proficient codeer. >> reporter: some inmates never step foot outside these bars him for the ones that do, the technical stillset can be a game changer. >> we are changing things from scratch and are able to build on our ideas and say, wow, we can do this, we see future. we see hope. >> reporter: lori siegel, cnn money in san quentin prison. >> getting ready for the next chapter in life. thanks so much for foin johnijo all day. cnn newsroom continues with poppy harlow in new york. >> hi, everyone, thanks so much for joining me. you are here in the cnn newsroom. we begin this hour with two stories out of the middle east. both on the war on terror and two deadly group of terrorists, al qaeda and the taliban. first the pentagon planning to leave an extra 1,000 troops in afghanistan. outgoing secretary of defense

chuck hagel talked about that today in kabul. >> we will maintain a limited counterterrorism mission against al qaeda and its remnants, because as we draw down the combat mission, we have not forgotten, not forgotten what brought america to afghanistan over a decade ago. >> meantime, in yemen, a desperate attempt to rescue a hostage from al qaeda and failure. al qaeda terrorists killed luke somers and another western hostage during the raid yesterday. president obama ordered the rescue mission after u.s. intelligence learns that somers could soon be executed. our pentagon correspondent barbara starr joins us now by phone. barbara, explain what went wrong here. what we are learning is they lost the element of surprise. >> reporter: poppy, by all accounts, the navy seals did lose the surprise at the very last minute. something like 1 humidity yards

from the compound they were about to assault, where they believe the hostages were being held. they were discovered. a firefight broke out. and it became clear that the hostages were very quickly killed, shot at by one of the terrorists. the navy seals who were able to kill all the terrorists there, all the members of the al qaeda group and take these two hostages out and try and medically stablize them, keep them alive enough to get them medical treatment but what unfortunately happened, one of the hostages died on the aircraft going back to the navy ship and one of the hostages died then back aboard the navy ship while they were rendered medical care. it was an extraordinary effort by the navy seals. they are deep inside yemen, deep inside hostile territory and they spent a total of 30 minutes on the ground. they had to hike 6 miles to view

the site from where they were dropped. they had to try and stablize these two men who were very seriously and then mortally wounded and, of course, they carried them back to the aircraft to get them back to the ship, so it was an extremely dangerous situation. none of the seals hurt. they really don't know what happened. the speculation at this point, there was no security breach. they think it might have been something as simple as dogs began barking, as the seals approached the compound and that's what gave them away. poppy. >> barbara, we are talking about a young man 33-years-old who went to yemen in 2011 to be an english teacher and someone who really with the arab spring wanted to document it as a journalist. as a photo journalist. his college professor calling him curious, compassionate and creative. if you believe the al qaeda and arabian peninsula, they are saying this hostage was scheduled to be released in just days. do we know if the u.s. knew that

and would it have made any difference? >> right. we are talking about two men here in different circumstances, luke somers the american captured last september. he was working as a photo journalist. the other gentleman who lost his life with the south african pierre korkie, he by all accounts worked for this organization, which has now released a statement saying that he was going to be released tomorrow by his aid captors. what the u.s. is saying is they did not know of any negotiations for the south african's release. they knew that there were two people there. they believe one of them was the american and made the decision to go and get the american and the other person who was there, remember they say they didn't know at the time anything about any potential relief. their goal was to get the american luke someers out of there, because al qaeda had made it clear they were about to kill him.

that came out in that videotape earlier this week and they believe they have very good intelligence about where he was and it did prove to be true, unfortunately, at the last minute, it really pretty much all fell apart in terms of them being able to succeed in bringing these two men back alive. poppy. >> that is, indeed, a tragedy. thank you for reporting on it in the latest. we appreciate it. let me show you two live pictures right now. this is happening as we speak. will you look at your screen at both union station in washington, d.c. and also grand central station in new york city, where you see many, many people, dozens lying down and they term this a die-n. obviously, we have seen in in the days a tf non-indictment of the officer who killed eric garner. nick, i understand at this point you are there with a relative of

mr. garner. >> reporter: yes. there are so many family members out here today, bearing the cold, the rain, it's just starting to pour down on us, poppy. we want to bring in alicia flag garner, the sister of eric garner. you seen the video, the demonstrations, how do you internalize what you are looking at, all those people out there for your brother? >> it's a great sedation. we loving the love. we loving the pouring out of people of the different race, colors and creed, i'm just loving my family. we loving it because this is the support we need. we shoved the support a long time ago. maybe we wouldn't be standing ear today. but you know, it's good. >> reporter: this event has started a conversation about accountability. about police reform, about race. you have seen the video. there are still those out there who believe eric garner was resisting arrest. how did you see the video?

