by cartoonists around the world. they're showing their solidarity for their cartoonists and family and friend of them in france. light will always overpower darkness. and the human race cannot be stopped by hatred. >> we'll come back stronger. >> there has been a lot of strength shown here in france on this day. and no doubt tomorrow as well. and in the difficult days ahead. that does it for us. we'll be on the air, tomorrow morning, 9:00 a.m. east coast time in the united states. also of course broadcasting live from paris tomorrow night. cnn tonight with don lemon starts now. don. >> great reporting, anderson. thank you. we'll get back. stand by. the breaking news the manhunt is on. 80 police and army personnel mobilize across france.

helicopters with night vision tools searching for two armed dane dangerous suspects in the attack on "charlie hebdo." police helicopter caught sight of what investigators believed were the suspects on foot in the wood. a gas station attendant reports the armed brothers stole gas and food from a station a few miles away. want to bring back in anderson cooper christianyou have a clear sense of the police in hot pursuit. driving. 50 miles to the northeast of paris. on virtually every road we drove down. we a con voicevoy of police rushing

in the directs of what we believed were the location of the suspects. want to one town. they turned their attention to another town. later they turned their attention to where it is focussed now. a broad area tens of thousand of acres in fact of a forest in that same area where a helicopter spotted what were believed to beef the attackers, leaving a car they had hijacked and running into the woods. it is those woods that are now the focus of the search. an immense area. there are apparently caves there. lots of places to the hide. that's a reason why you have tens of thousands of military police being mobilized now to search and, frankly, the area of search being expanded right up to the border with belgium. all these areas on high alert tonight, don. >> what was the mistake, jim that these brothers made officials identify them? >> one of them left his id card in the first car they used when they attacked the offices of "charlie hebdo" behind us here. tonight, left his id card in the

car when they abandoned it. one clue. not the only clue we are told by u.s. and french authorities. that they have other indicators that the two brothers are the gunmen behind the attack. >> we are hearing the brothers were known from by the authorities. anderson has been reporting that all evening. while weren't they under surveillance? they had been under surveillance a number of years. i spoke to the former head of the french counterterrorism police. which was in charge at the time they were under surveillance. he said listen there are too many of them jihadis, and too few of us. the authorities. 5,000 people on a list of suspected jihadis in france. you do the math the he told me it takes three to ten agents to keep a single suspect under surveillance. that would require tens of thousand of police.

there was a time they went to ground. no longer a priority. they prevented a number off takes in recent weeks in france. here they apare to havepear to have made a bad call. >> anderson can you talk about the scene there. there are flowers behind you. what is going on? >> yes, we are two, three blocks from where the attack took place. down there over our shoulder. and this is as close as where civilians are allowed to get. this is obviously, the whole area closed off. this is where a lot of people have come. we have seen thousand of people coming throughout the day today. since this attack took place wanted to come and pay their respects. and we have seen these make shift memorials which have sprung up behind us. there is one several blocks from where we are. people have brought candles, people have brought cartoons. they brought photographs. of those who were killed. they left pens pencils. the sign, the strength, the power of the pen against the

power of the gun. there has really been this incredible outpouring we have seen all throughout france. all throughout western europe. even in the united states. and we certainly see here today where people have come. there is silence. people don't really there is just kind of this sense of respect. the sense of wanting to bear witness and just to be here don? >> uh-huh. talk to us about, christiane or anderson. disturbing inside "charlie hebdo" offices. you want to the hospital anderson where some victims are being treated. talk to me about that. and how are the victims doing? >> yeah i did go to the hospital today. i talked to to one man, who was actually in the emergency room a doctor a columnist for "charlie hebdo" who arrived on the scene some five minutes after the attack. he is still completely shattered by what he saw. he says in his 25 years in the emergency room he has never seen anything like it.

