trip delay. >> mary schiavo, cnn aviation analyst. thank you for that. rene marsh, thank you for working your sources. getting that to us as quickly as you could. thank you both. we'll stay on the story of course throughout the evening here on cnn. you're in the cnn news room. i'm poppy harlow. 4:00 eastern here on the east coast. a lot of news we're tracking for you at this hour. for the second time in a week new england's patriots coach bill belichick has addressed deflategate deflategate. he just wrapped up a fascinating press conference. this time belichick presenting a scientific synopsis on why footballs that his team used during last sunday's game in the afc championship may have dropped below the pressure level required by the league. and he said his team followed every single league rule to a tee. joining me to talk about is sarah gannon at the patriots facility. you were there. this was an impromptu press conference. we didn't know it was happening until an hour before it

happened. former nfl player cory wire joins us. some of the analysts i talked to out of this including christine brennan, cnn sports analyst, said this was just surreal. >> reporter: yeah. like you said to start off the top, this was not an expected press conference. we were told by the press people that after practice he just wanted to address the media. bill belichick got up there and basically said look i've spent a lot of time on this in the last week a week in which normally he would be devoting all of his time to prepping for a very big game the super bowl next sunday. but he wanted to find out, basically conduct his own experiment and find out what goes on with the pressure the air pressure inside these footballs. and he said that essentially they did a science experiment. they took footballs and pressurized them to the 12.5 psi, pounds per inch that quarterback tom brady has said he likes his footballs to be pressurized to. and then took them outside in different atmospheric

conditions at different times of day, and measured the psi, whether or not it went up and down. and bill belichick says that they found that the the psi dropped by about a pound and a half after the footballs were left outside for an extended period of time. now, he stressed that he wasn't a scientist and that this was just something they wanted to do to learn. the nfl is doing its own investigation. but there was a lot of math in this press conference i have to say, poppy. and a lot of science. and it was very clear to me that bill belichick wanted to put this behind him. because as the press conference went on he got a little agitated. he said that this -- he was not going to be talk about this anymore, that he stressed that this team tries to do everything right. he was called out on that a little bit, made him kind of upset. but he said that this was simply a case of -- he likened it to when you tire pressure on your car when the meter flashes because you get into the car on

a cold morning and your car has been sitting there. the tire pressure deflats. and when you drive a little bit it goes back up. that's what he likened it to. he said it was simply a case of science doing what science does in football. and that's where he left it poppy. >> and we're going to talk about that a lot more at 5:30 eastern right here on cnn. we have a special report all half hour on this with our very own rachel nichols talking to her sources about all that. sara stand by. i want our viewers who might have missed that press conference to listen to part of it. here's what patriots coach bill belichick had to say last hour. >> we found that once the balls, the footballs were on the field over an extended period of time -- in other words they were adjusted to the climactic conditions and also the fact that the ball -- the ball ss reached an equilibrium without the rubbing process that after

that had run its course and the footballs had reached an equilibrium, that they were down approximately 1.5 pounds per square inch. when we brought the footballs back in after that process and retested them in a controlled environment as we have here then those measurements rose approximately 1/2 pound per square in. . so the net of 1 1/2 back to 1/2 is approximately 1 pound per square inch to 1.5. i can tell you from all the footballs that i've handled over the last week i can't tell the difference if there's a one-pound difference or half a pound difference in any of the footballs. this team was the best team in the afc in the regular season. we won two games in the playoffs against two good football teams. best team in the post-season. and that's what this team is.