>> practically, the video is very clear. he was not resisting arrest. he was standing up for his rights. at the end of the day, you know, if police officers would know how to treat people more better and come together and, you know, get a little to know their communities maybe the community wouldn't be so resistant as they fail, you know. >> you are looking at this memorial to your brother. what goesz goes on in your mind, this wreath, the flowers, the people around? what goes on in your mind? >> i never believe we would be here like this. it's just so unbelievable. i just still am trying to swallow this pill. it's a hard pill to swallow. >> we give you our deepest condolences, thank you. that was the sister of eric garner. as a matter of fact, poppy, what happens next year, members of the action network said they're planning a national rally in washington, d.c. for next weekend. they said this is not going to go away. they're determined to keep this story in the spotlight.

poppy. >> night after night, no matter what the weather is, we have seen people voicing their frustration, their opinions in the streets there in new york, d.c. and across this country. nick, i appreciate the reporting. coming up next in the program after a quick break, we will talk about jameis winston, the heisman trophy winner preparing for tonight's d.c. championship game, also continuing to defend himself against allegations of rape. we will take you live and talk about the latest in that case. .

all right. tonight is a big night for florida state and the heisman trophy winning quarterback will try to lead his team to victory. not only will jameis winston beat the sell knolls in the championship game against georgia tech. this is happening as a result of the university disciplinary hearing over a 2012 alleged rape hanging in the balance. we are live with the latest. what is jameis winston saying

right now? i know he has issued a statement. >> well, he's not speaking to the media. the only thing he has done, we found out what he told former florida supreme court justice major harding during the hearing. they released a statement. it was a graphing statement in terms of what he said what happened that night. i'll read a part of that statement. he says i did not create a hostile, intimidating or offensive environment. the accuser had the capacity to consent to having sex with me. she repeatedly did so by her conduct and verbal expressions. he went on to say rain is a vicious crime. the only thing as vicious as rape is falsely accusing someone of rape. we don't know when we will get a resolution from the former florida supreme court justice. we are hearing from the accuser, attorney john clooney expects one in two-to-three weeks.

even if the resolution is jameis winston is expelled from florida state, he can appeal the hearing, meaning he will play for florida state. if they end up in the 14th playoff and go all the way to the national championship game. >> andy thank you for the update on that, let us know if you hear anything else. we appreciate it. coming up next, rolling stone magazine stunned people yesterday saying it didn't completely trust the main accuser. the main source of tear story. >> that bombshell story about rape at the university of virginia. a young woman named jackie. some people at this school argue there is still a problem with sexual assault at uva. we will talk about it with the student who both knows jackie and is still at the school, that's straight ahead. what am i thinking about? foreign markets. asian debt that recognizes the shift in the global economy. you know, the kind that capitalizes on diversity

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i am an electric crew foreman out of the cupertino service center. i was born and raised in the cupertino area. it's a fantastic area to work. the new technology that we are installing out in the field is important for the customers because system reliability i believe is number one.

pg&e is always trying to plan for the future and we are always trying to build something stronger and bigger and more reliable. i love living here and i love the community i serve. nobody wants to be without power. i don't want my family to be without power. it's much more personal to me for that reason. i don't think there's any place i really would rather be. well, "rolling stone" magazine now apologizing for its article on an alleged gang rape at the university of virginia. the article titled "a rape on campus" describes a fraternity house assault on a woman named jackie. they respond to what they call a gang rape. rolling stone says jackie flaims named her attackers. jackie spoke with the washington post several times this week,

she stand by her story saying quote i never asked for this attention. what bothers me is so many peopling a like it didn't happen. it's my life. i have to live with the fact that it happened every day for the last two years. let's bring in sar have a ganam, she has been following this. she joins us from uva. what is the latest, what is the fraternity saying? >> reporter: good afternoon, poppy, i did get off the phone with a spokesperson for the fraternity the local chapter a little while ago. she told me a couple of things, one is several weeks before that article came out, the university and the fraternity made contact with local police, began working with them on that specific allegation and there is more, i want to read to you a little more of the statement they put out today. they said while individual undergraduate members were contacted by the rolling stone writers, a comment on the quote gang rape," they provided no information because they had none to provide. the allegations were surprising and shocking to them as they

were to everyone else. to my knowledge, no member was contacted by the "rolling stone" fact checkers. as you mention, poppy, this comes a day after "rolling stone" battles and backs away on reporting and the woman at the center of that piece. poppy. >> and saying "rolling stone" saying a number of things, including that they should not have placed all tear trust in this young woman, also saying that they did not check with those that she accused. also saying that the lawyers for the fraternity have said, look, there was no party that night that this allegedly happened. it begs the question, sarah, why did the reporter and the fact checkers not contact any of those that were accused. do we know? >> reporter: well, yes, the "rolling stone" addressed that in their statement. they said, we were trying to be sensitive to the unfair shame and humiliation many women feel

after a sexual assault. we are regretting the decision not to get their account. they go on to say we are taking this seriously and apologize to anyone affected be i this story. as we mentioned, there are a lot of people who feel affected by this story. the fraternity member, also, sexual assault survivors here who fear this could take away from a greater issue, which is rape on campus. >> i'm so gad you said that, given the fact that the reality is one in five women on college campuses are sexually assaulted during their time there, it is a huge problem and jackie standing by her story saying this did, indeed, happen to her, let me bring in someone with and up close view of what is happening at the university of virginia and with this whole controversy. sarah menendez, she knows jackie. she is an intern at the sexual assault of uva. thank you for joining me. >> thank you so much. i appreciate it. >> let me read you a part of the apologies, the statement that

