wolf blitzer. he's right next door in "the situation room." wolf? john brennan defending the cia after a blistering report. did the cia mislead congress about its interrogation techniques. body for sale. ooi isis is trying to sell the body of james foley for $1 million. how officials say they are trying to carry out a depraved plan. capital protests. and a show of support for the families of michael brown and eric garner. what impact are the ongoing protests having? defectors revealing the horrors that kim jong-un releases on its own citizens.

what goes on inside of the notorious prison camps. i'm wolf blitzer. you're in "the situation room." john brennan held an extensive news conference in response to the report released about the torture at the hands of the cia. overall, he strongly deefended the agency, putting the white house in an awkward position. we're covering the story with our correspondents and guests and bill harlow, the cia spokesman. but we begin with michelle kosinski. what is going on over there? >> reporter: the white house refusing to even say whether it agrees with john brennan, that

these methods led to good intelligence and saved lives. well, today, a big change. we hear brennan now publicly agreeing with the white house, saying that it is unknowable whether that intel was knowable or could have been gotten by other means and this has become yet another question, when the techniques were used. the cia direct for today defended his agency in an unprecedented press conference. >> the detention and interrogation program produced useful intelligence that helped the united states thwart, attack plans, capture terrorists and save lives. >> reporter: but with a strong caveat on eits, lined with what the white house has been saying. >> let me be clear, we have not concluded that it was the use of eits within that program that allowed us to obtain useful

information subsequently provided by the detainee is, in my view, unknowable. >> reporter: john brennan admitted the cia made mistakes. >> i cannot say with certainty whether or not individuals acted with complete honesty. >> reporter: but he would not call it torture. deputy director during the bush administration when these techniques were used, waterboardings, beatings, conditions so brutal that one detainee froze to death, forced to stand on broken legs and rectal feedings. brennan said he didn't know fully what was going on back then. >> many of the things that i read in that report that were very concerning and disturbing to me. >> reporter: now democratic

senator mark udall has called for brennan to resign. president obama has made strong statements against these practices. >> that's not who we are, that's not how we operate. >> reporter: the white house emphatic that torture undermines the moral authority and standing in the world yet james comey, deputy attorney general for bush, remained in this administration. >> reporter: how does it not undermine our moral authority to keep people on involved during that era? >> those individuals servings the president of the united states right now are not engaged and not supporting a policy of enhanced interrogation techniques and the reason they are doing that is because the president banned it on his second full day in office. i suppose if those individuals didn't agree with that policy, they wouldn't be serving the president. >> reporter: well, there are still questions surrounding how much brennan knew at the time but today the white house called him a pat trriot and that the

president has full confidence in him. >> michelle kosinski at the white house, thank you. dianne feinstein presented the initial report earlier in the week and barbara starr is working this part of the story for us. barbara, what did brennan say about these controversial cia tactics and the intelligence that led to the killing of osama bin laden? >> well, to some extent, that's the bottom line of all of this, did this help get osama bin laden? brennan spoke again, as michelle.ed out, while some of the detainees were subjected to enhanced interrogation, like khalid sheikh mohammed, eventually offered up key evidence to giving up osama bin laden. it's not clear if the enhanced interrogation led them to offer that intelligence. listen to what he said.

>> the detainees who were subjected to enhanced interrogation techniques provided information that was useful and was used in the ultimate operation to go against bin laden. again, i am not going to attribute that to the use of the eits. i'm just going to state, as a matter of fact, the information that they provided was used. >> so he's refusing to decline but certainly leaving the door open. senator dianne feinstein, head of the senate intelligence committee, throughout brennan's presentation call a tweet storm, fact-checking him in realtime, in her view, on her twitter account. let's go to this point about bin laden. the senator says in her tweet that her study definitively proves eits did not lead to bin laden. the senator has a

#readthereport. >> she says there's no evidence that these tactics, these interrogation tactics resulted in the u.s. at least with other information finding and then killing bin laden. what he says, john brennan says, it's possible that they did in fact help but it's not knowable. >> exactly. it's not knowable, in the view of the intelligence committee, whether the information offered up what later did become valuable and crucial intelligence in leading to finding bin laden. it's something that we may never know, wolf. >> barbara starr, thanks very much. one of the most provocative questions at brennan's rare news conferences at the cia headquarters in virginia came from justin perez. listen to this. >> your agency is involved in

overseeing the drone program. and which we know from the government's own statements that there have been some civilians -- innocent civilians killed alongside terrorists. i'm wondering if you feel that there's enough control over those programs and that we're not going to be there in a few years with another director having to answer these same questions about the loss of trust from the public, from policy makers. >> i'm not going to talk about any type of operational activity that this agency is involved in currently. i'm just not going to do it. i will tell you, though, during my tenure at the white house as the president's assistant for counterterrorism, the use of the unmanned aerial vehicles that you referred to as drones in the counterterrorism effort has done tremendous work to keep this country safe. >> evan is with us here in "the situation room." what did you think of that answer? >> wolf, what he was trying to do is maintain that this is still a covert program.

this is a program that, you know, the cia doesn't acknowledge exists because it is something that is still secret. now, i do think that it was interesting that he was making sure, speaking as a former white house official who oversaw this program, that he was trying to make sure that people understood that there was great care being taken to make sure that civilians, innocent civilians were not killed as a result of this program, wolf, and i think that's the big question that we're going to hear reverberate from this debate this week. in the next ten years, are we going to come back, see documents come out as a result of investigations showing that the cia, that the white house was not being careful enough to make sure that civilians were killed. wolf? >> evan, thanks very much. good questioning at cia headquarters. let's talk about all of this and a lot more. bill harlow is joining us right now. bill, thanks very much for joining us. what do you make about this question that evan asked about

drones, that there's not going to be questioning in a few years because they are pretty precise but there's civilian casualties, collateral damage, as they like to call it. >> i understand, i believe that every effort is made to try to minimize that. on the other hand, in warfare there will be collateral damage. if you have a few known terrorists in a prison setting, is it morally worse to waterboard a known terrorist than to fire a missile and blow up everybody else? i think to capture a terrorist, interrogate em this, capture them and get information out of them and allow them to live and give you more information rather than just killing them outright. if there's no other option and

