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and we'd like to welcome our viewers in the united states and around the world to our ongoing breaking news coverage out of sidney. i'm john vause. >> and i'm natalie allen. yes, we've been at it for several hours now for the situation in sidney, australia, where a gunman has been holding people captive now since, well, the morning hours there in australia. >> for about eight hours, he's holding an unknown number of hostages at the coffee shop in the heart of sidney's business district. police have made contact with

the hostage taker but are not saying anything about his mot e motive. >> police are not revealing the number of hostages. a flag with an islamic message was held up to the cafe win die. hostages have also been forced to stand against the window. can you see their hands pressed against the glass. heavily armed police have taken positions around the cafe. cordoned off around this cafe. and there's also video within the last hour, three hostages who managed to get out. you're about to see them. there's the first one running around the corner. then you're about to see the third. >> which comes out of another exit, which is a fire exit, which is the dark door in the distance. a third worker comes out. authorities have evacuated a very large area, three blocks in every direction around where

this is taking place. there have been evacuations linked to suspicious packages around the city. and we're also told that air traffic has been rerouted near sydney. but the prime minister has urged people to go about their business. >> the whole point of politically motivated violence is to scare people out of being themselv themselves. australia is a peaceful, open and generous society. nothing should ever change that. and that's why i would urge all australians today to go about their business as usual. >> that was tony abbott several hours ago. their business as usual is leaving the downtown area and going home. >> it is what, just on 5:00 local time. many people will be trying to get out of that area.

and anna coren is there. we know much of the area had already been evacuated. many people are still stuck in office buildings nearby. are they able to get out yet? >> reporter: yeah, we saw a stream of people walking past the area that is now on lockdown. and i spoke to some of them, and they said they were told to keep away from the windows in case there were any explosives or the gunman started firing. once police managed to access those buildings, they were evacuated ten at a time. but certainly, people very, you know, shaken up by what is taking place. this is just a normal monday for many people, starting the working week. 10:00. suddenly there is a siege unfolding in the heart of the city. and at a cafe, the lindt

chocolate cafe where people would pick up their coffee and head up to work. certainly there were people at the wrong place at the wrong time. and this gunman walked in with weapons. we know he's armed, that's according to the deputy police commissioner kathryn byrne. she said they are currently in touch with the gunman. police have negotiated talking with him. they have made contact, and obviously, we then have development of those three hostages managing to escape from the cafe. we believe it's one employee and two customers. now we don't know if they were released or if they managed to get away, you know, on their own, but you would presume that police negotiators very sheernsed negotiators are working extremely hard to make sure that the rest of those hostages are released safely. >> yeah, and anna, as you were

speaking, we received information that the local 7 network there, you're seeing some of their video that we're showing, has reported that perhaps two more have gotten out. >> yeah. >> somehow of that coffee shop. >> two women, it seems have managed to get out this time. the first three where men. now it seems that two women were able to get out of that siege situation. now it seems that five hostages have escaped. >> we've been talking to experts for hours now, trying to figure out what this man could want. information from isis perhaps on the internet and is not a skilled terrorist, what have you. but everyone kind of agreeing, john, that the longer that this goes out and no one's hurt, certainly a very, very good time. >> and anna coren still with us, we have the situation where five hostages have managed to get out. clearly a good situation for police. what happens to these five hostages now?

do they get medical treatment? talk to the police? how will the situation work? >> reporter: yeah, clearly the negotiations are working. this is something that they are doing in conjunction with the gunman and that he's allowing these people now to leave the building. but certainly, from what we know, the police now have these hostages. they're looking after them. they would be providing them with counseling, with any, you know, medical assistance required. obviously, these people have been through quite an ordeal since 10:00 this morning. it's now just gone 5:00 here in the afternoon in sydney. but this is something that many people, you know, say it was only a matter of time before someone tried to pull off something like this. there have been raids across australia now for months. terror-related raids. obviously, police refusing to rule out but also confirm that this is righted to islamic

