you see the picture of him right there. make sure to follow me on twitter. that's it for "the lead." i'm jake tapper. i now turn you over to wolf blitzer. he's in los angeles where he has brought "the situation room" with him. happening now, deadly siege. a bloody end to a stand-off as police storm a cafe where a gunman and self-proclaimed islamic cleric is killed. armed and dangerous, a manhunt under way for a suspect in the shooting deaths of six people at different sites near philadelphia. american in north korea, he says he swam across the country. is his country obligated to get him out? and sony faces blackmail. will the entertainment giant make changes about his upcoming comedy about north korea's

leader? i'm wolf blitzer. you're in "the situation room." we're following two breaking stories this hour. explosions and gunfire as police storm a cafe in the heart of sydney's business district in a bloody end to a marathon hostage standoff. two hostages are dead along with the gunman, a self-declared muslim cleric. the siege began nearly 17 hours earlier when the gunman well known to australian authorities entered the cafe. as police surrounded the area, hostages inside were forced to hold up a flag with arabic writing and to post the gunman's demands on social media. a number of hostages escaped during the course of the siege. police say they're still sorting out the details of exactly what happened. and our other breaking news, a massive search is under way right now in pennsylvania for a man suspected of killing six people at multiple sites near philadelphia. officials say all the victims have a familial relationship to

the suspect. homeland security chairman congressman mike mccaul is standing by along with our analysts and guests. let's get the latest on the bloody siege in australia. we begin with reporter cakathy novak joining us from sydney. what are you learning, kathy? >> reporter: you said it right there, bloody siege. that's the front page of the paper today, bloody end to terror siege, scenes we do not see here in sydney, australia, very dramatic developments overnight. loud bangs heard throughout the city. as we know, it ended in the deaths of two hostages and the gunman. we've heard from prime minister tony abbott this morning, calling this event tragic beyond words and saying it goes to show that even a country as open and free and generous as australia is vulnerable to politically motivated violence. he said it also goes to show that the authorities were prepared. this morning, we are hearing

praise for the police who have been involved in this siege, even though lives were lost, they are saying they did not act at the time that they did, that even more lives would be lost. they stormed this cafe to protect the hostages that were inside, as we know. earlier in the day, some hostages were able to escape. and then overnight, at 2:00 a.m., we heard that more hostages escaped and that is when all of this violence erupted and tragically ended in the deaths of two of those innocent people. >> are they saying what prompted them to move inside, to go inside that cafe and try to rescue the hostages? >> reporter: this seems to have been a decision that they made after they heard gunshots. as i said, they were saying the timing of this was crucial. if they didn't move in just as they did, they were fearful that more lives would have been lost. it had been a very long day, a tense standoff throughout the day. police, we understand, negotiating. they had had contact with this man.

and it wasn't until the middle of the night that we heard this step up to the next level, loud bangs ringing through the city, flashes in the middle of martin place. and then all of a sudden, police making this decision to move in, storm the cafe and bring the people out that they could. we saw people being carried out an stretchers, some being carried out in people's arms. and then we understand, as we know, two of them unfortunately passed away. and others were injured, including a police officer. >> kathy novak reporting for us from sydney, kathy, thank you. the gunman, a self-styled muslim cleric, originally from iran had a number of run-ins with australian authorities. cnn's atika shubert has been looking into his background. atika joins us now. what are you learning? >> reporter: this is a man with a very long rap sheet. he was facing a number of charges. one of them, accessory to the murder of his former wife. and, in fact, he was out on bail according to the judge because he posed no threat to society. but now people are wondering if

that should be taken a closer look. long before he walked into the sydney chocolate shop with a gun, 50-year-old man haron monis was well-known to australian police. various reports put his age at 49 or 50, originally from iran. he settled in australia, a self-described muslim cleric and peace activist. he appears to have converted from shia to sunni islam. in 2013, he was convicted of posting harassing letters to the families of australian soldiers killed in afghanistan. he was sentenced to 300 hours of community service. >> this pen is my gun. and these are my bullets. >> reporter: he became a fixture of sorts, staging attention-seeking protests, chaining himself to a sydney court. his poster board in this video claims he was tortured in jail. police have refused to comment. he began posting online videos as chic haron, giving lectures

on islamic law. last year, he was also charged with accessory to the murd murder of his former wife. most recently charged with sexual assault dating from 2002 when he was operating as a spiritual healer outside sydney. both charges he denies. on his website and social media, monis pledged allegiance to isis, but there is no indication so far that monis had any direct communication with isis leaders in syria or iraq. he had a number of twitter profiles, facebook pages, also a website, chicharon.com. that has been shut down. but one of the last things he posted was this, an open letter denying all the charges against him. also claiming that he had been denied access to his children. it paints a picture of a man under increasing pressure from the law, facing yet another court case in february. he also makes clear in this letter that he is not a member of, quote, any organization or

party, suggesting that his decision to take hostages was his and his alone. in the days ahead, australian police will likely reveal more details of what happened and why this so-called man of peace turned to violence. now, a lot has been made about the fact that one of his demands was on isis flag. he had another flag up there but it wasn't quite the isis flag. but in all of his postings, he does sort of have a very radical sunni ideology. but other than this one strangely worded pledge of allegiance to isis, there doesn't seem to be a lot of isis connection there, wolf. >> atika shubert reporting for us from london, thank you. while the gunman may have been inspired by radicals abroad, early indications are he acted alone. maybe the biggest concern of law enforcement officials in the united states. let's bring in our chief national are security correspondent jim sciutto. he's working this part of the story. what are you finding out.

>> reporter: this attack took place thousands of miles away from the u.s. but it is a supreme focus of u.s. counterterror officials because it appears to fit the profile of a lone wolf attack, no knowledge of his having any connection to a cell or larger plot. that immediately captures the attention of counterterror officials here in the u.s. because they have told me consistently that such lone wolf attacks are the terrorists most likely to strike here on u.s. soil. i spoke recently with the outgoing director of the national counterterrorism center and here's how he described the threat. >> i would say the most likely type of attack is one of these home-grown violent extremists or lone offenders in the united states. and the rise of isis and the number of people going to syria, whether they're fighting with isis or fighting just in the conflict there against assad, the likelihood does go up. >> reporter: this threat grew more grave with a fatwa issued just in september by al adnani

who called for attacks against all in the anti-isis coalition, that includes the u.s., uk and australia. since then police have traced the shooting of a canadian, a hatchet attack against police back to fatwa. when you look at this, lone wolfs exceptionally difficult to police and prevent because they're radicalized on their own. plus they plan and carry out attacks on their own, taking advantage of the vast trove of information on the internet, a favorite video is "how to make a bomb in your mom's kitchen." they also don't enter the country from abroad where they might be collected by immigration as they come in and they don't have any co-conspirators that they're communicating with. of course, the trouble here is that this assailant in australia did have a history. the challenge for police is

distinguishing between bad behavior like he had and bad behavior that might indicate an attempt to carry out a terror attack. wolf? >> so what do you do? what are the experts telling you about policing these so-called lone wolf attacks? >> reporter: a real focus now for u.s. law enforcement, u.s. counterterrorism is working within muslim communities to help identify at-risk people. the u.s. currently learning a great deal from the uk because the uk has had years of countering this very threat at home. you also have the possibility of undercover operations. but also something we hear a lot here in the u.s., if you see something, say something, encouraging members of the public to report suspicious activity. but the fact is frankly it's impossible to know what's inside the mind of a potential isis or al qaeda or al qaeda in the arabian peninsula simp thiters until he or she strax. you can't prevent all lone wolf

attacks. they don't leave the same trail that other attackers might. >> that's why they're so worried about lone wolf attacks, potentially the number one terror threat in the united states. jim sciutto, thanks very much. joining us, the chairman of the house committee on homeland security, republican congressman mike mccall of texas. thanks very much for joining us. do you know of any evidence that this particular hostage-holder, this man had been part of a broader plot? >> we have no evidence of that at this time. that is clearly what u.s. and australian law enforcement informations, homeland security are investigate right now. we know that he pledged allegiance to isis on his website and called the u.s., the uk and australia terrorists. so it's clear there's a radical islamist bent to this individual. whether he was directed by isis, we don't have evidence at this time.