came from the "rolling stones" manager, quote, in the face of new information, there now appear to be discrepancies in jackie's account. we have come to the conclusion our trust in her was misplaced. when you read that statement, what did that tell you? did you read that as victim blaming? >> i did read it as victim blaming and i think it's a crime and shame that she was portrayed as somebody who gave false information and that there was no liability from "rolling stone" for irresponsible reporting. we were actually interviewed by sabrina for that article. i was not quoted in the article. i did feel the entire time i was being interviewed that i was being put down or that i was being asked to answer questions based on an agenda and i know that she really wanted to tell an important story and that she really wanted to get this story out into the light. but i think that the way it was done was irresponsible journalism.

so i think the problem that "rolling stone" now has is two-fold, an irresponsible journalist and a victim perpetrating the problem in sexual assault, not only uva but the nation as a whole. >> it's interesting, after this statement came out from "rolling stone," the editing manager tweeted six tweets, one saying at the end there, the failure is on us, not on her. so, clearly, you know, reacting there, saying the failure is on us, obviously, we are going to watch, see if the story is retracted. it has not been at this point if time. i just wonder what you think can be done, because as you mentioned, sarah mentioned, so many women are sexually assaulted. wraip is a problem on college campuses. so are you concerned about the entire controversy over this story, all the details of what happened taking away from the real problem? >> reporter: i'm incredibly concerned. i think a lot of people have

been coming out on news sources exactly like cnn saying those exact same things. i in my work in the women's center have worked with a lot of survivors, one in four, one in five is a real, real statistic. and i think that false reporting and trauma is also really, really difficult to kind of conceptualize. so, for example, we do have this very small percentage of completely falsified information. i think it's anywhere between 2 and 8% of rape reports are completely falsified, but a greater degree might have false recall or false information. i'm going to kind of draw a slight comparison, four years ago, brown university came out with a blog post linking trauma and post traumatic stress disorder and holocaust survivors and false recall with false memory recall in sexual assaults. the isn't to blame anyone. but this is how the brain interacts with trauma.

it's not discrediting any stories. what i want to say is uva certainly has a problem with sexual assault. so do many other universities across the nation. it's a national why, even a globe issue for women world wide. >> let's remember that jackie this week said to the washington post, this happened to me. have you talked to jackie? do you know how she is doing? >> i have, yes, i have not personally talked to jackie. i know her through a peer advocacy retreat we went on, where she talked about the story before it had even been dropped through "rolling stone," before it had been released to the public. and i know she was very afraid about this story. but i do think that regardless of whether or not there is false information, i think that sexual assault still certainly is a problem and needs to be talked about. so there will be light and goodness that comes out of it. because this university is really taking it as its

institutional message across the nation. >> i am glad to hear that. we will be happy to watch what happens, what changes there at uva. thank you for joining us, sandra, i appreciate it. >> thank you. >> we will talk more about, of course, did "rolling stone" blame the victim in their apology? is that distracting from a crisis as you just heard from sandra at uva and colleges across the nation? our panel gives their take and course on the unrest after the grand jury's decision in both the michael brown and eric garner cases. that is ahead. .

hello, welcome. i'm sonny hoffman, joined today by my friends and first up

today, "rolling stones'" apology for the university of virginia rape story. this is what the magazine said about the mane accuser, a student they call jackie. in the face of new information, there now appear to be discrepancies in jackie's account. we have come to the conclusion our trust in her was misplaced. but while "rolling stone" blamed her, lots of people are blaming "rolling stone." a writer for the "forker" tweeted this, shorter "rolling stone" note? we misreported jackie's story. we published it without checking it. we blame her for telling it to us. so "rolling stone" tries to expose rape culture and seems to shame a victim who dared to tell her story to the magazine. now, we have been talking about this amongt ourselves, we all have concern for different reasons. mem, your concern. >> my concern when i first heard this, my immediate reaction is,

okay, let me get this straight, the fraternity at the center of the firestorm now has concerns and they're claiming, for example, the party never happened that night and now suddenly we have to believe the fraternity wholesale and we're not going to believe anything this woman said when the "rolling stone" article says she went and reported this and met with the dean and she is standing by her story. that troubled me immensely, sonny. >> the most. especially because we are hearing perhaps "rolling stone" did not put forth the actual accusers and ask for their side soft story. market, your concerns. >> the immediate concern about the story is not the specifics of the story, but the ideological prism through which many people are approaching this story, trying to make it the perfect representation of their world view. i mean, there are a lot of people who really believe there is a culture of rape on campuses. you walk into every fraternity,

