to help you keep rolling with confidence. go long™. ♪ . hey hey, these killer cops have got to go. >> protests nationwide after a grand jury did not indict a white new york city police officer in the chokehold death of an unarmed black man. chokeholds are not a permitted tactic for new york city police officers. this hour, the city's mayor and the city's police commissioner are meeting to discuss retraining the city's police force. they're going to have a news conference this hour. you'll see it and hear it live right here. also right now, are there two justice systems in the united states? one for whites, one for african-americans? some top minds are here to discuss all of this, including ber niece king, the daughter of the civil rights leader,

daughter of martin luther king, jr. >> hello. i'm wolf blitzer, 1:00 p.m. in washington, 6:00 p.m. in london, 8:00 p.m. in jerusalem, 9:00 p.m. in moscow, wherever you're watching interest around the world, thanks very much for joining usp. up first, the fallout over another grand jury decision in the death of an unarmed black man. at the hands of a white police officer. a judge is expected to rule today on whether to release portions of the evidence presented to the grand jury in staten island, new york. the decision not to indict the officer in the chokehold death of eric garner set off protests in new york and elsewhere around the country. it has added to the debate over race relations in the united states. the president of the national urban league announced a march for jobs and justice next week right here in washington. marc morial saying recent events should shock the nation's

conscience. >> yesterday's decision by the staten island grand jury defied common sense. one can engage in lots of discussions about the law and discretion and standards, but the plain eyes of the world got an opportunity to see that interaction and now a man, a father of six, is dead. >> the attorney general of the united states, eric holder, says the justice department is investigating the circumstances of eric garner's death. today holder visits cleveland, ohio, it's part of his focus on trying to improve relations between law enforcement and the african-american communities across the country. also, new york, city police are in the process of retraining officers of the use of force. the department prohibits the chokehold used by officer daniel

pantaleo. the officer faces an internal police investigation. once again the grand jury did not indict him. no violence, no vandalism. the new york police commissioner says protests over the grand jury decision have been mostly peaceful. our national correspondent jason carroll is joining us from times square. jason, give us a sense of how the demonstrations unfolded across new york city. >> well, those protesters marched throughout the city, including right here in times square. new york city's mayor sharing some of the same feelings of some of the demonstrators this morning, wolf. he spoke a local radio station telling the deejay there that eric garner did not have to die. >> can't breathe. i can't breathe. i can't breathe. >> reporter: protesters pouring into the streets of new york last night after a grand jury did not indict new york city police officer daniel pantaleo in the chokehold death of 43-year-old eric garner.

>> i cans breathe. >> it's a very painful day for so many new yorkers. >> reporter: arrests made throughout the night as outrage pulsed throughout the city streets for more than nine hours. most chanting garner's last words. >> i can't breathe. >> reporter: before dying on this staten island street. >> i can't breathe. i can't breathe. >> i can't breathe. >> reporter: police, some in riot gear, blocking intersections, as protesters began shutting down the city's most iconic landmarks. stopping the flow of traffic into and out of the island of manhattan for hours. some lying down right in the middle of the road. in the same inside grand central station. >> i can't breathe. >> reporter: where other protesters staged a massive die-in as evening rush hour hit its peak. police heavily guarding the rockefeller tree lighting

ceremony. >> three, two, one. >> reporter: as protesters tried to disrupt the show. the city's public outcry reaching a feevor pitch nationwide. from los angeles. >> i am eric garner. >> reporter: to philadelphia. where protesters took to city hall during their tree lighting ceremony holding up signs reading "black lives matter." the demonstrations across the country disruptive, but peaceful, fulfilling garner's family wish. >> yeah, we want you to rally, but rally in peace. >> no violence. that's all i ask. >> reporter: officer pantaleo said in a statement, it is never my intention to harm anyone and i feel very bad about the death of mr. garner, but garner's wife says it's too late. >> hell no. the time for remorse would have been when my husband was yelling to breathe. that would have been the time

