rule book says if there's a vie lace tampering with the ball is a $25,000 fine. for peds for an athlete like canty or anybody else caught with peds, that's probably a four-game suspension. i think if somebody went behind the back of the officials, that's a real scandal. we have a serious topic here. but if it just is happenstance and the nfl can't figure it out with its csi investigation and they figure out there's something real going on you beat them up but if you can't find anything it's probably a $25,000 fine. >> all right. guys thank you so much for join us. rachel no one better to sit next to in all this. >> absolutely. phoenix, here we come. >> special report from rachel at the super bowl next weekend. tune in for that. thanks everyone for watching. i will be back here 7:00 eastern with a full hour of "newsroom." smerconish begins right now. welcome to the program.

i'm michael smerconish coming to you from washington, d.c. with breaking news opinion an abrupt change of plans by the president of the united states. mr. obama and the first lady left for a state visit to indonesia and india this morning but that plan has now changed. the president will cut short his trip to india and go to saudi arabia to pay his respects following the death of saudi king abdullah. the plan had been for vice president joe biden to go. now he'll stay home. so the real question of course is why? travels for the death of a head of state. the last was nelson mandela. the reason he's facing a crisis in the middle east. not only is saudi arabia getting a new leader but yemen this week descended into chaos with the president apparently out after a coup by a shiite group and yemen of course is the new al qaeda headquarters. then news from our so-called

strongest ally israel prime minister benjamin netanyahu, so mad at president obama, but he's coming to the united states to address congress even though the president asked him not to. i can't think of anyone better to help us understand this moment than aaron david miller distinguished scholar at the woodrow wilson national center and former adviser to to several former secretaries of state on the arab/israeli peace process. read the tea leaves pip get the impression this is not just a function of the president saying i'm in the neighborhood, i gesuess i'll attend. >> clearly, michael, it wasn't part of the original plan. some smart adviser, let's hope it was the president, basically said, look i'm in the neighborhood i've been to india twice now, historic for a president, i've got a critically important relationship with saudi arabia i didn't show up in paris, i'm being hammered for abdicating my responsibilities by the republicans and others for leading from behind, a lot of important issue, yemen is in crisis it's right next door i'm going to go see keane salmaning

salman. >> is part of the motivation to send benjamin netanyahu a message given the angst that now exists between the united states and israel to let the israelis know hey, saudi arabia is as key an ally to us in that part of globe as is israel? >> you know, i think that would probably be too clever pi halfby half. not like the u.s./saudi relationship is in the best of shape. there are fundamental differences. paradoxically, the same things that divide president obama from benjamin netanyahu have caused serious tensions in the relationship between the saudis. our willingness to accept mubarak's transition or perhaps to edge him out, the fact that we're trying to cut a deal with the iranians that the israelis and saudis fear and support for assisi, the new president of egypt, which both the saudis and the israelis think is the right course. all these things suggest there are serious tensions also within

our relationship with saudi arabia. so no i don't think this was an intentional willful poke in the eye or a slap but rest assured, the president will be criticized for, quote, unquote, snubbing the prime minister of israel and meeting with the new king of saudi arabia, a country that frankly to say the least doesn't share our values with respect to for human the president now meets with the new king of saudi arabia increases the pressure on president obama to meet with netanyahu when he comes to the united states? or will the mind-set still be one of that was a poke in my eye, i don't need to meet with bibby netten bibi netanyahu when he's here? >> i think the chattering classes including myself will continue to debate this but no i think there's a separate issue between obama and netanyahu that the boehner invitation combined with long-standing suspicions israeli elections really does suggest that the administration

wants to stay clear on this one. and frankly, no meeting with the prime minister of israel, even from his perspective, is petbetter than a bad meeting. >> what strikes me here to my untrained eye is the diechotomy that exists between saudi arabia and israel and because this king is 79 it will be transferred yet again with what's going on in yemen. will you speak to that contrast? >> i think you broke the code michael. whether the arab spring which has now frankly become a winter or worse, it's been made much better than the phony republics. morocco, jordan saudi, qatar, oman the uae, which is now emerging as a key american ally and block in the gulf all of these states in large part because of money, some of them have it in large part because their rulers are less cruel and

