silicon valley complicated and interesting developing a relationship with sex and drugs. 8:30 tonight. thanks for joining me this evening. smerconish comes up next. we'll be back at 7:00 eastern right here. i'm michael smerconish with breaking news. new information on kayla mueller, the 26-year-old american aid worker who's been held by isis. after almost two years of keeping her capture a secret her family has now gone public after isis claimed the 26-year-old aid worker was killed by a jordanian air strike. but u.s. intelligence officials are skeptical and it turns out they may have new evidence on where kayla has been. cnn correspondent kyung lau is in prescott california. >> reporter: there was a rescue attempt, a daring rescue attempt. and u.s. troops came close to

trying to free kayla mueller as well as other hostages. that happened last july inside syria. u.s. troops attempting this daring escape -- attempt to release these hostages. it failed. this primary hostage in this failed attempt was james foley, a journalist who was later killed by isis. when u.s. troops were there, there was evidence inside those jail cells, some writings scribbled on the walls that is believed to belong to hostages but key to this particular case are some hair strands that were found, and a u.s. official tells us they believe those hair strands belonged to mueller. why is this important? because last july is when that rescue attempt was, michael. what we know is that she was alive as recently as july. michael? >> the statement from kayla's

parents, is it directed towards isis? >> it is a specific address to the captors. they don't directly say isis but clearly that's who they are talking to. what the public statement says is that the parents of who are at this point, michael, trying to stay private. you can see those flashing lights over my shoulder. they're trying to stay away from speaking directly to the cameras. but this statement is directly to the captors say, look we've kept our end of the deal. you told us to keep her name out of the global press, and they've worked with journalists including journalists at cnn to keep her name out of the public sphere. we have known that there is a hostage being held who was a woman. the parents say they kept their end of the deal. they want isis now to reach out to them directly so they can speak privately. they add, michael, that they are hoping their daughter is still alive. >> and finally, kyung, what do we know if anything about a white house role facilitating negotiations or impeding

negotiations? you know that's been an issue in the past with other hostages and you, of course referenced the foley case. >> certainly. you heard that allegation from foley's mother. she aid on our airwaves that she felt that the white house certainly kept her in the dark that they impeded, that she wanted more direct contact, she wanted more of a rescue attempt. we're not hearing any of those specifics from this family but it may be because this family is still hoping that their daughter is alive. we're not hearing anything directly from the white house as well but we expect that that will be bubbling to the surface in the coming weeks. >> kyung lah, thanks for a great report. now let's turn to analyst phil mudd. he spent years at the cia working on counterterrorism and he's been following all of this closely. phil, what do you make of the breaking news that there was apparently a rescue attempt made on kayla mueller? >> one of the things we have to think about, michael, is you're talking about breaking news from

last summer. there's ban lot that's happened since last summer. obviously, we know what happened to journalist through the fall and we know what happened over the last week or so when isis killed that jordanian pilot. i think what's happening now six months later is isis is looking at all the news since ta raid last summer. it's starting to say a week or two ago that they made a mistake, they're now trying to figure out how to change the dynamic in the public conversation by getting away from the news coverage of that jordanian pilot and inserting this woman's name, trying to claim that the jordanians now are responsible for her death. >> you think this is a propaganda effort to deflect attention from the outcry over the video of the burning of that pilot alive? >> that's correct. there's a couple of dynamics here we have to think about. the first obviously is timing, which i just mentioned. the second is the fact that, you know in the arab world when you're dealing with a female hostage, that is an entirely different game. i think from isis' perspective, the murder of a female hostage would be even more significant,

significantly damaging, if you will than murder of the jordanian pilot. so either they're trying to portray themselves as people who were the victims of a jordanian strike that killed a female or i think there's another outcome that i don't want to get into and that is i think there's a chance that they might have killed her earlier and that they would use this story, this propaganda story about an air strike as cover for what they have already done. in other words, they will say she died in an air strike when in fact, she died at their hands. >> i know that you and i both pray that that assessment is incorrect. phil, could someone on the ground -- >> yes. >> -- at that jordanian building at that syrian building pardon me where they say it was a jordanian bomb that killed kayla mueller, could someone even discern what kind of a plane, whose plane it was that dropped such weaponry? >> boy, there are too many coincidences here michael. i was an analyst at the agency for 25 years. you stack um two or three