it was a san of warcene of war. it is a battle zone. he fried to do what he -- he tried to do what he could to help those who were wounded and those in shock. you know, 12 people did lose their lives. one of the things most poignant he said to me about the reason that they're going to continue to publish. next wednesday they're going to come out with an edition, 1 million copies of the paper, are going to be sold. the reason he said that is so important. he says that if they are silent. remains silent. it's like his colleagues are murdered twice. something he is not welling to stand for. >> christiane you interviewed the foreign minister and if "charlie hebdo" went too far with their cartoons? >> the foreign minister said "charlie hebdo" must survive. it will survive several more weeks. this is a stand they're making. a line in the sand that they will not bow down in the face of

this kind of terror. he said yes, many people certainly people in the muslim world, some found it offensive. but this its what we are all about. we are about the freedom of expression speech and the freedom to mock and criticize. remember it wasn't just islamic extremism, absurdity, by "charlie hebdo," it's been politicians, the catholic church. everyone that you could possibly imagine. celebrities. even some celebrities the targ tights day were -- targets today holding up signs "i am charlie." something very clear. he also said two things. one, democracy can't exist without freedom. freedom cannot exist without freedom of the press. he was clear about that point. and another point which is this shows the there need to be a much greater and closer cooperation around the world in this fight against terror. as anderson and jim have been saying. people have come out. they refuse to be cower and

silenced. there is a huge march for sunday. they have been told to get in your mosque friday and condemn this at the strongest levels possible. but people are saying this is a war. a turning point in this kind of fight. against modernity, against the west whatever it might be. >> christiane anderson jim, great reporting thank you. we will be watching as you continue to report this. lots more. police in northern france believe they're closing in on two armed, dangerous suspects in the deadly attack on "charlie hebdo." this is not just about cartoons that some find offensive. about something much bigger and more dangerous. what are root causes here? what are we doing to keep it from ham penppening again? we'll get answers when we come right back. banking designed for the way you live your life.

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>> breaking news the manhunt in france for two brothers wanted in the deadly shooting at "charlie hebdo" magazine. helicopters equipped with night vision instruments are searching a wooded area north of paris where the suspects may have been spotted. and thousands of police have fanned out on the ground determined to apprehend the two men. what's really behind this bloody assault and others like it around the world? cnn international correspondent nic robertson has more. [ gunfire ] >> reporter: paris, ground zero for the latest islamist terror attack. on the surface it appears this is retribution for pictures of islam's prophet muhammad. is it part of something larger? the latest battle by islamic extremists dedicated to the destruction of western val use.

it's the biggest radical islamist attack in europe in ten years. but one of many in recent weeks across the globe. this is when things get really bad. less than a month ago, i was stepping through the carnage of another radical islamist attack. thousands of miles away. this time pakistan. 132 mostly muslim school children gunned down. cold-blooded murder. because their taliban islamist killers said the children's parents were in the army. in the days before that australia. half a world away. a radical islamist takes early morning customers and employees hostage in a chocolate shop. two people were killed plus the gunman. that gunman claiming australia kills muslims in syria and iraq. each attack a different radical rational given. a world war all in the name of

islam. mogadishu, an affiliate targeting the u.n. turkey this week a female suicide bomber attacks a police station in the main tourist district of istanbul. and, a steady background drum beat during the same month. the new normal. the death toll at the hand of radicals climbs. executions in syria, car bombs in iraq. and in afghanistan this week a car bomb targeting european police. failing. killing yet more innocent civilians. in fact most of those dying are muslims, collateral damage. this in a world war where you don't see the enemy coming the lines of tanks on the streets of paris. just the latest explosion of terror and the havoc it leaves behind. nic robertson, cnn, atlanta. >> want to bring in faried

zakaria, and mike rogers national security commentator and former congressman. when it said mostly muslims are killed. you were shaking your head. why is that? >> if you look at statistics it is overwhelming that its lamb inging that islamic terrorists will kill more than any other religious group. >> seeing it all capitalized like that. it is horrific. it sums up the horror of what's happening around the world. all over the world. we see it nowen paris. >> of it was a very good report. i think it makes you realize there is some broader phenomenon here which is -- there is within the world of islam. many many pockets. many groups that really have a great deal of difficulty with the modern world. particularly with the open, western, freedom of speech loving freedom of expression loving world. i think it is a mistake to think of it as all islamic, and the

