ng to non-existent passersby and fluffing his non-existent hair. jeanne moos, cnn. new york. >> thanks so much for joining us. be sure to dvr "outfront" so you can watch us anytime. "ac 360" starts now. thanks for joining us. the dna evidence that might link one of the paris killers to a larger terror cell. new reporting on the mistakes that allowed the other two killers to remain free to plan their deadly rampage. hundreds of children buried here. the local coroner said many simply did not have to die. we talk to a lawmaker who says why it's operating to the blessing of its colleagues. sandwiched between two tractor-trailers. how do you walk away from a wreck like this with barely a scratch. there's a person there, a man sandwiched in there in his

vehicle. possibly new vital pieces of the france kill, with a man now in custody. item two concerns the kouachi brothers. it's actually a collection of missed opportunities to keep a closer watch on them. yet more warning signs that were not acted on. details on that from pamela brown who joins us from paris. authorities in france are following up on this dna evidence collected to the attack on the kosher market. what's the latest on that? >> reporter: that's right. authorities here in france are honing in on two individuals, anderson. one is in police custody right now. his dna was found on coulibaly's car, in the car that transported him to the kosher market. the other man's dna was found on

cowly coulibaly's gun. >> in terms of tracking the kouachi brothers in the months and years before the attack i understand intelligence failures have now been revealed. >> reporter: yeah significant missteps we're learning anderson from sources. we know the kouachi brothers were put on surveillance. intelligence agencies only monitored their phones not their computers. so critical evidence that may have been on their computers was missed. we know one of the brothers was watching sermons from american cleric and the arabian peninsula. in 2014 one of the intelligence agencies was alerted to something found on said kouachi's phones. that was concerning. but they didn't pass that on until four months later to the domestic spy agency here in france. by then the brothers were already taken off surveillance. just the fact in general they were taken off surveillance is

concerning. one of the brothers cherif kouachi, the authorities didn't think he was a threat anymore or involved with terror activities so they lifted the surveillance on him. turns out he used the proceeds from the sales to buy weapons. >> we're going to report more on the beltin threat in a moment. the french arrested two people allegedly connected to that plot trying to cross their border. >> reporter: that's right. there were two people apparently crossing from france into italy that have been arrested in connection to the belgian terrorist plot. we learned that those terrorists who were planning an imminent threat trying to murder police officers there. belgian authorities have asked for the extradition of those two suspects as well as the extradition of the suspect in greece and algerian man believed to be tied to the cell. it's very concerning anderson because authorities believe there are other jihadists who have returned from syria fighting alongside isis as well as these suspects in their

custody, and those still on the loose. a manhunt is under way for those people. >> a lot of moving parts. pam brown, thanks very much. another major new development in that alleged belgian plot that involved up to 20 sleeper cells, 180 people they say ready to carry out attacks across western europe. a raid left two suspects dead in belgium, and others rounding up suspected cell members. a ringleader has been identified a one man called a link to isis in syria. paul has been reporting the story. he joins us now. i know you've been talking to belgian counterterrorism officials. what have they told you about this ringleader? >> he's a belgian-moroccan 27 years old, went to syria and iraq to join isis about a year ago. he's believed to have directed this cell who were plotting this attack in belgium from greece.

he was operating in greece. he traveled from syria to greece. in turn he had connections to the senior leadership of isis. belgian counterterrorism authorities believe isis directed this plot. and it was going to be a major plot in belgium. >> you've talked about this as a potential game-changer the notion that isis could actually be directing attacks in europe. why? because it's the first time that there seems to be evidence of an effort by them to actually do that? >> that's absolutely right, anderson. think of all of isis' resources. we've been talking about it for a long time tens of millions of cash reserves the training camps, the fact that they have up to thousands of recruits in iraq. and returning from syria to europe who thought jihad had potential terrorist skills. all that amounts to a very big threat. european intelligence agencies are detecting isis moving into the international terrorism business plots in europe

against the countries involved and air strikes against isis in iraq in denmark and holland and also belgium. >> we just heard pamela brown's report and she was reporting on intelligence lapses stopping the "charlie hebdo" attacks. are there intelligence agencies not connecting the dots? i heard some people relate it to what the u.s. wasn't prior to 9/11. >> it's a hard challenge for the europeans. there's not the cooperation between the different countries that you see between, say, different agencies in the united states. because obviously many different countries in europe they all have different systems. and within countries, there are rivalries within the intelligence services. in france in the external intelligence service and domestic intelligence service, they're trying to rotate staff between the different agencies so they can connect the dots. but clearly, we've seen several

failures most recently with these attacks in paris, anderson. >> paul kirkshampgnk i appreciate that very much. authorities now safe both of the kouachi brothers who attacked the offices of "charlie hebdo" had traveled there for training. that put fresh spotlight on the country. nick is on the ground in the capital. he joins us now. it's obviously very confusing, fluid situation on the ground there. what's the latest tonight in terms of this security situation? >> reporter: we have a standoff now for control of the country. the movement who today seemed to move toward the presidential administration they claim they were attacked first, effectively surrounding the prime minister and his residence. there are tense talks happening in which there's supposed to be frankly, a magical political compromise.

talking to the presidential administration asking it seems, according to the administrative minister in order to release the president's chief of staff from their detention. that's really what sparked all this. the president's men deeply concerned. more of them could be aducked by the houthis. we've seen a remarkable artillery duel in the administration. the prime minister and the houthi delegation as they left the talks shut out by their own parties. very messy day. actually i just heard over as we see potentially dawn in the next hour light gunfire to the left of me. that being an exception really. it has been quiet since the cease-fire. the political deal must deliver or we could see violence again this morning. >> explain the players here. there's this rebel group, the houthis, but the al qaeda affiliate there is an enemy of the rebel group, correct?

>> reporter: absolutely. this is what makes it so much more dangerous. the houthis predominantly share a group of militia, tribesmen. diplomats say assisted by iran which they deny. sweeping into the capital of senai, taking over much of that key city clashing with the government. but also letting them exist briefly. but of course eventually those two powers came to some sort of clash, and we saw that today. separately are the sunni tribes that feel threatened by the shia divide. and a lot of the middle east sect yant. sometimes al qaeda joins those tribes and the attacks of the houthis as well. the real fear that the shia are fermenting unity and giving al qaeda a boost here. that's why this chaos is in two ways so damaging potentially to western interests. >> dangerous days there.

nick stay safe. set your dvr, watch 360 whenever you want. documenting nearly every step in one man's plot to commit mass murder in the name of islam. >> i'm going to go inside a place, a capital, or somewhere. >> later, what one politician this one did, when his talking points on muslim no-go zones in england came up against the facts. did he drop the talking points? we're keeping them honest, ahead.

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capital, naming that a single person with bad intentions might be easily influenced by jihadist propaganda can wreak havoc. they can be hard to identify and stop. we've been talking about that. new video released by the fbi shows how hard it is to infiltrate a suspect's dark world and groom them and then arrest them. this man had similar plans. but agents were with him nearly step of the way shooting video all the while. video you're about to see. here's our susan candiotti. >> reporter: the video is convincing. watch the man sitting in the front seat. a hidden camera rolling inside a car. amin sounds like his mind's made up.