clearly he was inspired, though, by isis. i think that's very clear from his postings. >> is there any indication -- anything we know about the timing, why this occurred, the hostage-holding, right now? >> well, i think it's important to note that after the air strikes began in iraq and syria, isis began a very impressive social media campaign calling for these types of attacks, these lone wolf attacks and they have obviously connections with australia, western europe and the united states. that's what makes u.s. officials most concerned is the idea of this type of thing happening also in the united states. so i think it's a direct result of the september order, if you will, from isis to have people that are more bent towards radicalization to start conducting attacks. that's what we saw unfortunately in sydney. >> this location in sydney, right in the heart of sydney, some are saying compared to new

york, it would be right near times square in new york, this lindt chocolate cafe. i understand based on what experts are saying that there was a specific reason he wanted this location. >> well, it's in the business district. i think that's symbolic. i think also it's what we call a soft target. there's not a lot of security there. it's also a place that average australians and frankly americans would go to a cafe. so it hits the psyche of the australians and the americans when you see something like this happen. but, remember, the prior plots that were thwarted in australia that led to the arrests of over 20 individuals and the plot to behead someone and posted on a video, that was also directed at this business district. and that's interesting if they go back to this site again. >> and that was in september, that earlier plot to supposedly go ahead and behead somebody right in downtown sydney.

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s.w.a.t. teams stormed a cafe in sydney, australia, you're looking at the video of the self-styled muslim cleric holding hostages in a marathon standoff. two hostages were killed. the gunman is dead as well. we're back with the chairman of the house homeland security committee, republican congressman mike mccaul of texas. this individual, man haron monis, he was well-known to [ [ sydney police in australia, he had been charged being an accessory to the murder of his ex-wife. he has been charged with sexual assault. he pled guilty to writing awful letters to relatives of

australian soldiers who were killed in war in iraq and afghanistan. he was obviously closely monitored but not close enough, right? >> i think that's right. it's somewhat reminiscent of the tsarnaev bomber case where he's on the radar screen of authorities and somehow drops off. i think that's what happened in this particular case. he did harass families who had their sons killed in afghanistan and was referred to as the hate sheikh. then when you look at his postings on his website, they become even more disturbing, not unlike a tamerlan tsarnaev as well where we compared australian servicemen to hitler's soldiers. this is a classic case we need to prevent in the future not only in australia but here in the united states as well. >> how concerned is u.s. law enforcement all over the country right now about a possible

copycat attack in the united states? >> it's the number one counterterrorism threat to the united states. and it's a dual threat, wolf. there are two threats. one would be the foreign fighters who travel to iraq and syria and have trained in the art of warfare coming back to the united states. a similar amount have gone from the united states have also come from australia to iraq and syria. it's that foreign fighter threat, direct threat. but there's also the internet threat of radicalization over the internet which i think is probably going to be the case, we'll find out in this sydney hostage situation, where you have an individual who can radicalize over the internet and teaches you how to make bombs, how to go on acts of terrorism. so that's one that's most difficult to stop because you don't have a cell, per se, that you want to be trying to break up. it's really the idea of being able to monitor somebody on public websites and be able to stop an act of terror before it

happens. >> and this individual clearly wanted attention. he did this assault at this cafe directly across the street from a major television studio -- television station in sydney. mr. chairman, you've said this should be a call to action for the united states. explain what you'd like to see u.s. law enforcement, local, state, federal authorities do? unfortunately, i think we've lost our satellite with the chairman, mike mccaul. we'll try to reconnect with him and get some more. but clearly he wants action right now by the department of homeland security on a national level, also state and local authorities to beef up their monitoring potentially as he points out of some sort of copycat, lone wolf attack which he says is the number one threat to the united states from terrorism right now. coming up, a closer look at how u.s. police are being trained right now to know the right place to move in in a

hostage standoff. we're also following other breaking news. in a rampage that's left six people dead near philadelphia with an armed and dangerous suspect right now on the loose. plus, a new headache involving north korea after an american citizen sneaks in and denounces the united states. stay with us. you're in "the situation room."

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we're following the breaking news in pennsylvania right now where an urgent manhunt is under way for an armed and dangerous suspect in a rampage that's left six people dead and another

seriously wounded. let's get the very latest from our national correspondent, susan candiotti. who do we know, susan? >> reporter: this appears to involve a 35-year-old divorced man, child custody issues, a shooting rampage and a law enforcement official telling me that this appears to be a domestic dispute. and it's not over yet. victims scattered in three different homes in montgomery county, pennsylvania, near philadelphia. and it all began around 4:00 this morning with shots fired. police find their first victim, a woman. our source telling me it's his ex-wife. a neighbor telling our affiliate wpvi that she saw the suspect with his children wearing pajamas coming out of the house after this neighbor heard gunshots. >> i heard the kids yelling, mommy, no. and he just said, let's go, we've got to go. >> reporter: now, the children, i am told, are all right. the suspect is being identified

as bradley stone, 35 years old. the district attorney says the suspect, even though they say he sometimes uses a walker or a cane to get around, somehow made it to another location where more bodies were found and then a third location. and, again, more bodies found there. another person was seriously wounded. six dead in all. police now concentrating on another home, wolf, a s.w.a.t. team is involved. they've been following him all day long. it is sunset now and there appears to be no end in sight. wolf? >> if you get a development, let us know. susan candiotti, thanks very much. as the pennsylvania manhunt continues, our pentagon correspondent barbara starr is getting new information from her sources about the suspect's military record. barbara, what are you learning? >> reporter: wolf, bradley stone was a former u.s. marine. he was a reservist. he joined in 2002 and for about three months in 2008 went to iraq, served with an artillery

unit essentially as a weatherman predicting the weather for their precision strikes. no indication in his military record at this point that he was wounded or that he had any specialized weapons training. this is someone who served for about three months in iraq. came back and then basically completed all of his reserve service and eventually left the marine corps about three years ago. so no indication at this point that any of the military training he got resulted in any skills that he might have used in this very deadly rampage today. wolf? >> barbara, thank you. we'll continue to monitor this story for our viewers. if there's a break, we'll of course share it with you right away. let's get back to the other breaking news we're following right now, the australian police storming a cafe right in the heart of sydney where a gunman held hostages in a marathon standoff. two of the captives are dead along with the gunman. a self-styled muslim cleric.

