minutes. so when that statement comes, we'll, of course bring it to you. >> and of course all of this ongoing in sydney as it comes up on 6:00 local time. this siege going on now for more than eight hours. i'm john vause at the cnn center in atlanta. >> and i'm natalie allen. we have been with you for several hours, and we will push on as this situation in australia continues. it is breaking news of a siege there in a coffee shop that has been ongoing. a gunman holding people hostage at the lindt coffee shop in downtown sydney. sky news has just informed us that the gunman is calling himself "the brother", and has contacted a radio station and two tv stations via hostages

with demands, a conversation with the prime minister and an isil flag. >> we do know five people have managed to get out. three men were seen running out two hours ago. two of them were customers. the man in the blue jacket, the man in the white zirs and a few moments later there was a man wearing an apron who appeared to be a worker. >> coming out of a different door. >> and it appears he was a worker at the lindt coffee shop. he's wearing that apron. >> and we've been questioning our experts. >> was this an escape or were they released. and according to our sky news reporter, the police saying this was a report, just there. >> then, after this, two women ran out, about 45 minutes later. this is a different camera angle, coming from a different way. there goes one. and police hustled her away. a then right after her another

suddenly emerges. police tell us they have been in touch with the hostage taker, though they will not say who he is or what his motives are. let's listen. >> our number one aim is to resolve this incident peacefully. we have numerous resources from the new south wales police force on-site, in that effort to make sure that everybody who is in this location remains unharmed. we do not have any information that suggests that anybody is harmed at this stage. and a peaceful resolution will be what we are working towards. >> that was the new south wales deputy police commissioner there, a little over two hours ago. well, when the standoff began more nan eight hours ago, a flag with an islamic phrase was held up to the cafe's window. also as can you see, hostages were norsed to stand in that window with their hands on the glass. since then, heavily armed police

have taken positions around the coffee shop anchor dod cordonede area. our reporter on the scene has reported this is a ghost town in this area. otherwise, very, very busy area. >> three blocks in every direction of this coffee shop. there have been evacuations linked to suspicious packages found around the city. air traffic has been re-routed around sydney. >> this is a very disturbing incident. i can understand the concerns and anxieties of the australian people at a time like this. but our thoughts and blaprayers must, above all, go out to these individuals who are caught up in this. i can think of almost nothing more distressing, more

terrifying than to be caught up in such a situation. our hearts go out to those people. >> well, tony abbott is part of this story, since we just learned that the hostage taker, "the brother", as he wants to be called, wants to talk with the prime minister. >> he wants a conversation with the prime minister and he also wants an isil flag. he had displayed that other flag which had an islamic phrase on it. many people thought it was an isis flag. it was the white writing on a black background. but now from our affiliate reporter in sky news, he is demanding an isil flag. >> it will be interesting to know how the police negotiators are dealing with this person and his demands. we want to go now to anna coren.

she's been live there and on the streets of sydney for us, talking about what people are saying, the surprise from typical australians, and what she is learning. it's been very hard to get information. but anna joins us now. anna? >> reporter: well, the siege has been going on now for more than eight hours, and it doesn't look like it's going to be finishing anytime soon. as we said, five hostages have been released. and it's a promising sign that police negotiators are in touch with this gunman and making his way to release those hostages. we don't know. we can't confirm that that is the result of those negotiations. but certainly, from the people within the area, people who have evacuated from nearby buildings, there really is a sense of fear, that this is taking place, this

is something australia has not been exposed to yet. australia very much involved in the war against isis in iraq and syria, but not here. there have been no attacks on home soil, threats most definitely, but no attacks. obviously raids over the past couple months and numerous arrests made, but, as for anything event waiting or coming to fruition, law enforcement authorities keeping on top of that. but this gunman walking into the lindt cafe this morning, really catching people off guard. we don't know if he had guns or other weapons, if he had bombs. but he clearly sought out his target. he is opposite 7 network australia. tv cameras able to film the

cafe, film what's taking place. so obviously that building is being evacuated or everything nearby as is the u.s. consulate. there are dozens of buildings within that vicinity, and the police have gone and blocked off much of the cbd around the cafe, around martin place, not allowing anybody in. there's heavy, heavy police presence. we've seen snipers. heavily armed as well as other police with flak jackets. there is that contingency of law enforcement. they are not your regular police officers but the more experienced and highly trained law enforcement officials who are on the scene as well, monitoring what is taking place inside that cafe. >> i want to talk to you about the fact that this was hour the ago that this thirfirst broke o