you know you in fact have a dangerous terrorist, then i think it's necessary sometimes in order to take them out. when you make this moral equivalence argument, the fact that we made some terrorists uncomfortable for several days, weeks at a time a decade ago compared to blowing terrorists up now and nearby, it's a good question. >> you said uncomfortable. it's a lot more than being uncomfortable. if somebody is waterboarding me or sleep deprivation or doing the other stuff that's been widely reported, that's a lot more than being uncomfortable. >> and if you get blown up, that would be a lot worse -- >> you'd be dead. because the criticism of the obama administration that i've been hearing over the last few days -- and i want to know if you agree with this -- because you served at the cia during the end of the clinton administration into the bush administration. you were there. you were the chief spokesman for george tenet, the cia director. during the bush administration, they were capturing suspected

terrorists, bringing them to gitmo or black sites around the world and they may have been torturing them but they didn't kill them, although one or two may have died during these questioning. the obama administration doesn't want to capture terrorists but wants to kill them in the drone strikes? >> people who killed during the process of a brutal interrogation, that's not right. there was one person who died in afghanistan who was not part of the high-valued detainee program -- >> it was a cia program, snow. >> the cia was managing a program where an afghan guard allowed somebody to die. it wasn't part of an interrogation process. it was a tragedy. it shouldn't have happened. that's separate from the program under investigation widely reported. another thing i want to clear up here, people keep saying, read the report, it's all in this report. you've got to read three reports. you have to read the minority report which debunks much of the

information. >> that was the republican report? >> which debunks much of the information in the feinstein democratic report. you need to read the cia's rebuttal which also takes on many of the things which are said in this report assured in this report and take it off the table. >> i want to take a quick break. we have a lot more questions to ask you, bill. specifically, is it true as some of the critics of the obama administration are saying, they don't want to capture any terrorists anymore, they just want to kill them? >> i know it's very difficult to capture terrorists but i do know that when you box yourself in and say we don't want to take them to a black site, we don't want to add anybody else to guantanamo bay, it's very hard to figure out what to do with them when they capture them and it's easier for them, if it comes to be a tough decision, to just take them out. >> bill harlow, stand by. i have a lot more questions on what we heard today from the cia

director, dianne feinstein's very tough response to what we heard today. much more of our special coverage coming up right after this. turn the trips you have to take, into one you'll never forget. earn points for every flight and every hotel. expedia plus rewards.

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support us at redcross.org we're following the breaking news. an unprecedented news conference today by the cia director john brennan strongly defending his agency against torture allegations. brennan is drawing a sharp rebuttal from the committee chair, dianne feinstein. we're back with a former cia spokesperson bill harlow. she was tweeting -- i don't know if it was her or her staff -- >> i think it was her staff. >> they were tweeting during the course of the press conference,

which went on for 45 minutes, tweeted this "cia says unknowable if we could have gotten the intel other ways. studies show it is knowable. cia had info before torture." in other words, she's saying that there's no positive benefits from the enhanced interrogation, that that information could have gotten in other ways -- what the director of the cia said today, it's possible that they could have gotten it in other ways but that's not knowable. >> she's wrong again. in fact, if you go to the minority study, cia study which is on ciasaveslives.com, you'll find that there was valuable information which was gotten from them. maybe if we had the luxury of time, we might have developed another way of getting this information. we didn't have the luxury of time. whe we had a ticking time bomb

situation. >> the nuance is, what brennan says, yes, the u.s. got very valuable information from these detainee who is had been waterboarded or had gone through some of these enhanced interrogation techniques. but they don't know if that information was a result of that so-called torture or if that information was received because some interrogator was playing nice with them and using other techniques which were not physical. >> go to the cia study and it will talk about detainee who provided limited information about bin laden's whereabouts after he was subjected to eit, he provided much more information, information which allowed them to track that person down, information which gave them details about how he was communicating with bin laden, how he was serving him outside of afghanistan. that was new information. he didn't provide when they were using the nice guy techniques. it wasn't only after -- >> why wouldn't brennan say that today? >> he has three constituencies to serve. the president who hired him, the

senate who pays the bill and his workforce who does the work and he was struggling trying not to annoy any of them and i think he succeeded with the exception of senator feinstein perhaps. he had a very difficult road to hoe there and i think he did a fine job in doing that but he had to be very careful he didn't go too far or he would annoy some of the other constituents. >> he's the cia director now and before that he was an adviser to the president for counterterrorism. he was the number four at the cia when you were there. i'll play the clip for you, that serious mistakes were made by the cia. listen to this. >> in a limited number of cases, agency officers used interrogation techniques that had not been authorized, were abhorrent and rightly should be repudiat repudiated by all and we fell short when it came to holding some officers accountable for their mistakes.

>> should those officers have been held accountable for their mistakes? >> i don't know which one you're talking about. an example, there was mention of somebody who held an unloaded gun near the head of one detainee. that person was on an airplane out of the site where he was 24 hours after that incident happened. he was held accountable. how does the committee know about these things? because the committee was briefed about it in realtime. cia went to capitol hill, briefed the committee in 2002, 2003, 2004 about these incidents. the justice looked into it and they found none to be prosecutable. there were things that were done that were not right. they were taken care of at the time by the people in charge. >> you won't be surprised that senator feinstein disagrees. she tweeted this today. "when senators were finally briefed of the information, they were provided extensive

inaccurate information and were repeatedly stonewalled by the cia who refused to provide documents or answers to questions." >> if you go to ciasaveslive.org, you will see the incident with the gun and appalled by it, it's in all in there. highly classified until a few days ago. they were briefed. she says that she wasn't briefed on this stuff until 2006. that's true because the president of the united states and the white house decided it would be held only to the senior leadership and she wasn't among the senior leaders until much later but it was the white house's responsibility to decide who gets briefed. they followed white house

guidance and they still do today. >> senator feinstein and her committee said the cia began using its enhanced interrogation techniques in august 2002. the chairman of the vice chair of the senate intelligence committee were first briefed on the program. they requested more information in order to conduct oversight. the cia refused. >> the reason they weren't briefed in august was because the senate was on vacation. as soon as they came back, they were briefed. if you go to "the washington post" in 2009, there was an op-ed by porter house and he talks about how he was briefed in great detail and how he was stunned to find people now claiming that they weren't briefed on it and that they had somehow developed amnesia. you can ask him about it. he later became the cia director. if he had been misled as the house chairman, he would have found out about it when they got to the cia and done something about it. >> when senator feinstein says

they were provided extensive inaccurate information and stonewalled by the cia, you sfo respond to her by saying -- >> i have no reason to believe that that is true. >> you were there at the cia at the time? >> i was at the cia at the time. the people who went to those briefings tell me that they were extensively briefed and i have no reason to believe -- >> john brennan, the number four official at the cia, was he extensively briefed on what was going on? do you think he knew what was going on? >> as you said in the press conference today, he was aware of the program in general. he was not in the line of chain of command for it so i wouldn't expect that he would have been up to speed on every intimate detail on it but the people who were briefing, the people from the operation's director, counterterrorism center did so completely and fully and responsively. it was a highly classified and sensitive program.

