helpful to you. tell us what you still want to know. go to facebook.com/cnn. thanks for watching. cnn tonight with don lemon starts right now. this is cnn breaking news. >> breaking news a manhunt is on for the suspected ring leader of the isis terror plot in belgium. this is cnn tonight, i'm don lemon. in belgium to france to greece europeans mobilizing to stop the terrorists. in belgium, five suspects are charged, two others captured trying to cross from france to italy. while greek police arrest one suspect and hunt for more. but how many are still at large? what are they plotting? are we prepared on the home front? we'll talk with one of new york city's top cops who was one of the last people to interview osama bin laden.

plus american sniper hits the bull's eye, but is it rewriting history? is it propaganda? and 50 years after dr. martin luther king what would he think of "selma"? but first, live to brussels. there's breaking news of a new suspect in the belgian plot. what can you tell us? >> so don, a senior counterterrorism official has told cnn some key details and one of them is that the authorities here are acting on the belief that the terror plot which they disrupted last thursday with raids across the country on a plot that was supposedly targeting police officers here. they believed that was being directed by a man based in greece and that man has direct ties to isis in syria and iraq. the man they suspect, the man they are looking for and have not yet found is abdul hamid

aboud. a belgian moroccan isis fighter who used to live here in brussels. they believe he was in direct phone contact with a number of men in this direct cell including two men who were killed by police during a raid last thursday in a firefight there. they think those two men also had fought for isis in syria. now, all of this is significant because it is a theory which suggests isis has tried to strike out from its territory in syria, in iraq into the heart of western europe. up until now, isis has been very much concerned with expanding the territory it controls to build its so-called islamic state. it's not been concerned with striking out against the west but this under this scenario would be an example of isis trying to strike back at one of the european countries responsible for the bombing campaign against isis targets in iraq don. >> phil black, thank you very

much for your reporting. i want to bring in john miller nypd's deputy commissioner of intelligence and counterterrorism. thank you for joining us. you heard phil's report. the belgians are hunting for the alleged mastermind of the terror attack there. they say that they know who he is. if they get him, what can they learn from him? >> well i think they're looking for two things. on the ground floor of this, what you're looking to understand is understand plots. what plot did they interrupt? what other plots might be out there? but i think when you get upstairs in the structure of this what you're really looking for is to understand the network more than the plot which is was he part of a sophisticated isil external operations plot as your correspondent, mr. black, discussed, the possibility of a minute ago. or are these returning fighters coming from syria who have taken

it upon themselves to act under the isil flag? and that's important to understand on a couple levels. >> let's talk about the sheer numbers that you're working with here. anti-terrorism experts think around 3,000 europeans have traveled to iraq and syria to wage jihad. 500 of them they believe returned to europe including 70 to belgium. what is it about europe that has made it the focal point of terrorists? >> i think you have a large community there, a little bit less of a melting pot in terms of assimilation and a lot of people with family members they're going to see. excuse me. >> we're all dealing with it. i'm dealing with it as well. is this growing terror threat in europe is it a wake-up call to the united states? >> i don't think we need a wake-up call. we're the country that lived through september 11th. we're the country that has disrupted dozens of plots against u.s. soil and american

interests overseas. so i think we live on some level of the low end of high alert on a regular day, and then a higher alert on days when you have this kind of activity. >> so watching what's happening in europe especially paris this doesn't -- i mean did you raise the terror threat level in new york city? it's not surprising to you as the head of counterintelligence -- >> i wouldn't say it's surprising, don. i think whatever the opposite of surprising is. we expected this to happen. when we saw it happen in sydney with an individual claiming isis connections, when he took over a chocolate store, we expected it not at that hour at that day, at that address, but we knew something like that was coming. if you look at the isis call that went out on september 22nd saying those who can come fight with us, come fight with us here in syria. and those who cannot strike out for us where you are.

within literally a month of that we saw the attack by an individual named had ir against the australian police station using knives after it appeared to him they were going to prevent his trip to syria. same thing with the canadian soldiers being run over. in canada we saw two days later the strike against the parliament with the rifle wield. the next day in new york city the hatchet attack against four police officers. so we know a person like thompson who visited 270 of these websites in the days leading up to that we know that this message is having impact. >> you said it's the opposite of surprising to you, but there were intelligence failures in paris. there were intelligence failures because the brothers were being watched, then they weren't. they also failed to look at the phones and the computers of

their girlfriends. it was believed that the kouachi brothers were using their computers, their cell phones their girlfriends' and their wives. so the paris authorities weren't checking those. there were intelligence failures. >> it's easy for you to say there were intelligence failures because you are in the news business. we can be quite certain that the french authorities are going to peel back through this. i look at intelligence failures in a very nuanced way in this job than i might have in my last job. and that is what are the limits of what we're allowed to collect? how have those limits tightened in the post snowden era where people want less intrusive tools and less surveillance and where they're reining in authorities. and then the last people in a constitutional democracy, whether it's the united states or france what are the limits

of what you can do if you suspect something if that person isn't violating the law right now? so i don't mean to suggest there are or there were not intelligence failures. i would suggest it's a very complicated environment to operate in day to day, given the pressures that my people are under day to day and it's an easy one to criticize after something happens. >> you said the snowden era, right? is that what you said? are you saying that in light of what was revealed about the nsa and wire tapping and all of that stuff, you think that intelligence officials should be given more leeway is that what you're suggesting? >> i'm not saying more and i'm not saying less. i'm saying that people from country to country, society to society, have to decide where they want -- how they want the tensions set in a democratic society. after the snowden revelations, many of which were factually misreported, some of which were

accurate and some of which were just plainly misunderstood, there was a great drawing back on that on the idea that big brother should not be looking over people's shoulders. once you have a series of terrorist attacks, people start to talk about intelligence failures and people had trouble seeing through the very windows that people demanded be closed. so again, it's complicated, it's nuanced and i think we need to have a general discussion. and before we jump to this it's not about how much freedom are you willing to trade for security. it's about in a society where they demand security and they expect freedom, how do you want to set the tensions between the two as a democratic society. >> i want to ask you about yemen. the government there is in danger there now. how much of a security threat do you think that is to the u.s.? >> it's interesting because yemen is a country that's long been embattled.

it's gone through long civil wars. it's been in the throes of this fight for sometime. today you had the presidential palace surrounded mortar fire and machine gunfire. think of a battle raging around the white house. that's a tenuous position for a country to be in. but what does yemen mean? yemen is the headquarters of aqap al qaeda of the arabian peninsula. that's al zawahiri the leader of al qaeda's main go-to guys when it comes to plotting against the west and the united states in particular. so the best way for a terrorist group to function is in ungoverned spaces. when the government falls, that becomes an ungoverned space. so that's one risk. the complicating factor the tribes that are trying to take over are not necessarily friends with aqap. in fact the intelligence suggests they're getting cosier with the iranians which is a

whole different problem. but what it is it's instability. >> and it is a threat to the u.s. and -- >> exactly. in one form or another. >> john miller thank you. >> thanks for having me. we have more to come here on cnn on the terror threat across europe and what we have to do to keep it from spreading. plus why some people are so angry about america's favorite movie. does american sniper tell the real story? and martin luther king's dream 50 years after selma. how far have we come and how far do we still have to go? ♪meow, meow, meow, meow...♪ it's more than just a meal it's meow mix mealtime. with great taste and 100% complete nutrition, it's the only one cats ask for by name. why do i cook? because i make the best chicken noodle soup. because i make the best chicken noodle soup. because i make the best chicken noodle soup. for every way you make chicken noodle soup, make it delicious with swanson®.

