>> freeman tells dalton you've got to get the heck up out of here. >> scott joined espn in 1993 his last appearance on "sportscenter" was back in june. may he rest in peace. that's it for "the lead." i'm jake tapper. i turn you over to wolf blitzer in "the situation room." happening now, desperate hunt as searchers prepare to go out after days of rough weather looking for bodies and wreckage from airasia flight 8501. there are now new questions about why the airliner took off at all on its final flight. are other aircraft at risk? north korea fires back. the hardline regime response harshly after the u.s. accuses it of a massive cyber attack. and sole survivor a 7-year-old girl somehow lives through the small plane crash that kills her family and she walks through the freezing woods for help. we have new details. i'm wolf blitzer. you're in "the situation room."

with dawn about to break off the coast of indonesia, search teams preparing to resume the hunt for bodies and wreckage from airasia flight 8501. it's been more than a week now since the airliner plunged into the java sea and rough weather still is plaguing the recovery effort. sonar has located what may be several large pieces of wreckage from the plane. searchers may have just found the airliner's tail which holds the critical flight and data recorders. our correspondents our analysts our special guests are standing by with full coverage. i'll speak live in a few moments with the pentagon press secretary, rear admiral john kirby. but let's begin with cnn's gary tuchman who joins us live from surabaya in indonesia. gary? >> reporter: wolf the sun rises here in surabaya in about 15 minutes. with it another search day will begin. the hope is that divers are able to get under water in the java sea for a significant amount of

time it's believed the divers are needed there to get most of the passengers who are thought to still be strapped in their seats in the bottom of the java sea in the airplane. the hope is also the divers can find the black boxes. 125 of the 162 passengers are still missing. strong winds, heavy rain and big waves are hindering efforts to find victims and wreckage from airasia flight 8501. the air search was called off monday because of bad weather in the java sea. but there's been some progress in recovering the victims as the search enters its second week. three more bodies were found. helicopters used to lift them from the java sea onto ships. they're then flown to surabaya for indication. so far, 37 victims have been recovered. and 13 of them have been identified. an indonesian naval captain told reporters they may have found the tail of the plane which

includes the crucial black box information. if confirmed, it could be a major breakthrough for the accident investigation. authorities found five large objects they hope are parts of the aircraft. but at least one of those objects turned out to be a sunken ship. over the weekend, the indonesian navy sent special equipment to help divers. and the u.s. is assisting indonesia in the search effort. while the search continues, so does the investigation into why the plane went down with 162 people on board. indonesian officials said the airline was approved to fly the route four days a week but didn't have a license to fly on sunday, the day it disappeared. airasia indonesia says it will cooperate fully with the investigation. flights between the two cities have been suspended. right now, the weather conditions are good. but that's the way it's been for

much of the last eight days. good weather conditions in the morning and then things deteriorate in the afternoon. this weekend, divers were able to go under. the weather was half decent. when they went under, they described the visibility as "zero." they're hoping to get under and there's better visibility today. >> we'll get back to you, gary. as the search continues, the next phase picks up investigators in jakarta awaiting the wreckage and the black boxes. cnn's kyung lah is joining us now live from jakarta. what's the latest over there, kyung? >> reporter: wolf if where gary is is the heart of the search what's happening here in jakarta is looking into the cause, the why. and the reassembly of the plane. as the debris field is found, as those items are brought back here to indonesia, what will happen is that in a hangar, they will be reassembled. we are also hearing that there is another lab here that being a dna lab, to look into any body

parts -- people who may not be found whole. there are a couple of laboratories working here. but the crux of this investigation and knowing exactly why this plane went down will be finding the black boxes. if that tail section, if that is indeed the tail section, then the black boxes will be pulled up they'll be brought here. and then wolf the very very big question of exactly why airasia went down, perhaps that will be answered. >> once they find those two black boxes, the flight data recorder the voice recorder how long will it take experts over there, kyung, to actually decode what's in those two black boxes? >> reporter: we've heard from the indonesian version of the ntsb. what we know about the black boxes, there are two components the voice recorder and the data recorder. they're expecting data right away from the voice recorder.

why was there no distress call as soon as the plane turned? and that is the information that will come out right away. but as far as the data that's really where you get into the weeds. where you really understand what happened with the plane. was there some sort of a malfunction, was this weather? all the big questions, that could take days, perhaps even weeks. >> kyung lah on the scene for us. this is one of these flight data recorders that's orange. this is what they're looking for. they can find a lot of important information once they retrieve this so-called black box. should flight 8501 have taken off at all? serious questions are now being asked about airasia's compliance with regulations. there are questions as well about indonesia's track record when it comes to flight safety. let's bring in our aviation correspondent, rene marsh. she's looking into this part of the story. what are you finding out? >> reporter: indonesia's air safety record in a word is being called troubling. the problem, lax standards and

not enough regulation to manage the aircraft and the airspace itself. it's been reported the doomed airline pilots may not have received extensive weather reports prior to them taking off. if that is true it's almost like the pilots were essentially flying blind. a top indonesian aviation official did tell cnn today that the matter is under investigation but he insisted that the standard is for pilots to be briefed in advance on weather. now, the other part of concern, wolf airasia was not approved to fly the route from surabaya to singapore on the day that it went missing. so the question is, why was it allowed to take off? that is all under investigation. but safety experts say this all plays into a larger issue. it illustrates, they say, that indonesia has a significant safety problem with controlling its airspace. the faa in this country giving it a poor rating. >> it's a real serious question.

i guess the question that jumps out at me is there were just these issues -- issue after issue involving this specific airasia flight taking off, whether it was allowed to take off, did it take off earlier than scheduled, the airport -- what are they saying about all this? >>. >> reporter: over the weekend, we had another incident involving a different airasia flight. and it doesn't help matters because you have this investigation into this crash going on and then you had another incident this weekend. passengers on board this other flight said that they heard a loud bang when the plane was essentially taxiing, preparing to take off. they were understandably very spooked by this loud sound. they reported to local media that they thought that the engine had blown out. but the airline downplayed all that they downplayed the incident saying it was only an auxiliary unit that failed. that unit is used to power the engine. so they say the engines did not

fail. all that said once the issue was fixed, some of the passengers reportedly still refused to get on the plane. so the airline had to refund them this. you have this situation with 8501 and that crash, it's really spooking passengers in this recent case here as well. so it's bad p.r. for the airline in a nutshell. >> you can't blame the passengers for being spooked at all. thanks very much. u.s. warships u.s. aircraft are taking part a very active part in the airasia search. joining us to talk about that and more rear admiral john kirby, pentagon press secretary. admiral, thanks very much for coming in. >> thanks for having me. >> how is that search operation for the u.s. navy going right now? >> it's going pretty well. we have two ships on station right now. they're working very closely with the indonesian navy and the indonesian search-and-rescue operation.