police are sorting out the details of the siege and the final assault. brian todd is joining us now. he's been looking into the police tactics. brian, what are you learning? >> reporter: this standoff and the i a salt that ended it played out in a densely populated urban setting, the lindt cafe in the heart of sydney's financial district, not far from the opera house right across the street from a tv station. tonight police are examining whether that was a calculated location by the gunman and they're looking at whether the decision to assault the cafe was the right move at the time. what police call a dynamic entry and a lethal outcome, two hostages and the gunman dead. police say there was one breaking point after a more than 16-hour siege. >> as a result of an exchange of gunfire inside that premises, police moved in. >> reporter: veteran hostage negotiators tell cnn police in sydney likely did a lot of preparation before the final

assault, getting into position, going over possible signs from the hostage-taker that he was about to get violent. they'd already gotten one indicator. a witness saying the gunman got extremely agitated when five hostages escaped earlier in the standoff. >> he may have said, for example, if another hostage escapes or makes a certain movement, at that point in time i'm going to make everyone pay. >> reporter: a national security source tells cnn police were concerned about the gunman's thick black vest and whether it contained explosives. experts say before moving in, police would have also been very cognizant of this suspect's violent criminal background, which included reported sexual assault charges and being charged as an accessory to his ex-wife's murder. >> he's also out on bail. so he's in a way thinking to himself, i have nothing to lose. i'm here. i'm going to make my statement. >> reporter: part of that statement may have been suspect man haron monis' choice of location, a busy cafe in downtown sydney during the morning commute, across the

street from a tv station. >> he had the biggest bang for his buck in the sense that he had people inside the place. they were going to work. he had a location where there would be a lot of people. he also had people using social media. >> reporter: fbi veteran chris boss takes us inside that moment when hostage negotiations have been exhausted and police are moving in. what is it like? >> you're right on the edge the entire time. and you always think that you can continue to influence the outcome even though it may be going down. you're trying to think of anything else you might possibly be able to do. maybe you can offer a distraction. but you never want to give up. >> reporter: but voss says there are other times a negotiator might have to tell an incident commander that he's got to use deadly force to end the standoff. he says after this incident, investigators are going to be looking at whether this suspect was on what he calls a killing journey, whether the suspect went in predetermined to kill others knowing that he would be killed in the process. wolf? >> what are some of the

indicators of whether this suspect did that, that he actually knew he was going -- that it was almost like a suicide mission for this guy? >> reporter: some of the indicators, according to chris voss, if the suspect might have selected the location of the siege, the timing of it in advance, those are some indicators. chris voss says those indicators are present here in his mind. but that's got to play out in the investigation. >> brian todd reporting for us. brian, thanks very much. i want to alert our viewers that we're standing by now for a news conference in new york city. the police commissioner, william bratton s about to meet together with the news media, they're going to be talking about what happened in sydney, australia, also talking about the demonstrations which have occurred in new york city over the past few days. once again, bill bratton, the new york city police commissioner, getting ready to answer reporters' questions on what's going on. we'll have live coverage right here in "the situation room." stay with us for that. in the meantime, let's get

some analysis. joining us now, our cnn national security analyst bob baer, our cnn terrorism analyst paul crookchank and tom fuentes. tom, was going in at that move, 16 hours plus, tactically the right thing if in fact it resulted in the deaths of those two hostages? >> it may have been, wolf. we don't know exactly what triggered the decision by the incident commander to say, go ahead and make the dynamic entry. i've been an incident commander in hostage situations. it is one of the most difficult situations you can be in. you rely on your professional team, your negotiators to tell you what's going on inside and if they hear shots fired or if they believe this person's about to harm the hostages, you have to make that decision to save as many as you can. >> so the suspicion is they heard some shots, they heard

something which prompted the move right in and unfortunately two of the hostages were killed, the shooter was killed himself. i assume they're going to be reviewing all of that to make sure they did hear shooting which prompted the assault, right? >> absolutely. they'll also have recordings of all of the dispatch traffic between the tactical teams, the s.w.a.t. team, the negotiators, the negotiator leader, everybody that's relaying information to the commander about what's going on and what they're seeing, what they're hearing. so they'll absolutely have recordings, they'll have documents, they'll have logs. they'll be able to do an extensive review of what occurred. >> and think will be able to determine pretty quickly whether the two hostages who are dead were shot, in fact, by the hostage-holder with that shotgun as opposed to inadvertently, accidentally by the police who came in, right? that shouldn't be that difficult to determine the cause of death --

>> it could be difficult because shots fired in an enclosed structure could ricochet around. maybe goes into a body, maybe hits a bone. they should be able to match up whether it was a gun -- who it was fired by. but we don't know that. that will be difficult to determine right now. >> paul, even if there was no direct link to isis, these kinds of lone wolf attacks, this is precisely what isis likes, right? >> wolf, that's absolutely right. back in september, there was a fatwa issued calling for these lone wolf attacks in united states, australia and other western countries. since then, we've had a string of terrorist attacks. in the plot in london in october, then't ises were absolutely devouring this fatwa. it was a real game changer, really has increased this threat

from lone wolf terrorism. >> bob, i want you to listen to this barbara starr interview of jeh johnson. he expressed deep concern about a scenario just like the scenario that seems to have played out in sydney, australia. listen to this. >> the new phenomenon that i see that i'm very concerned about is somebody who's never met another member of that terrorist organization, never trained at one of the camps, who is simply inspired by the social media, the literature, the propaganda, the message to commit an act of violence in this country. >> is this really a new phenomenon, bob, and is the u.s. prepared? >> it is new. and i'd like to point something out. this man had been a shia muslim, apparently was raised one. not only that, he was iranian. iranians do not engage in martyrdom attacks since the iraq/iran war.

this is highly unusual. crossing that sectarian line. i frankly can't remember a case when this happened before. so he went from shia to sunni. sunni radical, self-recruited. that means to me that almost anybody could make that leap. from christianity to sunni islam as well. and keeping track of all these people that sit on the internet and convert themselves is impossible for law enforcement. you just don't -- and on top of it is the vulnerable target. think if he'd had an automatic weapon in the united states or easier access to explosives or he'd even linked up with one person, they could have done a lot more damage in that mall than happened in sydney. >> this individual was born in iran, he was 49 or 50 years old, this man haron monis. and you're right, he was an iranian shiite. but the word on the street was over there in sydney he converted and became a sunni and sympathized with isis, if you

will. what you're saying, bob, is that this is highly unusual for an iranian shiite to convert to become a sunni muslim, is that right? >> it's very, very rare. i can't think of another case, wolf, where this has happened. and also the whole idea this was probably what they call a martyrdom operation, he knew he was going to die and didn't put down his gun when the police came to the windows, and that is unusual, too, because iranians just don't do that. so this phenomenon of self-conversion and turning to jihadi islam seems to me to be getting worse and not better. >> tom, this individual, man haron monis, he was well well-known to law enforcement in australia, had been actually charged as an accessory to the murder of his ex-wife. and she was murdered in a brutal way, assaulted and then burnt. he's charged repeatedly with sexual assault. he pled guilty to writing awful

letters to relatives of australian soldiers who were killed in action in iraq and afghanistan. he was being monitored. but obviously something went horribly wrong there, tom. looking back, what are the lessons we should all be learning from this? >> the lessons learned are to have our security services try to be more vigilant. but the fact is, whether it's the united states or australia or the uk, we don't have the resources to identify a bad person. here he had criminal conduct, more so than before indicating terrorism, even writing the letters. but you have somebody like that that appears to be really just mentally challenged and a criminal and the authorities there -- the australians don't have the number of people that it would take to follow everybody like that around the clock. >> in the 1990s, he fled iran. he came to australia. he sought political asylum. he was granted asylum, allowed

to live in australia. we see what happens right now. paul, let's talk a little bit about that. what's a bigger threat right now, this home-grown terror, this inspired lone wolf, or individuals looking to come to the united states and conduct attacks along the lines of what happened on 9/11? >> wolf, i think the most immediate threat is from individuals who are already here, lone wolf kind of terrorism. but i don't think we should discount the threat of terrorist attacks being orchestrated by isis itself. this is an organization that said very clearly now that it's coming after the united states. they have 1,000 westerners in their ranks. they have a lot of money. they have training camps. in many ways, they have everything they need to launch carnage on western streets. there's also in syria and iraq, particularly in syria, the khorasan group, an al qaeda a-team plotting attacks against u.s. aviation. one of their key bomb-makers, turns out he's still alive, a

frenchman. >> bob, some u.s. law enforcement authorities have said to me they're really worried about what they call copycat attacks, someone inspired, if you will, by what just happened in sydney, getting all that publicity for 16, 17 hours, you can imagine what would happen if in the united states to happen near times square, something along those lines. how worried should u.s. law enforcement be about a copycat? >> terrified of it. i'm in touch with the fbi and police and they're worried about that very thing. it could be attacking a school under the banner of isis with an automatic weapon. think what it would do to this country in terms of where it would take our foreign policy. there's nothing they can do about it. these people are working around the clock, looking at social media and analytics. they're being tracked but unless they commit a crime, there's not much you can do.