coincidences simultaneously and that starts to smell to me. coincidence one, the timing right on the heels of the jordanian pilot. coincidence two, which you just mentioned, are you kidding me somebody's looking up and identifying american aircraft versus jordanian aircraft and decide ing who dropped the bomb? no way. coincidence three -- only one person died in the strike? all this to an intelligence officer, and i don't think it takes an intelligence officer, looks to me like isis is trying to come up with some way to dig itself out of the hole that they dug a week ago with the murder of the pilot. >> so what's going on behind the scenes now? whose job is it on our side to try and figure out what went on here? is it the state department? is it the pentagon? is it some combination thereof? on whom are we relying? >> there's an intelligence picture here that the cia and others have to put together that might take months. here's the reason why -- in the intelligence world, classically, you look at two sources of intelligence. that is inform manhattans and wires. human penetrations into an

organization like al qaeda, and then technical information like intercepts of al qaeda communications. in my experience when we're operating against al qaeda and pakistan for example verifying someone's death, whether it's a hostage's death or whether it's the death of an al qaeda member who might have been killed by a drone strike is very difficult. you've got to depend on the technical side on the intercept side, for example, for somebody in the organization to make a mistake, somebody to refer to this air strike as a propaganda ploy, for example, somebody within isis. on the human side you've got to get detainees over the course of months, for example, who might have been at the site or who might have overheard isis commanders talking about what happened to this woman. neither of those stories, that is technical intercepts or detainee information or human informant information, can be picked up over the course of days or weeks. this could take months to determine what's happened to this woman. >> and finally, phil you heard my exchange with kyung lah where we both referenced the foley case. do your sources report that

there's been any change in the approach, in the posture by the administration in how they're handling these hostage circumstances? >> i have not heard changes in the posture, but you may recollect a few months ago president obama ordered a look at how america deals with hostage situations. i don't think that's a situation where the white house and other agencies like the cia, the pentagon state department would be talking about paying for hostages. i think in my world the cia and elsewhere in washington that would be viewed as unacceptable. but as more and more people die -- i mean i'm not a professional first, michael, i'm a human being. as more and more people die, you have to say is there some way to engage in a conversation a terrorist group that potentially brings a human soul back home beyond simply saying we don't talk to terrorists. it's not a pretty situation, but there is no pretty outcome here. >> i agree with you. phil mudd, thank you. >> thank you. i've got to take a quick break. when i come back a closer look at this question -- as isis spreads evidence of its brutality all over the internet

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a phoney p.r. stunt, that's what jordan is calling isis claims that kayla mueller died in air strikes. the extremist group thrives on propaganda as evidenced by the release of all those videos showing execution of hostages most recently the brutal murder of the jordanian air force pilot who was burned alive on camera. video of his murder quickly spread across the internet but cnn chose not to air it. meanwhile, fox news has posted the entire 22-minute video on its website. it's been viewed more than 7 million times. my question -- could the posting of the video actually help isis?

joining me now is foreign policy analyst ula jibril. is fox helping or hurting isis by showing that video on its website? >> isis is contributing to the budget market of isis. it's a -- >> fox is. >> fox news. it's a reckless choice because they are putting politics above national security. for them they don't understand that by doing this they're playing with a policy of fear but by doing this isis actually having a large market isis is doing this designed strategically to have and recruit more jihadists, to actually appeal to more jihadists around the world. and if you see how many foreign fighters, you have a thousand foreign fighters on a monthly basis going to fight with isis. fox news are helping isis. >> the contrary argument that fox is showing the horror that people need to see, need to appreciate it almost reminds me of the conversation we had about

"charlie hebdo," that there's something to be said for transparency so the is fully attuned to how awful these people are. >> i think the world already knows how awful they are. they don't need to see graphically the burning of a man that is alive 27 years old, a pilot burned alive. why you need to see that? one thing is to show cartoons of "charlie hebdo" where you see the prophet or you see them mocking a religion from one end to another. another is to see brutality and understand what isis' strategy is. their strategy is they're appealing, they're trying to market to these jihadists around the world so they can have them and recruit them and they can show them how exciting and what they are doing. and the extreme brutality. so if you understand that this is their strategy why you are actually helping them and the platform? >> maybe i'm naive. by the way, i watched. i wish i could unwatch. i wish i hadn't watched the 22