>> reporter: a rare frightening look inside the mind of a would-be suicide bomber. ready to strap on a vest with explosives and blow himself up at the u.s. capitol. a lone wolf stopped by an fbi undercover sting. >> the difference here is not just the clear intent to strike us here but the pursuit of the capability to be able to conduct that attack. i think the tape shows that very well. >> reporter: el khalifi seeking revenge on the u.s. for its war on terror. he's convinced god's telling him to kill. >> reporter: he's in a hurry. the moroccan national is living illegally in the u.s., dealing with assault charges. >> my work is done. >> reporter: willing to die, he's inside a store buying nalts

for shrapnel for his body bomb. bragging about the size of the nails, excited about the damage he can do. >> reporter: again, he brings up his target, the u.s. congress. >> reporter: undercover agents drive him to a landfall setting up a test bomb for his suicide vest. back inside the car, undercover agents using a cell phone show him how easy it is to detonate a bomb. >> you're going to call it. okay? >> reporter: he gives him the phone, and moments later -- >> whoa! >> reporter: the time is getting closer. >> i'm not thinking about

anything. nothing. i have my decision. >> reporter: and his dream includes shooting anyone who gets in his way. in a hotel room with undercover agents he practices with a mac-10. >> hold the trigger -- >> reporter: ready to target the capitol. el khalifi drives to a garage puts on what he thinks is a real suicide vest and grabs a loaded mac-10. both are duds provided by the fbi, and agents take him down. >> individuals who are self-radicalized can exist off the radar, as it were for a long time. until they're ready to actually go out and act. and that's the scenario that causes us the most concern. >> reporter: after pleading guilty el khalifi gets a 30-year sentence. he tells a judge, i just want to say, i love allah.

susan candiotti, cnn, washington. >> that undercover operation lasted more than a year. el khalifi was arrested back in february of 2012. fast forward to chris cornell in ohio. joining me is former bush homeland security adviser fran townsend. after watching that you have to ask, why do these fbi agents wait until the last minute to take him down? was that just a matter of trying to build their case as much as they could? >> not only that anderson in these sort of undercover operations they're trying to protect the investigation from is entrapment defense. you saw in the tape they didn't -- the undercover agents didn't leave this guy, he was explaining to them what he wanted to do why he wanted to do it the capability that he was seeking. i mean this is really a very clear crisp case that sort of thwarts the entrapment defense. but the longer they let it go and show both his intent and

capability to carry it out, the more solid the case is for prosecution. >> there is a lot of criticism of the fbi in cases, in past cases like this. i talked to chris cornell, the young man arrested allegedly with an idea of attacking the capitol as well his father was indicating to me in an interview that he believes maybe his son was led down a path he would not have otherwise taken by an informant, or by the fbi. >> and that's always the defense. anderson that's exactly why what you'll see are long-term investigations multiple meetings and as much as possible. you want to show that the intent is on the part of the individual not on the part of the undercover agent. and it's also why, ander son, these investigations involve prosecutors very early on so the undercover agents are getting legal advice from the prosecutor to make sure that they don't overstep or lead this person and by the way, all that evidence is reviewed by the prosecutor before charges are

brought. >> have they had much success, or does the idea that you know that a person was led down this road was set up essentially? how is this worked out in past cases? >> the fbi has been very successful because of the involvement of the prosecutors and lawyers very early on. and over time they've gotten more and more successful at ensuring that they build these cases slowly and deliberately. and frankly, what that means is ultimately it's the defendant that's driving the pace of the investigation. because they're the ones who have to talk about why they want to do what it is and what the capability is they need. what is their intent and how are they going to carry it out. it's got to be in their words, not in the agents' words. >> even if it's the fbi supplying them with a dummy cell phone, with a suicide vest with a weapon, as long as they have expressed their intent the fbi's had success in getting prosecutions? >> absolutely. and it's very important that these cases are very very hard

to put together without this sort of undercover work. >> fran townsend appreciate it. as always find out more on this story at cnn.com. in england, non-muslims cannot go and regular laws don't apply, the facts, we'll look at those. see how he explains himself. also later tonight, a crash course in survival from the survivor himself. there's a guy in there. that's his vehicle crushed between two other vehicles. he was able to walk out of there on his own. i'll talk to him ahead.

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keeping them honest. politicians, not to mention pundits, who don't let the facts get in the way of a good talking point, even though the talking point has been apologized for and backed away from by the very same people who got it going in the first place. bobby jindal spoke to a british think tank. he warned about muslim immigrants carving out enclaves in england where sharia law is

the rule and authorities simply do not go. it is startling to think any country for a no-go zone. if that phrase sounds familiar there's good reason why. take a look. >> one place non-muslims are reportedly not allowed to enter, no-go zones. >> we want to be self-ruled. we want to rule by sharia law, called no-go zones. >> that muslim populations that have taken over that police don't even go. >> so-called no-go zones. >> the no-go zones. >> no-go zone. >> no-go zones. >> no-go zones. >> no-go zones. >> i think they'll look hard and long throughout europe at no-go zones. >> we counted at least three dozen clips from fox news. it came to global attention when steve anderson appeared on fox. >> in britain, there are actual

cities like birmingham that are totally muslim where non-muslims simply don't go in. >> that came as news to prime minister david cameron. watch. >> what i heard, i thought it must be april fool's day. this guy is obviously a complete idiot. >> he's since apologized to the people of birmingham saying his comments about the city were totally in error. fox issued a pair of retractions saying there's no credible evidence that there are specific areas in these countries, meaning britain and france that exclude individuals based solely on their religion. it's about a governor possible presidential candidate, making assertions with these kind of statements without any facts to back them up. max foster was in london today to confront governor jindal about this story. here's how it went. >> look i've heard from folks here there are neighborhoods where women don't feel comfortable going in without veils. that's wrong. there are neighborhoods where police are less likely to go

into those neighborhoods. >> but you need the proper facts to back that up. >> i said so-called no-go zones. if they want to pretend like this problem is not here won't make it go away. >> but the no-go zone is also -- >> look there are people here in london saying there are neighborhoods the women don't feel safe walking through those neighborhoods without veil also. where police are less likely to go. that's a dangerous thing. >> you're making an assertion like that -- >> i think your viewers know the places they're less likely to go. they absolutely know their neighborhoods they wouldn't feel comfortable. >> that's high crime rates. it's not because there are too many muslims there. >> i know the left wants to make an attack on religion that's not what this is. what we're saying is it absolutely is an issue for the uk absolutely is an issue for america and other european and western nations.