>> tom, it looks like the enormity of this mission is really expanding. here's the question, does the u.s. have the manpower to get the job done? >> no. nobody does. you hope, you analyze all the information you have, you make your best choices about who is worthy of electronic surveillance or physical surveillance, both are very resource-intensive. and you can't follow everybody. we have hundreds of thousands of people on our terror watch list in this country. if i could add one more thing, australia does not have assault rifles in the hands of the public like we have in this country. so if we have people that decide to do this here, they have much easier access to assault rifles, military-grade weaponry, body armor, then we'll see why the police here have militarized type equipment. >> guys, thanks very much. don't go too far away. we're standing by for this news

conference in new york city. the new york city police commissioner bill bratton getting ready to make a statement and answer reporters' questions. we'll be joined by john miller, the deputy commissioner for intelligence counterterrorism, also well-known to our viewers. they'll be answering questions about what happened in sydney, the lessons learned for new york and other places in the united states. live coverage coming up here in "the situation room." also, new details emerging right now about an american who managed to sneak into north korea saying he had valuable information for the north koreans, that they would appreciate. stand by. we'll share what we know. plus, sony pictures faces new blackmail threats and may change some versions of its upcoming movie about the north korean dictator kim jong-un. we have new information for you. hello... i'm an idaho potato farmer and our big idaho potato truck is still missing. so my buddy here is going to help me find it.

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we're waiting for the new york city police commissioner, bill bratton, he's getting ready to hold a news conference in new york city. there you see live pictures coming in from the nypd. he's going to be joined by john miller, they're going to be speaking about what happened in sydney, australia, the hostage situation, 16, almost 17 hours hostage crisis right in downtown sydney, australia. what it means for new york and elsewhere. they're also going to be talking about the latest demonstrations which have occurred in new york city reacting to the staten island grand jury decision, the ferguson, missouri, grand jury. once bill bratton and john miller show up there, we'll have live coverage. stand by for that. bob baer is still with us, our national security analyst, former cia operator, tom fuentes is with us. tom, you're a former assistant director of the fbi. the cops in new york city, they see what happened in sydney. they immediately start to draw

some lessons potentially, what this could mean for new york, right? >> i think it just means that it could happen and it could happen anywhere. that's the problem, the so-called soft targets. it also shows that if it's a change of tactics of isis and other terrorists -- before, they were calling for people to attack people in uniform, soldiers, police officers. we saw the attacks of soldiers in canada, the nypd officers in new york city, the guy with the hatchet attacking them. but now if the attack plan for this past september in sydney was just take an innocent citizen off the sidewalk and behead him on camera, put the video on the internet as an isis recruiting tape -- that's a whole new thing. most citizens don't get immediately terrorized. if they see a journalist in syria or iraq getting beheading, they tell themselves, i'll never

be in syria or iraq. they see another incident, i don't work in the pentagon. i don't work here, i don't do that. but when you see innocent people off the sidewalk or in a coffee shop or in a restaurant, then people say to themselves, wait a minute, that could be me, i do that activity in my daily routine, i could get caught up in a terrorist act. that becomes more terrifying. >> bob baer, i want to remind our viewers we're waiting for bill bratton, the new york city police commissioner to walk into that room. you see the live coverage we'll have. there it is right there. he's going to be coming in with john miller, deputy commissioner for intelligence and counterterrorism. looks like they're getting ready to open with a statement. and then answer reporters' questions, responding to what happened in sydney, australia, as well as some of the demonstrations in new york over the past few days. this is a pretty terrifying thought that what happened in sydney potentially -- we all hope it doesn't -- could happen in new york city, right, bob? >> well, wolf, i can speculate

on this. i don't know. but this man in sydney was a lunatic and the chances of a lunatic in this country seeing in and mimicking it in some way, i think, are pretty good. i can't tell you for certain because there's no central organization to isis controlling this. i think it's a good chance it's going to happen here. i think this is what the police commissioner of new york is going to be talking about. >> they're now walking in. i want to immediately listen to their opening statement. bill bratton, he's joined by john miller. let's listen in. >> chief of if department jim o'meo o'neil. and chief of manhattan detectives bill aubrey. on saturday, we had a large march here on the city, 25,000 to 30,000 demonstrators. by and large, the events of that day went off as we would expect, without incident, large crowds.

police were there to facilitate and ensure that the services were kept to a minimum. but on saturday evening, on the brooklyn bridge, a small group sought to change the dynamics of that day and chose to make it all about them. during the course of that, they attempted to also assault and significantly injure potentially both police officers, as well as other demonstrators, who were proceeding over the brooklyn bridge. the demonstrators being escorted by members of the nypd. fortunately for those below on the roadway, two of our officers, two lieutenants assigned to our legal affairs bureau, were wearing civilian clothes but with police rain jackets, clearly identified as new york city police officers, encountered an individual

attempting to lift these baskets that weigh 45 to 50 pounds, he was attempting to throw one of those baskets off the footway onto the bridge below. fortunately, they were able to enter seed. those baskets are normally chained on the bridge to prevent that type of incident. but this was unchained. so i want to publicly applaud the actions of lieutenant chong and lieutenant sullivan for the actions they took that evening, putting themselves at great risk that ultimately ended up in them being attacked and beaten by that group of agitators on the bridge. i want to ask chief aubrey to give you a briefing. i just have come from a briefing upstairs. we've reviewed the videos and some of the still photos he will walk you through. we are looking for six additional individuals, three

women, three men. tomorrow we'll have enhanced photos with significant rewards to identify them. we do not take attacks on our police officers lightly. never will, never will. so we will endeavor to identify and arrest anybody who attacks a new york city police officer. thankfully, we have so many characters looking to post these things on youtube, we're greatly assisted. so in that regard, i want to thank them for providing us the evidence. with that, i would like chief aubrey to give you a discussion of the events of saturday night, the investigation going forward, and what we hope will be public support and identification of the six people that we're looking for. chief aubrey? >> 7:30 p.m. on saturday night, lieutenant chan and lieutenant sullivan war on the walkway of

if brooklyn bridge. they were on the matt happen tat side when they saw an individual who he arrested with a garbage pail and they ended up grabbing that individual before he threw that garbage pail over the railing and onto the roadway. previous to that, there were officers that were on the roadway, and there were bottles and cans being thrown down on. when lieutenant chan approached the individual to arrest him, there were other individuals that came over and they attempted to prevent lieutenant chan from apprehending the individual that we arrested. in reviewing video and witness statements and the evidence that we have, there are six 1rids that we're looking for. three females and three males. the first male is a male with a mustache. as you can see in the pictures over here, he attempts to prevent lieutenant chan from apprehending the individual. he pulls lieutenant chan off of

the individual and he elbows lieutenant chan. lieutenant chan then tries to pursue that individual and then comes back. there's also three females. female number one, she has a red scarf on and she grabs lieutenant chan, as well, trying to prevent him from making an arrest. then there's female two, she has a multicolored skirt, she grabs lieutenant sullivan. then there's the third female, she attempts to grab the officers, as well. as the incident goes on, the individual that we arrested proceeds further onto the bridge, followed by the crowd, and lieutenant sullivan and lieutenant chan. there's an individual that you can see kicking lieutenant sullivan while he's on the floor, trying to apprehend him. then there's a third male who clearly punches lieutenant chan, knocks him, and then punches him again and knocks him.