"the uss sampson" has three helicopters, looking at the surface of the ocean to find debris. they have recovered some 15 bodies. and the "fort worth" is also there. she can go to shallower waters where other ships maybe can't get. she has a team of divers on board. and they are operating basically mini sonar devices that you tow behind their boats to see if we can't help map any of the surface -- >> are american sailors, divers actually going in the water? >> we have divers that are capable of doing that. but they have not done any diving. >> why is that? >> there's not been a need for it right now. the indonesian navy has divers. and they did try to get under water. the need just isn't there for our divers. but they're prepared and ready to do it if required. >> you have enough equipment, manpower in place right now to deal with this search? >> we are working very closely with the indonesians to meet the needs that they have, the requirements they have.

and based on what they've said they required and needed from us we've gotten -- >> have they asked for it? >> no. >> so this report that the indonesian navy -- admiral from the indonesian navy says they found what looks like the tail of the aircraft that contains these so-called black boxes, is that -- what do you know about that? >> we have seen those same reports and certainly hope it's true. but we don't have anything to confirm it is true. >> you haven't 100% confirmed that it is the tail? >> we have not. >> on the other hand you haven't seen any evidence it's not the tail? >> that's correct. >> you're still investigating that but collaboration with the indonesians is -- >> very good. very close. this is a navy we operate with all the time and we have a very close relationship with the indonesian navy. easy for us in that regard. >> where does this stand right now. you found 30, 40 bodies. but there's 162 people who were on board that aircraft. >> right. it's hard to say. we the "sampson" has recovered

15 of the 30 some-odd bodies. difficult to know where they are. possible many of them are still strapped into their seats. >> the dimpb rfference between the sampson and the fort worth? >> the sampson is designed for anti-warfare. the fort worth is the smallest ship we have in the nation in terms of combatants. and it's a new class. completely different type of ship, different capabilities. >> these black boxes, they have these pingers and they have batteries, they'll go for another 20 21 22 days before all of a sudden they go silent. >> that's right. >> but you have to be nearby in order to hear that ping right? >> you have to be somewhat close by. sound in the water can actually travel pretty far based on the temperature gradients and the currents. sound can go pretty far. it's not about being over top of it. it depends on the characteristics of the seas underneath the surface.

this tow fish that we're deploying off the "fort worth," they basically can do the job of a, the a tpo. >> you think they'll be able to detect the ping from the so-called black boxes -- >> the tow fish is capable of detecting the ping from the black boxes, absolutely. it's also a side-scan sonar. so it does two things. it can map the ocean floor to help us locate wreckage and find it. >> but so far, no pings detected? >> nothing. >> as far as you know? >> no. >> let's say there is a ping that's detected. who will be responsible for going down there and actually collecting these black boxes? will the u.s. navy do that the indonesians, somebody else? >> we certainly have salvage capability inside the u.s. navy. we're not anticipating a need for that. we want to be sure we're ready for it in case it comes. no request for that yet. that's something the indonesian

authorities will have to work out -- >> but the u.s. has better capabilities -- >> we certainly do -- >> if you hear a ping do you have to send divers down there -- >> depends on the depth of the water. it could be done mechanically with submersibles. the water is deep for diving. you can get divers to that depth that are properly equipped for it. but we have to see. we have to find this first and then we can -- >> i've been told it's very dangerous for divers to go in that water. there's a lot of stuff floating around there, diver hits any of that that could be -- >> and the underwater currents are very strong there. all that risk has to be mitigated and factored in. >> stand by. we have a lot more to discuss, including apparently some major new threats to u.s. troops in the al anbar province in iraq right now. stand by. much more to discuss with that including what's going on with north korea. the north koreans issuing some new threats. what's going on there? much more coming up.

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and the bodies from airasia flight 8501 we're back with rear admiral john kirby, the pentagon press secretary. let's wrap it up right now on this airasia situation. the investigation, the search continues. but right now, does it look promising? daylight is just starting over there there. does it look like something is going to happen within the next few hours? >> hard to say. but we find more debris every day, recovering bodies. all that's good progress and eventually will help investigators get to the bottom of this terrible tragedy. it's important for us to remember there's a lot of grieving families out there. >> 162 people on that plane. and there were about 3,000 of these similar airbus commercial aircraft flying around right now. everybody wants to know what brought that plane down to make sure they learn the lessons so none of the other planes go down either if there was a catastrophic mechanical failure or anything like that. that's why it's an important story. let's talk about another important story going on.

what's happening with those 320 mostly marines who are at the al assad air base in the al anbar province of iraq coming under fire from isis troops they were surrounded this area, how worried should their families be these american marines? >> it is true the al assad air base has received indirect fire in the last few weeks or so. it's infrequent. it's not multiple attacks every day. it's also important to remember the side of al asad air base. it's a big place. there are 320 marines there. there's also an infantry unit of iraqi soldiers there. so it's not just u.s. troops potentially at risk here. i don't want to minimize the fact that there is a risk of this indirect fire. but this kind of fire is what we call unguided and unobserved.

it's just random, sporadic. it's done no damage. it has hurt nobody. not trying to -- >> they could get lucky? >> yeah not saying there's not a risk here. but it's a low risk at this point. so it's not like isil has surrounded al asad. it's like the size of boulder, colorado. they come in launch a rocket or mortar and go away -- >> these isis troops took over the second largest city in iraq a few months ago, mosul, a city of about 2 million people a lot bigger than al asad air base. i don't want to minimize the risk here. when we deploy troops into harm's way, they know there's a risk they're taking. and force protection is a serious consideration we've applied to all the troops over there. they have the right to defend themselves. before we put those marines on that base we did a site survey to improve force protection measures to make it as safe as

possible. >> you have contingency plans to evacuate them if necessary? >> of course we do. >> how do you do that? >> i wouldn't get into it on national tv. but we have the ability to come to their aid if needed. >> these are noncombat troops even though potentially they're facing combat -- do they get combat pay? >> of course they do. >> they're noncombat troops but getting combat pay -- >> they're getting hazardous duty pay. they are getting extra special pay for the job they're doing in iraq. again, no one's saying there's no risk at all. we try to manage and mitigate that risk as best we can. >> let's talk about north korea for a moment. apparently the regime in pyongyang threatening retaliation to do something in the face of these expansive u.s. sanctions that have just been imposed. still 30,000 american troops along the demilitarized zone

between north and south korea. what's going on? >> there are a lot of troops on the korean peninsula. we're studious about our obligations to the treaty alliance with south korea. so there are troops there. there's no change in the force posture there on the peninsula. we're always very individual atlanta. vigilant. >> you haven't seen any new threats -- they're uttering words but they haven't done anything like getting ready for a new nuclear test or intercontinental ballistic missile test, anything to threaten south korea or japan -- >> no. >> it's just words right now. >> right now, it's rhetoric. we haven't seen any additional threat -- >> the u.s. government still believes north korea was in fact responsible for the cyber attack on sony pictures? >> yes, we do. >> you haven't backed away from that at all. >> no we haven't. >> despite the fact cyber experts are raising questions about that.

>> no change to our policy on that. >> more sanctions expected, do you think? >> i don't know. what these authorities give the president the ability to impose sanctions now -- as he made very clear, at a time and place of our choosing and the manner we want to do that. and i have no new announcements. >> rear admiral john kirby, thanks very much for joining us. the efforts to recover victims and wreckage from airasia flight 8501 have been hampered by rough weather. cnn's paula hancockss has experienced that firsthand on a search vessel in the java sea. paula joins us live. how dudid it go? >> reporter: wolf we've been hearing so much about these summer monsoons down here in indonesia and this adverse weather, officials telling us that is the biggest obstacle to finding the debris and the bodies. on sunday we had a chance to travel out with a search-and-rescue vessel and see how it hampers their search operations.