it's understandable that not everyone around knew about it. the fact that some members of congress developed amnesia -- >> who developed amnesia? >> nancy pelosi said they didn't get briefed on it at all but then she said well, they did talk about the waterboarding. a lot of people had amnesia and maybe it's embarrassing because they knew about it early on and maybe didn't object. there's no reason that i know of to believe that the cia didn't do what it was supposed to do, as directed by the white house, in briefing congress. >> bill harlow, who was the spokesman for the cia during those critically important years before and during and after 911, thanks very much for joining us. coming up, we're watching a new round of protests against police tactics, include a walkout up on capitol hill. plus, sony's nightmare gets more embarrassing. is north korea behind the theft

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happening now, new demonstrations. take a look at this, including a walkout this afternoon on capitol hill to protest police tactics. capitol hill staffers and one u.s. congressman stood on the capitol steps and held up their hands saying "don't shoot." with us here in "the situation room," cornell william brooks, the president and chief executive officer of the naacp.

cornell, thanks very much for coming in. >> thank you. >> let's talk about this. what did you think of the demonstration up on capitol hill? a lot of young african-american staffers. they walked out and they got into this demonstration. they are angry. >> yes. i think it's extraordinary for congressional staffers to walk out of this temple of democracy and to put their hands in the air and to say and to assert to the world, hands up, don't shoot. it is a testament to the fact that you have people from all generations, all races, all ethnicities saying we have to do policing differently in this country. it's being heard in our congress. >> are we in a new stage in our country right now of a civil rights movement as a result of what has happened in ferguson, missouri, and now staten island? >> i think so. you have people in all walks of life who engage in civil disobedience, who are making

their beliefs, their convictions about this democracy known. namely, we believe policing can be done differently. our children do not have to be profiled. it is not a prerequisite for public safety. the fact that you have a representative walking out and standing on the steps of the capitol saying, we can do differently, we can do better, we are in the midst of a civil rights movement. the likes of which we don't know the seend yet but it's happenin >> how do we make sure, though, the protests, that they remain peaceful, that there aren't, you know, provacateurs or to make sure there's no looting, nobody hurt, civilians are safe, police are safe? >> well, wolf, what the naacp has been saying is that

gasoline, matches, nonviolence, and even love persuades. we've seen when you can mobilize the public, when you can sway the public, move policy makers, make things happen. we've seen all across this country, 99% of the people are engaged in nonviolent protests. we need to focus on that. the 1% engaged in anarchy and destruction, they are not helping the cause. they are not acting on the wishes of the families of these victims. they are certainly not acting in accord with the spirit of democracy. the point being, look at the majority. the majority of people understand we can move public opinion and can move policy makers. >> we'll be covering the watch this week. cornell william brooks, president and ceo of the naacp. >> wolf, thank you. up next, a report that

middlemen may be trying to sell the body -- get this -- sell the body of the remains of an american who was beheaded. and is north korea to blame for release of e-mails at sony? there's new information coming in.

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for $1 million. brian todd is here in "the situation room." brian, what are you learning? >> a grotesque development if this story is accurate. tonight we're told u.s. officials are looking into this report of a possible negotiation with isis involving shadowy middlemen and fixers for the remains of james foley. he was the first american beheaded by isis. >> i wish i had more time. >> reporter: now, four months after the killing of american journalist james foley, state department and national security council officials tell cnn they are looking into a report that isis is trying to negotiate the sale of foley's body. >> isis is trying to sell the body of james foley for $1 million. >> reporter: buzz feed first reported the story. he spoke with three sources, who he won't name, middlemen who were in contact with isis or its associates. why does he think his sources are credible? >> i would say that each of these sources are people that i've known before and have

reputations for being in connection with isis. >> reporter: giglio says, according to his sources, isis and its associates has a specific plan for transporting foley's body. >> once it was confirmed that the body was foley's, isis would receive $1 million in exchange for it and someone, most likely a middleman associated with isis, would deliver the body across the turkish border. >> reporter: cnn cannot verify the buzzfeed account but james foley's brother says there is no truth to it. we asked giglio about that. >> i was pretty careful to make sure that this just focuses on isis' intentions. >> reporter: u.s. intelligence and military officials tell cnn, if the report is true, it's another example of what they call isis' depravity. analysts say the middle east is

full of shady operators trying to arrange deals like this. >> you often find middlemen involved promising western powers and governments and families that they may be able to get access -- get a deal done but also going back to isis and saying, well, they also have been in tough with government's family members and sort of playing both sides and trying to make money out of it. >> reporter: but paul cruickshank says anyone who thinks they can make money from this right now is not dealing in reality, especially since there was no successful negotiation for james foley while he was alive. wolf? >> i know there is some precedence out there, i know the israelis, for example, have exchanged the remains for israeli soldiers held by groups out there, they have gotten the remains back and released palestinian prisoners in

exchange. >> they have, wolf. we're told that iraqi families have negotiated for the remains of loved ones. the u.s. is now reviewing its policy of never negotiating with hostage takers but given this war with isis and isis' documented violence, it's unlikely that anything will come about or it won't be divulged publicly if it ever did. >> the u.s. has been involved with north korea looking for soldiers missing in action whose remains are in north korea and sometimes they've allowed officials to go into north korea and search for those remains. north koreans i guess have received stuff from the united states in exchange for that. >> yes, they have. >> brian todd, thanks for reporting. up next, secrets, insults and opinions never intended to see the light of day. they are going viral right now on the internet. is north korea actually behind the costly attack on sony pictures? and defectors release new