west. this is mostly a battle within islam. they're mostly killing muslim moderates because you know they're, they're the ones they're fighting for control of these countries. but the grievance, the grievance is that they feel they live in a world not of their making. a world of the west's making. >> can we talk more about that? it is important it is a battle within islam. >> think what happened in pakistan. they're killing school children. those are pakistani muslim school children. >> hold that thought. we'll talk about that. a deadly competition between isis and al qaeda. that's next. financial noise financial noise

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>> helicopters armed with night vision tools searching a wooded area north of paris for two suspects in the massacre at "charlie hebdo." fareed and mike. we are learning the rise in isis puts preshsure al qaeda to go big. does it prove that this is really bigger than a cartoon or magazine? >> we don't know the extent to which any of the organizations are involved in it. apparently al qaeda has connection to one of them. there is no question that these organizations are in competition with one another. they're trying to attract recruits. they're trying to get funding from sources like rich saudi donors. and the more they can achieve,

some kind of spectacular victory gruesome and barbaric as it sound. the more likely they are to get the attention of the world. one of the reasons isis released barbaric videos. it was a way of getting into the spotlight. stealing attention from al qaeda. that very weak zawahiri produced a grainy al qaeda videos with a long monologue which looks like internet 1.0 compared with isis. so yes, absolutely. the guys are in competition with one another. >> do we look at this individual acts or is this a larger plan to destabilize the western world, western values. what you find is messdifferent actions. all have al qaeda allegiances. then you have this isis group that used to be an al qaeda named affiliate.

and it's interesting that the fight between the two wasn't necessarily about who was going to be in charge at the time. but, when you look at what baghdadee wanted to ee baghdadi wanted to do. wanted to attack outside of syria, iraq jordan. other places. zawahiri said no we don't want you to do that. we want-up to focus. never about brutality or power. it was abut just having a fundamental disagreement. he said i have access to all people with western passports. we can do more. we should do more. that was the split. so we remembered the ideals are all the same. they have the same goals same tactic. what we are talking abut hereoutabout, getting concerned. he competes for finances recruits. competes for operational status. meaning can we get people logistically in and out of places. the government monitors 21 al qaeda affiliates. half have pledged support to isis in some way. either overtly or covertly.

meaning they have -- >> competition between the two. >> the thing that worries the most is what if this does not have the hallmarks of of an isis directive operation or an al qaeda directed operation. what if what we are now beginning to see, a lone wolf operators or wolf backswolfpacks, small groups on the internet. the main point is they're locals. they know the local landscape. they know local culture. but they have trained themselves well enough to pull off something -- quite -- quite impressive. though barbaric. the use of gloves. the use of masks. ability to have no fingerprints. things like that. that's worrying. how do you protect against that. you can monitor the 21. al qaeda affiliates. how do you monitor 5 million french muslims. >> very good question. i want to ask. are we getting to the point congressman where there are so many people are becoming radicalized. so many terrorists.

that -- that there aren't the resources to track them and to watch them. >> we have sur passed edsurpassed the fact. we have resources with europe and the united states to watch them all. and one of the things many of us, me included have said this for over a year and a half. -up need to you need to deal with the problem in iraq and syria. recruiting tool not only if you show up. you see it as some one that identifies with the ideology. believes it is okay off to rape and pillage your way across the country to. gain your philosophical dominance in the region. they see it. they look at this as a successful event. they're beating the west. even after the united states we have a they haven't gained it. >> when you say beating the west. barbara starr, reporting one of the suspects. training with al qaeda, yemen, had direct contact with them. were there opportunities, what opportunities were missed intelligencewise? >> hard to say. one of the things we are just even learning now is finding