so those are the three males and three females we are going to provide clearer pictures of tomorrow. >> questions on this issue? >> yes, sir? [ inaudible question ] >> charged with assault that night at 3:00 a.m. there was another arrest of another individual for being on a roadway, yes, for disorderly conduct, obstructing traffic. [ inaudible ] >> not that we can say right now. [ inaudible question ]

>> this incident goes over a two-minute period. so when lieutenant chan tries to handcuff him, it's a two minute period that goes by where there's individuals that are punching and kicking our two lieutenants. he is clearly resisting, and there's video evidence that he does show a punch. >> the criminal complaint yesterday, identifies the officers at gallagher and chan? >> it's sullivan and chan. it's patrick sullivan and phillip chan. [ inaudible question ] >> there is video evidence that clearly shows linsker resisting arrest and throwing a punch.

i'm not going to comment any further on that. [ inaudible question ] >> yes. [ inaudible ] >> they come from stills from a youtube video, yes. [ inaudible ] >> yes, lieutenant sullivan and lieutenant chan were calling for assistance and you could see the radio in lieutenant sullivan's hand and you could see that they're grabbing at him while he was attempting to call for help. lieutenant chan has a broken nose. they both have contusions throughout their body, necks, head. when you see the video, you can see as individuals are punching them and kicking at them. [ inaudible ]

>> yes. they're in a rain jacket, plain cloepts with a rain jacket on. they're police officers, so they have a radio and firearm, everything that you would have as a plain clothes officer. [ inaudible ] >> no, they clearly were in an nypd rain jacket. [ inaudible ] >> i would rather not comment on that. 5ud aud [ inaudible ] >> they oversee and observe the actions of police officers and th demonstrators. >> during these types of demonstrations, we feel quite a few of our department attorneys, most of whom are police officers also. so the deputy commissioner for legal affairs wille you some

sense of their responsibilities. let me point out, they were police officers, they were clearly identified as such. they were clearly wearing police rain jackets. they were in the course of making a lawful arrest. they were interfered with. they were beaten and in an attempt to rescue that prisoner, who was able to flee but we were able to arrest him later on. and our spent is to arrest all six of these individuals, the three men and three women. i would anticipate cooperation from the public. larry, you're on. >> on saturday evening, we had 23 lawyers and personnel, uniformed members and service and civilians deployed at various protests throughout the city throughout the day. i was out with them, as well, starting at washington square

park. the legal bureau has been very active since the most recent round of protests began after the decision in ferguson and for many years has played an important role in these large protests. >> this is cnn breaking news. >> across the line. >> i'm wolf blitzer in "the situation room." we're covering this live news conference from the new york city police department on the protests in new york over the past couple of days, as well as we anticipate the reaction from the nypd of what has happened in sidney, australia, that nearly 17-hour hostage siege in downtown sidney. let's go back to the news conference. >> many families, many community members who wanted to express their outrage. so the legal bureau is out there to protect the rights of protesters and the rights of those who are arrested when they cross the line and commit a crime.

>> let me give you a little sense of the extent of what we were dealing with. since wednesday of december 3rd, we've made 331 arrests total. 6 arrests were for assaults on members of the new york city police department. we have also police successfully with the actual minimums of violence and levels of violence and vandalism, other than those directed at our police officers, successfully been able to ensure constitutional rights to tens of thousands of new yorkers and others to demonstrate peacefully. however, when agitators and others would seek to take over these events, we will deal very quickly and effectively with them. as indicated by the investigations that we're conducting, our outfit will be focused on anybody who seeks to assault a new york city police officer or anybody who seeks to disrupt these demonstrations

through acts of violence or vandalism. we will pursue them, arrest them, charge them and prosecute them. these events are proving very costly for the city of new york. since the inception that we have fielded the equivalent of 38,700 tours of duty. that's 38,700 tours of duty since december 3rd. we've expended $22.9 million. so these events have been costly and a significant drain on the manpower of the city. manpower that's been pulled in from many of the precincts around the city. but all our efforts are to ensure that in new york people have the ability to demonstrate peacefully and we encourage that they do that. if they have individuals such as this group in their midst, that they work with us to get them out of their midst. because they do nothing to support the efforts that they're demonstrating for. rather they take away from those

efforts. i w efforts. you'll clearly see in the video a couple of these individuals in the bright green hats. i was very disappointed to see them not taking any action whatsoever to assist the police officers or to try to mitigate the assault on our police officers. so i just wanted this evening to work to get the word out that we are looking for these individuals and will continue looking for them until we apprehend them. >> that's the overtime we've extended on these demonstrations. $23 million on these demonstrations so far. >> do acts like this change the

strategy that the police may use in managing these protests? >> the tactics we use are designed, and there's no police department in the world better prepared to design and implement the constantly changing strategies to deal with changing circumstances. again, we'll continually adjust our strategies to deal with changing circumstances. i would point out that those arrests have been made with minimum issue by and large and that the city has not experienced significant violence or vandalism except directed at officers of this department, who you have to applaud them also. you see what they're facing, people in their face deliberately trying to taunt them into taking assertive

action. all of them carrying cameras. the language being directed at them does not serve the causes they are seeking to support. so i'm publicly applauding the actions of the members of my department, the thousands of officers involved night after night. many of you have been in those same streets. they've done an outstanding job protecting first amendment rights and attempting to protect the rights of every person in this city. >> so there's bill bratton, new york city police commissioner. he's angry at some of the protesters, a small number. most were very peaceful doing what they have a right to do, but there were some he says who went after police, severely injured several police officers. now a manhunt under way in new york city for those responsible for injuring those new york city cops.

happening now, breaking news. deadly siege. the world watches in horror as grenades and gunfire bring a 16-hour hostage drama to a violent end. the gunman, a self-proclaimed islamic cleric, already charged in other cases. why was he free on bail? lone terrorist. a hatchet attack in new york. a gunman storms the canadian parliament. can they be stopped tens of thousands of people march nationwide. new documents are released in the michael brown case. what questions are they raising about the grand jury testimony? we want to welcome our viewers in the united states and around the world. i'm wolf blitzer. you're in "the situation room." >> this is cnn breaking news. >> and let's get right to the breaking news. the climax of a 16-hour hostage

drama. a self-proclaimed muslim cleric, apparently inspired by isis, holding 17 people captive in downtown sidney, australia. it all came to an explosive end with a series of flash grenades and a barrage of bullets. the gunman and two hostages are dead. we're covering all angles of the breaking news with our correspondents, our guests. full coverage coming up this hour. cnn's anna coren in sidney has the latest. >> reporter: police storm a cafe in sidney, australia filled with hostages held for nearly 17 hours. stun grenades are thrown into the building. gunfire erupts and the battle lasts for almost five minutes. through the windows, flashes of gunfire and stun grenades exploding. hostages can be seen fleeing the cafe in groups. one man runs forwards police

