behalf of everyone at ac 360 and cnn. i'm tom foreman. wishing you all of the best and none of the worst in 2015. ♪ ♪ there is breaking news tonight on two big stories. on opposite side of the world. looking live now at indonesia's international airport. moments away ambulances are on stand by to ferry body recovered from the wreckage of air asia flight 8501. six bodies from the flight have been recovered so far. including one flight attendant. according to indonesia's search-and-rescue chief. we have the latest as the the tragic search goes on tonight. some 60 miles from the plane any last known location over the java sea. also live in new york's time square where tomorrow night, the world will be watching the new year's eve ball drop. the nypd stepping up security. this is "cnn tonight."

i am don lemon. thank you for joining us. how will police keep times square safe when they're at odds with the mayor literally turning their backs on him. a lot to got to tonight. begin with the latest on the crash of flight 8501. i want to begin with reporters in the region. and gary tuchman, and start with you. the latest on the grim search-and-recovery right now? >> don the search is more fichlgt itmore -- the search is horrifying. they have what they need to continue it. there are 40 planes and ships on the java sea. looking for the bodies of passengers. six bodies have been recovered including a flight attendant. they know that because she was wearing her flight attendant uniform. the problem right now is though you have very bad weather conditions. it is very cloudy. it is very foggy. i actually just got off a plane. i flew here from bali an indonesian island.

it was very hard to see. it was very windy. there is a lot of turbulence. you see what they're dealing with on the sea. what is very important to know this water is not more than 100 feet deep. it is very shallow. after covering lots of plane crashes over the years. nothing is never easy. this is one of the more stable situations. they know where the plane is and the water is not very deep. >> still as the you said. the weather will impact the search efforts. gary the question is some of the families of the passengers and the crew saw bodies being pulled out of the ocean on live television. how did that happen? >> what happened was. this can happen. is no one's fault. local tv in indonesia was showing the search and represents cue live. and it just so happened that the camera moved in. it was a body there. twa flight 800. the hotel where the families

gathered. they were in there watching on tv. a couple women fainted when they saw that. because they knew that the hope that their loved ones were alive was likely over when they saw the lifeless bodies pulled out of the water. just so sad. ultimately don, the families, told as early as today or tomorrow, the families will be moved out of here and taken to the nearby hospital where the body will be brought when they're recovered from the scene. >> that was my next question. so they're being held here. but they're getting information from where the body are being recovered. how, explain to us the flow of information. how does if it happen? they go out. the rescuers searchers go out. they come back and get information. how does this happen? don, if you asked me a question. a little hard for me to hear. can you repeat that again? >> where you are, families are there. searchers go out. they get information. they get body what have you. how does the flow of information

happen? how does the, how do the families get information where you are? stow what is happening is officials go into the family room. give them updates whenever the family members want it. the question that i just asked the airport manager, a short time ago, is what is the main thing you're hearing from the family members right now. the main thing over and over is bring me back the body of my loved one. do an of them still hold out hope that perhaps they got a life preserver and floement addated away and they're alive. they don't think that. they want to see the bodies of their loved ones. >> will riply, the u.s. ship has arrived, another is prepared. what is the latest you are hearing from where you are in beijing? >> yeah, the u.s. joining the multinational effort now to recover the people who were on board that plane and continue the search also for -- for the debris and whatnot.

the chinese navy and air force, committed resources. but i wanted to touch on something that you brought up earlier, don. there is a huge level of interest in the story around asia. this is front-page news on all of the papers. also been covered extensively on cnn but a lot of regional knelt works. one of the regional networks that broadcasts all over asia including here in china, malaysia australia, japan, the philippines, they were simulcasting the local signal from tv in indonesia. potentially the graphic live images of bodies went out to a number of countries, potentially millions of viewers, certainly here in china where there are a lot of mh-370 families following this closely. very upsetting to see that kind of thing. >> you have been speaking with members of the mh-370 fame tletz there, what are they telling you? -- families there, what are they telling you? >> well it is a very difficult time. this whole week has been draw matic for them in many ways. it almost brought them back

don, to the day when when flight 370 disappeared. i was sitting down yesterday with steven whang, whose mother was on the plane. and he was telling me that he was hoping for a miracle. he was hoping that perhaps some people in the air asia flight might be alive. because almost 10 months later, he believes his mother may be alive. he hasn't been able to speak her name. because he says she is not a victim. i can't accept she is a victim until i have proof. and it was during our interview, don, that we learned that, that the body were being recovered from the airasia crash. yet that son that i spoke with and so many others in this part of the world still don't hatch any answers about flight 370. >> gary tuchman, will riply. thank you very much. i want to bring in an oceanographer at university of north wales in sydney and cnn safety analyst and author of "malaysia airlines flight 370. "the reason i asked gary the question about floep of inw of information.