you will get raped. that's a bit overstated to me. but there is a real problem on college campuses with women being sexually assaulted. and how do you strike a balance? how do we tease out the truth and sort of try to not let the ideological sort of movement take control of the story? >> so, sally is clearly chomping at the bit at this point. >> i love margaret. i don't think, you know, look, i have been hearing this the last 24 hours on twitter, too. i don't think there was an ideological agenda to believe this, yes, but i do think there is an ideological agenda to want to report and address the realities of rape. there is an agenda that want the truth to come out when it is the truth, plain and simple. i don't think there is anyone cheering for this story to be true. i think we'd all be relieved if this didn't happen. i think the thing that concerns me the most, especially the way the "rolling stone" handled it,

is to discourage it, anyyoung woman or man in coming forward and talking about the truth when it has happened in this or any other story with eshould not have that chilling environment. that's really the story here. >> that's what concerned me, quite frankly, most of you know, i was a sex crimes prosecutor. that's what i did. i can tell you the stats support the notion that she would have been telling the truth. that's because if you look at the fbi reports and the fbi stat, only 2-to-8% of rape allegations are false allegations. >> 2-to-8%. if you look at the fbi reporting, one in five women, that's 18.3% in their lifetime are raped. and i would suggest to you that those numbers are actually higher, because date rain, especially, is rarely reported. it is very difficult for these women to come forward and most of them do not. i know that, because i worked with them day if, day out. >> you know what also bothers me, we will not get into the facts of this, they're all over

the place, in terms of the quote concerns that, the fraternity raised, that then had "rolling stone" walk back on their own journalism. they seem pretty darn inconsequential to the broader narrative. nobody has said, it's just not true. and what "rolling stone" has basically done is said she's a liar remember there are pieces of this they were able to substantiate. >> we don't know. i think it's unfortunate. if we are going to blame anyone, we should fact check the story. that's appropriate, i think. you know, i have been at the center of a number of folks on the left half who believe this story as one tends to do when one reads things in reputable magazines. folks saying, oh, you have to apologize for believing this. and, you know, my response is what i'm not going to do, what i'm never going to do is apologize for my inclination to believe women in the face of a culture and a society that's so is set up and inclined to not

believe women and water disturbing to me is however this is playing out in a he said-she said thing, oh, let's believe the fraternity. >> here's the problem, is that if it turns out for any reason that she is incredible or this story is unsubstantiated, the movement trying to bring awareness of sexual tension suffers a blowback. that's not what any of us want. but because people are so quick to ramally to this story before it was corroborated or the journalism, i think that movement or those folks that approached it that way are at risk of having, of losing credibility. >> that's what's so interesting. it's about the face of the movement. right? who is the best face to put forward on a movement. we talked a lot about the victim in this case, jackie. and how "rolling stone" talks about her. what about the victims in ferguson, missouri and new york. some again are suggesting they aren't the perfect victim. should that take away from their message, though?

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right! now you're gonna ask for my credit card - - so you can charge me on the down low two weeks later look, credit karma - are you talking to websites again? this website says 'free credit scores'. oh. credit karma! yeah, it's really free. look, you don't even have to put in your credit card information. what?! credit karma. really free credit scores. really. free. i could talk to you all day. welcome back. i the cases of michael brown and eric garner have been unmistakably linked together. they were killed three weeks apart by police. both deaths led to grand jury,

no indictments. both debate police brutality. also, some pointed to questions about their outrage over the tragedy because of the actions of the victims. in the "new york times," charles globe writes the argument that this is not a perfect case because brown and what would assume now germany, isn't a perfect victim and the protesters haven't all been perfectly civil. so, therefore, any block oppression flows from the cases enher rently flawed. we don't need to identify angels and demons to understand that inequity is hell. even in the wake of police violence of brack communities, are we scrutinizeing the victims and protesters? infinitely more than the system? is this an attempt from solving the problems of systemic policing throughout america? margaret. >> yes. yes. yes. and yes. >> enough said. >> look, i think there are

actually really important differences between the two cases, between michael brown as the exempt particular of this move -- exemplar of this movement. eric garner, both were horrible tragedies. but when you have, what you have seen is with eric garner's really horrific death and the no indictment. there is almost uniform condemnation there was no indictment on the conservative side and democratic side. >> true. >> there was a video about it. he is in some ways a better poster child for the movement because other people can't pin their doubts on the am by gowty in the case. you have seen it on video. >> is that true, sonny? how much does the video matter? >> i think the video is everything. to be sure, had there not been a video of garner's death, what we would be then left with is the police narrative, which would

have been big scary black guy, resisted arrest, was being aggressive, was overweight and died as a result of being taken down. that's what we would have been left w. i got to tell you, i don't think that garner is necessarily a better poster child, because we don't have the video of what happened to michael brown. we all are assuming that officer wilson or exofficer wilson, who in my estimation had every reason not to be truthful in front of the grand jury, he was on the line, you know, we only, we're sort of wholesale believing what he has to say. had there been a video, i think we would be in a very different place. >> you are a defense attorney, mel, what do you think? >> i kind of agree with margaret that eric garner is a much better poster child for a movement, if we feed one, because there were ambiguitys in the michael brown case. there are a lot of people, being myself, stand by the documents