and i know that because i've been with them every day. and i'm proud of this team. so i just want to share with you what i've learned over the past week. i'm embarrassed to talk about the amount of time that i've put into this relative to the other important challenge in front of us. i'm not a scientist. i'm not an expert in footballs. i'm not an expert in football measurements. i'm just telling you what i know. >> all right. that is part of the press conference given earlier today just about an hour ago from patriots head coach bill belichick addressing deflategate saying look we did our own internal investigation and we did nothing wrong. the nfl of course still investigating. i want to bring in bleacher reports cory weir former linebacker and safety for the atlanta falcons and buffalo bills. cory thanks for being with us. your reaction off the top to

this very impromptu unplanneded press conference from the head coach. >> that's right, upon poppy. very unlike bell belichick. he avoids the media at all costs. for him to come out with a very strong p.r. move to deny the any fault in this matter was the main cause obviously. what he did do was he explained how their footballs possibly had become deflated. but what he didn't do is explain then why did the colts who were playing in the same game why were their footballs not deflated? at the beginning of the game -- before the game i should say, all 24 footballs, 12 for new england, 12 for indianapolis all registered correctly. they met regulation. then at halftime the report is that 11 of the patriots footballs were two pounds under the per square ininch regulation while the colts were just fine. the patriots balls were back to regulation at the end of the game. all 24 footballs, the colts and patriots were tested again.

but no pressure came out of them. there were no temperature differences. and so i did some research here. i talked to some of my sources that could give us some insight about this one of whom is a current head equipment manager in the nfl, has been for over 20 years. he said coy, there is no way that those footballs would have dropped below the regulation pounds per square inch 12.5 to 13.5 without someone doing it purposely. and he went on to add that someone's going to be fired for this. and you know it's probably going to be he said, probably the lowest guy on the totem pole in the equipment room. the blame will be pushed to them. >> coy, let me ask you this. here's the thing. we just don't know. all the nfl has said is that 11 of the 12 balls were below the pressure that they needed to be for the first half of the game. we have seen a number of former players, including troy aikman.

a number of former quarterbacks on espn saying that they believe that tom brady is lying. is it unfair is it just not right to jump to conclusions when we just don't have the facts from the official investigation? >> well the thing poppy, with the 2007 spygate situation they haven't given us the benefit of the doubt to believe them. and not to jump to the conclusions, but when you talk with some of these guys i mean those are strong words from hall of fame players like troy aikman. they don't just throw words out there like that. i've talked to current quarterbacks in the league. and this is a quarterback equipment manager or ball manager situation. every ball manager on game day knows how their quarterback likes their football to be. now, they work with the within that range, 12.5 to 13.5inch. speaking to that head equipment

manager, that ball manager knows how tom brady likes his footballs. he said this isn't the first time these football were that way. you wouldn't do that in an afc championship game. they wouldn't do it he said. before we get to other top stories, back to sarah gannon on the ground where the press conference took place. bill belichick saying this is the end of this subject for me for a long time. any chance of that? >> reporter: that's right. well there were still a lot of questions. the press conference was actually cut several times before he was able to leave the room. but i just want to address some of the things that were just brought up. belichick actually specifically made the point to say no matter what his quarterbacks like no matter what tom brady likes, they only can make a recommendation. he stressed that a lot. that it's the officials who actually inflate the balls. if a team tells the officials we want our balls inflated to 12.5 psi and then they leave the balls with the officials and he

stressed that several times, he said we're not the ones that inflate the balls. it's the official that is do that. we leave them a recommendation and then we wait and see -- we basically are at their mercy what they inflate the balls to for the game. poppy? >> sarah, before i let you go, what is next for the patriots? when do they head to arizona? what do we know about how much they've been able to focus on preparing for the super bowl versus on defending themselves in deflategate? >> reporter: that's a very interesting question. belichick actually said he was embarrassed to talk about the amount of time i've put into this. that's relative to the super bowl preparations. because he said he spent, it's clear from what you heard, the experiments that he ran, that he did put a lot of time into this in the past couple of days. you know he also said that this would not be something he would be talking about again. but the last question was an interesting one. it was what's next? how do you prevent this from happening at the big game next week?

and he said that was not something he was prepared to address, but it was something that he thought was an important question and an important issue. because he believes that this was an atmospheric act that caused these balls to deflate below the level that they're supposed to be during the game. >> and we're going to see them head i think tomorrow to arizona, right? to get ready for the super bowl? is that right? >> reporter: that's right. and the town is ready to send them off. they're getting ready for a sendoff parade. and the players that we talked to this morning in the locker room said that they were excited to be headed there, to have their families going with them and that they said -- they stressed that this was not a distraction, that they were ready to go that they were preparing and that this was not something that they were talking about amongst themselves with their coaches. all they were focused on was the game. they said controversy is something that surrounded this team before. they know how to handle it. they think they're well prepared to handle it. and that they're not talk about it anymore.