less extrack tif than the iraqis, the syrian, and the egyptian egyptian they all have maintained a measure of stability and represent frankly, despite all the imperfections and the fact we don't share many of these values with some of these authoritarian regime they really are partners with the united states. the fact the president will be in saudi arabia a state that its critics believe is unstable at a time when right next door yemen is in the process of failure big time really makes your point and contrasts the reality that despite all of the instability there are processes in the middle east and states that can weather the worst kind of regional transitions. >> i said to a friend an intelligent friend this week, that we're witnessing a period of unprecedented unrest in the middle east and his response to me was to say, no this is a reflection of news cycle. he wasn't being critical but he was saying we have the means now of being more up to date, better

informed on events that are transpiring around the globe. which of those two do you believe, that it's unprecedented unrest or we're just better informed? >> i think a 24/7 media psych until which everything is elevated to the same level of importance which is frankly breaking news is clear. and it gives us the capacity and the sense that the world is in crisis. but let's be clear. that what's happening in the middle east in the last four years is extraordinary. regional transformation like this occurs maybe once a century. no this is a fundamental transition largely negative, most of the moving parts in this region are running in the wrong direction. it's a generational problem. we're going to be in this region perennially and it's going to be in crisis. and our real problem, michael, is that we can't transform it and we can't leave it. and we are going to have to try to manage to protect american interests as effectively and as adroitly as we possibly can.

>> aaron david miller as always thanks for your expertise. >> always a pleasure michael. >> thank you. coming up -- deny deny deny. that's what's coming out of foxborough massachusetts, after new england patriots head coach bill belichick and quarterback tom brady both say they had nothing to do with so-called deflategate. but are their denials just a bunch of hot air? and the new movie "american sniper" shattered box office records, but was the man behind the war drama a liar? i know... this third shift is rough... it's just a few more weeks max! what are you doing up? it's late. i just wanted to have breakast wih you.

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welcome back. deflategate. everybody wants to know who lets air out of tom brady's footballs. the nfl broke its silence condition firming the balls were underinflated but has not figured out how it happened or if anyone did anything wrong. they've spoke on the dozens of

people connected with the case but as of thursday had not spoke on the brady. he told a packed press conference he'd not broken any rules. >> is tom brady a cheater? >> i don't believe so. i mean i feel like i've always played within the rules. i would never do anything to break the rules. so. >> i'm not sure that press conference got us any closer to the truth. i watched and i took to my twitter account with frustration. i said among other things jesus, will somebody at least ask him what did you know and when did you know it? another of my tweets. i am missing helen thomas in the front row. wish she were questioning brady right now. i know she's gone but she could really hold president's feet to the fire. one more of my tweets. wait so, he thanks the people who prepped the balls but a moment ago he said he doesn't know who handles them? come on. ask a follow-up. joining me former nfl head of officiating mike pereira. he's revolutionized football coverage as a rules analyst for fox sports. and former patriot tight end and

boston radio host jermaine wiggins, who knows brady very well. as a tight end you'll remember he caught a key brady pass in brady's fist super bowl win. mike let me begin with you. to the uninitiated, i'm holding one that's infacilitated at 13.5 and another that's under at 10.5. it's very hard to tell the difference. here at cnn we've been passing the footballs and asking people in a blind test can you tell which one is within the reg? is this a big deal? >> well, be careful when you pass the footballs. come on now, there's a lot of expensive equipment there. i do think it is a big deal because really, you know, it's about the integrity of the game. look, it's not a player safety football-type act that you may get disciplined for, but this is the integrity of the game and while everybody has said the same thing, that two pounds of pressure is hard to recognize, you know the fact is two pounds maybe to a quarterback

does have an effect and certainly the aspect of it may be in cold weather. >> how about the officials? >> i think from that standpoint yes. >> how about the officials who -- >> neve know. >> -- touch and place the ball. why wouldn't the officials have a trained touch that they could have figured this out? >> you know, they did it before the game and they actually when they pressure test the ball, they mark it put one of their referee's marks on the game, and really they don't sit there and squeeze them and try to feel if they're properly inflated. i always say these lugs that wear the stripes aren't the same guys that go into the produce store and squeeze avocados to see if they're ripe. they're not used to squeezing things like this. again, i think it's very hard to tell. i think once they test them at the beginning then they figure the clubs, the ball people anybody that might have any possibility of touching the balls have enough integrity that that won't be compromised. but obviously there was some type of breakdown here that needs to be found out.

