street, and they turned him down. then he, him and bob cull la said that he was reacting to to a strong arm ed robbery, right? >> i have a short amount of time, so quickly sxlchlt no p q >> no problem. no problem. the chief of police said that he had no idea that the robbery had been committed and then to officer darren wilson said that he felt like a 5-year-old when i gr grabbed his arm, and so that means that he pulled up on that, and he grabbed his arm, and that sounds correct, and then he said that he reached for the gun because he said he didn't think

that he could take one more pun pch. >> and sol of that was addressed by the grand jury, and i am sorry, because i have a limited amount of time, and i will have you back on, and thank you very much. >> thank you. outrage on the campus of university of virginia and "rolling stone" magazine says a female was gang raped inside of a campus home, and does the university tolerate sexual violence? we will talk to former and current students about that.

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a recent article in "rolling stone" about alleged gang rape inside of a fraternity house has rocked the university of virginia to the core. cnn's joe johns has more. >> reporter: the university's president teresa sullivan addressing the uva community about sexual violence now engulfing the school. >> there is a piece of the culture of the university that is broken. i ask for your help to come together adds a strong and

resilient community to fix it. >> reporter: fix what "rolling stone" magazine calls a culture of sexual assault at uva. sullivan says that they would find a way to root out binge drinking and drugs on campus, and provide greater safety for guests to operate on campus, and hire additional trauma counselor on the campus, and put a sub station on campus, and conduct an anonymous survey in the spring to find out how often students experience sexual abuse on campus. and all the while, students are conducting and online survey to put a end to a fraternity house on campus. >> our initial response was to

defend what we have, and now we have switched from defending it to using the opportunity to start the change to now be an example. >> reporter: since the "rolling stone" story, some have questioned the credibility asking why sebrina early did not include those who accused the first-year female student jackie, and this is what she said about the men in a recent interview with cnn. >> they were walking around as though nothing has happened. jackie did go to the school to report thele allegation, and the school did absolutely nothing. >> reporter: and erdley says she attempted to reach the men, but was not able to. and today, "rolling stone" says she stands by the story. and we found through the fact-checking that she is courageous, and she is credible and gives the story the disturbing attention it deserves. and we asked the university of virginia about the credibility

of the account that jackie described in the magazine, and we got no response. joe john, cnn, washington. >> all right. this is an important conversation, and so i want everybody to listen to this, and i want to bring in current around former students. susan pinkelton is a friend of jackie from that "rolling stone" article, and we are also joined by a victims' rights advocate as well, and thank you for joining me, and alexandria, you are a current student on campus, and can you tell us what is the mood on the campus since this "rolling stone" article came out? >> the mood has called for a lot of change, and that is one positive thing that we have seen are from the article. a lot of people want to tackle this issue, and do anything that they can to try to make our community safer.

>> emily, you're a recent grad who now works on campus, and of the charges that the uva, the changes that the uva president plans to make, is that enough? >> you know, i think it is important to never say that anything is going to be enough. i think that there is always more that we can do, but i know that i speak personally when i say that i'm really excited with the thing ths that she has mentioned and especially the addition of the extra trauma center counselor, and this article was triggering to a lot of people, and it is great to have the extra resources for people to talk confidentially of things to talk about from the past, and on campus, and enough maybe not so much, but i am excited to see what comes from this, but i am happy to see of the changes made initially. >> and the uva president is also recommending a bill of rights for sexual assault survivors to let the victims know that they can speak up without repercussi

repercussion, and meant to simplify the current policy. are these the types of changes needed on campus, and this is for liz? >> i think that it is the types of changes needed on campus are greater than policies and things instituted by the university, itself. i mean, it is like the hawks running the hen house. it is something more law enforcement enabled and something that is single sanctioned and just like the honor code. modest is a word i would use to the change, and that is a generous word. >> modest. so what do you think of the questions that jackie's story, because the accusers were not interviewed in the "roll iing stone" article, and some went as far to suggest that it may not be true. >> i think that we are focusing in many ways on how the story was told when what is not important is how the story was

told, but something awful happened and we have a culture and set of policies to change, and wi and we can be hung up on how the story is told, but a ha is missing the point, and we all know that. >> liz, do you agree with that? >> ily ing agree with that, and each of us was involved with sebrina and to say that somebody involved with a felony does not want to speak with a journal itself, and so, there is a legal vetting process, and the truth process is disgusting, and unnecessary. >> and so, we will talk about whether to press charges.