>> another thing to add, the players union actually suggested that the players not comment specifically on this to protect their fellow players, poppy. >> sarah gannon reporting fours live. thanks sarah. appreciate it. a lot of news to cover on cnn this hour. a lot going on. isis may be testing a new strategy after a chilling new video of two hostages just revealed today. this video appears to announce only one hostage is still alive of those two that were held now that a ransom deadline for $200 million has passed. we are not airing the video here at cnn because it is extraordinarily graphic. but it is video in which hostage kenji goto is holding a photograph that appears to show fellow hostage, haruna yakowa. a photo of yakowa beheaded. isis released these images of the two more than a week ago. then in this new video just released today, isis relayed a

brand-new demand to keep remaining hostage alive. they're not asking for money. they're not asking for weapons. what they are demanding is a female prisoner to be released from jordan. her name is saya rejia saui. she was arrested in jordan in 2005. she confessed on television to trying to pmt in a deadly terror attack an attack that ultimately killed 60 people. why is this woman so important? our expert panel weighs in just ahead. also thousands of miles away four new terror suspects are in custody in spain. authorities there arresting two sets of brothers earlier today in a remote area that borders morocco. officials say the brothers were ready to blow themselves up. we're going to examine the similarities with the recent "charlie hebdo" attack in paris. also i want to turn now, let's go straight to japan where the families of the two hostages are waiting for official word from the government on this chilling new video that has been

released. obviously they're all trying to authenticate it. let's go straight to our correspondent in tokyo, will ripley. will do we know if anyone has authenticated this video? they've confirmed it is indeed real? >> reporter: it appears judging by the language that we're hearing not only from the japanese prime minister shinzo abe and president obama and -- they believe this photo showing the decapitated body of haruna yokawa is authentic enough they're reacting strongly to it. that's the headline what a tragedy for his family who now an internet photo is the proof that they have that someone that they loved has been taken from the earth by a brutal terror group, somebody who wrote online that he was mentally unstable and had some problems and was trying to get a fresh start in the middle east. then you have the family of kengi goto trying to figure out

if the voice of this video -- it's a still picture with a voice underneath -- if this voice is indeed him. is he alive? or at least was he alive at the time the recording was made. shaming his own government and demanding that the only way to save his life is to secure the release of a convicted terrorist in jordan believed to be responsible for an attack where dozens of people died. so it's just a tragic situation all around. and the video not officially authenticated yet. they're working on it right now, poppy. >> quickly, will before we get to our panel to talk more about this what is the japanese government saying? >> reporter: they're outraged. strongly condemning what they call an un forgiveforgiveable act of violence. prime minister abe said he was speechless to think about the grief of the families. he held emergency meetings overnight. there will be more meetings in a few hours as the sun rises here in tokyo as they try to come up with a strategy. we note prime minister was also on the phone with the king of

jordan. we don't know what they were talking about, but we imagine it was this video and is there a possibility to work out some kind of deal to bring the one remaining hostage believed to still be alive back home to his wife two young children including a newborn. >> let's hope there is. will ripley reporting for us live in tokyo. 6:15 in the morning there. thank you will. isis demanding the release of a woman, a convicted terrorist being held in jordan. we're learning a lot more about her. we'll explain who she is what she did, and if they may release her in exchange for this japanese prisoner. that's next. when the flu hits, it's a really big deal. the aches. the chills. the fever. an even bigger deal? everything you miss out on... family pizza night. the big game. or date night. why lose out to the flu any longer than you have to? prescription tamiflu can help you get better 1.3 days faster. that's 30% sooner. call your doctor right away.