>> jermaine i know you're supportive of tom brady in this whole instance. i have to tell you that the press conference for me it just didn't pass the smell test. and for this reason -- if i were brady and my credibility had been called into question i would be tearing apart that locker room to find out what the hell went on here and who knows what the real story is. instead, he came out of the press conference and suggested that he hadn't asked any questions, he wasn't sure who handled the footballs, he couldn't really speak to the chain of custody. did that not rub you the wrong way? >> no it didn't rub me the wrong way because clearly, you know tom brady is a guy that he wants to make sure he's very calculated in the questions that he's being asked. you have to understand you have to make sure you don't say anything that might jeopardize what's going on here the investigation. so he comes out, to me the biggest thing he came out and the one statement i took away from this is he put himself on a ledge and said i had nothing to do with altering the footballs. the nfl then came out and gave us some insight to the

investigation and said the balls are kept in the referee's office until ten minutes up until kickoff time, which then they go out on the football field. and you said clearly that you guys were passing around a football. my question is this that if you're a referee and you hand that will football on every single play wouldn't you notice the difference after the first possession when the patriots have the football and say, hold on, these balls feel a little underinflated, let's stop the game and see what's going on? we don't know if officials even checked the footballs -- >> jermaine i have to tell you, unlike you, i didn't play in the nfl. my claim to fame is i held for extra points in high school. that's as far as my football career took me. brady tries to down play what kind of a deal this really is but it's brady who lobbied the nfl for the rule change. i think it was 2006 where each team got to pick their own football. so tom, which is it? if it's not a big deal why doesn't everybody play with the same ball? >> well it's really not a big

deal this whole underinflate because it doesn't give you an vng. it doesn't make you a better quarterback because you have a football that's underinflated by two pounds of psi. if that was the question, tim tebow would still be in the nfl and all these other quarterbacks that fizzled out. it's not about the underinflation of the football. when you look at it, what brady wanted to do changing the rules was saying hey, as quarterbacks we should have the ability to have the footballs, pick the ones that we want to use, and use our own footballs, not to say, hey, why do we have to all use the same footballs? i think the thing he was trying to lobby is that each quarterback would be able to pick the footballs and then those footballs would be decided which ones are going to be used on game day. >> but mike pereira, it has to be a big deal because if it weren't there would be no standard and we'd let each team go out there and play at whatever inflation rate they choose to. >> listen i was part of that petition that was sent in by

league quarterbacks and you're talking about not just trinidad and tobago and peyton man and all those that sent in a petition to the competition committee to use their own footballs. and we got it. the committee got it and understood and thought that it was a fair thing to do to let the quarterbacks -- they -- listen when i was on the field back in '96 and '97, we got brand-new balls in the locker room and i had to sit in the shower -- i was the rookie -- with a wet cloth and rub all of the red wax off the ball and brush them and prepare them myself. so the competition committee said okay let's let the teams prepare their own football let's let the quarterbacks throw them during the week. and i think that was wise. and that includes the super bowl by the way. but i disagree with jermaine that it's not a big thing here, you know because while it may be hard for the layman to touch and feel the two pounds i do think quarterbacks have all said quarterbacks have said that it does make a difference.

and again, you know, it's kind of like taping, you know the -- on the field taping the team's calling and plays, which we had as spygate back in 2007. it's the integrity issue of the game. they're breaking a rule and to me this all boils down to -- >> jermaine i'm going to give you the final word. look you're a super bowl champion. now you talk about this on the radio. you must have a theory as to what went on here. why would the pressure have been proper 2 1/4 hours before the game and by halftime 11 of the 12 balls are outside the parameters? what do you think happened? >> well first off, what i think is happened is i don't know exactly, but my theory is -- the nfl said the footballs are brought out ten minutes prior to kickoff. off ten-minute window to let out air. so to me it's about the officials. who knows. maybe the officials never check the gauge because it clearly said you can't tell the

difference between 13 psi and 10.5 ps soishgs they might have felt them, that ball's fine, that ball's fine rather than going through 48 balls and having to put a gauge in. maybe it was just, hey, these balls are good and now they go out and it's brought to their attention because if it wasn't would we've been talking about this? probably not. it was brought to their attention. now they go in and they measure the footballs, they check the air gauge and they see they're a little bit underinflated. the thing that i would say, and i understand mike was an official for a long time but he knows as better than anybody else a lot of teams in the national football league do a lot of things to bend the rules and go over. we heard aaron rodgers say he goes over the allotted 13.5 to get his footballs a little bit heavier. so you're telling me that he's never played a game with a football that was overinflated? i just don't see that. a lot of teams do a lot of different things. >> got to shut it down but thank you, what a great conversation. mike pereira, jermaine wiggins, thank you, gentlemen.