for him to show some type of remorse or some type of care for another human being's life. >> reporter: new york city's mayor as well as the police commissioner met today to talk about this idea of retraining the city's police force. also, wolf, the nypd is moving forward with its internal investigation it into this incident, ultimately it will be the police commissioner who will decide what, if any, be punishment this officer will face. wolf? >> and we're standing by later this hour, we're going to be hearing from the mayor of new york, the police commissioner of new york. despite the no indictment by the grand jury, jason, they concede that changes need to be made within the police department. >> yeah. >> in new york, right? >> yeah. absolutely. and in terms of retraining the officers and in terms of how they deal with physical situations, so that is one of the things that they're going to be talking about. also, just readdressing the idea of dealing with excessive force

and the policies on how they use force. so there is this acknowledgement that some retraining needs to be done, but that doesn't mean that the police commissioner is not still standing by his officers. >> once we see mayor bill de blasio and the police commissioner bill bratton we'll have live coverage later this hour of their remarks. they're taking questions from reporters as well. jason, thank you. eric garner's mother says she's pleased that the protests have been peaceful. she says she's hopeful the justice department's investigation into her son's death will be productive. >> i'm very optimistic. at least we'll get fair and just decision this time because that grand jury's decision outrageous. that's all i can say. >> as for the use of body cameras by police, garner's mother says she doubts that will make much of a difference. >> they had a live -- i mean

they had a video that represents a body camerap. it did nothing. try something else. >> eric garner's father is also pinning his hopes on the federal justice department investigation. joe johns caught up with him last night after the staten island grand jury's decision was released. >> what went through your mind when you heard about what the grand jury decided? >> i was hurt by it. i was hurt by it. still, i don't want no reason for nobody to get locked out here, go through the same [ bleep ] we're going through all the time. >> what do you think happens next? have you talked to the lawyers a little bit? >> the fed is going to take over. >> and you're hopeful that the federal government -- >> they'll give us the right decision. >> president obama says there needs to be more trust, more accountability when it comes to dealing between communities and law enforcement. we heard more from the president just a little while ago talking

about the fallout from what's going on in new york as well as ferguson, missouri. listen to this. >> when it comes, as we've seen unfortunately in recent days, to our criminal justice system, too many americans feel deep unfairness when it comes to the gap between our professed ideals and how laws are applied on a day-to-day basis. beyond the specific issue that has to be addressed making sure that people have confidence, that police and law enforcement and prosecutors are serving everybody equally, there's the larger question of restoring a sense of common purpose. >> the attorney general, eric holder, also addressed the case the department of justice is launching a federal investigation into the killing of eric garner, looking into whether garner's civil rights were violated. he also spoke about the larger

issues. >> mr. garner's death is one of several recent incidents across our great country that have tested the sense of trust that must ekist between law enforcement and the communities they are charged to serve and to protect. this is mot a new york issue nor a ferguson issue alone. >> he says it's not necessarily just the problem ins those communities. it's a problem from coast to coast. after the grand jury decision in the michael brown case, we saw protests across the country, similar protests to what we saw last night after the decision on eric garner's death. joining us now is dr. berniece king, the daughter of the civil rights icon, dr. martin luther king, jr. thanks very much for joining us. if your father had -- >> thank you. >> had been alive today and we all wish he would have been alive today, what would he have -- how would he have reacted to what's going on? >> well, we have to remember, my father talked about, shortly

before his death, the need for reordering priorities in america, a radical reordering of priorities, and that if we did not do that, we would see some of the results we're seeing today. so i think the first thing is, he would still call for a radical reordering of priorities and value systems in our nation. he would feel, obviously, that what happened in this instance was just morally reprehensible. it's incomprehensible there was no indictment in this case at all. and we have to do something to radically change policing in this nation. as going to have to happen unfortunately, i believe, from the federal level. we can't -- we can't merely just do this state by state. there are too many states. definitely police officers need training, but we need to add some other provisions in the civil rights act to protect