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all right. the latest demand by isis to swap one japanese hostage that they are currently holding for a female prisoner locked away in jordan. it has everyone wondering who exactly is this woman, and why is she so important to isis? let me tell you a little bit about her, then we're going to get to our expert panel. her name is sajida al-rishawi. she is a convicted terrorist. convicted with plotting part of a deadly attack in 2005 on three hotels in jordan that killed 60 people her husband also detonating a bomb. as you see, that is her giving a televised confession years ago and showing the bomb that was strapped to herself. she is iraqi, and she was sent from iraq to kill in jordan. also what's interesting about her, she said that she was forced to participate in the attack by her husband, and that she had no intention of detonating the explosives. however, explosives experts

testified that the triggering mechanism on her belt had jammed and that is why it did not go off. let me bring in my expert panel to talk about this. some insight in why exactly isis is calling for her release. joining me now former u.s. army delta force commander lieutenant james reese and lieutenant general mark hertling. first to you, general reese, why do you think this mom is so important, why isis has gone from asking for $200 million ransom to instead asking for her release? >> well poppy, one of the reasons is that once she's -- the ideologically she's been in there. and her husband did a huge thing for the ideology islamic peace, when he blew up the radisson hotel at that wedding party in 2005. the other piece is this. this network just continues to show that abu bakr baghdadi leader of isis he was a

lieutenant of muzar zawakawi when we captured him and killed him in 2006 there's a link back to this woman. this is just another way to help them bring these people back and help with their propaganda. >> so she was sentenced to death, then that was postponed. so she hasn't been executed yet, obviously. but this is a woman that it just seems, general hertling there's no chance that jordan would agree to release her, especially considering the fact that isis is still holding a jordanian pilot. >> poppy, let's go onto something different, though. what we have in isis is a terrorist organization attempting to be a political movement but in fact what they are is an arab criminal gang. in the arab culture, kidnapping and ransom is part of the criminal gang mystique. that's what they do. and they do things in order to get money or to intimidate or to

use terror in that way in this criminal activity. so this back and forth now with jordan on this particular individual on someone they sent to their death, i'm sure they want to get her back to prevent any additional intelligence although i'm sure she's given as much as possible. the second reason they may want her back is to kill her. these are all possibilities in this. but it just shows the type of things that daish is capable of. and that is an attempt at a back and forth ransoming to get their way. we should never fall into that scenario with them. these are just a bunch of thugs. >> general reese, to you, is there any chance that we would see a deal brokered here? >> poppy, i don't think so. i mean especially -- i know king abdullah personally. and he's a great guy. and i know he talks to the japanese ministers, talks to the president. and he has great regret for the

japanese man who was murdered by daish. however, they have their own issue with their own pilot right there. so he has to keep all his options open. and i just don't see that happening. >> what do you think, general hert hertling? >> i agree. one thing jim just mentioned was the jordanian pilot under the control of daish right now, too. they are using that as leverage. we're trying to -- they are trying to use this to break apart the coalition and people who are countering them. they are hurting right now. they have suffered some setbacks. and it's going to be problematic for them in the future. and they're grasping at straws right now, poppy. >> that's a very important context to put this in. because general reese, one thing very significant that we learned this week is that u.s. has said -- and our intelligence sources telling our barbara starr, that some 6,000 isis fighters have been killed by u.s. and coalition forces. about half of what they believe to be what makes up all of isis fighters on the ground. are we seeing a panic of sorts

from isis? >> well don't know if you'd call it a panic, poppy. i think what you're seeing is an attrition of what we wanted to do with the coalition to help the iraqis do what they need to do. and that's to start their counter offensive. and they have started. especially going north out of baghdad, up the tigris river valley. today in deala province northeast of baghdad, up along the iranian border they are having some great successes along with the shia militia for the iranian militia of destroying daish and isis in this area here. so yes i do believe like general hertling said what the generals are saying they're hurting and they're trying to struggle to gain back their momentum. >> gentlemen, thank you both. appreciate the expertise. and obviously our thoughts with the families of both of those japanese men at this hour. hopefully, hopefully the second

one can get released. thank you both. all right. we're also following this story very quickly that has been developing in the past few hours here in atlanta. norad scrambling jets fighter jets f-16s, to escort two commercial airliners that have landed safely in atlanta. what caused this? the details next. i know... this third shift is rough... it's just a few more weeks max! what are you doing up? it's late. i just wanted to have breakast wih you.