extremism. but certainly, there was that sign that the hostages had to hold up against the window for the media. and anybody happening by to sigsig see, which was written in arabic. clearly he had a message to send. he wanted the world's attention. well, he certainly got it. and as to how this will, you know, be resolved, very highly experienced police negotiators, working to ensure that this is resolved peacefully. >> as you say, hopefully that is what is happening now, as we hear that two more women have come out. and hopefully that is the result of that police negotiating going on. maybe you can speak to, as well, for people who may not know twha australia has been up against in the past few months and how they have taken a hard line against

would-be civilians who joan up with isis militants or even sympathize. >> caller: authorities believe there are at least 100 australian citizens who have gone to join isis and fight in syria and iraq. australia's just passed laws to try to prevent citizens from heading over to iraq, syria, going through turkey to get into these countries. certainly, there are sem sympathizers. these people behead journalists, you know, aide wo workers. they massacre prisoners of war. we've seen atrocities come out of both syria and iraq. so there are people here who

somehow condone that behavior, who adhere to that warped mentality. and that is of great concern to australian authorities, and obviously, when isis announced several months ago that any allied countries involved in the fight against isis that supported and sympathizers to carry out lone wolf attacks. australia was named and targeted. that's why police and intelligence authorities have been working extremely hard to make sure that there are no terror attacks. and they have foiled attacks. they've made numerous raids. they've arrested suspects and are trying to prevent something happening on home soil. so certainly, australia is part of the fight against isis. we have australian troops in that part of the world working with the kurdish forces and the

iraqi military to advise and train them up so that they can fight against, you know, these islamic extremists. we also have strategists that are taking part in the aggressive air campaign in iraq and syria. so australia heavily involved and committed to this war against isis. but as we know, they are a small group. and we should stress it is a small group of people who sympathize with the thought process, with the warped value system of the islamic ex-strategy iex strate extremists. >> we don't know how many hostages are being held, but we do know there's now five less than it was just a few hours ago, because two women and three men have managed to get out over the last hour or so, which i guess is an indication that either those negotiations

ongoing between the police and the guy with the gun inside the coffee shop or maybe they just managed to get out, because there are three exits is my understanding, to this coffee shop. and it seems that, in the video which we saw earlier, these two customers come out one door, and you see him punch the air, obviously thrilled to be out. and then what you see in a moment is a worker, wearing a brown-colored apron with the lindt logo on it manages to get out that back door, a fire escape exit, and he manages to get out. so that's how three got out. and we now have, this is a video of the women. >> this is the latest. this is the first we've seen this. >> so this is one of the workers, a woman in the apron. now we're back to the old stuff now. but clearly people are getting out, which is a sign that maybe this could be coming to an end somehow. and we're waiting now to see that third man escape.

as i said earlier, he comes out of the fire escape. there it is. >> goes out the door. >> and now here come the one of the women who managed to get out in the last few minutes. >> she's running from an opposite area. >> that's the other one. that's the two women workers, wearing that, again, that brown apron, which shows that they are in fact workers at the lindt. >> and you can tell, john, just from the look on her face, what they've been through the past few hours, and the sheer terror they've been under. all we know is gunman. and we were talking earlier about it's very unusual, very difficult to get a gun in australia. and we don't even know if this person has more than that. >> what we've been hearing from authorities is to be very, very careful. there's the third man escaping. is to be very careful about some reports out there. there's been a lot of unconfirmed information about just what that gunman may have, whether he has explosive devices along with some type of shotgun as well. but the police only confirming

that he is in fact armed and that they are is just one gunman inside. there was some earlier talk inside that there were two gunmen. but police have confirmed there is the lone gunman inside with an unknown number of hostages, but now there are five less hostages than when this began. >> and this all began with a woman noticing something very strange with this person walking in. >> australians don't have guns. people don't walk around with guns. it's not a gun culture. it's not something that you would see anybody walking down the street with. so if somebody has a gun, it would raise an alarm, regardless of who it was. >> it did in this case. americans in sydney have been warned about this ongoing situation. the consulate issued this statement a short time ago. u.s. citizens are strongly encouraged to review your personal security plan. remain aware of your surroundings, including local events and monitor local news stations for updates, maintain a