there were images of the hostages inside the coffee shop, and there's been nothing since. is that because think cordoned off the area? is that because it's an ongoing dangerous situation? how come we haven't seen anything else as far as video from, through that first window that we saw earlier? >> reporter: yeah, it's safe to sayna all media has been evacuated from the media. so that live that you've been getting through channel 7, that has now stopped. they've probably been told they have to leave the building. they're not allowed to leave any crews there because of the potential threat. we were within 100 meters of lindt cafe a few hours ago. police then came and moved us on. they don't want to have visuals of the cafe, they say, security reasons. obviously, if the gunman starts

to spray bullets or if there is an explosion, they want people away. they're greetitreating it very, seriously. we spoke with a woman earlier, and she said they have contact with him, they are in touch with him. but they want this resolved peacefully. at this statement, it's gone 6:00 here. it could very well go into the night. but they do want this to resolve peacefully. >> we've just received some new information. i think we have a comment from someone who saw the gunman. >> this is a witness. outside the cafe actually saw the gunman. and he describes exactly what, he said it was, i believe it was a man who was actually didn't realize that there were hostages as first. let's listen to what the person had to say. >> when i first ran into the

building, he was trying to get someone's attention, trying to get in the doors. and on the third run, i was looking in there, wondering what her problem was, why she didn't go somewhere else to get her coffee. and then obviously the gunman or alleged yoefder held a bag out, and she said gun, gun, gun. in a blue bag. i saw the gunman. i was quite tall. probably late 40s. long white sleeved shirt on with a vest. i was very calm and pacing, looking out. and several customers were sitting down at their tables, still drinking. i'm not sure how alert they were as to what was going to go on. but they were locked in.

>> clearly that person did not want to be identified, which is why he was shot that way, but giving us very interesting details about this woman who was turned away, and telling us just what the gunman looked like. his age and that kind of thing. >> earlier there had been a report that he was in his 40s, and some people were surprised that that seemed a little -- >> old. >> old, for whatever reason. >> these people who carry out these kind of things are younger, more easily influenced, are looking for some kind of direction in their lives. we often hear how it's not just religion but poverty, unemployment, lack of opportunity which drives people to these extremist groups. as we've heard from sky news our affiliate in sydney, that the government is debating an isil flag. isil is another term for isis. isil is often used by

governments. islamic state. that's all it is. it just depends on who you are, what you use. that link is very, very close to isis. at least from the government's point of view. he is aspirational. he wants to be a representative of this group, which is why he wants this flag. why he didn't have one in the first place i guess is another question. >> some plan in reaching out to the media. now three member the of the media so far that's been reported. well, this, of course, we've always been told about the lone wolf situation, or, as you say, anyone who just needs someone to pay attention to them for whatever deranged reason. but australia's grand mufti released a statement. we want to read it in part. and we quote, the grand mufti and the australia national

imam's council condemn this criminal act and unequivocally denounce. and we aspire to a peaceful resolve to this calamity. >> let's go to the president of the lebanese muslim associate in sydney on the line with more details about this. so samir, explain to us, there were occasions where police raided an area southwest of sydney. an area where many ex-pats from lebanon live. that was not the case. tell us exactly what had happened the last couple hours. >> caller: well, i don't know where you got this report. in fact, there's been reports of police on their official

website. there have been a lot of these type of reports and trying to link it to what's happening in the cafe, and police have come out and said that none of those events in any kind of shape or form related to what is currently taking place in the cafe. so you've got a car driving down, a police vehicle driving down the street, people getting a little frustrated or calling up and being concerned maybe that this is sort of related. so it's more fear mongering than anything else to be quite frank with you. >> my understanding from one of the reports i read said that police actually met with leaders from the islamic community. that's not the case? >> caller: that's not the case. i've been in direct discussion with the premier of the state just about ten minutes ago. we had another conference call to try to give us more briefs. there have been these briefs been giving to the community

leaders every few hours to give us a bit more of an insight and give us a little bit more information about what is currently taking place. >> and what can you share with us about those conversations? what are they telling you? >> caller: they're telling us in terms of information, which is not much. they currently don't know the identity of this individual. they don't know what the motive is. they're treating it as a criminal hostage situation. they're not sure whether he's linked to any particular group. and hopefully that information will unfold. there are five hostages that have left the cafe so far. so we don't know whether they have been released or whether they've escaped. taken from the point of view from what you've reported that he's seeking an isil flag, so he comes across as someone who's not really well prepared if he intended to cause that type of harm. as community leaders, we've offered our help and assistance in any shape or form if they can