the deserted beaches of west borneo indonesia, show the horrors of the sea. more than 100 nautical miles to the search zone calm waters and sunshine soon disappear. we've been on the sea now for about four hours. we've got another three or four hours to go. and as you can see, the weather has started to close in. the closer we get to this crash location. but we're being told even though these waves are fairly high and it's a lot choppier than it was, this is still considered fairly good weather. this is better than it has been for some days. the crew looks for debris and bodies. one of them spots something. he's unsure what exactly. the captain calls it in, a larger ship in the area will investigate. this search-and-rescue boat has a specific mission, to deliver a pinger locater to help with the

vital search for the so-called black boxes. but the captain is nervous about the weather. i feel a heavy moral burden, he says i have a responsibility to keep those on board safe but it's so important to help find bodies and debris. larger ships can cope with these conditions, he says. but this is not a large ship. sector four of the search zone, the contact boat is in sight. time to hand over the equipment. easier said than done. one of the men who's in charge of that equipment was going to jump across but he doesn't want to. he said it's simply too dangerous. next job, transferring it will boat from which to operate the equipment, a task the crew struggles with until dark. before having to admit defeat at least for today. an exhausted crew returns to

land with only half the mission accomplished. that really is a huge international effort to find the plane and also its passengers. we know of course as you've said there are two u.s. ships on site at this point helping. there's also assets from australia, from france russia, malaysia, singapore, just to name a few. but of course without better weather, there really is a limit to what they can do. >> paula hancocks, good work. thanks very much. let's continue the conversation. joining us our aviation analyst, miles o'brien, our aviation analyst, former ntsb managing director peter goelz, tom fuentes, former fbi assistant director also joining us cnn analyst david gallo, the woods hull oceanographic institution. they may have found the suspected tail of the plane, according to reuters. how significant would that be given the fact that both the

flight data recorder the voice recorder the cockpit recorder apparently located on that tail? >> sure. it would be fantastic. but we begin every day with some encouragement. we end every day with so much uncertainty. it's a bad pattern. the thing that worries me is that a calmer surface means we can get people in and out of the water a little bit easier and safer and hold position easier. but the visibility if we're waiting for that to improve, it could be weeks or a month before the monsoonal visibility is better at that depth. >> what worries a lot of people david, the rear admiral said they haven't heard any pings at all yet. how worried should we be that no pings have been detected? >> i don't know about worried. but if we have to rely on visual that's why those black boxes are painted orange, so you can see them visually. then we're in serious trouble for the time being. if the pings are working, they have enough assets out there, it

comes down to a good plan so they don't miss any spots. but you're right we haven't heard anything that they've tried and failed or not listening. but they have equipment on board the "fort worth" that could locate the pings. >> let's hope they find and detect some of those pings right away. miles, it's shocking to me that this plane wasn't even authorized -- it's a commercial airliner wasn't even authorized to fly on that day yet it went off on that route. >> yeah, i think we have to be careful. i'm not sure it's a direct contributing cause of the accident. but in the grand context of this, it's important to look at this. if the airline wasn't getting approvals to fly, what other things was it omitting or not doing? were the weather reports being handled properly? was the minimum equipment -- the amount of equipment you need to fly an aircraft was that followed and adhered to? was the maintenance done properly? it raises questions. i don't think it necessarily had

to do with the crash directly. >> the indonesian ministry of transport are investigating right now what happened here. but potentially there could be criminal investigations if in fact this plane took off just because it took off even though it was licensed to fly on that day -- >> possibly. but you have the air traffic controls the ground controllers, the pilot all assuming that that administrative detail has been handled or they wouldn't be on the schedule to fly that day. the safety question i see is whether or not they weren't authorized because the sky was already crowded that day. if it wasn't too crowded of a sky, it's not an issue other than administrative and there would be a possible fine or sanctions against the airline by the government. or the insurance company liability could be affected. but i don't think it's a safety issue unless the sky was already too crowded. >> or unless as miles said they didn't get the information because it wasn't licensed to fly. tla they didn't get the indications

of bad weather that a pilot would have gotten in advance or maybe he wouldn't have taken off if he had gotten that information. >> it's a problem -- reuters is saying this airasia plane made what was described as an unbelievably steep climb before it crashed. what does that say to you? >> well first of all, you have to put it into context. we don't know where the radar was located, what kind of radar it was. when we remember flight 370, there were numerous reports that proved not to be completely accurate based on primary radar returns. we just don't know whether it's accurate or not. i'm not putting a lot of faith into that climb. but it could show that it hit some sort of tremendous weather pattern that forced it up. but unbelievably -- >> what does that say to you -- >> it could an incredible updraft. >> what does that mean?

>> an upswell of air. basically a thunderstorm is a giant heat engine. it's cycling air around. you could get 100-mile-an-hour updrafts. but remember this information on altitude is coming from the transponder. and that information comes from the altimeter information. there could have been a barometric pressure change. >> could icing, bad weather have damaged the engines of that aircraft? >> it could have. it's unlikely that that's the sole cause -- >> i thought these planes are build to withstand -- >> when you're going to fly into something like this you put on continuous ignition to make sure it doesn't stall out. if that failed or the pilot had not initiated that the engines could have flamed out. but when we talk about icing, there's another array of things to consider.

big, large pieces of hail could have damaged the aircraft. you could ice over some of the instruments which capture air speed and the altitude. you add it all together along with this upswell and you have a wild ride. >> david gallo, back to the search, it's murky down there. visibility some people say there's zero visibility down there. what do they need based on your experience that they don't have right now? >> ten feet would be great. the thing, wolf it's one thing to be able to identify these pieces and make sure they're bits of the plane. but if they have to try to lift them or penetrate into a fuselage to pull out bodies or the black boxes, i don't think they're going to do that. that's an incredibly dangerous situation to be in given the currents and what's floating around in the water. >> peter, do you think all of these a320s flying around need to be 23479ed because of what happened? there was another incident over the weekend, another plane had

loud noise, fortunately nothing happened. but should there be an inspection going on? >> no, it's premature. it's a workhorse, it has a good record. i don't think there's any reason to issue any kind of emergency inspection order because we don't know what happened yet. >> and there was no mayday. how do you explain that? >> something catastrophic happened. if there is a flaw in the aircraft, we need to know. there are a lot of these planes every day all over the world. the fact we're waiting on good weather and listening for a ping to find out this basic information is ridiculous. it's the 21st century. there are better ways to do it. >> what does it say to you there was no mayday? >> absolutely it was catastrophic. and we need to have some sort of way of continuously tracking these aircraft where we're not waiting for weeks, months perhaps years. >> hard to believe in this day and age they don't do that. stand by. we'll continue our investigation of wlees going on. also getting new details about a deadly plane crash here in the united states.

a 7-year-old little girl got out alive. she found help, all on her own. this is an incredible story. we have new information. also ahead, north korea lashing out at the united states. you'll hear what its leaders are now saying about the punishment president obama ordered for the cyber attack on sony pictures. so ally bank really has no hidden fees on savings accounts? that's right. it's just that i'm worried about you know "hidden things..." ok, why's that? no hidden fees from the bank where no branches equals great rates.

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we're following a truly remarkable survival story in western kentucky where a little 7-year-old girl not only lived through a plane crash that killed her parents, her sister and her cousin she walked nearly a mile through dense woods to get help. the wreckage is being moved to help investigators figure out what exactly happened. let's bring in cnn's martin savidge. he's near the crash site for us in kentucky. what have you learned, martin? >> reporter: wolf we're talking about 7-year-old sailor gutzler. and this is the door and the stairs that she walked up to to get help. let me show you over here. this is the remote part of kentucky and the woods from which she emerged after that horrible crash of her family

plane. how she got from there to here is nothing short of miraculous. behind this precious face lies the incredible strength and courage of a survivor. friday night, 7-year-old sailor gutzler freed herself from the upside-down wreckage of her family's plane, moving past the bodies of her mother father sister and cousin walking nearly a mile to larry wilkins home in remote western kentucky. >> well, she was bloody. her nose was bloody. i can't say for sure but i think maybe her lip might have been cut. her little legs was what really got your attention because they were striped up all over. >> reporter: from his back steps, wilkins shows me the way she came. even now, he still can't believe she made it shoeless wearing only shorts and short sleeves with temperatures in the 30s. >> when you consider what she just walked through and she had just seen her parents and her sister and her cousin all three

were dead was amazing. >> reporter: i decided to backtrack the way she came. pretty quickly i find the going is tough, downed tree limbs everywhere. the brush is incredibly dense and overgrown, branches snag and grab as you move while needle-like thorns tear at your clothes. even in broad daylight, the potential fitpitfalls are everywhere. steep and slippery slopes, ditches and pools of water. the brush swallows you quickly leaving you disoriented and blocking the view of any landmarks. as i struggle i constantly remind myself, i was ready for this. how could an injured, traumatized and frightened 7-year-old make her way in the near pitch dark and chilling mist? in the end, i give up and gps guides me back to where i started. larry wilkins says one wrong turn could have left the little girl lost for weeks.