pipelines, human trafficking pipelines, with with transporting. during the iraq war. and we are discovering those now. because of activities that are happening in libya. things we would have missed. at the intensity level that we were doing to pro tkttect our soldiers back then. it's not perfect. not a crystal ball. it its based on access and where we can apply resources to get the information necessarily we need. i think we have a good handle on it. i don't think we know all of it. and there are certain ways that they can get in and out that we didn't have a handle on. >> you are doing a lot of writing to day. one of your column. two, i want to talk about this. you tweeted this out. can we see the leaders of egypt, pakistan and saudi arabia condemn the acts of terror on

tv. do you think these leaders, need to go on television how strongly do you want to see them come out and condemn this? >> there needs to be a very different approach. right now frankly after a lot of people in the west like me have been saying this. you are seeing statements to. their credit. islamic centerers. there are 60 muslim majority countries. how many cases can you think of don, where you have seen the leader of the country. publicly on television and eloquently denounce this. we would be running the clips. there aren't a lot of them. there are a lot of statements by foreign ministries and things like that. why not. why not. i think they didn't want to come across supporting a magazine that was in their view blaspheming islam. that gets into the issue of

blaspheme. a battle for the hearts and mind. of muslims. they're willing to step up there. and do it in the way that it need to be done. which is not a mealy mouth statement issued in the dead of night. a, why not have an important saudi prince. crown prince of saudi arabia and explain why this is on islam. that will run, 24/7 around the world. the egyptian president. made a powerful speech recently. and islam. that was a pretty i thought it was a very very. very good speech. it was not in relation to this. completely separate. but it didn't get a lot of play. it didn't get a lot of attention. i thought that was a very important step for -- for what many would believe is the heart of the arab world and egypt. and -- for that leader to step up and take that stand.

why is because he is fighting islamic radicalism in his own country. and he is -- he seems like he is turning the tide. but having some victories and some losses. and for him to come up in the middle of the fight. give that speech. maybe we can continue to to try to export that to pakistan to saudi arabia to other countries. >> sit here with you guys all evening. listen to this. we have to move on and get other people in. thank you. thank you. really appreciate it. up next what is really behind the deadly attack on the magazine staff in paris. my next guest says it has a lot to do with anger felt by many muslims in europe. financial noise financial noise financial noise

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an intense manhunt under way in france for two suspects in the murderous attack at a paris magazine. despite recent deadly strikes by radicals around the world is at take in paris different because it happened in europe? my next guest says europeans have a problem with outsiders especially muslims. and a religious scholar who is the author of "zealot the life and times of jesus of nazareth." welcome back. >> great to see you. >> griteat to see you. to understand what happened in paris you have to understand what is happening in europe with the muslim population? >> europe is facing nothing short of an identity crisis. look fact of the matter there have been seismic changes on the continent, culturally racially

politically. an intense anti-immigrant and anti-muslim backlash. in france one of the largest parties, the party of the national front is a virulently anti-muslim party. and very well made may win the next elections. you have the party in the uk the party in germany. this is a party whose sole platform seems to be let's get rid of all muslims. they have had for the last few months every week thousand and thousand of supporters marching in germany. in this notion that muslims are some internal enemy. in sweden we had three mosque attacks over the last week. so this is created this sort of intense, tension among the muslim populationen europe and non-muslim population. >> did "charlie hebdo" feed into that polarization? >> well not a justification buy any means at all. but what "charlie hebdo" represents for a lot of people in europe is precisely this clash of civilizations.