is the right result i don't agree with how the process went down. i do think that was the right results, my opinion. however, i look at sonny, look at clive bundy, the cowboy wearing guy that had the standoff with federal agentings, aiming guns at them, he became the poster child for the tea party and fighting for your rights. that was a narrative. >> he was a hero. >> exactly. >> until he says it's horrible stuff. but look at another one, tamir rice, tamir rice is a 12-year-old in cleveland that was shot, the kids that have the toy gun, now, before that video is released, the police had already started smearing. not police, but people in the media had started smearing tamir rice, bringing up his family history the violence in the home. all this stuff. more importantly, the police already submitted a report. they didn't know there was a video saying he was sitting with a group of kids, that said they warned him all things you can

see clearly in the video never happened. so we, tamir. >> they're blaming the victim. >> correct. >> i think what you are basically saying is i guess where i fall on this, i do think there is no ambiguity of what happened to eric garner. there is no ambiguity of what happened to tamir rice. >> we are taking the conversation away from scrutinizeing the system and talking about the reason out there people are protesting these deaths, instead of having this scrutinizeing the victim, scrutinizing the protesters. i want to pull up this quote from martin luther king. there is a lot of comparing and protesting ferguson, martin luther king said, i knew i could never raise my voice against the violence of the oppressed in the ghettos, without having first spoken clearly to the greatest purveyor of violence in the st go, martin luther king. many cite, no violence in the

protests. none of us are condoneing violence in protests. but, you know here's something provocative. we only paid attention to the ferguson protests because there was violence. nobody would have cared. we wouldn't have had the media around-the-clock coverage of the protests, is that right, sonny? >> sadly, that's true. i am not condoneing rioting, the bottom line, when you look at the coverage, that's what galvanized everyone. instead of looking at the frustrations that the community i think was trying to put forth. we saw that frustration, it's about police brutality, isn't it? >> i do think it does risk sounding like the violence is somehow necessary in order to get ferguson on the map. we all know there are business owner was are real victims as well. >> they cover it months before the actual riots happened. >> we are not condoning it. don't say we did. in part, that's why we paid attention.

the protests are, in fact, about police brutality. also race, what we will talk about next is one more important than the other? and are police just reflecting something beger, which is white fear of african-americans? that's coming up. finally get in shape. not to be focusing, again, on my moderate to severe chronic plaque psoriasis. so i finally made a decision to talk to my dermatologist about humira. humira works inside my body to target and help block a specific source of inflammation that contributes to my symptoms. in clinical trials, most adults with moderate to severe plaque psoriasis saw 75% skin clearance on humira. and the majority of people were clear or almost clear in just 4 months. humira can lower your ability to fight infections, including tuberculosis. serious, sometimes fatal infections and cancers, including lymphoma, have happened;

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hello, and welcome back. i'm margaret hoover and i'm

joined by sally, sunny and mel. let's talk about the one word hanging over from ferguson and the new york case that word is race. you have white police officers, black victims. is this case about police brutality or fear, specifically fear that white people have over african-americans sh a lot of people say it's one or the other. some people say it's both. but cnn spoke with eric garner's daughter. listen to what she said. >> being that my father was black and the officer was white, as far as the situation, i can't really say it's really a black-and-white issue. it's about, you know, the police officer. and abusing they power. >> so, that's what we're talking about today. is this about police injustice or is this about race? you know, we all have different

p opinions on this. sunny, you have a strong view on this. is it brutality or is it both? >> i think it's both. when you hear the daughter say it's situational, no matter race, creed, color, you should be offended. you should be horrified, you should be sickened by what you saw. but i think race unfortunately is a part of the interaction that law enforcement has with people. and the stats are there to support that. so the suggestion that it's not a part of the dynamic, i think is just sort of wishful thinking. >> you know, it's interesting because we've been talking about it so much for the last couple weeks particularly sunny and i on air, and i've been focusing so much on the police brutality side, but i've been listening particularly you talking about implicit bias, so i get on the subway when i got off the train from boston this morning to come do the show and i sit down and i scan the subway and there is a super tall black dude in a hood,

hoodie, rather, and i immediately noticed my kind of sensors going off like uh-oh and i thought what in the hell are you doing, mel, and that's the bias you are talking about. >> you're not a racist, mel, i know that, but we all have that implicit bias that we carry with us for better or for worse and we do need to talk about that and be introspective about. i remember when i was in my 20s i was walking in harlem with my dad and late at night black guy comes up and i -- i, too, sort of was kind of checking him out. and my father said, what are you doing? you don't have to be afraid of your own people so it's just very interesting that even i have some implicit bias. unconscious bias. and i think people need to admit that that is usually part of the dynamic that occurs when you're talking about law enforcement and communities of color. >> how can it not be?

