ready for the holidays. thank you for joining us tonight. set your dvr to record outfront to watch us anytime. anderson cooper 360 begins now. a conversation we started. the mothers of michael brown, eric garner, and tamir rice. in washington, they'll attend a rally tomorrow either planning for the weekend. gathered in harvard square staging a die-in. with sabrina and rice. each lost a son. they've all had to do what no parent should. mourning a child, baby in the public eye in the middle of

another painful episode of never easy but important reckoning with race which is a rule that no one seeks but these four women you'll see bear with strength, courtesy, and mixed feelings about race and justice. do you have confidence in the federal investigation that's going on now? >> oh, yes. i have much more confidence in the federal investigation than i did in the local prosecutors. >> do you think civil rights were violated? >> yes, they were. yes, they definitely were. because if eric garner was a white man in suffolk county doing the same thing that he was doing, even if he would have been caught selling cigarettes that day, they would have given him a summons. and he wouldn't have lost his life that day. i believe that 100%. >> anderson, it's simple. the rules are different.

when it's a black kid laying down on the ground, the rules are different. and we have to address them and be honest with ourselves. >> it's interesting because you talked, in these polls, white people don't view it that way. by and large. >> because it's not happening to them. they don't quite get it. they think it's a small group of african-americans that's complaining. oh, what are they complaining about now? >> part of our conversation today. somaria rice said ruled the shooting death of her 12-year-old son a homicide. it's the latest headline in her story, the entire story. however, not the first. back now with deborah feyerick. >> reporter: thousands take to the streets of new york. chicago. oakland, and dozens of cities in between. the protesters across section

with race and socioeconomic status, a reflection of america. united against a justice system in their eyes that's failing people of color. the movement gained momentum from a series of cases that exploded on to the national stage. >> i just grabbed my firearms and shot. >> reporter: february of 2012, george zimmerman, a neighborhood watch volunteer shoots and kills trayvon martin, an unarmed black teen. as the authorities investigate the case and prepare to take it to the grand jury, zimmerman is allowed to go free. protests erupt. the story became page one news. the president even weighs in. >> my main message is to the parents of trayvon martin. if i had a son, it would look like trayvon. >> reporter: gm is charged with

second-degree murder. his heavily watched three weekends in akwittle. >> we the jury find george zimmerman not guilty. >> reporter: another unarmed black teen is shot and killed in ferguson, missouri. michael brown allegedly stole sigg ril lows from this convenience store leading to the run-in with police. officer darren wilson encountred brown and his friend in the street. a confrontation ensues. wilson fires repeatedly at brown and kills him. the authorities swift and tough. eventually, the national guard is called in. a week and a half after brown's death, a grand jury begins investigating whether the charges are warranted against officer wilson. the investigation goes on for months, as do the protests. finally, in late november, the grand jury's decision. >> they determined no probable cause exists to file any charge

against officer wilson. >> reporter: the worst fears of ferguson and the rest of the country are realized. the non-violent minority drowned out by the destructive forces of the few. the grand jury near its decision, another tragedy this time in cleveland. this confrontation between police and a 12-year-old boy seen in the security video, tamir rice is waving a pellet gun around a park in cleveland. a witness calls 9-1-1. >> i'm sitting in the park at west boulevard by the west boulevard rapid transit station and there's a guy in here with a pistol, and it's probably a fake but he's pointing at everybody. >> reporter: police respond but fails to reveal that it could be a fake gun. >> the officers ordered him to show his hands and to drop the weapon and the young man pulled a weapon out and that's when the

officer fired. >> reporter: 12-year-old rice is pronounced dead at the hospital. the death is ruled a homicide. a week and a half after his death, emotions from ferguson still smoulder. another high profile case coming to a conclusion. the death of eric garner. garner taken down by a new york city police officer with what appears to be a choke hold died shortly after his altercation with police. his death ruled a homicide. a grand jury investigates whether charges would be filed against the takedown. after three months of proceedings, they decide not to indict. deborah feyerick, cnn, new york. >> those are just some of the peop people, nothing more than gen kar, zarmia rice. i spoke with them.