minutes but i actually did watch thinking i needed to understand to be able to conduct a program like this. i would hate to think there are people on the globe who would watch the culmination of that video and say that's something i want to be associated with. >> of course there's people around the world doing these things and actually getting excited by these things. if you think of all these jihadists that are going from europe chechnya from the middle east to help isis in their cause, what are they excited by? what are they intrigued by? this is al qaeda -- isis is al qaeda on steroid. this is what excites them. >> if the isis claim that a jordanian air strike has just killed the u.s. hostage, kayla mueller, if that's all propaganda isn't that evidence of what i'm saying that even isis now realizes that they overplayed their demented hand by videotaping the way in which they killed that jordanian pilot? and even isis doesn't want people now to see it because they're losing ground?

>> this is one way of seeing it. i look at the data. how many foreign fighters are going on monthly basis to help isis. how many people watched that video? >> 7 million plus on fox alone. >> on fox alone. there's at least as much worldwide watching that video. if 1% of these people are sympathetic towards isis or somebody that is sitting in europe and feel marginalized or feel ing excluded from society and has a borderline identity crisis and this is appealing to him, then what did we do? we're help pushing isis' agenda. we need to stop this propaganda. imagine if nazis are putting propaganda -- this is how they started the whole hate crimes against jews. propaganda. >> you're saying even if 99.999% reject it, that fraction that remains is enough to keep isis moving. i get the argument.

lit recruit just that individual. i want to switch gears slightly. you have said previously that what's needed here is recognition within the muslim world that this is not a united states battle against isis. do we finally have a champion in the king of jordan? is he now the individual from within the muslim community prepared to be the face of the opposition to isis? >> i think the champion is the civil society that throws up and says enough. this is not done in our name not in the name of our religion. this is not who we are. we will fight you to the end. i think now they're owning this battle. they're owning this war. and it's exciting to see millions of people in the streets of jordan say, look not only you are killing our religion and the credibility of our faith, but you are killing our own people over and over. and i think the burning of that human being alive just i think triggered in the jordanians one idea that isis not fighting, you

know -- their claim that they are fighting foreign fighters are fighting the saudis or they're fighting eventually the americans. but they're fighting every muslim that doesn't agree with their ideology. >> was the video a tipping point? has the tide finally turned now that people who needed to awaken will awaken because they've seen that barbarity? >> i think the people in the middle east have been awakened for a while. they've been fighting this phenomenon. but now they are galvan iced and they needed to be galvangalvanized, but let's be clear, we can win this militarily but if you don't defeat the ideology of isis, it will keep coming back. killing bin laden had nothing to do with the war on terror. it didn't change the ideology. >> i understand what you're saying and agree with it. after a quick break, i have some terrific stories including a mystery about 9/11 from behind the bars in the most secure prison in the united states. the man known as the 20th

hijacker zacarias moussaoui, is talking and making a shocking allegation about a u.s. ally. i'll have an skwloouch the attorney who took his testimony. and anchor brian williams, the face of nbc news remains embroiled in controversy. did he lie? and will he keep his job? then bruce jenner won gold at the '76 summer games. now it appears that the former athlete and tv personality is becoming a woman. i'll talk to someone who's gone through the transsexual transformation.

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all right. i'm poppy harlow in new york. smerconish will continue in just a moment. but first nbc's brian williams taking a short break from the anchor chair that he has occupied for more than ten years. this comes amid a growing controversy over his trustworthiness. days ago, williams made an on-air apology for telling a

false war story about his time in iraq in which he claimed to be on a military helicopter that was hit by a rocket-propelled grenade. later he backtracked saying he was actually on a different helicopter trailing behind that chopper that actually did get hit. nbc renewed williams' contract just about two months ago. reportedly a very large multimillion-dollar contract. i want to read you williams' note sent to his staff today, making this announcement. it says "in the midst of a career spent covering and consuming news it has become painfully apparent to me that i am presently too much a part of the news to do my actions. as managing editor of nbc news i've decided to take myself off my daily broadcast for the next several days, and lester holt has kindly agreed to sit in for me to allow me to adequately deal with this issue. upon my return, i will continue my career-long effort to be worthy of the trust of those who place their trust in us."

