linked because the shooters are linked themselves. cnn has been told by western intelligence source sources, the third suspect was a close association of cherif kouachi. our colleague and friend chris cuomo, has been doing an amazing job for us. he's on the scene for us. walk us through how all of this played out. it's not over yet. by any means because one suspect, this woman, is still on the loose. >> yes, and we also know wolf that french authorities have dispatched assets to the neighborhood where the brothers and this third terror suspect, a man of african decent knew each other. they don't know what other connections there could be what other accomplices could be. they're still unsure about who the third, an additional accomplice was here at the magazine massacre. they don't know if that man of african decent was the third man they were looking for. they had their eyes on this 18-year-old who turned himself in. authorities no longer believe it's him. but here's what we know. the conclusion of these two

stand offs happened in very different and dynamic ways. at the industrial park after being chased through the night, the men come deered a car, wound up being cornered there. they took a hostage, a man. the man found a way to get away to avoid the two hostage takers the terrorists. he hid himself we believe in a box. when this happened the terror suspects decided to take on the authorities. and when they did, their day ended very quickly. it was very different in the grocery store. in the kosher grocery. there, this man you had up there that earlier in the day, french authorities relaesed his picture and name as a suspect in the killing of a french police officer, a female yesterday and the shooting of a second. he and his alleged accomplice his girlfriend who was also pictured, he, the man, we don't know b about the woman, walked into this kosher grocery, announced to people there, you

know who i am, then took hostages. we're not sure how many. we believe children were involved. so what happened there was that french authorities observed the man going into what they thought was a prayer or a preparation for some violent action of his own accord because they had just seen the two brothers attacking authorities. that's what initiated the assault. they used flash bangs, which you know wolf for everybody else there's a big blast of light, they're disorienting a diversion, then they went in. it was very difficult there. i want to bring in hola. that kosher grocery, much tougher for authorities. the industrial park big, lots of points. two people one hostage. here one way in. we watched them struggling to get in. we were told it was very violent. >> and you were talking about that industrial zone situation. some reports are suggesting that technology may not even have been necessarily known to the two terrorists that they might

not have even known they had a hostage. authorities knew there was that individual inside but whether or not they knew he was a bargaining chip is unclear at this stage. recording the koechler supermarket, there were the question there of course is what happened in terms of loss of life among hostages. >> no hostages lost their lives, but we don't know the numbers. >> the reason we know that for sure is that the minister of interior came out, spoke to reporters and said he was saddened by the loss of life, including the young hostages, so at this stage, we can confirm that. the numbers are out there unless we have an accurate and definitive figure we don't want to communicate it. in the first few minutes after the end of these operations there was the sense that perhaps it was complete quote unquote clean in a sense that only the terrorists had been killed, but

it appears sadly from some hostages have been killed. >> we also don't know whether hostages lost their lives in the assault or before. we also know some had been injured. we saw a triage set up. we know that first responders french s.w.a.t. team members, they were also injured. but we have people on both scenes and let's rely on that advantage right now. we'll start with jim shuuto. you are at the kosher grocery. you watched it as it went down. you've gotten to move very close now. what do you assess in terms of how difficult this was and what happened inside in terms of the results for the hostages. >> chris, we were here as this raid unfolded several moments, electrifying moments, very nervous moments here as we heard those first explosions rounds of gunfire, then a few minutes later, more rounds of gunfire. an indication as you have said that this was a more difficult operation because of those circumstances inside. i want to play a clip of video as we were on the air live when those gun shots rang out here.

it gives you a real sense of just the tension in those early moments. i'll tell you, chris, you and i

have both been in iraq afghanistan and as i was standing here on the street in downtown paris, the capital of france heard that gunfire, heard those explosions it reminds me of baghdad or kabul. certainly not sounds i expected to hear here. as you'll remember this raid unfolded a number of minutes after the raid northeast of paris. clearly, the tactical units we have seen here all morning and early afternoon lining up surrounding this kosher market choose choosing to move in after the raid had ended. it resolved northeast of paris, concerned of course about the safety of the ponlghostages inside. another thing i'll say is that from the moment we arrived this morning, that there were clear signs that there were. >> katie: yulties as we drove here, we saw ambulances going away. i saw someone on a stretcher being taken into an ambulance. we counted three or four leaving the scene under police escort.

