now they have the elite s.w.a.t. team surrounded that building. they are in communication with the men. the men have communicated to authorities that they do want to die as martyrs. they have not taken it. that is the situation right now. medical teams are on that's very important, it gives comfort for an assault by the elite squad and the head of the elite s.w.a.t. team does have the authority to commence an assault, if he thinks he can do so without endangering the life of the hostage. that's how we got to where we are right now it could take hours it could take moments. let's check in with barbara starr, actually let's go to fred pleitkin. what's the latest movements from your vantage point? >> well chris, you're right. to say that this is a very controlled situation, at the same time the outcome of this is very certain. we can see the police even as they surrounded this building

are still setting up their perimeter. we've been in one place at a police checkpoint outside the town were you talking about. and then all of a sudden the police came and started moving us out to some other places and right now we've been taken to some sort of crisis center they're trying to set up where we're going to be setting up shop as well. and working from there. but the police said there's a lot of movement there's a lot of police cars driving around, lights flashing a lot of police convoys moving around. they're fortifying this perimeter around here. i wouldn't say the police are necessarily on edge. but they certainly are very focused. when they give orders they expect you to follow those orders immediately and they certainly don't take questions very well. so they know what they're doing and they're very focused on their operation. the other thing we have to say, you're right to say there are a lot of medical teams around here. we saw several medical helicopters on the ground ready

for any sort of assistance should that be necessary. we also know that is in the town we're in where all of this is taking place, which is right around the corner from charles de galle airport, the planes literally land right over your head the houses have been shut down. people have been told to stay inside their houses and the schools are on lockdown as well. there was one principal said he was inside his school around 10:00 a.m. local time when helicopters started circling overhead and he got the order to lock the schools, don't let any of the students out so that's where they are at this point in time. this operation is going on this operation is going smoothly it seems to us as though it seems to be very well managed and the police appear to be having everything under control. but at the same time they are very well aware of the sensitivities of what they're doing right now. >> fred what you're saying squares with our understanding that the way they secured this area was they started with this specific getting the suspects

into this one building. finding out about the hostage and then sealing points of egress, so you know their ability to get away from there. and then started sealing off the surrounding communities, made sure they could get in their support services of the medical services which they now have in place. so the question fred is do you get any indication there, that they are kind of settling in, for a waiting game? or does it seem that they're getting ready to stage for some type of activity? >> it's very difficult to tell it doesn't appear to be that they are not in any sort of rush. they're settling in they're setting up shop. at the same time as i said there's a lot of movement. there's a lot of police cars going around. those seem to be fortifying the perimeter as well. so it does appear to us as though they're not going to rush anything at this point. i think one of the things you said is that they might very well try a forceful operation. the last thing they want to do is endanger the life of the hostage that the two men are

apparently holding. at this point in time it seems as though the police now that they've located these suspects and have had essentially cornered them inside that place, aren't getting-- are getting ready for some sort of waiting game. that is still a very sensitive operation. as all of this drama has unfolded over the past couple of days, these people of course are very brutal and are willing to take lives, so it's certainly something that the police are not going to toy with i've been talking to you about this. there's a huge line of police vans going past me right now. and that's to your point of the police seem to be coming in forces into this area setting up shop in this area putting up checkpoints in this area and slowly trying to put, press where they want. trying to put the people here where they want them to be. which in most cases is going to be inside and in safety and are just deploying their forces you can see, i'm inside this village where the operation is taking place, how the police are

patrolling the street. there are groups of six, seven police officers with submachine guns patrolling all the streets. saying to calm down the people. in these policelaces, many of them afraid after having seen what's unfolding here the past couple of days chris. >> and fred we also heard obviously because of proximity to the airport, although there's no direct threat to it they've diverted flights, they've delayed flights. do you think that's just consist wnt them kind of maintaining these outer circles of control to make sure they have every resource they can there. and that everything is controlled? >> yeah i mean it's interesting that you mention that it is quite remarkable how close the area that we're in is actually to the runway of charles de galle. it's nowhere near the terminal building. so i don't think the airport operations the passenger

operations are in any sort of jeopardy. however when you stand on the proximity to where the location of this is the planes are maybe a couple of hundred feet above your head. and as they come into land here. there was a big a-380 that just landed over our head just a couple of minutes ago. so we did have those reports that at least two flights were defect dwerted. that might have been in the early stages. they weren't exactly sure where these people were. and they were trying to set things up at that point in time. might have asked some flights to divert. but at this point it seems that situation is under control, as these suspects are obviously inside a building. it doesn't seem as though the airport operations at this point in time are in jeopardy. at least we are seeing planes land at this point. but i have to say, it is very very close to the airport. >> anything can you find out about the nature of the

operation, get back to me and let me know we're very fortunate to have some of cnn's best standing right next to me to help me understand the situation, we have jim bitterman, holly guarani and jim sciutto. one of the main assessments i'm getting from our sources near the investigation is they're trying to figure out who they're dealing with in these men. what do they know so far? >> you have to think of these attacks as murder/suicides, that's their m.o. they communicated to the police that they want to die as martyrs, that's a familiar pattern for these kinds of attacks. it's a disadvantage for police. because if you don't want to live of course you're willing to take risks that the police are not willing to take. that makes this operation much more difficult as they go forward. they have to keep that in mind. that's why they're going to move gingerly and we've seen that over the last several days. when they've had a nugget of information that's led them to the towns northeast of paris and then to the forest we were talking about last night, they can't just run in there, guns

blazing because that's a tremendous risk. they know these guys are heavily armed. and listen if you don't care about dying right, you take risks that the police are not going to take. that's the situation they have right now. plus of course the information they have at least one hostage raises it to a whole other level. >> that's a big building who knows how many people are working there. >> keep in mind that a gas station attendant yesterday although says he spotted these two suspects said he believes he may have seen not just automatic weapons in the vehicle, but also potentially a rocket-propelled grenade. this is all something that authorities are going to have to keep in mind including this information in the report that they are ready to die as martyrs, as the mp was put saying on television it is the most dangerous situation for law enforcement. >> the gas station attendant was safe and sound afterwards they didn't try to kill him and this morning, if this guy was on french tv this morning, an employee at the factory.

met them as they came in thought they were police coming in and they said leave because we don't want to kill civilians. it's clear that they're not wantonly taking lives, but we saw them wantonly take lives here. >> there's a method to their madness, when they carried out the shooting just down the street from us they came in with a list of names, the cartoonists, the editors, they separated the women, they had the targets, clearly the police are targets, had you the horrible situation on the street just around the corner. the policeman begging for his life and they killed him as well. they didn't kill the gas station attendant. there's some method to their madness, we should for the police from the police perspective, clearly they have no hesitation to kill police tremendous risk for security forces as they carry out the operation. >> reporting about the background of these guys especially the younger brother, his whole life has been a wannabe. he wanted to be a football player he couldn't make it he wanted to be a rap star he couldn't make it. maybe now he wants to be a

terrorist. you know and i guess he's made it to some extent here. but you know who knows where, what his frame of mind is and basically, they're not exactly what we portray them in the first couple of hours. professional hard core and all the rest of them trained. they're aftermath, after-action thing that they're cog now, shows a lot of panic. >> well unfortunately they've been an example of the obvious, hala no longer about hard-core fighters about an area they want to take control of their homeland. they're one-offs misfits, people who are disillusioned, who grab onto the false fanaticism of jihad. >> following the familiar script of disenfranchised people with a criminal past. in many cases, petty criminality. in the case of the younger suspect here as well. when you look at the situation, i mean it looks as though it's going to also follow a familiar

script which is holding a hostage, eventually at some point hopefully this will peacefully, but from what we're hearing, all schools are on lockdown here. police officers are telling people parents who are coming to fetch their children at school stay indoors. and if there is a hostage, imagine the terror that's going through that person's mind. >> there's a common profile here you've seen it as well with americans who join jihad, including some of the americans who have gone to fight for isis. folks without a job. who fell out of school they had a criminal past. it's interesting, i've spoken to jeh johnson, the dhs head department of homeland security. he says sometimes they're surprised, very well-educated, smart people are drawn to the cause of jihad as well. it's one difficulty for u.s. intelligence french intelligence here. the profile is not necessarily one-dimensional. when you're making these judgments as to who you follow, as we know they followed these guys they surveilled them and stopped surveil them. >> the u.s. had them on a no-fly

list. >> possibly not communicated to the french. when woo you're making the judgment calls, who do we allocate resources to who do we not? >> is it a false expectation, when i hear the uninitiated hears, you had them on a list? you were watching? it seems to assume that you have complete control of their movements, that's naive, though. >> the trouble is the list is long. in france 5,000 are known or suspected as terrorists that was a conversation i had with a french counterterrorism unit. he said there are too many of them too few of us they can't allocate the resources. gym and i were talking about this earlier. if you were going to follow anybody, wouldn't it be the guy going to train in yemen? >> they did know. they communicated that to u.s. authorities. >> but the french president just minutes ago said we've known minutes ago. addressing the countrymen and women, wean known for months that the possibility of terrorist attack was real tangible but as jim was saying the list is long resources are limited. not just surveillance resources,

but also the resources to protect very well-known targets, like this magazine behind us. >> there was an officer with one of the cartoonists, though. >> but the police van that had been stationed outside. >> that had been moved. >> that protection detail had been downgraded. >> that's going to be dissected. >> the number of police mistakes that one could look at if you wanted to. there are a number of things here. the protection close protection guy that was with charb, there's no evidence at all he got a shot off at all in his whole role in life not to demean somebody who died in the line of duty but his whole role was to protect the man who was killed. >> when we talk about the policing remotely and while we're waiting here there's a pause in the action and i'm not getting any further reporting of action on the scene, there's such frustration among the french about how this was able to happen and if they were known, did the u.s. know but not tell the french had? what did the french know but not tell the u.s.?

there's such a balance that goes on between urgency and expectations of liberty. when you're in a moment like this people are in favor of any kind of surveillance every kind of control. but when there is not an imminency like this a horror like this people don't want you following them surveilling their data that's especially true here in a very secularized france. very into individual freedom. >> the french are famous for doing a lot of intervention following people tapping phones and the rest of it in a way that the america are not as much. but in any case, there's certainly a much greater idea that a person's private life is to be respected here. >> and so that's why we've seen presidents having affairs and nobody batting an eye. that sort of thing. not like you would see -- >> strict laws against it as well. >> are you in this country, the owner of your image. you can't have your that's to say you can't have your picture

taken on the street just like that. you have if we do that kind of thing for commercial purposes, we have to get permission we have to get a signed sort of release. it's a different kind of a thing. >> could you look at the difference between a country like the uk the number of cctv cameras there is really amazing. some of that arises not just from the recent history of islamic terrorism. but going back to ira terrorism. i counted the number of times i was photographed or videoed on the way to my office and was something like 100 times on a two-mile trip. france has not made that decision. oftentimes this arises from necessity and reaction. new york city didn't have the cameras it had until after 9/11. the new yorkers, are aware of their privacy but that's a sacrifice they were willing to make after 9/11 because they wanted to be able to have more control. we know the concentrations of resources. >> i want to update what what is going on at the scene. time son the side of the forces that have surrounded the area. they believe they've done an

assessment about what they would call contingency risk within this building which looks very large to me. jim was giving a number of employees that seem -- >> four employees. >> it seems like a very big building. maybe we don't understand what's going on. but those close to it on the side of authorities believe they do know they believe the exposure is somewhat controlled. they believe that these men from what they communicated so far will not surrender. and will not release the hostage. and because of that the planning will have to go in the direction of an assault. and they are putting into place the different tactics they have. given the confinements of the area what the areas and opportunities they have to get in. limited exposure of danger to those who will be doing the assault and anyone who may be inside. that's where the situation stands right now. alisyn as we go back to new york. >> chris, stick around with us if you would, because we're going to bring in ed davis, the former boston police commissioner he is the man who commanded the entire city's

response to the boston marathon suspects and the search for them and the man-hunt that went on. mr. davis thanks so much for joining us this morning. can you tell us what you believe is happening behind the scenes as law enforcement and authorities there in the city outside of paris try to negotiate with these terrorists? >> good morning, alisyn. right now, they have set up a command post so all of the senior police officials along with probably some military advisers are in the command post at this point in time. and what they're trying to do is get as much information from inside the scene as they can. so the helicopter is very helpful with that. they have video links that they can send down real-time photos of what's happening on the ground. the perimeter is secure there are thousands of officers that have been deployed to this. so this really is a waiting game at this point in time. and the whole intent of the project now is to keep them

contained, and maintain a dialogue with them. there are positive signs here. these individuals have state aid cording to press reports, that they don't want to kill a woman, if the hostage is a female that mitigates in favor of the negotiators. so they will be working very closely on trying to reason with these individuals, and trying to figure out a way that they can keep that hostage safe. >> chris, go ahead. >> mr. davis i want to go back to what you said it's a good sign that there had been reports that they wouldn't kill a woman, this comes from one of the women involved in the "charlie hebdo" office. when they came in they pointed a gun at her head and she later told reporters that they said don't worry, stay calm we won't kill you, and one of the brothers screamed to the other brother -- we don't shoot women.