high level of vigilance and take appropriate steps to enhance your personal security. >> which is pretty serious stuff. where ever you may be around the world, whether you're in israel or egypt, americans put out a warning, because americans can be targets. we're also hearing from australia's muslim authority. it says in part the grand mufti condemns this act, unegive kably. the muslim community express their full support and solidarity with the victims and their families and aspire to a peaceful resolve to this ca calamity. >> and hopefully that is what

we're seeing with five hostages being released. >> now they've headed out to an area where there are a large number of lebanese immigrants. it has one of the largest mosques in australia. it is the largest mosque in sydney. it initially reported that police raided the area. but it turns out that the police had just gone out there to meet with islamic leaders. so clear there's a cooperation, some type of working going on between the authorities and the islamic leaders in sydney there to try to work out how to deal with all of this. in so from the start, although there have been scattered reports of other things going on? sydney, this is the one incident. this is a coffee shop. it seems bizarre to say the lindt coffee shop, but it is. >> that's a google image. it's not current. it's a google image of the

coffee shop or chocolate shop. there are been suspicious packages found at the iconic sydney opera house, and that was evacuated and closed down, remained in lockdown because of concerns that there may be some type of explosive dpoe vice there, but the police have said they are dealing with one incident. and it's right there in the heart of the city. the lint chocolate cafe. this is a legal and parliamentary and a financial district. >> you can see the plethora right there, a news station, the u.s. consulate and the commonwealth bank. we also want to point out that just an hour or so ago when people were leaving for the day, there was a news conference where they asked people whose offices faced this coffee shop not to leave yet and to wait for instruction from police on how to exit safely. just for super precautions.

>> we have been telling you about the situation with the local islamic community. we go to a muslim leader in 1 sydney working to combat some extremism. the only thing linking this to an islamic act is that flag put up in the window when this all began which had an islamic phrase on it. so is that enough for you to say that this is somehow linked to islam? >> caller: well, it should not be linked to islam itself, but it should be linked, and it is very clear to islamic extremist, especially the flag, especially used by terrorist organizations like al nusra. and smaller jihadist groups.

we have the police commissioner now, understand that this is a link attack. and if all indications that this is linked to what's happening in the middle east, and the australian involvement in that conflict. >> what do you think about the reaction there in australia for the past few months, knowing that these extremists, out of isis are appealing to people in the west to take action, and the australia government's really been trying to be crackdown on certain people in the muslim community there to prevent this from happening. did you support that leading up to this? >> caller: we not only support this action, we consider this action, the radicalization in

australia started from the beginning of 2012. and i have friends who are attacked and shoot at, businesses where, people, including myself, from the beginning of 2012. and we were asking the authorities, australian authorities to take more aggressive action to crack down. but it is, what has been done in the last few months is any direction, it is less, but it is better than doing nothing. and we think the attack today is linked to these, to these steps taken by the australian authorities, because the australian authorities in the last few months were actively

preventing people from traveling to fight in syria. they're cracking down on donations to extremists and eliciting some of the extremists. which was saw by this extremist organizations as a trick to activities in australia. and i think that the attack today is just for australi aust i mention that this guy was one of the people who -- >> sorry, could you repeat that? did you say you have specific information about the gunman who's taken these people

hostage? >> caller: i don't have the specific information. but from the government authorities. i talk to some journalists in australia. and i am following some, some records and some people from the community. and i was told that the supposition is that this guy is one of the -- the government announced that it's captured more than 70 in the last few months and prevented and prevented some people from going to syria to join in the fight there. >> just to be clear, that's yet to be confirmed. i think we need to avoid, i think we need to be very careful about what we say. if we don't know for certain who

this person may or may not be, it's probably best to stick with what we know, as best we can, that this guy, at this point, we're not entirely sure what he wants, who he is, where he comes from. that's certainly a theory that's out there. makes a lot of sense, and i guess we'll find out as this story develops in the coming hours or days. but what he's telling us, stay with us, jamel. that the australian government was taking a hard stand on anybody wanting to travel to syria, they've been canceling passports. which is a very serious thing. and jamal is saying there's speculation that one of those persons whose passports were canceled is inside that shop. are you concerned that there's