that was a number of hours before the raid started. after the raid started, we saw a number of ambulances coming emergency workers going in as those tactical units came out. there were very nervous moments and that gave us the early indication that some hostages and we know for sure, some of those tactical units did not come away unscathed. this neighborhood, a very different place now. early on in the day, all the schools in this area had been on lockdown. i met a lot of mothers who were held behind the police corden like we were going to the police and crying to them saying i need to know where my child is. i need to know my child is safe. it was only after that raid perhaps an hour when the schools were allowed to open again and we saw a lot of tearful reunions between parents and their children. thankfully in safe circumstances and right now, as that raid has gotten behind it allows us to bit closer to the scene, but there is still activity there. it does not look like they have

completely cleared away everything they need to clear away and we still have heard police sirens just in the last few minutes. >> we know jim, they're dealing with wounded both among the hostages and the first responders. we saw a really compelling photo there, a still of a man running out with a child in his arms. that was a very complex operation there and we'll wait to hear what the final details are of how it happened and who made it out. we want to go to atika. i don't know if you were able to listen before but hala was saying it's somewhat unknown about the status of who was being called a hostageness and whether this man was just hiding the entire time, whether the terrorists knew he was there and that's what triggered their assault on the officers there and wound up ending their lives. have you been able to pick up anything on that? >> no, it's not clear at this

point and police aren't giving us any details about that what we believe is an employee at the company, whether or not the suspects had any idea they was there and hiding or if they did know it's still unclear. it's incredible however, he's there and thankfully, has been released safely. what we understand from our affiliate is that the gunmen came out firing and i was just a few hundred meters away from the scene. we heard a volley of automatic gunfire. two relatively loud explosions nearby and then continuing gunfire a few minutes of silence then one final explosion that seemed to mark the end of the operation. but as you can imagine, people here very tense about what's happened and there's a certain sense of relief that it's over. in fact we've seen a lot of residents coming here to take a look at the cameras just to sort of see what's happened now that it's over. as you can see people takeing

photos of our live shot position here. people here glad it's over and especially that the person inside appears to be safe. >> thank you very much. wolf we want to send it back to you, but hala just identified something. people were debating loudly over our shoulders earlier about what leads to this radicalization and whether or not this muslim population here is being properly integrated into society. she found an article, you'll be able to see it yourself. >> the young man who was killed today, we believe -- in the hostage stand off at the kosher supermarket, the terror suspect, he was the subject of a 2009 article in a respected daily newspaper in france here called -- about youth unemployment. they were asking him questions about his life his frustrations not being able to find work. he was following a, and there's

a picture of him. he was following some sort of i guess training program at the coca-cola company, the local bottling plant and he was going to meet nicolas sarkozy. you can imagine that people who meet the president of france have to go through a number of background checks and make sure they're okay to meet the president of this country. and he passed all those tests at the time. >> wolf as you know people escape from poverty in paris and in big cities and small cities all over the world without turning to violence or crime let alone terrorism, but it is an aspect of the discussion here wolf about what are you doing with these young people from this burgeoning muslim population. they're french but are they being embraced given opportunities, and if not, what will wind up being the alternatives. >> this part of the tragedy what's going on, but in the short-term u they've got immediate issues. stay with us. i want to bring in some experts

now to discuss what's going on. this unfolding situation. joining us the retired lieutenant colonel, james reece, the cnn global affairs analyst, also joining us, tom fuentes, former fbi assistant director and paul as well as bob bair. thanks very much. i want to alert our viewers in the united states and around the world, we're anticipating that the president of france will be speaking about what has happened. these dramatic developments, shortly. we'll of course have live coverage of that. we're also told president obama is on a separate trip to knoxville, tennessee, we will be making some remarks about what has happened. three of these terrorists they are now dead. the female suspect is on the run. boumeddiene, how that there are others now still at large and there could be other attacks?