up next, the first major presidential cattle call of the year. all eyes on today's iowa freedom summit and the high-profile possible 2016 presidential hopefuls including chris christie. will the brash new jersey governor be a hit in front of the ultraconservative crowd? and a convicted billionaire pedophile's alleged sex ring. new allegations that two high-profile men are accused of having sex with underage girls. isle speak to one of them right here. when the flu hits, it's a really big deal. the aches. the chills. the fever. an even bigger deal? everything you miss out on... family pizza night. the big game. or date night. why lose out to the flu any longer than you have to? prescription tamiflu can help you get better 1.3 days faster. that's 30% sooner. call your doctor right away. and attack the flu virus at its source with prescription tamiflu. tamiflu is fda approved to treat the flu in people

2 weeks and older whose flu symptoms started within the last two days. before taking tamiflu tell your doctor if you're pregnant, nursing, have serious health conditions or take other medicines. if you develop an allergic reaction, a severe rash, or signs of unusual behavior stop taking tamiflu and call your doctor immediately. children and adolescents in particular may be at an increased risk of seizures, confusion or abnormal behavior. the most common side effects are mild to moderate nausea and vomiting. call your doctor right away. don't lose another moment to the flu. when there's flu, tamiflu. i am never getting married. we're never having kids. mmm-mmm. we are never moving to the suburbs. we are never having another kid. i'm pregnant. i am never letting go. for all the nevers in life state farm is there.

welcome back to the program. the story i'm about to stem cell is not suitable for young children so fair warning. it involves a tangled web of sex and lies featuring famous people everyone from england's prince andrew to famed criminal defense attorney alan dershowitz. both are alleged to have had sex with girls or young women provided to them by a pedophile billionaire convicted sex offender jeffrey epstein who used to be a hedge fund manager known for making large political donations to bill clinton among others. new court papers reveal explicit details about epstein's so-called lolita express, a private plane in which he allegedly forced young women to have sex with his well-connected friends. the court documents are part of a civil case brought by a young woman who says she was forced to have sex at age 16 with prince andrew and with alan dershowitz.

the prince vehemently denies the allegations. so does dershowitz who has vowed to seek disbarment of the accuser's attorneys. alan dershowitz joins me now. professor, i think context is important in this case. am i right in saying this is a lawsuit in which you are not a named party but nevertheless you were named as having had sex with an underage woman? >> yes, i'm not a party and it was just like a drive-by shooting. they just said oh by the way, prince andrew and alan dershowitz had sex with this woman who i never met, don't know couldn't have been in the places that she said i was at the time. for example, she said i was in jeffrey epstein's ranch. i was there once for an hour with my wife and daughter and two friends. the private island i was there for one day with my wife my daughter a professor of harvard, four members of his family. it's literally impossible that it could have happened and the woman knows that and that's why she's refused to come on your show or any show and repeat her

false allegations in public because she knows i could sue her. they've hidden behind the litigation privilege, put it in a document didn't give me an opportunity to respond, forced me into speaking out in the court of public opinion, and then sued me for defamation for telling the truth. >> so now this week the now 31-year-old woman as filed an affidavit in which she affirms at the end, subject she says to a perjury charge and it's loaded with graphic detail. i apologize for reading this. >> please fiction is always good. have at it. >> harvard law professor alan dershowitz was around epstein frequently. dershowitz was so comfortable with the sex that was going on that he would even come and chat with epstein while i was giving oral sex to epstein. >> well, you know anybody who knows me knows how preposterous this is. i never smoked a marijuana cigarette in my life snorted cocaine, stopped harvard from

serving sherry to students because i don't believe they should break the law. i'm sexually very personal and private. the idea of me standing around with a client -- what were we talking about while he was getting oral -- it's so preposterous it's almost as stupid as her saying she pralted in a sex orgy with steven hawkings while on jeffrey's island. and a range of other preposterous activities. >> i also had sex with dershowitz at epstein's zorro ranch in new mexico in the massage room off the indoor pool area which was still being painted. have you ever been in that room? >> no. of course not. i was only in the house while it was being built once in the presence of my wife my daughter two friends, and was there just looking around the house. no one was there. i had never, ever seen young women around jeffrey epstein. >> surely you have wondered what could be if it's not true what could be -- >> it's not. >> -- the possible motivation?