identify who this individual is so we can be involved in a negotiation and a dialog with this individual. >> i was going to ask you about that samir, because i wondered if they asked you about that, are you disappointed in any way that they haven't reached out to the community to incorporate you somehow, seeing this to a peaceful end? >> caller: well, unless they have facts as to which group he belongs to it will be hard to engage. he carried a black flag with some type of arabic writing on it. it's not the isis flag. we don't know who this individual is. then we can target this eideal. the police and the government have been in close contact with community leaders, as i highlighted. we've also made contact with different departments within the police offering our help and

assistance when they see or feel the need. we have the protocol and the safety and security of these hostages at the utmost importance. this is at the point where we as a community coming together as australians. our first and foremost priority is the safety of these hostages. >> samir, when this situation first started unfolding and there was this confusion about whether or not it was a shois flag or a flag with an islamic phrase on it. and everybody's making this connection that this is this lone wolf terrorist attack that many in australian security had been warning about, was that your reaction? or did you think this was something else? >> caller: i take everything seriously when someone's life is at stake. it doesn't bother me whether this is a lone operator or connected to a group or not. i'm someone who needs to be well-informed about the facts. and this is where we leave it to the authorities. once the facts become available

then we can deal with the situation. the current situation which is of crucial importance to us is the safety of the hostages and the families. this is our main concern. the fact that we saw a black flag with arabic writing on it made us more concerned, obviously. you can just imagine where we wanted to try to deliver everything we can to help defuse the situation. it's important what group he belongs to. what we want to do is defuse that. once more information comes available we are more briefed and more informed and we can deal with this issue accordingly. >> we have new images of what appear to be the gunman inside the cafe. 's wearing a hid band, a vest and a white shirt. a backpack as well. you said you're trying to defuse the situation regarding who this guy is and what his motivation might be.

exactly how do you do that? >> caller: well, once the police officers, if they get aligned to talk to this guy and identify who he is, and then if we reach out to the community organizations to identify his family members. maybe he's got someone that he's a trusted individual from an ethnic group or a family perspective, maybe we can help the police identify the individual and bring them into the negotiations, try to defuse it. >> from the video right there, it's almost hard to believe that they can't figure out who that person is. >> caller: because they haven't been able to speak to the individual. so you tell me -- >> well, they did say the negotiate eors have been in tou with him, but they haven't been able to work out who he is. >> caller: that's something you need to work out with the negotiators. >> do you think they're talking through hostages to the gunman?

>> caller: no, i don't think so. from what we know so far, there's been absolutely no conversation with the gunman. >> we did hear from sky news that the negotiators have made contact with him. you don't have any more information about that, obviously. >> caller: no, i don't. >> well, we thank you for your time and letting us know that community members have been briefed every so often on this case. that's good to hear. >> it must be frustrating. you can imagine that they're standing by, they want to help, they want to get involved and find out who this person is. when they do find out who he is, maybe they can reach out to him and work to defuse the situation. all we know at this point is what we've heard from sky news australia is that that guy there, right there in the vest with the white shirt is calling himself "the brother." he has made two demands. one is to have a conversation on

the radio with prime minister tony abbott. it's unlikely that will ever happen. but you nene never know. the other demand is that he wants an isil or isis flag in exchange for one hostage. he apparently has said there are two bomb the inside that cafe and two bombs inside the sydney cbd. >> and this security camera that picked this up, he's adamant whatever he's saying and someone is walking up to him with their hands up. >> hands up. >> right that's right. this is the latest since we've been here for many hours now. but we have seen people, of course, run out. and we have some compelling pictures of one of the two women who ran from that cafe toward police, not long ago, wearing lindt aprons. three men ran out before them. one of the men that ran out also

had an lindt apron. that's three staff member the working in this coffee shop. i believe the woman who came out before her was carrying her purse. this woman looks like she just got out with her apron and out. and sky news reporter we talked with, believing information she has this was an escape. it wasn't a part of negotiations. and john and i's perspective. it did seem as if the police weren't expecting >> they did seem to be taken a little bit by surprise. >> earlier, the deputy director of the new south wales police took questions at a news conference. that's when we learned that police have maid cde contact wi the gunman. >> i cannot confirm numbers. about how many people might

remain or have left. it is really important, i think, for us all to take on board that as this situation is continuing, and as it is unfolding, and as it is that we actually have people who are in this premises at the moment, that we manage it through patience through our negotiators, and we give them the time at the moment that they need to work through this so that they can resolve it. so those operational details will be forthcoming, but it's not a good point in time to speculate. >> can you talk about negotiating? does that mean the police have made contact with the gunman? >> police negotiators have had contact, and they phone have contact. and we will work through this as, as we do with our negotiators. it might take a bit of time, but we want to resolve this peacefully. and i assure you, if it takes a bit of time, we will take the time.