citizens in these kinds of instances because police can't police themselves and prosecutors have a very difficult time prosecuting police officers who have -- who they later have to work with and prosecuting other individuals. we have to find way to have special prosecutors in these kinds of instances. even after that happens, our work at the king center is devoted to transforming people's hearts and lives and understanding the interconnectedness of life, and there's only one race, the human race, we have different hues and experiences but we have to realize we are a part of a human family and we have to see each other and treat each other as such. >> there are some who are now saying the country is really divided into two systems, one system for african-americans, a justice system, a legal system, another for whites. are you among those who think

the country is divided into those two separate, unequal categories? >> i do. i do believe that system is separate and unequal. invariably, african-americans oftentimes are sentenced at a higher rate. they are, obviously, charged at a higher rate. arrested at a higher rate than others for similar crimes. you know, and so we have to -- it's not even -- i don't call it a system failure. we have to do a whole re-set of our justice system in america and start from scratch because it's not working for all people. >> and there are others who go a step further and say there's a different justice system for civilians as opposed to law enforcement. do you agree with that? >> well, i would certainly say it appears that there's immunity for impunity, they can do whatever they want according to their own

personal discretion and take lives and so if they're hiding behind the cloak of any kind of bias, they can use that in making the decisions and judgments that they make and that's really unfortunate. and so again, you know, we need a serious rehaul of our justice system and finding a way that there's a separate system to deal with police officers when there is excessive force involved. i mean, i was just totally troubled and deeply disturbed, you know, that this happened. when we had the equivalent of body cameras, the video, it's on tape, and justs the humanity of this gentleman who says, i can't breathe, just releasing that chokehold, probably would have ended up with a different result. >> very quickly, dr. king, is there a simple way, something we can do to fix this problem? >> i mean, it's -- i don't think

it's simple. i do think, though, that we have to do it, take a bite at the apple at a time. it's important that all of us in every industry, every arena, that we begin to do self-introspection and looking at our own biases and we have to make this a priority in america. it can't happen just when we haves these incidents. we have to on a daily basis in our institutions and cooperations and our arenas, in our faith-based institutions, we have to daily deal with the race relations issues that we have and be committed to changing attitudes and practices that still exist in our institutional structures. >> dr. ber niece king, the daughter of dr. martin luther king, jr., the ceo of the king center in atlanta, thanks very much for joining us. >> thank you, wolf. we have live pictures. i want to show you what's going on in pittsburgh, pennsylvania, right now.

this is called a dead-in. not a sit-in. a dead-in. folks on the ground in pittsburgh protesting the decision in staten island, new york, not to it diet daniel pantaleo. the police officer in the killing of eric garner. similar protests occurring around the united states. up next, why so many people are questioning the fairness of the u.s. justice system. we just heard from dr. ber niece king. are the courts and the nation's police departments truly color-blind? the growing debate here in the united states when we return.

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been excessive. let's listen in. >> as well as obviously a great u.s. attorney, steve denback, the mayor, and the chief, it's good to have you all here as well. in repeat days, millions of people throughout our nation have come together, bound by grief and bound by anguish in response to the tragic deaths of michael brown in ferguson, missouri, and ear ris-- eric gar in new york city. the united states department of justice is currently conducting an independent, thorough, fair and expeditious federal civil rights investigation into each of these incidents. as president obama and i have indicated the time has come we think to do even more. the tragic losses of these and far too many other americans, including just last month, the shooting death of 12-year-old tamir rice here in cleveland, have really raised urgent national questions. and they have sparked an important conversation about the

sense of trust that must exist between law enforcement and the communities that they serve and protect. earlier this week i traveled to atlanta to begin a series of interactions with law enforcement, civic, community and faith leaders aimed at restoring trust, rebuilding, understanding and fostering renewed cooperation between law enforcement and community members. today we convene the second in that series of vital discussions with leaders here in cleveland with the intention of building a constructive and inclusive national conversation. and we kick off this conversation, i believe, with an important announcement regarding a significant step forward in our effort to ensure the highest standards of policing and to foster broad outreach and engagement between police officials and cleveland residents. after a thorough and independent review, the department of justices has completed its civil pattern of practice