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our breaking news a manhunt is on for a terror suspect. a source says the suspected isis ringleader of the belgian terror plot has been identified and at large tonight. i'm joined now by colonel james reese, retired delta force commander and cnn military analyst, also security analyst and former homeland security secretary. and paul cruickshank. paul the suspected isis plot ring leader has been identified. what are you hearing about him and his associates? >> well that's right, don. he was identified to us by a senior belgian official as the suspected ring leader of this plot in brussels. this is a belgian moroccan isis

operative who was in syria, but traveled to greece so that he could direct this plot in belgium. he was in phone contact with the plotters in brussels. he is suspected of being connected back as well to the top leadership of isis. the belgians think this was an isis-directed plot a kind of game-changer with isis pivoting towards launching attacks against europe -- specifically the european countries that have been launching air strikes against them in iraq countries like the uk and france and holland and denmark and of course also belgium. >> fareed zakaria spoke to a former cia director and defense secretary leon panetta, he said this is a much more aggressive and dangerous chapter in the war on terror and that he thinks it's a matter of time before terrorists direct an act of violence here in the u.s. you heard what john miller said. he said surprising but not

really surprising the attacks and what's going on in europe. what are your sources telling you? >> well that there's been no moment since september 11th or maybe even before when we've been perfectly safe or invulnerable to the kind of attacks that we've seen. obviously given what happened in france and belgium, this is a more organized, more sophisticated and therefore more lethal type of terrorist attack but to believe that before the beginning of 2015 we were invulnerable and now we're vulnerable is just not true. there's just too much going on. whether it's the lone wolves or whether it's the tightening -- or whether it's any of a number of incidents that we've seen since september 11th i take panetta as just making a point that we can't let our guard down and that's why we have a series of layered defenses both offense and defense here in the homeland to minimize the risk but always knowing it's never going to be perfectly safe.

>> colonel reese? >> you know don, since 9/11 the one thing we learned very quickly was, the world has changed. so all these people saying these things this is nothing new. unfortunately what happens to us is we kind of get in a lull. nothing's happened. you saw what happened here with isis just last year. boom it became this big surprise. for the people that are watching these things it's not a big surprise. it's again, a way to get everyone involved especially in the u.s. and make sure everyone's aware. >> you know, the u.s., paul, has raised the alert level in yemen and the embassy is prepared to evacuate immediately. should that be necessary? what are you hearing about the violence there? >> well there's a lot of instability in yemen right now and that's because of the houthi takeover of the capital. these are a shia rebel group with strongholds in the north.

they surprised everybody by taking control of the capital sanaa in october of last year. there's been a contest between them and the central government since then. and we've seen skirmishes today between the hadi government and the huthy rebels. but the houthi rebels have the upper hand. everybody's worried about this because it's very destabilizing. the government there has taken its eye off combatting al qaeda, and al qaeda in yemen have taken advantage of this sectarian issue, these shia rebels pouring down southwards from the north to recruit from the sunni tribals and they've been able to expand their presence in yemen and develop more resources and territory under their control. of course that's worrying for the united states because this is the group which has john miller was saying is the most active in terms of targeting the united states. in recent weeks, the group has said that it's their priority number one to hit america with some kind of plot.

we've seen them try and bomb u.s. aviation in the past with the underwear plot also a printer bomb plot in 2010 and some other plots as well. so a lot of concern about events in yemen, especially given the fact that this group claimed responsibility for the attacks in paris just a couple of weeks ago. >> and i want to get juliette and the colonel in on this. brevity is key here but i want to ask you about this. 3,000 europeans traveled to iraq and syria to wage jihad. 500 returns to europe, 70 to belgium belgium. are some parts of europe aggressive enough in monitoring potential terrorists returning from countries like iraq syria, like yemen? >> probably not as we've seen. it's not just the laws. it's the resources and the capability to link that foreign intelligence agencies know and what the domestic agencies are seeing.

it was the same gap we saw here for 9/11. it's never going to be perfect given travel and globalization throughout the world now. >> colonel? >> bottom line everyone is very aggressive. once these folks are coming out of syria and crossing into turkey to know that right now and not when they get back in the country and they're having to play catch-up. >> thank you all. colonel, please stay with me. up next "american sniper" breaks box office records and creates hollywood-style drama. a noted film maker notes that snipers are cowards. after all that is the movie any good? we'll get into that straight ahead. (vo) don't let a severe cold hold you back. sir? (vo) theraflu starts to get to work in your body in just 5 minutes. (vo) theraflu breaks you free from your worst cold and flu symptoms.

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the new bradley cooper movie "american sniper" is box office gold. it tells the story of a real life military sharpshooter who did four tours in iraq and was legendary tr taking down targets. but the movie has set off an

angry debate. michael moore tweeting snipers are cowards. >> americans are packing in the theaters to see "american sniper," the real life story of the man known as america's deadliest sniper played by actor bradley cooper. >> the film is breaking box office records this debut weekend. earning 105 million in weekend ticket sales and six academy award nominations. >> i loved it. i loved it. >> it was a very emotionally stressful movie, i thought. >> pretty good. very compelling. >> very good excellent. >> not so excellent however in the minds of some in hollywood. actor seth rogen tweeting quote, "american sniper" kind of reminds me of the movie that's showing in the third act of inglorious bastards. and film maker michael moore tweeting my uncle killed by sniper in world war ii. we were taught snipers were

cowards, will shoot you in the back. snipers aren't heroes. and invaders are worse. then five hours later, but if you're on the roof of your home defending it from invaders who've come 7,000 miles, you are not a sniper you are brave, you are a neighbor. moore's comments about cowards definitely getting some pushback. >> for somebody who has spent their entire career on freedom of speech and freedom of expression to be criticizing an individual who kpampifies the very best, it's really biting the hand that feeds you. >> and movie goers we spoke to also took issue with the perceived criticism. >> i think he was fighting for its country. he was doing what he thought was right. none of us who don't serve or can't serve have no idea what our soldiers are going through. >> reporter: whether moore was talking about the film "american sniper" is now a gray area. tweeting hmm, i never tweeted

one word about "american sniper" chris kyle. i said my uncle killed by sniper in world war ii only cowards would do that to him and others. he goes on to say, so people want me to tweet something about "american sniper"? great acting powerful message, sad ending. there. then sending people to his facebook page for further clarification. regardless, one thing seems crystal clear on the street among the masses who saw "american sniper." >> he's not a coward. it's a matter of doing what he was told to do and what he was trained to do. >> george howell cnn, chicago. >> let's discuss this now. back with me colonel james reese, also joined by kate courtly, a former navy seal who we saw in george howell's report and film critic jeffrey lions. thank you to both of you gentlemen for your service. lieutenant, i want to get back to you and ask you -- sorry, colonel, what's your reaction to the criticism of mearn"american

sniper" sniper"? >> first, i've got to say it's a lot of something about a little nothing. but what i will say, the whole "charlie hebdo" attacks last week and the whole discussion about freedom of speech when you look at a guy like michael moore, who has 1.4 million tweet followers, you really have to ask yourself is this really where you want to go? and if you want to make a comment, that's great. he's allowed to do that because he's an american. but what i'd like to see, at least he comes out and says, but by the way, i want to thank the men and women of our armed forces for giving me that ability to speak freely. >> you said a lot of something about nothing. is that what you said colonel? >> that's how i feel. a lot of something about nothing. >> jeffery, $105 million at the box office this weekend. "american sniper" was the largest debut for a clint eastwood movie. why do you think it did so well? >> couple of reasons. first of all, it was nominated for best picture and bradley cooper for the third year in a