brian sulter what do you make of this news, the fact that brian williams has taken himself off his show, nothing forced? >> brian williams is an inspirational figure to generations of journalists. there are television anchors all across the country that admire him and some want to be him. yet this has been a serious clowe below to his credibility. it's been getting worse for days now, and he hasn't really said anything ever since wednesday when he apologized hadn't said anything till today. so it was only making it worse. he's stepping aside now, stepping back. nbc says it was his own doing, but there's a lot of speculation of course he was either pushed or forced to do this. any way you cut it he's stepping aside, it's a leave of absence, and now this is a chance for him to catch his breath and for nbc to get to the bottom of his actual stories. >> do we know what this internal investigation at nbc includes who's leading it? are they really going back through all of his past reports? >> it's something that has very little precedent in the television news business. there was a case involving dan

rather about a decade ago. this was a case about his report about the bush national guard service. >> relying on what turned out to be false documents. >> and there was an external review and investigation where they interviewed people inside cbs. dan rather left the "cbs evening news" not too long after that external investigation. this is a very different case and i'm not saying that that precedent should have been applied here. there's a lot of people even some at nbc, saying how can this internal investigation be taken seriously if it's being done by a producer who works at nbc? >> nay don't know if they'll have an external investigation. >> leading it is richard epps esposito esposito. he digs and digs to get at the truth. he's the senior producer of investigations. he's normally trying to figure out government wrongdoing. now his job is to investigate williams' wrong doink. >> the anchorman. let me read this quote after williams re-signed for five

years with nbc. it reads, "i am i think design pd and put on this earth to do what i'm doing now, to eat, sleep, and breathe nonfiction and the news going on in the world." this is him saying i live and breathe the news the facts. >> and he was renewing his contract at a time when some people wondered might he try to have a late-night talk show instead, go off and have a more entertaining or comedic role? because he is so funny and so well versed on jimmy fallon and david letterman's show. he's scheduled to be on david letterman's show this coming thursday. i'm wondering whether that appearance will be benched or not. nbc hasn't said if it's going forward. but he had a lot of those appearances in the past and yet by renewing his contract in december he was saying i'm stay ong the news route, stay the "nightly news" anchor. basically through the end of the decade. >> let me read you part of what maureen dowd wrote in her "new york times" column that will see sunday morning. "this was a bomb that had been ticking for a while. nbc executives were warned a year ago that brian williams was

constantly inflating his biography." she goes on but what is your reaction to that saying nbc execs were warned? >> she's not the only one saying that. i have to say that i don't personally have that same sourcing but she's not the only one bringing this up saying that brian williams over a period of time was exaggerating his story about this iraq war mission, which we should say was already dramatic. this was a situation where brian williams was in danger. he did go to iraq at the start of the war and choose to be an embedded reporter. it was a pivotal time in his career because 18 months later he was going to become the "nightly news" anchor and replace tom brokaw. some think he was out there trying to get some international reporting experience before ascending to that news chair. so he was on a risky mission, and yet over time he made the story, made the mission sound riskier for him than it actually was. one of the pilots who was on the helicopter that actually was struck by the rpg has been interviewed by the nbc investigative team so, we can see nbc is now retracing these steps and figuring out what's true and what's not.

what they find may determine whether brian williams can come back to work soon. >> and whether he does come back. he says this leave of absence is only a few days. we'll see. we appreciate it. thank you very much. a quick break. more of smerconish right after this. the traffic jam. scourge of 20th century city life. raiser of blood pressure. disrupter of supply chains. stealer of bedtime stories. polluter. frustrater. time thief. [cars honking] and one day soon we'll see the last one ever. cisco is building the internet of everything for connected cities today, that will confine the traffic jam to yesterday. cisco... ...tomorrow starts here.