>> well, i think that's something they're looking for very diligently around the company. country. that's one of my concerns is that she was able to either slip out or what we call squirt out of the objectivity area when they thought they had it isolated but one of the things they're doing is back layering to make sure she's not trying to blend in tojust the situation right now with some of the hostages but this could be driving on to other parts of the cell. which is concerning for the police and intel services in france. >> that's very disturbing that this woman, apparently, an accomplice accomplice, she's still on the loose. >> right. does chef access to more weapons or explosives or other individuals who may want to get those weapons. that's a very difficult problem for them now and they probably don't have the intel on her being much younger and being a

peripheral member on this, probably don't have as much information on her. >> i think they had a lot of information on the other three. been going back with the u.s. and french looking at their background including the connection to al-qaeda in the arabian peninsula in yemen. >> that's the most disturbing part of this, is that one of those brothers trained with al-qaeda in yemen. now, this terrorist group would not have allowed them to train with him if they hadn't recruited him and swear allegiance to them, so it's highly likely he joined this group and they were a stakeholder to some degree in this terrorist attack. if that's the case that stock is going to rise in the global jihadist movement. >> there's a little rivalry going on between al-qaeda and qap as it's called as well as isis for example, even though they may have similar objectives they're competing for support. >> there's a huge amount of rivalry. a war of words, recently

al-qaeda and yemen said that isis wasn't legitimate so they're looking to restore the al-qaeda brand to the headlines here. >> it's a very disturbing development. bob bair, what worries you the most as you see this situation unfold? three of these terrorists are dead. one woman, an accomplice is as large. there may be others at large as well. >> well, wolf, exactly. i've been in touch with french officials is last couple of days and they are worried this is the beginning of a series of attacks. might not just be france. might be across europe. i've been in touch with u.s. law enforcement, who are very worried these isolated groups could do the same thing. >> i'm going to interrupt, the internor minister of france briefing reporters. i want to listen in. >> accomplishing this with police officerses who are highly competent and i want to work again and admire their

exceptional work they have accomplished in order to save lives and neutralize the dangerous terrorists. thank you. there are inquiries taking place. which are currently being claire clarified as you know since beginning of this crisis. since we've been faced with this questions. i'm never expressed myself without coordinateing with the judicial authorities and without something being precise in the context of wanting to give the truth to the french people in this context we want to give information is absolutely verified. thank you. >> there you have it. he is very sensitive to this statements if you will. there's information that can be released. they don't want to release some information.

for sensitive security reasons. they don't want to help others who may be involved in this get information that could help them escape the law. i interrupted you, bob, but go ahead and finish your thought. >> well i think the french are worried they don't really have a handle on this. this isn't an isolated group and keep in mind, the french are very good internal intelligence service. i lived there for three years. fell under their scrutiny and watched them. worked with the french police an we shouldn't look at this as they let this slip through the net. they are very very good and if they're worried at this point, so am i. >> they clearly are worried and it's by no means over right now. colonel reece, let's go through some of the possibilities going on. this woman, she escaped. it's hard to believe she could escape a situation like this when they were surrounded by so

many law enforcement personnel, but she's on the loose right now and they're trying to find her, but maybe more importantly, they're trying to find out if others were involved. others in this so-called cell. >> yeah wolf like i said a few minutes ago, we're not exactly sure she escaped. the one thing you want to do in a hostage rescue before you initiate the assault, isolate the target. we believe they did that. the concerning thing like i said before if she was able to squirt or slip outside of that isolation bubble that's a concern. what those forces are doing right now is what we call back clear. they're walking back through their steps of how they went in. walking all the way back. every one of those hostages is being looked at checked, to make sure she's just not hiding somewhere because they're also puzzled how she could have slipped. now, if she did, you're right. you're looking at probably a cell between six to ten people from my estimation.

because the bigger the cell gets, that means they're upset is not as good and more information could flow, but there could be folks that help with lodgistics or other aspects out there that she's trying to get to to put signals out and possibly try other harm within paris. >> back to chris cuomo, our man in paris right now. there are conflicting reports out there about how many hostages may have been killed or injured that the kosher supermarket in paris. do we have any hard reliable official information on that point? >> no wolf. i asked jim if he could get some better information because he's close to the scene, but you are correct. the assertion that hostages did lose their lives and others were injured during the assault is accurate. what we don't know is how many and we also don't know whether or not the terrorist inside killed them before or during or whether they were otherwise hit

during the assault. we don't know. but we have been told we are going to hear hard news about the fate of some of those people. we saw a really arresting image of a man carrying a child. not just a child. an infant out of there in his arms. so we know that the speculation that kids were inside was also accurate. >> is it the assumption chris, that this terrorist wanted to go to this kosher supermarket or was it just convenient? coincidental that it was jewish owned? >> sources close to the investigation have said it was not a target, however, they have said when he entered, witnesses inside the store said that upon entering the kosher market, he said you know who i am. so certainly, there was