we don't shoot women. one woman was killed in that massacre but their intention, according to this victim who survived was not to kill women. how do negotiators use that little nugget to try to get this hostage out? >> they realize that seems to be a way that these two suspects operate. they're simply relying on what they've done in the past and what kind of information they're garnering from the back and forth that's occurring at the scene right now. so they have to take their time. they are working with psychiatrists and psychologists advising them on the best way to deal with these individuals. but the situation is contained right now, it's a much better situation right now from the police perspective than it was 24 hours ago. we know where they are, there are people at risk or at least

one person at risk right now. but beyond that this is going to take some time. this is not going to end very quickly. they're going to keep talking to them. and a lot of it depends on exactly what the terrorists want to do. unfortunately, they are in command of the timetable here. >> >> i want to ask you about a parallel about what we're seeing now and what you dealt with in boston. let's catch everybody up on how we got to where we are. op your screen you're looking at an industrial area northeast of paris, that is where french authorities believe they have the suspects contained. they have an elite s.w.a.t. team in place, they have a command anywhere place who has the control to launch an assault. however, there are variables, they believe there's a hostage inside, it's a female. they have closed off any area of exit there because the number one mandate for the french authorities we're told by

sources close to the investigation, is that these two men cannot be allowed to leave this area at any cost. the surrounding village has been shut down. the schools are shut down this is near charles de galle airport. there is no direct threat to charles de galle airport. how did they get to this industrial area. the manhunt has been active all through the night. there's surveillance successful from the air and helicopters, they had eyes on the suspects in a car, on the road. they believe the suspects became aware of that. abandoned the vehicle. entered into a wooded area north of paris on foot. there's a massive manpower action going on here. some 80,000 people. at some point another vehicle was commandered, that's how we wound up where we are right now. ed davis, when i suggest those circumstances to you, it does sound a little familiar to what

had you to deal with in very different circumstances, heavily urban area, the brother knowing where he was, running around you not knowing how many people he could be working with or sympathizing with him. how did you handle those variables and seal him into an area that became more controllable? >> i think there are striking similarities to what's happening here and what happened in boston in 2013. we flooded the area with police you should also understand there is a, a medical response that's being coordinated here ems, and a fire response. some of the equipment that the police will use are incendiary in nature you need to have fire personnel standing by. this is a very complex process. the helicopter is very helpful right now it gives you command and control of the area. and you, you basically have a situation where you flood the

area make sure you're pushing the suspects into a location where they can be the least destructive and then you try to pin them down. that's exactly what the parisienne authorities have been able to accomplish in the last 24 hours. >> as you can see from your screen you're dealing with a pretty complex structure. and what does that do in terms of creating risk and challenges to any assault? >> the larger the structure, the more difficult the process is you want to try to get them isolated in a particular area and maintain some type of control over that area. it's hard to it's hard to say exactly what strategies it's probably inappropriate to talk about specific strategies on the technical side. but believe me the police are

doing everything that they can, to get a clear picture of what's happening inside where these suspects are. and to see if there's an opportunity to intervene and get this victim out safely. but the truth of the matter is as long as they're maintaining a dialogue and they haven't harmed anyone, it's a waiting game. >> all right. ed davis you're going to stay with us please we need your expertise very much throughout the morning as we watch this we're being told it could take hours. but let's get to the scene, atika shubert. fred pleitgen is there. we've heard from sources close to the investigation that they are in dialogue that the men have said they are willing to die as martyrs, they do not want to release the hostage. although they've said in the past they're not here to harm women. what is it like near the scene? >> well i'm less than a kilometer away from where it's all happening and here it's eerily quiet. residents have been told to stay inside their homes, they

shuttered their windows. police are in their yards. we can see out into the building. we can't see anything happening at this point. they're not letting our camera out there to take any pictures. but what i do see is a number of emergency vehicles have been brought in including an ambulance it looks like some of the fire department and there have been helicopters earlier overhead. we do not see them now at the moment. they've completely sealed off all of the roads going into the industrial center. and as i said what really strikes me here is just how quiet it is. all the residents staying inside. waiting for word from police on what is happening. >> and we've been hearing that there was a pause to wait for medical teams to get in place. did you see any moving by? have you seen any activity in that regard recently? >> yes. just in the last few minutes i've seen ambulance come in from the fire department coming up from the south of the industrial

area. and have also heard a numb of ambulances also going in as well. but in fact you might be able to hear another one coming in now. so we do see medical teams coming in. we don't know what they're in position for. none of the residents here have heard any shots so far. so it seems to be quiet. which certainly lends credence to the statement that they're possibly in talks with the brothers inside. >> atika, we hear from ed davis, the term "flooding the zone." we know they're bringing as many resources there that they can. they want to limit the variables of contingency that could develop, if there's any assault on behalf of the suspects themselves. what got to us this point was and how they got that hostage was that there was a shoot-out and some activity at a checkpoint on the road earlier. what do we know about that atika? >> we don't have many details.

what we know is that they apparently stole a car, a little further north of this area. and then ended up at this printing house. we don't know why specifically they came to this industrial area and specifically to this sort of it's almost like a publishing leaflets and advertising agency. why they chose that area to come to, it's still something we're trying to understand. actually right now i am seeing a convoy of police driving through. they appear to be motorcycle police going to the area. it looks like they may be escorting people possibly an official or residents into the area now. >> and do you -- atika, is it safe to say, though that what you've seen in terms of activity of amassing assets there has slowed down? or just a steady stream of different-colored vehicles and different types of assets still amassing? >> steady stream of different kinds of vehicles we've seen from the fire department from the police traffic, from the

highway police to also tactical units. we're seeing all kinds of different police coming into the area. and putting, putting themselves into position. meanwhile, there's a number of police that are just simply trying to keep residents away and safely inside. and we can hear the sirens constantly around the area. >> now one of the considerations they're going to have atika, is of course daylight right? it's a very overcast day obviously. but nighttime is very different than daytime. we know they have eyes in the sky with the helicopters. do you see anything there about them equipping themselves from nighttime? do you see people with equipment that would be specific to those requirements? >> we don't see anything at the moment there is heavy fog in this area and that may be one reason why we haven't seen the helicopters in the last half-hour or so. but we don't see any night equipment being brought out just yet. what we're really seeing is actually a lot of a lot more

medical stuff being brought in. i've seen a number of ambulances people from the fire department. so it's hard to say whether or not they're settling in for the long haul to go into the night. but i think it's safe to presume that they're prepared for the worst. >> right and interesting, we're hearing from sources close to the investigation that they do anticipate atika, and you watching at home that the men inside do have access to media do have access to the internet or a radio. so they're being very careful about what they reveal about any tactical response. but they do want the men to know how well surrounded how well fortified the area is. let's go back to new york. michaela? >> all right, chris, we'll get back live to you in paris in a moment. we want to turn to paul cruickshank, cnn terrorism analyst and jim archides a former defense department official counterterrorism official and president of the foreign policy political action committee or d-pac.

paul i want to start with you. we've talked with you about the threat that exists in europe. and i specifically want to talk about that given the fact there's a hostage situation, these men are surrounded by a very large police presence. on the ground there in france. it's important for them those authorities that are dealing with this really urgent threat right now, to understand who they're dealing with. so talk about the context that we know that these men have spent some time in yemen and syria. what kind of threat does this pose to them right now? >> well michaela i think that the key part of this is the fact that one of these brothers interfaced with al qaeda in yemen, trained with al qaeda in yemen. and not just anybody can do that. i think they would likely this brother was recruited by the group. and perhaps swore an oath of loyalty, then received training in yemen. now that would have been training in using guns perhaps bomb-making training. perhaps training in other forms

of terrorist tradecrafts, they've been very disciplined in their attacks. who they selected to target. for example, when they went into the newspaper offices, they executed the people involved in that newspaper. and police officers outside, rather than innocent sort of passersby or other civilians, let us clarify. so i think they're dealing with perhaps here a seasoned terrorist, michaela. >> it's interesting, you talk about disciplined, but yet improvisation obviously has had to be used here jim. let's bring you in. these men have been on the run. they have arguably been running scared. this is somewhat of a chaotic scene across the french countryside that poses a challenge for these people that are trying to bring this situation to a close. especially when you add the added element of a hostage. >> absolutely. i think paul is right on to an extent. he talks about how they were trained in yemen and certainly

they knew how to acquire weapons and execute the attack and they had an escape plan and all these things. so that's certainly an unquestionably speaks to a degree of professionalism. yet, on the other hand these guys are kind of a wash in contradiction. you have said who dropped his national identity card in the car. so is that incredibly sloppy? or, another question to be raised is did these guys want the i.d. card to be found and did they want to be famous? right? the other question is they talk about wanting to die as martyrs. okay but they've taken a hostage and are trying to prolong the standoff. if they were prepared to die as martyrs, why didn't they go out in a quote-unquote blaze of glory in paris. they had an escape plan. they had network for a little while to be able to depend on. at this point they seem to be improvising and i would guess that they didn't expect to get

this far. they didn't expect maybe to survive this far. and then they're off-script. >> off-script is always that great big question mark of how it plays out from here. paul i'm curious to hear your reaction to what the president of france had to say, president hollande spoke of this terrorist threat that has existed in france for some time. they've known of planned attacks, but have been able to foil them. these men were known in france they were known, they were 0 no-fly lists here in the united states. yet, yet it's impossible or it's a challenge to track these foreign fighters that have returned to their homeland. talk about that. >> well it's very difficult indeed for the french. they're watching around 5,000 known islamist extremists right now in france. they don't have the manpower to observe all these people 24/7. they can only observe just a small fraction of them 24/7. 400 nationals from france are believed to be in syria

fighting 200 are believed to have coming back to france. so there's sort of this unprecedented threat from these people coming back people going, people interfacing with terrorist groups overseas. 50 to 100 french nationals are thought to have gone to yemen in recent years. some of them developing connections with jihadist groups like al qaeda in yemen there. it appears one of the brothers that was his trajectory that he connected with this group, al qaeda in yemen. a big question is going to be did he meet the american terrorist anwar al alaki, there are some reports that he did meet with him and anwar al alaki was determined to use recruit back in europe. determined to hit the cartoonists as well. so a lot of questions about that at this hour. >> paul cruickshank, jim arkedis, we'll ask you to stick with us we return live to paris

and chris cuomo. >> all right, mick. we are prepared to die as martyrs. that is what these two suspects have reportedly told those from the french authorities who are dialoguing with them right now. we believe they have a hostage inside it is a female. they came to be surrounded and what you're seeing in your television screen right now, they are in a small industrial area northeast of paris, they are isolated in a building. they got here after commandering a vehicle, they've been chased throughout the night. they are still believed to be armed. while they are saying they are preparing to kill themselves as martyrs or to be a martyr they have not done that to this point. when they have many opportunities, one more piece in a mixed message that we have received from these suspects through the authorities. now we have new information about what they may have done during this hijacking, commandering of this vehicle. jim sciutto what did you hear.

>> so the driver of this car when they hijacked another vehicle this morning, he said they told him as they kicked him out of the car, tell the media we're al qaeda in yemen this is similar to what one of the eye witnesses to the shooting yesterday said as they were running away they said tell the media we're al qaeda in yemen. this matches up with what u.s. intelligence has been hearing from their french counterparts that they believe the older brother, said kouachi travelled to millenniumen in 200yemen in 2011 and trained with them. when i speak to u.s. counterterrorism officials, i say what are the two groups that worry you the most and they said al qaeda in the arabian peninsula has its sights set on the u.s. and the corazon group. >> the way they held their weapons, the way they moved.

they were not panicking, they moved as a pair. there were situations where one was covering the other with fire. you saw the tight groupings of bullets, when he killed that poor police officer on the ground the former delta force commander said he noticed he used single shots, he didn't have it set to automatic, which would have indicated someone who might have been a little bit jumpy on the trigger. this was a guy under control. >> and al qaeda of course did have members of "charlie hebdo" staff on a wanted list rights? they did have their pictures for years. there was a firebomb attack here at the offices in 2011 there is a consistency there. >> the editor stephane charbonnier, otherwise known as charb, the the cartoonist was wanted dead or alive on the "inspire" magazine the al qaeda publication. he had the security detail and his police officer, protection officer was killed as well in the massacre. so yes indeed this was a very well-known target. and as we with discussing that's a question for authorities, why there wasn't

more security in front of this building. and you're talking about al qaeda in the arabian peninsula, yemen. the justice minister to cnn yesterday confirming that the younger of the two kouachi brothers visited yemen in 2005. there seems to be some consistency in the relationship between these suspects and al qaeda. al qaeda, which of course as you we all know and many of our viewers know encourages people to claim responsibility for attacks against journalists, cartoonists and the like. >> as does isis but it feeds into something, jim, which we're seeing this kind of demented competition, among terror groups to be among the mainstream who is creating the most violence. >> last time that al qaeda in yemen turned newspaper france was the underwear bomber. he took off from here. and he was trained up in yemen. and we've got to think, i think we've got his underwear bomb in yemen and took off from here headed to the united states.

>> this is a sick game right? they thrive on not only for recruiting but for their sense of power. on killing. how well they can kill and recently a lot of the oxygen has been sucked out of the room by isis all the success they've had in iraq recruiting foreign fighters you hear it as some degree of aqap saying look at us. there's been some cooperation between these groups we don't know that. they're not necessarily at loggerheads but there's a competition for attention. >> isis had been asking for people to go off, soliciting the lone wolf. the disenfranchised, the disaffected, the mentally ill perhaps, go do something on your own, just say you're doing it for us. but no real connection to them. this however, this al qaeda outfit aqap, taking someone, training them bringing them back. as i understand it this is a high-level consideration. certainly for u.s. authorities in terms of people going away

learning how to be real fighters and now coming back and creating havoc. >> remember the principle concern from aqap from u.s. counterintelligence to this point had been sneaking explosives on to airplanes. the underwear bomber this famous bomb-maker that's the intelligence they've been focusing on. this opens up a new front in effect. training fighters sending them to the west to carry out attacks. >> i think what's frightening for people here is that the lone wolf self-radicalized perhaps we might have seen it in ottawa and sydney in the cafe crisis. in this particular case there's a higher degree of organization. at this point it's the idea behind the attack is the same. but the toll is much higher. we're looking -- >> i was going to say, is the french authorities have been worried about this idea of people coming back. >> they have a lot of people. >> they have a disproportionate number of foreign fighters. >> and they have a lot of young people who are disaffected, who could be under the influence of either isis or al qaeda.

and we've done stories about this about the parents that are distrault to see their sons and daughters either self-radicalizing or being recruited actively. plane tickets paid to turkey. so they can get across the border to syria. and be trained. the authorities are just absolutely panicked. in fact have said before christmas, the prime minister said this about people coming back, slipping in speaking perfect french as these guys did here. and passing for french. and as such being able to come in under the radar, and disappear as these guys sorts of did. >> but, jim, they're not passing as french they are french. they were born in france. they are not pretending to be french and these isis groups al qaeda groups that give identity that provide a sense of identity to young, probably mentally deranged people who don't feel like they have an identity or a sense of belonging in a group. that is where the real danger lies. >> the figure here is 1,000 foreign fighters in france, either who have gone or

attempted to go. >> how does that compare with the u.s.? >> the figure in the u.s. is a dozen. a factor of 100. >> if they're right. >> exactly. it could be higher. but still in the realm of two digits right? so imagine the sense of alarm in the u.s. if that figure increased by a factor of 100. and you know that gets to it the other thing is you know about mentally deranged. i think that what when you talk to some counterterror officials, they'll say these folks aren't necessarily crazy. they're making conscious decisions, misguided decisions, but conscious decisions, that's one of their worries, right? you don't have to be a nut job. >> there's no question. one of the things one of my sources has been plying me with throughout this process is you know make sure you show to your viewing public look at what they do. you know the idea that these acts these massacres are a calling card somehow a recruitment tool. look at what these people did. look who they attacked look how they did it.