the family saw that on television. is there a difference now since that happened. getting the information to them. they have got to beep careful? >> they do. he pointed out real well. there wasn't an intent with what happened here. there wasn't some kind of media mongor that was trying to get this on ear. it happens. in an accident scene. all most impossible to film an accident scene without having something like that. >> have to have sensitivity. eric you are an oceanographer. tell us about this area of the java sea and walterter conditions there. >> the java sea where the search is going on it is shallow. shallower than most of the great lakes, actually. an inland sea. 20,000 years ago during the ice age. this was forest. it is really different environment from where, for instance the search of mh-370 has been. also different from air france and atlantic ocean went down. but the problem that the search team is now facing is the monsoon season. this plane couldn't have gone

down in a worse time of year all most. there is really big wind. there is choppy waves. the shallow seas are notorious for just comply katemri complicated waves and steep crest. really hard to work in. the other thing. the rain brings down the sentiment. the sentiment floods into the ocean. makes it murky. muddy. hard to see. to it's not very clear water anymore. makes it much more difficult to work in this water. >> eric, it is it isn't a remote area. heavy shipping. traffic. happens there. fishing. many people live nearby. live nearby on the coast. what impact if any, will this have on the search and the scatter of this debris? probably the biggest impact. we will see a lot of debris pulled out of the ocean. turns out not to be of the plane. because this is a filthy part of the ocean. like many other of the these

enclosed seas there is not really a current flushing things out. plastic, fishing nets. all of the other thing that are man made and that go into the ocean. theylinger around for months to years. and i think what we will see, there is so much rubbish, going to be collected out of the ocean. and more often not than yes it will be from the plane. number of victims has grown to six now. latest three victims retrieved from the sea are two men. one female flight attendant. yesterday. three body. two adults. two adult females. one of them a teen boy had been recovered. so the question everybody's mind is how, the victims, from from what will we learn from the victims? will we learn about what possible impact the plane had when it hit the ocean. one question i always get. were the victims aware of what was going on. if something happened in the air. were they aware of what happened. if they were conscious, if they

were not con sthus. we talked about that. mh-370. >> you can tell if they were conscious when they hit the watter? >> yes. want to warn people. there are people. family members who want to know this information. there are those that don't. what i would look to dupe is talk about what we do to determine if they were conscious or not, whether they knew what was happening. on the accident scene, when the bodies are retrieved. one of the first things we do is check for seawater in the lungs. and so when weep do that. it will give us clues. if there is seawater in the lungs it means they may have ingested the water after they hit the water. that would tell thals wereus that they were conscious. >> 160 passengers on board. only six found. does that say anything? >> it does say a lot. it is significant to know there was impact at the point. whether it was broken off in the air or hit the ground. because they're not finding more quickly. what that tells me there was a large part of that aircraft that went down and took the debris with it. it's not typical to see it this

way. it is typical to see a lot of debris. we're not seeing that. >> stand by gentlemen. a lot more ahead on the crash of flight 8501. coming up searchers recover pieces of the plane. will the wreckage tell what's happened exactly and why? also the nypd steps up security in times square ahead of new year's eve and under the threat of more protests over police tactics. will it be a happy, safe new year? narrator: these are the tennis shoes skater kid: whoa narrator: that got torture tested by teenagers and cried out for help. from the surprised designers. who came to the rescue with a brilliant fix male designer: i love it narrator: which created thousands of new customers for the tennis shoes that got torture tested by teenagers. the internet of everything is changing manufacturing. is your network ready? [ narrator ] mama sherman and the legion of super fans. wow! [ narrator