intentionality in terms of what he wanted people to know inside that store. he had also been largely off the radar, we're told, over the course of the past 24 hours. he and his female/girlfriend accomplice and the question is did they have opportunity to get farther away and choose to come closer into paris. choose to create some kind of conflict situation. feeding that understanding is the reporting from investigators, wolf, that one of the early things that the terrorist wanted was to have the hostages he was holding released in exchange for the brothers release. >> and this is a very sensitive issue. a very significant issue, the demand this guy was making, coulibaly, that he wanted those two other terrorists to be released in exchange for the hostages being held at that supermarket. that was one of his demands, right? >> that was one of his reported

demands and then it would confirm the reports as well that the two suspected shooters in the charlie hebdo massacre and coulibaly, this man there who was involved in the stand off according to authorities at the kosher supermarket, at least knew each other, had been friends in the past. we understand that according to reports, they had been part of the same sports team soccer team outside of paris. so this would confirm that information and give investigators something more than to work on. it's not just a question of random and separate attacks, but potentially some sort of agreement made among friends, associates. there was some sort of understanding that there were targets throughout paris including charlie hebdo, that they wanted to strike and found legitimate. you mentioned that the girlfriend accomplice/girlfriend

is at large and so this is something that certainly authorities are going to have to work on on revolving very quickly. >> i'm sure they'll find her. the question is how quickly. stand by. chris, stand by. paul you've been looking at these jihadi websites. has anyone claimed responsibility al-qaeda arabian peninsula, has anyone said these are our guys and we did it? >> no. isis has said well done. al-qaeda in northern africa have said well done. we have not heard from al-qaeda in yemen if there was a connection it's possible we'll hear a lot from them in the hours to come. this is a group that when they recruit westerners, they got them to record tapes in the past. we don't know if the french recruit recorded a tape, we're going to watch and see. >> that's significant because if these three terrorists who are

now dead did they record what they call martyrdom tapes to be released on these websites after their death. we're going to be monitoring that closely to see if there are statements. everyone stand by. we're waiting to hear from the president of france, he is about to make a statement. he will update us on what is going on. we're also waiting to hear from president obama. he's getting ready to make a statement on the terror attacks in france we're watching all of this much more of the breaking news right after this short break. so ally bank really has no hidden fees on savings accounts? that's right. it's just that i'm worried about you know "hidden things..." ok, why's that? no hidden fees from the bank where no branches equals great rates.

these ally bank ira cds really do sound like a sure thing but i'm a bit skeptical of sure things. why's that? look what daddy's got... ahhhhhhhhhh!!!!! growth you can count on from the bank where no branches equals great rates. we're standing by to hear from the president of france. he's about to make a statement on these twin hostage situations that unfolded in france today. these three terrorists they are now confirmed dead. two at one location, an

industrial park. a third at a kosher supermarket. the woman, girlfriend or accomplice whatever way you want to describe her, she remains at large. chris cuomo, i don't know what the french president is going to say, but clearly, all of france i should say a bunch of europe all over the world, a lot of people are very uneasy right now because of what has happened over these past couple of days. >> well, wolf, this is a very complex situation. for the president in france. because he has not only the threat that is faced in the united states and every other well developed democracy, foreign fighters coming lone wolves domestic terror cells, but he has this disproportionate problem. you have a significant muslim population here, now the number two relation behind kai-- it needs

to be integrated. he has cultural issues and economic ones he's going to take on because many people will point to those issues as feeding this radicalization we saw take root here over the last few days. however however, i want to bring in some value added. i have a former french navy s.e.a.l. you heard very interesting details about what happened inside these two stand offs that have nothing to do with the authorities, but from a magazine that was able to contact the men let's start first inside the industrial building the two brothers and what they learned about the two brothers about why they were doing this and who they were. what did they learn? >> it's very interesting what i heard about that. one newspaper magazine decided to call directly in the factory the printing works factory -- >> so, they just called the factory and got the brothers.