>> we don't have to even suppose this. there's research on this. there's a study where they took computer generated wheat faces and black faces. and showed that to research subjects. the exact same faces. just rendered by computers. and the respondents, the white respondents who overwhelmingly say that the black face was angry. >> and i saw it. >> and judge it, you know, look, that's something you consciously do. it's not something you intend to do. but it is just the way we act. and if you take that as one small example and how does that, then, weave through all our interactions which certainly how it weaves when you're a police officer and someone's life is at stake. >> we talked about the risk of talking about the bias that's unconscious that people hear this conversation and they think you're saying, okay, all white people are racist. >> i hate that. that is not true.

why can't we talk about bias like we've just done and not label someone a racist? i know medicalnknow mel's not a you're not a racist but can't we talk about how we all have a bias? >> and how it seeps into our perceptions and people ourselves, our friends and think about where does this bias show up in myself and how can i check myself each day or be aware of it when it comes up so it's not guiding my perceptions, my life, or -- or making decisions for me in a way that's maybe destructive. >> interestingly a lot of the police training that they're talking about implementing nationwide and here in new york city is on this direct topic so you are policing and doing community policing based on people's actions not based on this immiss sit bias that we all have that's never going away but through self-reflection and knowing about it you can do something to change it. >> that's what disturbs me if we don't have the conversation if the minute you bring up race people get defensive and say,

no, it's not at all. it's at all about race. just saying something is about race doesn't mean it's all about race. if you can't have the conversation. h no, no, i don't see race, the wishful thinking means you are not introspective. >> i think what's interesting in terms of discussing race i get called a racist on swtwitter al the time. the true definition is some races are inherently superior to others and then have the right to this dominate them. that is a very different definition from what bias is and i wish we were sort of talking about bias so much more than talking about being racist. >> much more constructive. thanks for joining us. if our conversation about implicit bias piqued your curiosity you can take the harvard race test chick it out on the screen for the link. if you do, tweet us your thoughts. tweet us whenever you want.

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you're in the "cnn newsroom," i'm poppy harlow joining you from new york. it's 4:00 on the east coast. we begin with president obama making a quick trip this afternoon to the hospital. the white house spokesman revealing that the president had been complaining of a sore throat and that his physician suggested he have some tests done there. let's go straight to washington. what else is the white house saying as to why he went to the hospital and didn't have the tests done, say, in the white house? >> the white house spokesman said it is something that president obama had been complaining about today and it was under the guidance of the white house doctor here that he go and have some additional

diagnostic tests is what they say. but they really are taking pains to emphasize here that it's a matter of convenience and not a matter of urgency. in a statement the white house spokesman josh earnest said the quickly scheduled test is a matter of convenience for the president not a matter of urgency. now, this was a light day for president obama. no on-camera statements. we have not seen him yet today. so the white house said that he was taking advantage of the light schedule to go get additional tests and they promised updates of those diagnostic tests, but, poppy, we do not have the results of them yet. >> they've just been done and they spent some 28 minutes only at the hospital. important to note the last health exam the president got in june came back, quote, with excellent results. appreciate it. two major developments dealing with the war on terror in the middle east. the pentagon planning to keep an extra 1,000 u.s. troops on the ground in afghanistan boosting

it to 10,800 for the first few months of 2015. chuck hagel announced that today in a surprise trip to kabul. and in yemen a desperate attempt to rescue two hostage ended in failure. now, according to the employer relief group gift of the givers they said they confirmed that the second hostage was also killed. president obama ordered the rescue mission after u.s. intelligence learned somers could be executed soon. the vice president called it a despicable crime. >> the women and men who special forces who were in engaged in these two rescue missions did an incredible job. and inflicted serious damage on the captors. but this time, this time they

were unable to save them. >> unable to save luke. let's more talk about this 33-year-old. when was luke somers. he was described as someone inspired and dedicated a photojournalist. we learn more about the man's whose work was seen around the world. hi, brian. >> hi, poppy. yemen has lost a friend today. that was the statement from the u.s. embassy in yemen after his death was confirmed and that sent simt has been expressed by so many others who say that somers fell in love with the country and turned it into his second home in the two years he spent there taking photographs. we can see some of them here. they're really quite beautiful. in some cases we see protests. we see political meetings. but we also see the ordinary lives of people there. trying to live their live amid conflict. earlier today on cnn, one of the other journalists who spent time in yemen spoke about somers.

here's what he said. >> was really dedicated to yemen. and he spent, you know, over two years there continuously telling the stories and documenting the people that he met and he really truly, seemed to enjoy it. >> along with taking photographs, somers also sometimes worked with the "yemen times" an english language newspaper in the country and earlier this week after the al qaeda militants threatened to kill him, the newspaper came out with an editorial calling for his release. luke loves yemen and wants the best futureeniyemenis, unfortunately the calls went unanswered. he was 33 years old. back to you. well, protests condemning the choke hold death of eric garner are picking up here in new york city. let me show you some video. this is a die-in protest that took place in washington, d.c., there in union station less than an hour ago this after protesters staged another die-in right here in new york at grafnd

central situation. then they left. they went on the move. they're on the move right now. our chris welch is with them. chris, what are you seeing? >> reporter: yeah, well, poppy, really within the last hour or so it was a pretty strength -- pretty strengthy march. people went from grand central station where i believe you showed video of a die-in. there were probably about 75 people there laid down on the ground for 15 1/2 minutes of silence. now, those 15 1/2 minutes signify 11 times that eric garner cried i can't breathe. plus 4 1/2 minutes to signify the 4 1/2 hours that michael brown laid on the ground in ferguson after he was shot. now, things here just within the last five minutes or so started to die down. they had a pretty brief march today. take a look around. you can still see some remaining police officers. you got them in the blue jackets over there. this is times square. kind of typical for what you see here. but while we were marching today there were certainly police marching right alongside the