>> sameer, i want to start with you. just in the cuyahoga county, ruled your death a homicide. take me back to the day you first heard the news. how did you hear what had happened? >> they said he shot him twice in the stomach. just two kids. >> did you believe it at first? >> i did not believe it. but my 16-year-old ran out the door before i did and i was still in disbelief until i've seen my son laying on the ground. and the police were surrounding him. >> there's audio that's been released of tamir's sister screaming, they killed my baby brother. >> mm-hmm. >> they killed my baby brother! >> what happened when you got to the scene? >> when i arrived on the scene, like i said, i seen my son

laying down and nobody was doing anything. it was like they was around him and they were just standing there while my other son was like down against the car and i guess they was trying to retain him. we were probably 30 feet apart, me and my 16-year-old and me and tamir was maybe 30 feet apart. and i was probably 20 feet from my daughter because she was already in the back of the car. >> they put her in a police car. >> yes, they put her in a police car. so she was actually in the police car looking at her brother just blooeding there and nobody was doing anything. >> as a mom, the video was released. is that something you even watch as a mother? >> yes, i watched it. i had to watch it. i'm the one that released the video. they had to get permission from me to release the video. >> why did you want people to see that video? >> i think it's important that

the rule knows what's going on with my son. he's only 12. >> a few seconds after arriving on the scene with police officers. >> they scared him more than anything. if you could look at it, they scared him more than anything. it's like when they pulled up, he jumped up and they shot him. that's what i see. >> gen, just hearing this is hard for you. >> this is hard. a 12-year-old, not even a teenager. that's horrible for a mother to see her child laying there dead in the street. i know that was unbearable. >> serena, i know early on we met, you were talking about your son, trayvon martin. one of the things you felt strongly about was that immediately, authorities, police were trying to paint a picture of who he was and paint a

negative picture of who he was. is that something you see happen to all these moms? >> i noticed that they blame the victim and a lot of time, that gives people a kind of ease and a kind of justify why it was done. regardless of what these kids were doing or even what mr. garner was doing, it's minor. those are minor things that they were doing and it should not have cost them their lives. >> i talked to the head of the police unit in new york, if your son had allowed himself to be arrested, he'd be alive today. >> my son never resisted arrest. he had his hands up in the air as he was talking with the police. the police never told him he was under arrest. and he was just asking them to stop harassing him. and for what they were about to

arrest him for, like, okay. he did sell loosy cigarettes but he wasn't selling them that day. he just broke up a fight. just minutes before -- that's why the police was called because someone was fighting and he was breaking it up. but when the police came, they looked past the fight and went straight for him. so, you know, they were -- why would they do that? >> when you heard that the police officer had testified that he didn't use a choke hold on your son -- >> oh, please. what would you call it? >> he called it a takedown. >> if it was a takedown, why, when he took him down, he continued choking him? mashing his head against the ground. the rest of the police officers on him. the video plainly shows how long he had his hand around my son's neck. he had no regard for his life.

it's like it was a thrill kill for him. he never let up off of him. now, was that just a takedown? i don't think so. >> sybrina, they said, if the camera was on with the police officer and seen clearly what happened with george zimmerman and trayvon, everything would be clear. there is a videotape in gwen's case. when you saw the videotape, did you think, well, this time, the grand jury is going to indict? >> her answer after a short break and former president clinton's take on race injustice in america. set your dvr to watch 360 whenever you'd like. we'll be right back. in this accident...