>> who is the gunman and what does he want. i know you can't give specifics. but basics, who is i and what does he want? >> at this stage, those might vagss are not known, and it would not be good to special late, but we have set up our protocols. so the moment we have activated our investigators and our intelligence officers. so we now have numerous police who are working on establishing who this person is and what those motives might be. all i can say is that they are now out of the building, and they are now with police. >> do the police have a rough idea about how many hostages were in the, how many had initially before the three left? >> look, i know there has been some speculation about numbers, but it really is not really helpful at the moment to speculate. we clearly, we clearly are

dealing with a situation that is unfolding, and it's happening as we speak. and the most important thing is the safety of those hostages. so i wouldn't want to do anything that might impact on their safety. >> some of the speculation has been up to 30, 40 hostages. that seems high with some of the other estimates. >> that sort of a number does not equate with what we be assuming. we don't know. we don't know for a clear fact, but it is not as high as 30. >> those that have escaped, candidate police have contact with them? >> we are with those people now. the first thing we are doing is making sure they are okay. we will then establish who they are. and we will continue to work with them. >> there was some suggestion coming from inside that some hostages were, had fallen ill, that they were not okay. >> the information that i had is that nobody has been harmed or injured at the moment. we have been working through our negotiations to try to make sure

that the people inside are cared for, that they have what they need to, so that they don't become ill or injured. so we will continue to do that. i think that from the information that i had, that is not related to the incident that we are dealing with. as you know, we have certain protocols in the city. and particular infrastructure and building have their own protocols. that might have been a matter for them, but we are not saying that that is connected with this. we have our protocols in place. pioneer has been activated. >> are you treating this as a terror -- could you explain a little bit more about what pioneer is? >> this really is about setting up command-and-control, so that we make sure that we have a clear police commander in charge, that we have an incident

management team is he sce menme people are able to identify the resources needed. in terms of a policing response, this is a reasonably familiar policing response. [ inaudible question ] >> any other links? there have been several reports of -- >> at the moment the martin place incident is what we are dealing with. there have been other reports, as you would expect, because we do urge people to be vigilant, and we do urge people to contact us if they see anything suspicious, whether that be a suspicious package or vehicle, and people are doing that, which is what we want. so we want people to continue that. and we will respond. but at the moment, the situation that we are dealing with is in martin place. >> can you confirm that there are one or two hostage takers.

>> i can't confirm those numbers. >> there are reports that ieds might be involved, that he may have an explosive buielt. >> all this will be forthcoming once we get the information. >> i believe the police commissioner made the comment in that regard. can you confirm that is the case? >> i can't confirm what the police commissioner has said. >> no, whether that is the case that there is an ied. >> i can't speculate on what may or may not be, and that would be unhelpful at the moment. at the moment we know that the person we are dealing with is armed. we are aware of that. and what we would do in terms of their situations is make sure that we consider any, any possibility and so that we are able to respond accordingly.

>> can you confirm if this is a terror incident? >> we still don't know what the motivation might be. but in terms of our protocols as i've said, we've set up our command-and-control protocols [ multiple questions ] >> we've had three hostages released unharmed. how positive is that for this afternoon? >> i've said, as long as nobody gets hurt, we want though resolve this peacefully. and that is what we are working towards. and the negotiators are extremely experienced and skilled at what we are doing with the negotiation and if it goes on for a few more hours, it will go on for a few more hours. but, as i say, the priority is the safety of those people as well as the safety of everybody in new south wales. >> thanks very much.

we'd like to welcome you back to our continuing coverage of the situation in sydney. a gunman continues to hold hostages at the lindt coffee shop. the hostage taker seen here has identified himself as "the brother." he has reportedly contacted three media organizations, using the hostages to speak with the outlets. he is demanding an isis flag and also a fon call with australia's prime minister. take a look at this video. five hostages that managed to get out. three men were seen running out first. all this happened about three hours ago. two customers it seems, followed shortly by a man who worked at this coffee shop. he is wearing an apron which read "lindt" on it. then two women ran out about 45 minutes later. all five hostages reportedly escaped from the cafe. they were not released.