look how disorganized look how fumbling they are. you know that these are not superheroes. that these, that these men are you know that this there's a cowardice involved and they can say they don't want to hurt women. but they have terrorized everyone they can. >> i think we need to underline the so-called defenders of the prophet muhammed the last person they executed in the street was a muslim. >> the police officer. >> his first name is ahmed. therefore the so-called defenders of the faith have no problems killing muslims and it is the case in the middle east too. >> it was only a couple of weeks ago we were covering the attack in pakistan right when they killed dozens of muslim children right? so this is any idea the identity is so skewed the sense of the cause is so skewed. but it has appealed and it has very broad appeal. that's the concern. >> u.s. intelligence officials say something that was counterintuitive to me not only do they want to kill perceived enemies on the terrorist agenda however, they are also trying to create a rift within islam

itself. very often there's a call for moderate muslims, come out, condemn these people. but the extremists want a rift within islam and they want the west and they want the civilized and the peace-loving people to be afraid of islam. because that feeds their own narrative, that they are being victimized by the rest of the world. it's very sophisticated negativity in play. >> no question their sense of who is a muslim who isn't a muslim is skewed as well. you can be a muslim and they say, if you don't follow their crazy interpretation and violent and frankly medievel interpretation of the faith then you are just as much a target as i am as a christian or someone else is. so it's you know this is the thing when you talk it's a very sensitive issue with many muslim leaders with being called constantly to condemn these attacks. when many of them will say, that's a reasonable expectation from some. but many of them will say wirks do we have to defend you know not defend why do we have to condemn these crazies?

that should be understood. >> you hear that as well. >> we've heard moderate muslim leaders here speak out in the last couple of days. the same way they're speaking out in moderate tones, the same ones under threat. get threats from their own folks. >> but it winds up being circumstantial. of course it's perverse it's bastardized, misplaced, but they are using the language and the ideas of a religion in furtherens of their own violent means, the terrorists so it does put, if not an onus a somewhat of a pressure on moderates and people who believe they are true believers of the faith to distinguish themselves. because to the uninitiated it seems like they're just doing what muslims are supposed to do. >> and that is criticism that you will hear from within islam, in the middle east it's not just folks from the outside saying hey, why aren't you doing this? you will hear this from prominent commentators inside islam saying we as a faith have to speak up and stand up to it. yes, there is a risk. i was in london for a number of

years there were constant demands for london imams to condemn terror. and many of them were fearful about reprisal attacks. but other was say you have to stand up. because this is the only way our faith can move forward. when you look at the folks at "charlie hebdo," they were not muslims, but they took a tremendous risk in speaking out. >> one of the things that people forget is when the so-called moderate muslim leaders, we heard from a mosque in egypt, the seat of sunni islam, these people who are members of groups like isis in al qaeda in the arabian peninsula, do not see them as authority figures. they can say whatever they want all day long. people who are members of the groups and determined to fight jihad, are not going to listen to them. it's a nice sentiment, but will it have impact? these figures have much more authority over their followers. >> hopefully what has the greatest impact is what we're seeing right now. right now we have two men who have in an act of extreme

cowardice, after killing the innocent and terrorizing people who have no ill will toward them until their recent actions, they've take an woman hostage and are sealed in a building saying they're willing to die as martyrs in refusing to give her up. alisyn michaela in new york. as we get developments from the scene we'll bring them to you. >> thanks so much. we want to bring in right now, gary nesner. a former chief of the fbi crisis negotiation unit. is the author of "stalling for time." he's on the phone for us this morning from roanoke, virginia thanks for being here. >> good morning. >> where do you begin with suspects like this? >> the important thing to look at is the behavior. what they're doing is they're fleeing from the police and they're trying to keep from being caught. that's why they're holding a hostage. in this case not to press a demand but to shield themselves from police intervention. so on the one hand they say

they're willing to die. but by holding a hostage, you're saying to the police i don't want you to hurt me. so the police are really going about their business in the appropriate way. they're isolating the situation, containing it in a smallest possible area. and keeping a dialogue open. as this is the most proven method to which they can secure the safe release of the hostage. so that's pretty classic you know conduct that we're seeing from the police. >> so once you know this about the suspects that they really don't want to be caught or they don't want to die, or they would have exercised different actions, then what exactly do you say to them? >> well i want to clarify a little bit. to say you want to die and be willing to die -- you know it's more complex than most people think. i'm not suggesting that they won't, at the end of the day, harm hostage or commit suicide. but i don't think we need to automatically conclude that's what they will do.

the longer this goes on the more dialogue that the police are able to engage in it increases the likelihood that the hostage will come out of this alive. so that's their objective right now. they're buying time. they're trying to slow the situation down and getting these guys to a point where they think a little bit more clearly about their options. >> and when you're a hostage negotiator do you make deals with guys like this? >> well in this case the deal with you know surrender or die. the french i'm sure are not going to consider allowing these guys to take their hostage and leave or or submit to any other significant demands that they might have. they might exchange food or do something else like that. but that's about the limits of what we would expect to see. >> in your history, and experience with this when people claim that they want to go out as martyrs, as they two did. do you negotiate differently with them? >> not really.

again, it's pretty classic for folks in this type of situation, terrorists to say, you know i'm willing to die, you don't scare me you try to come in here get me i just as soon kill myself. you hear all these kinds of things. but it's pretty inherent in human beings that despite saying that maybe even politically believing that there's still a natural desire to survive. and to live. and so one might say these guys are ambivalent. part of them may want to die, but part of them wants to live and that's the part that the police are trying to appeal to. >> in your experience, how long do these things generally last? >> well i mean it could last hours it could last days days and beyond. there's really no clear pattern to this that. and it is fatiguing, these guys have been on the run for a couple of days. they probably have not had much rest. they've been evading police.

had some confrontations from the public sector. you know i would expect them to be pretty tired. and exhausted perhaps. so that that's a factor that's going to come into play as well. the french are very well trained, i've worked with the french negotiators, they're quite competent and i'm sure they'll do an excellent job in doing all they can to resolve this peacefully. >> in your experience knowing what you know about these two suspects and how all of this goes down is it possible for this to end well? >> yes. i mean it's certainly possible. and we've seen this in many other cases, where they finally come to the conclusion that perhaps surrendering and having their day in court to some extent may further their cause or you know make them martyrs in a different sort of way. it's just difficult to say. i'm not inside the heads of these two fellows and we don't know what their thinking is but i would suggest to you that

again the longer it goes on the more favorably it tends to be. although that's not an absolute. >> of course that's interesting and we appreciate your experience and you sharing it with us gary noesner, thank you. >> we'll take a very short break and have more of our continuing coverage of the this dramatic hostage standoff right after this. i've smoked a lot and quit a lot but ended up nowhere. now...i use this. the nicoderm cq patch with unique extended release technology helps prevent the urge to smoke all day.

i want this time to be my last time. that's why i choose nicoderm cq. (son) oh no... can you fix it, dad? yeah, i can fix that. (dad) i wanted a car that could handle anything. i fixed it! (dad) that's why i got a subaru legacy. (vo) symmetrical all-wheel drive plus 36 mpg. i gotta break more toys. (vo) introducing the all-new subaru legacy. it's not just a sedan. it's a subaru. hello... i'm an idaho potato farmer and our big idaho potato truck is still missing. so my buddy here is going to help me find it. here we go. woo who, woah, woah, woah. it's out there somewhere spreading the word about americas favorite potatoes: heart healthy idaho potatoes and the american heart association's go red for women campaign.

if you see it i hope you'll let us know. always look for the grown in idaho seal.

surveillance in the air, helicopters, caught sight of the men in a car. they believe the men knew they were under surveillance they abandoned the car. they took to the woods on foot. the woods were searched they were not found overnight. they were using infrared and night vision to try to find the men in surrounding fields they kept moving the search obviously unsuccessful. early this morning, the men commandered a car. there are discussions at that time we'll report to you, they took the car, were chased into the area where they are now. we're told time is the precious commodity. authorities feel it is on their side. the suspects have told them the terrorists have said they are prepared to die as martyrs and they will not surrender the

hostage. authorities believe perhaps optimistically hopefully, that with time and exhaustion, that may change their disposition. they also point out that it proves there is no planning. these are not seasoned professionals, they may have received training in yemen, one of them in how to shoot, which explains the bullet patterns and the coolness while killing police officers and others. but they didn't have a plan. they don't have a cell helping them to do anything that is intelligent or responsible and that's why they have been running frantically through the night and have gotten themselves into the situation where they are right now. now, this commandering of the car is very important. jim sciutto, you reported that they said to the driver tell them meaning us we are al qaeda from the arabian peninsula. they also told them why they were doing this. why? >> they also told the driver that we're doing this in revenge for the killing of anwar al

alacki the head of al qaeda in yemen in the arabian peninsula. the french authorities believe and u.s. authorities believe the older brother went to train in yemen with al qaeda in 2011. so another comment from the attackers making that direct connection two days ago when the shooting happened they told another eye witness tell the media, we're al qaeda in yemen. so they are advertising that fact fact. >> as jim was saying, one of the brothers did train in yemen and "charlie hebdo," members of their cartoon staff had been wanted people by that terrorist organization. >> the younger of the two kouachi brothers spent time in prison in france. this was someone well known to

authorities before any of this went down. as jim has been reporting and we've been reporting as well according to a member of parliament in french television the two brothers saying we're prepared to die as martyrs. >> we're fortunate to have some of our very best in paris helping me out to explain the situation to you. we have one of the only u.s. reporters at the scene. we have fred pleitgen there, fred are you able to hear us? >> yeah i'm actually able to hear you, chris, i'm at scene right now, as close to the scene as the police is going to get, let us go. we're in the village where all of this is taking place, as we said there's a large police cordon going on. a search going on large parts of the area are cordoned off as well. however, we are very close to the building where all of this is taking place and with me right now i have an official from the area his name is michael tuitous and michael speaks french so we have our own arianna to translate for us. michael, tell me what happened

here this morning? [ speaking french ] know what was going on and then he saw in the news that this was happening in this city where he works. so he's very worried, he saw helicopters vount ss surrounding the city and now he's waiting to have extra information. >> how far is the building where all of this is taking place, away from where we are? and do you know the people who work there? [ speaking french ]

>> about 500 yards away? >> just behind where we are now. >> and do you know the people who work there? [ speaking french ] >> yeah i regularly work with them it's a presenting company. i'm not quite sure who is involved in this. but i hope it's no one that i know. >> how concerned are you for the safety of the residents here your town and how this will unfold? >>. [ feeking french ]

[ speaking french ] >> it's very shocking and impressive and in my life it's the first time that i've seen something quite so big happening here in our city. >> as you can see, chris, people here are very concerned about the situation, but it does appear to us as though the police here have the situation very much under control. as you can see, we are as close to the scene as the police is going to get us it's a little print shop here we hear it's about 500 yards away from where we are this point in time. there's a big police cordon going on. you see a lot of police movements and vans going past here. at this point in time it seems as though the police has everything under control. one of the other things i want to tell you is that the schools are on lockdown at this point in time and the people have been told to stay inside their buildings, there's a school behind us you're not going to be able to see it but the stunlts have been opening the windows and saying charlie, charlie, in support of that satirical magazine hit by this awful terror attack. they are inside being forced to stay inside as the police operation unfolds here in this town.

>> we understand many french resources are organized in colors and we've been hearing that the colors are in place, the different contingency assets are in place. more word from the scene when you get it fred please come and yes, there are reports about school kids being on lockdown now, part of the security in place. a couple of hundred kids kindergarten, elementary school age are locked down in one school. that's just a few hundred yards from the building where the terrorists are holed up. we also have other reporting that is related to this. there was a shooting yesterday, it involved police officers one of them a female officer, she lost her life. they have not apprehended the person who did that shooting but there is information about them. jim? >> the information is that the shooting that happened yesterday, they have not released the i.d. but they have identified who they believe to be the shooter. he was tied to the two gunmen

who took who carried out the shooting here against "charlie hebdo" in the same cell in paris. so that these two shootings are tied. from the beginning, there looked to be some tie. one happened a day after the other and the secretary shooting that took place yesterday, it was a police officer, a woman killed in that attack. >> and the it was a member of what they a group of young people who played football together. the boot chemin area an area of paris, kind of a downtrodden area they may have been radicalized together. >> we've been talking to people who knew the preacher who apparently rald caldicalized the people behind the shooting at "charlie hebdo," used soccer as a recruiting tool. he would go out to the soccer fields woe meet these yuckooung kids that's the way woe establish the connection and

move them along the path to radical islam. >> according to the french press, they have good police sources, quoting someone familiar with the investigation, saying as you both have mentioned that the person who is responsible for the killing of the policewoman in mount rouge, was an associate of theirs and two arrests have taken place among people who are familiar with the shooting yesterday. >> but the suspect, him or herself has not been apprehended. >> no not as far as we know. >> that's a cause for concern for authorities, they have two suspects held newspaper one place. >> i'm sorry, chris, this is painting an entirely different picture. here you have three gun men as well with two potentially connected attacks, it's starting to look more like -- >> a cell of organization and an imam involved. it winds up moving farther and farther away from the traditional notion of lone wolf. one person who is deranged or

self-radicalized and more to an organizational principle. >> except that the attack yesterday in montrouge was fairly random. it was a regular, she was, the police officer who was killed was just directing traffic around a traffic accident. and it looked like someone, somebody had seized the opportunity, terrorists had seized the opportunity to shoot her. >> was unarmed. >> it does raise the question we have all this attention focused on the two attackers who carried out "charlie hebdo," we have hundreds of thousands of police surrounding them. where is the third attacker. there was a third suspect identified two days ago during the shooting. the young man who apparently drove the car. he turned himself in as you'll remember. >> he says he didn't drive the car. >> has friends, witnesses who say they were with him. so remember there is some public question at least about who the third if there was a third assailant involved in this attack. who is that person and where is that person now? >> that winds up going do what the heart of terrorism is about, which is fredding fear. you don't know where the shooters are, you don't now how big of an organization it is you don't know where it's coming

from. obviously that makes the public very afraid. the control of the main situation seems to be very strong. the elite s.w.a.t. team we keep talking to you about, they go by the acronym of gign they are told to jim and to us and by other sources, they are the best of the best. they are very effective. in 1994 they undertook a very delicate operation successfully. what was that? >> this was to rescue hostages on an airliner in march say, in a city in southern france they carried it out successfully. i've been talking to jim reece, a cnn analyst and a forltmer delta force commander. he said the gign are tip-top, very well trained and capable. if you were going to pick a team this is the team you want on this operation in france. >> especially in hostage situations even domestic cases are handled by the gign. they wait hostages out. it happened even in a school hostage situation, about 15 years ago or so. in west paris. so these are people who know how

to negotiate with hostages. how to surround them. how to wait them out. and this could take as you were mentioning earlier, chris, a few hours, but it could also be much longer. you have to exhaust them and figure out a way to try to save the hostages. >> and you're dealing with the worst kind of hostage-taker, one who doesn't care about his own life. >> that's going to be in question. they had plenty of opportunities thus far to go out in a blaze of glory. they have not. they've been doing everything desperately. clumsily to prolong their own lives. >> you're very right. gign is very skilled at this. >> what does gign mean? >> there are two top anti-terrorist groups in france and that are called in on these kinds of things. gign and r.a.i.d. both of them very qualified to handle this situation. as hala mentioned, they're called in on all sorts of

things, domestic disputes if there's a place where someone is holed up with a shotgun, saying they're going to kill themselves almost on a weekly basis they're in action in the kind of situation where is they've got to negotiate with someone. so i think they have a good track record at this. >> tricky situation, they're flooding assets right now into this area. in northeast paris. where they believe they have the two main terror suspects from the "charlie hebdo" attack. contained. however. as you now have heard, there's at least one other gunman at large from this other shooting. so the french authorities have their hands full at this moment. further details, when we get them back to you in new york back to alisyn and michaela. >> joining us now is mike rodgers, a few weeks ago he was the chairman of the house intelligence committee. a he's now a cnn national security analyst and is also a former fbi agent. mike great to have you on board with us. >> thanks for having me. >> now that we've learned it's believed that one of the brothers travelled to yemen, you think that this is highly significant.