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scandalous secrets from a top movie company are showing up on the internet as the fbi and other investigators are trying to determine if north korea is behind the computer attack that stole the information. let's bring in our justice correspondent pamela brown. she's working the story for us. what's the latest, pam? >> reporter: wolf, tonight we're hearing the first apology from a sony executive after the latest leaked bombshell involving racially charged remarks and president obama in an e-mail exchange. and tonight the fbi is looking at clues such as coding written in korean to see if north korea is behind the attack or someone else who has a vendetta against sony in hollywood. hollywood's elite have been

rubbing elbows with president obama for years, making millions in fundraising dollars for him. now, a major plot twist. one of hollywood's biggest players, sony exec amy pascal forced to apologize for racially charged jokes she wrote about the president, e-mails made public by hackers. in one e-mail to producer scott rudin, despite being a prominent obama supporter, insinuates obama only likes films with black actors, like "django unchained." pascal, shortly before attending an event with the president wrote, "should i ask him if he liked django" and rudin wrote "12 years" and she wrote back, "the butler"? >> she takes full

>> reporter: today, she released a statement saying it's not an accurate reflection of who i am and apologize to everyone who was offended. it's just the latest embarra embarrassing week after hackers infiltrated sony computers and revealing social security numbers and salariesalaries. leaked memos reveal the next james bond movie is already $50 million over budget. other e-mails bash stars like tom cruise and adam sandler. >> you're seeing a lot of phone calls being made to talent and representatives trying to mend fences. >> reporter: hollywood insiders are saying it's causing many to go on major damage control. >> they're embarrassed and humiliated. it's very awkward situation.

>> reporter: a big concern is that the leaks could continue to spill out and haunt sony for months, possibly years to come. >> some people think this was a terrorist act, that it was the equivalent of a physical bombing, via cyberspace instead. >> reporter: and sources with knowledge of the investigation say the hack is believed to be politically motivated and the hackers are intent on embarrassing sony by slowly trickling out this confidential information and private e-mail exchanges to the public. in the meantime, we're told the company is still not fully back online. >> i'm sure they got a lot more information if they want to release could be very embarrassing. pamela brown, thank you. some disturbing new details are e merging about life inside north korea.

our global affairs correspondent is joining us with details. what's the latest over in north korea? >> reporter: well, wolf, the north korean government in the last few days, including today, has been accusing the united nations of ignoring inhumane human rights abuses by the cia while spending too much time focused on north korea. but now there are shocking accounts of the inhumane treatment by north korean regime against its po s people from th who escaped. kim jong-un crafts an image of a confident and beloved leader. but north koreans live in fear and die of hunger. on capitol hill, defectors shared new details of the regime's brutality. she came from an elite family before her world came crashing down. >> my father got arrested for his trading business and sent to

a labor and re-education camp. and he was beaten so badly he couldn't even go to the bathroom by himself. >> reporter: she escaped to china with her parents but her family back home still faces retaliation. >> some are fired from their jobs and others were interrogated and tortured. if i go back, they will kill me immediately. >> hunger is humiliation. hunger is hopelessness. >> reporter: his father starved to death before his eyes. >> after he passed, things became even more difficult for our family. >> reporter: his mother and sister escaped to china looking for work. >> my sister was sold to a man. but it was only because my mom thought it would be a better life for her than returning to north korea. this is important part of my

story that i hope illustrates how desperate the life is. and how many north korean mothers who are forced to make these kind of heartbreaking decisions. >> reporter: a student in new york, he worries about those who weren't lucky enough to make it out. >> i can't stop thinking about some of my friends who also lost their families. those friends who also used to sleep with me on the street in north korea. i am wondering where they are now you and what they are doing today. >> reporter: from the top u.s. human rights official, a warning to the regime. >> we see you, we know who you are, we know what you are doing. you can't hide it anymore. and it is interesting, the north korean regime does have shame because they deny this. which tells me that they know on

some level that it is wrong and potentially dangerous for them in the future if we know it. >> reporter: and that official, at this hill hearing, wolf, showed pictures of north korean prison camps and said he has specific instructions from secretary of state john kerry to increase the pressure on north korea, including speaking out a lot more often about human rights abuses by the north. >> thank you very much. coming up, california is being battered by the most ferocious storm to hit the state in years. we're going live to california. and the cia director's unprecedented move, defending his agency against allegations of torture. shopping online is as easy as it gets. wouldn't it be great if hiring plumbers, carpenters and even piano tuners were just as simple? thanks to angie's list, now it is. start shopping online from a list of top-rated providers. visit angieslist.com today.

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happening now. war of words over torture. new reaction to the cia director's rare public response to a bombshell senate report. we have top intelligence committee members in congress. they are standing by. hands up. a powerful image on capitol hill. african-american staffers walking out. we're following new protests against police killings and whether demonstrators are staying on message. california drenching. millions face the threat of dangerous flooding, massive waves and even heavy snow. and lawmakers are running out of time to pass a budget bill and keep the federal government running. will they beat the deadline? we want to welcome our viewers in the united states and around the world. i'm wolf blitzer. you're in "the situation room." >> this is cnn breaking news.

>> we're following two breaking stories. a ferocious storm churning through northern california, packing howling winds, threatening to unleash flooding, landslides, about 150,000 customers already have lost power in the san francisco area alone. we'll have much more on this story coming up. we're also getting in fresh reaction to the cia director john brennan. he delivered a rare public defense of his agency and its integrity after the release of a blistering senate report on harsh interrogation tactics. he acknowledged mistakes and practices that were, in his words, abhorrent. we also have our correspondents, our analysts, other newsmakers with us this hour as we cover all the breaking news. up first, our pentagon correspondent barbara starr. barbara? >> reporter: good evening, wolf. here in washington, d.c., of course, cia headquarters is one of the most secure buildings.

but today, in that building in front of the world's television cameras, the spy master drew back the curtain just a bit. in a 45-minute long press conference, john brennan never used the word torture to describe interrogation techniques. in an extraordinary move, he spoke to reporters defending his agency, reminding everyone of the difficult challenges after 9/11. >> in our pain, we pledged to come together as one and do what we could to prevent osama bin laden and his killing machine from ever carrying out another attack. >> reporter: it led to waterboarding, deprived of sleep, chained to walls.

brennan admitted mistakes were made by some. but never said the so-called enhanced interrogation program was a mistake overall. >> i cannot say with certainly whether or not individuals acted with complete honesty. when i look at what went on at the time, there are clearly the questions about why certain techniques were used. >> reporter: in the hunt for osama bin laden, did enhanced interrogation actually result in intelligence critical to finding him? >> i'm not going to attribute that to the use of the eits, i'm just going to state as a matter of fact the in fact that they provided was used. >> reporter: as he spoke at cia headquarters, dianne feinstein tweet stormed, cia helps keep our nation strong, torture does not.