] on a mission to get richard to his campbell's chunky soup. it's new chunky beer-n-cheese with beef and bacon soup. i love it. and mama loves you. ♪ ♪ the holiday season is here, which means it's time for the volkswagen sign-then-drive event. for practically just your signature, you could drive home for the holidays in a german-engineered volkswagen. like the sporty, advanced new jetta... and the 2015 motor trend car of the year all-new golf. if you're wishing for a new volkswagen this season... just about all you need is a finely tuned... pen. hurry in to the sign then drive event and get a five-hundred dollar new year's bonus on select new volkswagen models. offer ends january 2nd.

you don't think much about it... you never dwell on how it was made... it's just a blanket after all... but when everything else has been lost, the comfort it provides is immeasurable. the america red cross brings hope and help to people in need every 8 minutes every day. so this season give something that means something. support us at redcross.org

>> mid morning wednesday in the java sea. search under way for victims and wreckage. rescuers have recovered at least six of the 162 people on board.

debris recovered so far may offer clues as to what brought the jet down. my experts are here with me now. a former inspector general for department of transportation now an attorney for victims of transportation accidents. mike boyd is an aviation consultant president of the boyd group. and an a 330 pilot and author of "flight for safety." and a, back with us as well here. mary the first of the debris was spotted 60 miles from the plane's last known location. what does the distance tell us? >> it tells us the plane did travel some after the last communication, last radar hit. but not very far. pretty well contained. so whatever happened. whether an aerodynamic stall or mechanical issue it was pretty quick, happened quickly after the last radar contact, last communication. there would be some drift in the days on the ocean. probably not quite that much. pretty well contained and a very

sudden event >> david, you wrote the book on how planes crash. what key pieces of wreckage do rescuers look at or need to find to know exactly what really happened? >> the changes through out the investigation. right now, to look at it this way, the bodies really are, the key piece of investigative material to gather information about it. so as the bodies are retracted, where they are, the condition that they're in is going to give a lot of clues. and that is the first thing you deal with. the next thing down of course look for the black boxes. document where everything is so you know where the flow is. >> first bodies. wreckage. black boxages. document the rest. >> carlene, you are a pilot. from everything we know about the debris there there any clues if the plane broke up mid flight, stalled or what may have happened to the plane? >> i think that the plane stalled. they flew into a thunderstorm.

the planes are not designed to fly into a thunderstorm. we do stall training. if you think 3,000 per foot updrafts. wind at altitudes could be 150 knots. their max service ceiling is at 35,000 feet. they were 38,000 feet 40 minutes into the flight. aircraft would have been heavy. there is not a lot of merging up there, maybe 10 15 knots. so even the smallest turn could have caused them a problem. so you know the problem was -- getting into that thunderstorm. avoidance was the only way to save that. >> you are an a-330 pilot. a bigger version of the plane that went down correct? >> correct. more or less yeah. >> all right. we have been talking about the black boxes. you heard david mention them a moment ago. where are the black boxes in particular to this type of plane? what information will be learned from these boxes? >> well they're in the tail.

if the plane is pretty much largely intact as david mentions the few number of body suggests the fuselage might still be intact. the divers can go down and actually get them. they they will continue to retrieve the bodies. but they would be in the tail. and in a plane this new, a 6-year-old plane, what's good about the black box is that it will have lots of parameters. parameter on a black box is a piece of data. if there is something on the plane you can have a lead from a wire electrical lead and you can collect that information in the flight data recorder, you will have it. you will have everything. airspeed. position of every flight control. surface. you know airspeed. attitude. of the plane. nose up. nose down. just literally every control surface on there. and then the kook pit-- cockpit voice recordings. sound, clicks, things going wrong.

hail. windshield. many time had to hire acoustic experts to tell us the meaning of every click and sound in the cockpit. a wement ofalth of information. very important. >> you are saying the debris is indicating a textbook crash. the faa issued a warning pilots about a certain part of the a-320. what does that mean? >> an air worthiness directive, regarding the pito tube. if it was something sthalt was major and -- that was major and life threating it would be more than an air worthiness directive. 3,900 built. 3,500 flying. 3,200 are on order. in terms tough the integrity of this as an airplane that has been proven. the realer to what was specific to this airplane and flight. >> pito tube indicate speed? >> yes. the air comes in. tells what the pressure of the