row. second movie he's been nominated with the word "american" in it. it's a bit of a catharsis. after the horrific attacks in paris, we wanted to see a movie in which the bad people are in the scope of a sniper. it's a true story and an excellent film. politics aside, it's very well done. bradley cooper spoke to the real chris kyle, bulked up put on 40 pounds got all muscled up and nt does look like the bradley cooper we know. he gives a terrific performance. so speaking as a movie critic alone, it's an excellent job and that's what got audiences. but it's a question of timing and it happened after this horrific event. all those things came together to make it a box office sensation. >> what do you think much how he was portrayed? >> look any time hollywood takes on something of this nature i always sort of cringe because i don't know what the outcome is going to be. so i went and saw this movie

last thursday with a couple of vets. we all came out of there just quiet. we really didn't say a word. once we got to the parking lot, we were all lightningke yeah they did it right, thank god they did it right. and i was really glad to see that. if i could thank clint eastwood and bradley cooper for taking something that's an incredible responsibility and doing it right. you know this was a great individual. this was a hero. and they took that responsibility seriously and i'm very proud of the movie they made. >> what would you say to comments like michael moore? >> pretty much the last thing i want to say about this individual because he's already gotten too much air time it just feels like somebody who's desperate to try to be relevant again because he's staring at a dead career. as far as i'm concerned his career is a really good confirmed kill.

[ laughter ] >> if i may say, don -- >> that caught everybody off guard, even the guys in the studio. go ahead. >> there have been other movies about snipers. a movie made a few years ago and those are not as involving as this movie is. so speaking only as a film critic this movie puts you in there with him. if you see the tv commercial and the scene where he has to make the choice where the guy the other end says it's your call you can see that he's not just there shooting blindly at everything and other snipers get killed in this movie and american snipers have been killed too. so it really is a very emotional and absorbing movie approximate. >> weave been talking about celebrities. not only celebrities have taken to twitter and other forms of social media to talk about "american sniper." the movie is about one of our hero warriors. it also exposes the sick culture of muslims and their way of living. someone else said "american sniper" is a big hit for

americans who fantasize about shooting arabs, but are afraid to go where arabs shoot back. so colonel reese america wants to kill the terrorists. but, you know, they only want to do it through movies? >> you know don, again, at today's time and age and where we are, i'm not even sure what people are trying to say there. war is tough. the men and women who have to go there and they come back like in the movie, you're seeing the different elements of the stress they have to come back to, the families the souls they give up. but michael moore and seth rogen, if they'd like to come see what these men and women have been through, that have to fight the terrorists they have an open invitation i'll take them to iraq any day. >> during this time of anti-muslim sentiment, are you afraid colonel, that "american sniper" will create even more

islamophobia? >> you know, don, the first thing we have to keep in mind this is entertainment, first and foremost. you know i have 250 iraqi employees. and we talk about this all the time. several of them can't wait to see this movie, because it's entertainment, number one. but, yes, there's the left and the right and people will argue in the middle. but what i like to keep trying to tell people i remember what my mother told me in sixth grade, if you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all. >> the movie did not deal with his death. cade do you wish the movie had talked about that talked about ptsd and what soldiers face when they get home? >> no. i'm glad the way they dealt with it. i was kind of cringing when that was going to come on because obviously you knew where the ending was going with that. the thing i love the most about how they dealt with this movie, in america we have the opportunity to share opinions i love that that's great.

as long as the people that are making those opinions understand that when you're going to war, you might look at your wife and kids and that's the last time you say goodbye to them. and on the other side of that they're waiting for that husband or wife to come home that might not come home. and the breadth of that. that's all so we have the freedom and the right to share whatever opinion that is. i love the fact that people are able to -- especially with social media. you can say whatever you want to that's just the way it is in america. but when you hit send, it'sf just for a second you could remind yourself wait somebody fought for my right to push send on that. even just once a week. >> jeffery, we've been talking about oscars. do you think "american sniper" will take home an oscar, best picture, best actor? >> those who love the movie will want to think that way. i think it will belong to boyhood and michael keaton.

not to disparage the movie. and i didn't want to see how he died. he died at the hands of helping other guys who have come home and weren't as fortunate as he was. but it shows the effects of war on anybody who has had to kill other human beings. even though they were giving bombs to terrorists. and i was glad the film did it that way. i too was cringing and hoping we wouldn't have to see that. it's a very well made film. you're free to criticize it. there are things about it that may not make it a perfect film. but i was so absorbed by it and so moved by it. i have no complaints about the film but i don't think it's going to win the oscar. >> thank you all for joining us tonight. when we come back despite all the allegations, the show goes on. bill cosby in denver over the weekend and what his fans are saying about the legendary comic may surprise you. that's next. it lets you earn cash back twice, once when you buy and again as you

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cnn's ana cabrera has more. >> as the cosby show rolls into denver with back-to-back performances -- >> no means no! >> reporter: no love from protesters. >> i myself am a survivor of sexual assault. and i find it sickening that bill cosby has been able to get away with it for so many years. >> reporter: so you believe the accusations? >> absolutely. i believe the women. >> reporter: bill cosby fans show up in force as well. >> i honestly believe it's all scandal, all fake. >> he's phenomenal. he's an amazing man. >> reporter: excited to support a man they grew up watching on tv. a man they still admire and love. >> any reservations about coming tonight given the accusations? >> no i think he should be tried in a court of public -- a true court, not the court of public opinion. >> reporter: cosby has never been charged with a crime.

he and his lawyers have denied accusations, ranging from drugging to sexual misconduct made by at least two dozen women. >> he's a criminal. >> reporter: she believes cosby assaulted her in denver in 1986 after giving her a drugged cappuccino cappuccino. >> next thing i remember pitch black, three in the morning, i'm all alone in the back of my car, practically naked. >> what do you believe happened during that time that you don't really remember? >> all i know is my body was sore. >> while cosby hasn't commented on those specific allegations his lawyers have issued several statements saying in part over the last several weeks, decade-old discredited allegations against mr. cosby have resurfaced. the fact that they are being repeated does not make them true. >> what do we want? >> justice! >> reporter: gloria allred represents eight of cosby's accusers. >> and they're not going to live in fear of fame and money and

power and bill cosby. we're not going to let this go away. >> reporter: cosby fans aren't going away either. cheers and a standing ovation by many who think he is innocent. >> there are a lot of people who clearly didn't want bill cosby to come and perform in denver. what do you say to them? >> i can honestly say, give the guy a break. >> he's bill cosby. he's not god. >> you still love him? >> i still love him. >> reporter: up next ohio and then boston. more shows and undoubtedly more protests. anna cabrera, cnn, denver. bill cosby's lawyer is denying the latest sexual assault allegation against the comedian. chloe accuses him of assaulting her in august of 2008 at the play boy mansion. his attorney says he was not in california on the day of the party. coming up why one super bowl team is under fire for quoting dr. martin luther king