>> i do. we knew that it's called aqap al qaeda in the arabian peninsula. operated out of yemen for at least 18 months they've been talking about trying to find a way to have a western event for them. one of the things that they were concerned about is isis was getting all of the attention and the credit and that takes away resources, it takes away recruits. and although they're not owe pesed to necessarily to isis directly they wanted to make sure they could put some points on the board, if you will unfortunately. i think we're going to have to look very carefully at the next ring of the operation to try to determine was it directed from aqap? have they been sending out other teeps teams to say when you get the opportunity, make these small but effective attacks. >> we understand when they carjacked the victims, these two men carjacked a vehicle. they told that carjacking victim tell them we are al qaeda. so now it sounds as though they're boldly making

proclamations. and it seems so interesting, almost like some you know juvenile belt-measuring going on between isis and aqap. >> when you see what's happening in syria, isis was affiliated with al qaeda. >> a guy named baghdadi merged these two organizations, they wanted to make sure they had the status of al qaeda. there was a fight about a year and a half ago, two years ago, maybe, where al qaeda and what we now know as isis were struggling for decisional-making control. they wanted to go out, isis wanted to attack outside the borders of syria. zawahiri said no i want you to attack inside the borders of syria. that led do a rift of what you see the result of today. so they have a group called al news al nusra, an al qaeda

affiliate. sometimes they're working together sometimes against each other, an odd confluence of events this is what we were afraid of they knew they couldn't have a big-profile event, would they be pushing for smaller, impactful events. you can see by the sheer media attention this gets if in fact it proves to be an al qaeda mn qaeda-directed event. this is in their mind a great way of getting recruits and financing for other things. >> do you believe that one of the brothers while in yemen, met with anwar al awlaki? >> i had never seen anything when i was chairman that would indicate they directly had a meeting. he has been gone now for some time. i would be surprised if he met with awlaki. >> if you go there at mid level, you won't be meeting with someone at the top of the leadership. you might get some inspirational moments with those leaders in their mind inspirational moments, but this is wouldn't

be a daily contact thing that they would have. whether going through this training. these are very compartmentalized for this very reason. think about it you likely met with someone from al qaeda in yemen and has been operating in france for some time. even though they surveilled him, couldn't find enough. now we see what the result was. >> so interesting to talk about that. the inspiration and the challenge that u.s. and european authorities now face. because it's a changing foe, right? it's like a morphing organism. the threat has changed. we we secured borders, we put in place measures at our airports and continued to make sophisticated advances that way. but now you're talking about a foe that's inspired these foreign fighters. to scramble essentially and return to their homelands. and we're seeing this threat pop up in various nations around the world. >> yeah and we've seen quite a few arrests within the last eight months spain, germany, france great britain. united states there's arrests here in new york. recently. so when you look at what

direction that isis gave to its followers, the australian event i think really turned the corner here. when they had about eight people who were ready to go self-radicalized raised their own money in australia said we want to come to syria to join the fight. the isis recruiters if you will called back and said no we want to you stay in australia, we want to you randomly kidnap people off the street cut their heads off, put it on video and send us the video. so that is a fundamental change. because we thought that they would be very eager to have them show up and get further radicalized and trained. the other concerning part of that is they said we have plenty of people here in the fight. that's a problem. >> it's a real problem. >> after australia you saw ontario, you saw other incidents, you see even in france they had other incidents in the days and weeks ahead of this event this one, unfortunately, got through the net. and was successful. but you have to worry, and law enforcement does worry, the sheer number of people that would fit the level of suspicion

is more than they can handle probably. >> does the u.s. get involved in retaliation for this event in paris? does the u.s. launch any attacks in yemen? >> well my argument is if you can find and disrupt any of the al qaeda elements operating, either their finance structure, their training structure, their recruiting structure, any pipeline they have for weapons, their leadership structure, we should do that as a matter of course. remember they want to attack the united states as well. this happened in france this could have easily have happened in the united states as well. and that's why we need to continue to keep the pressure up on their ability to plan and execute these types of operations. >> mike rogers great to have you on "new day," thanks so much. we want to go back now to the scene in paris, where chris cuomo is standing by. chris? >> all right. alisyn thank you very much. let's get to atika shubert. closest to the action of what's going on right now as french authorities have the two main suspects surrounded in an industrial area northeast of

paris. atika, we hear word of reports that there are school kids who have been held in place, now we hear they're being evacuated. what's the latest? >> yeah. i'm in the town of dammartin-en-goele and as you can see, the school behind me cleatly shuttered. we note there are still children inside. what they have done as a precaution is they've brought all the children all the staff inside and individually parents are being asked skdto pick up their children and escorted to safety. they're trying to get children home safely. but they want to do so in the best possible way. as you can see, it's eerily quiet here in this town. most people are staying inside. we were actually much closer to the scene. we're now less than a kilometer over there. over there we were 500 meters away. police were there, in the yards of the homes overlooking the industrial site. asking for everybody to close their windows, shut their, shutter their windows and doors and keep keep quiet and safe inside their homes. so it's a very tense and eerie

quiet in town. it's so quiet in fact that we can hear the planes taking off and landing at charles de galle airport, which is quite nearby here. so meanwhile, we're waiting to see what police tell us about what's going on inside the industrial site at the moment. all seems quiet. >> all right. well quiet is good it's a small area atika, and also that means there's no violence that is in any way at risk to those people there. so you let us know the latest from the ground. let's go to christiane amanpour. joining frus london. she's been here with me in paris until very recently christiane. please speak to what we're understanding now. if these men are indeed from aqap al qaeda in the arabian peninsula. and this kind of sick competition between terror groups for notoriety. >> well clearly they have been quoted as saying twice, tell the media that we are al qaeda in

yemen. and now with all this reporting that cnn has done the justice minister what she told me last night, it's clear that at least one, maybe two of them have been to yemen sometime in the last several years. and you just heard mike rogers a as former chairman of the house intelligence committee, talking about the threat the new threat which is also what the french foreign minister told me. these are not foreigners like 9/11 who came from abroad and attacked inside a different country. these are what intelligence and security officials are really afraid of as this current wave of terrorists, they are the home-grown ones. the once who are told don't come over here and don't attack in iraq or syria or wherever, stay in your own homes, stay in your own countries and create as much mayhem as possible. if they did go to yemen, you remember several years ago, before he was killed anwar al awlaki the sort of inspiration certainly for the underwear bomber he already back at that time had targeted cartoonists.

there was an american cartoonist back then who had urged be killed. in response for cartoons that that cartoonist had drawn. so there is a little bit of a link there. then the other issue is whether the two incidents in paris are linked. the one that we reported on yesterday morning, which a policewoman was killed. and these two kouachi brothers. well the foreign minister has told me that in fact they don't know yet fully whether they're linked. but it could be some kind of mimicry, when something like this happens, such a huge situation, there are all other kind of wannabes who want to do that. and in england, you can imagine, working with the french, working with the european colleagues, they're also in a very high state of alert. >> well the coalition getting tighter, obviously, because this threat could be in any of these major areas that we're dealing with here obviously. now our reporting here on the ground christiane is they do believe that there is a connection that it's a cell

connection between the shooting of the unarmed policewoman yesterday, she lost her life. although that suspect is still at large. and of course that feeds in to really the great paranoia right? that you have living among you individuals who are organizing in the cause of terrorism against their own population. >> exactly. and as i say, over the last several months this has been the predominant fear. you heard even months ago, firms s officials in the united states say they were afraid they would get a blow-back from what happened in syria and iraq. and now we're talking about al qaeda in the arabian peninsula. it's same kind of thing. it's the same kind of agenda. the same kind of attack mode. >> they're afraid of that here and laurent fabiex said there are 1,000 suspects in france who have gone over there and are potentially trouble when they

come back. and said look we have tried several attack plans over the last 18 months this one got through and by the way we are simply waiting for maybe another one to happen. we cannot rule out that this is the last big one to happen here. that's what all of these countries are worried about right now. as they continue to sort of watch for this home-grown inspired by these groups whether it's al qaeda, whether it's isis whatever it might be, to commit this kind of terror in western europe and in the west. >> is there anything unique to the situation in paris that we're dealing with? the threat that you're articulating right now is well-known or well-feared in most western democracies. that being that you have isis calling out to lone wolves which could mean anything from the depraved to the mentally ill, to the disenfranchised. now you have aqap that seems to have had the ability at least in this current situation, to

organize at least loosely, a cell that has hatched two different killings in two different days. and the question becomes -- is there something unique about what the french authorities are doing to combat terrorism that makes them particularly susceptible to this? >> well the french have always said that they are unique and they have had a very, very much higher level of alert. because they have a much bigger muslim population. now by that it does not mean to say the muslim population of france are all about to commit this kind of thing. obviously that's not the case but they do have a very high percentage the highest percentage of muslims in western europe and they have what we've been reporting about these sities not inner suburb slums, but outer city slums, where so many of these people are sort of you know committed, with no hope no future no nothing. and a lot of the sort of activity and the dangerous activity over the past few years has come from there.

so they have been on a much higher threshold of fear than many others in western europe. so that's one thing. the other thing that is different, is that this is a, the first time that in the west they have deliberately attacked the press and the freedom of speech and tried to intimidate and put their marker and tried to govern what free societies talk about and write about and draw about. so that according to the foreign minister is dangerous new trend as well. >> of course what they're seeing here now in paris, when we've been talking to local officials, the deputy mayor for one, this is the worst kind of wakeup call the worst kind of social evolution or devolution depending on how you want to look at it where the french people have to wake up to the reality that they do need to have tighter controls on who moves and how they move and what is surveilled and you know that's the kind of thing that this situation winds up making everybody open their eyes to.

and it's a horrible reality to have to face. but they're facing it right now as we get more details. thank you, christiane we'll come back to you for perspective. we'll stay here for reporting. but right now let's get to new york to alisyn and michaela. >> we want to bring in ed davis, the commissioner of the boston police department at the time of the manhunt for the marathon bombing suspects. mr. davis, thanks for joining us again. so once again, here is a town that we're watching on lockdown. as police try to capture two radicalized brothers. this may, must seem do you eerily similar do what happened in boston. >> it really is alisyn. we've been having flashbacks here over the last few hours. to what we went through 18 months ago. and it really is shocking. you've got two brothers we had one of the brothers here travel to islamic, radical islamic area

of dagestan where they may have received some type of training. in this case one of the brothers has gone to yemen to work with aqap. you have well-planned attack and an escape that was very effective. but then both both groups both here in boston and in paris became almost disoriented, disorganized. they started to do the things that weren't consistent with the well-planned incident. almost as if they expected to die in the initial attack. then there was the pursuit and the arrest i mean the robbery at the gas station which is very similar to what happened in cambridge here. so now they're holed up in a warehouse in our particular case. because the helicopters were up and forced one of the suspects to hide in a boat the same dynamic has occurred.

that they now have them locked down. you know there's also the fog of war that occurs in these situations and the studies that happened after boston have pointed to the confusion that erupts around a chaotic situation like this you almost can't believe anything you first here, and unless you see it with your own eyes you can't confirm things. we spent a lot of time sending investigators and people with the, with the leadership team out to the scene, to give us valid information from the scene. that's why that helicopter is so important. to be able to see exactly what's happening on the ground. and i can see that the weather conditions there are making that a very difficult proposition. >> you make a good point about all of the confusion. any time there's a breaking news situation, we got this bulletin from the french interior ministry that they cannot confirm that there is a hostage in there with the terrorists that doesn't mean that there is not a hostage. just that the french interior ministry is not willing to confirm it yet.

there is the fog of the unfolding event and just how to deal with it and how do police deal with it when it's impossible to get real information? >> well the good thing is they have people right on the scene. they have the best information coming into that command post right now. so they have a perimeter of special weapons experts that are around the outside, that are giving them minute-by-minute updates of what they're seeing. they've got an overhead view of what's happening, and they're also working really hard on plans for the inside of the building what it looks like. and developing as much internal information as possible. and at the same time their intelligence analysts are doing complete rundowns on the two suspects they know a lot about them. they've had a couple of days to get the information. that will be a continuing

process. france is very good at collecting electronic information. surveillance of phones is very common. much more common there than it is in the united states. so we don't know what they have in their archives what they've stored. i'm sure all of that information is being poured through right now. to get a better perspective on the psychology of these individuals. >> mr. davis, we appreciate you sticking around throughout all of "new day" this morning helping us understand what's going on on the ground. we'll check back in with you. right now we want to get back to paris, outside the headquarters of "charlie hebdo" where we find chris cuomo reporting for us. chris? >> all right alisyn. if you're just joining us now, let us tell you how we got to where we are right now. on your screen you're going to see the current situation. the two terror suspects from the massacre here at the offices of "charlie hebdo" have been confined by police to an industrial area northeast of paris. they are believed to have one hostage with them. it is a female. they have said they refuse to

surrender the female. how do authorities know? they are dialoguing if not negotiating with them. they have been told by the suspects they're willing to die as martyrs. you have to balance that against the fact that so farthest two men have done everything they cannot to die. everything they can to keep themselves alive. but the authorities are there. let's take a couple of steps back to how we got to where we are right now. yesterday you'll remember obviously the horrible massacre here. they escaped in a car, they encountered three different sets of police. two patrols, one police person on foot. they wound up killing that policeman, he wound up being a muslim and they executed him very intentionally and deliberately. they then took off outside the city this he were pursued. they wound up being surveillance in the sky, helicopters, made contact with the suspects. the suspects became aware. they abandoned their vehicle. they took to foot into a wooded area north of paris.