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back with he me now alexandria pinkelton and also our other guests to talk about the "rolling stone" article. and so a alexandria, you are

friends with the woman who was the subject of the "rolling stone" article, jackie, and do you know that as of now she is not planning to press charges burk is she going to? >> we know that there is a police investigation, and that is all we know at this time. >> and alexandria, and this is a delicate subject, because you a sexual assault survivor yourself. >> yes. >> and what went into the decision of whether or not to press charges? >> i decided to go through the informal trial system through the university because i wanted to talk to my perpetrator about what had happened and it is lot about my feeling process and getting closure. >> and liz, you were sexually assaulted in the same frat house building that jackie was sexually assault ed in, and whe you first realized that, what was your reaction? >> my e rerereaction is one of

horror and disgust and of course, i went to the university hospital quite soon thereafter and i found myself in the dean's office, and from there, it did not go well as i was told that i u could not press charges, because they had to take care of it internally. and i could not get justice, but my story does mirror jackie's, in that i was written a letter of dismissal. >> and so can you tell us that the way that the incidents are treated now has changed much as when your case was perpetrateded? >> no, i don't. there is a seductive quality that the administration reels us in and tells us that we are

family and that we are your friends, and in the meantime, they are telling you giant lies. i was told point blank as i sat across from former dean canterbury that i could not have possibly been raped even though i was bloodied and bruised and had incredible sex with a young man and i didn't want my parents to think that i was not a good girl. >> and did the university ever address it after that, liz? >> no, they didn't, because it became part and parcel of the shart loathes -- charlottesville police department. >> and emily or alexandria? who wanted to the jump if in? >> i think both of us. >> i think thatly first say that one of the things that is detrimental that has come out of the article in one way is that the dean is being criticized for doing what is quite frankly the

first page of the advocacy handbook of giving people options and not coercing in any shape or form, and we can frankly have a conversation of the dean s and other officials n that how they want to the p be advocates, or contract out, but she did best practices with the best outcomes which is to respect victim autonomy, and she respected jackie's choices whether sheing ing agreed with not, and we should discuss whether we want them to do that or not, because they took a victim-centered approach ha is victim best practices. >> and i was going to -- >> i was going to -- i am sorry, and that is great, emily, because it is jackie's choice, and it is great to with be choices, and my choice is that i asked my dean at the time to call the charlottesville police, and he said, no, i cannot do that, because the

charlottesville police do not have jurisdiction over that fraternity house, and we all know because it is the same house that it is a lie, and the choice s a choices are great, and what you are saying is absolutely on point, but i asked for specific thing to happen, and was told a lie. >> okay. so here is what -- >> well, what -- what we are say saying that is not my stance and we believe that there has been a lot of changes over the year, and what happens now is that if you do report, and you want to go through the trial or go to the university police, the administration will support you with that decision, and you can go through with that and that is a huge step in the right direction. >> and alexandria, that is the answer to my question is if if the police should be involved and you answered that. and liz, you have children, right? >> yes, i do. i have two young children. >> if you had college-aged daughters would you hesitate to send them to uva? >> right now, yes, because right

now, uva is burning, and we need to put out the fire, and we need to look at not only a 5 and 10-year plan, but the immediate plan, and we are all interested in working on that. >> and thank you, and we appreciate your joining us this evening, thank you. >> thank you. >> thank you. >> thank you. we will be right back.

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it has been really interesting e show tonight, and i appreciate your joining us. i'm don lemon and i will see you back here at 10:00 p.m. eastern. "ac360" starts right now. good evening, it is 11:00 p.m. right now on the east coast, and we have so much to bring you from isis to street drugs, and those that resemble the old ones and those that are a lot deadlier. and from the time that indictment was handed down that officer wilson would not be indicted to the tact that authorities are looking to the fact that whether the stepfather should be charged with inciting a riot based on the words that he said to the crowd. we want to look at what he said, and the context, and