air is and velocity of the air. >> what might have been the issue? >> mike brought up a good point about air worthiness directives. believe what he is referring to is the indicator of a tach, air worthiness directive, on this aircraft. number 216, 320-216. 216 it did not apply to. 214 and 217. >> okay. mike, when weep get on a plane. we hear about flotation devices, is that a false sense of security. we have had so many the air crashes that we have had, have had so many people on them. we haven't had more this year. just more people have died. do those provide passengers really with a false sense of security? >> i don't think there is a false sense of security. when you get in a big metal tube no matter what it is you are levitating yourself. i've don't know of an incident where we had an airplane of any size like this where everyone has been in their jackets and gotten off the airplane.

inflated jackets after they got off. i don't know. it is something that is a necessary thing. in terms of this being something, where people will be calm and think just a swim in the ocean. no, a serious thing. but one of the things issues where it is incremental. when the airplane hits the ground at 250 knots, i don't care what you are wearing you are not going to get out alive. >> lots more to get to tonight. loss of flight 8501 having an emotional impact on the families who lost loved ones in a plane, malaysia airline, flight 370. they still don't know what happened to the jet. speak to the husband of a passenger. the difficult next steps, the air asia families must face now that the bodies are being recovered. so you're looking for a loan? how's your credit? i know i have an 810 fico score, thanks to the tools and help on experian.com. and your big idea is hot dogs shaped like hamburgers? nope. hamburgers shaped like hot dogs. that's not really in our wheelhouse...

you don't put it in a wheelhouse. you put it in your mouth. get your credit swagger on. become a member of experian credit tracker and find out your fico score powered by experian. fico scores are used in 90% of credit decisions. at ancestry, we call it a hint.. our little leaf that helps guide you through the past. simply type in a name and you're taken on a journey. a journey that crosses generations. and continents. all to tell the most amazing story. yours. discover your story. start searching for free now at ancestry.com

the head of air asia says his heart is filled with sadness for the families. but he hopes that they can now find some closure at least. as we all know the families of those on board another plane, malaysia airlines 370 don't know what happened to their loved ones nearly ten months after the jet disappeared. and a woman on flight 370. her husband now joins me, via skype from india. thank you, how are you? >> all right. thank you for having me this morning. it's morning here in india. >> yeah. you know we haven't spoken to you in some months. i am wondering when you heard about 8501 what was your reaction? >> i was, i was in shock.

i was surprised. it brought back the whole experience of the last eight, nine months in a flash. and just left wondering how much time did this -- is this one going to take until we find out what really happened. and like the first time i understand i was watching television almost nonstop. just keeping track. hoping this will come to a swift end. one way or another. any which way it was a tragedy. >> how do you think airasia is handling this in comparison to malaysian airlines? >> on the face of it it seems that -- they're better organized. i think they are perhaps lucky that they had a better idea of exactly where they lost it.

and it wasn't surrounded subsequently by any intrigue there was almost reasonable clarity. i think they managed their communication process well. it took three days to locate the plane and the passengers. yeah. >> i understand you went few your wife's family. for christmas. how are they doing? i have been there a little before christmas. actually early december. everybody is accepting things the way they are. including the fact they don't have answers yet.

so it's just good to stay in touch. meet face to face. and whenever possible. and to -- to know that -- that -- life must go on. >> yeah. thank you. we appreciate you coming on. >> thank you. >> thank you. >> i want to bring back an attorney for victims of transportation accidents. mary do you think the families of flight mh 370 will learn more in 2015? >> well i certainly hope so. that's everyone's hope. it is very difficult without additional information. and of course the airline has pretty much all but stopped giving them information. helping them do anything at all. so unless and until they resume the search and find more information and find the plane. they feel stymied and feel they have just. their help and information ended. >> listen it is anguish for the families of flight 8501 today.

i want you to take a listen to one heartbroken mother. >> translator: when they explained not only did they find debris but also found body floating in the water, everyone became hysterical. especially the mothers. one mother even blacked out. >> huh. >> sadly some of the families were watching tell strigs whenevision when the body were first shown. it wasn't anyone's fault. they have got to be really careful about sensitivity during the search? >> will they do. of course those were not the searchers that were showing that. and the families i don't think, what people realize. they hang on every word from the news. what what you're reporting, what you're telling them is so very important. particularly depending on what country they are in. for example for 370, some people had no source of information other than the news. they really hung on it. at some points in one country in particular cnn was blacked out.