brennan says there's no proof enhanced interrogation was the reason detainees offered up useful information. >> the cause and use of eits and useful information is, in my view, unknowable. >> reporter: feinstein on twitter, cia says unknowable if we could have gotten the intel other ways. studies show it is knowable. cia had info before torture. now, brennan also went on to say he does believe there's a strong prospect that it does lead to false information. the record shows that sometimes they just want to make it stop. wolf? >> barbara starr, good report. thank you very much. while the cia is confronting allegations of torture, the director, john brennan, was asked about another controversy hanging over the agency right now. the question came from cnn

justice reporter evan perez. take a listen. >> your agency is involved in overseeing the drone program. in which we know from the government's own statements, you know, that there have been some innocent civilians killed alongside terrorists. i'm wondering if you feel that there's enough control over those programs and we're not going to be here in a few years with another director having to answer these same questions about the loss of trust from the public, from policymakers. >> i'm not going to talk about any type of operational activity this agency is involved in currently. during my tenure at the white house, as the president's assistance for counterterrorism, that the use of these unmanned aerial vehicles that you refer to as drones in the counterterrorism effort has done tremendous work to keep this country safe. >> evan, you're joining us now,

evan perez asked that good question, a tough question. what did you think of his answer? >> reporter: well, this was a lot of nervousness in the room when john brennan gave that answer. he was not confirming the existence of this program, because it's still secret over at the cia. but he was answering the question as a former white house official who oversaw it. what you heard from him was a strong defense of the program. he was saying that they've taken great care to make sure that innocents are not killed alongside terrorists. but obviously there are times when they have been, wolf. you know, this really shows us that they're thinking about what happens ten years from now when a lot of these documents come out on this program and we will have a reckoning of what exactly has been going on, how well this was being managed by the cia and this white house, wolf. >> evan perez, good question. thank you very much. let's get reaction to what we heard from the cia director john brennan. joining us now, the independent

senator from maine, angus king. thank you very much for coming in. let me get your response to what we just heard. do you have a problem with the way the obama administration has been use thing drone program, not to capture terrorists, but to simply kill them and in the process, as we all know, there's collateral damage, innocents are killed, as well. >> i have to give a similar answer, which is i can't confirm anything about a covert program. i'm not going to do that. i can tell you that our committee is actively overseeing the activities oh of the cia, and i'll leave it at that. >> but you oversee, as a member of the intelligence committee, the cia. so without revealing any classified information, the drone program is obviously very well known. do you have a problem, without going into specifics, and i don't want you to break any of the classification rules, do you as a united states senator, who

oversees this program, have problem with it? >> i believe that the cia is acting within the law and the intentions right now. that's as far as i want to go. you're trying to get me to say something -- >> i don't want you to violate sources or methods. >> i'm not ducking the question, i'm just trying to follow the rules. >> the critics of president obama say yeah, he didn't like the torture, he didn't like the excessive entire gags, but these people lived to talk about it, they're still alive to this day. when you send out a drone with a hell fire missile and you just kill them, in the process you might kill relatives or family members. they're not going to be interrogated. they're just going to die. >> again, i can't confirm any information about the program. i'm sorry. >> let's talk about transparency right now. you were part of the group that wanted to release the 600 pages, redacted.

the cia director john brennan has a problem with what you did this week. i'll play this clip and let you respond. >> i think there's more than enough transparency that's happened over the last couple of days. i think it's over the top. >> over the top he said. he's concerned about what you did. >> before we get into that, i want to say one quick thing where i agree with john brennan. there are real patriots at the cia. there are great people there. they're brave people serving our country under difficult circumstances. one of the tragedies of this situation is that the actions of a relatively few people has tainted the whole agency. and it's sort of too bad it's the cia. it was a portion of the cia. so i want to get that straight. i think what's happened this week has been exactly what the country needed. it has ignited a discussion about who we are, what our values are, and it's ignited a discussion about torture and whether it works and whether

it's effective. i think that's exactly what we needed and it wouldn't have happened otherwise. that's why i voted to release the report. by the way, the vote to release the report was 11-3. it was a pretty strong bipartisan report. i think what we've seen this week has been, you know, a lot of back and forth. but we've seen a lot of information and it's people, information that the american had a right to get. >> when he says you've gone over the top, i think what he's referring to is what we heard jeh johnson, the fbi director, the secretary of defense chuck hagel, they're issuing these bulletins and alerts. mike rogers, house of the intelligence committee, says there will be violence and deaths as a result of your decision to release all this information. your response to these

officials, these cabinetadminis? >> number one, they're right to raise the threat level. but listen, we've learned that isis doesn't need an excuse to attack america. that's what they do, that's what their predecessors have done for ten years. if we say, we're not going to release information to the american people and the world because we're afraid somebody else is going to misinterpret it, that would lock up our entire effort to inform our public. the other piece is, it's not the report that's likely to inflame people. it's what was done. and that's why we've got to say we're not going to do this again. the damage to this country, as john mccain made clear in one of the most brilliant and powerful speeches i've ever heard in the senate, he said the damage to the country that's been done by

this far outweighs any benefit that we got. >> are you concerned that americans might die because this report was released? >> of course, i'm concerned when americans die under any circumstances. but i don't think there's any higher likelihood. we've seen isil do barbaric things without reference to this report. they may use it as an excuse, but i don't think that means they're going to do something that they wouldn't have done otherwise. >> we'll take a quick break. but if you look to obama administration officials, whether at the fbi or the cia or the department of defense, the department of homeland security, what they're concerned about is this report will inspire lone wolves and others to go out there and seek revenge. >> they were saying this wasn't a good time to release it. john kerry's call to dianne feinstein was it's not a good time. but there's never a good time. and we had, from the white house, and from the highest

levels of the intelligence agency, their view was, it needs to be released. >> senator king, i want you to stand by. i have more questions to ask. much more coming up. a powerful news conference today over at langley, virginia, cia headquarters. we'll get more reaction to what we heard. stay with us.