been so much publicity linking the government inside. we've black flag with the islamic phrase on it. that there will be some kind of blow back from the islamic community there in sydney and maybe across australia. are you concerned about, essentially, how the islamic community will be affected by all of this. will there be blow back? will there be increase in discrimination against muslims in australia? >> caller: since the government started to act against extremists, right away, on this matter, terrorist organizations like al qaeda and others, but since the government tries to take action and highlight the horrendous at times

victimizations in the middle east, the media, there was a local backlash against muslims in australia, many attacks were recorded and documented. a muslim, a woman in hijab was asked to leave the country. we expected it and warned many organizations away, their actions would back flip on the community if they continue in supporting the extremists. and now this is the reality we are taking. a local attack on a local people, and anti-muslim

extremists can -- we want to limit migration, we want to get out, whatever, and we expect that -- >> okay. jamel, thank you for being with us. he is a secular muslim there in sydney bringing us up on speculation ongoing there in the muslim community and also talking about the backlash which many australians are feeling because it has been so publicly linked to what is happening in iraq and syria right now with the group isis and everyone is very much on edge about what may come next. >> earlier we had statements from just typical people in the street talking about the situation, and they seemed to be completely caught off guard that

this could be a possibility in their country all the while while tony abbott's been cracking down on them. >> warning that their could happen. >> and at this point, people are getting home and discussing this and re-analyzing the whole situation. although, we still don't now completely who that person is except holding up the sign in arabic. we want to bring you a statement from the company that owns this coffee shop. this would be the lindt chocolate company. they released a statement on facebook. it says we would like to thank everyone for their thoughts and kind support over the current situation at this cafe at martin place. we are deeply concerned over the incident and our thoughts and prayers are with the staff and the customers involved and all their friends and families. the matter is being dealt with by the authorities and are waiting for updates from them. and we continue to get updates since the statement. and police are talking with the

hostage taker, and we do now know three men and two women have come out. >> that's been the biggest development that we've had over the last hour or so, and it has been incredible. i know we've been running these images a lot. but they are incredible images to look at. the three men managed to get out, what, about an hour and 20 minutes ago. we don't know if there was some kind of negotiation between the police and the gunman. this is the two women who got out in the last five minutes or so. both work at the company because they're wearing the aprons. you clearly see the lindt logo. first comes out a customer, them another customer in a white shirt. the police seem almost surprised to see them. >> they peep around that door to

see what's going to happen. maybe there's some indication that a third man is about to emerge. then we see the women. the tactical response officer drag her to safety. then comes the other one. >> they're running out there by themselves in front of all these windows for a few moments there before they encounter police. they have to be terrified. >> and obviously, there's some speculation. we heard from a man who was with the cia, and he knows a lot about this stuff. he says the longer this goes on, the more benign it becomes. by that he means there wasn't some spectacular act of violence from the get go. his feeling is that this could all end, hopefully, without some kind of bloodshed or without anyone being hurt. and we have heard from the new

south wales police saying no one as far as they know inside that coffee shop has been harmed at this point. and they're still not telling us how many people are in the coffee shop. either they don't know or they're not sure or they don't want to say. i suspect they're not entirely sure. but we're told it is certainly no more than 30. that number was way too high. but what we do know now is that because these five workers have managed to get out, there are five less hostages, which indicates maybe this guy, hostage taker isn't so good at taking people hostages. >> hopefully that is the situation. but i certainly feel for the few that are still there and what they're going through. >> but you have to look at the situation as it develops. clearly it's moving in the right direction. there are fewer people being held as hostages as there were an hour ago. as we go into the night, maybe, as the police say, this will

come to a peaceful end, a positive outcome. >> earlier, shortly after this happened, we did hear from the prime minister. we heard from him once. >> before the five hostages managed to get out. >> tony abbott did come out and make a statement. we want to play that for you now. here it is. >> just want to make a short statement on the hostage incident in martin place in sydney. new south wales police are responding. they are being supported by commonwealth agencies. we don't yet know the motivation of the perpetrator. we don't know whether this is politically motivated. although, obviously, there are some indications that it could be. we have to appreciate that even in a society such as ours there are people who would wish to do us harm. that's why we have police and

security organizations of the utmost professionalism that are ready and able to respond to a whole range of situations and contingencies, including the situation that we are now seeing in sydney. the whole point of politically motivated violence is to scare people out of being themselves. australia is a peaceful, open and generous society. nothing should ever change that. and that's why i would urge all australians, today, to go about their business as usual. of course, if anyone does have any suspicions of untoward activity, there is the national security hotline, 1-800-123-400, which i would urge them to call.