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talking so much about selma, what would dr. martin luther king jr think about the state of our union? how far have we come and how far do we still have to go? joining me now, dan jones, kevin madden and tara setmire and "new york times" op-ed columnist. four african americans, one white guy in the middle. segment over. no just kidding. >> we have overcome. [ laughter ] >> look at that. made everybody smile. tara i'm going to start with you. let's take a look at this tweet. it's from seattle seahawks. a photo with the mlk quote, take the first step in faith, you don't have to see the whole staircase. just take the first step. they tweeted an apology saying

they didn't intend to compare football to the civil rights legacy of dr. king. do they need to apologize? >> no. >> why? >> because they were being clever. it's a double entendre. they took advantage of what happened yesterday, a fantastic nfc championship game where for most people they thought the seahawks had no chance. they came back, overtime win in dramatic fashion and russell wilson an african american quarterback wept with joy in the middle of the field because they overcame such a huge obstacle in football. i don't think that dr. king would be insulted that his idea of being able to overcome the odds to success and having stepped in faith would be used in so many different ways. i don't think he'd be offended. people need to stop. it's like a grievance industry that's out of control. >> for once we actually agree on something. i think that dr. king is bigger

than just -- he's also become an inspirational figure. he inspires millions of people. people turn to him and his quotes when they are trying to overcome something. i think it was fine. i think they made a mistake by taking it down. they made more news taking it down than putting it up. >> that was like you when you said we shall overcome. i thought of it as a joke like hallelujah but anyway -- >> it's pc gone amuck. it's ridiculous. >> many of us are thinking about the legacy of dr. king and about the holiday in context, with eric garner and michael brown, with the protests across the country. what does the legacy of mlk jr look like today? >> well it's a really broad question. i'll try to condense it as much as i can. there are some things that martin luther king fought for that are obvious successes. you know the codes written into

the law that specifically discriminated in writing against people of color. that is one of the things he fought for. and that has obviously been overcome. however, there are other things that martin luther king fought for, stood for, that we are still addressing to this day, the kind of structural bias that we encounter today is the second step in this fight for equality. i think we are still wrestling with that. martin luther king also -- one of the things that we don't think about martin luther king as as this really radical figure. if you look at his '67 speech on -- the anti-vietnam speech. he's an anti-war figure and he's putting his anti-war stance in the context of the war taking away resources from the poor. and i think this idea of him being a tremendous advocate for, you know anti-poverty advocate

is often overlooked. if you look at the march on washington that was a march on washington for jobs and freedom and people don't even think about it that way. they really just think about it as the "i have a dream" speech, his racial conciliation and they overlook his passion for dealing with issues of poverty in this country. >> let's bring in kevin. talk about tax credit and income inequality. he wants the wealthy to pay more taxes, wants to even the playing field. republicans are opposed to this. what do you make of that? >> well i think it's -- obviously it's a very different world view that republicans and democrats have. i think republicans, of course care about inner city communities. they care about giving those that are going through poverty a better life greater

opportunity. they just want to do it somewhat differently. the democrats, of course i think they also care about these communities and they also care about raising income levels but they believe that the government is the best vehicle to do that. and i think the big question for folks watching the speech is going to be whether or not the president is looking for political leverage. does he want to seek out a position and ultimately find some broader tax deal with republicans? or does the president want to play politics? does he want to reframe the republicans against the middle class? and it will be interesting to see whether or not republicans offer up some counterproposals to fight that perception. >> it is interesting to hear republicans now talk about income equality. >> well, i don't think that's something republicans have never talked about. it's something that's been you know thrown in the face of republicans because they don't propose bigger government solutions. so that makes them anti-poverty.

that's absolutely not the case. from the conservative perspective, it's about empowering the individual and providing opportunities, not guaranteeing outcomes. the war on poverty, 50 years later, we spent $21 trillion and it's been a catastrophic failure. >> that's not true. >> yes, it is. it's a catastrophic failure. >> that's not true. >> how is it not true? >> you have 80 means federal tested welfare programs. 29% are in poverty now. >> let him finish. >> quickly. [ all speak at once ] >> if you look at the statistics of the number of people who are elderly, who are impoverished before -- particularly before new deal but even after that as well as other kind of social safety net programs came into effect it's significantly lower. if you look at the effects of mal nutrition, there were

incredible -- >> $21 trillion you think that -- >> if you think that people should be mal nourished, maybe it's a failure. >> no, that's not a permanent way of life. don't put words in my mouth. >> started off so nice don. >> i know, we'll be right back. well somewhere along the way emily went right on living. but you see, with the help of her raymond james financial advisor, she had planned for every eventuality. ...which meant she continued to have the means to live on... ...even at the ripe old age of 187. life well planned. see what a raymond james advisor can do for you. you get sick you can't breathe through your nose suddenly, you're a mouth breather. a mouth breather! well, put on a breathe right strip and shut your mouth. cold medicines open your nose over time, but add a breathe right strip and pow, it opens your nose up to 38% more. so you can breathe and do the one thing you want to do sleep.

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when i was growing up we were taught about dr. martin luther king jr in history class. we had to learn parts of his speeches. we had to put on plays from the civil rights movement. i was dr. king one year. my friend monique was coretta scott king. after seeing "selma," i was surprised. my great nephews who spent this day off from school roaming around an indoor amusement park. thanks to dr. king they don't have to worry about whether black kids are allowed inside or which fountain to drink from or which rest room to use. that's what i think about on king day. although i wish their schools would teach them more about the legacy of dr. king. it was called black history in my day. but it's really american history. i was happy that my nephews could just be happy, be

children be free. to judge people by the content of their character and not the color of their skin. glad that's happening. that's the greatest gift. thank you, dr. king. that's it for us tonight. i'm don lemon. ac 360 starts right now. thanks for joining us. the dna evidence that might link one of the paris killers to a larger terror cell. new reporting on the mistakes that allowed the other two killers to remain free to plan their deadly rampage. later, hundreds of children are buried here. the local coroner says many simply did not have to die. we talk to a lawmaker who says why it's operating to the blessing of its colleagues. sandwiched between two tractor-trailers. how do you walk away from a wreck like this with barely a scratch? there's a person there, a man sandwiched in there in his vehicle. we'll talk to him. he survived. we begin with the paris

investigation and possibly vital new pieces starting to come together. dna evidence tying the kosher market killer to a suspect in custody. item two concerns the kouachi brothers. it's actually a collection of missed opportunities to keep a closer watch on them. yet more warning signs that were not acted on. details on that from pamela brown who joins us from paris. authorities in france are following up on this dna evidence collected from the attack on the kosher market. what's the latest on that? >> reporter: that's right. authorities here in france are honing in on two individuals, anderson. one is in police custody right now. his dna was found on coulibaly's car, in the car that transported him to the kosher market. where he killed four people. and there's oort man still on the run, his dna was found on amedy coulibaly's gun magazine. it's very concerning. officials want to track him down

to see if he was in any way complicit with the terror attacks here. >> in terms of tracking the kouachi brothers in the months and years before the attack, i understand intelligence failures have now been revealed. >> reporter: yeah, significant missteps we're learning, anderson, from sources. we know the kouachi brothers were put on surveillance. in 2011. but as it turns out, intelligence agencies here in france only tracked and monitored their phones not their computers. so critical evidence that may have been on their computers was missed. we know one of the brothers was watching sermons from american cleric tied to al qaeda in the arabian peninsula. in 2014, one of the intelligence agencies was alerted to something found on said kouachi's phones. that was concerning. but they didn't pass that on until four months later to the domestic spy agency here in france. by then, the brothers were already taken off surveillance. just the fact in general they were taken off surveillance is concerning. one of the brothers, cherif