we are learning that two norad fighter jets have returned to their home base after escorting two airline flights to land safely at atlanta's hartsfield-jackson airport. we're talking about a delta flight and a southwest flight. all the passengers deplaned there. everyone is safe. but still quite a scare as the passengers were escorted away. bomb disposal crews right no inspecting the planes. joining me to discuss this retired lieutenant general mark hertling. thank you for being here sir. i'm glad you can talk to me. because you have some experience in this in terms of scrambling fighter jets after a scare. >> a little bit of experience poppy. i was a brand-new big dearrigadier general had checked into the pentagon about a week and a half before 9/11. what i learned is the chief of war plans during that period is as an army guy there are a lot of aircraft all over the united states prepared to scramble in this kind of situations.

after 9/11 we started an operational plan called noble eagle. that is not still in effect. it's an olding plarer plan. but it's geared toward what do you do with aircraft that have purported bombs on board or who have been hijacked and are possibly heading toward urban areas. with these aircraft the f-16s that escorted these two passenger jets they're in a very difficult situation. because most people think they're flying off the wing in order to provide them escort into in this case atlanta hartsfield-jackson. but in fact those pilots are under some extreme stress. because at a moment's notice they may have to pull a trigger on a passenger plane that looks like it might be headed for a target in the united states to prevent the kind of thing we saw in 9/11. that hopefully was in no way considered during this particular incident. but those are the kind of stressors that our great air force pilots the men and women who are flying those f-16 go through on a daily basis.

and there are more of these scrambles than you can imagine every day. >> that's what i wanted to ask you about, general. because our rene marsh was saying look these credible threats come far too often, and they're more frequent than we would think. according to her sources, these were threats posted on social media. obviously the authorities deemed them credible enough to scramble those jets. where's the line? i mean do you have any sense of where authorities draw the line on what they take as a credible threat? or in this day and age, following the recent attacks, the attack in paris, every threat they're responding to like this. >> it is not a binary decision, poppy. it isn't going to be a yes or no scramble that. there are a series of things that norad, north american air defense command will go through. that is a combined command between the u.s. and canada. so we're watching aircraft not only come into our shores but travel around the continental united states and transferring

back and forth between all country in north america. to get back to your question though there are a lot of things that go into the decision to scramble an aircraft. it doesn't happen all the time. but when it does happen -- and i don't want to give away the intelligence that is associated with that -- there are a lot of parameters that are met. and it could be anything from a large passenger jet with a credible potential bomb threat all the way down to a small private airplane that might be headed to an area that has lost radio contact. but what we learned in 9/11 a lot of lessons learned from that period of time is you can't dismiss any of these threats. you have to take all of them seriously. >> no question about that lieutenant general mark hertling thank you for your expertise. we appreciate it. quick break. on the other side we are going to get back to deflategate. a really significant press conference being held today by patriot head coach bill belichick. what he said. we did nothing wrong and i'm not going to talk about this anymore. is that the case? is he going to have to address

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health is everything. the coach of the new england patriots is once again speaking out about deflategate. he held an impromptu news conference this afternoon denying any assertion that his super bowl-bound team knowingly deflated any footballs used in last sunday's afc championship game against the indianapolis colts. now, the coach said that his team had tested the footballs and suggested that the cold weather, the atmospheric pressure may have caused them to deflate. listen. >> the fact that the balls reached an equilibrium without the rubbing process, that after that had run its course and the footballs had reached an equilibrium, that they were down approximately 1.5 pounds per square inch. and i can tell you from all the footballs that i've handled over

the last week i can't tell the difference if there's a one-pound difference or half a pound difference in any of the footballs. >> well, the patriots have been accused of deflating the footballs as a way to give star quarterback tom brady a better grip on the ball. a better grip means arguably better passes better passes in theory mean better chance at scoring touchdowns. now, the nfl confirmed yesterday that the footballs used by the patriots in the first half of the game -- the first half only -- were underinflated. but why? our football fanatics ben ferguson and mark lamont hill here to discuss. guys you're not scientists. bill belichick saying i'm not a scientist. i've learned more about this than i ever thought i possibility could in the last few days. but he's saying no one on the team did anything to alter the footballs bottom line. and i'm not talking about this anymore. ben, to you the nfl says are going to get to the bottom of it but will they where the super