still not clear how many hostages remain inside that coffee shop. the situation began almost nine hours ago now. a flag with an islamic phrase was held up to the cafe's window. hostages were forced to stand in that window with their hands pressed against the pane of glass. anna coren joins us not far from the coffee shop. bring us up to date. we are now in the situation where there are five less hostages being held. we have more details about who may be holidaying them and what he wants. >> reporter: yeah. that's right. we're learning certainly more details from police about what in fact this hostage taker wants. as you say, he wants a phone call with the prime minister tony abbott and also an isis flag. but this is all unfolding about a block from where we are standing. as you can see, the ambulances

parked up here on mcquarry street, where this cafe is, the lindt cafe. it's about a block, 100, 200 meters as the crow flies, but heavy police presence. we've also seen sniper police, many of them taking position, watching and waiting. as we heard from the deputy police commissioner, catrkathry burn, if this goes on longer so be it. we know there are still hostages inside with that gunman who is armed. we don't know if he has other explosives or bombs, but certainly, all the people working in the buildings around lindt cafe have been evacuated. obviously, the 7 network, australia, that have opposite the cafe. the reserve bank of australia,

the law society, very close by are the law courts. as well as the u.s. consulate. so all these people, you know, hundreds of people have been evacuated from the heart of martin place, in the cbd here in sydney as this siege unfolds. >> a short time ago, over the last hour or so when you got there, you were much closer to the action. so why are they continuing to expand this exclusion area? >> reporter: yeah. that's right. where we were several hours ago, we could actually see the cafe. we had a visual on it. since then, police have moved us. they are concerned. you know, like i said, they don't know what this gunman has or if he will start shooting. so they want everybody out of harm's way. they want to focus purely on this gunman. very senior negotiators are currently speaking to him.

we don't know if the release of those five hostages is a result of those conversation, a result of the contact that these negotiators now have with this gunman. but certainly, there is a dialog. there is a conversation taking place. we know for a fact that this gunman chose that position because of its location. he wanted attention. he got it. he was in the heart of the city. he was opposite a major tv station. he clearly wanted the world watching what was taking place. now we know that the part of his demands are to speak to the prime minister of australia and to get an isis flag. other than that, we don't know his motivations, and we don't know, you know, who in fact this man is. >> okay. we appreciate that. we want to go to ray hadley now. he is the number one rating radio host in sydney. i think in australia as well.

you're with 2 gb. i understand you had a conversation with the gunman via hostages earlier today? >> caller: good day. we kept going because we made contact with the hostages on my program. obviously, i didn't want to put them to air. so i took their calls off air and at the same time could hear the hostage taker giving the young man as he spoke to me, a 23-year-old, instructions on what he wanted to do. what's revealed by your reporter, he wanted the isis flag, a conversation with the prime minister. i spoke with our police chief in new south wales and spoke to him, spoke with the premier, which is a bit like your governor, and they told me off air that it would be best if we didn't report those matters. i kwept in contact with the young man. he gave me his mobile.

whee about four conversation, and i felt troubled. i asked the police to supply me with a negotiator. i didn't feel equipped to negotiate with him. the negotiator arrived here, and i went off air about 20 minutes ago. and the negotiators are still dealing with him. as you've been told, five people have been escaped. they weren't released. one of them a worker. and then two young ladies who were also workers, escaped as well. and police continue their negotiations. they're dealing with a lunatic. they're dealing with a person who's making outrageous claims. he wants the government to acknowledge that this is a terrorist operation, that he's doing this on behalf of isis or isil. and the government at this particular stage are treating a terrorist as you would treat any terrorist in any part of the world. they're doing their best to secure the safety of the hostages without meeting too

many of his demands. >> explain how this process works. you got this phone call, this 23-year-old man, a hostage being held inside the cafe. and he relayed what the guy with the gun was saying and then he told you and you'd respond and he'd say it to the gunman? is that how it went down? >> i could hear the gunman. first of all, we were skeptical. you get a phone call on your line saying i'm a hostage. i wouldn't talk to him on air, because i was fearful that i was being duped or that i might be at risk after i came off air. and i spoke to the man and ringed him back to confirm he was a hostage. i had spoken to police, they had a list of some of the hostages. his name was given to me by the young man. i could hear the hostage taker issue the instructions about wanting to talk to the prime minister, calling me a scumbag,

calling the media generally scumbags for incorrectly reporting isil as being a group of people who are murderous bastards who have no regard for human life. i didn't report what i'd been told. i said i have a phone call from a hostage and i contacted police, which i did do. he phoned back again and left his number. so i went to a newsbreak and rang him again. at the end of three or four conversations when these demands were still being made, that he wanted, the hostage taker wanted to talk to the prime minister, mr. abbott, i then said to the police we need someone over with a bit of expertise. so a negotiator came over and decided to take the calls. since then he's had conversations with a number of other hostages over the course of the last two or three hours. >> can you describe what i sounded like? was he unhinged?