kouachi, of the selling counterfeit goods. authorities didn't think he was a threat anymore or involved with terror-related activities. so they lifted the surveillance on him. turns out he used the proceeds from the sales to buy weapons. >> we're going to report more on the belgian threat in a moment. the french arrested two people allegedly connected to that plot trying to cross their border. >> reporter: that's right. there were two people apparently crossing from france into italy that have been arrested in connection to the belgian terrorist plot. we learned that those terrorists who were planning an imminent threat, trying to murder police officers there. belgian authorities have asked for the extradition of those two suspects as well as the extradition of the suspect in greece an algerian man believed to be tied to the cell. it's very concerning, anderson, because authorities believe there are other jihadists who have returned from syria fighting alongside isis, as well as these suspects, in their custody, and those still on the

loss in europe and various countries. a manhunt is under way for those people. >> a lot of moving parts. pam brown, thanks very much. another major new development in that alleged belgian plot that involved up to 20 sleeper cells, 180 people they say ready to carry out attacks across western europe. police in bell -- belgium swept a number of them last week leaving two suspects did, and others rounding up suspected cell members. a ringleader has been identified, a one man called a link to isis in syria. paul cruickshank has been reporting the story and joins us now. i know you've been talking to belgian counterterrorism officials. what have they told you about this ringleader? >> they've identified him as abelhamid abaaoud, a belgian moroccan moroccan 27 years old, went to syria and iraq to join isis about a year ago. he's believed to have directed this cell who were plotting this attack in belgium from greece.

he was operating in greece. he traveled from syria to greece. in turn, he had connections to the senior leadership of isis. belgian counterterrorism authorities believe isis directed this plot. and it was going to be a major plot in belgium. >> you've talked about this as a potential game-changer, the notion that isis could actually be directing attacks in europe. why? because it's the first time that there seems to be evidence of an effort by them to actually do that? >> that's absolutely right, anderson. think of all of isis' resources. we've been talking about it for a long time, tens of millions of cash reserves, the training camps, the fact that they have up to thousands of recruits in their ranks. and people returning from syria to europe who have jihad and potential terrorist skills.

all that amounts to a very big threat. european intelligence agencies are detecting isis moving into the international terrorism business, plots in europe against the countries involved, and air strikes against isis in iraq, in denmark and holland and also belgium. >> we just heard pamela brown's report, and she was reporting on intelligence lapses, in stopping the "charlie hebdo" attacks. is france and their intelligence agencies not connecting the dots? i heard some people relate it to what the u.s. experienced prior to 9/11. >> it's a hard challenge for the europeans. there's not the cooperation between the different countries that you see between, say, different agencies in the united states. because obviously many different countries in europe, they all have different systems. and within countries, there are rivalries within the intelligence services. in france, in the external intelligence service and domestic intelligence service, they're trying to improve this. they're trying to rotate staff between the different agencies so they can connect the dots. but clearly, we've seen several failures most recently with these attacks in paris,

anderson. >> paul cruickshank, appreciate the update thank you very much. yemen, which stands at the nexus of this latest terror threat authorities say both of the kouachi brothers who attacked "charlie hebdo" had traveled to yemen for training and inspiration from the leaders of al qaeda in that country. that put fresh spotlight on the country. nick paton walsh is on the ground in the capital and joins us now. it's obviously very confusing, fluid situation on the ground there. what's the latest tonight in terms of this security situation? >> reporter: we have a standoff now for control of the country. the houthi rebel movement who today seemed to move toward the presidential administration they claim they were attacked first, effectively surrounding the prime minister in his residence and the administration itself. there are tense talks happening in which there's supposed to be, frankly, a magical political compromise.

some way out of this mess. the houthis talking to the presidential administration, asking, it seems according to the administrative minister, in order to release the president's chief of staff from their detention. that's really what sparked all this. the president's men deeply concerned. more of them could be abducted by the huthies. they didn't like that. we've seen a remarkable artillery duel in the administration. the prime minister and the houthi delegation as they left the talks, being shot at by unknown parties. very messy day. actually, i just heard over as we see potentially dawn in the next hour, light gunfire to the left of me. that being an exception really. it has been quiet since the cease-fire. deep concerns this political deal must deliver or we could see violence again this morning. anderson? >> explain the players here. there's this rebel group, the houthis, but the al qaeda affiliate there is an enemy of the rebel group, correct? >> reporter: absolutely. this is what makes it so much more dangerous.

the houthis predominantly share a group of militia, tribesmen. from the north of the country, very effective recently. some western diplomats say assisted by iran which they deny. sweeping into the capital of sanaa, taking over much of that key city, clashing with the government. but also letting them exist briefly. but of course, eventually those two powers came to some sort of clash, and we saw that today. separately are the sunni tribes that feel threatened by the shia advance, it is -- the sunni-shia divide. and a lot of the middle east sectarian. sometimes al qaeda joins those tribes and the attacks of the houthis as well. the real fear that the shia are fermenting sunni unity alongside al qaeda and giving al qaeda a boost here. that's why this chaos is in two ways so damaging potentially to western interests. >> dangerous days there. nick, stay safe.

set your dvr, watch 360 whenever you want. coming up next video documenting nearly every step in one man's plot to commit mass murder in the name of islam. >> i'm going to go inside a place, a capital, or somewhere. i'm going to explode. >> later, what one politician, this one did, when his talking points on muslim no-go zones in england came up against the facts. did he drop the talking points? we're keeping them honest, ahead. startup-ny. it's working for new york state.

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last week's arrest of christopher cornell for planning to plant pipe bombs at the capitol and shoot anyone running away confirmed fears that law enforcement has about lone wolf

terrorism, namely that a single person with bad intentions might be easily influenced by jihadist propaganda can wreak havoc. people like cornell can be hard to identify and stop. we've been talking about that. new video released by the fbi shows how hard it is to infiltrate a suspect's dark world and groom them and then arrest them. cal evey had similar plans to cornell, but agents were with him every step of way and shooting video all the while, video you're about to see. here's susan candiotti. >> reporter: the video is convincing. watch the man sitting in the front seat. >> i've thought about this a long long time. >> reporter: a hidden camera rolling inside a car. amin sounds like his mind's made up. >> listen i'm going to go alone. i'm going to put everything on my body and go inside like a real place. maybe capitol or somewhere where there is main people.