>> max foster joins us now. even after you pressed him on this he continued to stand by the claim without actually giving any specific evidence saying -- at one point he said he met with elected officials and others about this. just to be clear, no-go zones in england in terms of areas the police do not go you're saying that just does not exist period. >> we were trying to get to the bottom of what he's talking about, really. he referred today to a british newspaper article in the daily mail he referred to the daily mail. he said it was today. he said in there there is an admission of no-go zones in london by the police chief. i've looked at the website. there's no story about that. the police chief is someone i know. he's not quoted in this paper. he's not quoted anywhere. i searched on the website and nothing comes up from him for at least the last week. so i'm not sure where hoe's pointing right now. he also couldn't name any of the

people he had spoken to so we couldn't weigh up how credible his sources were. what i can say is that i spoke to someone just last week very well placed in counterterror in london and he didn't talk in any way about no-go zones. certainly there are communities, and there are issues with people in communities, jihadist communities talking to each other. but it wasn't a geographic thing. it wasn't an area you can go into. and i've worked with the police before about areas where they are apprehensive about going into. certainly the police would never say they would never go into an area. those areas are mixed. they are just high crime areas, estates which are dangerous. it's nothing to do with muslim communities. so i'm still a bit baffled about where he is making his point from. >> cnn did air a report i think it was two years ago, about kind of a muslim patrol in one community in england, people kind of telling people you

know don't drink alcohol here. this is a muslim area. but you're saying even in a place like that, that doesn't make it a no-go zone where police don't go where others aren't allowed to go? >> no. and there hasn't been much of that since. there has been talk about a bit of that outside of london but certainly not in london. those have been very isolated cases. they haven't prevented other people from coming in. it's more focused on people who are living there, and part of the family communities. but even then it hasn't become an issue, and nonmuslims can't go into those areas. london is a diverse area all sorts of communities. that's what people love about london. there's nobody concern, i don't think, about going into a muslim area. >> max foster appreciate it. thanks very much. up next meet the man who walked away from a remarkable incredible crash. he was sandwiched between two semis in what was his pickup

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dozens of people were injured in this 26-vehicle pileup in oregon. 12 semis were involved. it's truly amazing considering what happened to kaleb whitby. this image, it's hard to kind of get a sense of what's going on there. that is him crushed in between two semis in what was left of his chevy silverado. he was hit by a second semi after running into a semi. he was able to walk away once he got free. he only needed two band-aids, ice for his minor injuries. kaleb is alive and well and joins me tonight. so kaleb, this picture is unbelievable. i know you were driving down a hill and a truck jackknifed in front of you. what happened then? >> i mean the first thing i did was kind of gasp. i aimed the pickup the best i could to a place where there

wasn't going to be any people which was going to be the trailer. so i aimed for the trailer. and somewhat did. and ended up hitting the corner of it head-on. and as soon as i hit it with my pickup it shut the pickup completely off and left it kind of sprawled out in the road. with the passenger side facing oncoming traffic. >> so you could see -- you're out of your passenger window you could see other vehicles coming toward you. >> i saw one vehicle. as soon as it stopped, and all the lights shut off, i saw one pair of lights and that was a semi coming at me. >> what is that like to see this semi truck coming right at you right after you've had this crash? >> it was one of those things where it's like oh my gosh is this actually going to happen. and it was from then on that i grabbed on to the wheel, turned my head back forward and closed my eyes and prayed. >> did you feel your vehicle essentially crumpling around you? >> yes. yes.

i mean it happened so fast. so i mean it was loud. and there was glass everywhere. and the next thing i knew i could just feel everything kind of tighten in around me. if you've looked at the pictures every single point on that pickup if you were to divide it kind of -- i mean the only corner that was not crushed or pushed forward was my spot. everything else was completely pushed forward and down and covered in glass and metal. >> and once they got you out, i understand you were actually able to walk away? >> yes. it took about 10 15 minutes for stuff to slow down. vehicles to shut off. and people to get out of them. and be able to walk around the accident. it was then that i was able to yell for help. and a group of truckers heard me. now, they kind of walked past at first glance because there might have been at the widest point four or five feet. so they didn't even think there would be a vehicle in there. they were able to shine their

flashlights in and see me. and they came running. they checked on me for a few minutes and made sure that i was okay. and that's actually when the picture was taken. one of the guys that took the picture, he made sure to ask if it was okay if he did. he kept saying you're never going to believe how it is. and how incredible it's going to be when you get out. >> how are you feeling now? it looks like one of your eyes like you have a blookack eye there. >> my left eye, it looks like i have eye shadow on. that's a couple of days with the bruising will. but i have a couple of scratches on my right hand, from the glass that was smashed down. other than that that's it. >> well it's just extraordinary -- thank goodness you were able to walk away from this. >> yes. >> kaleb, i appreciate you being with us. thank you. >> no, i thank you. >> incredibly lucky. other stories we're following tonight. hi there, anderson.

parades and memorials across the country honor the legacy of martin luther king jr. the slain civil rights leader would have turned 86 this year. in washington president obama along with the first lady and eldest daughter malia marked the day helping with projects at a boys and girls club. the president says americans who use this holiday to volunteer honor dr. king by heeding his call to serve. we have new details about pope francis' trip to the united states. he is attending the world meeting of families in philadelphia in september. today he told reporters he will also visit new york and washington. the trip will be the popular pontiff's first to the united states as pope. and a new england patriots are headed to the super bowl. but not without controversy. it is being dubbed ball gate. looking into whether the patriots deflated the footballs used in yesterday's emphatic 45-7 win over the indianapolis colts. so there you have it. controversy once again

surrounding the patriots. >> yeah. thanks very much. new developments in a story i did for 60 minutes back in 2012. i interviewed a north korean man who described what it was like to grow up in a north korean prison camp. since the story first aired, questions have been raised about the truthfulness of some of his accounts accounts. this month there was a book about his experiences, saying chin had changed key parts of his story, including the timing and circumstances of the time in prison his torture as well as his eventual escape. our attempts to reach mr. chin so far have been successful. gary tuchman went to get answers on a story about children dying. >> you are not welcome.

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alka-seltzer plus cold and cough fights your worst cold symptoms plus your runny nose. oh, what a relief it is. (prof. burke) the more you learn about your insurance the more gaps you may find. like how you thought you were covered for this... (pirate) ahh, haha! (prof. burke) ...when you're really only covered for this. (pirate boy) ahhh, haha! (prof.burke)talk to farmers and get smarter about your insurance. ♪ we are farmers bum-pa-dum bum-bum-bum-bum ♪♪ there are many people in the united states who pray when a child is sick. some faith healing parents believe their devotion to god is the only acceptable treatment for illness, even if it means letting their child die. the followers of christ are moving to idaho because under state law parents who choose not to take their children to the doctor are not charged even if death could have been prevented with basic medication or treatment. gary tuchman traveled to idaho to talk about the alarming rate