group. and they've been saying, this group's been saying, the organizers have been saying, they've been working well with police today. almost a hand-in-hand effort, you got to do that they say to keep something like this smooth and nonviolent which thankfully it has been. obiuviously the rain keeping so people away but we did have a group of about 200 people, poppy. >> that's what i was wondering. thank goodness from most accounts what you saw happen in new york is what you want to see a peaceful expression of opinion. but last night i was here in new york. it was raining really hard. you didn't have as many protesters. it's raining today. is there a sense from the protesters that once it stops raining they'll be back in full force come the beginning of the week? >> reporter: i think it's hard to tell. a lot of the protests that popped up over the last few days have been very organic and unplanned and to help us answer that we've got someone that helped organize today's event,

devario johnson, why was it important to be here and the last few days? i know you were out with the marches even in the rain. why was it important? >> it's po aren't to make the sure social injustices are brought to the forefront, to understand and realize that these things are not acceptable under any circumstances whatsoever. it does not matter the weather whatsoever. our forefathers went through so much more. this right here is absolutely nothing compared to what they went through and we must continue to fight to ensure that our rights our protected a human beings. >> reporter: give me your sense. the first couple nights were big. last night a little smaller. obviously the rain played a part and today a little smaller as well. will this continue? do you think there will be several more days? how long will you go and how long do you think the protesters are going to be out voicing their concerns? >> we'll be out there until justice is served. >> reporter: thank you very much. it's the scene from times square

and things seemingly dying down at least from this group of marchers here. >> it sounds like from that protester they are going to be staging protests for many days to come. chris welch, thank you, appreciate it. the three cases of unarmed african-americans dying at the hands of police gripping this nation. coming up at 5:00 eastern here on cnn, we will examine the evidence, break down crucial video frame by frame and ask our panel of experts what does equal justice look like. but, first, for months kurdish fighters have been defending their home city from kobani from isis militants. we got an inside exclusive look at what the toll has taken there. and biker gangs joining the fight against isis. you have to hear this one. do they have any idea what they're getting into? we'll discuss.

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welcome back, i'm poppy harlow in new york. our senior international correspondent nick payton walsh spent two days inside kobani where months of heavy fighting between kurdish fighters and isis militants has taken a crippling toll. nick is now safety out of kobani and he gives us this rare look inside a city on its knees. >> reporter: we've been taken down this street towards the eastern front line behind those curtain they've put up to protect them from snipers, these

are two of the female ypg fighters escorting us down there and this is near the eastern front where there's been much more intense fighting in the past three or four days. while we get differing figures from whoever you speak to here about quite how much of the city is controlled, you see here quite remarkable devastation caused by the explosives used, what's quite clear is that isis are far from giving up from this fight, in fact, trying to take ground every day. their move towards the official border crossing three or four days ago that was a substantial advance they tried. they were beaten back. but each night particularly last night we heard very intense clashes further down this street towards the eastern front here. you can hear the -- you can see the absolute devastation here as we get closer towards isis'

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welcome back, i'm poppy harlow in new york. let's get some expert insight in to one of today's major stories the u.s. navy s.e.a.l. team the effort to rescue an american and another western hostage inside yemen as we've been reporting the al qaeda captors killed luke sommer and pierre corkie after yesterday's raid. u.s. president obama ordered the rescue after they found out that somers might soon be executed. it sounds, let me give it to uf, phil, it sounds like this raid according to our barbara starr went as planned until the last moment when they lost that critical element of surprise. >> look, when you're dealing in the war on terror as i dealt

with it on the cia you don't have any good options. back when i was at the agency, do you send a prisoner to guantanamo or do you let them go? as we've seen with isis in iraq do we get re-engaged in iraq after the president committed to getting out or do we support the iraqi government? it's a tough choice. do you intervene with a raid and risk the life of the hostages or do you stand back and just hope that they don't suffer the same fate as the hostage that we saw in iraq and syria and the answer is you got to go in. >> christopher, this decision was made very quickly because as the president said, secretary of state john kerry, there was this video and there were legitimate threats that this 33-year-old american citizen could lose his life in a matter of days. does -- how quickly this had to come together play in it at all? >> yes, it does. they tried to rescue him just a few days ago. this is the third rescue operation like this that we know of in the last few months and all of them fbl fahave been fai

but as weigh wrote in the daily beast today the problem is that the united states and great britain unlike most of the countries in europe won't pay ransom. they won't cut deals. they won't try and buy or negotiate the way out for these civilians who are being held hostage in these different environments. they did in the case of mr. bergdahl because he was a soldier. >> the trade. >> they traded him out because he was a soldier but for the civilians it's either rescue, die, or rot. >> one thing i want to ask you about the south african pierre, the aid worker who was there and who was also killed in this, apparently they are say'ing the captors that he was going to be released. and the question is whether or not the u.s. was aware of this. would that factor in to the strategy here? >> sure. but you're dealing with a situation where on the other hand you have after videos in syria the assassination, the murder, the beheading of those detainees very quickly. in this case we had a video