>> reporter: a rare, frightening look inside the mind of a would-be suicide bomber. ready to strap on a vest with explosives, and blow himself up at the u.s. capitol. a lone wolf stopped by an fbi undercover sting. >> the difference here is not just the clear intent to strike us here, but the pursuit of the capability to be able to conduct that attack. i think the tape shows that very well. >> reporter: el khalifi seeking revenge on the u.s. for its war on terror. he's convinced god's telling him to kill. >> this is not about happiness anymore. it's about ala. >> reporter: he's in a hurry. the moroccan national is living illegally in the u.s., dealing with assault charges. >> i'm done. i'm done. my work is done. >> reporter: willing to die,

he's inside a store buying nails for shrapnel for his body bomb. bragging about the size of the nails, excited about the damage he can do. >> thick ones not thin ones the ones that will make damage, right? >> reporter: again, he brings up his target, the u.s. congress. >> yeah i want to go somewhere with those suits. >> exactly. i want those people. >> reporter: undercover agents drive him to a landfill setting up a test bomb for his suicide vest. back inside the car, undercover agents using a cell phone show him how easy it is to detonate a bomb. >> you're going to call it. okay? upon it's called test. you just hit okay and get it to dial. >> reporter: he gives him the phone, and moments later -- >> whoa! >> reporter: the time is getting closer. >> i'm not thinking about anything. nothing. i have my decision.

i seen some stuff in my dream. >> reporter: and his dream includes shooting anyone who gets in his way. in a hotel room with undercover agents, he practices with a mac-10. >> hold the trigger -- it's going to keep firing. hold it tight, man, hold it tight. doesn't take much. >> you just point, aim, and shoot. >> reporter: ready to target the capitol. el khalifi drives to a garage, puts on what he thinks is a real suicide vest and grabs a loaded mac-10. both are duds provided by the fbi, and agents take him down. >> individuals who are self-radicalized, can exist off the radar, as it were, for a long time. until they're ready to actually go out and act. and that's the scenario that causes us the most concern. >> reporter: after pleading guilty, el khalifi gets a 30-year sentence. he tells a judge, i just want to say, i love allah. susan candiotti, cnn, washington.

>> that undercover operation lasted more than a year. el khalifi was arrested back in february of 2012. a resident ever virginia. fast forward to chris cornell in ohio. there are similarities. joining me is former bush homeland security adviser fran townsend. after watching that, you have to ask, why do these fbi agents wait until the last minute to take him down? was that just a matter of trying to build their case as much as they could? >> not only that, anderson, in these sort of undercover operations the primary defense they're trying to protect the case and investigation from is an entrapment defense. you saw in the tape, they didn't -- the undercover agents didn't lead this guy. he was explaining to them what he wanted to do, why he wanted to do it the capability that he was seeking. i mean, this is really a very clear crisp case that sort of thwarts the entrapment defense. but the longer they let it go, and show both his intent and capability to carry it out, the more solid the case is for prosecution.

>> there is a lot of criticism of the fbi in cases, in past cases like this. i talked to chris cornell, the young man arrested, allegedly with an idea of attacking the capitol as well, his father was indicating to me in an interview that he believes maybe his son was led down a path he would not have otherwise taken by an informant, or by the fbi. >> and that's always the defense. anderson, that's exactly why what you'll see are long-term investigations, multiple meetings, and as much as possible. you want to show that the intent is on the part of the individual, not on the part of the undercover agent. and it's also why, anderson, these investigations involve prosecutors very early on, so the undercover agents are getting legal advice from the prosecutor to make sure that they don't overstep, or lead this person, and by the way, all that evidence is reviewed by the prosecutor before charges are brought. >> have they had much success,

or does the idea that, you know, that a person was led down this road, was set up essentially? how is this worked out in past cases? >> the fbi has been very successful because of the involvement of the prosecutors and lawyers very early on. and over time, they've gotten more and more successful at ensuring that they build these cases slowly and deliberately. and frankly, what that means is, ultimately it's the defendant that's driving the pace of the investigation. because they're the ones who have to talk about why they want to do what it is, and what the capability is they need. what is their intent and how are they going to carry it out. it's got to be in their words, not in the agents' words. >> even if it's the fbi supplying them with a dummy cell phone, with a suicide vest, with a weapon, as long as they have expressed their intent, the fbi's had success in getting prosecutions? >> absolutely. and it's very important that these cases are very, very hard to put together without this sort of undercover work. >> fran townsend, appreciate it.

as always, find out more on this story at cnn.com. up n, this governor of a major state speaking out against no-go zones in england where non-muslims cannot go and regular laws don't apply. we'll look at that and see how he explains himself. keeping him honest. also later tonight, a crash course in survival from the survivor himself. there's a guy in there. that's his vehicle crushed between two other vehicles. he was able to walk out of there on his own. i'll talk to him ahead. what makes it an suv is what you can get into it. ♪ [container door closing] what makes it an nx is what you can get out of it. ♪ introducing the first-ever lexus nx turbo and hybrid. once you go beyond utility there's no going back. why do i cook? because i make the best chicken noodle soup. because i make the best chicken noodle soup.

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keeping them honest. politicians, not to mention pundits, who don't let the facts get in the way of a good talking point, even though the talking point has been repudiated apologized for, and backed away from the very same people who got it going in the first place. today in london bobby jindal spoke to members of a british think-tank think-tank. he warned about muslim immigrants carving out enclaves in england where sharia law is

the rule and non-muslims, especially the authorities do not go. it is startling to think any country would allow for a no-go zone. if that phrase sounds familiar, there's good reason why. take a look. >> one place non-muslims are reportedly not allowed to enter, no-go zones. >> muslims have said we want to be self-ruled by shari'a laws. they're called no-go zones that muslim populations have taken over that the police don't even go. >> so-called no-go zones. >> the no-go zones. >> no-go zone. >> no-go zones. >> no-go zones. >> no-go zones. >> i think they'll look hard and long throughout europe at no-go zones. >> we counted at least three dozen clips from fox news. where it's been a talking point for sometime. the notion came to global attention two saturdays ago when steve emmerson appeared on fox. >> in britain, there are actual cities like birmingham that are totally muslim, where non-muslims simply don't go in.

>> that came as news to prime minister david cameron. watch. >> when i heard this i choked on my porridge. i thought it must be april fool's day. this guy is obviously a complete idiot. >> he's since apologized to the people of birmingham saying his comments about the city were totally in error. fox issued a pair of retractions saying there's no credible evidence that there are specific areas in these countries, meaning britain and france, that exclude individuals based solely on their religion. will -- the story isn't about fox. it's about a governor, possible presidential candidate, making assertions with these kind of statements without any facts to back them up. max foster was in london today to confront governor jindal about this story. here's how it went. >> look, i've heard from folks here, there are neighborhoods where women don't feel comfortable going in without veils. that's wrong. there are neighborhoods where police are less likely to go into those neighborhoods. >> but you need the proper facts to back that up.

i've lived here a long time i don't know of any no-go zones here in london. >> i said so-called no-go zones. if they want to pretend like this problem is not here won't make it go away. >> but the no-go zone is also -- >> look, there are people here in london saying there are neighborhoods the women don't feel safe walking through those neighborhoods without veils. where police are less likely to go. that's a dangerous thing. >> you're making an assertion like that -- you need to give me the area so we can look at it. because i haven't heard of one. >> i think your viewers know the places they're less likely to go. they absolutely know their neighborhoods they wouldn't feel comfortable. >> that's high crime rates. it's not because there are too many muslims there. >> look this is the question. i know the left wants to make this an attack on religion and that's not what this is. what we're saying is, it absolutely is an issue for the uk, absolutely is an issue for america and other european and western nations. >> max foster joins us now. even after you pressed him on this, he continued to stand by

the claim without actually giving any specific evidence saying -- at one point he said he met with elected officials and others about this. just to be clear, no-go zones in england in terms of areas the police do not go, you're saying that just does not exist period. >> we were trying to get to the bottom of what he's talking about, really. i'm not sure where he's pointing right now. he also couldn't name of the people he had spoken to. so we couldn't weigh up how credible his sources were. what i can say is that i spoke to someone just last week very well placed in counterterror in london and he didn't talk in any way about no-go zones. certainly there are communities and issues with people in communities, jihadist communities, talking to each other. but it wasn't a geographic thing, it wasn't an area you couldn't go into. i've worked with the police about areas they're apprehensive