because, professor, to put your names in these pleadings is to catch a tiger by his tail. you know that one of the smartest legal minds in the world is going to come after you. so i began by asking you context because whether this took place doesn't matter to the underlying litigation. why the hell would they put your name in this? >> well they profiled me. what they were looking for was somebody who was jeffrey epstein's lawyer and helped strike the bargain which they didn't like but also knew jeffrey epstein. i knew him essentially as an academic a colleague before any of these allegations came up. but i was in his house once on the island. i was in his ranch for one hour. they were looking for somebody who fit the profile, a lawyer who helped him in his case but also knew him and could conceivably have been in a situation. but they picked the wrong guy. i'm just not that kind of person. and they had to know that. >> gawker has analyzed the flight logs of jeffrey epstein. >> right. >> they say that whereas you

suggested you always travel in the company of your wife -- >> i never said that. i sald i generally travel. my wife loves to come with me. i love to travel with her. we're leaving tomorrow night for a trip to a foreign destination. she's with me. when i speak, i like her to come with me. she doesn't come with me on every trip. she was with me on two trips. >> let me at least finish the question. they say according to the manifests your name appears but never does her name appear on the same flights where alan dershowitz was flying you get the likes of hazel, claire and tatiana. do you know any of those three women? i know tatiana. she was about 25 years old, jeffrey epstein's girlfriend. she was a serious person. the other two names are unfamiliar. they're probably the stewardesses. i was never on the airplane with anybody who looked underage or even close to it. >> did you ever fly on jeffrey epstein's plane with former president clinton? >> no i didn't. i flew to a dinner with shimon peres and senator glenn, but i never, ever flew with any young

women and i certainly didn't have sex on an airplane. i am not a member of the mile high club. that's just not me. >> do you worry that if there are portions of this which are true with regard to prince andrew you'll be sullied in the process even if alan dershowitz did nothing improper? >> no i'm not worried. look there's a picture of prince andrew with this woman. there's a diary. he has his own situation. i have my own. there's no picture of me. i'm not in any diary. i was never in the same place with her to my knowledge and therefore i have nothing to worry about. when you're completely innocent and have nothing to hide it's really easy to defend yourself. you don't have to think about what you're saying or whether you could be contradicted. just tell the truth. that's what i've been doing. >> am i correct in saying this is it for you, that professor alan dershowitz after this interview, will have nothing further to say publicly and you'll do your arguing in a court of law? >> i don't intend to have any further interviews unless other

lies are circulated about me. i will always respond to lies. but i'm satisfied with the state of the record now. i've put everything forward. i've not ducked a single question. i've never ducked a deposition. i am happy to be deposed. i want to make sure she's deposed first because she's the accuser. but i think i'm saying my last word here and i'm sure that any reasonable person in the american public at this point understands that i have been the victim of a totally false charge. >> the jane doe who we're referring to said she's been watching you on television calling her a liar he is lying by denying that he had sex with me. respond to that. >> i challenge her to repeat that to you, to repeat that in public. she shouldn't be hiding behind her lawyers. she is ducking depositions, by the way. we've tried to locate her. we know she lives in colorado. we think we know where she is. her lawyers refuse to accept a summons on her behalf. they're trying to hide her because they know if she gets on that witness stand and is

cross-examined her entire story with crumble. >> thank you, professor alan dershowitz. >> thank you. after a quick break, a busy weekend for republicans eyeing the white house. many attending a major conservative gathering in iowa. a key campaign state. but mitt romney is not invited to a second and equally important event for potential candidates. and "american sniper" is a blockbuster movie, but serious questions about the truthfulness of claims made by sharpshooter chris kyle. the co-author of that book joins me.