investigation into the cleveland division of police. now that investigation spanned more than a year and a half and it was launched in response to a series of troubling, high-profile use of force incidents as well as by numerous public calls for a federal investigation by civilic leaders, congressman marshal fudge and by mayor jackson. since march of 2013, the justice department has closely examined nearly 600 use of force incidents that occurred between 2010 and 2013, including the incidents involving the use of lethal and less than lethal force. we have determined that there is reasonable cause to believe that the cleveland division of public police engages in a pattern and practice of using excessive force and as a result of insufficient accountability, inadequate training, ineffective policies and inadequate engagement in the community. fortunately today i can announce

the department of justice and the city of cleveland have come together, have come together to set in motion a process that will remedy these issues in a cpre hencive and in a court enforceable manner. under mayor jackson's leadership, the city has acknowledged that the department's findings raise issues of importance to people, really throughout this community. together, we have agreed to a statement of principles that will lead to a court enforceable consent decree including an independent monitor who will oversee the implementation of sustainable reforms, assess compliance based on objective measures, and ensure that robust new policies and practices will result in more effective and constitutional policing. now, we recognize, of course, that this process will be both difficult and it will be complex. it will demand engagement and input from the brave law enforcement officers who serve on the front lines.

cleveland residents, civic leaders and other community stakeholders. it will require sustained and collaborative effort toward clear, concrete objectives to build trust, to close gaps, and to forge stronger relationships. now, we understand that the progress we seek will not come overnight. but i am confident that the city of cleveland and the united states department of justice will move forward together as committed partners. and this joint statement of principle and the eventual consent decree provide what i believe is a solid foundation for meaningful steps forward so that we can enable all of the residents of cleveland to have full confidence in the courageous public servants who work every day, every day, to keep them safe and so that we can empower these dedicated women and men in blue to address persistent challenges, to obtain the training and other resources that they need in order to do the jobs safely and effectively, and ultimately to become the outstanding world-class police

force that this great city deserves. now this process continues today. with this important announcement, and with the round table discussion that i will convene this afternoon. all of the leaders here who will be a part of that conversation understand that accountability and legitimacy are essential for communities to trust their police departments and for there to be genuine collaboration between policed and the citizens that they serve. as the brother of a retired police officer, i know on a very personal way how brave these public servants are. it is for their sake as well that we must seek to heal the breakdowns we have seen. and although these issues are as i said complex, and the problems long standing, we have seen in city after city, where we have engaged, that meaningful change is possible. meaningful, positive change is possible. there are real, practical and

concrete measures that can be taken to ensure not only that police services are delivered in a constitutional manner, but that we can promote public safety. officer safety, confidence, and collaboration, transparency, and legitimacy. now as you know earlier this week, president obama announced a series of constructive steps to help bolster the trust in and the effectiveness of the policing of our communities. these include convening a new task force to develop ways to reduce crime while building community trust. reforming how the federal government equips local law enforcement, particularly with regard to military-style equipment, and advancing the use of body worn cameras and promoting community policing initiatives. now these are to my mind exactly the kinds of pragmatic and inclusive actions that will bring the right people together to engage in constructive, national conversation. and they will complement the

reinvigorated police reform work that justice department's cops office, civil rights division, and united states attorney's offices throughout the nation have been leading. over the last five fiscal years, our civil rights division has opened more than 20 investigations in police departments across the country. more than twice as many as were opened in the previous five fiscal years. we are currently enforcing no fewer than 15 agreements with law enforcement agencies, including eight consent decrees to correct unconstitutional police practices and we have seen many times over that this model can work. reform is under way in new orleans, seattle, albuquerque, portland, oregon, east haven, connecticut, puerto rico and warren, ohio. we are committed to moving forward together. here in cleveland and throughout the nation to spur renewed

engagement, renewed trust and momentum to really translate coordinated action into meaningful results. now we have a great develop work to do, but this announcement, i think, marks an important first step. i want to thank everyone who worked really so hard to make this announcement possible, including the dedicated men and women of the civil rights division special litigation section, our great u.s. attorney, steve dellback and his office. >> all right. so there you have the attorney general of the united states, eric holder, he's in cleveland, ohio, announcing a study which unfortunately for cleveland points to what is described in this justice department study as a pattern or practice of unreasonable and unnecessary use of force by the cleveland division of police. you also heard him speaking out about the grand jury decision, staten island, new york, not to indict the white police officer in the choking death of eric garner, as well as what's going on in ferguson.