about going into but certainly the police would never say they would never go into an area and those areas are mixed. they are high crime areas, estates, which are dangerous. it's nothing to do with muslim communities. so i'm still a bit baffled about where he's making his point from. >> cnn did air a report i think it was two years ago about kind of a muslim patrol in one community in england. people kind of telling people don't drink alcohol here this is a muslim area. but you're saying even in a place like that that doesn't make it a no-go zone, where police don't go, where others aren't allowed to go? >> no, and i haven't heard much of that since. there's been talk in other areas outside london. but certainly not in london. those were isolated cases and they haven't prevented others from coming in. it's focused on people who are living there and part of the family communities. but even then it hasn't become an issue where non-muslims can't

go into those areas. london is very diverse. there are lots of communities, polish jewish all sorts of communities. that's what people love about london. and there's never this concern, i don't think, about going into muslim areas. >> max foster appreciate it. up next meet the man who walked away from a remarkable incredible crash. he was sandwiched between two semis. hear how he made it out alive. ♪meow, meow, meow, meow...♪ it's more than just a meal it's meow mix mealtime. with great taste and 100% complete nutrition, it's the only one cats ask for by name. ameriprise asked people a simple question: in retirement, will you have enough money to live life on your terms? i sure hope so. with healthcare costs, who knows. umm... everyone has retirement questions. so ameriprise created the exclusive confident retirement approach. now you and your ameripise advisor.... can get the real answers you need.

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icy weather made driving treacherous in more than a half dozen states. five people have died. dozens of people were injured in this 26-vehicle pileup in oregon. 12 semis were involved. thankfully no one was killed. it's truly amazing considering what happened to kaleb whitby. take a look at this image. it's hard to get a sense of what's going on there. that is him crushed in between two semis in what was left of his chevy civilado. his truck slammed into one semi and was hit by another one.

he was able to walk away, once he got free. he only needed two band-aids, ice for his minor injuries. kaleb is alive and well and joins me tonight. so kaleb, this picture is unbelievable. take us through what happened. i know you were driving down a hill and a truck jackknifed in front of you. what happened then? >> i mean, the first thing i did was kind of gasp. i aimed the pickup the best i could to a place where there wasn't going to be any people, which ended up being the trailer. so i aimed for the trailer. and somewhat did. and ended up hitting the corner of it head-on. and as soon as i hit it with my pickup, it shut the pickup completely off and left it kind of sprawled out in the road. with the passenger side facing oncoming traffic. >> so you could see -- you're out of your passenger window, you could see other vehicles coming toward you. >> i saw one vehicle. as soon as it stopped, and all

the lights shut off, i looked out my passenger window and i saw one pair of lights coming at me and that was the semi. >> what is that like to see this semi truck coming right at you right after you've had this crash? >> it was one of those things where it's like, oh, my gosh, is this actually going to happen. and it was from then on that i grabbed on to the wheel, turned my head back forward and closed my eyes and prayed. >> did you feel your vehicle essentially crumpling around you? >> yes. yes. i mean, it happened so fast. so, i mean, it was loud. and there was glass everywhere. and the next thing i knew, i could just feel everything kind of tighten in around me. if you've looked at the pictures, every single point on that pickup, if you were to divide it kind of -- i mean, the only corner that was not crushed or pushed forward was my spot. everything else was completely pushed forward and down and covered in glass and metal. >> and once they got you out, i understand you were actually able to walk away?

>> yes. it took about 10, 15 minutes for stuff to slow down. vehicles to shut off. and people to get out of them. and be able to walk around the accident. it was then that i was able to yell for help. and a group of truckers heard me. now, they kind of walked past at first glance because there might have been at the widest point four or five feet. so they didn't even think there would be a vehicle in there. they were able to shine their flashlights in and see me. and they came running. they checked on me for a few minutes and made sure that i was okay. and that's actually when the picture was taken. one of the guys that took the picture, he made sure to ask if it was okay if he did. he kept saying, you're never going to believe how it is. and how incredible it's going to be when you get out. >> how are you feeling now? it looks like one of your eyes, like you have a black eye there. >> my left eye, it looks like i have eye shadow on. that's a couple of days with the

browsing. -- bruising. but i have a couple of scratches on my right hand, from the glass that was smashed down. other than that, that's it. >> well, it's just extraordinary -- thank goodness you were able to walk away from this. >> yes. >> kaleb, i appreciate you being with us. thank you. >> no, i thank you. >> incredibly lucky. other stories we're following tonight. amber? >> hi there, anderson. parades and memorials across the country honor the legacy of martin luther king jr. the slain civil rights leader would have turned 86 this year. in washington, president obama along with the first lady and eldest daughter malia marked the day helping with projects at a boys and girls club. the president says americans who use this holiday to volunteer honor dr. king by heeding his call to serve. we have new details about pope francis' trip to the united states. he is attending the world meeting of families in philadelphia in september. today he told reporters he will also visit new york, and washington.

the trip will be the popular pontiff's first to the united states as pope. and a new england patriots are headed to the super bowl. but not without controversy. it is being dubbed ballgate. the nfl is looking into whether the patriots deflated the footballs used in yesterday's emphatic 45-7 win over the indianapolis colts. so there you have it. controversy once again surrounding the patriots. >> yeah. thanks very much. new developments in a story i did for 60 minutes back in 2012. that we aired on this program. i interviewed a north korean man who described what it was like to grow up in a north korean prison camp. since the story first aired, questions have been raised about the truthfulness of some of his accounts. this month, a journalist who wrote about his experiences said chin had changed key parts of his story, including the timing and circumstances of the time in

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there are many people in the united states who pray when a child is sick. some faith healing parents believe their devotion to god is the only acceptable treatment for illness, even if it means letting their child die. many members of the followers of christ are moving to idaho because under state law, parents who choose not too take their children to the doctor for religious reasons are not charged even if death could have been prevented with basic medication or treatment. gary tuchman traveled to idaho to talk about the alarming rate of child deaths in this sect. >> reporter: inside this idaho church are reclusive members of a christian sect who don't believe in medical treatment from doctors. even when one of their own children is near death. and they don't particularly like questions from reporters. >> good-bye. >> we're just trying to let our viewers know why doctors can't be used for your children. >> good-bye.

>> good-bye. >> reporter: this is the veteran coroner in idaho. he has done autopsies on children who are part of that sect. the followers of christ church. which has an estimated 1,500 members. mostly in idaho and oregon. >> do you believe that many of the children you've done autopsies on would be alive if their parents took them to the doctor? >> oh, yes. without a doubt. that's not even a question. >> reporter: and this is where some of those children have been laid to rest. the peaceful valley cemetery in rural southwestern idaho. a cemetery that belongs to the church. the sense of despair when you walk through here cannot be overstated. this is a relatively small cemetery, so it's obvious the high percentage of grave sites that are the final resting places of children. there are adolescents buried here, toddlers, babies, and infants who died the day they were born. it's not known how many would have lived with the proper medical care. but people who have left the

church tell cnn that roughly 200 of the 600 people buried here are children. one of those former members said this is the church's philosophy. >> everything that happens to you in your life is god's will. it's pre-destined for you. and you either have faith in god to be strong and survive it, and that he will take care of you, or your faith fails you and you do not. >> reporter: at this point in the story, you might ask yourself, can this sect knowingly refuse medical care to dying children and get away with it? the answer is yes. idaho allows religious exemptions for negligent homicide, manslaughter or capital murder, one of six states with similar laws. but of those states, idaho is the only one where such deaths openly occur. bills have been drafted in the idaho legislature to change the law. but there has never been enough support to get legislation to a vote. >> bottom line, do you believe certain legislators, because of politics, are willing to let children die?