bowl? >> i doubt it. but realistically they're probably going to take longer than that because there's going to want to be a suspension here. they don't want to suspend people before the super bowl which i think is pretty spineless. but that's what we expect from the nfl. but the part about belichick today where i think he dug himself even a bigger hole if that's possible -- let me get this straight. 11 of the 12 footballs on your side were affected by the weather, and the atmospheric pressure but the footballs on the other side of the field were not affected by the same weather. >> much warmer on the other side of the field. >> and they were okay. so yeah, exactly. i'm sitting there like wait let me get this right. what are you, five years old? no mom, i'm not eating the cookie and i've got two in my hand for goodness sakes. this may be one of the most embarrassing moments of his entire career. he actually wants me to believe that on his side of the field the atmospheric pressure was different than the other team he was playing who had no problems with poundage loss in their football. it's embarrassing. >> it's interesting.

because in the short q&a he took after his statement no one asked that. that's a question all the experts that had been coming on had been posing. let me ask you this mark. we heard from former dallas player super bowl winner troy aikman saying this quote he said for the balls to be deflated, that doesn't happen unless the quarterback wants that to happen. i can assure you of that. but i want you to also both listen to quarterback tom brady, who insists he had no idea that this had even happened. listen. >> of course. >> i would never do anything outside of the rules of the play. i would never have someone do something that i thought was outside of the rules. >> so you never knowingly played with a football that was under 12.5 pound of pressure? >> no. >> mark? >> i have watched a lot of sports in my day. first of all, this is the first time i ever agree with the dallas cowboys, dallas cowboys have been right. troy aikman is right. this only happens if a quarterback wants this to

happen. tom brady is right. he said i don't do anything that i think is unfair outside the boundaries of the game. but quarterbacks often play by unwritten rules. just like pitchers in baseball play by unwritten rules when they put a little extra spit on the ball do extra things with the base pad. it's not uncommon to see players cheat and bend the rules of the game. i would give the patriots the benefit of the doubt if this were the first time. but we had spygate before deflategate. it's bizarre of all the teams in the nfl, only this team keeps getting caught in cheating scandals. then for him to tell us somehow the atmospheric pressure of one half of the field is different than the other half of the field is an insult to people who think. >> ben? >> poppy, can you imagine if he would have come out and said i would have never said that we should tape another team's practice and i've never watched any of the tape that we ever recorded of another team's practice. i mean it's as ridiculous as that. of course he watched the tape. of course they cheated before. and when you cheat and then you

have something like this happen it's obvious that there's cheating going on here. and most important thing is this. tom brady wanted that football a little bit deflated because it was going to be a day where he needed a little extra grip because of the atmospheric pressure and the weather conditions of the rain. it doesn't happen without him saying let's go with this. >> guys let me ask you this. to you, mark first. is the media making too big a deal out of this? and b, a lot of folks, including you two, jump to conclusions before we have the answers from the nfl? is that right? is that fair? >> first of all, it's absolutely fair. in sports if this were the chris christie bridge scandal i would say let the stakesevidence come out. the stakes are hire. we're supposed to argue about hating tom brady or bill belichick for what they did. this is what the two weeks is for between the nfc and afc championship game and the super

bowl. it's for media speculation. but one team did not make the super bowl perhaps because they got an unfair disadvantage because of these footballs. 11 out of 12. it's not unreasonable at all to talk about this. if nfl didn't have a huge cash cow in the room they would be talking about this a lot more as well. >> ben? >> yeah and i think two things about this. one, i think the nfl are cowards on this one. going to have these fines or whatever come out after the super bowl. but there's also the mental side of this which i think is bigger than any advantage he got actually in real life. when tom brady took that field, somebody smiled grinned or winked at him like hey, buddy, you got the ball exactly how you like it. and the mental side of knowing that you can throw that ball and thread the needle the way you want to to walk out on that field and say, you know what i'm going to be okay today. forget the weather. i've got what i need to make it count and throw that ball where i need it to go. that is a massive mental advantage, which may actually be even bigger than the actual physical advantage he gained from having these balls