>> yeah just called the number and got the brother to go to cherif and that guy said okay i'm, i am paid by yemen to perform action in france. >> he was paid by al-qaeda yemen to do this. >> that's what he said, his voice, it was clear what he said about that. so he said okay we have to perform action paid by al-qaeda yemen and we don't want to kill women and children. >> so they did, but he said that's not what they plan. >> from them what was said charlie hebdo was the target, our enemies. >> so charlie hebdo is the enemy and that's why we're going after them. they were trained in yemen, they said. >> exactly. trained in yemen. >> paid to do this. >> sent by some -- and paid by those guys to perform action. >> so that's interesting, wolf but then it gets more interesting because then the magazine gets a phone call to

the magazine office from -- >> a guy who was inside the grocery market. >> the third terror suspect inside the kosher market. what does he say? >> i want to reach authorities, so tried to discus with him and ask why are you doing that and explain do you have some -- the brother and said -- >> so he said i am connected to the brother. >> charlie hebdo was the target. my job was the target the police. >> so, he did not pus himself at charlie hebdo, as the third member of the team here. >> didn't say that. >> but he did say i'm supposed to go hit these two other officers. two were shot. one was a female, she died from her wounds. >> then he said to choose a grocery market to take hostages. >> why that market? >> because he like it. >> what do you mean?

>> he liked that place. >> was protection inside and when he rush inside, he killed four hostages. >> was it because it was a jewish market or he just thought it was a target -- >> i don't have that information. >> so, we doebt know that part, wolf. i know that was an important aspect we were dealing with. however, what happened when he went in you're saying right away he killed? >> yeah he killed those four hostages. >> this is what he said to the magazine. >> and was 16 people inside. >> 16. >> that's why so many people escaping from the grocery market when s.w.a.t. team. >> so by his own admission, he said he killed people when he entered inside and that there were 16 inside. >> wolf. >> and he said i'm working for isis. >> isis? he said isis. >> interesting because one side we have al-qaeda yemen and the other side, we have the isis.

branch. >> it's not comepletely consistent information, wolf, but very interesting in piecing together the motivations and mind set of these men. >> we have not confirmed that four of the hostages were murdered by this terrorist. your guest is saying that. ask him what the source is for that suggestion, that very alarming suggestion that the terrorist went into that kosher supermarket and murdered four people right away. >> right, wolf is asking the obvious question, very important, that the man's admission that i killed four people i picked this that's what he said to the magazine that's the source of the information? >> yes, exactly. >> and you heard someone from the magazine reporting that conversation? >> exactly, yes. heard the voice on the first cherif. >> they had that recording. the cherif conversation

recorded. did they have the one in the kosher market recorded? >> i'm not sure. >> o kye but you did hear it reported by the magazine. that's why we're trying to track down the magazine to get their version of events but this is what's out there from this magazine. >> that information very very soon, since the beginning they are thinking -- to not compromise investigation and preparation. >> do the police have the information? >> yes. >> they did, so the magazine had communicated with authorities, but didn't make it public because they didn't want to compromise the investigation. that's what we have from here. we're reaching out to the magazine. we'll get you more. >> we've got to hear from the police and this guy named said. he killed four people inside that market but did he really four people are dead because of a result of what this guy told the magazine, so i want to be cautious. chris, we'll get back to you in a moment. i want to bring tom fuentes into this. what do you make of what we just

heard? >> i think what's usual about that is you have one of the terrorists brothers i should say, taking credit saying al-qaeda arabian peninsula, yemen, was directing them then you have the third guy at the market saying isis. and normally you wouldn't see, i'm anxious to hear what paul has to say about that. >> there's a little rivalry, but a lot of overlap. >> i don't think a group could be doing this for both isis and aqap. this is very early information, not confirmed by cnn at this point. we'll have to kind of do more reporting on this. >> clearly, paul there were collaborations between isis and aqap that would raise this to a whole new level. >> it would, but i don't think that's -- >> colonel reece, what do you make of what we just heard? >> i think the guy in the south who assaulted the store, i think he was in a panic. came in i think he said 14 to 16 people he comes rushing in

him and his girlfriend with a weapon. he's all excited, doesn't know what to do and first thing he does is pull the trigger, drops some people gets everyone down. i think my assessment this probably caused the assault force commander up north and for the hostage negotiators to start looking at this, to start making a plan for what we call a near simultaneous assault. if those four people were killed, they had to look at it. i was hoping it was going to last a little longer until nighttime, but it got to dusk and i think that was the cause. plus i believe they had some communication between the north side and south side that the law enforcement and the assault force folks knew and so that really started pushing the timeline down for the assault. which again, you've been talking about it for a day now. is they'd rather just let this thing play out if they can with negotiators, but once someone's been killed, the gas pedal goes on to start the assault.