>> yes. i mean, i think that's obvious, just by, you know -- i guess the bill last year never even made it to committee. >> reporter: we wanted to ask idaho legislators why they're willing to accept this. many refused to talk to me about it. one of the house republican leaders agreed to go on camera, saying he realizes something needs to be done. but the politics in the deeply religious state are challenging. >> there's no sense in my opinion of running a bill that doesn't have a chance of getting through. >> reporter: but you want to see some sort of compromise? >> i would like to see something that helps protect the child. >> reporter: does it trouble you that children are dying in the state because of this law? >> it does. we do everything we can to try to protect the unborn, once they're born we should also still try to protect them. >> you're still not willing to say we should get rid of this law entirely this religious

exemption entirely? >> that's correct. we also have to protect religious freedoms. >> reporter: you were sick, hurt, no doctors were called. >> yes. >> reporter: ryan left the church when he was a teenager. he said this isn't an issue of religious freedom. >> i think it's 100% neglect and abuse. i think it's sick, and i think it's sadistic. >> reporter: brian said he was beaten with objects when he disobeyed. he broke bones, got sick and never saw a doctor, or got antibiotics or any medicine. then there was the time in 6th grade when his mother gave birth to a baby brother without a doctor. >> my own mother, the baby was hung by the umbilical cord during birth. >> reporter: what happened? >> i got to hold it while it was still blue, and semi-warm. and tell him good-bye. >> reporter: another case, this is the coroner report in canyon county, idaho, for a 14-year-old boy who died without medical care. the parents stated that he had been coughing and running a low-grade temperature for about two weeks.

as time went on, he began having more shortness of breath, and the rattle in his chest got worse. the mother was holding him on her lap when he died. the boy's father did not want to talk to me. i just want to -- >> no. you are not welcome. >> reporter: the followers of christ have church services twice a week. we visited after a nighttime service. i want to introduce myself -- >> bye. bye. >> reporter: i'm gary tuchman with cnn, i just want to ask you about some of the policies in the church. >> good-bye. >> reporter: can you -- >> good-bye. >> reporter: one church member, though, did give us a brief answer about why no doctors. >> we believe in putting our faith in god. >> reporter: steven paul hughes died when he was 2 of pneumonia. jerry lane gardner died when he was 11 from diabetes. so many other children from this faith, dead. so many outsiders, aghast. >> they don't have a choice. they're under their parents' care.

>> reporter: look at this tombstone in this followers of christ cemetery, with words disconcerting to many outside of the faith. sleep on sweet neil and take thy rest. god called thee home. he thought it best. >> gary, i understand the idaho legislature is currently in session. is there any new bill to deal with the situation? >> like the session began last week, that lasts for two months. there's absolutely no bill, no draft of any kind. it's very clear, anderson, that most of them would not talk to me who i reached out to. they want to stay as far away from this as possible. the fact is, these children have absolutely no say. they get sore throats, they get fevers, they get stomach aches, they get stuff that could be cured easily with medicine. they don't get the medicine. they then suffer, they linger and they die. while parents often think this is god's will at its core, this is inhumane.

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time for the "ridiculist." tonight i'd like to address something referred to as the gay agenda. i've never actually been to the secret meeting where the gays plot their agenda, although i imagine the catering is quite amazing. but thanks to a man named larry,

my eyes have been opened. larry says there's an avalanche sweeping across our country today, a tsunami. in an op-ed for the christian post, he writes, the indoctrination advocating a gay lifestyle in our country, classrooms, and culture are increasing. all of us need to take note and take action to guard those we love. we are being bombarded. you can tell larry's being serious, because the bs are capitalized. i don't know what a gay lifestyle is, just like i don't know what a straight lifestyle is. seems like all the gay people i know, just like the straight people i know, live all kind of different lives. i know gay police officers, doctors, marines, and a couple of gay tv news anchors, believe it or not. all of the ones i know want to live their lives with the rights and responsibilities as everyone else. larry said indecent behavior is conveyed to unsuspecting children and that both "dancing with the stars" and survivor have had gay contestants and ellen degeneres celebrates her marriage, yes, by the way, he

puts marriage in quotation marks. ellen talked about other examples on her show recently. >> in the article the pastor criticizes a lot of tv shows for promoting gay agendas. "glee" has over five characters. "modern family" had a gay wedding. anderson cooper boasts about his homosexuality. if you ask me larry is watching a lot of gay tv. >> that's right. i'm in there as well. me and my constant boasting. larry has a solution for avoiding this gay problem. he recommends parents turn off the tv and turn on the dvd player so their kids can watch wholesome shows like "i love lucy" and "leave it to beaver." i agree with larry, i grew up watching "i love lucy" and i'm as straight as they come. as for the beav, it never -- i never tuned into that. it never sparked my interest for some reason. those are the good old days when people could be arrested for going to the bar, fired from their jobs actually they still can in many states and live life

largely in the shadows. good times. larry may like the new tlc show about men who are naturally attracted to other men, but decide to mary women anyway it's called "my husband's not gay." some couples were explaining their reasonable decisions. >> every time i got to the core of who i am, i knew that i wanted to be married to a woman. and i knew that i wanted children. and i wanted to be a father. and i want to be called daddy when i come home. >> for the record there are plenty of gay people having kids these days. if you're a gay guy who wants to be called daddy, you don't necessarily have to marry a women. there's been criticism about gay people who feel it supports the notion that somehow gay people can and should change. i feel certainly for anybody who's not happy with who they are. the guys on this show insist they have regular marriages and do regular guy things like go shopping together. >> you see that guy over there? >> mm-hmm. >> what do you think? >> he's a good looking guy for sure. >> he's okay. i kind of like guys that are a little more athletic. >> is it your type? >> yeah, i think he's a great looking guy. i like the swimmer's build.

>> what's the swimmer's build? >> what kind of guy are you into? >> usually taller. like ryan reynolds. >> with you there. >> who isn't. >> just like a bunch of straight married guys going out shopping together. they also insist they can have attraction toward their wives even though they're inclined to be attracted to men. i'll let them explain. >> you could say i'm oriented toward doughnuts. and if i was being true to myself, i would eat doughnuts a lot more than i eat doughnuts. but am i miserable? am i lonely? am i denying myself because i don't eat doughnuts as much as i might like to eat doughnuts? i'm not. >> yeah. not gay. who's the doughnut in that analogy, by the way? i think he needs to throw something else in there, perhaps a bear claw. the point is gay people are more visible today. even though it makes larry uncomfortable, spends a lot of time watching and thinking about

gay people, i don't know turning back the clock or tv dial is the solution. look, larry, when you're up late at night thinking about what gay people are doing, you can always find a good re-run to watch. hello and welcome to our viewers in the u.s. and around the world. i'm zain asher. >> i'm john vause. the hunt is on for the mastermind of the terror plot. >> kenyan children fighting to save their playground. why police responded with tear gas. >> no go zones in the uk. britain's prime minister had this to say. >> frankly, i thought it must be april fool's day. this guy is clearly a complete idiot idiot. >> he upped the anty but can he back it up. >> lindsey vaughn's record-setting run.