>> all woods. and there's quite a few coyotes around here too. >> reporter: he believes the light in his yard could have attracted the little survivor or something else telling me, heaven had a hand as well. wolf there are so many ways this could have gone wrong for this little girl. first and foremost we should point out, this is primarily a vacation area. there's a lake nearby. people come here in the summer. in the winter i'm told only three homes are occupied. it just so happened she walked up to one of them. wolf? >> how's she doing? i know she had some injuries. how's she doing right now, martin? >> reporter: larry wilkins, the man inside the home here obviously feels a very strong connection. he's 71, to this 7-year-old child. the grandfather called him last night and said she's doing about as good as can be expected. she is in the hands of family and being cared for, wolf. >> what a miraculous story. martin thanks very much. martin savidge on the scene for

us. coming up a new blast from north korea because of the punishment president obama ordered for its cyber attack on sony pictures. will its harsh words lead to dangerous actions? and right at the top of the hour the search is now set to resume for the wreckage of that airasia jetliner. can they find the plane's black boxes before the batteries on their locater beacons give out? ♪ [carpenters: "rainy days and mondays"] ♪ [ac/dc: "back in black"] ♪ [ac/dc: "back in black"] chevy colorado. when you find new roads, you win motor trend's truck of the year. daughter: do you and mom still have money with that broker? dad: yeah,

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north korea's complaining loudly and bitterly about the latest economic sanctions president obama imposed as punishment for the cyber attack on sony pictures. let's bring in our chief national security correspondent jim sciutto. he's working the story there. new developments unfolding. >> no question. relations between the u.s. and north korea entering familiar but worrisome territory of combative rhetoric. north korea calling the u.s. repugnant and hostile after doubling down on its accusations that north korea was behind the sony hakim posing new economic sanctions. north korea's first response to new u.s. economic sanctions was

unyielding and angry. lashing out, pyongyang said the move proved the u.s. is still not away from inveterate repugnance and hostility toward north korea. the administration has used harsh language of its own accusing north korea of, quote, destructive and repressive actions including the attack on sony. >> you want to kill kim jong-un? >> reporter: the administration is not wavering in its view that pyongyang was behind the attack even as private cyber security firms have raised the possibility it may have been an inside job. >> as the fbi made clear, we're confident, we remain confident that the north korean government is responsible for this destructive attack. >> reporter: targets of the new sanctions? three government entities including its main intelligence agency in charge of cyber operations and ten individuals involved in weapons sales and overseas trade. senator robert menendez called

the latest round of sanctions on north korea just a good first step. >> i really do believe that we need to look at putting north korea back on the list of state sponsors of terrorism which would have far more pervasive consequences. >> reporter: the new sanctions come as the north korean leader kim jong-un signaled openness in his annual new year's address to renewed talks with his country's sworn enemy, south korea. however, few analysts see the outreach as genuine. >> he had to say something about north/south relations. you read the rest of the speech and it's much more worrying the idea that they want nuclear weapons for good. in addition they want economic assistance from the outside world. that's not a positive sign at all. >> the u.s. goal here i'm told is to deliver the proportional response the obama administration has promised. strong enough to penalize north korea but not to provoke it further. the u.s. for instance has not yet blocked pyongyang from

access to dollar-denominated trade but the white house made sure to say that these sanctions aren't the final effort. and the fbi is . despite as you know cybersecurity organizations that say it might have been an inside job. >> we look forward to his speech. thanks very much. jim sciutto with us know in the situation room. steven yates was deputy assistant for national security. dick cheney christian whiten worked for human rights in north korea during the bush administration and victor chao. let's parse out their response to the sanctions. they are sae're saying the sanctions will only harden their will resolution to defend what they call the sovereignty of their country. is kim jong-un threatening more attacks, more provocative actions?

what's your analysis? >> well basically what they're saying is part of a piece, it's kind of what we expect. north korea is one of the most flamboyant foreign ministries when it comes to rhetoric and so this is part of that same piece. we're dealing with a profoundly uncertain regime in north korea right now and so i think the united states government is at a big disadvantage of trying to game out what is most likely. this is a regime that shouldn't have been able to but has detonated nuclear devices, shouldn't be able to continue but has engaged in proliferation and shouldn't have been able to do the cyberattack so we managed to thwart them. >> what can the u.s. do? what could kim jong-un reel list particularly do to retaliate for these latest u.s. sanctions? >> well wolf i think the most likely things that we expect to see are more missile tests or even a fourth nuclear test. it looks like they're prepared

and ready to do that. they want to demonstrate they have a rogue mobile ballistic missile they haven't voen yet but put them on parades. these sanctions are just the beginning of what to me looks like a much more targeted strategy of trying to get at the points outside of north korea through which the regime gains hard currency. the naming of these ten individuals are ten who haven't been named before clearly linked to state-backed companies and activities that bring money to the regime through arm sales and through other sorts of activities so i think this is the beginning of what i hope is a much broader strategy that gets at north korean individuals, not just for nuclear proliferation although that's very important but for human rights violations as well as cyberactivities. >> christian, these new u.s. sanctions that have been opposed against north korea, do you believe they make it more difficult for north korea if you

assume north korea did, in fact launch that cyberattack on sony pictures? does it make it more difficult for them to engage in more of these kinds of cyberattacks? >> no i'd say not at all. unfortunately, it's not a real detemperature. most of the companies and individuals named have absolutely no exposure toward western finance or any sort of international finance if you look at what they're selling, illicit arms counterfeit narcotics, these aren't being done through reputable banks that can be held to account. suitindications full of 500 euro notes and heavily lawnered money which north korea learned to do particularly after the 2007 sanctions were so effective against it. so what mr. menendez said the senior most democratic senator on the foreign relations committee that north korea should be put back on the terrorist list more steps like that would be important. what we've seen so far is pretty minimal. >> at the same time steven

that north korea is making these threats we heard kim jong-un say let's have a dialogue with south korea. where does that play into this? >> well over the years that's often been a part of things. sometimes they try to play tough with america and draw closer with the people of the south. in the way they think of things i don't know it has worked terribly well and north/south relations are fraught with visits that come with a heavy price tag of transferring hard currency to north korean leadership and there have been scandals that enveloped presidential administrations of south korea. i don't think the current administration is interested in that. it's not necessarily new for them to smile with one happened and then try to be forceful with the other. >> guys thanks very much. we're obviously going to stay on top of this story for our viewers. coming up after days of rough weather, searchers are about to resume the hunt for the wreckage and the boyds from airasia flight 8501. we have full coverage coming up

at the top of the hour. a member of the ferguson grand jury get this a member of the ferguson grand jury is now filing suit demanding to be allowed to speak publicly and tell us all what exactly happened during those grand jury procedures. a closer look at the possible fallout. stay with us. you're in "the situation room." ♪♪ nineteen years ago, we thought "wow, how is there no way to tell the good from the bad?" so we gave people the power of the review. and now angie's list is revolutionizing local service again. you can easily buy and schedule services from top-rated providers. conveniently stay up to date on progress. and effortlessly turn your photos into finished projects with our angie's list app. visit angieslist.com today. ♪♪

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mutual insurance. back in the air the search of the airasia crash site is now resuming. crews are fighting storms and frustrations. could they have made a significant new discovery? new help from the u.s. the navy now deploying sonar to scan the sea floor. we're learning more about the desperate hunt for the black boxes before their pingers die out in a matter of days. and ferguson lawsuit. will new legal action by a grand juror outunleash new outrage about why the officer wasn't indicted. we want to welcome our viewers. i'm wolf blitzer. you're in "the situation room." >> this is cnn breaking news.