with his hands in the air. an injured woman is carried from the scene. when it's all over, paramedics rush in. at least three are dead, including the gunman. >> two deceased amongst the hostages and six uninjured. we also have a lone gunman who has been shot and killed. and we have a police officer who has been injured as a result of a gunshot would to the face. >> reporter: the gunman, man haron monis, is an iranian native and self-proclaimed sheikh. he's currently out on bail for a 2013 charge as an accessory to murder of his former wife. the siege started when the gunman walked into the elite chocolate cafe just before 10:00 a.m. local and took 17 hostages. turning normally bustling city streets silent. during the standoff, some hostages were able to escape and run to safety. he had hostages hold a black flag in the cafe window demanding an isis flag to

replace it. chilling images of hostages with hands and faces pressed against the windows shocked australians. at one point, hostages were forced to record videos. a local radio host spoke directly with one of the hostages. >> they found my program. obviously i didn't want to put them to air, so i took their calls off air. at the same time, could hear the hostage taker giving the young man who spoke to me instructions on what he wanted to do. >> reporter: after 2:00 a.m. local, a gunshot is heard from inside the cafe and a hostage goes down. tactical police storm the building from two different directions. there were at least nine people inside the building at the time. some hostages are able to escape. monis is shot and killed. >> there is a number of gunshots that were heard, which caused officers to move straight to the emergency action plan and that caused them to enter.

>> anna coren reporting to us from sidney, australia. this is certainly the kind of attack that u.s. officials worry about, a lone terrorist inspired to strike. jim sciutto is working this part of the story for us. >> reporter: u.s. officials have told me that lone wolf attacks are the most likely attack to take mace here on u.s. soil. they are difficult to police and to prevent. the brazen hostage taking in a downtown sidney cafe ended with a risky police operation and bloodshed. the assailant, man haron monis, believed to have planned and carried out the attack on his own. u.s. officials told cnn that such lone wolves are the

terrorists most likely to strike on u.s. soil. >> the new phenomena that i see, that i'm concerned about, is somebody who's never met another member of that terrorist organization, never trained at one of the camps, who is simply inspired by the social media, the literature, the propaganda, the message to commit an act of violence in this country. >> i would say the most likely tactic is one of these homegrown violent extremists or lone offenders in the united states. and the rise of isis and the number of people in syria, whether they're fighting against isis or against assad, the likelihood does go up. >> reporter: this is the senior isis leader that called for lone wolf attacks against all members of the anti-isis coalition,

including the u.s., the uk, and australia. since then, investigators have traced the shooting of a canadian soldier in ottawa, a hatchet attack on police in new york, and a lot in the uk to shoot police officers back to the isis fatwa. they often do not enter the country from abroad, and they often don't communicate by e-mail or telephone with operational leaders, making them harder for intelligence agencies such as the nsa to track and capture them. >> while we're never going to stop these kinds of attacks, the good news is they tend to have limited impact. there are fewer victims, fewer dead. and in the end, that may be the standard for success in this new era of terrorism. >> how do you police these attacks? a big focus now is working with and inside muslim communities.

the u.s. learning a great deal from the uk on that to help identify possible recruits, possible attackers, undercover operations play a big role. also, encouraging members of the public to report suspicious activity. but it may be impossible for many of these possible suspects to know what's inside the mind of every islamist sympathizer. but the trouble is, this attacker did have a track record with police. the question is, did they not act sooner to identify him as a possible attacker down the road? >> a critically important question. thank you very much, jim sciutto. i want to go back to the news conference in new york. john miller, deputy commissioner in charge of intelligence and counterterrorism, speaking about the lessons to learn from what happened in sidney, australia, for cops in new york. >> -- is to go to locations that can be potential threats.

the empire state building, the financial district, this target in sydney was in the heart of their financial district. columbus circle, other high profile locations. mobile field forces, from chief o'neal and chief gomez's shop, that are out there as part of the detail working on the demonstrations available to respond to anywhere. we're able to respond to a number of those locations, including times square. so what you saw today was a lot of intelligence driven, strategically based, high profile police coverage. including the heavily armed hercules teams. we've been in regular contact with the new wales south police.

we also were in contact with their officials here in new york, and their representative in washington, trying to make sure that we got a steady flow and exchange of information, as well as offering them any assistance in terms of taskings to run any leads here, in terms of contacts, individuals, associations of the gunman. the intelligence bureau in a dozen foreign posts and other countries, we are going to dispatch our post from singapore to sidney, australia, to work with the australian federal miss, as well as the new south sales police in learning more about these incidents. what we look for is who was the actor involved in the incident, were there any people behind that actor, what message or

messages was that person or people responding to? what was the original intent, how did they execute that. in other words, all the elements that we can look at, that can help us learn from it. we always put the new york overlay there and say if that incident happened here, what would be the dynamics that are the same and those that are different? so that is an overview of an awful lot that was happening. some that was very obvious to the public because you could see it and a good deal that happened behind the scenes. >> all right. so there you have john miller, deputy commissioner in new york city nypd intelligence and counterterrorism, explaining a much more severe new york city

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we're following the hostage drama that unfolded in sidney, australia. the crisis unfolded directly across the street from the studios of australia's 7 network, a television network in australia. chris reason is one of the correspondents and witnessed the drama as it happened. he's joining us now from sidney. you were an eyewitness to what was going on. chris, explain what you saw. >> reporter: hello to you, wolf. it was a dramatic day in any man's language. we were here yesterday morning about 9:45 when the movements

first started happening here at the cafe behind me here. it's only 30 meters away from the studio here in sidney. and our cameras were all set out overlooking martin place and we could see straight into the cafe and see the events from the get-go. the police realized this and moved in quickly and within half an hour decided this was a dangerous area, that we're basically in the line of fire of the gunman should he decide to point his weapon in this direction, so they evacuated the building. fortunately the police allowed me and the cameraman to stay behind and come back in. what we saw through the day was something extraordinary. by our count, about 16 hostages in all, a mix of demographics, old, young, male, female. the youngest, a man in his 20s, no children were thankfully involved. but we could see from our

position here, particularly with the cameras, zooming in through those four windows, you can see behind me the main windows of the cafe. throughout the day, we saw with great detail exactly what was going on. we saw hostages being put up against the plate glass windows for some for prolonged durations. one blonde woman was forced to stand there with her hands up against the windows for two hours. we could see the pain and the exhaustion in her face through the afternoon. we could see the blood shot red eyes. she had been crying for some time. beside her, the young man, his hands up against the window. each hostage forced to hold up the black banner that's been tied to the i.s. cause. at various times of the day, we had three hostages in those windows, down to one hostage. the day ebbed and flow. we saw them come and go.