it is very important for them to get the news. while it is terribly tragic that they did it. families really want information. and they they scarcely look away from the news because that's where they're getting it. and the truth and the facts and information every morsel is what they want. so it was unfortunate, but that's not going to stop them from trying to seek every piece of fact that they can have. >> yeah. the ceo of airasia spoke abut cantaloupe sure to closure today. here's what he said. >> the only slight benefit is that for the people there is some closure. this is a scar with me for the rest of my life. it doesn't change anything. very little. there is at laeseast some closure. not knowing what happened. holding out hope. >> ceo tony fernandez. mary, we know six body have been recovered so far. it's important.

we discussed. mh-370. the families want few receive the remains of their loved ones. it is really important to them. >> it is. there is a built of a misconception though about closure. i am sure the ceo must have meant well. there is no such thing for family. families have told me many times that is a word that they actually dent likeon't like. they've never get closure. what they learn to do over time it takes a lot of time, they learn to live with the difference. they're'the family they were. now they are a family that lost a loved one in an air crash. they never come to closurement they learn to live with their new life. so i i never use that word. but, that being put that aside for a moment. having their loved ones back. anything. i have families that have have gotten nothing more than ape very small fragment of a bone. or even a handbag that might have been found later. those things become so very very valuable. because it's connection with their loved one in their last

moments on this earth. >> i don't know if they're thinking abut this now. do they have any legal recourse? >> they have legal recourse. have to say, terrible for a lawyer to say this. aviation internationally, is antiquated. aviation laws are based or r on your country law. handful of country's law in any crash. apply the law where you bought the ticket. where you are going. where you are from. the law around the globe is a patchwork. some countries have still cling to an old treaty called the warsaw treaty. decades old. it provides very little rights. and little compensation. others have signed the montreal accords. passengers seated side by side identical in all aspect of their life. one from one country. one from another. one might have a full plate full of rights and compensation. the other might have almost nothing. aviation by definition and by intention doesn't respect

national boundaries. and yet people are forced into these artificial categories of whose law applies. we really need to develop a more international basis for recompense for families of air crashes. >> learning from disaster. can investigators find clues that will help us prevent another air disaster. in my world, wall isn't a street... return on investment isn't the only return i'm looking forward to. for some every dollar is earned with sweat,

sacrifice, courage. which is why usaa is honored to help our members with everything from investing for retirement to saving for college. our commitment to current and former military members and their families is without equal. start investing with as little as fifty dollars. [vet] two yearly physicals down. martha and mildred are good to go. here's your invoice, ladies. a few stops later, and it looks like big ollie is on the mend. it might not seem that glamorous having an old pickup truck for an office... or filling your days looking down the south end of a heifer but...i wouldn't have it any other way. lo ok at that, i had my best month ever. and earned a shiny new office upgrade. i run on quickbooks. that's how i own it.

>> wreckage from the flight is being recovered. the investigation far from over. in fact it has just begun. back with me now, mary mike carlene, david. once all the wreckage is found and recovered, david, what's next. how do we get answers here? >> once it comes back inside. the accident investigator in charge is the person who controls everything as far as what goes in. what goes out. the briefings. everything is controlled through that investigator in charge. and so that's where the information goes to. that's where the parts are going to. they're all controlled. there is a chain of custody that has to be maintained. so there is no difference in that. so that when mary and wants to defend her clients. she needs to have chain of custody to know that part from here to here to here. so that's a lot of part, a lot of the investigation is just documentation. >> yeah not sure. wanted to ask you. don't remember if i got to it.