look, the editors of "charlie hebdo" would pol jetpologetically say they make fun of everybody, and make fun of muslims to show demonstrate, look if you want to be in this country. want to be in france k. you have to deal with the french values you have to rid yourself of your own val use, ideals norms, you have to take on french values. there have been a number of laws palgs passed in france prohibitions on islamic dress. throughout europe. whether you can build mosques. build minarets, et cetera. the tension, polarization has led to a lot of acts of violence. not just the tragedy yesterday. >> so it is being, being characterized as religious. do you think class and culture as big of factors in this? >> unquestionably. look the muslim populationen europe for the most part tend to be lower middle class. they are, economically,

socially politically, marginalized. they feel dispossessed. they have an identity crisis. they don't feel french. they don't feel algerian. they don't feel british. they don't feel pakistani. they become easy bait for organizations like isis or al qaeda. look all most 1,000 french muslims have already joined isis. by the way, this was true in a previous generation with al qaeda. why its that? isis? al qaeda provide a simple identity for these unmoored youth. why don't you feel french. because you are not french. that's why. you are muslim. you belong to this larger oppressed group. and that you should come and fight for those values. it's appealing. as you can imagine. to some muslimsen europe. >> as i am reading abut the caricatures in the cartoons. i read some accounts that say, you know everyone is saying this is this is a speech freedom of expression. butten a enin a way in america if you did that with african-americans.

you did it depicting african-americans, big lips watermelons or you did it with jewish people with a big nose because you can do it should you do it. its that fair? >> that is a philosophical question. i have unconditional support frif freedom of speech. say what you want to however you want to when you want to. there is dominant or privileged culture cultures. whether white people in america, christians what have you. there is an unwritten code that you can make fun of dominant cultures. you can make fun of privileged classed and you shouldn't make fun of oppressed or minority classes. that is an argument many in france are starting to make. regardless there are idea that there should be limitations about what you can and cannot say. those limitations are country specific. in france there is no limitation. particularly with regard to religion and race. and i think "charlie hebdo" was

representative of this distinctly french value and are gaument unless you agree with that value then you are not really french. that is an argument that a lot of young, muslims, particularly young immigrants who come from different cultures they just don't buy into it. and enough of them feel angry, perhaps, threatened enough to actually take up violence. a great tragedy. >> because you said in no way are you saying that it violence is every right in this particular situation. you are explaining the conditions. >> never. >> that precipitated this. >> look there is a civil war taking place in europe. the europeans don't know who they are. fighting to figure out who they are. they're looking around. the place doesn't look like it did 50 years ago. there are black faces, brown faces, asian people. particularly in france an aggressively secularizing country. that has never really tolerated multiculturalism or the kind of cultural religious diversity the

hallmark of the united states. you can see how that would create the tensions that would bubble up occasionally into acts of violence on beth side. we have seen a lot of anti-muslim violence in use up as well as muslim violence against europeans. >> so a stock question but, how do we move forward? what do we do to fix this? you and i have spoken and this goes beyond let's move past the conversation abut islam being violent and all of that. that solves nothing. so then where do we go from here. the world, how do you fix this. from having another "charlie hebdo"? >> well first of all we have to rely on political, religious, media leaders to turn down the volume on this rhetoric of division and polarization. i mean you know unfortunate low the exact opposite is happening. is that these events amplify the voices of the extreme. certainly in the case of europe. you've will see a huge surge of popular support for the far right anti-immigrant

anti-muslim political parties. i think the united states is a great model for what to do. look a society of many cultures, religions, races, lfg tolfg -- living together in harmony is society of 21st century. you can have it be homogenous is a joke. that doesn't exist any more. a lot of people have a problem with that. it is what it is. in the case of muslimize think something profound is happening because of these attacks. you can see in in the hash tag that has gone viral, muslims around the world and the united states who are identifying with the first murdered person in paris during these attacks, the mutz the muslim police officer was killed defending "charlie hebdo's" right to caricature his religion. >> reza. >> that idea is what need to excel. >> they're telling me i need to

go. five minutes ago. i have to ask you this did you hear the conversation with the congressman and fariedeed, he said he would look to see the president of egypt come out and denounce this. what do you think? >> i would like to see that. i would say the president of egypt is one of the worst dictators in the world, ruling over one of the worst police states on the planet. man not the best model for what we should and should not do. yes, let's hear the leaders of saudi arabia pakistan muslim majority countries come out and unequivocally condemn acts of violence. >> reza aslan thank you for joining us. come back. >> you got it. >> the attack on satirical cartoonists has drawn reaction from people from all over the world.