we got breaking news. airasia recovery crews are hoping for an early morning window in dangerous weather that forced the air operation to be called off again. it's just after sunrise off npdz and -- indonesia. 37 bodies have been recovered along with several large pieces of the wreckage and an indonesian navy captain says the tail might have been found where the black boxes are located but that report has not yet been confirmed. the pingers to locate those black boxes are losing battery power by the minute. our correspondents and analysts are standing by covering all the news that's breaking right now. let's go first to our aviation correspondent renee marsh. she has the very latest. >> well the race is on to essentially recover the critical evidence that will help explain what brought down flight 8501. some are beginning to question whether indonesia's air safety

record could have played a role. three more bodies brought to land. nearly a quarter of those who were on board airasia 8501 have been recovered. some still wearing seat belts. also recovered from the java sea, airplane seats, personal effects and what looks like part of a food cart. >> translator: we retrieved during our operation several objects mostly parts of the airasia plane. >> reporter: the main body of the plane and critical flight recorders still on the sea floor. 16-foot waves and muddy conditions underwater mean zero visibility. but an indonesian naval captain told reporters they may have found the tail of the plane that includes the crucial black boxes. china has sent experts in portable sonar equipment. the u.s. navy ship "uss sampson" is helping recover debris while

the "uss ft. worth" deployed sonar equipment. >> we can find things as small as a golf ball or as big as an airplane. >> reporter: while the investigation is under way another investigation is taking form. should aviation authorities have allowed flight 8501 to take off despite massive thunderstorms? >> thunderstorms in the united states you wouldn't take off. you'd be on the ground at laguardia or kennedy. >> reporter: today reports the doomed airline's pilots may not have received extensive weather data prior to takeoff. a top indonesiaen aviation official tells cnn it's a matter under investigation and insists the standard is for pilots to be briefed in advance on the weather. and concern airasia was not approved to fly the route from surabaya to singapore on the day it went missing, highlighting indonesia's significant safety problems with controlling its airspace. experts say booming air traffic has made indonesia the world's

busiest airspace with the weakest safety infrastructure. >> indonesia would be on a watch list from an faa standpoint. one of ten nations where there's serious oversight preliminaries. >> reporter: well a top aviation official tells cnn he hopes the investigation into whether indonesiaen aviation authorities acted improperly would be or should be complete in another one to two weeks. now, if the pilots did not receive adequate preflight weather reports, that opens up a whole new round of questions, why did the pilots fly without it? was there pressure to fly to stay on schedule? of course we know there is a very busy part of the world as far as airspace goes and, of course the larger investigation into what caused the crash, that will take much longer. >> still have no clue as to what caused that crash. our thanks very much renee, for that. of the 37 bodies that have been recovered at least 13 have now been identified and some of the crash victims already are being laid to rest.

cnn's gary tuchman is joining us live from indonesia with more. what are you seeing and hearing? >> reporter: well wolf for the first several days after this accident there were many family members were hoping their loved ones were still alive and that wasn't far-fetched because this is a country of thousands of islands, almost all of them no one lives on but authorities looked on the islands and found nobody and most of the families many of whom in this crisis center we're standing at just want to get their loved ones' bodies back and funeral service also take place. we were invited to a funeral home a 45-year-old woman and her 10-year-old daughter stevie were found and they will be laid to rest this friday. loved ones came up to ang altar in the buddhist tradition, lit contactedles the coffin is behind the altar.

in addition to that many of the people there took hundreds of pieces of paper, folded them into pieces of papers that looked like money and in the buddhist tradition, you take that and throw it into fire and it is supposed to provide for them in the afterlife. all very sad. we feel terrible for this family but what makes it worse is that this family had seven people on the flight 10-year-old's stevie's father was on it her grandmother, brother, sister and her sister's fiancee and those bodies have not yet been found so this family is planning for the funeral of the mother and daughter and then they will have to plan for more funerals after that. >> are the aviation authorities and indonesian authorities investigating, are they providing special briefings for the relatives of these victims? >> reporter: yes, that's why this tent is here. the families come here each and every day and come in and military official police

officials, religious officials, they provide counseling and information and food and water and also they're giving them some immediate financial assistant. 300 million indonesiaen rupiahs which convert ss to $340,000. >> gary tuchman on the scene. thank you. let's go to the capital of indonesia where investigators are standing by waiting to get their hands on more key pieces of the plane wreckage and all-important black boxes. cnn's kyung lah is joining us from jakarta right now. what are you seeing and hearing over there, kyung? >> reporter: wolf what we're seeing here is the investigative part of this story really beginning to ramp up. here in the capital, there are two laboratories that we are aware of one is the dna lab. you just heard gary talking about the painstaking search for remains. this is going to be the part of the lab that takes it a step further, bodies that cannot be

identified. the lab will take care of that but the other part is the debris lab. what's going to be happening there is that all the wreckage that is found at sea is going to be brought to this laboratory parts of the plane are going to be rebuilt. they're going to try to reconstruct the plane and figure out exactly what took this plane down and, of course that critical element of the debris lab will be recovering the so-called black boxes, the flight data recorder the cockpit voice recorders. that wolf will be the key that investigators are hoping will tell them what brought this plane down whether wirth, malfunction or some sort of error. >> i take it the indonesians have brought over invited american european australian other experts to come and help them deal with all of the wreckage to get those clues that they need especially those flight recorders, the so-called black boxes if in fact they get those black boxes? >> reporter: they're in very deep consultation with u.s.

authorities as well as european authorities and bringing in the best experts because they want to make sure that they answer the question of exactly what brought this plane down. we were on a plane flying in from seoul with a member of the ntsb and he was telling us that the very top experts are being brought in in preparation for analysis of those black boxes. they are hoping the indonesian authorities are hoping to get ahead of this and get the answers out there as quickly as possible. >> kyung lah in jakarta, thanks very much. let's bring in our aviation analyst miles o'brien and peter goals as well as tom fuentes, richard quest is joining us in the aviation writer and author clive irving guys to all of you, thanks very much. peter, reuters as you know quoting this indonesian navy admiral as saying that they believe they may have detected spotted the tail section of this aircraft. that would be hugely important. >> it would be great news if they could not only you know detect it get down and get a

look at it. they could then send either remote control vehicles down or if necessary divers to recover the boxes. >> this is the flight data recorder. >> that's right. >> that's where they are in the tail. >> they are in the tail. if they're not in the tail they're certainly close by and they should be able to recover them pretty quickly if this is indeed an accurate report. >> if they do detect they find this flight data recorder tom, how quickly will the information that's buried in here be able to be decoded or whatever and discovered maybe there's clues in there. >> generally, wolf it's very quick. when they get it in the lab it's a matter of days they start downloading the data and give them the parameters of the system and the voice recorder will give you the entire conversation of what went on while they were dealing with this crisis so that's -- it can't be overstated -- >> pretty safe. get the box they'll get all this information. is that right, peter.