of child deaths in this sect. >> reporter: inside this idaho church are reclusive members of a christian sect who don't believe in medical treatment from doctors. even when one of their own children is near death. and they don't particularly like questions from reporters. >> good-bye. >> we're just trying to let our viewers know why doctors can't be used for your children. >> good-bye. >> reporter: this is the veteran coroner in idaho. he has done autopsies on children who are part of that sect. the followers of christ church. which has an estimated 1,500 members. mostly in idaho and oregon. >> do you believe that many of the children you've done autopsies on would be alive if their parents took them to the doctor? >> oh yes. without a doubt. that's not even a question. >> reporter: and this is where some of those children have been laid to rest. the peaceful valley cemetery in rural southwestern idaho. a cemetery that belongs to the church. the sense of despair when you walk through here cannot be

overstated. this is a relatively small cemetery so it's obvious the high percentage of grave sites that are the final resting places of children. there are adolescents buried here toddlers babies and infants who died the day they were born. it's not known how many would have lived with the proper medical care. but people who have left the churn tell cnn that roughly 200 of the 600 people buried here are children. one of those former members said this is the church's philosophy. >> everything that happens to you in your life is god's will. it's pre-destined for you. and you either have faith in god to be strong and survive it and that he will take care of you, or your faith fails you and you do not. >> reporter: at this point in the story, you might ask yourself can this sect knowingly refuse medical care to dying children and get away with it? the answer is yes. idaho allows religious exemptions for negligent homicide manslaughter or

capital murder one of six states with similar laws. but of those states idaho is the only one where such deaths openly occur. bills have been drafted in the idaho legislature to change the law. but there has never been enough support to get legislation to a vote. >> bottom line do you believe certain legislators, because of politics are willing to let children die? >> yes. i mean i think that's obvious, just by you know -- i guess the bill last year never even made it to committee. >> reporter: we wanted to ask idaho legislators why they're willing to accept this. many refused to talk to me about it. one of the house republican leaders agreed to go on camera saying he realizes something needs to be done. but the politics in the deeply religious state are challenging. >> there's no sense in my opinion of running a bill that doesn't have a chance of getting through. >> reporter: but you want to see some sort of compromise? >> i would see something that

also helps protect the child. >> reporter: does it trouble you that children are dying in the state because of this law? >> it does. we do everything we can to try to protect the unborn once they're born we should also still try to protect them. >> you're still not willing to say we should get rid of this religious exemption entirely? >> that's correct. we also have to protect religious freedoms. >> reporter: you were sick hurt no doctors were called. >> yes. >> reporter: wayne left the church when he was a teenager. he said this isn't an issue of religious freedom. >> i think it's 100% neglect and abuse. i think it's sick and i think it's sadistic. >> reporter: brian said he was beaten with objects when he disobeyed. he broke bones, got sick and never saw a doctor or got antibiotics or any medicine. then there was the time in 6th grade when his mother gave birth to a baby brother without a doctor. >> my own mother the baby was hung by the umbilical cord during birth.

>> reporter: what happened? >> i got to hold it while it was still blue and semi-warm. and tell him good-bye. >> reporter: another case this is the coroner report in canyon county idaho, for a 14-year-old boy who died without medical care. the parents stated that he had been coughing and running a low-grade temperature for about two weeks. as time went on he began having more shortness of breath and the rattle in his chest got worse. the mother was holding him on her lap when he died. the boy's father did not want to talk to me. i just want to -- >> no. you are not welcome. >> reporter: the followers of christ have church services twice a week. we visited after a nighttime service. i want to introduce myself -- >> bye. bye. >> reporter: i'm gary tuchman with cnn, i just want to ask you about some of the policies in the church. >> good-bye. >> reporter: can you -- >> good-bye. >> reporter: one church member though did give us a brief answer about why no doctors.

>> we believe in putting our faith in god. >> reporter: steven paul hughes died when he was 2 of pneumonia. jerry lane gardner died when he was 11 from diabetes. so many other children from this faith, dead. so many outsiders, aghast. >> they don't have a choice. they're under their parents' care. >> reporter: look at this tombstone in this followers of christ cemetery with words disconcerting to many outside of the faith. sweet on sweet neil and take thy rest god guided you home he thought it best. >> gary i understand the idaho legislature is currently in session. is there any new bill to deal with the situation? >> like the session began last week that lasts for two months. there's absolutely no bill no draft of any kind. it's very clear, anderson that most of them would not talk to me who i reached out to. they want to stay as far away

from this as possible. the fact is these children have absolutely no say. they get sore throats, they get fevers they get stomachaches, they get stuff that could be cured easily with medicine. they don't get the medicine. they then suffer they linger and they die. while parents often think this is god's will at its core this is inhumane. >> gary appreciate the reporting. ridiculous. ♪ ♪ you're only young once. unless you have a subaru. (announcer) the subaru xv crosstrek. symmetrical all-wheel drive plus 34 mpg. love. it's what makes a subaru a subaru. nobody told us to expect it... intercourse that's painful due to menopausal changes it's not likely to go away on its own.

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time for the ridiculous. tonight i'd like to address something referred to as the gay agenda. i've never actually been to the secret meeting where the gays plot their agenda although i imagine the catering is quite amazing. but thanks to a man named larry, who says there's an avalanche sweeping across our country today, a tsunami. in an op-ed for the christian post he writes the indoctrination advocating a gay lifestyle in our country, classrooms and cutlture are increasing. we need to take action to guard those we love. you can tell larry's being serious, because the bs are capitalized. i don't know what a gay lifestyle is just like i don't know what a straight lifestyle is. seems like all the gay people i know just like the straight people i know live all kind of different lives. i know gay police officers

doctors, marines, and a couple of gay tv news anchors, believe it or not. most i know want to live their lives with the rights and responsibilities as everyone else. larry said indecent behavior is conveyed to unsuspecting children and that both "dancing with the stars" and survivor have had gay contestants and ellen degeneres celebrates her marriage yes, by the way, he puts marriage in quotation marks. ellen talked about other examples on her show recently. >> in the article the pastor criticizes a lot of tv shows for promoting gay agendas. "glee" has over five characters. modern family had a gay wedding. larry is watching a lot of gay tv. >> that's right. i'm in there as well. me and my constant boasting. larry has a solution for avoiding this gay problem. he recommends parents turn off the tv and turn on the dvd player so their kids can watch wholesome shows like "i love lucy" and "leave it to beaver."

i agree with larry, i grew up watching "i love lucy" and i'm as straight as they come. as for the beav it never sparked my interest for some reason. those are the good old days when people could be arrested for going to the bar, fired from their jobs and still can in many states and live life largely in the shadows. good times. men are naturally attracted to other men, but decide to marry women anyway called my husband's not gay. some couples were explaining their reasonable decisions. >> every time i got to the core of who i am i knew that i wanted to be married to a woman. and i knew that i wanted children. and i wanted to be a father. and i want to be called daddy when i come home. >> for the record there are plenty of gay people having kids these days. if you're a gay guy who wants to be called daddy, you don't necessarily have to marry a women. i feel certainly for anybody

who's not happy with who they are. the guys on this show insist they have regular marriages and do regular guy things like go shopping together. >> you see that guy over there? >> mm-hmm. >> what do you think? >> he's a good looking guy for sure. >> he's okay. i kind of like guys that are a little more athletic. >> is it your type? >> yeah i think he's a great looking guy. i like the swimmer's build. >> what kind of guy are you into? >> usually taller. like ryan reynolds. >> with you there. >> who isn't. >> just like a bunch of straight married guys going out shopping together. they also insist they can have attraction toward their wives even though they're inclined to be attracted to men. >> you could say i'm oriented toward doughnuts. and if i was being true to myself i would eat doughnuts a lot more than i eat doughnuts. but am i miserable? am i lonely? am i denying myself because i don't eat doughnuts as much as i might like to eat doughnuts?