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♪ ♪ >> the attack on "charlie hebdo" slaughtered some of the best known satirical cartoonists in france. this is clearly much more than cartoons or satire. joining me now a man who knows about both and has a lot to say about at take.

terry sheer, a starring voice over voiceover actor on "the simpsons" one of the most successful and irreverent shows in television history. let's take a listen. >> the lord is vengeful. oh spiteful one. show me who to smite and who will be smoten. >> homer, god didn't set your house on the fire. >> your friend and neighbors went to your aid, christian, jew or miscellaneous. >> hindu. there are 700 million of us. >> that's super. >> welcome. >> and bless you. >> thank you. i am sure the character offend a lot of people. but when you play them. do you ever worry about offending some one? >> no i don't. and you know the interesting thing about the simpsons is we started out -- being denounced by a lot of conservative christians because bart was supposedly a bad role model. in year 16 i started doing

interviews with christian mag zenz. -- magazines. the simpsons had two christian character on primetime television. ned flanders and reverend lovejoy. they finally saw the whole elephant eventually. >> uh-huh. what were your thoughts when you heard about the attack on "charlie hebdo"? >> you know. shocked. horrified. i think we need to come to a pin the where heinous acts are -- the creators of heinous acts are described as that and no more. whatever slogans are intoned. whether they be avenging the prophet or these were patriots and mistakes were made. when heinous acts are committed we should call them by their names, barbarians savages. >> you were able to hear that. whether this was akin to making fun of jews and blacks you say? >> no.

your example was making one of people in racial or religious groups with ref rinse to stereotypical attributes. what "charlie hebdo" was doing was making fun of the super structure of various religions. they got sued 14 times by the catholic church. pretty catholic in their approach. they weren't making fun of the members of the religions. believers. they were making fun of authority figures. satire is making fun of the powerful. powerful in every walk of life. politics. religion or education. by the way, satire is meant to draw blood. >> i think he said it was the -- the larger culture of the culture in power is -- is basically, i think the -- the connection that reza was making. you don't think? >> yes. and then you hear -- a lot of people in the, conservative christian community in america

thinking that there is a war on that dominant -- culture in america. so you can't win when you start getting into that game. everybody, every befd gets abody gets a right to feel offended victimized and nowhere to go. >> i want to read you something that you tweeted you. said this just not in. fbi almost certain paris attack on satirical magazine caused by north korea. why? >> yes. >> why? >> well the fbi was too soon. you know if you want to go back to that. the fbi wasted $400 million being able to update their computer system. yet quick to the mark with a -- with a conclaugsusion most in the tech world have rejected. i was just making fun of their overuse in coming to a wrong conclusion about a public event. but whenever these events happen. we are quick whether we have the

fbi at our hands or not. to try to draw conclusions about people. as i said before to to -- assume that we know what wassen their mind and that what was in their mind was important. you know? charlie manson had an agenda. who cares. he was a commiter of heinous acts. he is where he belongs. >> what about the notion just because you can do it maybe you shouldn't do it. man one should be more respectful of some one's religion or some one's belief religion or belief and not parody it. >> respect has no place in satire. respect belongs perhaps in journalism. we have seen you know various journalistic organizations make various decisions as to whether or not to reprint the offending images. and it should be noted that some of these organizations have tentacles and a lot of other businesses beside journalism. they have reason to fear you know attacks not just on their journalists but on other aspect

of their business. great thing about "charlie hebdo," they weren one business satire. when you start doing respectful satire, you know you should get out of the business. >> they're going to publish again next wednesday. what are your thoughts? >> looking inging forward to it. they may do two pages. they will publish. i think, you know we all, in this satirical community if there is a such thing, expecting them to try to find a way to laugh at all this. >> harry sheer in new orleans. >> yes, sir. >> thank you very much. >> thank you. >> sheer has a show on youtube called nixon's the one. and we appreciate him joining us. also coming up. the latest on the breaking news. the manhunt in france. plus how do you fight against radical ideology. first find out how you can show your support for those impacted by the "charlie hebdo" attack. go to cnn.com/impact. we'll be right back.