>> and presumably, they would explain a near simultaneous operation at these two locations. >> absolutely. as i've been watching now, the target up north, i would tell you from a target perspective, probably a little bit easier. it sounds like there weren't many people inside. multiple entrance points to get in and the gign up there ready to go. tier one force up there. as i watched the southern aspect and again, this happens everywhere around the world, these type of forces when you commit your tier one force, in the one target then you've got to go down to your next level of forces. as i watched the rsforces down south start to get prepped, they did not look as organized as the guys up front, but again, down south, you've got the store you're in more of a built up area. you've got all these different ins and outs alley ways streets coming in.

it's a much more difficult target to take down and they might not have had as many entrance points and you want to try to go in multiple locations to make the bad guys fight in opposite directions. >> bob bair, you said you served in france for three years, so you know how the french operate. i assume there is a massive sweep underway right now. a lot of potential suspects out there. people who may have known these three terrorists are being rounded up being questioned. walk us through what might be going on. >> for start, they'll be going through telephone records, cell phones any communications between these people. going through travel documents. a lot of these people were on lists, but that doesn't mean you can put them in jail. i think at this point, the french are going to be knocking on doors. the french when they pull out the stops, really know how to do it and they are terribly shaken by this and they have a very very competent police force.

it may not look like it to casual viewers, but they are very very good and they're going to move hard. what's really going to be interesting to me is what they do about the muslim population in france because it is disaffected to say the least and they have a lot of potential recruits there. not being integrated. they can't make it in society. unemployment through the roof and so the french police really have their work cut out for them. >> they certainly do. stand by. we're waiting to hear from the french president. he is going to be speaking shortly. we're told president obama will be making a tamt as well about the situation in france. we'll take another break. much more right after this.

welcome back. we're waiting to hear from the french president. once he starts speaks, we'll have live coverage of that.

let's update you now on what we know. just a little while ago, french police and special forces successfully ended two hostage stand offs. they were the subject of a massive nationwide man hunt. before being cornered in an industrial complex near the airport, both the brothers are dead. the other involved a man linked to the brothers he was the suspect in the shooting yesterday of a policewoman. he had taken several hostages in a kosher market. that suspect is now also dead. the fourth suspect remains on the loose now. she's linked to the killing of the policewoman on wednesday. it's unknown what her role was in the kosher market stand off. she is on the loose right now.

a lot going on as we await the situation. let me bring in tom fuentes, our law enforcement analyst. tom, you served in france. you've worked closely when you were the assistant director of the fbi with the french. they've got major problems over there right now. >> when i was running fbi international and on the board of interpol having frequent trips to paris and france the ministers and head of their police would tell me you're not going -- we have mor rock cans and algerians here the parents were born in france the kids. they still think of themselves and don't assimilate their society doesn't operate the way the u.s. society does. >> bob, was that your experience? >> oh, absolutely. these suburbs around paris or

leone or nice are poor. there's no opportunity. these kids cannot grow up through the bureaucracy. they don't go to the good schools. they have to work at menial labor. on top of that you have a -- so that combination, the alienation easy weapons make france a vulnerable target. there's not a lot the french police can do except come down on them hard. that will cause real political problems in france, also. >> paul, you studied these groups. are these organizations in france likely to help these groups recruit more individuals? >> unfortunately, yes. they're going to use this for propaganda purchases. we may see videos the brothers said they were doing this to avenge the death of an american

terrorist cleric who was a key figure in this group who inspired a generation of jihadists. >> he was killed by a u.s. drone in 2011. >> in september 2011 following a cia kind of operation, an absolute key figure. he himself plotted two attacks against the united states. the bombing attempt on christmas day in 2009 and that printer bomb plot. he was plotting more attacks when he was killed. a lot of jihadys around the world, they were distraught when he died and wanted to avenge him. the boston bombers were also inspired by him. the brothers involved if that wolf. >> let me bring back chris cuomo. set the scene a little bit, chris, i'm really curious the mood that you sense what's going on right now now that these two hostage situations are over but a lot of folks are bracing potentially. we hope it doesn't happen, but they're bracing for more.