i can let you know that the national security committee of the cabinet has been briefed on this incident. i've been in regular contact with premier beard over the last couple of hours. i've been briefed by commissioner skip epy ernie of e new south wales police. this is an unfolding situation. and as the situation unfolds, there will be operational updates provided by the new south wales police. i want to assure people that the ordinary business of government must go on. and it will go on. and that's why treasurer will be releasing the economic outlook as planned. finally, this is a very

disturbing incident. i can understand the concerns and anxieties of the australian people at a time like this. but our thoughts and prayers, must above all, go out to the individuals who are caught up in this, i can think of almost nothing more distressing, more terrifying than to be caught up in such a situation. and our hearts go out to those people. i'm going to leave it to the new south wales police who are in operational charge of this incident to provide those kinds of details. obviously, in a situation like this, all sorts of reports fly around. all sorts of claims are made. so i, i do urge everyone to exercise caution in their reporting, but i will leave all of the operational details to

the new south wales police, who as i understand it, will begin providing operational updates shortly. >> we heard from the police about a little over an hour ago, it's been. so we haven't heard from them since the two other hostages have been released. so maybe we will at this point. >> that was about an hour and a half ago. they're very reluctant to give updates in australia. >> we've learned that, it's very different. >> that was my experience reporting in australia. it was always difficult finding out what was going on. they don't like giving out details. they feel it jeopardizes their operational activities. not like in the united states where they try to get out as much information as possible. the australians don't do that. they wait pretty much for the incident to be over, and then they will answer questions. we are hoping to hear again from the officials in australia and

find out exactly what has been happening and what is likely to happen in the hours ahead. but for right now, if you're just joining us in the united states or all around the world, there is still this breaking situation in sydney. a gunman is still holding a number of hostages, an unknown number of hostages, at the lindt coffee shop. police have made contact with the hostage taker, but they're not saying anything about what he might want. and we have these dramatic images now. five hostages have managed to get out. they're seen running from the coffee shop. sorry, the two women came out in the second case. and before that, three men actually managed to escape as well, about an hour before those two women managed to get out. all of these hostages, all five of them are now being checked out by police. they're being questioned, too, about police, about what may be going on inside that hostage situation. we should note all of this began

almost eight hours ago now. >> it's been some time in the morning now in australia. and this is what we've seen. hands up against the glass there in the coffee shop. and then we saw a flag with an islamic phrase held up to the cafe's window. hostages were forced to snand that window, again, their hands pressed against the glass and hold up that flag, that read in arabic a familiar phrase to islamic militants about the prophet mohammed, that there is no god but their god. >> and mohammed is a messenger of god. it is a very common phrase. but it also appears on the flag of saudi arabia, so it's very common. we will push on now.

we have not heard from the people. we want to play something from some witnesses that reacted to what's going on there that say australians are wandering around earlier with the look of disbelief to what was going on. you can understand that to some extent. here's what some people had to say near the scene. >> kind of a bit weird, like i've never seen anything like this happen. it's probably the first time in australia that this major of a thing has happened. >> it's worried me as a muslim. i fear, because it doesn't represent me. and, you know, if he think that he's a muslim, he's doing the right thing, then he's very bad, you know, because that's not us. not the muslims doing this. so this is why i'm worrying. if he think that he's, what he's