deflated. and the point is when you're an athlete at that level, the mental side of the game is bigger than anything else. and that's a huge advantage over any team you're playing. that's called cheating. >> and the other thing that it raises the counter argument is of course they kicked the colts' butt. they would have won, anyway. that's probably true. but this is the one time they got caught. very rarely do people get caught on the first try, whether it's steroids deflating in sports whether it's cork bats. people typically don't get caught the first time. i'm wondering in a close game he won by a touchdown or last second drive is it possible those footballs were deflated? >> that mental advantage is massive. >> guys we got to go. stick around. we certainly know where you two stand on this one. talk about another important topic straight after a quick break. still to come president obama shaking up his travel plans at the very last minute. he's headed to saudi arabia. we'll discuss that next. [ female announcer ] we help make secure financial tomorrows a reality for over 19 million people. [ susan ] my promotion allowed me to start investing for my retirement. transamerica made it easy. [ female announcer ] everyone has a moment when tomorrow becomes real. transamerica. transform

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president obama will shorten

an official state visit to india next week. he will travel to saudi arabia to pay respects to the deceased king of saudi arabia. this highlights how important saudi arabia is to u.s. policy in the middle east. let's talk about this more with legal analyst mel robbins. joining me political commentators ben ferguson and mark lamont hill. ben, let me begin with you. yes, the president is going. yes, this comes on the heels of him not going to paris for the unity rally which he was heavily criticized for. this is very different. wie talking about saudi arabia where yes, it's a very big important alley to the u.s. it's also a country where a blogger was flogged for stating his opinions. there are also huge human rights concerns there on multiple fronts especially when it comes to women. should this be taken into account? >> well i'm sure they would like to take it into account. but there's one main reason why they won't. and that word is oil.

they're the largest crude exporter. there's another reason. we've been allies of theirs since 1945. they're a very strategic partner in an extremely unstable region. and we also need them ironically to help us in fighting isis. you know one thing about the human rights violations poppy, in addition to everything you've already listed human rights watch has said that thesaudis beheaded 19 people the same month james foley was beheaded. this goes to bloggers and women and how they're treating nonviolent criminals like people smuggling drugs. >> mark should the president be going out of his way to make this trip keeping in the context we need saudi arabia for as much stability as possible in the region? >> well the president should make the trip. i've never been of the mindset that we have to agree with people entirely. or that we can only meet with people if their good guys. i think that's a problematic

cowboy-like foreign policy approach that we've taken. mel said something that sort of confused me though. i agree with her that saudi arabia plays a very strategic role. but i'm not sure if we should appeal to saudi arabia to fight isis if we know that saudi arabia has executed far more people than isis. as disgusting as despicable as isis is 87 people were beheaded by saudi arabia last year in addition to women not being able to drive, vote conduct business et cetera in addition to the lack of freedom of the press, et cetera. it seems to me that the united states has a very problematic practice historically of claiming moral outrage against certain entities at the same time ail lying themselves with other people who could very arguably have worse records. and we do that all throughout the middle east. that's why i think it's so bizarre. saad saudi arabia's execution policies were identical to isis beheading, stealing going down the list same penalty as saudi arabia. one is judicial one is just

messed up. >> ben? >> i think it is a complicated certainly relationship. you've seen every democrat and republican consistently say we need to have this relationship. and the real reason is because you have to have some sort of stable region in that part of the world. you also need to have flyover protection so that if you do have to go into battle against isis or when it was iraq or iran or whatever it may be in the future that relationship is important. plus the suez canal is another important line of business in that part of the world. and unfortunately you don't always get to get what you want out of people. you don't always get what they want out of you as well. it's a complicated matter but it is one part of the region which is stabilized. and they have been helpful to us in the past dealing with terrorism. and that's something that's a vitally important complicated relationship they think we need. >> that's debatable. >> hardly. >> it's debatable. many people would argue that much of the funding that goes toward isis has come from