that area was searched. obviously the suspects were not found or engaged at that time. night fell. they used night vision for surrounding fields the men were able to exist over the night. authorities are saying on the plus side that means that they are tired. they have been exposed, they're probably hungry but somehow this morning, they wound up commandering a vehicle. when they did that there were conversations had at that time we're going to report in more detail that gives an understanding of who these men are and what their motivation is. they were pursued by police into the area where they are right now. here's what authorities have done. they brought in their best. the gign. they are an elite s.w.a.t. team they're actually a military unit. they are very experienced in these areas. and even by u.s. intel standards, they are the best of the best. they have sealed them into that area. they then created circles of containment that led to points of egress exits have been blocked. the mandate from french authorities from the president

himself is that the two men cannot be allowed to leave this area. so by french authorities standards, this ends here. when is another question. time the authorities say, could be long. but is on their side. because of fatigue wearing on the suspects. the surrounding town has been shut down. there's school kids at play here it is a school day. we hear they are being evacuated as they can. this is just a few miles from charles de galle airport. different flights have been diverted things have been delayed. that's somewhat irrelevant. there's no direct threat to the airport at this time none communicated to us. that's where we are right now. we have fred pleitgen on the ground at the scene where the standoff is going on right now. fred what's the latest? >> the mayor told me at this point this appears to be as you've noted already, a waiting

game and the police are saying they are not taking this fast by any way, shape or form. i asked them when do you think we'll get any information? he said i don't know it could take into the night it could take until tomorrow. he said at this point there are negotiations going on. certainly the police does not appear it's willing to make any erratic or fast moves. one of the other things the mayor said is that the town is in complete lockdown. right behind me you're not going to be able to see it because it's behind me, there's a school here that has all of the children in it and the children seem to still be quite good spirits, they keep screaming "charlie charlie" out of the windows and clapping every time we give them a thumb's up back. so people are actually locked down in schools, children locked down in schools and people have been ordered to stay inside their houses. it appears as most people are following those orders but not all the people are following the orders we are seeing people still walking around here. the actual area where all of this is taking place, chris, is

about four to 500 yards in that direction. this is what one of the local officials here has described to me as a local print shop. he says it's a place you get business cards, a place you print flyers a place you print little magazines as well. he said most people here in the town know the folks who work there. he didn't know who exactly the hostage might be that these two suspects are apparently still holding. what happened here is around 10:00 a.m. people in the town started hearing helicopters overhead. a massive amount of police vks here and that's when the cordon operation started here. >> there's police leaving those vehicles that's what we've seen ben seeing a lot of seeing them secure the perimeter. cops going out into the streets probably also wanting to calm the people down who live there.

>> it's a very calm scene. that's what we're seeing around the area so at this point in time it really is a waiting game as you've said possibly fatigue of the two suspects is something that the police hopes will aid them in their operations. but it certainly seems there's more and more of a police presence moving into this area. as we wait here for things to unfold. >> all right. fred, we do hear that all the colors are in place. and that is code from the french authorities that they have different units or in ditch colors the medical teams, different types of assets in place, they're ready for any contingency. that's the good news however, there is new information. there was another shooting yesterday. you'll remember a female police officer unarmed. killed by someone else. similarly dressed. we are told to the two terrorists here at "charlie hebdo's" offices. that shooter is still at large.

we now understand it is a developing situation. that that suspect has been engaged. let's get the latest from our team of greats here jim, what are we hearing? >> the latest information, always with the caution this has been a constantly changing situation, police have not 100% confirmed it. they believe the shooter in montrouge is now holed newspaper a kosher shop in port du vincent, outside of paris and police say there's a link between the two shooters that carried out the "charlie hebdo" attack here and the second attack on the policewoman yesterday. so just imagine that situation in u.s. terms, your two hostage situations taking place at the same time. very close to paris. with the possibility of hostages. >> if not related, equally dangerous, requiring equal assets from french authorities so they're going to be spread thin quickly here. they thought they were only dealing with one. now, this not speculation, but this understanding that they may be related, comes with cause.

the two main suspects communicated to someone when commandering his vehicle, we are aqap al qaeda in the arabian peninsula. let people know that the other person they're hearing, there's cause, hala to believe that they too, identify themselves that way. what do we know? >> i was just looking at the map to let all of our viewers know, vis-a-vis where we're standing where the reported hostage-taking situation is taking place, we heard a police van driving by with their sirens blazing, 15-minute drive to the east. this say apparently an ongoing situation. you were mentioning chris, that the montrouge, suspected montrouge shooter may be the person that is currently holding potentially a hostage and we're hearing reports of a person wounded east of paris, in this kosher shop. this will paint a picture of several days of each day a situation where there's been

either a shooting or a hostage-taking three days in a row and a response from authorities in this country that is actually surreal when you look at some of the countryside, the sleepy villages north of paris with a a few thousand inhabitants, with full combat gear soldiers going door to door trying to find these suspected assailants. >> we've been asked this many times, saying what is the mood here in paris? it feels like the city is functioning. we have a number of people coming here calmly going to the memorial for the "charlie hebdo" shooting as we drove here this morning. traffic is running. you do hear police. this is a city you know despite having two hostage situations under way at the same time it's not a city that is shut down remarkably. >> sometimes ignorance is bliss and you don't know what's going on around you. maybe you're at work or otherwise, what really matters is the urgency of the situation. jim bitterman, this understanding that oh maybe there is a terror cell at work here. there is somebody who was trying to take disenfranchised youths

from a more impoverished area here of muslims that he was using soccer and that all of these shooters may have come out of it. explain. >> there was this club it was kind of a, began as a soccer club called the boot du chemin club and the younger of the two brothers holed up in northeastern france in fact was a member of that. the others we don't know exactly what the connections are and which one, which people were in there. there were a number of people from that group that french police do know went off and were radicalized. and one way or another, they either were radicalized here because of its one local imam that no longer i think he's dead now. but in any case they have this intimate connection from childhood. that you know in france you know those kind of relations stick for a lifetime. >> we're getting confirmation

hala that you're right, a situation is happening somewhat east of here within striking distance of where we are right now. jim, best use of time is probably for you to head there, please be safe. let us know get on the phone with me jim bitterman is going to go to where we believe the hostage standoff is taking place, again not related to what happened here at "charlie hebdo" directly. however there was another shooting a random traffic standpoint. a police officer directing traffic, a man similarly dressed to the terrorists here opened fire. shot two officers killed a female officer there. he has been missing until then or the shooter, he or she has been missing. they now believe it is a male actually hala he may have taken a hostage and there may be active engagement with him by french authorities, jim bitterman is off to that. the understanding whether it's related or not, it doesn't

really matter tactically to authorities in terms of addressing the situation, there's no reason to believe there's coordination between the different shooters at this point. >> it does matter we've had this curiosity about where is the third assailant from the thursday attack at "charlie hebdo," initially thought it was a 19-year-old who turned himself in the same day who claims he was not involved at all. is it possible the shooter now carrying out a hostage attack to the east of here was he the third person? so that's because it's been this open question where is that third assailant. are they still out there? do they pose a threat? is this the same guy? >> it appears as though the 18-year-old whose name was circulated and who voluntarily turned himself in after some of his schoolmates tweeted out, everything on social media with teenagers in this case tweeting out. no he was in class with me at you know 11:30. he couldn't have been one of the guys. a suggestion that's only good as its corroboration. the kosher shop is that what it sounds like a place where they

have blessed food? a jewish grocery store in. >> it seems like it. it's a 15-minute drive east of here you have the shops peppered throughout paris, it could be one of those. and the understanding from reports, that there is an ongoing hostage situation there in that shop. and it could be linked the suspect in this case could be the same individual who is suspected from having shot and killed the policewoman yesterday. >> you're hearing what it sounds like. there's a police vehicle going by right now. it is heading east. maybe it is going in that area again. the french authorities tend to flood the zone. not unlike as we do in the u.s. and in the uk you try to get as many assets as possible especially in urban areas when you can. because it clogs the area and what they saw yesterday was very good proof of why you need it. in an urban area if there's any chance to get away you want to try to seal it off.

>> this is very different from an industrial park outside of paris. this is a very populated area in the dprench capitalfrench capital and you have to take every precaution to protect the citizens. >> lou did the shooter wind up being pinned in a kosher shop? they must have felt confident enough to be moving around the population. >> was it a target of opportunity? or was this something planned? was this part of the plan initially. when the shooting took place yesterday. one of the reporters at cnn made the point 100 feet away was a jewish school. a possible connection we don't know that was he looking for targets? it gets to a broader question here. you don't want to question the paris police response the french police response, they are flooding the zone they've been scrambling a bit here. first to find assailants behind the "charlie hebdo" shooting. they seemed to believe they were in one town the next town now

the forest now in this town next to the charles de gaulle airport. now the shooter turns up in another hostage situation here it shows the real challenge of tracking these guys down in a major urban area. >> but for one of the shooters leaving one of the terrorists leaving his identification in a vehicle. now there's been speculation that that was on purpose. that was calling card. i've seen nothing to suggest there was any intelligence behind him leaving his identification. if they haven't done that there any reason to believe they would be anywhere in the investigation right now. not as criticism, but the reality of the difficulties. >> that certainly was a help to the investigators and police authorities in order to track them down. i wanted to also bring to our viewers one thing, chris, and that is that the interior ministry is saying the priority in the situation in in i said dammartin-en-goele a very long -- >> the industrial park. >> the industrial park is to establish dialogue with the

extremist gunmen. accord together interior ministry. there have been no dead or injured in that situation. and there have been reports floating out there that had been an injury and they're denying that. >> the team you want on a hostage negotiation in france is the gign they're experienced in this establishing contact to try to defuse the situation. >> remind us of the 1994 situation. >> where they successfully defused a hostage-taking rather a hijacking of an airliner in southern france. >> if you're joining us right now there's a lot of emerging detail. a very fluid situation. when we're saying gign it's an acronym, beyond my french capabilities to explain it. the s.w.a.t. team military group controlling the situation northeast of paris, where the two suspected terrorists are from the "charlie hebdo" office shootings. there is another active situation, from a second shooting that had happened where a female police officer

was killed yesterday. that shooter has been identified and now there's a potential hostage situation just east of where we are right now. >> we now have the name of this shop this kosher shop where he's apparently holed up. it's called hyper cache, cache meaning inging kosher in french. it's in porte de vincent. it means however was involved feels comfortable moving in the population. >> but to keel in mind it's on the edge of paris, porte de vincent means it's a door to paris. >> what does it change the die nam frick an area where we are now, densely populated, how it is? >> i would have do see the shop and where it is but if you imagine paris being sort of a big circle and you have doors, that lead into paris from a beltway like highway surrounding the city. so it perhaps it is slightly less populated than a very dense area such as bastile.

but still it is populated. >> does it help you? >> no. i mean people familiar with paris will know it's 20 districts and you have a beltway surrounding it. and highways leading into the city and this may be an area that is slightly less of a small street small passageway type area. >> jim bitterman is making his way over to where the second situation is going on. do me a favor, put the map back up for a second. it does help us reset and bring understanding to why we are where we are right now. so let's take a look at the map. yesterday we all know what happened this horrible massacre at the offices of "charlie hebdo." you see it on your map there in central paris so what happened was, they escaped by car. they wound up encountering three different sets of police. one of them was on a bike he got off the bike he got shot he wound up being executed. by these two terrorists he wound up being a muslim police officer just to show the mindset of these two killers.

they take off, they are pursued, they establish contact surveillance through the ska through helicopters. the suspects become aware of it abandon their vehicle, but apparently not their weapons, at least not all of them. they would find a simple explosive devices, there is reporting on that in the vehicle that was abandoned. they take off into the forested areas north of paris, they get searched there. they do not find them there in those searches overnight. they're using infrared. and night vision to try to find them in surrounding fields they don't. this morning, the suspects successfully commandeer a vehicle, they tell people they are from the al qaeda in yemen, doing this in response to one of their leaders being killed. they say they don't want to hurt civilians, although of course they've done exactly that. they then get pursued into this northeastern area of france

less populated, industrial and they're in the building we've been showing you on your screen. they have been trapped in that building they have taken a hostage. a female they have said they will not surrender the female hostage. which again fights their understanding that they've given to people that they don't want to hurt innocent civilians. they've told the authorities who have established telephone dialogue with them that they are willing to be martyred for their cause, though they haven't taken opportunities to be martyred to this point. they are surrounded the surrounding cities and roads have all been blocked and france's best this gign s.w.a.t. team is in place and in control of the situation. meanwhile, the second shooting that had happened where an unarmed police officer who was directing traffic, was shot and killed in a second officer was shot by someone similarly dressed. to the two terrorists here at "charlie hebdo's" offices. that happened, they escaped, now they have been contacted and have reportedly taken a hostage

in a kosher market just east of where we are. so that's a situation right now. the two men on your screen confined to the area that's air surveillance in that industrial area. there's another situation going on our jim bitterman is en route. for more perspective on the situation right now. let's get to you michaela back in new york. mick, as we get to details from here and jim gets in place, i'll get back to you. >> stellar work there. it is a rapidly unfolding and changing scenario. we want to turn for some analysis. paul cruickshank gentlemen, we have seen such a change in the last half an hour even the last hour. as the situation continues to change. talk me through this paul. i want to focus on this kosher shop where chris is telling us we have a correspondent on the way to. they believe, even though french authorities will not confirm,

they believe that the person holed up with a hostage in that kosher shop just east of the "charlie hebdo" offices, is related. potentially an accomplice to the brothers that are holed up with hostages at that industrial area. what are your reactions? >> michaela there are more and more indications that what we're dealing with here is not a lone wolf attack this is an al qaeda cell perhaps an al qaeda in yemen cell perhaps a sleeper cell that's gone operational in france. with at least three people involved. there was the shooting yesterday in a southern district of paris, the gunman dressed very similarly to the "charlie hebdo" attackers, gunned down a french police officer. but that shooting yesterday was just a few hundred yards from a jewish school and there was some eye witnesses yesterday who thought the gunman was initially on the way to that jewish school. so it's interesting that he's now apparently holed up in a