we're going to have a full discussion on what's going on, but there's some other breaking news i want to report right now. the white house just moments ago announceds the president of the united states will announce tomorrow he is nominating the new secretary of defense. they didn't say who it's going to be, but everyone knows it's going to be this man right here, his picture on the screen, ash carter, the former deputy secretary of defense. he's a physicist. he worked in the defense department during the obama administration. tomorrow morning at the white house, a formal ceremony announcing this defense secretary nominee to replace chuck hagel who announced his resignation a few days ago. chuck hagel under pressure to give up that position. ash carter, if confirmed by the united states senate, he is expected to be confirmed, if confirmed he will be the fourth defense secretary in the obama administration and that's what we're going to be watching for tomorrow. but let's get back to the other news we're watching today.

many people across the country, they are incensed by the grand jury's decision in staten island, new york, and point to the videotape of the july confrontation as proof that an indictment should have come forward and the medical examiner's conclusion that chokehold contributed to eric garner's death. today the president of the national urban league, marc morial, called the grand jury's decision a travesty. >> people who love the nation and are committed to its principles, are outraged at what we see. and we cannot stand and we cannot sit and we refuse to watch and we are committed to action that will bring about meaningful change. >> lots to discuss. joining us from new york, the staten island councilman debbie rose, her home district where the confrontation between ear rishg garner and the -- eric garner and the police took place.

joining us the former federal prosecutor lori levston, joining us from los angeles, in washington, cnn law enforcement analyst tom fuentes, a form fbi assistant director. councilwoman rose, let me start with you. you've said very bluntly, repeatedly, that the juses tis system here in the united states shows in your words that black life is valueless. explain what you mean by that. those are powerful, strong words. >> well, once again, wolf, we saw that where the value of a black life had less meaning than other parts -- other people in our communities. this community had held on to hope for an indictment, an indictment that would say that yes, there is value to a life that's from the community of color and yes, that they saw what we saw.

we are in shock. we are angry. and we are profoundly disappointed that the district attorney and the grand juries did not see fit to convict officer pantaleo. >> does it make any difference to you, council woman, there were 23 members of the grand jury, 14 white people, 9 nonwhite people on that grand jury? >> you know, we were concerned about the demographics of staten island and what the grand jury would look like, but we believe that with the visual evidence that was presented, a videotape where a man said, 11 times, i can't breathe, that they could not possibly think that this was not overpolicing and an unwarranted death. >> tom fuentes, are there two sets of rules here in the united states when it comes to law and

order and justice? one for blacks, one for whites? >> you know, wolf, when i was a police officer, six years in cook county, illinois, spent probably three to five days minimum a month in the cook county court system and i saw we had a des part justice system, it wasn't white and black, it was rich and poor. we knew as police officers, my fellow officers and i would talk and they came into court and had a high priced attorney white or black they would get much less severe treatment or sentencing or no sentencing at all and the people that had to rely on the public defender's office, which was so overworked, so understaffed they didn't get the same representation. so whether you're a celebrity like o.j. with the dream team, or, you know, poor defendants in cook county and i'm sure courtrooms around the country, what i saw was if you're poor, you're not going to get the same treatment as if you have a good attorney and go into court. >> you say it's more socioeconomic as opposed to to race. >> that's what i say. >> lori you studied this and

you're a scholar. what do you think some. >> i think it's all of the above. wolf, i think that race still does make a difference. it also makes a difference whether it's a police officer or a civilian. we give police officers this permission to use force, but then when they overuse it we want them to be held accountable. from the grand juror's perspective it's not that easy because things are happening so fast. what i have seen is that people see other people differently thp they see them differently because of their race, their socioeconomic level and also because whether they're a police officer or not. >> all right. i'm going to have all three of you standby. a lot more to discuss. so much distrust right now here in the united states between minorities, local police forces, and so many communities all across the country. how to move forward, how to bridge the divide? we'll talk about some possible solutions, what's going on, and a lot more when we come back. [ male announcer ] if you're on medicare, remember, the open enrollment period is here.