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bruce jenner is an american icon who's led a very public life. he xwrased the front of the wheaties box after the '76

olympics and is the cover story of "people" magazine. he's also a reality tv star on "keeping up with the kardashians." it's reported that he's in the process of becoming a woman. my next guest also lives a public life as a correspondent for ""inside edition"" and might have something else in common with jenner. you know her work. a little more than 20 years ago in 1994 90 million people tuned into a live broadcast of a police chasing a white ford bronco on a california highway carrying one o.j. simpson. the chase was caught on camera by a news chopper flown by bob tur, known locally as bob. he's now zoe tur, special correspondent for ""inside edition,"" the first transgender news reporter. zoe, thanks for being here. what's the hardest part of going through the transition? is it physical or is it emotional? >> it's loss of male privilege. so it's environmental followed

by the brain changes, the emotional changes, and the things that you lose when you do transition including family friends, jobs money. >> and i know that the family aspect of this was a particular struggle for you as you recently detailed to los angeles magazine. >> yeah. it was extraordinary. i have two children. i have a daughter and a son and it was a shock to them. it took them a while to come around. it's taken my daughter almost two years and she's finally, you know dealing with this and we're back on good terms. my son a little sooner. but it's a big shock to your friends, your family and to the people that knew you publicly. i transitioned publicly. i was famous before i transitioned. a lot of people followed me. and it was surprising to a lot of people. >> is there a tendency for transgenders to do hypermasculine things? i'm thinking of you flying

helicopters. i'm thinking of bruce jenner and his exploits in the olympics. i'm also thinking of the s.e.a.l. kristen beck or is it that the media tends to focus on those cases? >> no. i think we tend to be left-handed. we tend to be well educated. our iq points about 20 iq points higher than the national average and we tend to do things that are considered hypermasculine. there are a number of us that are helicopter pilots airline pilots. i know six other helicopter pilots that are transgender. i know a bunch of airline pilots. i know people in the nsa, spies, military people. so we're everywhere. it's not what you really think like we're hairdressers or anything, although we aspire to hairdressing, but the reality is we do these masculine jobs or what are considered masculine jobs. >> so do you look at this as a good thing that potentially this is what's occurring with bruce jenner? in other words, from your

perspective and that of others who have been through the process who have transitioned do you say, well finally there will be more public acceptance because he's such a beloved figure? >> well her coming out is a very good thing. bruce jenner is an amazing athlete, but the way she's doing it has been terrible for the community. >> how so? >> it's horrible. because it looks like it's part of the kardashian train wreck. and, you know, it's painted with a kardashian brush. so people are very suspicious is this real. also, you know the tension is building up is bruce really doing it not doing it. and maybe from a reality show selling a reality show product, it's a good thing, but it's terrible for our community because it makes us look stupid. and bruce jenner by losing the narrative and not controlling her narrative and coming out and speaking about it allows us to speculate, allows the tabloid

press to speculate and jenner has become a national joke. >> zoe, you referenced other helicopter pilots that you're familiar with who have similarly transitioned. i thought this was really wild. everybody knows where they were when we were watching your film footage of the white ford bronco chase. what i didn't realize until recently is that you had competition, there was another helicopter in the sky, you were racing one another to get there. arguably the other helicopter beat you there. what is it that america needs to know about the other pilot? >> that was derrick bali and we get into this fight all the time. it was kind of a good-natured fight, but we didn't like each other. we are fierce competitors. and then i discovered the day the story broke that i was transitioning and it was covered widely by the press somebody a friend of mine desiree horton called up and said you need to call up derrick bali. and i said why? dirk bali is, you know -- i hate him. and she said no, no, dirk is now

dana dana. she transitioned 24 months ago. and i went you've got to be kidding! first again! >> zoe, thank you. appreciate your perspective. >> of course. >> thank you so much. coming up, the so-called 20th hijacker, zacarias moussaoui. he claims the saudi royal family supported al qaeda before the 9/11 terror attacks. is he telling the truth? my exclusive with the lawyer who took his testimony is next. what does an apron have to do with car insurance? an apron is hard work. an apron is pride in what you do. an apron is not quitting until you've made something a little better. what does an apron have to do with car insurance? for us, everything.

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know better sleep with sleep number. from the federal supermax prison in colorado terrorist zacarias moussaoui has just upped the ante on the white house to release 28 top-secret pages pertaining to a possible saudi role in the events of 9/11. the classified pages come from a joint inquiry by congress into the planning of 9/11. former senate intel chair bob graham was one of those who read the pages, the secret pages, and he told me this. >> they primarily deal with who financed 9/11 and they point a strong finger at saudi arabia. >> the saudis deny this.