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we're back with the senate intelligence committee member senator angus king of maine. we're discussing the cia director's unusual public remarks today about tactics used to interrogate terror suspects. should anyone be held accountable for what even john brennan called the abhorrent

tactics used? >> i'm not into looking back. i think the important thing, this is a big issue. the important thing is that we learn from it and we not do it again. i'm not -- i don't think prosecution would serve any purpose. i really think that we need to look forward and say we're not going to do this again. >> so you don't agree with senator udall that brennan should be fired? >> i don't. i think that distracts from the issue. the big news that john brennan made today in my opinion was his very emphatic statement that the -- whether intelligence resulted from these so-called enhanced interrogation techniques was unknowable. he emphasized the word, unknowable. that's a far cry from what we've been told for the last five years and as recently as this week, people going on tv, writing editorials saying it

absolutely led to new evidence. >> because on that point tuesday the cia point out a statement saying interrogations of detainees on whom enhanced interrogation techniques were used did produce intelligence that helped capture terrorists and save lives. that's what they said on tuesday. >> today he said it's unknowable. and i think he's much more accurate today. if you go into the senate report -- look, i wasn't on the commity when this report was put together. i sat and read the report, i took a whole week and went in every night with a subway sandwich and coke and read the thing cover to cover, the 500 pages. and i got progressively sick, disgusted, and angry. it is very powerful, and a very strong case -- >> here's what undermines the report, though. brennan said, no cia personnel

were interviewed by the commity during the course of the investigation. this was unusual. you had five years to talk to those directly responsible. the senate intelligence committee made a conscientious decision not to talk to anyone from the cia, and that raises all sorts of questions about -- you can go through documents all the time, but why not talk to those directly response anyone is >> documents don't lose their memories. the commity wanted to do interviews, but eric holder opened an investigation until 2011 -- >> in 2011 the investigation ended. i you could have done it in 2012, 2013, 2014. you had three years to question officials from the cia. >> and they were. the inspector general did -- >> but the committee didn't talk to them. >> what i'm saying is, the questions were asked. the committee didn't ask, but the inspector general asked them

and we had access to all of those transcripts of interviews. plus the cia officials coming to capitol hill to testify. so the ig, secretary-general of the cia did lengthy interviews. >> i do think the report would have had a lot more credibility if you, the senate intelligence committee, would have spoken to these people, give them a chance to elaborate on what their e-mails may have said, their documents may have said. just as a reporter, you reviewed documents, you want to talk to the individuals to get a personal sense. >> i agree. that would have been much preferable. but the alternative was to just not do it. and i think on balance, the review of the documents is very thorough and i think very compelling. >> senator king, thank you very much for joining us. today we heard john brennan

to say there's no way to know if valuable information gained walls due to the harsh tactics. let's listen precisely on what he said on this issue last year during his confirmation hearings. >> i'm a strong proponent of doing everything possible short of killing terrorists and getting that intelligence from them. i had the impression when i was quoted in trech that there was valuable information that came out during those sessions. but reading this report from the committee raises serious questions about the information that i was given at the time. the impression i had at the time. now i have to determine what, based on that information, as well as what the cia says, what the truth is. and at this point, senator, i do not know what the truth is. >> that's what he said during his confirmation almost two years ago before the senate intelligence committee. let's talk about all of this and

more with our cnn national analyst bob beir, paul crookshank and gloria borger. he's still vague on this sensitive issue, whether or not the information obtained during these enhanced interrogation techniques helped save lives, helped find bin laden. >> unknowable is the word of the day. when you look at john brennan, you have to understand what he's trying to do is serve a lot of masters here. he's serving the president of the united states, who is ambivalent about this. he's serving the cia, whom he has to defend. and he also knows that in the future, if he stays as cia director, and i believe he will, that he has to repair a relationship with the democrats on that intelligence committee. so what he was saying is, you can't draw a direct line, and he's probably right about that by the way, wolf, between a and b. because in the case of osama bin laden, as we know, interrogators

were lied to, but it was the lie that made them think twice about that important courier. so is that a result of torture or not a result of torture? so brennan, again, walking this fine line and nobody asked him whether he thought torture was moral. we've been talking about whether it works, but we haven't actually had the conversation about whether it's something we ought to be doing. >> bob, you were cia officer. why is it so hard to make this conclusion that it either helped, it didn't help, that it's simply unknowable, the word that the cia director used today. >> well, wolf, i'm reading between the lines. the way i heard brennan's talk today was, that he's completely backing down, the information we got out of torture was marginal, at best. in context, it proves something or didn't prove something. but in no way did he say that it

saved lives or turned a case or found bin laden. you know, he's speaking as a bureaucrat. he's trying to defend the cia. he couldn't describe it as torture. but he's really backed down from his statements, even since tuesday and the week before. he's completely undercut the republican argument that it did save lives. i read a lot more into his speech than most people did. he basically said it's ineffective and we should never do it again. >> the statement they put out on tuesday, they said this information that was obtained as a result of these enhanced enti interrogation techniques did prove useful and saved american lives and was used to find osama bin laden. that was on tuesday. but today we heard different message. paul crookshank, there's enormous concern at the fbi, the

cia, the department 06 defense, the department of homeland security, that the release of this report will inspire individuals, so-called lone wolves to go out there and kill americans. what evidence have you seen that that potentially could be happening? because you're monitoring those websites? >> there's been a muted reaction in the middle east and on these jihadi websites. also jihadi social media. there have been some calls for some retaliatory attacks, but by and large, this has been met with indifference. this is old news for the jihadis. they already have a very dark view of the united states. they believe the united states is engaged in a war against islam. so there hasn't been the big reaction and protests we saw in past controversies, for example, that film came out just before the benghazi attacks.

>> we'll continue our analysis of what's going on. paul, thank you very much. gloria, thanks to you. and bob, thanks to you, as well. just ahead, time is running out to pass a spending bill. will congress get its act together? plus, a new and dramatic moment in new york and in ferguson, missouri. and the worst storm to hit northern california in years. we're tracking the wind, the rain, and the damage. it's a warning. a wake-up call. but it's not happening out there. it's happening in here. [ sirens wailing ] inside of you. even if you're treating your crohn's disease or ulcerative colitis, an occasional flare may be a sign of damaging inflammation. learn more about the role damaging inflammation may be playing in your symptoms with the expert advice tool at crohnsandcolitis.com. and then speak with your gastroenterologist.