was he yelling? >> what kind of accent he had? >> caller: he had a middle eastern accent with an australi australian tinge. we have been a country like your country, very welcoming of people from that part of the world. we have a long tradition of lebanese christians coming to sfr australia. and more recently, people of the muslim faith. the vast majority are peaceful, hard-working people who want to make a life for themselves. but we have these radicals, lunatics who have between 12 and 25 people holding hostage. the police know, but they won't release the number. originally there were somewhere between 15 and 30. so you take a guess. it's either ten people in there or 25. we don't know. >> now you say he threatened to

dispose of hostages. i'm making the assumption he threatened to kill them. >> caller: that's what he was saying. police negotiators say now that we're in the ninth hour and no one's been hurt or injured this is someone they can deal with, if you nknow what i mean. >> hang on. we're getting a live news conference. >> -- might assist, and, again, i put out that plea and that message, if anybody does have information, please let us know. it's really important that you pass it on, because even a small snippet of information might be vital. >> -- inside, facebook and social media some of the demands that the gunman's making. i know you need to keep some things under wrap, but it's out there for everybody to see.

>> we were monitoring what's happening on facebook and twitter. and that is forming a part of our tactical response and how to handle this. yes, that is out there, and we are aware of that. >> what do you tell the negotiators? >> that's not what i can talk about, what he might be telling negotiators, but the contact that we have will be ongoing, and it will be based on our best assessment about how to get those people out safely, which is what does count most. >> some are talking about that there are -- >> -- to police? or is he trying to use the media to make those demands? >> i think that there's probably a number of mediums that are being used at the moment, but we all have to be very careful not to completely overreact at this time. because it is still ongoing, but it is important to reiterate, that we are aware of that. we are monitoring it. and we are using that as a part

of our strategy. >> why can't you say how many are still inside? >> it's not something that i can confirm at the moment. and it's not technically useful to actually confirm potential numbers. for people who we are, we might be dealing with who may have concerns that a friend or relative or a loved one might be in that building. we have set up, clearly, our, our public information inquiry number. >> the people who have been released, they have been able to tell you how many are inside? >> 30 is an imperative -- >> why is that so sensitive? >> because at this point, everything has to be about the safety of the people in the location. so it's important that we don't confirm it at this point. >> can we talk, would you be able to explain a little bit

about task force pioneer? >> pioneer is really just a term, a standing arrangement. it's a term that relates to our command-and-control arrangement. so when we do have a major incident, such as this, we set up our police operation center so we have a commander in place, and we have a forward command, and we have other management protocols so that we are ensuring that we have the best police response. so that includes investigators. that includes intelligence. that includes logistics. it includes all resources. and it also includes long-term planning. so that is basically a standing arrangement in terms of a response that we put in place to make sure that we have the best control and command arrangement under way. >> can you -- [ multiple questions at once ] >> again, i don't want to

speculate, but we are in contact, and we will continue, and we will continue and the aim is peaceful resolution. >> -- that there are bombs, that this man has threatened that there are bombs across other places in sydney. can the public be and feel safe with that threat? >> we have a large police response in place as a part of this operation. we have our police out. they're very visible. we have our police transport command as well as reminding the public to be vigilant and to be aware. our police are also vigilant and aware and are making sure that if there are any suspicious packages or suspicious vehicles, but i think it is important for me to reiterate that we have got this situation contained to one area at the moment. we are responding to other

pieces of information, other calls, et cetera, and we will continue to. but our response is in relation to the incident at martin place. [ questioning simultaneously ] >> can you tell us more about the gunman? >> we have to wrap it up. >> thank you. thank you. >> thank you. >> we've been listening to another briefing there by the new south wales deputy police commissioner. and, again, not a lot of information coming out. she is saying there is an operation under way. we know that. we have been watching it for some time. they are limited in how much they are willing to reveal to the public at this point, which is fair enough i guess. it is frustrating for a lot of people. there are reports out there that catherine burn discussed it that there are some hostages inside that cafe who have been posting on facebook and twitter.