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in cambridge, massachusetts. hundreds of people there in harvard square staging a die-in. we talk to mothers of michael brown, eric garner, and tamir rice. president clinton spoke about the incidents and the larger challenges he sees for all americans. >> the fundamental problem you

have anywhere is when people think their lives or the lives of their children don't matter, that they're somehow disposable like a paper napkin after lunch or restroom or something. doesn't matter. and we have to, if we want our freedom to be indeed as well as word in america, we have to make people feel that everybody matters again. >> president clinton said, more now on my conversation with sybrina fulton. i asked whether it would lead to charges against the officer involved in her opinion. did -- when you saw that videotape, did you think, well, this time the grand jury is going to indict? leslie? >> i really didn't know, to be

honest for you. because i was so for sure they would indict the officer that shot my son without a videotape because you had so many witnesses, which is real as the videotape, so. >> you don't have a lot of confidence in the system, as it is. >> not at all. not at all. not at all. >> and i know people are saying, make a difference in the garner case but we've got to remember, the video wasn't broken. it's the system that's broken. the video shows us what happened and can you imagine, anderson, can you imagine what the narrative would have been if what happened to her son, if there was no video of a tall, big, black man resisted arrest and never would have never and swept his death under the rug. >> gwen, you believe that too? if there was no video -- >> or had a story put together before they've seen the video.

they didn't know there was a video, so the police officers, all the ones that were involved, there was a statement and i saw it. that what they said happened to my son, the video came out the next morning and i guess the police were so surprised that the daily news had it frame by frame in the paper. >> i talked to eric adams, the borough president of new york. the former nypd captain, on the force for 22 years, african-american. and he said that all the stuff he learned in the police academy, as soon as he got on the actual force and the wing of veteran officers, they basically said, forget about the stuff you learn in the academy. we'll show you how you do real policing on the street. he said the way he was taught to police in african-american communities was different than on park avenue and largely, white communities. now, i talked to the head of the

police union who said that's categorically not true. i'm wondering about your belief, your perception of the police. >> that's true what he's saying because i have family in law enforcement and they tell me the same thing. there's that blue wall of silence, even if you don't want to comply. then you are pushed to the side. you're given the dirty word. you are outcast. so, you know, most of the time even if they don't want to comply, they will. >> do you think if your son had been, this is a hard question to ask you, if your son had been white and a police officer came to a park where there was a little white kid playing with a toy gun, he would have had the same perception? >> no, for the simple fact of my neighborhood where i live at is just where i live at.

the neighborhood i live at. >> you're saying it's a tough neighborhood? >> yes, it is. >> it was a difficult question, it's not so difficult for us because we're on a different side. it's an easy question for us. i think absolutely my son's race and the color of his skin had a lot to do with why he was shot and killed. >> the way he was perceived. >> originally and i could be the first one to tell you i was under the impression it was the hoody. it was the possibility that because he had on the hoody, that that's the reason why -- that was just one of the reasons. the main reason why he was shot and killed was because this neighborhood crime watch was looking for an african-american who had been breaking in houses around there and he picked the wrong teenager. my son was not breaking in any houses. my son was not committing any crime. >> how do you change that p percepti perception? >> i think we need a little divine intervention because i don't really believe people are

just going to change overnight. and it's a more deep-rooted hatred that people have more african-americans. if you're not african-americans, they don't quite get it. they just think we are complaining about something that doesn't really exist and we're living this everyday. this is our life. >> we've got to have more people in the community. we can't have police officers that come in our community and police us and go home and live in another community. they're not vested at all. they don't care about tamir's neighborhood. >> you've got only 3 african-american police officers. you'd like one that more represents the community. >> that's more understandable to where it goes on in the community, first of all. and if you don't understand,

you'll never care. some people walk back and forth to the store all day, some people get in their car just to ride around the block not knowing anything, but you have these officers that come up and they think they're suspicious. why do you think they're suspicious? they can't for a walk, can't go for a ride? you see people going out to walk their dogs or just take a jog. does that make them look suspicious, even in their neighborhood? >> when you saw the protest in miami, oakland, new york city, all around the country. >> yes. >> and you saw athletes wearing t-shirts that say, i can't breathe. what went through your mind? >> gwen carr's answer and hopefully what will come out of all of this after a short break. 6- and the optics industry in germany? at t. rowe price, we understand the connections of a complex, global economy. it's just one reason over 70% of our mutual funds beat