kosher shop another potential jewish target for what appears to be an al qaeda cell launching this major launching this major attack in paris in retaliation for the death of anwr awlaki who was killed in a u.s. drone strike in september 2011 and inspired a generation of extremists in the west to carry out attacks including the ft. hood shootings, including the boston attacks in the united states michaela. >> jim, talk to me about what you're seeing as you watch this and talk to your sources, and what you're feeling in terms of this. we've been hearing jim bitterman talk to us about the potential for these young men to all be related in some ways to perhaps a jihadi cell that operated in one of these algerian neighborhoods in the outskirts or suburbs of paris. >> yes, i think that what jim bitterman was talking about in terms of some of the

neighborhoods on the outskirts of paris is fascinating and gets to some of the underlying reasons why young muslim men in france have been radicalized. because for example, in france france is a very secular tradition. there's a sharp division between church and state. yet at the same time the muslim population within france has exploded over the course of the last 15 to 20 years, and it is very difficult for people who come traditionally from north africa like algeria, to integrate within french society and really establish themselves. it'sive for young muslims who cannot be seen to practice their religion quite as openly as they would in north africa. france has a long difficult history with the head scarf issue for women and there are other symbols that make it very difficult for young muslims to get jobs to get university degrees, and so they often seek to identify with other groups and are susceptible to this kind of radicalization because they're looking for a way to

identify themselves and create an identity. >> paul you've talked to us on our air a lot about the fact that there have been arrests in france in this country that is a very large muslim population and we talk about what jim was just addressing this notion of disenfranchised youth that have become radicalized. this is such a vulnerable and dangerous population and proposition. >> many of these young kids live in these bon leur run-down suburbs where there are not very good job opportunities and the isis message, the al qaeda message put out through social media has increasingly resonated in these suburbs. we've seen right now 400 french nationals who were fighting with various jihadist groups in syria and iraq. 200 considering going, 200 on their way, 200 on their way back. there are 5,000 individuals in france the french are

monitoring to varying degrees. this is a huge challenge in france. the french prime minister said the threat is greater than any time from terrorism in the country's history. these are worrying times. >> worrying times indeed. before turning to extremism, cherif kouachi smoked marijuana, drank beer had a girlfriend some proof he was pretty secular but then something shifted and he became radicalized >> right. so one of the big points in cherif kouachi's radicalization was abu ghraib and the torture that the u.s. military perpetuated on some of the prisoners there back in 2004-2005 time frame, and this is a big thing. it really speaks to the notion that the united states -- >> can i interrupt for one second? >> yes. >> please pause for a second because we now have live images of the standoff situation, obviously our cameras are at somewhat of a distance but you can see an awful lot of police

personnel. this is the site of the second hostage-taking in france compliments of france 2 network our affiliate in france just outside of parish. this is this kosher shop we've been hearing about in port devincenze it's a kosher shop there, epercahe. it is believed the shooter involved in thursday's shooting of the policewoman who later died, that shooter is inside this and surrounded inside this kosher shop with my goodness you can see the amount of police personnel armed and protected wearing full military turnout gear. they are there and it looks as though they are very close to surrounding the area. reportedly it's an accomplice,

alsin, alisyn. >> i'm reading the bulletin that came across from reuters, they believe several people have been taken hostage at this kosher supermarket in eastern paris, and again, you're seeing the outside and the police presence amassing there, trying to deal with this hostage taking as well as what's going on in the northern suburb outside of paris. let's go back to chris cuomo, he of course is in paris at the scene of the original massacre. chris, what are you hearing on the ground? >> all right, alisyn thank you very much. i'm here with hala goroani and alan alan say your last name for hee. thank you very much. you are a security expert and you understand how the french authorities operate in situations like this even up to the level of the gign s.w.a.t. team. we're looking at a live picture of what we believe is going on east of here and what you call the 12th district. they seem to be uniformed police but what is staging there right now? what is your understanding of this tactic? >> first, they are preparing and

surrounding the place. second, they will establish contact and negotiate, that's the french way, and afterwards they will decide if there is a place for negotiation, if there's a place for rendition or if they have to go and take over the place. >> reporter: in this tight of a formation, is this a function of obviously just believing that they are within the reach of whatever weapon they assume they're dealing with? >> no just waiting to get instruction by the negotiator with the most important person in charge. >> reporter: there's another detachment in front of them more crouched. that's a safe waiting position? >> that's the way they're prepared and they'll check the mood, who we will discuss with and if there is a discussion if there's a refusal of discussion they will try to put some equipment to see and hear what's going on inside and then they

will make a decision. of course from experience due to toulouse a few years ago, which is first try at negotiations that unfortunately got back down because they never wanted to surrender. >> the man who booby trapped his own house and took 24 hours but he was alone without hostages. >> exactly. >> reporter: but this is different. >> this is different but it's always a part of experience to know this type of individuals may want to die under attack but may want to get as many publicity as possible. >> reporter: right. >> and make the show be very long. >> reporter: the paris prosecutor's office confirms there are hostages plural involved in this situation. now, one step backwards, we're trying to figure out what this means and the police are backing off immediately. they think they're in a

sensitive area of containment. this shooter yesterday was similarly dressed to the terrorists that attacked the offices here "charlie hebdo"." he shot two officers one was a female she was unarmed, she died but there is no reason to believe that shooter was either present at this shooting at "charlie hebdo" or is any way related to this plot but there is reason to believe, alain, you tell me if this is consistent with your understanding that the shooter we're looking at right now in this situation may be related to the men in terms of the organization of their cell. does that sound right? >> i think it's clear that this crew was made of three persons, not two. the point was even highlighted by the ministry of the interior the beginning of the "charlie hebdo" situation, there was a misunderstanding on who may be but it's clear from the

beginning that french authorities knew there were not two but three people involved. >> reporter: right. >> connected together and maybe together at the first stage. >> reporter: so technically, hala there could be four. you could have had three people involved here at "charlie hebdo" and either is or is not the 18 19-year-old young man who turned himself in. alain says, you say it is not him okay so he's out of the picture but there was a third person in this attack this massacre at "charlie hebdo," it could or could not be the man involved here. you could be dealing with four people. >> we always believe that there will be three. two who attacked the building and one who may be in charge of the car. >> reporter: right. >> which is usually how you organize these types of things and who may have been involved to shoot the policewoman. >> reporter: do you believe the man who is held up now in this kosher market that the police are trying to make their way around there on some slippery ground do you believe from your

information that this man was related to what happened at "charlie hebdo"? >> he's related to the crew that was involved in both "charlie hebdo" and the shooting of the policewoman, and now of the standoff here north of paris and in east of paris. >> reporter: okay so that's new information for us. we'll stick with that until we hear otherwise. yes? >> i just want to bring our information from the france press, they are reporting according to their sources five people taken hostage in this kosher supermarket. this isn't something we've confirmed. the france press has spoken to police forces, five individuals held hostage in this kosher supermarket. >> reporter: which is consistent with what's going on in the supermarket if you were to confront somebody in that situation they'd have access to a large number of people. >> that's what they want to do usually is to take as many casualties as many hostages and

as many publicity as possible. >> reporter: what does this mean happening in the 12th district in or around a supermarket? >> think the third person was identified and was searched heavily by french police and the other two just found the perfect place to try to escape or to negotiate or to create attention and maybe fully not casualties. >> reporter: what does it mean his efforts to escape didn't take him far away from paris, he was staying relatively close to the scene of the crime? >> most of those try to be is aef in areas they know and not in areas they don't know. the first two tried to escape where they were in their first place, paris, and where they

were living and it's consistent with usual behavior of those individuals, and this one may be perfect in this area in this eastern paris. >> reporter: he has a lot of trouble coming his way and rightly so. this is what's going on right now, just east of us a man is inside the supermarket, that's a picture of the supermarket there. it is a kosher market. we don't know if that's relevant. he supposedly has as many as five hostages that's from french authorities. let's go to the other active situation where the two terrorists from the shooting at the offices of charlie heb"charlie hebdo" are surrounded and holed up. atika shubert that's the building the men are inside it's a big building authorities don't know exactly where but that's the building they are supposedly inside. atika shubert what do you know

from your vantage point? >> reporter: we're about 600 meters way from the building right by a school just about to be evacuated. they have a bus here police ready to escort them out. the plan is to get them out to a neighboring town where parents can get their kids and bring them to safety. i think the priority is just to get them out of this general area because we are so close to that industrial park. there's been quite a bit of police activity just to get to these kids and try to get them out of here. we haven't heard anything from the industrial site itself. it's very quiet. we took a walk up there where we could see into that area. it's very quiet. police have told everyone to stay inside, draw the curtains and keep locked down inside their homes. so that's where it stands so far, so quiet at the moment.

>> atika, thank you very much. we'll keep checking in with you there to the extent it's safe. it's important to be evacuating those kids. let them get home to their families. insulate them from any proximity to the area. when it goes down if the men don't surrender, they said they won't, it will be a violent scene. that's the situation they've called themselves to creating the horrible massacre at the offices of "charlie hebdo." on your screen is this second developing situation east of our location here in paris called district 12 a man involved in a separate shooting from the "charlie hebdo" shooting killed a police officer, is now in this kosher market. we have with us an expert in the different tactics of the french authorities, alain, what will they do in terms of steps? you said they'll try to contact this guy, make some kind of

dialogue. if dialogue is resistant, then they do otherwise. how many different teams will you have and what are the different jobs that are necessary at this point? >> first you just have one team one coordinated team as you know the french national police is a unified police and they have two different organizations that deal with hostage situations, red, which is the french national police and gign and for the first time ever they're working together due to the sensitivity of the situation and the gravity of the situation. >> reporter: who tackskes lead? >> there is one guy in charge. whoever it will be it will be the guy in charge on each location but for the first time they work together and at this moment the negotiator is the principal important guy. he will sense if there's a way to get out, if there's no way to get out, if there's a possibility to negotiate the release of some hostages women,

children. there is none in this case but it may have happened and afterward he will give an option to the chief of team and of course minister of the interior prime minister and maybe president of the republic may have the charge of options regarding what the negotiation may give or what the non-negotiation may not give. >> so those are the conditions. the hostages we've heard from french authorities they believe there are as many as five hostages inside. >> including women. >> reporter: women. do we know if there are children involved? >> at the moment we know there are women. >> reporter: so there are women involved in this and time how does time work? when is time in favor of the authorities? when does time become an adversary adversary? >> time is always an ally because you use time to negotiate to discuss to create a

link connection to open options. it's always a very good ally. it's not very well for communication and publicity, which is obviously what some of the yimcriminals want to have but it's good for the release of the hostage and it always gives you a better option of saving them from this situation. so time will be a good ally always. >> reporter: all right, so we're going to keep monitoring this situation. we have one of our correspondents jim sciutto, who is en route to that location. we have two reporters at the second active situation that's going on with the hostage, so we will give you the latest from those. right now the situations are developing but quiet, so let me send you back to new york to alisyn and michaela. >> great job, chris. thanks so much. some amazing information and changes coming in this last hour or so. we want to turn for some analysis to wally zayns, a

former nypd detective and hostage negotiator 30 years with the nypd 22 as a hostage negotiator. you're a man to talk to about this volatile situation n two locations in france that country on edge right now. help us understand the primary focus right now for those negotiating teams in both situations. >> well first of all, it's like a hostage negotiating is like walking into the middle of a movie. you don't know the beginning and you don't know the end, so you have to work from there and hostage negotiating we have three negotiators interchangeable, that's a hostage team within the inner perimeter. the primary negotiator the coach and the floater. the primary negotiator will be talking to the person and makes the report and tries to get as much information from him. at the same time the coach is more or less taking notes because he can hear everything that's going on and they send out a floater who talks with other law enforcement agencies who talks with family members

and brings it back and then the coach deciphers it and all three of those negotiators are interchangeable. >> i thought it was fascinating you were telling michaela and me it's no accident you believe that in both these situations they chose a catering company to the north of paris and they chose a kosher deli or grocery store, why? >> food. one of the big negotiating tools people want is they want to have food, and they want to have food brought in. that's something that they don't have to negotiate for. they have a kosher deli. they'll get whatever they need. they'll have drinks there, water, et cetera and the other place they'll have food because that's an ally catering place, they make food for the airlines. the interesting part is terrorists work in what they call the theater of terror. their objective in a case like this is for money, manpower and media. >> explain those. >> what they want their theater of terror is set up by the

hostage taker is the main actor. the hostage and the police are the -- >> part players? >> part players, and the media is -- >> the broadcasting system. >> broadcasting it all over the world. what makes that even more interesting is they want their objective is money, manpower and media to work for them. there are sympathizers who are out there who want to donate money. there are other people out there who want to join. so having those two locations and being able to have food they could be there for days. >> the other disadvantage they have, you talk about the fact they have ample supply of food water, beverages access to facilities like the restrooms, et cetera one thing they don't have on their side for the two brothers this is what 48 hours or so on fatigue. the police have the advantage there. you have all of the resources. talk to us about how that works,

how they change out and bring in fresh bodies so they have the advantage of awareness and energy. >> in a hostage negotiation long-term the person that's negotiating will stay as long as he or she has to stay talking, and if that person has to say relieve themselves go to the bathroom or is tired, they'll introduce a partner and say hey, listen because they've already in the first couple of hours developed the rapport. >> which is so important. >> which is the most important thing. what they'll do with trust, trust me i'm going to go to the bathroom, i'll be right back. >> does that work with terror suspects? >> sure that. >> the same way with a domestic situation? >> sure. because you've already established a trust factor where they believe in you, and talk to my partner, frank. frank's just like me and they'll bring him in they may

not want to talk to a man they want to talk to a man. we have every race creed and color. if the hostage wants to go to sleep that's better because we're alleviating deadlines. if they say i want a deadline or we're going to kill everybody we have to start thinking -- >> changes the urgency. wally we'll ask you to stand by. we want to turn back live to chris there on the ground in paris not far from the office of "charlie hebdo." chris in. >> reporter: thank you very much michaela. i want to get to jim sciutto on the phone with us he's made his way over there. jim, can you hear us? >> -- hearing now an ambulance siren past us, is rushing away from the scene, three ambulances i just counted now, about two minutes i -- rushing away -- police escort. at the same time we're seeing -- clums of police vans headed in the direction of the shooting. it has taken place at eperecasche

market. i've passed someone on a stretcher being letd into the ambulance. it's difficult to establish whether this is tied to the shooting but we're very close to it and seeing police going in and seeing am -- >> all right, jim, here's what we were hearing from here if it helps with context. we had an expert here who understands french tactics very well in these situations. our live pictures of two different squads that seem somewhat apprehensive in a staging area nearby. he said the primary goal was to establish communication, see if negotiations are an option. french authorities say five hostages inside one may be a woman inside does not know about any children so that's

what we know contextually jim. i cannot verify if what you're seeing in the ambulances are related to the picture we have. what ez else do you see. >> police heading in the direction of where the kosher market is. keep in mind the police are keeping us a safe distance but look closer but again police heading in the direction of it and ambulances heading out. the police have not confirmed injuries from the shooting but there are reports and the signs sitting here and seeing the ambulances rush away police escort police escort seems reasonable to make that connection. keep in mind just for our viewers back home imagine the same situation in an american city. now two hostage situations on either side of the capital of france paris, and you have the police responding.