doing is part of islam, he's wrong. and everyone has to stand against him. >> and we did say earlier that the australian prime minister had warned about the possibilities of these type of terrorist attacks. that they'd raise the security level. no australian prime minister has had to deal with a situation like this. the closest was back in 2002 when there was a bombing at bali. many said this was a political move by the government to distract attention from the economic problems. then there were a number of raids in the state of victoria and new south wales. 800 people were detained. only two people were in fact arrested. again, people were dismissive of that. anna coren is at the scene, not far from where the coffee shop

is. given everything that's happened over the last eight hours or so, have people changed their opinion that maybe australia could be a target here? >> reporter: yes, there's a sense of anger, john, that this is actually taking place in the heart of sydney. and really, you know, people, as you say, the bali bombings was the last time australia was deeply affected by terrorist acts. but definitely, as for anything happening here on home soil, it just has never happened. we've got a message from the grand mufti, that he is devastated about the news of the hostage situation. that he and the national council condemn this. and they aspire to a peaceful resolve to this calamity.

now, of course, with this speech under way, it brings to the surface those few, about what that minority of i guess religious zealots represent. so they want to show that the majority of muslims, 99%, you know, the muslims here in australia, you know, only want peace. they want to live within australia, come here to live in this open society, democratic society. but clearly there is this small group that sympathizes with islamic extremists. and potentially, this is what we're seeing in the heart of the city right now. it's just gone half past 5:00 in the afternoon. this has been going on since 10:00 this morning. we still don't know how many hostages remain inside that lindt cafe.

but clearly the hostage negotiators, they're working furiously to try and make sure that this is resolved peacefully and that the remainder of the hostages get out safely. >> you've been there for several hours, and we heard just a few hours ago when it was time for people to start leaving, about 4:00 in australia. there were some people who were going to be asked not to leave their buildings yet, if they were facing that coffee shop. do you know anything more about what has been the commute there? sydney as people have headed home, surrounding this situation there at the coffee shop? >> reporter: yeah, there's been a steady stream of people evacuating the area. clearly they were held up in their buildings, many, many financial, commercial buildings within the vicinity of this cafe. there's also the network australia, which is offices, opposite the cafe. but the evacuation process has

been taking place throughout the day, and certainly, some of those people that i spoke to, they're working for the law society and the reserve bank of australia. they were told to keep away from the win ddows in case the gunma started firing or their were bombings. that is the main concern. the media was pushed back. we had a visual of the cafe, but we've been pushed back, well and truly about several blocks in case anything goes wrong. we know that he's armed. we know that in gunman is armed. other than that, we don't know if he has any other weapons, if he is carrying explosives. it would merely be speculating. but we remain very much on high alert. there was talk of australians being vigilant, of reporting anything suspicious. and that's when we saw sydney

opera house, which is not too far from where we are now, being evacuated because of a suspicious package, a bomb scare. it didn't amount to anything. >> and is there much frustration there that there's so few details coming from the police? we know they have their reasons. we know why. they say operational security. but this day and age when there's lots of reports on social media, a lot of rumors flying around, it seems that from the prime minister on down, not a lot's being done to try and clarify exactly what's been going on? >> reporter: as we know, you know, the australian authorities they are extremely tight-lipped and very reluctant to hand over information, clearly this is unfolding in the united states, we would have been getting a lot more information. but here in australia, it really is contained.

obviously we had the press conference from the prime minister earlier today. and then the new south wales police commissioner and kathryn byrne. all of them speaking but not necessarily revealing too much. we learned through those press conferences that negotiators were in contact with this gunman. and that you know, five hostages were released. but, you know, we, there's another ambulance that just drove past me a short time ago. they are all rolled up here in case something goes wrong. while it's a promising sign they are releasing these hostages, we don't know what could unfold over the coming hours. these things are volatile,

extremely unpredictable. we don't know what the motives are of this gunman. we don't know what sort of statement he's wanting to make to the world. we don't know if he's operating with isis, whether he's a lone wolf, whether he's affiliated with a completely different group. but clearly he wanted the world's attention. he chose this cafe opposite, you know, major television network here in the heart of the city. so he obviously has some message that he wants to get out. he has the world's attention. we are watching, you know, but as the deputy police commissioner said, he thinks it will take hours. it will take hours. they will go on through the night as long as it takes. >> very quickly, can you confirm, do we know for certain that the hostages were in fact released bit gy the gunman or whether they managed to escape without the gunman knowing? do we have that clarity? >> reporter: i'm afraid we