>> these are incredibly robust. they will get the data the biggest problem will be syncing it up so it match the data recordings. >> richard, our anna coren is in indonesia and she's reporting the plane did not have authorization to fly on that sunday. here's the thing. why wouldn't it have had thunderstorms and if it didn't why was it in the air? >> well airasia did used to have permission to run that flight every day of the week. about three or four months ago that was restricted. they lost a couple of flights a week because the country was hitting the ceiling for its capacity between that airport surabaya and singapore. so they were told they could only fly on four days a week. sunday was not one of them. i have to say, wolf it is absolutely mind-boggling that the airline -- the compliance

people at indonesian airasia managed to put a plane in the sky and nobody realized that actually never had permission or didn't have a bilateral right for that day. singapore says no it could fly every single day so you have an element of basically what you have here is both the regulator and the subsidiary or the affiliate indonesia airasia getting it wrong and it is a serious question i cannot think of many situations where an airline would be allowed to put a plane in the sky on a day when it doesn't have permission to run the route. >> yeah it is blind boggling. i agree with you. richard, miles, you know reuters, they're quoting a source close to the investigation, i'll be specific. they're saying that the plane, the aa320 made what was described as an unbelievably steep climb and could have pushed beyond the limits. >> it's quite possible that's what happened talking about some of the strongest thunderstorms

in the world and along with those is a lot of downward force and upward force. a basically big old heat cycle and heat engine. on the upward part you'll go for a ride up. the question that we do have to ask to be careful about we're look at radar data which comes from the trance responder. this is the secondary radar information and don't know how accurate that is necessarily. there could have been preliminaries with the instrumentation on the aircraft or could have been iced over pitot tubes but a static inlet which indicates the altitude which could have provided some bad data in this case. having said that that would be no surprise given the environmental conditions that this plane was flying into. >> but there are other aircraft flying in the vicinity as well. they managed to land safely. >> thunderstorms are incredibly dynamic and short-lived. what happens in one place five minutes later can be a complooltly different story so when people say, well another plane flew through there, i say so what.

that was a different story, different time. >> good point. clive, you wrote a provocative article asking it these jets are too automated to fly, your words. are pilots, here's the question properly trained to deal with these kind of catastrophic emergencies? >> yes, not so much automation that's the problem but the training for handling it is the problem. automation is with us and done a great deal of good but what's been exposed first by the air france incident and other things is that the pilot -- to train a pilot to take over when the instrument mentation, when the automation fails has not been good not very sophisticated and can't representlicate the situation in which it shut down and the pilot has to take over control. as miles said if this flew into that kind of violent air condition and the flight management situation quit and they had to take over they might not have been trained for that and no pilot really -- it should

be a basic. no pilot should ever find himself in a situation for which he's not been trained and exposed a weakness that's been slowly corrected but not fast enough. >> "the wall street journal" reporting that the nypden meteorologist indonesian meteorologists are blaming icing which could have damaged the jet. are you buying that. >> it has happened in the past where engines have quit and windscreens have been broken. the real question is how did the plane get dispatched into such a heavy storm in the first place. >> a good question. richard quest, we did some checking. there are approximately 3,606 of their airbus a-320s in operation flying around in the united states, all over the world and i guess a lot of people are wondering since we don't know what happened to this specific airasia a-320.

should he be concerned? >> no i have no hesitation saying that. i'm going to give you another number wolf. yes, there are 3,500 a-320s but if you take the entire family of them from the 18 to the 321 you're heading toward 6,000 of that commonality and so far there's been nothing systemic. your earlier speaker makes an excellent, excellent point point question of training for the startle effect. something happens in the cockpit, the pilot suddenly finds a situation for which they may have been trained many years previously and they certainly haven't rehearsed it in the sim and they have to suddenly get their hands around an aircraft that is super automated as it goes -- as the various protections, the various -- the parts of the plane that are designed of the technology to protect them they start to

degrade and the pilot in that spur of the moment has to make those decisions but it's very similar and frankly, wolf there's absolutely so far as i can tell nothing systemic that anyone need to concern themselves. >> fair enough. good point, thom fuentes, what else are the investigators looking for? they haven't come up with the black boxes yet. what will help them. >> they still look at the crew the passengers the ground crew was there something that was improper the maintenance of the aircraft was it not done that should have been done so that's standard in all of these cases but i think in this one more than most and definitely more so than mh-370 is the aspect of just horrendous weather conditions and hard to deal with and one of the things that comes up in that also is if you're trying to fly this plane it's not all automation or none. you have instruments that they're looking at that may be giving them conflicting information and if the rain is so strong they can't see they

really don't know what's going on. they're guessing in that cockpit what to do based on the faulty information they're given from the system. >> peter, if they do find and we hope they find these black boxes and we have one of the flight data recorders similar right here in your opinion who should investigate, who should open them up go through it do the indonesians have the capability? should they ask the ntsb to do it the manufacturer of airbus? who should be the first to take a look at the data in there. >> i think they'll do it as a group. they've got americans and australians, they have the french there. what laboratory they go to my guess is they might go to australia because it's closest and they've got the -- >> have to take it to a laboratory. >> they have the capability. >> how long does it take to go through it and listen to what was going on in the cockpit? >> they could have it dried out and ready to be downloaded in a number of hours. they could have the results in 12 to 18 hours after they take it out of the ocean if they go

to australia. they might find that the boxes are damaged. they might need to take it to france or to the united states. >> all right, guy, thanks very much. good discussion. we'll continue our investigation. appreciate it very much. still ahead, the race against time. we have new details about the hunt for the so-called black boxes. could searchers be close to a breakthrough? and the grand jury decision that sparked outrageous across the nation. now a member of that grand jury has filed a lawsuit that may stir even more controversy.

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office depot & officemax. gear up for great. we're back with the breaking news. the search at the airasia crash site now getting back under way and an unconfirmed report that the tail might have been found. that's raising hopes that the black boxes may soon be located, as well. brian todd is tracking the hunt under the sea for us. brian, what are you learning? >> reporter: this is an urgent two-pronged search effort. you have the search for bodies and debate but have an urgent scramble to find the black boxes that are going to tell us how and why airasia flight 8501 went down. this search is in a more concentrated area with much shallower water than we had from

malaysia flight 370 but conditions are very difficult. search teams battle high wave muddy water, poor visibility. extreme conditions complicating the recovery of bodies and wreckage and frustrating teams in their search for the black boxes. the flight data and cockpit voice recorders on airasia flight 8501. only about three weeks remain before the pingers, the beacons on those black boxes die out. officials say at least three ships equipped with towed pinger locators are in the area. those are high-tech devices listening for hours at a time for the pinging sound coming from the black boxes. >> how far away kit be? >> the outside edge is about two miles. a mile and a half to two miles away it can detect the sound. >> reporter: a u.s. navy official tells cnn the towed pinger locator may not be as effective in this search area.

one reason is the weather. the heaveing waves make it less stable and can damage it. another factor the noise. >> in this area the water is so shallow you can't get away from the noise of the ship dragging whatever instruments so the ship is making noise, the waifs make a lot of noise and the waves make a lot of noise and all of that -- now you're trying to listen for a whisper. >> reporter: if the locator is not effective or can't be used or if searchers already know where to look a side scan sonar which map debris could help find them. search teams in the java sea are already using that. >> we can find things as small as a golf ball. >> reporter: they could have been stripped off the black boxes. >> that's happened before. that was what happened in the air france 447 case when that debris was finally recovered. it's a possibility and until we get down there and actually they're able to put microphones in the water and start listening

and noise levels are good so they know they're getting good coverage we won't know. >> reporter: but he says the indications he's getting point to a likely successful recovery of the black boxes. what's working in favor of the serve search teams they know the general area where the plane went down and found debris and unlike in the malaysia air search they're close to land and can shuttle personnel and equipment to the search area much easier. >> all encouraging developments. but the divers who could be deployed it's relatively shallow water and could face some real dangers. >> that's right. you talk to any former diver with the navy or any other salvage operation, even when they find it they might encounter jagged edges, things hanging all over the place and aircraft would be dark inside and divers can get disoriented as well. treacherous to send them down there. >> brian, thanks very much. joining us now cnn analyst

and oceanographer david gallagher and timothy taylor and oceanographer eric van sebil. taylors from the "uss ft. worth" began to search the wreckage site. how does the technology work? >> the sonar -- it's side scan sewn sonar that will make a topographical map of the bottom with objects that you can then identify as possible targets and then go down and look at them a little bit closer with the higher frequency. >> david, is this the best technology to use in this particular setting? >> yes, wolf it is. i'm just not sure what they're using and know some sonars can even find a golf ball. in others you could certainly pick out the windows on an aircraft if they use that kind of technology. it's just not clear which one, which frequency they're using and how they're using it. >> if the search and rescue