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looking again tonight. a video from a short time ago. from harvard square taking part in a die-in. captured headlines, the basis across the country in the past week. in a moment, what has now become

a movement with sunny hostin and harry how. more with sybrina fulton, lesley mcspadden and rice. >> in oakland, all around the country. >> yes. >> you saw athletes wearing t-shirts that say i can't breathe. >> i felt overwhelming feeling of support. like everyone saw what i saw. >> caught up in the traffic. >> yes. and saw this protest coming towards us. it's the protesters, you know, and i opened the window and my sister said, if you don't close that window, you ain't never going to get out of here if they recognize you.

but i said i have to wave at them. >> it was probably the first time you didn't mind being stuck in traffic. >> right. one guy, he was white. he recognized, the first guy to recognize me said that's eric garner's mother and came over to the car, shook my hand and said we're with you. i said, thank you so much sir and the rest of them, they were touching my hand. you know, they came briefly and just kept on walking. some took pictures. >> it helped. >> it felt so good. >> do you have confidence in the federal investigation that's going on now? >> oh, yes. i have much more confidence in the federal investigation than i did in the local investigation. >> you believe your son's rights were violated? >> yes, they definitely were. because if eric garner was a white man in suffolk county doing the same thing that he was doing, even if he would have

been caught selling cigarettes that day, they would have given him a summons. and he wouldn't have lost his life that day. i believe that 100%. >> do a reenactment in each one of these cases and turn it around. make the shooter a black man and the person killed a white person and you put that out there and see what people's perceptions are. >> i remember that was done in your son's case. >> yes, i can guarantee you their ideas would be changed. then they would say, oh, yes. that was a choke hold. oh, yes, that was a toy gun he had. oh, yes, michael brown had his hands up. see, all of these things would be changed. they'll say, look at the little boy, the teenager walking from the store with his drink and candy. see, now when you change the

color of these people, then you'll be able to really see. >> it's simple. the rules are different. when it's a black kid dying on the ground, the rules are different and we have to address them and be honest with ourselves. >> you talked to, again, in these polls, white people don't view it that way by and large. >> they don't need to. >> it's not happening to them. so they don't quite get it. they don't quite understand. that think it's a small group of african-americans that's complaining. oh, what are they complaining about now? >> you hear them from people? >> oh, yeah. the people say that all the time. what are they complaining about now? what are they protesting about now? what are they marching about now? until it happens to them and in their family, then they'll understand. they don't understand what we're going through. they don't understand the life and they don't understand what

we're fighting against. i don't even think the government quite gets it. >> walking in your shoes on a dai daily basis. >> this is not something that's new. it's been happening. but it's just bringing light to what's been happening. it's bringing it to the forefront and that's why it's so much conversations. that's why so many rallies and protests because people are now realizing, if you look at those footage in new york, it's not just african-americans. >> it's everybody. >> it's not just about african-american rights. it's about human rights. >> no parent should bury a child. >> thank you very much for talking. i appreciate it. >> thank you. >> thank you for your story. >> thank you. >> lot to talk about. joining me, cnn legal analyst sunny hostin, harry hout and

boyce watkins. sunny, let me start with you. what jumps out from you hearing from these moms? >> first, i thought at least they have each other for support and then who wants to be a member of that club? and there are far too many of them experiencing the death of their children and how very odd that is, but it seems to me what ties them together is the fact that their sons were black men, black boys that were seen as threats to someone that was white. it's striking to me that so many people don't see that. don't see that's what ties these stories together. it's sort of that implicit bias that exists and no one wants to talk about. no one wants to admit it exists. >> some people say, look, there's things you can point to as mike brown who just done a

convenience store robbery, allegedly. it seems like that conversation, i think this is an important conversation to have, oftentimes, we talk in passing. >> i don't see this as a racial issue myself though. because -- >> you don't think race had a role in any of these? >> i don't. when i'm involved in something as a detective, i am not looking at the person's skin. i'm looking at the incident and what i've got to do to affect an arrest or save somebody's life. it's ngot nothing to do with th color of their skin. >> professor watkinwatkins, you thoughts? >> racism is a social disease that lies in grain the very fabric of this nation. it's been here since the nation's inception. i think this disease has the greatest impact to those who think they've been cured. if you look at these situations, what you really see are