don't. we just don't have that information. all we know is that these five hostages have left the location and are now with police. you know, you guys are watching this in real time, so for you to have a better idea as to whether these people are running from the building, if they look like they're escaping, at this stage, all police have told us is there are five hostages who have left the cafe. >> appreciate that. we'll let you go. >> very hard to, very hard to convey information. >> the thing is that anybody who gets out of the situation where they've been held at gun point is going to run and look terrified when they've been let go or escaped. it's difficult to tell from these images what were the circumstances surrounding their release. >> it seems interesting especially with the women as well, that they came around the corner all of a sudden, whenever the camera person was able to get it. and they didn't look like police were waiting for them or approached them. they ran for a while until they

were grabbed. >> and it was similar to when the three men came out. it seemed that the police were quite surprised that the other three men who managed to get out earlier had actually got out of the building as well. so if you had a guess, and that's all we can do right now. we would say they escaped. we just don't know if they were released and got out of there as fast as think could as anybody would. >> as you mentioned, the australian police very tight-lipped about talking about it. of course social media not. it's been reacting to this hostage situation for hours. people tweeting about it, using the #sydney siege. one person writing hope that sydney siege at martin place will end peacefully. please remember that islam is not a crime, extremism is. they aren't the same. spilling innocent blood is not what allah taught us. and as far as we know, no one

has been hurt inside that coffee shop. >> that was the last word from police. and there's no reason to believe that has changed in the last hour or so. joining us is counter terrorism expert clark jones. he joins us on the line. if you look at what's going on in sydney over the last several hours, this low-impact operation, it seems like that would be what isis would like. >> caller: it seems that there are five hostages released. i think that's a good sign that police are making progress, it's a very delicate operation. but you're right in the sense that if we look at previous acts or plots, previous acts and the act that happened in canada, that these guys wanten to eto

with a bang, although they might not be specifically connected to the islamic state, they do feel connected and they want to show everybody that they support and are doing their bit for the islamic state or the nation of the islamic caliphate. if that's the case, this guy is an islamic state supporter or has support to another jihadist group overseas. time will tell. but it's certainly playing out that he would like to associate himself as a jihadist and a member of a particular group. i can see it playing out that way. >> and clark, what about the fact that this comes shortly after australia has been cracking down on sympathizers with islamic extremism, even denying travel, taking back passports from people who might want to go there or sympathize

or have any kind of physical action in relation to it. has that been, in your opinion, a good thing by this government? >> caller: look, i think it is a good thing to, obviously we need to do all we can to prevent our further people traveling overseas and getting involved in the conflict overseas, but there's been a number of things that have occurred. firstly, australia has committed its fighter jets to the bombing missions in certainly in iraq and potentially in syria and have special forces on the ground overseas. we've tightened counter terrorism legislation to deal with foreign fighters and toughened the legislation here in australia. and the consulate canceling passports is one of the initiatives. yes, it does stop people from going overseas, but it builds a level of frustration here in australia, because there are those who might have wanted to

travel to demonstrate their commitment. and this is possibly one of those events playing out. but there are also those that there is a support base of some 100 people in australia, and 35 fighters return to australia, approximately, and so there's a potential for trouble here in australia. and there's also the government, the current government's getting across to some may appear to be potentially not favorable to a particular, to ethnic minorities. so there are a number of things that are at play here, that are push and pull factors and trigger events that go on. but i don't think there's been anything in particular, a particular event that would have signaled this to take place. >> you mentioned the five hostages making it out and that that is a good sign. one of the men who managed to

get out is currently being treated at st. vincent's hospital which is a private hospital. what has been the procedure. there are these five people who have spent all these hours with the gunman. what will be debriefing process? how reliable will these people be? how traumatized will they be? >> caller: the first thing will be their physical and mental health will be assessed. because obviously, it's very traumatic. we don't know the extent of the injuries of the man in the hospital. that could have been stress related. it's a particularly terrible situation to be involved in. and if they are to talk it would certainly be police interested in getting as much detail as