everybody's waiting for hillary clinton to decide if she's running. but there's already a stampede among gop candidates. mitt romney considering a third run for the white house met with top aides in boston to plot his next moves. senator marco rubio of florida who's long hinted at running in 2016 has hired a new finance director and is making a fund-raising swing through california next week. he's huddling with advisers this weekend in miami. but interestingly enough romney rube coe, and even jeb bush are all skipping today's

iowa freedom summit, a major conservative gathering others seriously considering a bid such as new jersey governor chris christie texas senator ted cruz wisconsin governor scott walker are all attending. we're joined by david challion cnn's political director, in des moines. david, in san francisco last night, jeb bush told auto dealers that immigration is the engine of economic vitality. i said to myself if he were to come and utter those words today at this group in iowa it wouldn't go over so well. >> right. michael, that's a really brilliant observation on your part. nobody's going to say that on this stage behind me here today. what you've got here today in iowa you've got about 1,200 activists who are really excited to be at what is basically the starting line for the 2016 presidential race. and you know better than anyone that the folks out here in iowa take that role very seriously of being first in the nation and they're going to begin the

process of poking and prodding the candidates. that's what today is all about. but you're right to notice that sort of split because you've got obviously anti-immigration reformer steve caine on the conservative wing of the party as a host known for his controversial comments around immigration, certainly not where jeb bush is on the topic, but every one of these candidates that takes the stage today will have to navigate that as they begin the process of wooing these iowa conservative activists. these are the folk who is show up to the caucuses. every candidate on the stage today is going to want to start making a really good impression with these folks. without mitt romney here without jeb bush here, the only establishment wing guy here michael, is chris christie the governor of new jersey and watching how he gets received by this crowd will be fascinating. >> not only am i interested to see how he's received david, i'm interested to see how far to the right does he pivot to try

to curry favor with a conservative crowd that many believe is necessary for a candidate to win a republican nomination. >> well as you know the most successful presidential candidates in this process are ones that can start up the process at this very early time and stick with the same sort of messaging that goes all the way through the general election not just the nomination. this was true of george w. bush successful candidate, president obama, successful candidacy in 2008. i agree you'll be listening to see are some of these folks going to take positions or sort of color their remarks in a way that may make a general election a little more difficult. chris christie has said he won't play that game but i agree, let's see what happens when he takes the stage. >> david, one other question. not only are there big goings-on today in iowa relative to the republican nomination, but the coke brothers are having a primary of sorts of their own. >> they are out in palm springs, california p coke brothers are bringing together some of their biggest donors this-in their network and starting to

introduce them to some potential presidential candidates. they've got a trio of senators there, rand paul ted cruz marco rubio. tomorrow night will be on stage in a forum there. and, listen this is a clear signal. the coke brothers have put their money behind sort of framing elections in the last couple cycles. now they're trying to play a little more of an active role in helping the party sort of find its way to its nominee. >> david, thank you from des moines. quick break, but when we come back this other republican gathering, top-secret oiled by bill money and full of questions about who is not on the invitation list. plus "american sniper," new questions about the navy s.e.a.l. at the heart of the story. i'll talk to the man who helped write the book that became a hit movie. >> got some sort of savior complex? >> all these guy, they know your name.

when the flu hits, it's a really big deal. the aches. the chills. the fever. an even bigger deal? everything you miss out on... family pizza night. the big game. or date night. why lose out to the flu any longer than you have to? prescription tamiflu can help you get better 1.3 days faster. that's 30% sooner. call your doctor right away. and attack the flu virus at its source with prescription tamiflu. tamiflu is fda approved to treat the flu in people 2 weeks and older whose flu symptoms started within the last two days. before taking tamiflu tell your doctor if you're pregnant, nursing, have serious health conditions or take other medicines. if you develop an allergic reaction, a severe rash, or signs of unusual behavior stop taking tamiflu and call your doctor immediately. children and adolescents in particular may be at an increased risk of seizures, confusion or abnormal behavior. the most common side effects are mild to moderate nausea and vomiting. call your doctor right away. don't lose another moment to the flu.