parry, where, where do the black boxes go, once naythey are recovered? >> well the nation that is responsible for the investigation will decide who is going to open them and download the information. in this case i would assume since it is an airbus that the french bea might be the agency that is tasked with doing that. but what is surprising once they do it it is pretty quick. cockpit voice recording is literally a recording and flight data recorder while hundred of parameters looks like a series of ekgs. prints out on long sheets. and then you decipher it. but my guess is probably the french or australians will do it. certainly, the ntsb would. they do it for lots of countries. >> from reading the research. you want to talk about weather here. you thing it was weather-related. and do you think there should be increased weather training? >> yeah you know -- certainly was weather based. difference between this flight and -- and air france 447 is

that those pilots were in the dark. they had the radar turned down. they didn't see the storm. these pilots saw the storm. the airline knew the storm was there. they that's why they moved the flight two hours ahead of schedule. we need to look at fatigue. what time were the pilots looking to take this flight. they had to be up at 3:00 in the morning. the captain just buried his brother two days before. so there is a lot of factors going into it. they saw the storm build. and while this was a very experienced crew. some times experience can get in the way. because you have seen it. they fly, like, fly through the storms all the time. they get away with it. they go around them. they get away with it. this was fast. quick. no storm is the same. this time it got them. i think probably what we need to really encourage, and i know -- my airline encourages this many u.s. carriers. not sure of the culture. ability to say this doesn't look good. i am getting out of here. i am turning back. and the turn back is what would

have saved the flight. once you got into the storm, there, i don't know of any, if any pilot could have gotten out of it in any aircraft. >> want to get mike. david, quickly? >> well what i was going to ask is pilot push. pilot push is a term that we use to say, why is the, why are they not turning back? and, there is pressures that unspoken. they're not written. but the pilot wants to complete the mission. this pilot push comes from all kind of directions. but it forces the pie lot to do things -- pie lotlot to do things subconsciously. >> wonder how pilots are there. autopilot. training. how often are you thinking anything can happen at any moment. or a since of security. >> do you study martial arts at all? >> i did when i was younger. >> in that, it its abut the relaxed muscle. faster going from relaxed state to hard i you are tense all the time. that happens. same thing in the cockpit.

if you are tense, you are not ready for the unexpected. >> mike. let's talk about the asia air. budget. budget airlines. of until now, this accident this, this air lynn hadline had a stellar record. some are calling into question whether, whether the lower prices on the airlines played into this. what can you tell us about the safety standard of the growing airlines? >> every airline is different. let's talk air asia the system per say. if you take a look at just the way this has been handled in terms of how this never had a crash before. but you take a look at huh they handled this. smooth direct no gaps of information. mr. fer noon dean fernandez is there. and people saying they're budget. must be cutting corners. i don't buy that. no in kaegs of that. usually that is a big catch all for well they dent charge

enough. -- no indication of that. usually that is a big quach all for well they didn't charge enough. this one. everything we have seen with hiss air lynn the way tony fernandez does business you are dealing with a professionally run organization. >> let's talk about the way tony fernandez responded. my heart is filled with sadness for all the families involved in 8501. on behalf of air asia my condolences. on top of his nonstop tweeting the logo. website change from bright red to gray how do you think air asia has handled this disaster from a crisis communications perspective? were they prepared? >> very well. no holes. there were a lot of holes. malaysia 370, keystone kops. that was awful from the get-go that was awful. even afterwards. malaysian looked like a pack of amateurs. this looks like professionals who have concern about the

feelings of the people involved. including the employees. so i think what they have done is right. a very professionally well thought out airline. i, i don't, i don't see a problem with air asia here except for the crash itself. >> can you give us five second please? >> there was a great point about not being able to not being able to follow up on on i can't do it in five second. >> what's your point. >> that's all right. we're good. >> keep it on schedule. >> thank you very much. i appreciate it. carlene, mike mary david. when we come right back. a million people will flock to the crossroad of the world. times square to see the ball drop on new year's eve. but this year the nypd faces an extra security challenge. more on that next. [ male announcer ] this is the cat that drank the milk... [ meows ] ...and let in the dog that woke the man who drove to the control room [ woman ] driverless mode engaged. find parking space. [ woman ] parking space found. [ male announcer ] ...that secured the data that directed the turbines that powered the farm

that made the milk that went to the store that reminded the man to buy the milk that was poured by the girl who loved the cat. [ meows ] the internet of everything is changing everything. cisco. tomorrow starts here. [ narrator ] mama sherman and the legion of super fans. wow! [ narrator ] on a mission to get richard to his campbell's chunky soup. it's new chunky beer-n-cheese with beef and bacon soup. i love it. and mama loves you. ♪ ♪