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breaking news. last-minute drama in washington, with just hours to go before the federal government runs out of money. we're told the obama administration has made contingency plans for a possible government shutdown. members of congress, they're struggling to try to hammer out some differences and reach a vote on a new spending bill. let's go to our chief congressional correspondent dana bash on capitol hill right now. it's a tense few hours that are remaining right now. what's the latest? >> reporter: there's no other way to put it, congress has turned into crazy town right now. here is what is happening as we speak, wolf. the white house chief of staff of the democratic president just went in and is right now meeting

with house democrats because he's trying to convince them, not republicans, democrats, to vote for a bipartisan bill to keep the government running. what was supposed to be a rare moment of bipartisan compromise deinvolved into congressional chaos. >> here we are in the house being blackmailed, being blackmailed to vote for an appropriations bill. >> reporter: a bizarre scene. liberal democrats calling on conservative republicans to join them in opposing a massive $1.1 trillion spending bill to keep the government running because it eases wall street restorms. >> i'm here to ask my republican colleagues to join in our efforts to strip this wall street giveaway from the bill. this is not about partisanship, it's about fairness. >> reporter: how do you respond to lawmakers like elizabeth

warren who say that in this bill you have a giveaway to wall street that will ultimately hurt consumers? >> i don't believe that to be the case at all. and democrats have supported this provision in the past. it was agreed to in this bill on a bipartisan agreement. >> reporter: it is true that the 1,603 page spending bill was the product of intense negotiating and horse trading between republicans and democrats, like appropriations chair barbara mccullski. >> we debated, we fought. sometimes you give a little, you take a little. >> reporter: but it was too much giving and taking for wings of both parties. conservatives unhappy it did not stop the president's executive action on immigration. democrats, upset about rolling back regulations on banks, potentially putting taxpayer dollars at risk. >> it's back to the same old

republican formula. privatize the gain, nationalize the risk. you succeed, it's in your pocket. you fail, the taxpayer pays the bill. >> reporter: they're also unhappy with changes to campaign finance laws tucked into the bill, allowing donors to give $1.5 million to parties every two years. so here we are, a little more than five hours away from when congress -- when the government runs out of money. congress has to extend that. we have no idea how this eving is going to go, whether or not the big bill that was negotiated in a bipartisan way is going to be able to pass. again, this is something that house republican leaders and the white house are joining in together with tension from wings of both parties, or whether maybe close to when the clock strikes midnight, both houses of congress will have to pass a

bill to keep the government running. everybody is in agreement that they won't let the government shut down. i want to show you how much p bravado the liberal democrats have. max maxine waters tweeted a picture on how to keep democratic votes away from this bill, the same votes that the white house is trying to convince. >> we're watching very closely these next 5 1/2 hours. dana, thank you very much. dana bash reporting from capitol hill. when you think about what's going on up there right now, as she points out, the white house chief of staff is trying to urge, he's effectively begging democrats, please, vote for this legislation. join those republicans, vote for it. there will be plenty of

republicans who won't vote for it because they're tea party supporters, they don't support all this spending. let's republican in congressman mike rogers, the outgoing chairman of the house intelligence committee. mr. chairman, i want to talk to you about our top story, what's going on with the cia, the so-called torture report. but give me your reaction to what's going on with the spending bill right now? 5 1/2 hours to go, is it really possible, is it really possible the government could shut down? >> i don't think they're going to do it. i know there's a lot of concern, certainly. but in congress, at the last part of the session that there's a little bit of drama is like saying that the sun is coming up tomorrow morning. they'll get this worked out. there's a three-month extension that is being laid on the table. there's the longer negotiated package that's on the table. i think democrats saw an

opportunity to try to scuffle the bill up a little bit and try to get some things that they wanted. and the negotiation is fairly intelligence, including the white house chief of staff, working democrats in order to support the negotiated package. it's going to be interesting to sew wh see what happens. either way, we'll get an extension to go into next year. >> the speaker, john boehner, he's asking everyone to vote for it. the republicans have a lob sided majority in the house of representatives. why can't it just pass with a republican majority? >> well, you have enough of a number, we don't have that bigger majority until next year in the chamber. so about 25, 28 people can derail a bill. and normally in these packages that are negotiated.

this bill was a reduction, the most reduction on these big bills that i've seen in four or five years and the number is below what the ryan budget proposed by some $20 billion. so it's a pretty good get. we're going to work this out. it's going to happen. it's just now is it going to bed -- going to be 90 days. >> we heard from the cia director john brennan today. last sunday you were on cnn. you told candy crowley your fear if this report is released, it will cause violence and deaths, deaths to americans. have you seen any intelligence showing that that is in the works right now, that there are actionable plots, for example, that the u.s. intelligence community, law enforcement community have learned about? >> just to be clear, the foreign leaders, foreign liaison intelligence partners and our

own intelligence community assessed that there would be some violent acts. secondly, what we've seen is we had to spend a good chunk of money trying to make sure our embassies are secure and they're going into a higher threat mode. we're also seeing our intelligence services having to change some patterns for individual operations around the world to adjust for what they believe could be an opportunity for mischief, if you will. so we're seeing all that happen today. it will take some time, but you can count that the isil folks are taking -- will lift out sections very convenient to their propaganda campaign and use it and use it for an excuse for violence and will encourage others to violence and use it to

try to turn the world tide against american interests around the world. we're already seeing some of that, but it's going to take some time for them to get through it and packaged in a way that they think is valuable. >> so you're sticking by your fear that the release of a report will cause violence and deaths? >> again, that's the information that was given to us by our foreign leaders, by foreign intelligence services and our intelligence community. i agree with them there will be some incentive for violence, and it could lead to deaths, somewhere around the world. it could be a diplomat, an attack on our embassy, an attack on other american civilians around the world based on what they believe happened in this particular report. >> the other side, though, is that the american public, if you listen to senator feinstein and the other democrats, they say the american public has a right to know what u.s. officials were doing on their behalf,

transparency is important. learning from mistakes is important. and if it wouldn't have been released this week when the republicans are in the majority next month, it would have never been released. to which you respond? >> it's a very partisan report, unfortunately. this is an investigation that the world will interpret as definitive. not one person, not one single person who was involved in the program was interviewed. you cannot conduct an investigation without talking to individuals who even produced the piece of paper that you're going to use as a guide to draw your conclusion. so that part is incorrect. we've talked to individuals before saying hey, we directly benefit from information from this report. this report says there was no information that was of benefit. i think this report is controversial, even amongst republicans and democrats in the senate on the methodology, on what conclusions they came to.