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because it's invitation only the coke meeting is important. they donate enormous sums. their network consists of hundreds of other wealthy donors so every republican wants to get

close to them. many considering a white house run in 2016 are on the guest list including jeb bush who's not expected to attend. mitt romney is not invited. ken vogue sell the chief investigative reporter fer politico and has written about the influence of charles and david coke and their influence on american politics. as a matter of fact ken, the opening chapter of your book "big money" talks about you trying unsuccessfully to crash a coke brothers seminar in 2013. they escorted you out. but there's more openness this year. maybe because of the way you wrote about it. >> well i don't know how much credit i get, but certainly the cokes have had this reputation for years of being sort of secretive and opaque in the way that they try to influence the political process and try to steer money into it. i think they are making a concerted effort to change ta reputation and one of the things they'll be doing in palm

springs -- first of all, the fact they acknowledge they're having this gathering is new, but in addition they'll be providing a live stream to media outlets of this panel that will feature the three u.s. senators thinking about running for president in 2016 -- cruz rubio, and rand paul. that is new and that's something that i think does show a willingness to be a bit more transparent and to engage a little more with this political world that they are so clearly an influential player in. >> here's what occurs to me. the cameras that will now be permitted will be trained on the speakers. you just identified the three senators. who's in the audience? tell me about who the people are that are attracted and invited to a coke brothers event. >> that is another area they've had a penchant for secrecy. they did not want their donors to be known and their donors primarily gave money into these nonprofit groups that did not have to disclose the identities the sizes of contributions, the

identities of donors, the dates on which they gave. however, even that is changing a little bit both in that they started a superpac the coke brothers network and this organization, umbrella organization called freedom partners started a superpac in their run-up to the midterms that raised a bunch of money and was hugely influential. >> tell me somebody in the audience. >> sure. so because of the superpac we know some of the names of folk who is will be in that audience. ronnie cameron, arkansas poultry magnate, stanley hubbard, a minnesota telecommunications billionaire, buy i don't knows warner a nebraska trucking magnate. folks in mostly older industries sort of industrialists, not unlike thing coke brothers themselves who are largely owner, largely white and very concerned about the direction of the country, who want to spend some money and are willing in some cases to put their names on their checks to try to shape the direction of our politics. >> i watched barbara walters interviewing david coke at the

end of the year and he revealed that his politics on social issues are frankly quite lib wall p liberal. the issues discussed at a seminar like tomorrow night, only financial issues or social issues as well? >> primarily financial. that's how coke brothers have framed their desire to be involved in politics. they are primarily interested in bringing in what they see as reckless run-away government spend, expansion of government and that sometimes does put them at odds with the republican party. they famously opposed the iraq war as sort of reckless foreign intervention and expensive, and they favor -- i interviewed david coke around the 2012 republican nomination. he said he favored scaling back some u.s. intervention and u.s. presence in the middle east. that is way different than the party line the orthodoxy on foreign policy. their donor base is not homogeneous. there are some folk who is probably would qualify as hawk

but the brothers focus on what their organization focuses on during these seminars is very much just the fiscal issues. >> quick final question. ten-second answer. do the brothers necessarily agree on how they see the world? >> not only necessarily do they not, but they might not agree on who they see as the best presidential candidate in 2016. >> ken, like any other brothers i imagine. thank you for being here. >> all right. when we come back they called chris kyle the legend the most successful american sniper ever weather lots of incredible stories. but many of them just don't check out. we'll talk with a man who helped him write "american sniper" next.

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let me ask you a question chris. would you be spried if i told you that the navy has credited you with over 160 kills? >> bradley cooper in "american sniper." like an on-target sniper's bullet that box office sensation is a big hit.

the film is the story of chris kyle a former navy s.e.a.l. who served four tours in iraq. in his book also called "american sniper" he claimed 160 confirmed kills. two years ago he was murdered by a veteran he was trying to help, and now contributes have him in the crosshairs questioning some of kyle's stories, and he loved to tell stories. one of them how he climbed to the top of the superdome in new orleans after hurricane katrina and picked off dozens of armed bad guys or how he killed two armed men at a texas gas station who tried to steal his truck. and his toir about punching out former minnesota governor jesse ventura. ventura says it never happened. he sued and won. and reporters looking into the other two stories haven't been able to corroborate them. what's going on here? does it affect how we look at kyle's story? i'm joined by one of kyle's co-authors jim defeliz. thanks for join us. >> my pleasure. thank you.