>> well as is often the case in big cities, wolf, as you know well. life kind of goes on around these violent situations. you have paris moving and one of the frustrations and what happened for authorities at charlie hebdo, it was 11:30, 12:00 lunchtime locally and yet these men were able to get away by car although this was so much traffic. however, today, the memorial for charlie hebdo is right over my shoulder. it's been growing literally by the hour. flowers, candles, notes. people putting down different protests against the violence. so we've been seeing that and we'll get one of the cameras up to show you what i'm talking about because at night we'll get the glow of it and people have been there to pay their respects but there was also a lot of people you know passively watching what was going on on our monitors here,

but there was debate that was starting, also, that goes to the conversation you were just having with paul and your other guests about well why did this happen? why are these muslims, what is it about french culture or society that is feeding this and not solving it and there were real differences of opinion here about whether or not they're really french or not and if they are french is the government and the population and the culture embracing them and assimilating the way they need to. so there's been a lot going on here, but wolf, it's so early. this is an unusually violent and complex situation they just liveded through and it's going to have very far reaching implications not just for government but for society. more than a few people on the expert level have told us this is a wake up call for french society. that the war on terrorism isn't

abroad it's at home as well. >> and we'll hear from the french president says when he gets before that microphone. the u.s. attorney general will be heading to paris this weekend for high level meetings with french officials. that is going to happen this weekend. richard haas is joining us now. he's a former u.s. official. on foreign relations. take us through the big picture right now. what are the most important lessons, not only france other countries in europe the united states but the world needs to learn right now from what has just happened in paris. >> probably the single most important lesson is that this is not an exception. i'm uncomfortable saying thest the new normal but it could be. this is retail terrorism. now, we've seen a roughly a half dozen such incidents in the united states canada australia and france as opposed to something as dramatic as 9/11 and the problem with retail terrorism, it's much more difficult to detect and

essentially, every single place where people live and work becomes a potential target so there's limits to what law enforcement can do to prevent it. this is a frightening scenario. it shows the ability of events in the middle east both by example or as training ground to radicalize the middle east or to essentially spread. this is yet another form of globalization and it's anything but benign. >> so what should the u.s. government now if you were advising president obama and his national security team, what would you tell them? >> well several things we'd need to do but there's no solution. this is not so much a problem to be solved but if we're lucky, emphasize that it's a condition to be managed. in the middle east we need to regain the momentum. we need to take away the recruiting argument from these groups that somehow, they're the wave of the future. initially, that will be iraq.

it will be shoring up the neighbors of iraq and syria. over time it will mean doing something in syria. it means we've got to use law enforcement. we've got to think about the use of intelligence. what we do to reduce vulnerable vulnerability and probably as important as anything, it's a conversation within the muslim community and nonmuslims can be part of that, but what steps can be adobe to delegitimize this sort of behavior and it's going to be far more important that muslim community delegitimize it than anything non muslims could ever say. >> what do you make of the fact that the two brothers were working for al-qaeda the arabian peninsula in

r deaths. france faced up to this. first of all, i express all my solidarity to the families of the victims of the wounded but france faced up to it because when she overcomes a hardship a tragedy for the nation and this is an obligation for us to face up to it. the killers have been out of is a state of arm due to two operation s

operations. i want to congratulate the courage, the bravery of the police officers of all of those who participated in these operations. i want to say to them that we are proud, proud of them because order has been given and they carried out the assault with the same result. they did this to save human lives. those of the hostages. they did this to neutralize the terrorists. those who had killed but france even if she is aware that she's overcome she can together with security forces bring man and women who are capable. france has not finished with this threat. and so i want to call on you for

vigilance. vigilance for the state to show demonstration and together the prime minister i have a reinforced even more in order to protect public places and to ensure that we can live peacefully without any time being threatened or at risk but we must be vigilant. i call on you also to unity because i expressed myself the french people this is our best weapon. unity that we must demonstrate our determination to fight against anything that can divide us and first of all, to be impeccable to be totally against any racism and anti-semi

anti-seminichl. not to be divided means we must not make any confusion and to make it easy to remove any concerning these terrorists and fanatics that have nothing to do with the muslim religion. finally, we must mobilize ourselves. we have to be capable to respond to the attacks with force because we have to use force but also with solidarity. this solidarity is something that we have to show with all our capacities. we're a free people. we will not give in to any pressure to any fears because we have an ideal which is greater than ourselves and we are capable of defending peace and capable of protecting ourselves from these threats. i want to thank the soldiers for

undertaking our responsibilities facing the terrorists. the head of state and the head of government want to thank our solidarity throughout the world and who will be there for the great meeting on sunday. i will be with them and i call on all french women and french men to rise up on sunday in order to carry these values of democracy, of freedom of pluralism to which we are all attached and europe to some extent and in this hardship i show you we will come out even stronger from this hardship. long live the republic. long live france. >> all right. there you have the president of france francois hollande.