teams that they find the tail of the plane, the black boxes, will that be the end of the search? >> oh no i mean they have to map the whole area and for forensic study just as everything they can possibly look around the area of the crash to put the pieces together. now, that being said there are tools that can be brought into play for these divers in low visibility. this sonar -- hand held sonar and pinger locators that the divers can take in the water and bring down we use them all the time on our robots and when we're trying to find assets for the military or contractors or that type of thing they have pingers and divers can go down and following that even in low visibility so there are tools that i'm sure the navy has on location that they can apply with this low vis. >> eric we know the currents in this area even though it's relatively shallow they're strong. here's the question could the so-called black boxes have separated from the tail of the plane? >> well it would be possible

yes. the currents are so strong that even very close to the bottom they might actually move things a little bit. i don't expect it to be very large distances, i think the currents play much more of a role at the surface. the bodies that might still be floating out there, they might actually be spread further and further by the current. >> we know indonesian authorities say a piece of the wreckage they thought to be recovered from the plane was from a ship that sunk in the area maybe years earlier. how big of a problem is it that other wreckage could be detected as part of this operation? >> i think it's a huge problem, wolf. you know it's an incredibly highly trafficked area. has been through the ages plus that in world war ii there was an awful lot of activity so it doesn't surprise me one bit and hoping these other pieces are pieces of the aircraft and not

some sunken vessel. >> they could be really disappointed if they discover that happens to be just a piece of wreckage from a ship that went down during world war ii. >> yeah very possible. that's why it's so impossible to get a cam areera on it. >> how do you do that? how do you discern wreckage from this particular plane and debris from other objects, ships that may be physically recovered and detected by sonar or whatever? >> you take closer images with sonar and you get cameras down there if you can. i mean think of it -- this is world war ii. could be a plane, tail section from a plane from world war ii. it wouldn't surprise me as david said. so getting -- using the same technology and zooming down and getting higher frequency in this case you know for the lehman higher resolution sonar images and then you can, you know match them up to what you know

is the plane. >> erik the divers who are there, not u.s. divers although u.s. divers may be deployed they're constantly hindered by very strong currents. the weather is supposed to improve, we're told but the currents will they automatically improve if the weather improves? >> no no it could take days for these high waves that induce these large currents to slowly dissipate and to slowly spread out. so even if there's a little bit of a weather window where there's not so much rain or storm, it will still be very wavy very choppy very much currents that come from all over the place, very difficult to work in underwater. >> all right. erik david and tim, thanks very much. coming up more on the airasia disaster as the search gets under way, once again it's daylight over there, plus why a ferguson grand juror is now filing a very unusual lawsuit. we have new information coming

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we're learning details of a disturbing development in iraq

where hundreds of troops are now under what the pentagon calls regular rocket and mortar fire attack from isis. let's go to our pentagon correspondent barbara starr. what are you picking up. >> reporter: this is taking place at an air base in western iraq calledal al aal alal alal assad and troops are there helping train iraqi forces coming under regular rocket and mortar fire at the base along with the iraqi troops. so far the pentagon is calling these attack ss ineffective. they are not striking anything. no one has been hurt but it is mortar and rocket fire and it is raising concerns that at some point somebody could -- casualties would be suffered. no question bit. the pentagon is saying it's not happening now but are aware of the risk that is potential to u.s. troops.

why is this so vital? president obama has said no u.s. troops on the ground will be in combat. this raises the prospect combat could come to them. there is another very interesting turn this evening, wolf in the border town of kobani in syria along the turkish border a monitoring group now reporting that peshmerga fighters have pushed isis back and the peshmerga may now control up to 80% of the kobani area. that's a place, of course that the world has been watching for weeks. wolf. >> but getting back to the al asad air base those 320 marines that are there now coming under fire from isis troops are they relying on iraqi military personnel for security protection? >> reporter: well day-to-day that is controlled by iraqi personnel. no question bit. there is a large perimeter. it is monitored but the reality, the u.s. has its own methods of getting u.s. troops out of there

very quickly if it all goes south on them. there are a number of apache helicopter gunships in iraq now. they can quickly move in if the perimeter was to look like it was being breached by isis the apaches can move if from the air, push back the isis fighters. there is a capability to evacuate troops by air very quickly. this would be in the most dire of circumstances, right now the pentagon says they know the risk they think they can manage it. that's for now, wolf. >> all right, barbara, thanks very much. a disturbing development in iraq. other news we're following, the trial of the accused boston marathon bomber is now under way and cnn has learned about secret efforts to try to reach a plea agreement that would have spared the life of the suspect, dzhokhar tsarnaev. our justice correspondent is joining us now. what are you hearing from your sources, evan about this effort to get a plea deal? >> this was something the

justice department the attorney general eric holder did consider but in the end they decided they would stick by their plan to seek the death penalty in this case. a couple reasons for that including family member suffer viefrs of these bombings generally supported the decision to seek the death penalty and, you know massachusetts is a state that doesn't have the death penalty, wolf. but it is being sought in federal cases and so if this jury this federal jury decides not to hand down a death penalty in this case then at least it's something that they've done the citizens of massachusetts have done not something that justice department has taken off the table. >> i know the attorney general eric holder known to be an opponent of the death penalty sticking to it in this case. let's say he would have agreed to life in prison for tsarnaev without the possibility of parole. would tsarnaev's lawyers have accepted that? >> that's the direction they were pushing for, wolf. you know judy clarke as you

know, very famous lawyer has managed to get these type of sentences for some of the most notorious criminals include inging moussaoui, ted kaczynski so this was the expectation and something they were pushing for. in the end they didn't. the attorney general while he is an opponent of the death penalty i'm told one thing if you notice his record is that he has, you know authorized in cases involving cop killings which is the case in the tsarnaev case. >> i assume they checked with the victims' families to see if they would have gone along with a guilty plea a plea bargain to avoid the death penalty. is that right. >> right that, is part of the procedure justice department goes through before they authorize this. once he authorizes it they have to you know there has to be new information that comes forward for him to revisit that decision. >> evan perez doing some outstanding reporting for us as he always does.

thank you very much. let's get more now with our senior legal analyst jeffrey toobin and tom ffuentes. is that still on the table? even though they rejected the plea bargain, as the jury procedures go on at any moment could they go ahead and accept the guilty plea from the defendant. >> yes, all the way up until the last day of the trial and not uncommon as the trial unfolds and defense maybe thinks it's not going to go as well as they hoped to make a change and go for a plea agreement. >> jeffrey, tsarnaev's demeaner was closely watched today. he was described by local media as nervously touching his bird walking with a swagger at times as he exited the proceedings. is that what you would expect to see in a case like this? >> it's hard for me to judge his demeanor sitting in this television studio. look he's got to be nervous. his life literally is on the line in this case.

i don't think there's any doubt he's guilty of the bombing. the only issue is the death penalty and jury selection is in many respects the most important part of this case because it's all about whether the defense can find one juror who will say life in prison not the death penalty. >> that's why they're spending the next several weeks going through, what more than a thousand potential jurors. need 12 jurors, six alternates. that's going to take a long time. >> it is a real paradox because on the one hand the defense really didn't want the trial here. they asked for a change of venue because the boston metropolitan area was in a way entirely a victim of this crime. on the other hand it's worth remembering massachusetts is among the most liberal states in the country. it is very hostile by and large to the death penalty.

there hasn't been an execution in massachusetts since 1947. so this may not be a bad place for the tsarnaev defense to find sympathetic jurors. it's an unusual situation in that regard. >> i want you to stay by jeffrey, tom, as well. we'll get the latest apparently one of the grand jurors in ferguson, missouri is filing a lawsuit to speak out publicly and tell us all what happened in that grand jury. stand by, new information coming in. i've smoked a lot and quit a lot but ended up nowhere. now...i use this. the nicoderm cq patch with unique extended release technology helps prevent the urge to smoke all day. i want this time to be my last time. that's why i choose nicoderm cq. does a freshly printed presentation fill you with optimism? then you might be gearcentric. right now, all printers are on sale. plus great deals on hp ink and toner. office depot & officemax.