i'm not. >> yeah. not gay. who's the doughnut in that analogy, by the way? i think he needs to throw something else in there, perhaps a bear claw. gay people are more visible today. even though it makes larry uncomfortable, spends a lot of time watching and thinking about gay people i don't know turning back the clock or tv dial is the solution. look, larry, when you're up late at night thinking about what gay people are doing, you can always find a good re-run to watch. see you 11:00 p.m. for another edition of "ac 360." the following is a special report. -- captions by vitac -- www.vitac.com

terror in the streets of paris. police officers gunned down in cold blood. journalists murdered. jews cartargeted. hostages desperate and afraid. the attacks kept coming as the authorities launched an international dragnet for accomplices potentially plotting another deadly rampage. we take you inside the investigation. did an american-born jihadi mastermind the plot from beyond the grave? a "cnn special report," inside the paris attacks. >> good evening. i'm jake tapper. i am charlie, became the words a rallying cry for a nation and the world in the aftermath of those deadly terrorist attacks at the offices of "charlie hebdo," the satirical magazine targeted for publishing cartoons from the muslim prophet, muhammad. those bloody murders were

followed, of course by more bloodshed. 17 innocents, total, killed during those three days of pure terror that gripped france and sent europe into a frenzied search to stop these, and any other terrorist sleeper cells possibly plotting attacks of their own. could paris have been just the beginning of what's to come? tonight we'll take you inside the attacks, and the investigation into what drove these men to such brutal extremes. and who helped them do it. the first attack is stunning in its deadly precision. two masked gunmen stormed the paris office of the satirical magazine "charlie hebdo." >> we heard shots. we heard screams. >> reporter: martin who works in the building escapes to the roof and captures the gunmen on camera. they have already killed a security guard, and pushed their way into the offices of "charlie hebdo."

>> we didn't even know what we were supposed to do. we were stuck on this roof. we knew there were victims. a few millimeters away from us. maybe a third guy. they were yelling. >> reporter: it's 11:30 a.m. and inside the staffers of "charlie hebdo" are having their editorial meeting, led by steffan, the magazine's editor better known to most frenchman as char. he's also well-known to the attackers. his face appeared on this most-wanted poster popular among extremists after he published cartoons of the muslim prophet, muhammad. the terrorists killed their victims one by one. calling out their names. they then retreat to the streets shouting, god is great. they claim victory for avenging

the prophet. >> it was like a slaughter. it was like a massacre. >> reporter: he makes his way into the office finding few survivors in this blood bath. >> i saw the bodies on the left into the meeting room. and the other people from "charlie hebdo" who were hiding. they were standing like zombies didn't do anything. we tried to help the first woman. but actually to be honest there were just people dead around. >> reporter: in their black bulletproof vests, the terrorists flee pausing to reload. for a moment it seems their escape might be blocked by a lone police car. but they open fire. and outgunned, the police car retreats. the black getaway car peels off, but stops again next to ahmed

maraby the muslim police officer wounded in the melee. one of the terrorists runs towards him. don't come any closer maraby pleads just before the terrorist shoots him in the head. the manhunt begins. the terrorists abandon their getaway car and hijack another one to evade police. but they leave behind a crucial clue. an identification card. by nightfall, french police issue a wanted poster for the brothers of algerian descent, raised in france. at least one is a known terrorists, having been in jail for trying to recruit jihadis to fight in iraq. the kouachis are now heavily armed, dangerous and on the loose in paris. and the terror is just beginning. late that night in a paris suburbs, a jogger shot and wounded. the next morning with the city

already on edge another shooting a rookie cop barely two weeks on the job. he's killed in cold blood while attending to a car crash in the montrouge section of paris. a street cleaner confronts the shooters, only to have the gun turned on him. the shooter escapes and the police at first say there's no connection between the shooting of the officer and the massacre at "charlie hebdo." but they would be wrong. just hours later, the kouachi brothers strike again, storming into this gas station, an hour north of paris, armed with rifles and grenades. they steal food and supplies. but no one is hurt. amazingly, they evade capture. police are now scouring the french countryside, searching the woods for the two men. >> this area is very rural. you can probably see there's quite a bit of open field, a farmhouse behind me. there is also a very heavily forested area in that direction. and that may be where police are

searching for the two suspects. >> reporter: dawn breaks with no sign of the terrorists. but soon this day's deadly events begin to unfold. the kouachi brothers reappear now at a printing company near charles de gaulle airport. and the siege is soon under way. helicopters circle overhead as the schools in the town are told to lock their students inside. the airport partially shuts down. it is chaos. there's an employee hiding inside the printing company, secretly texting police about the movements of the brothers as the authorities surround the building. and then a shocking turn. gunfire erupts at a kosher grocery store much closer to "charlie hebdo." police swarm the area as reports emerge of multiple hostages inside. but if the kouachi brothers are barricaded in the printing office miles away who is orchestrating the attack on the

supermarket? the dots suddenly connect. french media are now reporting that the man inside the grocery is the same person wanted for killing the police officer the day before. you know who i am he tells police. he is amedy coulibaly, a 32-year-old with a terrorist connection to cherif kouachi. he is wanted along with his girlfriend. inside the kosher grocery store, some hostages huddle together inside a freezer. one woman clutching her baby close, trying to keep her alive amidst the cold. cowl coulibaly shoots four of the hostages and proudly calls french tv. yes, we synchronized the operation, he said of his coordination with the kouachi brothers. they began with "charlie hebdo,"

and i began with the police. astoundingly the same french tv channel also reaches the kouachi brothers inside the other hostage crisis. cherif kouachi picks up the phone inside the printing company and confesses to the "charlie hebdo" murders, using his twisted logic. we are defenders of the prophet, he says if someone offends the prophet, then there is no problem, we can kill him. just after 4:00 p.m. french authorities launch coordinated attacks at both sites. snipers perch on the roof of the printing building. suddenly the kouachi brothers charge out of the building guns blazing, but they are cut down by police bullets. their murderous rampage dramatically ended. and at the kosher market -- >> in the last 30 seconds, we heard four possibly five large explosion also. this is just over my right shoulder here. >> reporter: officers storm the grocery store as coulibaly runs

toward his death into the bullets. >> now i'm hearing gunfire. >> reporter: and then his hostages flee. the terror of the past three days in france appears to be over. but authorities worry, could there be another wave of attacks in store, as sleeper cells across europe awaken. the race to find the real market masterminds before it's too late. that, when we come back.