[ male announcer ] when john huntsman was diagnosed with cancer, he didn't just vow to beat it. i vowed to eradicate it from the earth. so he founded huntsman cancer institute. ♪ ♪ everything about it would be different. ♪ ♪ it would feel different. ♪ ♪ look different. and fight cancer in new and different ways. with the largest genetic database on earth that combines 300 years of family histories with health records

to treat, predict and in many cases, prevent, cancer. [ huntsman ] we made it welcoming and warm with a focus on beauty serenity and getting on with life. [ male announcer ] huntsman cancer institute is the only cancer hospital in the world designed by a patient, with the vital understanding that cancer moves fast. and we have to move faster. to learn more or support the cause, go to huntsmancancer.org. ♪ ♪ don't just visit new york. visit tripadvisor new york. tripadvisor not only has millions of real traveler's reviews and opinions but checks hundreds of websites, so people can get the best hotel prices. to plan, compare & book the perfect trip. visit tripadvisor.com today.

>> welcome back. breaking news to report. this is what "the wall street journal" is reporting that indonesia now has a sonar image of an object on the ocean floor that they believe might be, i repeat that might be the body of the flight -- of that plane.

no word on when that object may be recovered. david, what it says, upstate. search-and-recovery search-and-recovery, sonar image appears to show aircraft upside down on the ocean floor. now cnn is just confirming that hearing from producers. what does that tell you? >> significant in that it appears to say the aircraft is intact on the bottom of the ocean floor. if we tie that into the fact that the slide which is also used as a raft was on was above that above the aircraft and floating. there may have been some things go on with the aircraft that we hadn't anticipated at all in that it didn't fall and crash into one spot. if it is whole that means there was an attempt to land the aircraft or ditch the aircraft. >> we talked earlier about the body you said whether people knew or not. if they if they were conscious or not when the plane upon impact. so if you are, if there is a sizable piece of the plane on the ocean floor -- it doesn't

indicate survivors or anything? >> it doesn't indicate survivors. it does indicate there wasn't anything significant or catastrophic in the air. if it would have. we were talking turbulence before. and talking things that would have stalled the aircraft and things like that. if the aircraft had stalled. in unrecoverable position it would have crashed into the, and broken into pieces. >> it doesn't indicate it stalled? >> no. >> what does it indicate? it is intact? what does it indicate? >> it indicates it may have stalled. a recoverable stall. able to get the air baktck over the air of the wings, create lift. and control the aircraft. make an attempt at dichgtching the aircraft. not the potomac river, the ocean. very rarely are ditchings in that condition successful. >> does that lean any way or another to to pilot error? or human error? >> too early at this point, don.

if that air craft is intact and he did in fact suffer a hard stall or deep stall and was able to recover to that pin the and keep that fuselage together we are talking about a heroic act. >> you know what is interesting to me? when we talked370. probably on the bottom of the ocean floor. people were asking is it intact. everyone seemed to think that a plane that size in the ocean, would break up. upon impact. even if it, you said not placid not like the hudson. is that surprising to you? >> it know it that surprising to me. i have been to the airbus factory, during the airbus 380 certification we were part of. engines are designed to come off. some of the ditching we had before. the engine would catch and spin the aircraft into a cart wheel. since that time the engines are designed to barack offreak off. the bottom of the fuselage

designed it is a boat if it is correctly landed. there are variables there. i wouldn't anticipate an easy thing to do. >> the search-and-recovery has found a location of the plane. that means they found the location of the plane. location of the plane using sonar technology. is at the bottom of the java sea. at the moment they don't know if it is one piece or broken up. they are seeing obviously a big piece of the plane. at the moment they don't know. one piece or broken up. and, the person that -- who we spoke to here at cnn said from cnn spoke to them said he could not confirm the report that the plane is turned upside down. "the wall street journal" is saying it is turned upside down. we cannot say it is turned upside down. we have not confirmed that. if it is one large piece. how do they lift this thing? >> mostly with balloons. like balloon type thing. remember when they were trying to raise some ships and turn them back over after they had

run around. they put, bladders underneath them pump e there muss amounts of air into it. enormous amount of air into it. lift it that way. we are getting ahead of ourselves. it may bethe aircraft may not have to come out of there. >> first thing they will do. they want body? >> yes you treat the body themselves first. mostly for, out of due respect for them. >> stand by. we'll be right back with more. don't go anywhere. you don't think much about it... you never dwell on how it was made... it's just a blanket after all... but when everything else has been lost, the comfort it provides is immeasurable. the america red cross brings hope and help to people in need every 8 minutes every day.