again, it was a very partisan report as the chairman had released a bipartisan report. you can do it, but you need eyewitness testimony, and none of that happened in this report. i'm still worried you have all of that, they released things that have already been litigated. the justice department has cleared any criminal wrongdoing. they said this report is nothing new for them. they're not going to pursue any legal action. but now the united nations says they're going to prosecute these folks. the european union is calling for prosecution of these folks who we've asked to do something for the united states of america, and now we're going to have to get lawyers, they have to worry about their safety and security moving forward. i think that's wrong. >> congressman rogers, thank you very much. the outgoing chairman of the house intelligence committee. you were referring to that bipartisan report that your committee released a week or two ago on the benghazi incident,

tragic incident inteed. thank you very much for all your service over the years. i know you're retiring from the u.s. congress. appreciate it very much. >> thanks, wolf. just ahead, a new hands up protest. the message from ferguson, missouri, reaching the steps of the u.s. capitol. our panel is standing by. we'll get an update on that fierce and dangerous storm in northern california with wind gusts up to 120 miles per hour, and widespread power outages. o.. i'm an idaho potato farmer and our big idaho potato truck is still missing. so my buddy here is going to help me find it. here we go. woo who, woah, woah, woah. it's out there somewhere spreading the word about americas favorite potatoes: heart healthy idaho potatoes and the american heart association's go red for women campaign. if you see it i hope you'll let us know. always look for the grown in idaho seal.

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bracing their hands up in objection of the protests that began in ferguson, missouri after the shooting of michael brown. they are showing their determination to promote the movement against police brutality. let's bring in our community activist john gaskin as our law enforcement analyst tom fuentes and cnn legal analyst jeffrey toobin. and john, this large group of congressional staffers stood on the steps of the u.s. capitol and they are serving they say as the voice of the voiceless. there were a lot of young faces, out there showing support for eric garner, for the michael brown cause. this was a powerful walkout. when you see these pictures, john, you as a young african-american activist out there, what do you think? >> i think the demonstrations took a historic turn today. to see staffers, both hispanic, african-american and other minority groups there that work on the hill to take time out of their busy schedules to be

joined by civil rights icons like john lewis, to stand in unit and in solidarity to send the unified message yet again there is a lapse in justice, i believe that sends a strong message and it shows from the very beginning, many people saw there was a divide between protesters and what we would call spectators but now this movement has changed. you see doctors, professors at john hopkins doing die-ins and teach-ins and i think it is beautiful to see this taking place and i think it is very historic today what we saw. >> a lot of people are thinking this is the beginning of a new era, a new chapter in the civil rights movement. that is what i heard from the president of the naacp who was here with me earlier today. cornell brookes. jeffrey, eric garner's daughter attended a rally on staten island and laid in the very spot where her father died. the video, it is a powerful piece of video and what does it say to you? >> well it is certainly

heartbreaking to see her there. obviously we can't -- even imagine the magnitude of her loss. i would just like to add a note perhaps of caution. i don't think it is clear that this movement is going to take off. i think it is not -- these movements are very tough to sustain. the montgomery busboy cot was a decade before the civil rights act. these movements take a long time. they are difficult. we're heading into the winter when it is going to be harder to be outside and this stuff matters. so yes, these are powerful symbols, but whether the number of people can be maintained when thur already going down, it is a tough thing to do. >> it certainly is. we'll continue this confusion tomorrow. thank you very much. tonight cnn films is exploring the story behind sue the dinosaur. listen to this. >> somebody called me and said, the fbi has got crime scene tape

around the institute and they are taking sue. i hung up immediately and went down to the institute. it was like a hundred people and it was insane. i just went to the scene and i could just see them pack up my dinosaur and take this away. how dare these people do this. >> unconscionable. i can't imagine someone do this here in the united states of america, a free country. >> in order to ensure this dinosaur could be carefully packed up, we helped. it was pretty clear they didn't foe what they were doing. >> these people didn't know anything. most of these guys hardly go out in the field at all. what do they know about preparing a fossil or packing it. >> the larsons were trying to do a little bit of negotiating and put sue under lock and key at our place to prevent damage. >> i said to kevin sheefer, and

you just tell me and that fossil won't go anywhere. it is not like it will disappear in a briefcase. >> that request was denied. >> for more on sue's journey, watch dinosaur 13 tonight at 9:00 p.m. eastern here only on cnn. up next, drenching rains, howling winds, the massive storm powering the west coast. we're going there.

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breaking news we're following. take a look at this. we're showing you live pictures out of san francisco. parts of california right now are being battered by the most powerful storm to hit the state

in several years. let's bring in our meteorologist jennifer gray. what is happening in california, jennifer? >> wolf, we are seeing a lot of rain in california is what we are seeing. not a familiar sight at all. look at this, still coming down around san francisco and has been coming down all day long and will likely continue in the bay area through the overnight and then slowly improving by tomorrow. this is slowly going to start to move down to the south. but we have had lots of it. we've had flooding rains along the coast and we've had blizzard conditions in the sierras. look at the rainfall totals. 6 inches in sonoma, and in san francisco about 2.5 inches today and the rain totals will likely go up. not only have we have the rain, we've had the wind. wind gusts, 56 mile-per-hour winds in half moon bay. san francisco had a 50 mile-per-hour gust, monterey, 48. and then when you go up to the

higher elevations, we have wind gusts, white mountain at 14,000 feet, 139 miles per hour. mt. lincoln had one at 135. and the winds are continuing. looking at them funneling into the state and that will continue into the overnight hours, the high-wind warning still in effect and we could still see gusts over 50 miles per hour and gusts over 80 in some of the higher elevations. so let's time this out because it is going to push out ever so slowly. it will move out on friday morning and we'll see the rain push into the los angeles area and move out of the san francisco area and then they are going to get a little bit of a break on saturday as sunday. but get this, another storm on the way on monday. and wolf, most of the state needs about 12 inches of rain to start to put a dent in this drought or end it and so this is helping even though it is causing an awful lot of problems there. >> it certainly is over the next few days. jennifer gray, thanks very, very

much. we'll stay on top of the story in california. that is it for me. thanks for watching. i'm wolf blitzer in "the situation room." in the meantime, erin burnett "outfront" starts right now. >> "outfront" tonight, america's top spy from headquarters, defending his agency's honor. and eric garner's daughter staging a die-in as they decide the fate of the officer at the chokehold case, will he keep his job. and a super model, the latest to come out in the case against bill cosby. let's go "outfront." good evening, i'm erin burnett. "outfront" tonight, firing back. cia director john brennan speaking out in a staunch defense of his agency in the wake of the torture re