private funding of saudi princes. the religious impulses that inform what isis does comes right out of saudi arabia. so you could argue that in some ways saudi arabia has been a frenemy much more than a friend. >> if you pull out of there an don't have relationship with saudi arabia that puts america and our national security i think at much more risk than it would if we do have relationship with someone that i'm not saying is a great set of people or a great leadership by any means. but over the history, if you look back to sort of the last 30 years, the relationship with them has been pivotal in many of our interests in the war on terror as well. >> mel, so given that given that -- and important point made here right? we don't have to not meet with them because we don't agree on every front. but mel, given that there is a new king. given the same family but similar leadership. but given there is a new person in power, what would you like to hear from the president in his private meetings with the new

king on some of those human rights fronts? or is this not the time to address that? >> you know i personally think first of all it's important that you show up. secondly if you're showing up and you're actually trying to create a relationship with somebody that will hopefully have a long-term benefit, you got to remember in addition to the problems we've been talking about -- and i think there's no doubt that saudi arabia is concerned about isis it is a point where the two countries, saudi arabia and the united states have a shared interest. you also have yemen now in control by a pro-iranian group. and we are far from having any kind of control yet in terms of iran and their desire to continue to get enriched your ran uranium. you don't press it as the major point. you develop a voip. over time it becomes one of the things you start to argue and ask for. >> here's my only issue.

i don't desisagree necessarily with what you're saying. >> quickly. >> i'm saying we feign indig nation and outrage and moral high ground when we want to invade and destroy the middle east saying these crazy arabs and muslims are dehumanizing women. when it serves our interests we don't care. let's be honest about our own foreign policy and what it can mean in the middle east. >> thank you, panel. we'll be back on the other side of the break. ♪you're not the only one♪ ♪listen up forefathers♪ ♪let them have some fun♪ ♪some fun♪ ♪some fun.♪

all right. the sundance film festival is under way. one of the movies being aired is a documentary called "3 1/2 minutes" about the fatal shooting of teenager jordan davis in the so-called loud music trial. our stephanie elam has more. >> reporter: hi poppy. when you take a look at "3 1/2 minutes" it's examining that time right after jordan davis died and the trial of michael dunn that we all saw play out as the loud music crime. joining me now are the parents of jordan davis as well as the director of the film mark silver. when you look at this movie --

and as a parent it's very painful to sit there and watch what you went through. but why did you decide -- start with you, ron -- why did you decide you wanted to be part of this documentary? >> for me it helps the healing process. because of the fact that several people across this country and the world that didn't see or doesn't know what happened with the story of jordan davis. i thought that this not only shows that there's a lot of racism that is still left in this country that we have to deal with that we have to have a conversation with. and also the court drama of what happened to jordan in court. because the court part of it -- was the trial of michael dunn. everybody thinks it's the trial of jordan davis but it wasn't. jordan davis, they wasn't even allowed to call him a victim. legislated that. the judge said you can't call him a victim just have to call his name jordan davis. that hurt bad. because jordan davis was a victim of what michael dunn did. so i want people to realize that in the court cases it's not always fair to your family

member. but these are some of the things that we have to do to make sure that the system was fair to us. >> stephanie elam thank you for that. coming up deflategate has thrown a shadow over the nfl's biggest game. the billion dollar extravaganza known as the super bowl. could it tarnish the legacies in two of the game's biggest, coach bill belichick and quarterback tom brady? it's the family plan families are flocking to. now at t-mobile, get 4 lines for a $100. with unlimited talk, text, and up to 10gb of 4g lte data. switch to t-mobile. get 4 lines for a $100 today. when the flu hits, it's a really big deal. the aches. the chills. the fever. an even bigger deal? everything you miss out on... family pizza night.

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hi everyone. you're in the cnn news room. i'm poppy harlow joining you live in new york. we are following new developments this hour on that scandal that threatens to overshad dote super bowl. a short time ago new england patriots coach bill belichick defiantly defended his team and called what's become known as deflategate a