so this season give something that means something. support us at redcross.org

don lemon here with breaking news here on cnn. flight 8501. indonesia has found the location of the airplane. it is shown in a sonar image to be at the bottom of the java sea. no word yet on when the object might be recovered. also, cnn speaking to a representative says they dent know if the plane was, could not confirm whether it was intact.

they found large pieces of the plane, but big enough for them to see on sonar. and also -- "the wall street journal" is reporting that it was upside down. the official could not confirm that with us. joining us now, an aviation expert and author of "malaysia airlines flight 370" and "why planes crash." this information that we are getting now -- it is true. we don't know. we can't confirm whether it is upside down. but sizable pieces or at lest a sizable piece of the plane will definitely help in the investigation and, quite quickly i would imagine. >> absolutely. we'll know a lot. within a short period of time. hopefully the tail section of the aircraft is what they're looking at. because that tail section is where the black boxes are. so after taking care of the, the victims of the accident. that's the next thing that they'll do. maybe concurrently. there are two teams. different skill set for both of the things. >> uh-huh. this is the very harsh question. but, if it is a, if it is intact. one would assume that they're,

there may be -- passengers still, still -- there. >> in flight 447. there were still large sections that had passengers in the aircraft at the bottom of the ocean. >> because the, so far there have only been six out of the 162. >> correct. >> passengers on board. people on board all. up ayes. right. i would thing if it did break up into a lot of pieces there would be more people that they have found amount this point. so. >> as we were discussing this last night. we were talking about. you, i, richard qwest. talking about the speed at which we get information here. and, you know with with social media and, 24-hour news one would thing it is a long time. this is not actually a long time to actually find. debris. and, passengers. >> yes, with social media. as quickly as we get information. it is a double edged sword. as an accident investigator. one of the main things you have as a resource ties make sure you

are controlling when the information gets out. when it doesn't. so there is no misleading or unnecessary information out to the wrong places. constantly weighing that as inspector in charge or investigator in charge. >> i need to apologize. we were going to do a story on nypd coming up new year's eve celebration, if the city would be safe, kidding theconsidering the mayor and police department. we'll stick with the breaking news. you've won't get the segment this evening. stay with cnn. sure reporting on it throughout the day tomorrow. of course anderson and kathy will be in times square monitoring all of that. again, breaking news tonight -- big section of the plane, cnn confirmed, has been found has shown up on sonar. the information we have. "the wall street journal" is now reporting that section of the plane, apares to be intact -- appears to be intact to them their reporting, and it is upside down. again, our reporting, the plane, a large section or either intavenlgt butin intact. we don't know itch it is upside

down. joining me now, david souci, aviation expert with us here. this is as we were talking. this is quite fast. >> it is very fast. i am really pleased how it has come together. a great example of the great leadership that started with tony fernandez. propagated through the investigation. he didn't get in the way. he didn't hold information. he simply went through it. we heard it said before that her reaction to this is almost that of -- jealousy. because she wishes that she had this information. that that information was available to her. but she can rest assured that what happened in this investigation was a result of what happened in mh-370. everybody worked together. and he and the entire international aviation community worked together to make the next accident more smooth. smoother. and it is. it is running smoother. >> yeah you have had a long day at cnn. >> yes. >> that's okay.

okay. doing a great job here. >> thank you. >> but again. we will update our viewers on the breaking news. stand by david souci. stand by everyone. >> announcer: this is "cnn breaking news." >> it is 11:00 p.m. on the east coast. thank you for joining us. i'm don lemon. we have breaking news on flight 8501. indonesia found the location of the plane. it is at the bottom of the java sea. shown on a sonar image. officials cannot confirm reports that the plane is upside down. joining me to talk about all this cnn safety analyst, david souci. david, you have been with us all day here on cnn. when you and i last spoke, it was, last night, late last night, close to midnight there had really nothing had been found. an hour after we left they started getting debris. they were 95% sure it was debris from the plane. here we are, almost 24 hours after you and i spoke last night. and