situations where we perceive officers to be good people. and some of them are. many of them are. there's a lot of good cops out there. but there are a lot of officers, for some reason, think they're above the law. sometimes may operate like a street gang or a bully. the bully kind of knows where they can throw their weight around. if you're policing in a black neighborhood, you know that you can get away with certain things you couldn't get away with in a wealthy white neighborhood because you know the other person on the other side of that offense or of that interaction is going to be one of the least trusted most feared meaning the black male. the cop goes into court, the benefit of the doubt is so heavily skewed, the truth gets lost in the process. >> i want to get a take. quick break and then a longer discussion, 10 minutes or so. more to get into that,

professor. the conversation continues in just a moment.

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conversation tonight.

looking at video from protests in the street of harvard university outside of boston, first of what's expected to be a number of demonstrations across the country this weekend including a big one in washington, d.c. tomorrow. with us tonight, cnn legal analyst and former federal prosecutor, sunny hostin, harry rout. back in 2000, it showed differences among police officers in the way they perceived things. discrepancy between what white officers and african-american police officers when it came to using physical force against african-americans, minorities. 57% of african-american police officers thought african-americans and other minorities were given unequal treatment. 5% of white officers thought african-american minorities were given unequal treatment. it's interesting to see that difference in perception even among police officers. >> that's interesting. that definitely is. i don't know how they ran the

survey. i don't know the questions they were asked. but i can't dispute it in any way. all i know is from my experience and what i've seen. there's some bad cops out there. of course there are. you know? >> it about racism or implicit bias tests are done and you can take the test online and just peoples' inherent instant gut level reactions when they see somebody of a different race, when they see somebody of their own race, do you think it is as clear cut as somebody's racist? >> well, i think that we often make the mistake of believing that racism is sort of a conscious decision. that there are police officers who get up everyday just with an

insatiable appetite for the blood of young black men. i don't believe that. i believe most people want to believe they're good people. my dad was a cop for 25 years and i know a lot of cops who took the job because they actually want to serve and help the public. the problem is that the image of the black male is so tainted, even in media and other places, to the point that they somehow misconstrue the process and dealing with poor young black men in the inner city. we're fighting the enemy, enemy combatants that have to be controlled and managed. you get to the point the humanity of the black male gets tossed to the side. people think we love our children less, we work less. we're these big barbaric monsters that need to be put down. what really touched me, gives me hope in america, if you look at the people protesting the life or the death of eric garner and these young men killed, many protesters are white and many

people want to do the right thing. i think that's what we can hold on to as we move forward as a country. >> sunny? >> i think it certainly is about implicit bias because the bottom line, anderson, whether or not people want to admit it, whether or not harry wants to admit it, when you look at all of these cases we've been talking about, you hear that michael brown is described as demonic. trayvon martin was so aggressive. he was using the concrete as a weapon. you hear that tamir rice looked like an older kid because he was 5'8" and 190 pounds. guess what? so was my son. you met him, anderson. he's not aggressive. the threat is always the same. that these boys, these men are aggressive and they're demonic and giant and i think there are a lot of great officers but when they go into the field and police in african-american communities, they are more apt to decide that these kids are

threatening and until we start to admit and recognize that there is a problem of implicit bias, we are not going to go anywhere. we'll be covering these stories until the end of time. >> is that because of race or because they were operating in a community with a high crime community and therefore more on their guard? >> i think that it is because of race. i think it's because of bias. to be sure, there are plenty of white kids, anderson, there are shoplifting and not policed with the same aggression that african-american men and boys are policed. that's a statistical fact. >> i don't believe that. >> do you believe there's different policing in different communities? >> admitted that in september. >> he believes police officers want to go out and harass people in the community. >> he said some people may think that, but does not believe that.

he believes they're trying to do a good job. he doesn't believe that. but we had the bureau president. had veteran officers showing real police that the way he learned to police in communities, african-american communities was different than he'd police on park avenue. i worked in communities. you might work in a little different and be on guard more. >> but you're saying -- >> listen. go in a black neighborhood. you've got to understand, racial profiling is where it all begins. part of the reason many of these interactions with police between police officers and black men end badly is because of so many interactions that black men are forced to endure that many white citizens are not.