showing the american and i would anticipate if i were back in the chair in the white house that he would be beheaded quickly. so you got a very tough balance. the prospect and it's only a prospect that one of the detainees will be released in the high likelihood that the other would be murdered i would have done the same thing. >> christopher, what do you think can be gleaned from this, can be learned from this? is there anything strategywise that can be different? remember, thank goodness, the elite navy s.e.a.l.s got out of there okay. >> they lost the element of surprise there. that's the kind of thing that can happen. maybe, i'm sure that they will go back and look at lessons learned to see how they can improve their tactics in these kind of raids but at the end of the day it's extremely delicate and you'll risk killing the hostages as well. it god knows it happens here in the united states when s.w.a.t. teams go in to rescue victims. >> and there are times when it's

successful, look at osama bin laden. don't go anywhere, i want to take a quick break and i want to get your take on the coalition's newest ally. biker gangs from europe actually going to fight isis in iraq and syria and also jihadis who went to fight with isis now asking their country take us back. one of them even saying, quote, my ipod doesn't work. [prof. burke] it's easy to buy insurance and forget about it.

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at first glance it seems like it could be a joke. reports of european biker gangs packing up, heading to the middle east and fighting isis. but some of these biker gangs are from germany, others are dutch. some have posted photos online along with request for donations like bulletproof vests and night vision goggles. it's not exactly clear why they think they can take on isis. one german biker gang is made up of ethnic kurds eager to protect their homeland. others appear to be motivated by outrage like we all are about the brutality of isis. back with me now christopher dickey and phil. what do you make of this report? >> first of all, these people are going to syria to kill people. i'm not sure i like the idea of bikers freelance going to another country to kill people. maybe they come back and start killing people, too. i don't think it's a given that

they are perfectly peaceful, upstanding characters. i'm not casting any aspersions on any bikers here but i don't think it's a good idea. but the other problem is why is it okay for them on fight against isis a lot of them with a kurdish group who has been called a terrorist group and yet it's not okay for other people to go fight against assad because they might wind up in bed with isis or others? >> where is the line? >> how do you start to draw those lines? i don't think it's clear at all. >> to your, phil, i immediately thought wasn't they putting immediately more at risk, if they don't get killed and get out successfully they could easily be taken hostage and risk more lives trying to save their life. >> look, there are a couple deeper problems as you suggest. the first is what happened if they get captured and we feel as a responsibility as americans and to intervene and capture them. they think they're only putting themselves at risk. they are putting a lot of special forces guys at risk. there's a broader cultural issue.

there's a lot of anti-immigrant sentiment in europe and the uk and france and germany. i worry if you get people like skin heads or bikers traveling out to fight jihadists this will feed a sentiment back home. >> put to put skin heads and bikers in the same -- >> i under thstand that. but i'm afraid we are going to encourage people whoever we are it's okay to join a fight. in most countries that's a federal violation of law. >> the article does point out this is against the law. i want to talk to you about another shocking story about some french jihadis who have gone over to fight with isis, okay? i want to read you some quotes from this article that the journalist reported out, one of them saying they are fed up. they want to send me to the front but i don't know how to fight. another, quote, in the article i'm fed up. my ipod doesn't work anymore here. i have to come back. asking their country then to welcome them back. chris? >> well, not throw them in jail.

i think the problem is that a lot of these people who go off to fight assad, that was the original motivation in many of these cases. we talk about this as if everybody goes to join isis because they think that's so cool. some do. but a lot of people went to fight assad because they wanted to take up a great cause just like people in the spanish civil war, for instance. now they can't go home. even if they find it wasn't what they wanted. even if they find that they are having to associate with isis, they hate isis, they want to get away from it. where can they go? can they go home again? they can't. it's a real problem. >> do you agree? >> the federal government has to figure out what to do, do you throw them in jail or do you say let's find a whey to get them out. >> what do you do. that's right. do police have different rules for people of different races? how much force should be used on unarmed citizens? can we trust police to police themselves? all that and more at the top of the hour. but, first, a new kind of drug is being marketed to kids

as completely harmless, but it is far from safe. our sanjay gupta shows that on his show "sanjay gupta, m.d." begins right now. on the program today you're going to see an incredible brain operation while the patient is awake. but why she's having this operation is more incredible. plus, mike rowe is going to stop by later in the show. but first, there's this new threat to our teenagers, a new type of drug that you may have never heard of about the are being marketed to your kids addreas harmless. they are anything but. drew griffin is here with a really important story to tell. >> it's a story, sanjay, that the parents of two dead teenagers really want to be told because they themselves have no idea what happened to their children. the new drugs are called synthetics chemically produced designer drugs. listen, they are designed to evade the law, sold online, easy to get and before anyone knew what the w