richard haas you heard the president of france. give us your reaction. >> what you see is the dilemma or challenge for any free society, wolf. on one hand you talk about strength. for good reason congratulated and thanked the french police and military forces who were involved in today's events. he's also basically saying we've got to not just pull together as a society, but we can't overreact. there's no room for various types of bigotry and he obviously doesn't want to see anti-muslim sentiment in any way come out of this which would only over time lead to more young men and women doing terrible things. i think that's the challenge for society is to get the goldilocks thing. you can't underreact. you can't overreact. getting it just right will be awfully difficult. >> chris cuomo, you are there in paris for us.

have you sensed from the few days that you've been there a growing anti-muslim sentiment on the streets of paris? >> reporter: no. that would be a very difficult thing to tell. certainly i haven't seen anything that i could report on that way. i mean we have been getting read in about what cultural tensions do exist here. there's a large part of the population that's assimilated. what's happened in north paris is not a secret. we know there were riots there several years ago. there are what they call no-go zones. there are problems with policing. problems with disenfranchisement and we hear about that in urban centers about what they have to deal with in terms of minorities. you are also going to have a phobic response when you have a particular member of a group that seems to be attacking the rest.

the reaction has been to the violence. it hasn't been cultural or muslim centered. it's just been who is doing it and how is it going to be stopped? >> just listening between the lines to what president hollande said he's telling the people of france get ready for more of this. >> the president had a great speech. he now has to rally his country. they have to be prepared for what they're doing. and he needs to get onboard and get everyone going whether it's the law enforcement, military forces and i think he realizes that we're in a long war. he realizes what has been going on in the u.s. and in europe and across the nation. it's a long war. >> very different circumstances. 9/11 here in the united states what has happened in paris over the past couple of days but this is presumably a turning point for the people of france. >> i think absolutely. in the mid '80s there were some bombings done by hezbollah and

in the '90s, a group attached the french but this is very different. they've taken over the center of the city essentially and the french will react. you have a weak president. hollande's numbers are way down. you'll have to see the president turn on this violence and radicals in a strong way or the socialists are going to lose the election for sure. >> these terrorists think this is a big win for them don't they? >> they think it's a big win. this is electrifying. they have been calculating for years and years if they can strike the cartoonists, they can boost recruitment and boost their profile. >> i think vigilance will have to stay at the highest level. we've had threats and warnings and concerns. >> i don't think the united states is at the highest

security level. >> the services are. maybe the public isn't because we've got warning fatigue but whether it's the law enforcement or intel services fbi, the cia, they have been -- you can only stay so high so long. and they've been at that. they know they don't have resources to cover. here in the u.s. we have 1.1 million people on the terror watch list. 47,000 estimated on the no-fly list. there's not enough people here to follow every one of them around and you never know. you can't read minds to know when that one or two or three are going to break bad and go violent. >> there's very very close collaboration between the u.s. and the french security services right? >> absolutely. there's been no hiatus ever. they give us everything they have and we give them everything we have. we work closely together even on technology. not much you can do about that. the real question we should be looking at is the same frenchmen can come to this country without

visas and as we know they can much more easily pick up automatic weapons and i keep on asking law enforcement here is it going to happen? is it going to happen here? all i get is they're here. i don't think there's anything specific and we may just get lucky or one of these groups may appear here and it will be too late. >> let me go back to chris cuomo. he's still obviously covering what's going on in paris for us. it's now the top of the hour. we're standing by. we just heard from the president of france, francois hollande. getting ready to hear from president obama. set the scene for us right now for viewers here in the united states or around the world who are just tuning up. update us on what's happened over the past few hours. >> reporter: obviously the culmination of what started here at the offices of charlie hebdo wound up findi