i'll tell you this. with the kids at riker's island with small bags of weed, i dare you to raid a college campus over the weekend. you'll find all kinds of drugs there but you don't do that because they don't raid like the inner city community. if we find a way to confront that or any officer who doesn't believe -- most agree racial profiling is rampant in society. >> i disagree. this whole racial profiling is something somebody made up and let's just use this as -- police officers -- i mean, black people are committing the majority of these crimes in the inner city of the neighborhood. >> black people are inherently criminal? >> when somebody puts over as a perpetrator and have three black males who fit this description. should i stop three white guys to make it even?

i dare you to go police on park avenue the way you do in the projects and brooklyn. you're not going to do that. >> i have. i have. >> you see so many african-americans for drug crimes even though they use the same. i think you're one of the cops that make the good cops look bad. >> is that what you're saying? >> absolutely. i know the difference between good and bad cops. you're lying. you're embarrassing your profession. all of these people are dying and you're not being realistic. you need to go look at the data. >> the data, right. >> i think the bottom line is that the data does support the fact that african-american communities are policed more aggressively. >> crimes. >> black people are not

inherently more criminal. that is just not true and the stats do not support what you're saying. until we recognize that, we're not going to go forward as a society. >> let's continue this conversation on twitter on anderson cooper. sunny hostin as well. debris in rooftops of one neighborhood. we'll take you there next.

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tides, another home close to washington state. vacation home sliding partly into the pacific ocean. unbelievable. this is in washaway beach. the third home to suffer this. 100 feet per year. breaking news, a massive storm brought torrential rain in southern california, driving some people from homes, damaging others. for those who stayed, tens of thousands of people still without power right now in one area, a mud slide piled rocks as high as the houses themselves.

stephanie elam joining us now. what is that pile right there? >> reporter: believe it or not, we're standing on the side of the house here. i use my phone to light in here. we'll show how much the mud came in breaking through this door and cascading up. you see the side of the boulders that came cascading down. this happened after 2:00 in the morning. so it was in the middle of the night. look at this. just the thickness of the mud that's caked in the side of the gutter. all of this mud cascading down here. it's amazing there were no reported injuries from this, anderson. >> what's the weather like in the coming hours? >> reporter: in the coming hour, we may have more thunderstorms but in the coming week, there's more rain expected. california is in the middle of a devastating drought.

this is not ending anything. while we do need the water for people who live in communities like this one here, it's definitely a situation of too much of one good thing. as they try to figure out how they're going to clean up with all of this massive situation of rocks and mud that have left ten homes here that we know that have been damaged and heavily damaged at that, anderson. >> stephanie elam, incredible pictures. thank you very much. susan hendricks. >> reporter: a manhunt under way in portland, oregon, for a shooter who wounded three teenagers in a high school. one hospitalized, one in critical condition. there are flight delays and cancellations for travelers going in and out of london after the city's airspace was temporarily shut down due to a technical glitch with the air traffic control system. officials say it was not hacked, but they are trying to figure out exactly why this occurred. and a rough friday for the dow. look, it fell more than 300

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quick update on har hard square protest. a so-called die-in that stretched several hundred feet in massachusetts avenue. march into central square nearby before marching back to the university. according to karim son, cambridge police department brought in additional police officers. paper said no arrests made and more demonstrations are this weekend and elsewhere around the country, the nation's capitol. i interviewed the four mothers earlier in the broadcast taking

part in the demonstrations. that does it for us. thank you very much for watching. death row stories starts now. on this episode, a millionaire is accused of brutal murders in a downtown miami hotel. >> the crime scene was a bloody mess. >> but after a death sentence, one man fights to save his life. >> got the federal court to say my guy's innocent. too bad, mate. that's got nothing to do with it. >> what he discovers will turn the case upside down. >> anybody will say, that's not allowed. this was more covered up than any case i've seen