possible of the perpetrator and also the, and what the layout inside and that's all about, just, you know, we hope it doesn't get to a lethal end or a, you know, hard to know. but everything that's going on now is trying to develop a peaceful resolution to this. but the police also need to be ready in case, if hostages are placed under threat and they need to end quickly that they're in a position to do so. >> what's more likely, that these five hostages managed to escape or that they were released by the gunman? >> caller: it's really hard to say. they could have gone out the back door. it looks like an escape. if it was an escape of five, it, i hate to speculate, but -- >> i know.

>> caller: there is only one gunman. it's probably more likely that they were released rather than escaped. >> they have come out after they said they have settlement negotiations with the gunman. the timing would make sense, right? >> and that first woman running looked like she had her purse over her shoulder, like she knew she was moving. >> that's a good point. you noticed that. i never saw it. >> caller: it definitely looks like they've been released. >> we know it's very hard to figure out the situation. all we know is people have been coming out, no one has been hurt that we know of. thank you for gjoining us, clar jones. we want to bring in sky news. and laura, there are so many more questions than answers right now. the big question we've been asking is how did these five get out. do you have any information on

that? >> well, in just news to hand, we know that the gunman inside this lindt cafe has contacted try media organizations. he contacted a radio station earlier in the day, then channel nine, and then in the last 20 minutes or so he's contacted another tv station, channel 10. they have just spoken to two of the hostages inside the cafe. the gunman has two demands. he wants an isil flag in exchange for one hostage and a cowl to t call to the prime minister. the gunman is calling himself the brother and claims there are two bombs in the cafe and two elsewhere. this is now getting into the eighth hour of this siege right

in the heart of the cbd. it's difficult to see what the motivation of this particular gunman is. but the first clarification there, that this gunman, calling himself "the brother", now wants an isil delivered to him, and he will release one more hostage. >> let's back up here. we had these reports earlier in the day, that the gunman had spoken to a shock jock, very right wing and conservative radio announcer. we did not put that on air, because there was some confusion whether it was actually the gunman and that he had made this similar demand, that he wanted to talk to tony abbott, live on the radio. and that got pushed to one side. so have we now got it confirmed that that conversation with the radio it was in fact legitimate? as to the conversations at channel 9 and channel 10?

>> well, channel 9 and channel 10 were speaking with hostages, i think with the contact at the radio station, i think it was also a hostage as well. at this stage, it's very difficult to verify any of that. and, as you have been discussing on cnn about whether these hostages, five now, three men and two women, the women clearly looking distressed, they were released or escaped. i can tell you that police sources have told sky news that it is an escape. they have not been released freely by this man calling himself the brother. now, in the next 20 minutes or so, we will be hearing again from the prime minister. he's held a second national security meeting cabinet. he will be updating the media and the australian people, and of course we'll hear from the new south wales police in just over a half hour as well.

>> it's very interesting the information that you bring us. and the fact that this hostage taker has been speaking with people beyond the police. >> police negotiators. >> and that we'll hear from the prime minister again. and just the question about these bombs, and that is certainly something that is not confirmed. because he has been speaking with the media, laura, is there any more information about who this person is? >> no, there's not. we don't have a name. we don't know his background, we've even spoken to some islamic leaders that sky news is quite close to. and they don't know who this man might be, if in fact he is operating alone. but that development that he is requesting an isil flag in exchange for the release of one hostage, that might indicate otherwise, what his motivations

are. now, in terms of the new reports coming through that there are explosives in the cafe and two more around the cbd, well, we did hear these reports very early on, early in the morning, just a couple of hours into that siege. now of course police can't confirm these to us at the moment. but you have to take into account that they've set up quite a 200-meter exclusion zone around this lindt cafe. now in the vicinity of this cafe is not only channel 7 news, which is a major tv broadcaster here in australia, but we're atalking about the u.s. consulate, the reserve bank, major branches of the common woelt bank and also i have close by is the new south wales parliament. so this has had maximum impact. the media of the world, the eyes of the world are n