it's a very scene calm and collected until this morning about 2:00 local time. first, i saw still inside this building, in the darkness from up here on level four, right beside a new south wales sharp shooter, a sniper. we saw some activity about 2:00 this morning, as the gunman, looking agitated and concerned, moved the hostages around the cafe, first to one side, then the other. as he gathered some on this side, wolf, the guys on this side, seven by my count, managed to run out the side door and escape. that started a whole new process, a whole new ball game. the gunman seems to have panicked and taken a shot as a hostage. the sniper standing beside me, said into his radio, window two, hostage down, window two, hostage down. from that point, the police decided to ramp up their efforts

here. within seconds, squads of tactical response group officers, armed to the teeth, wearing black, night vision goggles on, in through both doors, flash bang weapons happening, a series of sharp explosions. some gunfire exchanged and within those two minutes, bang, the gunman was killed, dead on the floor and we saw the removal of the hostages very quickly onto hospital gurneys, down to waiting ambulances where they were given treatment. two unfortunately, as you have reported, passed away. >> very unfortunately indeed. so chris, describe the hostage taker, this man, his name is man haron monis. you had a good view of him. describe what he looked like, his interactions specifically with the hostages. >> yeah, look, we could see him in and out of those window shots

throughout the day, women. he was wearing a white shirt, black cap, unshaven. you could see that menacing gun he had strapped on his left shoulder. it was a pump action shotgun. at times, he would take that off and jab it in the ribs of the hostages as they were there. he was always present lurking in the background. you can only imagine what was going through the minds of the hostages who were trapped underneath his gaze. we didn't see much emotional reaction from the gunman. at one stage about 4:00 local time, a group of five hostages managed to escape from this side of the cafe. at that point, we could see from in here the face of the gunman turned aggressive. he was very aggressive and annoyed. he started shouting at the hostages, i presume that he was

saying something about stay still, get down, don't move. and you could see the fear and aggression on his face at that point. very tense moment. and then the next time we see him is through the night as he comes in and out of the shot. we saw him with his gun waving it around. at one point, holding an ipad and we could see his face reflected in the glow of that ipad and the deep dark nest just over my shoulder in the early hours. >> chris reason, one of the correspondents, an eyewitness, very excellent report for us. good detail. thank you very much, chris, for that report. we really appreciate it. just ahead, more on the breaking news. the shocking role of social media in this unfolding drama. hostages forced to reveal the gunman's demands online. and new documents raising questions about the grand jury testimony in the michael brown shooting case. so,as my personal financial psychic,

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we're following the breaking news.

the hostage drama in sidney, australia. a self-proclaimed muslim cleric holding 17 people captive in a downtown cafe. he and two hostages died as police stormed the building. throughout the ordeal, there were chilling threats and desperate pleas as the gunman forced the hostages to post his demands on social media. cnn's tom foreman is working this part of the story. what are you finding out, tom? >> reporter: wolf, from the beginning this man used social media as a dangerous forced multiplier, constantly implying that he represented a much bigger and much more broad strike. from the beginning, right until the bitter end, the gunman put social media into play. >> i think there's probably a number of medians that have been used, but we all have to be very careful not to completely overreact at this time.

>> reporter: four times the gunman apparently forced hostages to record video of his demands and post them online. in the final one, a woman says urgently, this is all he wants. it's not hard. why are we still here? please help us. i'm begging. but the gunman also used these messages to say he had bombs planted elsewhere, and to imply he had outside operatives to set them off. police have found no evidence of that. >> to the people of sidney, this was an isolated incident. it is an isolated incident. >> reporter: still, as authorities tried to calm fears, the gunman was ramping them up, urging his hostages to urge their social media accounts to publicize their plight. >> this whole thing is playing out on facebook, twitter, you know, through radio. it is a very bizarre situation. >> reporter: radio announcers? yes, four times a radio station host says he was called by a

23-year-old hostage. apparently under orders from the gunman who was ranting in the background. >> calling me a scum bag, calling me the media generally scum bags for incorrectly reporting isil as being a group of people who are murderous bastards with no regard for human life. >> reporter: authorities scrambled to shut down social media outlets, but it was not easy with so many in play. for a period of time, he succeeded in at least raising serious questions about whether or not this was the vanguard of something bigger. even thousanow, police say no, just using social media to inflate himself. there are questions on social media where the debate wages, maybe he represented a much more distant and fearsome enemy in this attack. wolf? >> tom foreman, thank you very much. let's dig deeper. joining us, bob baer.

phillip mudd, and tom fuentes. and our national security analyst peter bergen. phillip, how unusual is it that the gunman forced hostages to actually post messages to these various social media sites? >> boy, i remember back -- wolf, you'll probably remember those attacks in mumbai, going back six or seven years, when people in the attack group from pakistan and india were using smartphones to broadcast live. it was incredible the power then of social media to transmit those messages. i think the question we're going to have after this is how do we give police the tools to shut down somebody's phone, to shut down somebody's social media access on site. so these kinds of people can't get access from a site like we saw in sidney today. >> tom fuentes, the congress,

the chairman of the house homeland security committee spoke with me earlier about these radicalized terror threats being posed online. how do you combat against these online threats and also the inspiration for these individuals to go ahead and engage in these terror activities? >> well, the problem, wolf, that makes it so hard to combat this is, the online threats, and at least the inspiration to do the online attacks, aren't specific to date and time and city. they don't provide those details. they just say to everybody that received these messages around the world, especially in western countries, go do it. and they give them a variety of different ways, whether it's run somebody over with a car or stab them or take a hatchet, shoot them, whatever the methodology might be. and that's what makes it so difficult. you don't have enough specifics to stop it, because you don't know when and where it's going to happen. >> bob baer, do these lone

wolves, if you will, they eastern out there, a lot of u.s. officials are worried about right now are these copy cat attacks. how worried should they be? >> i think they should be very worried. clearly, wolf, this guy in sidney was a lunatic. he could have done a lot more damage, especially if he had explosives and automatic weapons. what the police are worried about is somebody like the chechen in boston, who did understand bombs, comes back and takes that lethalness and applies it to a lone wolf attack. i'm still worried about people coming paback from syria. there's nothing like being in combat to get people trained enough to launch an attack in the united states. the french and the british, all western europeans, can come into this country without visas. and unless the fbi has a heads

up, there's not much they can do. >> peter bergen, you spent a lot of time studying terror threats to the united states. how worried should the u.s. be about a copy cat attack? >> i think the concern that we see are people becoming self-radicalized in countries that we live in. in the case of syria, 12 americans have gone to join can al qaeda. two of them are dead. people go there, they don't know how to fight. but people are self-radicalizing, and we've seep that in canada and australia, and to some extent in the united states. at the end of the day, even that suspect that big an issue. there is probably going to be a lone wolf and there's a natural ceiling to what a lone wolf can

be. we saw in boston, two lone wolves kill four people. that was a tragedy, but it wasn't a catastrophe like 9/11 was. >> guys, unfortunately, we have to leave it there. we'll continue this conversation certainly tomorrow. lots more to appreciate and understand. just ahead, massive marches protesting the killing of unrmed african-american men. now new documents are raising questions about the grand jury testimony in the michael brown case in ferguson, missouri. plus, jeb bush acting more and more like a presidential candidate. we have details of what he's now doing that's fueling new questions about a possible run to the white house. we did it. we did it! ♪ it is official, we gave the people what they wanted. the nation's strongest lte signal.