you know chris, this morning, we're talking about thousands of police responding but scrambled somewhat. this is a -- they did not know -- involve -- for the last 24 hours that he is the same shooter who killed a female police officer yesterday. they have not publicly made a connection between this hostage situation and the one taking place near charles de gaulle airport. >> right. now jim, what we heard from this person with knowledge of the investigation, he says that french authorities do believe that this shooter, who has taken hostages at that kosher market where you are nearby right now, they do believe that he is related to the terrorists who attacked "charlie hebdo" two days ago and have been the subject obviously of the manhunt

since then that led them to be isolated in this industrial area east of paris. however, whether or not that meant he was a party to this attack or was just part of the cell or a friend of or part of the organization that was not clarified, and again, we'll hold on any reporting that anything that you're seeing there in terms of injuries or ambulance activity is related to the event. we've heard nothing about that. we had heard similar reports about injuries being connected to the other standoff in that industrial area. french authorities came out and said there have been no wounded to date none dead killed in this manhunt yet, so let's just hold off and hope for the best. you're seeing k-9 units, this is from earlier. this is not live picture. this was some of the early staging around that kosher market. they have various different types of assets involved to surround the situation and engage whoever is inside. that's what we've been following

here. jim, how is your connection? can you still hear us? >> i can hear you well chris. one more thing, we're now circling over the scene of this shooting here and just to your point, the connection that police have established between this suspected shooter at the kosher market and the "charlie hebdo" is the suspect apparently suspected of being behind the "charlie hebdo," as you say, established a connection but there appears to be a personal connection they somehow knew each other and planned together so we just don't know at this point. but i'll tell you, it's just the tension in this city right now as you have forces deployed and rarpmped up is remarkable to watch. yet at the same time i'm seeing

people walking around eating in restaurants, i'm seeing them driving, people keeping their -- >> all right, jim, do me a favor. start sending me some e-mails and texts, let me know what you're seeing there. the phone connection not so great. so if you can't get to a hard line or get a better connection jim, just start sending me some e-mails and texts and we'll get you a better line as soon as we can. hala jim was just making a point that is worth broadening out a little bit before we return to new york. this is a metropolitan city millions of people living their lives. they've never seen anything like this to have this violence and succession with manhunts and hostages being taken. you live here. what is this like? what is this going to do to affect the collective psyche here? >> i lived here and i lived here in 1995 when there was a series of terrorist attacks against public transport for several days.

reminds me a little of that time 19 20 years ago where every single day brought new, disturbing news about another violent attack against ordinary civilians. in this case it's a little bit different in that we over the last several years, have gotten used to the notion that perhaps there is a threat against western targets from fighters who may have gone to the middle east joined the ranks of isis been trained by al qaeda, in this case we're starting to hear reports this may be the situation here, although of course over the next few days weeks and months all that will become clearer. but yes, this is a very very surreal scene. you're seeing in full combat gear hundreds of security forces going door to door in small, sleepy villages. >> is it like in new york this collective acceptance this could happen any time and we have to do things to combat this? >> yes you heard from the

french president a few hours ago on television and he had special meetings at the interior ministry today. we've known for months intelligence is pointing toward the possibility of this type of attack. of course when it happens the question is a, how do you respond and b longer term what is your response as a question. all of these are questions that french people will have to answer and you're right, surreal to see all this and we're hearing police sirens in the background. >> very acive situations what's going on in the industrial park. we don't know what the end is there. here we're seeing not too far from where we're stationed right now that situation just beginning to unfold. we'll give you details as we have them and as hala is referring, you know this is paris today, but as we know all too well back in the states in new york serve vulnerable everybody has to be prepared. so back to you in new york. i know that you have senator angus king there. >> we do chris, and also we just got a bulletin in fact the mayor of paris just tweeted out

she is racing now to the scene of that second standoff to be on hand for whatever unfolds there. joining now is senator angus king, an independent from maine on at senate select intelligence committee. tell us your thoughts as you watch these two hostage standoffs unfold. >> i think the first thought is that the people in america can identify with and want to express our support and sympathy and encouragement to the people of paris and the people of france. we've been here. we know what this feels like. it's a violation. it's painful and i think that's the first thought. the second is i've had intelligence briefings over the last 24 hours. i don't have a great deal of additional information to what you are reporting. you're doing a great job bringing us the minute-to-minute coverage of what's going on. i think the third thing is that there does appear to be a connection between these guys that did this attack and what's called aqap the al qaeda in the

arabian peninsula, which is essentially based in yemen. we know at least one of them traveled there. we know there was some training and this doesn't look like a lone wolf attack. just the fact that they were carrying ak-47s and not 22s and pistols indicates that this was planned and part of some tragedy. it's tragic and unfortunately it's the world we live in. >> senator king we appreciate it. you spoke about the intelligence briefings that you've been a part of and for security reasons you can't tell us some of the confidential information exchanged there but maybe you can give us some knowledge and understanding if there's a revaluation of some of the high priority concerns in the u.s. >> there is. this is a case so far the system worked. the point i'm making is that these two guys were on our

no-fly list. they had been identified and were being tracked, that would have made it difficult for them to get here. the larger reality, there's something like 15,000 15,000 foreign fighters in syria and iraq right now. it's a calderon of training that these people can then return to their home countries and this kind of thing is possible. it's one of the reasons people sometimes stop me and say, why are we bothering with the middle east? why are we involved over there? why are we sending people and the answer is that if this place doesn't get calmed down it's going to be a training ground for these kind of individuals that we're going to see throughout the world and unfortunately most likely here in the united states. >> senator, it's alisyn here. what do you do? what is the thinking in the senate intelligence committee about how to combat people who are radicalized coming here or

even who self-radicalize, maybe on the internet and do these single or double person attacks. >> there's been a lot of work how you cope with this and strategy and has to involve good intelligence work putting you the pieces together. we have the counterterrorism center that tracks these kind of movements that links what people are doing when when they travel and those kinds of things. you've got to do that you have to have everything from local police to the seeia and military assets. the other thing is we've got to understand that this is not islam. this is not a muslim general kind of thing. these people are radicals jihadists. i've seen quotes from islamic people over the last 4 hours "this is a per version of islam." nobody's god countenance

innocent people like this so we've got to be careful not to brand 1.5 billion people worldwide because that could become a self-fulfilling prophecy if this becomes a war of the west against islam it's a 100-year catastrophe and we have to be careful to say these people are radicals they're outside the mainstream and we have to follow them and work with the communities to try to counteract this kind of radical ideology. >> i heard someone yesterday say this is a war on terror, not a war on religion which is an important point to underscore. sir we look at the situation of the radicalized foreign fighters rushing to their homelands. we look at what happened in france. we look at the number of these foreign fighters that are returning by some estimates 100, 150 to france and we know the numbers are far less here in the united states but talk about this notion of the disenfranchised immigrant son,

this young person that is not necessarily feeling a connection to country. it's not just about targeting the danger it's also about keeping further people from being inspired. how do we target that? >> well i've been hitting, hammering on that in committee meetings and armed services and intelligence the past year and a half. we need a general strategy beyond just killing them and beyond treating them as military targets. we need to talk about why is this happening, why are young men particularly falling for this ideology and how do we counteract it and work with the more moderate elements within the muslim community. frankly this is something we still have to we still are trying to think through. in the meantime we have to keep our defenses up. we've got to maintain the counterterrorism activities but you're absolutely right. the core of this is how do we

deal with what i consider the true weapons of mass destruction, which are unemployed 22-year-old alienated men who have no connection with their society. part of it is education. part of it is economic development. part of it is imparting western values. what we saw in paris was a real flash of values if you will. we take for granted free speech and freedom of expression. there are parts of the world where this just isn't happening. the thing that bothers me about this we have people with 14th century sort of 14th century world view and ethic with 21st century weapons. man, that's a dangerous combination. >> senator, you were saying it was good news they were on our no-fly list. they weren't being surveiled well enough in paris to prevent something like this from happening these two brothers and the reason is as we've heard in the past 48 hours, there weren't enough resources. are you confident there are

enough resources here at home to surveil everyone who should be? >> well if you're asking me can i give you a personal guarantee nothing like this can happen here i absolutely cannot do that. i think as you pointed out, there are fewer of these returning fighters in the united states. i do know that there is a lot of attention being paid trying to track them but you know remember what happened up in boston at the boston marathon and there's a sort of continuum here between a highly organized al qaeda attack like september 11th, this which seems to be a little bit less centrally coordinated, although we don't know that yet, and then the lone wolf who, as you say, is self-radicalized sitting in the basement reading the internet and decides apparently the guy up in canada who decides to go and kill somebody. so are we actively very aggress

aggressively following as many of these people as possible? absolutely. can we make guarantees i'm afraid we can. >> understood. senator angus king thanks for joining us. we have breaking news we want to get to. back to chris cuomo live on the ground for us in paris. chris? >> all right, alisyn. hala and i are here. we have breaking news we have new information about what the french authorities believe they are dealing with. they released pictures of two suspects they say are responsible for the shooting yesterday that involved a police officer, a female police officer losing her life. you're looking at them now. hala help me with the names and information in the french press release. >> the 33-year-old you see that man there, amedy coulibaly is the name police releasedend and a woman, this is actually surprising to me. i didn't know a woman might have been involved or suspected of any kind of involvement in that. >> they call her his girlfriend but she's also seen as being connected to the event.

>> according to this police this police release this release from the police department here in paris asking people to call in if they know the whereabouts or help with the whereabouts of these two individuals, hayat hayat boumeddiene, who is in her 20s and her picture on the left of the screen. we don't know if they're connected with anything going on today in the east of paris. >> very important. there had been the word from authorities they thought the person was in the shooting yesterday was in the market. jim sciutto is on the phone. you hear what we're reporting and reading the same e-mail we got. is there any way to verify whether these two suspects who have been released by french authorities are the people they're dealing with right now in the kosher market? >> we only know with a level of confidence that police believe them to be assailants here that's why they're releasing their i.d.s.

let me tell you where i am chris, standing under a police helicopter which is hovering in fixed position over this kosher market here. that in addition to really just hundreds of police and we've seen dozens of police cars just in the last few minutes, police vans i should say carrying more in here and sadly, as i mentioned just a few moments ago, chris, a number of ambulances heading in the opposite direction, one of them rushing with police escort afp, the french wire service is reporting that two are dead in the shooting. we have not confirmed that. police have not mentioned that, but i will tell you the indication just from being on this scene is that there are injured being rushed away from it right now. we're very close now to where this hostage situation is under way. >> is there any indication jim, from what you're seeing there, that there is active engagement between police and the one or

more suspects who are in that kosher market? >> there is not, because, chris, we're close enough now that we would hear it if there was, we would hear the gunfire if there was. at this point, we haven't heard it in the last few moments. remember there should be a similar posture here to what we're seeing at charles de gaulle airport where the two gunmen from the "charlie hebdo" shooting are, which is they want to establish control. they want to keep people at a safe distance bystanders et cetera and they want to engage where they can. remember it is a report that there are five that there are five hostages being held here again, police have not said that publicly so primary among their concerns is to keep those hostages safe so they're not going to want to move in. they want to avoid engagement at this point unless absolutely necessary. you and i covered the military a lot, chris. these counter-terror teams they have you can call them rules of

engagement as well. there are very strict measures that they follow to see when they use force and when you have hostages they're going to be very reluctant to use force unless necessary because of course they don't want to endanger the lives of the hostages. >> right, but obviously, once they've had, jim, any indication that those suspects one or more suspects inside that place are willing to take lives of hostages that also can accelerate the violence and tactics that are used by the authorities, because they obviously want to shortcut the ability to do any more harm as much as they can. so what else are you seeing from there, jim? what's relevant? >> well they have, so this is the main street leading to porte devi vincennes. police have stretched red and white barriers across the street. this is the first street we've

come to they're not only stopping cars but also stopping pedestrians. that's the sign of the level of concern they have about the safety here. i can tell you, i'm about 200 yards now from the corner where this kosher shop is just on this one main street chris, i can count 20 maybe police vans. you can hear their sirens. the helicopter is still overhead. they are and we talked about this earlier with the charles de gaulle situation, they are flooding the zone here. that is the french police response and listen it makes sense. you have what are believed to be one or two armed attackers here possibly the attacker and his girlfriend and you have apparently hostages inside. >> all right, jim, be careful. you know how to do the job. please let us know information as you get from there. i'm on e-mail if you want to get me that way more quickly.

we have christiane amanpour standing by. hala before we go you see the e-mail i got here. pronounce this man's name the suspect for me? >> amedy coulibaly and hayat hayat boumeddiene. >> and authorities are linking them to the brothers in this they believe there's an affiliation that goes back to what they call the iraqi connection whatever that means. >> a group of young guys who would play football together. authorities quoted by many sources at this point are saying that they either were friends, this they knew each other or were associates so therefore making a connection that is becoming clearer and clearer between what happened here on wednesday, the shooting at chrlie hebchrl ie "charlie hebdo" and the killing of the police officer in monrouge. >> they did not say this man and maybe this woman were involved in what happened here but that

they are involved with as an association the men who did this. >> yes, absolutely correct. right now we do not have confirmation these two individuals are the ones who were involved in this hostage situation in vincennes, east of here. >> it's important to keep the numbers involved here. according to authorities three people were involved at "charlie hebdo." they thought it was this 18 19-year-old may have been the driver. he turned himself in. the expert here hollande said he's not involved so they're still looking for a third person who was involved here. they do not believe that these two that third person. >> also chris, this female suspect, this is news to everyone. we didn't know there was even a second suspect, let alone a female in this case so this is all coming together slowly but we're getting a clearer picture. >> we do not know that one or either or both of these two people on your screen right now are involved in the standoff in the kosher market. >> we do not know that do not

have confirmation. >> just to give you the best and clearest information what numbers are people are involved here so let's bring in christiane amanpour right now. christiane you're following this. it's really been flooded with new information, and events since you took the trip just from paris to london but obviously, the french authorities are dealing with people who are related in terms of their own radicalization if not the operation of the violence that we've seen here now, two different instances. >> indeed and let's wait to see exactly who they are but we are looking at this woman who has now been named and her picture is out there, and last night, actually the french foreign minister told me in our interview of the 1,000 people who they have on their list who traveled to syria and they expect many are radicalized, he said 30% are women and people who may come back and create mayhem in france 30%, he told

me in the interview we broadcast last night. so they do have women on their radar, and they are watching those people as well in terms of who may come back and all this blowback as we've said over and over again. mean time here in england, having arrived, you can see the stepped up security here wherever you go but furthermore in a dramatic speech the head of mi-5 the united kingdom's domestic intelligence arm gave a speech last night and linked specifically syria and al qaeda elements and other militants to what they believe are plots aimed at the west more plots. he said in the last 14 months 20 plots have been identified and that they believe that there is something "mass casualty assault" planned somewhere in the west, could be in england, could be anywhere else on things like transport, on things like iconic landmarks.