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we're standing by to hear from the mayor of new york city, bill de blasio, and the police commissioner of new york, bill bratton. they're about to hold a news conference in new york. you see the reporters. they're already there. they should be walking in momentarily. we're going to get the latest developments in the aftermath of this grand jury decision in new york yesterday, not to go ahead and indict this white police officer in the death, the choking death, of a black man on staten island in new york. we'll have live coverage of that coming up. standby. meanwhile, city officials, members of congress here in washington, they're continuing to deal with all the fallout

from the grand jury decision. the 43-year-old unarmed black man was placed in a fatal chokehold by a white nypd police officer. let's bring back our panel, the staten island councilwoman debbie rose, former prosecutor lori levenson and cnn's law enforcement analyst tom fuentes. debbie rose, let me play for you this clip. i interviewed dr. ben carson, he's now thinking of running for the republican presidential nomination, he's a famed pediatric neurosurgeon from johns hopkins university, we spoke about what's going on in ferguson, missouri, before the grand jury decision in staten island, but listen to what he said about police in america. >> i challenge people all the time, imagine living for 24 hours with no police. people will be walking into your house saying, hey, i think i like that television, i'm it taking that. it would be total chaos. so the police are our friends.

are they perfect in all cases? of course not. >> you want to react to that, debbie rose? >> yes. this is not an issue of police and what they endure. this is about treatment, a different standard applied in communities of color as opposed to a standard that they use in other communities. and so with ben carson's remark, he does a disservice to this community when he tries to triv vallize how the what we know the reality is and how those services are delivered. >> is one of the problems, tom fuentes, you were a cop before you became an fbi agent, former assistant director of the fbi, racial profiling in the united states? >> you know, there probably is some cases of profiling. no question about it. but i think in this case, when the police officers arrive, i would like to see the whole

videotape from the beginning. because to make such a minor arrest of selling illegal -- cigarettes legal but not having a business license to do it, you don't have six cops show up to do that arrest. this escalated gradually over time with probably the first officer asking for assistance and more assistance and more, plain clothed guys arrived and we constantly hear, white police officers killed eric garner the black man. we don't hear anything about the fact ha in the video you see there is a black female new york city police sergeant at the scene. she could have called this off, told the police officers this is a minor charge, let him go, don't arrest him. he doesn't want to be arrested we wons arrest him. when garner is on the ground after the hold is released waiting for the paramedics to take him, you see in the background other black female police officers. this was not rodney king with a bunch of ferocious white cops

beating on somebody. this is a group of officers who are trying to take a large human being into custody who just doesn't want to comply. >> the big problem here, lori, and you've studied this from various angles, is that a lot of people in the united states are losing confidence in the entire legal system, the justice system, in the country. they think it's unfair to which you say? >> well, that's the biggest problem, because frankly, as was said before, we need our police, but we need them to do their job right. and part of that is seeing people for who they are as opposed to the color of their skin. i think officers do tend to see people as large or dangerous in part based on what they're wearing and the color of their skin. on the other hand, if we are too quick to go after police officers, people will not become police officers or they'll stop doing the policing. and we've actually seen this in some of the pattern and practices cases that have been

brought. there have been some situations where there's consent decrees and the officers say you know what w neerpts going to do arrests because if we do them we can get in trouble. leave things alone we're not going to be under the scrutiny of civil rights. that's not a good option either. >> all right. lori levinson, stand by. debbie rose, tom fuentes. we will take another break. i think the mayor of new york, bill de blasio, the police chief in new york, bill bratton, they're going to be speaking momentarily taking reporters' questions on these developments. our special coverage resumes after this. how much money do you have in your pocket right now? i have $40, $21. could something that small make an impact on something as big as your retirement? i don't think so. well if you start putting that towards your retirement every week and let it grow over time, for twenty to thirty years, that retirement challenge might not seem so big after all.