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[ male announcer ] it's a warning. a wake-up call. but it's not happening out there. it's happening in here. [ sirens wailing ] inside of you. even if you're treating your crohn's disease or ulcerative colitis, an occasional flare may be a sign of damaging inflammation. learn more about the role damaging inflammation may be playing in your symptoms with the expert advice tool at crohnsandcolitis.com. and then speak with your gastroenterologist. i'm jake tapper. welcome back to a "cnn special report," inside the paris attacks. the three days of chaos, hostage taking and murder in france left 17 innocent people dead, and 11 more wounded. now, we know that the terrorists were motivated by the ideology of radical islam.

but how specifically did their ideology turn to action? under whose orders? or instructions did the terrorists launch their deadly plans? police in western intelligence are urgently seeking answers as they try to shut down any other jihadi networks that may have more bloodshed in store. at first blush, they looked like any young couple in this love. but after hayat boumeddiene and amedy coulibaly found radical islam, that bikini was replaced by a burka, and soon their romance turned lethal. it ended in a hail of bullets. the deadly week-long reign of terror that rocked paris, and rallied the world. boumeddiene met coulibaly when she was working as a cashier. he had been in and out of prison since he was 17 for armed

robbery and drug offenses. both of them were raised in moderate muslim homes. one of coulibaly's nine sisters even teaches a dance class called booty therapy. she and the rest of his family have condemned his actions. but as they drifted away from their families their religious devotion intensified. boumeddiene began to wear the veil and said she wanted to move to an arab country to be around other strict muslims. the seeds of terror were being planted in her boyfriend's brain. he was cad talized during his time in this french prison. his mentor? this man, jamal baggal a nigerian serving ten years for plotting to blow up the u.s. embassy in europe. >> he really links pre-9/11 terrorism with post-9/11 terrorism. he is an al qaeda operative and recruiter. he was able to recruit and

indoctrinate a lot of young men in the prison system. >> it is here where baggal introduces cowly baly to another of his prison broughtproteges. it is the beginning of the deadly friendship. >> bring in a man like baggal who has street creds because he's been to afghanistan, he's met with al qaeda figures, and all of a sudden he's able to infiltrate really their thinking with an ideology that turns deadly in the end. >> in 2009 begal was released from prison and put under house arrest. what they see looks menacing. cherif kouachi and coulibaly bringing supplies food money, often in tow, boumeddiene, who told police that the photos taken in one of those visits were merely evidence of cross-bo

practice. together the men hatch a plan to spring another terrorist from prison. a failed attempt lands them back in jail. with boumeddiene waiting at home patiently for her man. kouachi avoided jail but made his way further down that path to radical islam. enwar al awlaki inspired him. he would go on to become a seminal figure in al qaeda was born in new mexico and went to college in colorado. but he reportedly spent a summer vacation training with the afghan mujahadin. >> it was an opening. >> awlaki's perfect english made him a popular figure among western jihadis. he's inspired so many terrorists he's often been called the bin laden of the

internet. awlaki's message reached the cow kouachi brothers loud and clear. as the terror in paris unfolded cherif kouachi told french television he had met in person with awlaki. >> i was sent me cherif kouachi, to al qaeda in yemen. anwar al awlaki financed my trip. >> as of now their exact travel history is unclear. but officials believe both brothers visited yemen in the summer of 2011, just before awlaki was killed by a u.s. drone. >> we know from one official here that said first came in august 2009. and went in and out two or three times. and potentially it was cherif who used his passport in 2011 to make his journey here. and some say carried back with him tens of thousands of dollars to france to perhaps fund the operations you saw. >> either would have been a value asset.

a jihadi with a european passport. former al qaeda double agent morton storm says that was exactly what awlaki was after. >> he asked me specifically to recruit brothers from europe who had clean passports, and send them to yemen so they can receive the training and then return back again to the european countries. and become sleeping cells. that's exactly what happened in france. it's what he wanted to do. >> now the question for investigators is if that deadly plan for paris was launched by awlaki himself. could the now dead terrorist mastermind have set the course for an attack that would be carried out more than three years after his own death. or was it much more in-depth and up to the minute. did they continue to get resources from yemen until the moment which they launched those attacks. because if there is still a network between yemen and europe there could be other cells assisting, and that's something they want to try and certainly prevent.

>> by 2014 both kouachi brothers were back in france. cherif using his wife as cover to keep up his connection to his old prison pal. although coulibaly remained in jail boumeddiene was back in action exchanging more than 500 phone calls with cherif's wife, according to the paris prosecutor. was their deadly plan already under way? and what role did boumeddiene play in the plot in paris? the race against the clock to stop another attack, when we come back.

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i'm jake tapper. welcome back to a "cnn special report," inside the paris attacks. the aftershocks of the murderous terrorists' rampage in paris are still being felt as authorities in the united states and europe work overtime to try to stop another possible attack. did the events in paris awaken a network of sleeper cells, now preparing to execute their deadly missions?

and is the one french accomplice who is on the run, is she the only one who knows what could be coming next? she is the most wanted woman in the world. hayat boumeddiene, girlfriend of amedy cowl balulibalycoulibaly. french authorities say boumeddiene may be an accomplice to his crimes and she is on the lam. >> she becomes almost more dangerous and more lethal because while people are looking for her, she's so non-descript that she could easily blend in. and imagine the impact if she is able to carry out a subsequent attack knowing full well that all of western intelligence is looking for her. >> here she is at the turkish airport just days before the terrorist attacks. the man standing next to her is another french citizen who police are investigating. they believe he helped her cross the border into syria.

a hotbed of radical islam, where she is now likely hiding out. but who is she working for? her boyfriend pledged allegiance to isis in iraq and syria, but he also said he was working hand in hand with the kouachi brothers. and that terrorist organization aqap claimed responsibility for the brothers' bloody attack on the "charlie hebdo" office. in this official video, aqap spokesman said they planned and financed the operation. western officials tell cnn it's still murky who was actually calling the shots. >> on that particular day it was the fact that these radicals have known each other in their past that led them to the site of the attack at similar times, or in this case perhaps coulibaly coming to the aid of the kouachi brothers. in truth, we may never know. >> what is clear, the attacks in paris launched an international

hunt for any terrorist who could be lying in wait. just days after the nightmare in paris, a dramatic raid on a terrorist cell in belgium, captured on this amateur video. a witness describes the scene as belgian police storm in. >> i saw just a big orange flash, whoosh a lot of smoke, and another big, big, big detonation. >> two gunmen opened fire on police as they close in. a last-minute intervention to stop what authorities say was an imminent plot by terrorists linked to isis. >> this operation was meant to dismantle a terrorist cell not only the terrorist cell but also the logistics network behind it. this investigation for the time being has shown that these people have the intention to kill several policemen in the street. >> belgian police killed two, and captured one just before they intend to launch their

murderous attack police say. 17 others are arrested in a series of raids across belgium. among the guns and grenades discovered in the raid cops also find police uniforms raising the specter that the terrorists hope to pose as the very men they sought to kill. >> they were planning attacks all over belgium. >> one official tells a belgian newspaper that the country narrowly averted its own "charlie hebdo" attack. >> it's likely other attacks are going to happen as well. set almost as triggers. that's not something the belgian authorities wanted to risk. >> but a western official warns cnn, sleeper cells have awoken and there are now more than 100 jihadis ready to strike in belgium, france germany and the netherlands. europe is on edge. and an internet dragnet is under way to stop the next attack before it happens. police and intelligence rounding up suspects across the continent.