ening, the manhunt in france for two armed and dangerous suspects in

the deadly terrorist attack on "charlie hebdo." in the war on terror how do you fight a radical ideology. joining me to talk about that. nicholas christophe and a foreign approximately see analyst and author of "miral." great conversation last night. can we continue it. let's talk now. what do you believe was the strategy rule behind the attack yesterday? >> polarization and radicalization. what al qaeda did in iraq was very easy. they went in. separated the sunni. soft targets. mosques, schools, markets. and when they start answering back. the sunni were an easy target for al qaeda to start recruiting from them. then when al qaeda stepped in in iraq and took over. but there was a success actually. and the success what petraeus did. general petraeus separated al qaeda from sunni. extremist from muslims. the surge was american surge with an iraqi surge.

they fought al qaeda together. what al qaeda want in europe is to -- not only an attack on our freedoms and liberty what everybody say. also an attack. they want to reach the audience muslim audience and separate them and start recruiting. >> that's what, fareed said. more importantly realize this is a fight. within islam, yes? >> absolutely. and i think that -- that she is right. part of the aim here was not just to abandon something that they saw as an attack on islam but to empower the french people. and to create a -- this this separation. and this and a crackdown. and i mean that, there is a the good chance they will achieve that. all across europe now. we are seeing that it has happened. >> the more they segregate communities, the more the right-wing in europe. even in france. in italy. in in the uk. in sweden. as we saw.

the more they segregate them. the more they will crush them. the more these commune thee will be vulnerable actually to to radicalization also the ideology. to propaganda. especially people that are borderline -- with krifscrisis of identity. very easy for them. then you will have a serious problem. >> so i thought it was interesting. that reza said. long conversation before we went on the air. this was just religion. class and culture. y have problem with it. europe has a much greater one. and, muslims in in britain. living in communities.

they don't feel part of britain. in france more than anywhere else. unless one has a since of belonging to a community. a since of opportunity. then i think people do feel. >> that makes them easy targets for recruitment and radicalization. >> absolutely. i am european actually. an italian passport. my daughter was born in italy. it took me 14 yerz toars to get citizenship. this is hong it takew long it takes-up to become part of the system. most our skin tone are treated as guests. i was on italian television. one of the first foreign anchors on television a minister minister of berlusconi said who are you, you are a guest you are black, you should not open your mouth. this is the way communities are treated. there is an opportunity here. the opportunity its because of the failure of ser to sayorry to say of the security services a huge failure in france now. they need to recruit and

collaborate more with the communities. who is going to spy, some how to collaborate, and tell you who is radicalized who is not? communities themselves. the more integrate they'd are. the more they will collaborate with you. >> how does this affect europe's role in fighting isis? >> mean there is no single solution here. a million solutions. one has to impede travel back and forth. one has to improve intelligence. france ironically had the best intelligence agency on the continent in this area. one has to end the sense of marginalization. do what one can. one has to harden targets. one has to above all. make sure people don't have access to biological or chemical weapons. in that case it wouldn't be 12 people being killed. it would be 120 or 1200. so here is here is there are going to be more attacks. unfortunately it is going to increase the chance they're going to be lethal.

we can mitigate the ris tubing some degree. >> we can mitigate the risk. >> stand by. 11:00. we will continue our conversation now with our guests. finish your thought. and then christiane amanapour is with us as well. >> many things. many information abut these brothers in france. as remember russians knew a lot of things abut tsarnaevs. europeans feel. today many people on the website say americans clab rate lessollaborate less with europeans when it comes to