>> really bizarre. >> the police don't feel comfortable addressing those reports. >> if they rt stastarted to, wh would they stop? >> the main message we're getting from these briefings, and we had it again there, the police are stressing that the situation is contained to just one area. that one area just happens to be the very center of the sydney cbd. that would be if there was a hostage situation in times square and that area was closed down. you can imagine how that would throw the city into disarray. >> the banks and u.s. consulate is there as well. and that is the person causing all of this described by ray hadley, the number one radio guy, as a lunatic. >> that's i have commvery commoo

use that type of language. in the past ray has been very outspoken about the influence of radical islam and the effect is having across australia. he's been very vocal about it. so that may explain why he was the first call before reaching out to other media outlets like channel 9 and 10. the gunman has been making two demands. the first is that he wants an isis flag, which raises the question, if he is affiliated with isis, why didn't he have an isis flag in the first place. the second demand is that he wishes to speak via phone with tony abbott. there was some discussion that he wanted to do that live on the air as well.

>> that would be unlikely that that would happen. >> and ray hadley also telling us that he was speaking to the gunman by the 23-year-old hostage who was inside that cafe, and he could hear the gunman in the background. he spoke with a middle eastern ak sechbt with an australian tinge. he didn't sound very rational. he did threaten as ray described it, to dispose of hostages, which is an indication that he would be inclined to kill some hostages, but there's no indication that anybody inside that cafe has been hurt. >> i was wanting to ask him, too bad that we did have to go away from him to take the news conference, which we didn't learn very much from, but what was the demeanor of that young hostage that was being kind of the filter -- >> the go between. >> -- for this gunman. >> we've been talking about whether these three men who got out first, followed by the two

women, whether they were part of this negotiation that was going on. we do know part of the developments is that the negotiators have made contact with the government. the police aren't confirming it, but what we've heard from a number of reports as well as ray l hadley, that these five people managed to escape. >> he had what, three conversations with this poor hostage before the police got involved. >> yes. he kept calling his cell phone, and the guy kept answering. let's bring in justin hastings. he's a terrorist expert currently in hawaii. we have a situation that we've got this guy taking hostages, but he doesn't have the right flag. he's allowing hostages inside there to receive cell phone calls, on their mobile calls. he's let five people actually manage to escape, if that is in

fact what has happened. he's allowing people to post on facebook as well as twitter. is this adding up to a profile of a guy who isn't really in control of what's going on? >> caller: it doesn't seem very well planned. it depends on what his actual goal is, if it's to get attention for his cause then it's suck sided beyond his wildest dreams. if it's something else, he's got a problem. he didn't control the exit. he didn't control information in and out of the building. and he does sort of sound crazy to people who overhear him. it may be something drove him to do this without a lot of planning, without a lot of forethought. >> that's what you said earlier when you joined us, the whole thing by isis, if this is indeed related to that, which it does appear, is that they reach out to all kinds of people in the west and other countries to try to mobilize them and these

aren't people that, in particular, have any experience, thankfully, in dangerous situations or taking hostages and causing harm. so that's some good news, but it seems like this person didn't really have or hasn't had a plan. >> caller: right, so isis reaches out. they may or may not have been in contact with him. but in some sense it doesn't matter. isis wants people to go and attack outside their home base. people do it. they may or may not be successful in killing anyone, but they certainly attract a lot of attention for the cause and they certainly are able to cause a lot of disruption even if they have no training at all. so from this point of view, isis would say, if in fact he's doing this on behalf of isis or sympathetic to isis, this a win for us even if we didn't order it ourselves. >> we've got five people who got

out, a guy who doesn't have a particularly good plan. this has been going on for mean ho -- nine hours. no one has been harmed. this seems to be the indication, as far as you can tell, coming to a benign end? >> caller: well, i don't know. this could go either way at this point, right? they're trying to wait him out, he may get tired of waiting. he may start to lose more control and lash out. or he may just sort of give up. it's difficult to say, right? so, you know, things are delicate. it depends on how the police and the gunman handle things. but the fact that hostages have escaped shows that his plan isn't working to the extent he wants it to. it doesn't mean it's going to be a benign end, but we hope it will be. >> now that he has asked to speak with the prime minister and requested a flag, according to reports, what typically would be the police response to