an 18-year-old girl arrested at a london airport on terrorism charges. two men in berlin for conspiring with isis. nine people in paris held in connection to coulibaly's attack on the kosher grocery store. this weekend an algerian man arrested in greece believed to be connected to the terrorist cell in belgium. experts say the pipeline of terror from parts of syria to europe is powerful and growing. >> the key problem now, the western countries accept there are thousands of them fighting in syria, learning these skills. increaseingly radicalized. what do you do when they return. >> it's a question being asked across europe and around the world, as intelligence agencies race against time and the threat of another attack. we of course will continue to track every update on this fast-moving story. so stay tuned to cnn for all the latest developments. up next another "cnn special

report," the war within islam. my colleagues chris cuomo and alex are digging deeper into the roots of radical islam. what's really in the koran? expert analysis and conversation, and that report starts right now. >> announcer: the following is a "cnn special report." terror sleeper cells activated. >> this is what we've been fearing for years now. >> we're entering a more threatening and more dangerous period in this war on terror. >> al qaeda in yemen. >> isis with more attacks. >> this is not the faith that we follow. >> there's a war in europe taking place. >> there is a radical ideology out there. the two main ingredients when we're dealing with this particular threat. >> conquest in the name of islam. >> nothing you do is based on --

it's not connected. >> islamism would not exist without islam. >> good evening to you. i'm chris cuomo, along with alison. we take a look at the war within islam. the attacks in paris takes 17 lives and energizes the debate about what the role islam plays in terrorism and the solution. >> 1.6 billion people around the world practice islam today. many tell you it's a peaceful religion. but still questions persist whether there is something inherent in islam that lends itself to extremism. tonight we explore the big questions about the conflict within the religion. >> let's start here. the problem has been seen too often. we see it in the terrorism that is all around the world. the solution is what's the mystery. how do we stop the violence. and who is "we"? is it the west the u.s.?

what about muslims as a group, are they doing enough to denounce the acts of terror? should they have to. let's talk to those who have a good take on these questions. we have a foreign policy analyst, and columnist for "the daily beast." and a former islamic extremist, and chairman of the counterterrorism think tank quillyam foundation. when we talk about stopping this all right, other than the obvious, which is well you have to make less violence that doesn't make any sense. where do we start? where are the big points? >> for me the big point is going to the source. and the source for me is the country that is spreading more extremism than any other country. the country that is saudi arabia. it starts there. for me that's the first isis state. they're sponsoring more extremism than any other country in the world. they are the country that gave us al qaeda, bin laden is a saudi. 15 of the 19 hijackers are

saudis. if you look at what isis is doing, what they are inspired by how many beheadings in saudi arabia versus how many beheadings by isis? the number of soudaudi arabian beheadings. saudi text books, this is the kind of exclusionary violent kind of islam that they are promoting. but the united states is not standing up to them. actually it's time to confront saudi arabia to ask them for a political reform, religionus reform and financing and exporting extremism. >> let's talk about the individual picture. that's the big picture. you were radicalized, at the age of 16. you later came to your senses years later in prison. but when you were 16 what could society, or anyone have done to

keep you from becoming radical? >> i just want to begin by thanking houla for raising the case. right now as we speak, a man is being flogged in public. he was sentenced to 1,000 lashes simply for running a blog. and we were rightly so very much concerned about "charlie hebdo" in paris. as we speak, one of the west's strongest allies is publicly flogging people. so i want to endorse what she said. radicalization in my case and many other cases, we study this on a daily basis through our work it's our profession it usually comes down to a combination of four factors. a sense of grievance, identity crisis charismatic recruiters who give a sense of belonging, and the role that ideology plays. not just peddled by governments in the past but also by islamist organizations working on the grass roots level across the world in pakistan in egypt. so this problem i want to add

and emphasize isn't just constrained, or restricted to saudi arabia. >> what got you past it? >> well that's obviously the subject of an autobiography. i don't want to hog the show. >> just as a concept, so we can get a familiar concept for people what breaks the cycle? >> so i think that -- i often say where the heart leads, the mind can follow. i stood up for my human rights and dignity. what i would argue instead of more law and more war, as a government response to the islamist ideology that's embedded within our elements of our communities, what we really need to be doing is protecting our human dignity and human rights and working to build civil society resilience. but that does require more muslim communities to be -- to stand side by side along with everyone else to be more vocal against this ideology. >> that's exactly what you say. you say we all need to support moderate muslim leaders. how would that help? >> mainstream muslim leaders is

mainstream versus terrorist or extremists frankly. it's supporting them financially within the united states perhaps, so they can go out and reach out to people in the community, empowering them so they know what to look for. if someone has left the community, they're gone maybe they can be radicalized on the computer. it's about funding and recruits. >> two of the four factors have nothing to do with the united states. you want to talk about saudi arabia and you should. however, there are states all over the region. now expanding all the time that oppress their people that don't give them a sense of hope. that does as much to see extremism as anything. it has nothing to do with the u.s. >> they didn't put $100 billion to fight that kind -- which saudi arabia did in the last 30 years from 1979 the moment of the mujahadin. >> that's the biggest thing about the united states our dna being a melting pot. that's just it. there's money come inging in to the

extremists. we have to get our allies to clam will down on that. so they don't have the money to recruit. >> thanks so much for all your suggestions and having this conversation with us tonight. thanks to you. >> thank you. what should we call these terrorists? islamic extremists? violent jihadis? we'll explore why the names matter. otally blind. and sometimes i struggle to sleep at night, and stay awake during the day. this is called non-24, a circadian rhythm disorder that affects up to 70 percent of people who are totally blind. talk to your doctor about your symptoms and learn more by calling 844-824-2424. or visit your24info.com. don't let non-24 get in the way of your pursuit of happiness.