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we're following an unusual twist in the michael brown shooting case. one of the grand jurors now wanting to speak out and filed a lawsuit for the right to do so. jeffrey, this juror is suing for the right to talk because of a missouri state law which requires secrecy about grand jury deliberations. the case has been unusual from the start. what do you think? will this grand juror be allowed to tell his or her side of the story? >> i have to say it's really puzzling. never heard of a lawsuit like this but what makes this lawsuit i think have a chance is there

was the complete disclosure as we probably all remember of all the grand jury testimony in the michael brown case. all of the witnesses' testimony was released which was very unusual under missouri law, so what this grand juror is saying well why not release the whole thing? why not release our deliberations where we were told what the law was, let me talk about what else went on in the grand jury room. usually courts are very protective of grand jury secrecy so i think the odds are that this lawsuit will fail but i think it does have a chance because this is an unusual situation where a lot of the grand jury material has already been released. >> the lawsuit in this case accuses the st. louis county prosecutor bob mccullough of handling this particular grand jury very differently than hundreds of others that were handled. this accusation how much weight

does that carry? >> i don't think that part of it wolf will carry a lot of weight but what will carry weight and make this possible is that maccullough coped the door for this and when he held that press conference the night announcing the decision and gave out so much information that he opened the door for more information yet to come out so i think that i don't know i don't know how to weigh this but i agree with jeffrey probably not likely but could happen. >> it was unusual that all that testimony, the transcripts were released. that was pretty unusual to begin with at the same time. >> right. there is a provision of missouri law that allows for the release of the evidence. the question here is does that same law allow a grand juror to be freed from his or her secrecy obligations? i don't know what the answer is. the problem is if this grand

juror is saying this grand jury was treated so differently than other grand juries it opens the door of well how do other grand juries act and the courts certainly won't want to get into a wholesale release of grand jury information but just shows how controversial this case is and even some of the grand jurors who voted not to indict are concerned about whether there really was justice in the nonindictment of officer wilson. >> all right, jeffrey, tom, guys thanks very much. breaking news ahead, the latest on the airasia recovery efforts, they're resuming right now. are the search crews getting closer to the actual plane? earning unlimited cash back on purchases. that's a win. but imagine earning it twice. introducing the citi® double cash card. it lets you earn cash back twice, once when you buy and again as you pay. it's cash back. then cash back again. and that's a cash back win-win . the citi double cash card.

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snmplt conservative calls for a coup against john boehner seem to be growing as he faces re-election to the house gop leadership tomorrow. let's dig deep we are our chief political analyst and our chief congressional correspondent, dana bashful what's going on there? is there realistically a chance that boehner will not be elected

speaker of the house? >> i think coup is the word that those who wanted him ousted will use. maybe a rebellion is probably the more realistic and accurate way to describe it. the house speaker, i don't know if people really realize this, is a constitutional role. he or she has to be elected by the entire house of representatives. he needs 218 votes. there is a huge republican majority tomorrow. 246 people. that means he can lose nearly 30 republicans and still become the speaker. so it looks like he will probably lose more than last time which was about a dozen. and he likely won't use the speakership but he'll be back on his heels a little bit. and it is something his allies would rather not do. they want to come into this new republican congress with republican turmoil. >> it is mildly embarrassing for him. if he has a good showing, he can go into this. i would argue in a strengthened way and say, okay folks, you've

had your say. i won. you lost. now we have to show that we can govern. that's what this fight is really about. it is about whether you want to just argue over ideological grounds for the next two years, setting the stage for 2016. or whether you actually want to be a little more practical about it. get some things done and take that with you into 2016. two very different approaches to the way you want to run the republican majority. boehner is on one side and the folks challenging him are on the more ideological side. >> and those who don't like boehner, you don't think that will grow over the next 29 hours and that could be 29 republicans, maybe some freshmen coming in who don't like boehner. they're worried about him. that he make too many deals. that that momentum could grow. >> it could grow. no question about it. whether it gets to the point where there is 29 republicans or 28 depending on how many are

present, remains to be seen. if they do get momentum. if they do defeat him in the first round. then what happens is they go to a second round of voting. this is all going to play out. they'll probably going into recess and figure it out. even if they do that then they're in a pickle. you can't replace somebody with no one. and there is even everybody who wants him to be ousted agrees. at this point there is nobody else who can get 218 votes to be the speaker of the house as we speak. >> and these people are from conservative districts. some said i will never support john boehner. this is someone who doesn't believe in what i believe in. he is too pragmatic. for them it is a win/win situation. john boehner becomes speaker and they get to tell the folk at home. >> let's get on presidential politics. mike huckabee the former fox news host over the news quit fox

news thinking about running for the republican nomination. >> i remember this. >> he did that once before. >> he won in eye wax. >> and he has a book coming out. they all write books. i'm not so sure he will run but he wants to go out on a book tour. he has to learn to raise a lot of money. what happened to him after won iowa the last time was he ran out of money. he has to be able to raise $150 million. that doesn't happen very easily. >> that's true. i will say that i was with mike huckabee when he was an unknown guy in iowa in 2007 when he was just, him and a couple of aides. and you cannot underestimate him on this. he is sort of closest to bill clinton in the retail politicking ability as i've ever seen on the republican side. and the other thing i will say is that since then he certainly couldn't raise money but he's had this fox platform.

>> sure. that's why in the polls he places in the top half. because people know who he is. he is a great speaker. and by the way you know who is the beneficiary of this? jeb bush and chris christie. those on the right who may appeal to evangelicals suddenly it is a crowded, getting a little more crowded. and so that's better for the other candidates. >> the so far more moderate republicans. >> if i were jeb bush i would welcome mike huckabee. >> let's show you chris christie, the governor of new jersey there he is. a dallas cowboys fan. he has the sweater on with jerry jones. the owner. what's going on over here? >> i don't know. it looks like my kids at their soccer game when they were 5 years old. jumping up and down when somebody scored a goal. >> you're from new jersey. don't they have two football teams who play nfl football in new jersey? >> yeah.

not to mention that people in southern jersey i'm sorry, i'm from northern jersey, the other jersey they love the eagles. so three teams. he is actually historically been a dallas cowboys fan. apparently he's been a fan since roger staubach played. you remember that right? >> sure. >> he's been a lifelong fan. what his people say is that he was elected twice in new jersey. they knew that he wasn't a fan. but let's also like look at this from a 2016 perspective. this is an bad thing for chris christie to be seen as a regular guy who is just -- >> he's in the owner's box. >> he is the governor of new jersey. you expect him to be in the nosebleed section? >> regular guys are not in the owner's box. he is lucky to have been there. and by the wearing his staff points out that the owner actually paid -- >> jerry jones. >> if you're the governor of new jersey, and maybe a republican

presidential candidate, not such a bad thing. >> i love the jumping up and down like that. >> they were having fun. it's football. >> would you do that right? >> sure. >> that's it for me. erin burnett "outfront" starts right now. >> "outfront," breaking news. airasia 8501. officials saying the plane never should have been allowed to take off. this as we we have reports. plus a girl walks away from a plane crash that killed her sister. we'll talk to another survivor about a miraculous survival story. and brittle an's royal palace the fighting back. let's go "outfront." >> a good monday evening to all of you. "outfron