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welcome back to our viewers in the united states and around the world. i'm wolf blitzer. the mayor of new york city, bill de blasio, the police commissioner in new york, bill bratton, they will be holding a news conference speaking out on the latest developments, the protests that erupted in new york city overnight after that grand jury on staten island in new york did not indict the why is police officer in the choking death of a black man, eric garner. joining us to help us in this conversation as we await the news conference, cedric alexander, a police chief, dekalb county, in georgia. he's joining us from atlanta. chief, thanks very much for joining us. tom fuentes still with us, as is debbie rose, the staten island,

new york, city council member. and let me quickly get your thought, debbie rose, you and i were talking about what eric garner was doing that resulted in this takedown and the attempted arrest on the streets of staten island that caused this uproar. you say he was not trying to sell cigarettes on that day? >> wolf, i think it's very important that we clarify at this point, eric garner was not engaged in any activity, he was not selling loose cigarettes at that moment. he was not engaged in any criminality. he had just crossed the street from breaking up a fight with two young people. and when the police approached him, he was not selling loose cigarettes. he had a history and they knew him and a record of selling loose cigarettes, but he was not at that time engaged in that activity. >> because he did have, what, 30

arrests over several years, right? >> yes. yes, he did. and so -- >> relatively minor charges, selling cigarettes without taxes, stuff like that. >> it's certainly not -- it doesn't warrant being killed over selling loose cigarettes even if he was engaged in that activity at that moment, which he was not. and this is just another example of overzealous enforcement of the broken windows policy that nypd has adopted. >> let me get chief alexander to responds to that. cedric alexander. i'm really anxious to get your thoughts on what's going on right now in our country. >> well, you know, the decision around this case an the case in missouri has already been made, wolf, so we're at a point right now, quite frankly, where we have a country and a number of people in this country, both black and white, americans, period, i must say, who are

questioning the criminal justice system and with the type of protests that we're seeing across the country, the concerns that people have about these incidents and others that have occurred, what comes to me is the fact, i think, that around this entire criminal justice system in this country and in particular the whole grand jury process in and of itself. now, that being said, i have to say this as well too. we have to move forward and figure out how community relations in policing in this country are going to join ranks so that as a nation, we can secure ourselves with good public safety because that is going to be paramount as we move together as a nation. >> do you believe there are two justice systems in the united states, one for blacks and one for whites? >> that's been a long standing

question for many people in this country and depending on where you live and economic status and your race and gender, that certainly can be a reality for a lot of people. it's an issue the fact that question is still being raised today in 2014, that in and of itself is a problem and we have to figure out a way to resolve that so americans across this country, all of us, can feel that we have a fair voice and a fair place in the criminal justice system. >> is there one system for civilians, justice system for civilians and separate very different system for law enforcement, for police officers, who may be suspected of some sort of crime? >> the system is the same for all people. the difference is here to me, wolf, and i've been in this business for a very long time, police are in a unique position. they get called to a location to investigate and at that point decisions that they make in the time that they have to make them

in regardless because in every case they are all different, timing is different, circumstances are different, players involved are different, it's not that there's a different judicial system for police, it's just what i think is taken into consideration is what they are confronted with, which is very different than the general population but what we have to figure out and what we have to find going forward is that we got to have community that trusts that when police officers arrive to the scene, they are doing so with a great deal of diligence and without bias. >> people all over the world are watching us on cnn right now and they are looking at the united states of america saying what is going on? a guy even if he were selling illegal cigarettes on the street, he's taken down by six police officers and effectively choked to death, if you will, for that. they say how could that happen in the united states of am erer? >> in europe i hear from police

officers who say our police don't carry guns. in china, our police don't carry guns. when a police officer says you're under arrest, you better comply. they don't see street arguments and debates and wrestling matches on the street like we do. if somebody wrestles with the police in those countries, the punishment is severe. these countries in europe still use water cannons? i witnessed this myself once when a riot broke out after a soccer match in denmark. i feel the hotel shaking. a big tank comes up and it was a man-made tsunami. we abolished the use of fire hoses in 1963 during the civil rights movement. there are police agencies that still use it whenever we need it. >> you're a new york council member that represents staten island and staten island is very different demographics are very different, that presumably a