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we will only win the fight against violent extremism in the middle east -- >> we've been in this struggle against extremist -- >> this is a war that the islamic extremists are posing against the united states. >> radical violent jihadists in their various forms. >> messages coming out from these fanatics. >> now, president obama stopped short of using the words islam, or muslim in his condemnation of the terror attacks in paris. instead he used quote, violent extremism, and fanatics. why does it matter what we call this type of terrorism? let's bring in journalist ahmed

eldon and manager for reports bobby gauche bobby, what is the right word this strain of terrorism? >> i think calling it islamic extremism is fine. i think the train has left the station on how we describe it. within the muslim world, too, there are different opinions about how this should be called. many people if not most call them mujahadin, which is holy warrior. there is an acceptance that these people are claiming to fight in the name of god. even though the majority of the community rejects that. >> when you say mujahadin, isn't that like the fruit of islam? in terms of what calls them that is that the right thing to call them because words matter. you don't want to glorify them. >> words matter that's exactly the point. we do not want to glorify them. we've seen moderate muslims, if you will to use another controversial term condemn them. so i think this is an admission in some ways on the white house's part that this perpetual

clash that has been defined as this notion of us versus them trying to basically de-legitimize their warped view of islam. people say they do not speak for islam, so i think it's important that the white house is taking this step. even if it seems a little bizarre. you'll remember at the beginning of his presidency the obama administration got rid of the bush term war on terror. for too long it's been framed in a way that it plays into the hands of the terrorists. it makes it seem to a certain extent to perhaps alienate youth around the country. >> must we say islamists? that's who they say they are. >> i think it's fine to call them islamists, as long as we add the caveat that they don't speak for the whole of faith.

it has served us well so far. this business of not using the word war, who are we kidding? they think it's a war. and our not using that word is not going to change how they feel about us. >> bobby, i agree with you, and i understand to a certain extent you think perhaps we can continue to use the terms islamist or war. at the same time this is also a war on islam. this is a lot of muslims feeling as though not only are the muslims the biggest victims, in syria every day, and in iraq and yemen the same day this happened we saw people killed outside a police station, so i think a lot of muslims feel as though to call them muslims, even though they self-identify as that is problematic. it plays into this notion that this is strictly a war between the west and -- >> here's the problem that we're seeing now. that's a macro issue. the term of the fight for their own faith. but when you ignore islam, when

you ignore that they say they're islam, it feeds the phobia of muslims in this country. because they say -- >> if you can't use the word. >> -- why won't they say it. they're hiding from the fact they're muslim. >> politically i understand that, but in the same vein wouldn't you also agree that by using the term islam and using the term islamist it -- it's kind of like -- >> okay. it's important because in the media we need to know what to call this. should we say jihadists? >> you're damned if you do and damned if you don't. the way these people use it it's common place to use it in that way, is very -- i think if we tie ourselves up in parsing the language we're missing the bigger point which is that we have this vast faith that is being, as you said being attacked by its own, by these people who are committing

incredibly horrific acts against fellow muslims, and there needs to be a way to deal with the problem. and i don't think terminology is necessarily -- it will solve it one way or the other. >> we're trying to get it right. what i hear is islamists, jihadists, that might be the best we can do right now. >> what i'm hearing is it's not about the vocabulary but it's about the message we send. that's why we care. it's not about getting it right, oh they don't want to be called this. it doesn't matter what they want. it's what indicative language we suggest to the group we're talking about. >> and not malign a group. now, islamists, extremists whatever you want to say, those people who are worried about hurting others often quote islam's holy book to defend their acts of bloodshed. and many point to the book to say that islam is inherently violent. what is really in the book of

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he says it three times. the question is why did he say that and what it means. >> terrorists claim that they carry out their violence in the name of islam. so are their actions supported by the sacred scripture, the koran? let's bring in some expert guests. we'll ask both of your thoughts on what's in the koran. starting with the video, so the terrorists claim they were avenging the prophet muhammad because he had been blas feemed by the cartoons. is blasphemy in the koran? >> there is no reference in the koran which prohibits muslims from drawing a cartoon or image of the prophet. this ruling came from the prophet himself, who was concerned about people idolizing him or worshipping idols. he was surrounded by idol worshippers, so he told people do not make any images of

anything. and it's similar to what's in the ten commandments which says do not create engrave images. so the ruling came from that and the scholars extended it to saying we should prohibit all images of prophets or god. >> but it didn't start in the koran? >> it did not start in the koran. it is a prophetic saying. >> and is it taught that you're supposed to kill people who do it? >> no. the koran says that if somebody mocks your religion you should either walk away from them or dialogue with them. >> doctor this is what you deal with as a politician. you have a diverse community where you are. >> yes. >> you have teem saypeople saying i don't mean any disrespect but your faith is all about violence and they reference these types of per versions or the book itself. >> it's important to know about the context.

every time there's a context of the conversation you have to look at what is the context, why are we talking about that specific thing. if you look at the koran, 114 times it's mentioned in the koran that god is the most gracious and merciful. so when i want to tell my children about something, i repeat it 114 times in the koran, god is the most gracious most merciful. and that's the understanding of the whole concept. with respect to the prophet in the koran, it says that he is supposed to be loved more than ourselves, our family and our children. and like all other prophets. so there's a love and respect and that can cause emotions. but if god forbid somebody used those in a negative way to hurt the others there's no room for hurting other fellow human beings. you cannot hurt an innocent idea because that's like killing mankind. >> and yet the terrorists have bastardized it say they the

killing of non-believers is justified and they use this passage. slay the idol ters wherever you find them arrest them besiege them and lie in ambush everywhere for them. >> nothing justifies killing. islam is a religion of law and there's due process. >> but it's a literal interpretation. >> but it's also contextual so it may have happened in a specific incident where the prophet was being attacked so he was given permission to fight those people. however, there are rules of engaging people in combat. you do not kill non-combatants you do not commit rape you do not terrorize people and you actually declare war, you do not do clandestine operations. so they're breaking all the rules of warfare. and so even though the koran gives permission for self-defense and fighting your enemies, it does not say that

you have to take matters into your own hands. and surely you have to follow the rulings that the scholars have established for the last 1,400 years. imagine if we didn't have these rulings, we would have had mayhem all these years. >> so interesting to hear what the koran really says and means rather than what the terrorists claim it does. >> can i just add one thing? >> yeah. >> if we look at the life of the prophet, when the times were challenging for the muslims, he asked them to immigrate to a christian country, a country where there was a christian king and said the people will take care of you. in the same way when he went to medina there were jewish tribes. he said in the constitution that was laid out that the rights of the muslims and the jews in that area are going to be the same. >> thanks so much for coming and sharing with us. >> when we come back we'll have some closing thoughts on the war within islam. ♪

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we took one small step tonight, trying to explore the complicated issues concerning the war within islam. ultimately there's no simple answer to preventing the threat of islamist extremism. >> this conversation all of here and on "new day" in the morning is only as good as it's helpful to you.

tell us what you still want to know. go to facebook.com/cnn. thanks for watching. cnn tonight with don lemon starts right now. this is cnn breaking news. >> breaking news a manhunt is on for the suspected ring leader of the isis terror plot in belgium. this is cnn tonight, i'm don lemon. in belgium to france to greece europeans mobilizing to stop the terrorists. in belgium, five suspects are charged, two others captured trying to cross from france to italy. while greek police arrest one suspect and hunt for more. but how many are still at large? what are they plotting? are we prepared on the home front? we'll talk with one of new york city's top cops who was one of the last people to interview os