something like that? a negotiator, are they trying to drag this out? do they turn him down cold? how does the process work? >> caller: well, you know, the police could try to delay, to see if that would sort of help the situation. they could sort of, the largely unobjectionable. see if that will calm him down or if that will sort of, you can trade some hostages for the flag for example. we can see what's going on and then sort of come back out again. but, again, it's all subject to negotiation. they may not want to have it happen in delay. >> natalie and i were quite surprised when we heard these reports that the gunman is a man in his 40s. that seemed a little old for us, for, you know, the typical profile of the young, disaffected, you know, muslim who, you know, takes up the

cause on behalf of one of these jihadi groups. >> caller: right. it's certainly outside the standard demographic in terms of age, but the full range of sort of terrorists are much younger and much older than, you know, might say the 18 to 35-year-old. there were some australians who were found to be much younger than 18. you see people older helping out. we don't want to derive too much from the fact that he's in his 40s. >> i want to ask you this last question. what has struck you as watching this unfold for the last several hours as the most unusual thing about this particular hostage situation? >> caller: anything unusual about it? >> mm-hm. what has struck you as being the most unusual as far as the guy that we're seeing on the screen here? >> caller: i would say that what's unusual about it is that, you know, typically, we, you

know, in the past couple years we thought of terrorist attacks as sudden, an explosion or they'll capture someone and behead him. but this is being drawn out. in some ways, the fact that it's drawn out and sighieeing it plat over a long period of time is more dangerous than a sudden explosion. >> justin hastings, we talked with you earlier, we appreciate you talking with us again out of hawaii. >> we should mention he's with the university of sydney. so he has an understanding of the current terrorism situation in australia. we've also been hearing more from witnesses in sydney. they've been coming forward and speaking with our affiliate. and some have described the events before the gunman took

hostag hostages. >> in the few minutes i was on the phone this unfolded. i don't know whether the gun man was in there when i was in the cafe. but this unfolded very quickly at about 9:35, 9:40. and inside that cafe people were sitting down chatting over could have e-- coffee. >> the building was on lockdown. it was a bit scary, really. >> did the police come and clear your building? what happened. >> they were clearing the channel 7 news building. and then we were put on lockdown. we wouldn't go out. we couldn't go down to the public toilets downstairs, and basically we just got took out. we got shipped out in single file really fast. >> it's just amazing, isn't it, with all of the threats in the world.

people are just caught off guard because they're just living their life. >> they don't think anything's going to happen where you are. >> well, the #sydney siege is the number one topic right now. many world leaders are weighing in on their comments. >> david cameron says he was briefed overnight. my thoughts were with all those caught up in it. >> stephen harper says canada's thoughts and prayers are with our australian friends. john keith send this message, i've contacted prime minister tony abbott to let him know our thoughts are with the people of australia. >> and finally from narendra modi. i pray for everyone's safety. and we also know that in the united states, the u.s.

president, barack obama has in fact been briefed by his senior terrorism adviser, so he is aware of the situation which is ongoing right now. it is coming up to 3:00 in the morning on the east coast on monday. and earlier, bob behar told us this is not in line with what an extreme group like isis would do. >> caller: the police will get an idea, not until he comes out and starts talking will they get an idea of what the situation is. >> now they're talking about negotiators in contact with the government. first of all, how would they have done that, and exactly what will they be talking to this guy about, if they're in fact still talking? >> caller: well, they're going to first try to figure out who he is and what he wants. he may simply be a lunatic or several of them. they won't know that until they talk to the released hostages and ones that got away.

and i think that the situation's looking more benign as we go. i think when we saw the police helicopters and closing downtown, this is a standard procedure. it's an overreaction, but it's absolutely necessary in a situation like this. >> and what gives you the conclusion that this is more benign? >> caller: well, simply because, if you're going to go into a mall, and you are an isis-like group, you almost immediately resort to violence. and lockdown a place like this and some sort of a martyrdom operation. with shoisis, a lot of these pee are self-recruited and a lot of their information they're getting off the internet. we've seen them attack in

belgium, in canada. so there's no training behind this. there's no standard attack in any of this. so, actually, we can see it going any way. but i think the i think the longer it goes on without violence the more likely there won't be any. welcome back, everybody. i'm john vause at the cnn center. >> i'm natalie allen. thank you for joining us. we've been here several hours with this breaking news out of australia. and we will continue to bring you the latest now. >> and we'd like to welcome our viewers in the united states and all around the world. we'd like to give you the update now. a gunman is still holding an unknown number of people at a lindt coffee shop in sydney's main business district. sky news australia reports that the hostage taker, seen here, is calling himself the brother. he has forced hostages to speak thth three media outlets over