grand jury considering the facts in this case have they met in brooklyn or queens or manhattan may have come up with a different decision because of the unique character, shall we say, of staten island? >> that's in fact the thinking that has propelled the garner family to request a federal investigation because it would then be tried in the brooklyn federal court and the demographics would be much different and so that's why they have asked for a federal prosecutor to intervene. >> chief alexander, what do we need to do to fix these problems right now? we know the president is obviously focusing on what's going on, outgoing attorney general eric holder is traveling it around the country, he's focusing in on what's going on, but you're there in atlanta and dekalb county, you have a day-to-day issue you have to deal with. what do we all need to focus on

and do? >> one thing we've been fortunate about in dekalb and across metro atlanta is we have great working relationships with our communities both our elected officials and appointed officials such as myself. we're in constant contact with them. we problem solve the small problems together so when we have larger issues, we're not coming to the table together for the first time. and we all have made a commitment to the community and the community has made a commitment to dekalb county and to its policing. so for us as it relates to public safety, what i would say to the rest of the country is this. we're not perfect. we do have our challenges as well too. what is going to be paramount is that communities across this country, the leadership in those communities whether they are elected leaderships, appointed and a business community as well, we have to start engaging in conversations that's going to move our communities forward and in a way that public safety is at the top of everything that we do. we're just not talking about an

issue that affects us locally in our respective communities, we also leave ourselves open up to other global issues that may try to infiltrate because because we're distressed with these issues around race. we have to solve this problem ourselves as american people and the commitment by all of us has to be made to do that in our own respective communities. >> debi rose, what do you want to hear from the mayor of new york and the police commissioner? what's the most important thing you would like to hear them say? >> i want to hear the police commissioner and the mayor of new york say that they're going to do something to ensure that the disparities in enforcement that communities of color see will be eradicated. i want them to say that bad acting police officers, which are not the majority, but bad

actors will be taken off of the streets. we have in my district, seven out of ten of the worst bad actors in new york city are in one precinct. i want those officers off of the streets. they can be inside, but they should not be interacting with the community where they have established a pattern of overly aggressive policing. >> the points she's making, tom, these are powerfully emotional points people are making all over the country right now. there's a real problem that local law enforcement departments have in regaining confidence in the aftermath of what's happened in ferguson, what happened to that 12-year-old little boy in cleveland, what's happened in staten island. this is part of a bigger problem. >> she raises a very good point. you have police officers that have demonstrated that they

don't belong on the street. they don't belong in uniform. there aren't enough office jobs to hide these people. they don't belong on the police department. the only way to avoid that since you can't get rid of them easily is not to hire them in the first place. departments need to look at what is their election process and promotion process and how much training are they given and what's internal discipline for officers that behave badly? >> one problem we saw in ferguson, chief alexander, is a small town, maybe 50 or 60 law enforcement, police officers in ferguson, all but three of them white. even though the community itself was about 70% black. that's a problem right there, right? >> well, we know that certainly diversity has great benefits in government in particular when it comes to public service. so, yes, that does play a role and we all should be in that community hopefully start moving

toward diversifying that department there in ferguson itself. >> debi rose, give me a final thought right now as we await the mayor, you still have confidence in the system here in the united states, the legal system, the justice system? >> i believe that the justice system was set up with a purpose of establishing equality and justice for all. i think the system is broken when it comes to certain communities and that we need to now indulge in getting accountability to be what is -- to hold them to the fire. we need accountability. we need for the police department to recognize that they need to use their own process that they put in place.

courtesy, professionalism, and respect in all communities. >> debi rose from staten island, thank you for joining us. cedrick alexander, police chief, from dekalb, georgia, thank you. for viewers in north america, "newsroom" with brooke baldwin starts right now. >> i'll take it from here. you're watching cnn. i'm brooke baldwin. both new york's mayor bill de blasio and attorney general eric holder speaking any moment now on frustration and anger and tense times sweeping the nation right now. police violence against minorities. >> i can't breathe.