so very very stark warning indeed by the head of british domestic intelligence. chris? >> christiane while we're waiting for more word and developments from these two scenes let's talk about what this means, what's happened already. to have these two connected if not concerted acts of violence in one city within days of one another, and these ongoing hostage situations how would you qualify this in terms of the level of risk and assault? >> well, look it's very high obviously. i mean again yesterday, you know what we've seen is in the words of the highest french authorities, the worst attack in france in 50 years. 5-0, half a century. what's going on right now is the worst they've had to deal with. i, too, was living in paris during the '90s and to be honest the level of threat then was much much lower than what's going on right now. and it is again, about we've been talking about this sort of

group of youngsters who may have been radicalized. it is classic grooming as it has been described, classic grooming by that radical imam using football using whatever they do. you hear that term grooming all the time on the internet whether it's in a terrorist situation or whether it's teenagers getting sucked into unsavory behavior. in other words, people out there able to turn the heads of those who are eager to have their heads turned or just vulnerable and being able to be turned around and deployed as a weapon of destruction. and that is what's happening here and again, the french authorities have said that look and we've said this over and over again, there are too many of them and not enough of us. it takes a huge amount of personnel and just manhours and people hours to actually surveiler. obviously it's troubling that the young cherif had been under, the young cherif kouachi had been under surveillance according to the ministry of

justice until this summer and then was no longer on their radar screen in terms of having been surveiled. you've got three incidence now, the "charlie hebdo," you've got the policewoman who was killed yesterday morning, and you've got this supermarket standoff that's happening right now. >> and now, christiane obviously as we wait for these situations to resolve right now, you're looking at more authorities coming in. we've heard that the mayor of paris is on their way to the scene at this kosher market but obviously we're going to have to wait. hopefully they get resolved quickly and as safely as possible. there's soft information about injuries already involved at the kosher market. we can't verify them but no matter what happens, christiane this is going to have an indelible impression on how the french authorities deal with the risk that they're dealing with among their own population and certainly for the people living in paris, and the french population. this is going to be something that will just be the worst kind

of wake-up call, but hopefully it comes to a quick resolution and there is no more bloodshed. thank you for your perspective. let me get back to new york right now. i'll let you know alisyn and michaela when we have any more developments. >> please do that chris. we'll join you again momentarily. we bring in paul cruickshank our cnn terrorism analyst and jim arcides, a former counterterrorism official. paul i want to star with you, what do with he know about the two new suspects who appear to be involved in the second hostage standoff as well as authorities say linked to the shooting of the policewoman in marouge yesterday? >> we know precious little about them beyond their faces, and their names. it does appear that at least one of them had a connection to this sort of al qaeda in iraq recruitment cell which was trying to recruit french nationals to go and fight in iraq against u.s. combat troops in iraq in those years which at

least one of the brothers involved in the attack on the "charlie hebdo" magazine was also involved in. so there does seem to be a connection between these two attacks, the attack on the satirical magazine and also this gunning down of a french police officer, female police officer yesterday morning in southern paris. it should be noted just a few hundred yards away from a jewish school which may have been the target according to some eyewitnesses on the scene yesterday. it's possible that the police officer was just a target of opportunity, because there was this traffic incident. >> the second standoff sat the kosher shop. jim, you talked about the fact there's very little known, paul but jim, let's just talk appearances. we have a male 33 years old, this new suspect, looking, appearing as if he is of african descent and notably a woman.

it's been interesting to hear what christiane amanpour was telling us that french officials were telling her of the travelers going from france to syria and the arabian peninsula that 30% are women. i think a lot of people will find that shocking. >> sure. i'm sure that they do. i think one of the things to discuss and i want to be very careful to caveat that this is all preliminary and we have no hard evidence to suggest this. >> fair enough. >> to confirm it but as events have unfolded outside of charles de gaulle airport and dammarten and this porte de vivennes incident as well i'd like to suggest perhaps the individuals involved in the kosher shop in porte de vincennes could have been possibly part of a wider network and had some sort of connection in the planning and perhaps escape routes to the kouachi brothers and we're now

at the point where, as events have unfolded and things have heated up with police activity individuals involved in the wider network with the kouachi brothers have decided that kind of the jig is up and it's time to get moving and they realized that the end is in sight and they may want to take matters into their own hands. >> jim, before we -- i want to stick with you, jim, for one more minute. before we knew about the two other suspects this man and this woman, you were saying they were part of this wider network. how were you so certain these two brothers did have bigger resources and a wider network? >> well i'm basing it on the fact that they went to al qaeda in the arabian peninsula in yemen and trained probably in 2005 and 2011. now, i want to be also careful about caveating the fact this was certainly an aqap attack. it certainly bears the hallmarks of being involved with the

network. that's what i'm talking about when i say wider network. there are those who have come back to europe with the skills that are necessary. just to time line things out very quickly, in 2005 and then in 2011, the quakouachi brothers went to yemen to engage in training it's believed at this point, and then came back. in 2012 al qaeda put the editor of "charlie hebdo" on its "most wanted list." it's unclear whether the most wanted list was from al qaeda in afghanistan pakistan or from al qaeda in the arabian peninsula. but beyond that coincidence, and the kouachi brothers may have been taking direction from this sort of almost subliminal indication that these are the people to target but we don't have confirmation i want to be clear about this we do not have confirmation there's been

correct command control and instruction from al qaeda in the arabian peninsula to the kouachi brothers to go and conduct this attack. so when you talk about lone wolves and talk about connections to networks it's almost it doesn't serve us completely well to make these kind of leaps without really clearly establishing what those linkages are. >> we're watching the scene unfold on our screen ahead of us. you can see a great military presence and i want to refer to that paul michaela here again, as we talk about what's happening there in paris, we're three days in. this is chaos unfolding on the streets and in the rural areas of in and around paris and this beautiful city that so many americans travel to. we talked about after the days and the hours after the "charlie hebdo" massacre about, paul the fact that this was the biggest act of violence in this kind of terrorism case that that country has seen in some two decades. i want to talk about the fact that this is now changing the game if you will.

this is a different kind of foe that anti-terrorism owe fushls are battleofficials are battleingbattling. >> that's right and the events of today have multiplied the impact of this terrorist attack. the terrorists involved will be aware of that that the world is watching. i think the fact that one of the brothers trained with al qaeda in yemen a few years ago, three years ago is an indication they're probably recruited into this organization al qaeda in yemen. this is an organization that doesn't give training to people who are not recruits. they're very very careful about westerner s westerners coming in. they're worried about spies. if the brother trained with the group it's highly likely he was recruited into the group and given everything we know about the group he was encouraged at the very least to go back to europe to plot attacks. it's possible there was a meeting at some point. it's not been confirmed with

anwr anwar al awlaki. these brothers are saying these are attacks in retaliation for the u.s. drone drik on awlaki in 2011. awlaki was inspiration nor a generation of extremists in the west also responsible for two attacks on u.s. aviation attempted plots. >> paul cruickshank and jim arkides, thanks for being with us. we'll have more breaking coverage of the two dramatic hostage standoffs that are unfolding in paris. more live from paris in one moment. ncer ] when john huntsman was diagnosed with cancer, he didn't just vow to beat it. i vowed to eradicate it from the earth. so he founded huntsman cancer institute. ♪ ♪ everything about it would be different. ♪ ♪ it would feel different. ♪ ♪ look different. and fight cancer in new and different ways. with the largest genetic database on earth that combines 300 years of family

histories with health records to treat, predict and in many cases, prevent, cancer. [ huntsman ] we made it welcoming and warm with a focus on beauty serenity and getting on with life. [ male announcer ] huntsman cancer institute is the only cancer hospital in the world designed by a patient, with the vital understanding that cancer moves fast. and we have to move faster. to learn more or support the cause, go to huntsmancancer.org. ♪ ♪

mpblt we will get back to our hostage standoff in france in a moment. we have major economic news at home to tell you about. employers added 252,000 jobs in december sent the unemployment rate down to 5.6% and november's job numbers were also just revised upwards, 2.9 million jobs were added in 2014 making that the strongest year for job growth since 1999. so we want to bring you that major economic domestic news. we get back to the breaking news in and around paris. back to chris cuomo who is on the ground there. chris? >> thanks alisyn. we have two developing critical situations here in paris. the first involves the two terror suspects from the horrible massacre here at the offices of "charlie hebdo"." they escaped by car, you'll remember. they encountered three different sets of police.

they wound up killing a police officer, executed him, we wanton ly very wantonly. he turned out to be a muslim police officer. they made it out of paris. surveillance took up the chase. contact made by helicopter. they followed them through the roads of northern paris. the suspects became aware of this. they abandoned their vehicle. they entered woods on foot although bringing their weapons. the authorities found some simple explosives reportedly in that vehicle. however, they were unable to find the suspects in those woods. overnight they used infrared and night vision to search surrounding fields. again, no contact. however, the following morning, the suspects were able to commandeer a vehicle. when they did so they announced to the person in the car that they were not going to hurt any civilians. that is proven untrue time and time again, and they also said we are from al qaeda in yemen. we are from aqap known as al

qaeda in the arabian peninsula, and we are doing this as revenge for the death of one of our leaders, the murder of one of our leaders. they then got chased in that vehicle into an industrial area in the northeastern part of france and that's where they are held up now. they are in an industrial area in an office building. looks kind of like a factory. you'll see it on your screen. they have surrounded by tons of french authorities, the french best their s.w.a.t. team a military outfit is in control of the operation. they've made contact with the suspects. the suspects have taken a hostage, a female they say they will not let her go and they are willing to be martyred for their cause, although they've had opportunities to be martyred and not taken them thus far and authorities are banking on that that with time and fatigue, they will be able to negotiate a settlement that brings no more violence but they are ready to launch an assault. that's what's going on there. we will aget to the scene in just a moment. however, there's a second situation going on. there was a shooting after the

massacre at "charlie hebdo's" offices, where at a routine traffic circle there was someone dressed similarly to the suspects in "charlie hebdo's" terrorist attack and they opened fire. they shot two police officers. one of them was a female. she died from her wounds. now the police the french authorities have announced two suspects. they showed pictures xz a male and female that had not been known about ever. subsequent there's a standoff at a kosher market just east of our location right now. we do not know if the people on your screen are who are being dealt with by the authorities right now in that kosher market but again, hostages are involved. we understand that when the suspect entered that market he told me there you know who i am and that is giving the authorities the reason to believe it may be the man who was just on your screen.

hostages again may include children and women, so now let's go to the scene of the industrial park where the two terrorists from the "charlie hebdo" attack are confined right now. that's where fred pleitgen is. fred what is the latest there? >> hi chris. it's this waiting game that continues here. what's going on is that the industrial area that you're talking about is only about 400 yards in that direction. the police have set up shop here. they have a headquarters kind of they set up actually in that building over there, sort of a gym building here. there's a lot of police officers here and a lot of police officers in the streets around here. i think if we pan over in that direction we can see just how many police vehicles there are parked on the street here. what's happened is that all this began to unfold at around 10:00 a.m. early this morning and the police then surrounded that industrial area. it's actually a kind of a print shop chris, is what we're hearing from the local people here, very well-known to the local folks here. it's the kind of place that you get your business cards printed, the kind of place you'd get

magazines printed, leaflets stuff like that. the other thing that's going on is the schools here are still on lockdown and if cloudy our camera operator goes further, ul ale see a parent waiting to pick up their child. some have been able to get their children out of the area. looks as if the authorities are starting to ease that lockdown a little bit. we're seeing more people on the streets and seen some parents who have been able to come in and get their children out of the school. we heard from other crews we have in the area here that other schools, the evacuation seems to have been lifted or at least the evac wagkcuations seem to have gone and parents were able to bring their children out of the schools. we heard perhaps they'd do a total evacuation get the kids out and parents pick them up. we have seen parents coming here to try andic. their children. looks the authorities have the situation under control, they

have the suspects cornered at that time and it is a waiting game. what we heard from the local mayor they're not going to make any fast moves and wait for this to play out. they certainly don't want to endanger the life of the hostage, chris. >> fred thank you very much and of course the reason to be careful is because there is a female hostage inside. we'll keep monitoring that situation. to the other active situation, where there are hostables involved and we're hearing reports there may be children hostages involved. jim sciutto you're there. i'm getting word from sources close to the investigation that the man that was put out by french authorities as a suspect in the shooting of the police officer yesterday is the man inside there, that he announced as much to people inside that market when he went in saying you know who i am. what do you hear from the ground there? jim?

all right i don't have jim now. when we get jim sciutto on the phone, he's there. what i just reported is that the person that french authorities put out as being a suspect in the shooting of a police officer yesterday, there were two actually two officers shot and two suspects names and pictures released if you want to put up the pictures that's what we're talking about right now, the man and woman at the bottom of your screen. she's supposedly his girlfriend and connected to the shooting by authorities yesterday. i'm told by sources close to the investigation that the man on your screen is the man inside the market right now and he announced himself as such. i want to bring in anderson cooper stabbing next to me right now. obviously you've been championing the coverage since it began. it's gotten complicated here this morning. here's what we're still trying to think through. authorities believe here at the offices of "charlie hebdo" there were three people involved right? they thought the third may have been a getaway driver may have been that 18 19-year-old kid.

they no longer think that anymore. >> right the 18-year-old gave himself up, had allegedly had alibis seems like he was not the person involved. >> right, that means they are still believing that there was a third person. >> at the very least a third person yes. there were also remember hand signals given by the attackers during this terror attack at "charlie hebdo," raising the question was there somebody else involved. now you have this woman whose photo is being shown as linked to this guy who appears to be according to eyewitnesses from north africa so it's not clear at least three people involved in "charlie hebdo." >> so the mystery is are these two people that their pictures and faces are on your screen who are believed to be the suspects of the shooting of the two police officers yesterday not here at "charlie hebdo," but were they here? are they involved in that as well? that doesn't seem clear. >> we are not clear in that. is this the third gunman the