>> congratulations on the success of the movie that is based on your book. did bradley cooper nail it? i mean you knew chris kyle. how close was the adaptation? >> i have to tell you that the first time i saw the movie there were many many moment where is i'm watching the screen and i'm thinking my god, i know that's bradley cooper but that looks like chris. he has him everything his voice, his mannerisms. he nailed it. >> i regard chris kyle as a patriot. and i tell you that up front because i want to ask you a couple questions that i don't want you putting me in a category with michael moore. so let me begin with this -- was he a b.s.-er? >> no absolutely not. chris was very, very straightforward

straightforward, very honest. what he said you could take to the bank. >> how do you square that with some of the stories told by chris kyle that just don't check out? i mean at the top of the list the story about katrina and him in response to the government taking up a position on the roof of the louisiana superdome and shooting as many as 30 looters. there's just no factual basis to support that story. >> here's the problem, michael. you're talking about stories that -- you know, that's all hearsay. this person says that chris said it to them, you know i don't know what the context was. that's not in the book. chris never told me a story about that so i don't really -- i don't know. so, you know the problem is that there's been a lot of controversy about the book because the book is very straightforward and honest about what a warrior has to do and has to feel in war.

a lot of people criticize it and what they're really doing is criticizing war, which frankly is a good thing. we shouldn't get into wars easily. we should hate war. but in order to succeed at war, you have to think like a warrior. >> that's not where i'm coming from. i approach this completely independent of whether we should have been in iraq and we should be in afghanistan. i simply want to know what the truth is. and it just seems to me when they're talking about pat tillman, whether we're talking about jessica lynch, any number of other instances, a genuine american story of heroism nevertheless gets embellished. chris kyle told a story, was routinely, according to so many account, telling a story about how two guys wanted to steal his truck and he killed them. and there's just no record of that whatsoever. and of course as everybody knows in the book itself although he doesn't identify jesse ventura by name and, you know, you wrote

it with him, he calls him scruff face a $1.8 million defamation jury verdict in support of jesse ventura. and it leaves me wondering well okay, how much of the story can i believe if each of these instances is just not based or grounded in fact? >> see now, there's the problem. you said it was a defamation judgment and the reality is it was not a defamation judgment. part of it was. part of it was something else. someone says one thing, it goes on the internet something else happens, somebody else says whatever. now, you know, in that case, you know the jury's split. there was something like a dozen witnesses who said it happened. and, you know, the jury split. you know i have a feeling that if this had been in texas maybe the split would have gone the other way. >> jesse ventura said before the trial if chris kyle would simply take it back and let people know

it's not true he wouldn't have proceeded. look i don't agree with so much of jesse ventura. he's a 9/11 truther, whatever the hell that is but in this instance i feel like the guy was done wrong. you certainly knew when you wrote the words scruff face in the book that chris kyle was talking about ventura, right? >> oh, absolutely. it was chris' decision to not -- chris didn't want to use the names of any s.e.a.l.s or former s.e.a.l.s and we don't throughout the book. you know again, if like i say, you know look at -- go ahead, do the work, look at all the depositions, look at the motions, read the transcript from the trial. >> i think i'd surprise you. i have. i'm an attorney. and i know what defamation is. it encompasses both libel and slander and this was a slanldder verdict if we want to get technical. bottom line sir, i'm thrilled for your success, i regard chris kyle absolutely as a patriot, i thoroughly enjoyed the movie, i

will read the book but all along i'm going to be wondering what's grounded in fact. but thank you for your time. >> you're welcome. >> right back with a final thought. this third shift is rough... it's just a few more weeks max! what are you doing up? it's late. i just wanted to have breakast wih you.

thanks for joining me and who to all those who made the program work we had some great guests today. follow me on twitter if you can

spell smerconish. and please join me tomorrow morning at 9:00 a.m. an noon. i'll be hosting "state of the union." thanks for watching. hope you'll stay with cnn. hi there, everybody. good evening. i'm poppy harlow. you're in the "cnn newsroom." i'm joining you live in new york 7:00 eastern following governments on this hour on the scandal that threatens to overshadow the super bowl. new england patriots coach bill belichick says what everyone is now calling deflategate is a huge waste of time. he also slammed allegations suggesting someone in the patriots camp possibly deflated footballs bending the rules to help the pats win their last game. >> i'm embarrassed the talk about the amount of time that i've put into this relative to the