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massive protests nationwide against the police killings of unarmed black men, including michael brown, eric garner and tamir rice. new documents are raising serious questions about the grand jury testimony in the ferguson, missouri case. joining us, jeffrey toobin, the community activist john gaskin.

our cnn law enforcement analyst tom fuentes is back with us. jeffrey, the st. louis county prosecutor released more grand jury evidence over the weekend and revealed some testimony that was called into question. some witnesses admitted to lying. one wasn't even in ferguson during the shooting, had posted racist comments on social media the day before michael brown was shot. is this another black eye, as some critics are suggesting, for the prosecutor? >> certainly the prosecutor said at the beginning of the investigation that he was going to put absolutely everything before the grand jury, and this apparently was not placed before the grand jury. but even so, i don't think any of the larger questions of the case are affected by these documents. but it is something that the prosecutor said he was going to do and he didn't do. it's also just not -- but i

don't think it really would change anyone's view of the case one way or the other. >> why would the prosecutor, though, have called some of these witnesses if the prosecutors themselves had doubts about their credibility? >> well, this goes to the larger question of the entire approach to the grand jury here. usually, prosecutors use the grand jury to present the credible evidence that they believe will lead to an indictment. it's usually a fairly narrow tailored presentation. what the prosecutor here did was, i'm going to put everything in front of the grand jury, and let them decide. and there was some evidence, obviously, that the prosecutor and his team thought was not credible. usually prosecutors say, i'm only going to put what we regard as credible before the grand jury. >> another part of the evidence, tom fuentes, involved dorian

johnson, as you know, he was there on the street with michael brown. a lot of the people that questioned the reliability, raised questions about his reliability, but his testimony seemed to be consistent throughout. >> it appears so. he's been very controversial, the only eyewitness to what happened in the convenience store, besides the store clerk. he's the only eyewitness that was present when the altercation happened between michael brown and darren wilson at the squad car. by the time the shots are fired there, then we have more people taking notice in the nearby apartments and then watching and/or taking video, pictures of what was going on. so he is a key figure about what he has to say about what he saw, especially as it pertains to the forensic evidence is very important. >> while i have the time, i want you to react what we heard from the new york city police

commissioner. two police officers were attacked brutally over the weekend by some of these protesters. a very small number, but they were assaulted, and the -- bill de blasio called the assault, "fundamentally unacceptable." bill bratton, the police commissioner, was really angry. this is another side of the story, isn't it? >> it sure is. you have many police officers thinking that the mayor de blasio threw them under the bus in terms of the garner grand jury investigation saying the cops were at fault. but the last thing they want to do is have the police on the street taking punches in the face, being kicked and beaten and all of that by hoodlums and hooligans. not by protesters. when these events happen at 2:00 or 3:00 in the morning, this is what the police department deals with on a nightly basis. the group of people that come

out that they've been drinking or doing drugs and they're on the street and they do bad things. this is not the peaceful protesters earlier in the evening, exercising their first amendment rights. that's what the police have to deal with, protect the protesters, ensure that their rights are enabling them to march. but then these hoodlums and hooligans get in the middle of that and they have to deal with that. they cannot allow their police officers to get beat up on the street. >> that's really an awful situation, too. john gaskin, i'm curious to get your reaction. over the weekend we saw the cleveland, ohio police demanding an apology after a cleveland wild receiver wore a receiver that said justice for tamir. do athletes have a responsibility? a lot of these investigations are ongoing. >> right.

well, you know, i call it sports a advocacy. we've seen it since muhammad ali, magic johnson, jackie robinson. in my opinion, i feel as though prominent african-american athletes have an opportunity to use their name, to use their position of power and influence to bring questions of race and other pivotal social issues into the height in this country. i don't think that player for the browns needs to apologize for anything. i believe the police union really has no need to comment on that. as an athlete, as an american, he has the right to lift his voice and make his grievances known, whether on or off the field. and i commend him for his courage and his bravely by making a stand on such a big issue in the state of ohio when you've had two major killings there recently. i think that's pivotal.

>> john, as you know, the protests have continued today. earlier we saw protesters chaining themselves to the entrance of the oakland police. they raised a flag with the faces of eric garner and michael brown on it. how long do you think these demonstrations will continue? >> i think they're going to continue and they're going to continue for possibly months until people see significant accountability and change. what i was most impressed with was this weekend. the peaceful protests. i xhenld them for putting a separation between them. i was impressed with how well things were organized and the fact that you had tens of thousands of people in both new york and in washington, d.c. that were able to be mobilized in such a short period of time. most of those marches and direct actions were planned, bringing people in from across the

country in a little over a week. and i think that's impressive. it speaks to the message many people were trying to send. african-americans and many activists that are speaking on this issue are not asking for special treatment of african-american men. they're not asking for african-american men to be held above the law. they're simply asking that young men of color are not tried and convicted on america's sidewalks and executed. they're asking for a thorough process and for accountability and justice in these situations. >> thanks very much. guys, thanks to you as well. just ahead, what you might expect from a presidential candidate. details of what jeb bush is now doing, sparking a whole new rouchbl speculation about a possible -- >> focus each day on getting stuff done. in this accident... because there was no accident.

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the former florida governor jeb bush gave the commencele speech at the university of south carolina. he did not say anything about a possible run but his actions may be speaking louder than his words. joining us, gloria borger and

our senior analyst, ron. gloria, jeb bush is releasing, what? 250,000 e-mails during his eight years as florida's governor. he is writing an ebook. he is going to south carolina and an early primary state. what does all of this say to you? >> i think it means, wolf, that he is more likely to run than not run. and i think what he is trying to do is be very transparent. presidential candidates write books about. they. they like to tell their own narrative before anybody else does. that's what the ebook is about. releasing the e-mail is about transparency and programs saying to other republicans, okay, i'm doing this. what about you folks? you have to be transparent, too. and i think he is sort of putting it all out there saying these are my ideas. these are my e-mail from when i was governor. now you decide. >> ron, could some of those

e-mails ruffle some feathers out there? >> it is hard to believe there won't be some out of 250,000 e-mails in the modern era that won't raise some hackles in the party. but with jeb bush, what is in front of the curtain is more significant. we know he supports a path way to citizenship. he supports the common core. a variety of other positions that were in tune with the party during his brother's presidency but have become much more controversial sense. and i think those will be the biggest issues. >> i've been told people close to him, he doesn't shy away from these fights. he understands that he may be out of touch with one wing of the republican party. and he said publicly last week, sometime you have to lose a primary in order to be true to yourself in a general election. and i think so he clearly understands that. but he is not shying away from the issues that ron is talking about. they're important to him.

they're at his core. clearly they were at the core of his governorship. >> you know, ron, i want to play a little clip of what the former florida governor said at the commencement vent today at the university of south carolina and columbia. listen to this. >> as i was preparing my remarks, i asked the chief adviser of all important things in the bush family, barbara bush, what i should speak about. and she thought about it briefly and. jeb, speak about ten minutes and then sit down and shut up. so that is going to be -- >> very cute line. remember his mother earlier didn't think a third bush should run for the white house. >> it seems like a lifetime ago. in the fall of 1994 i spent a week consequentially with george w. bush and jeb bush. and at that time more people thought of jeb than george w. as

a future presidential candidate but of course, george w. bush won. jeb bush didn't win until 1998. that put the older brother ahead on the track. i suspect in the tend family would rally around. more importantly is wham to the donor base, not only the traditional bush donor base but more managerial, somewhat more fiscally focused wing. do they rally behind him? he would need that to overcome the resist tanls to the more pop list elements. >> and from massachusetts, lots of talk. she could run. what are you hearing? >> i think i asked her ten times and she said she's not running ten times. so i don't believe she is running this time for the presidency. if hillary clinton runs. if hillary clinton doesn't run, i think all bets are off. leslie's warren doesn't particularly adhere to a lot of clinton's policies.

she will thinks she is too close to wall street. i don't think she will take on cleanse. shoulder, however, take on those issues that attack wall street. >> thanks very much. that's it for me. erin burnett "outfront" starts right now. "outfront," breaking news. new york city on high alert after a gunman pledging allegiance to isis holds 17 people hostage for 16 hours. a lone wolf in a store in the city. could it happen in the u.s. plus, a pennsylvania gunman suspected of killing six people today, seriously wounding another. and bill cosby's wife camille breaking her silence tonight. let's go "outfront." >> good evening to all of you. we begin "outfront" with the breaking news.