the obama administration has thus far refused to release that information despite the pleas of 9/11 victim family members. last week we learned that in connection with a lawsuit in which insurance companies are seeking to hold saudi arabia financially responsible for 9/11 moussaoui gave sworn testimony in which he said it was his job to prepare an electronic database tracking donations from members of the saudi royal family to bin laden. the lawyer to whom moussaoui gave that testimony is sean carter and he joins me now. sean the saudis as you know say he's stone-cold crazy and not even the 9/11 commission brought into this. >> yeah well there are two problems with the saudis' arguments on that point. the first that the 9/11 commission did not exonerate saudi arabia. our filing this week included not only moussaoui's testimony but affidavits from two members of the 9/11 commission emphatically denying that the commission had exonerated the saudis and urging there was further evidence that did need to be explored.

with regard to the saudis' comment that moussaoui is a deranged criminal the fact of the matter is that's what makes him a knowledgeable witness. by way of analogy, when the department of justice prosecutes a mob boss they don't call the parish priest as their star witness. they call someone else from within the mob, a deranged criminal as it were and they ask the jury to believe that person precisely because only someone within a covert criminal enterprise with can truly provide inside information about what it does. in moussaoui's case, the fact of the matter is our claim against saudi arabia doesn't rise and fall on moussaoui's testimony. it's part of a much bigger mosaic of evidence that documents strong ties between saudi government actors and hijackers here in the united states and the filing this week included 4,000 pages of evidence in support of our claims. it wasn't just moussaoui's testimony. >> you went behind bars of the most secure federal prison in the united states. i want to put up on the screen an oath that moussaoui offered

as you were about to take his testimony. he says that, you know may allah curse the liar. there it is. i swear by allah that everything i say until the end of this testimony will be true. may allah curse the liar. did you, sean find him to be credible? >> i did as well as the other lawyers and investigators who were out with us. we actually brought some subject matter experts, counterterrorism experts with us so that we would be able to sort of gut check what he was saying throughout the testimony. and he provided incredibly detailed testimony about al qaeda's operations during that period the organizational structure and who was responsible for certain activities, the nature of al qaeda's facilities within kandahar at that time and everything he said when he was providing it was very detailed directly responsive testimony checked out for us. so we do think what he said was credible. i also saw this week in the last day or so that congressman stephen lynch and walter jones, both of whom are pressing for a

resolution to release the 28 pages, have commented that they saw things in moussaoui's testimony that reflected and were mirrored by what they head ready in the 28 pages. >> why won't the white house release pages? the president has told 9/11 victim family members he was supportive of the release. why won't the white house release that information? >> we've never received an explanation of that and, you know the affidavits that we submitted this week including from former secretary of the navy john lay mapp, who served on the 9/11 commission said there's nothing in those pages that would implicate or compromise national security. and so, you know there doesn't seem to be a real justification for withholding them on national security grounds. at the end of the day, what we think this all reflects, the interest in moussaoui's testimony, the interest in seeing the 28 pages released is this overwhelming sense among the american people that we still haven't got an full and transparent accounting of saudi arabia's role in the emergence

of al qaeda and the events of september 11th. that's what we really need. we don't simply need the 28 pages. we need all of the evidence available to assess whether or not the saudis had something to do with that. >> sean what is it that you think went on here? is it that the saudis -- why in the world would the saudis want there to be a strike against the united states? do you believe that at its core what took place here is that the saudis were buying themselves peace by paying off the wahhabi clerics and frankly turning a blind eye to what might take place outside of saudi arabia? or do you actually believe that the saudi royal family wanted there to be a strike against the united states? >> well i think there are many reasons to conclude that members of the royal family would have derived political, strategic, and even personal benefits from contributing to bin laden during that period of time. one of which is the reason you note that it would have bought certain protection from al qaeda attacking within the kingdom. it also would have appeased demands of the wahhabi clergy ho

who exercise tremendous influence and were increasingly flexing their muscles within the kingdom during that period and making demands of the saudi royal family to get in line with their sort of islamist agenda. the saudi royal family has also demonstrated its willingness to use islamist jihadist fighters as proxies in conflict zone where is they want to exercise some influence. we saw that most recently in syria. and so it's reasonable to expect that al qaeda would have been viewed as a reasonable proxy during this period in the late '90s for conflicts in bosnia kosovo, and elsewhere. so there are all of these reasons. within the saudi royal family there are certainly thousands of princes and some are more closely aligned with the wa haly clerics and others. as to the individual motivations of particular princes yard line say. >> and i don't know what the real facts are. i want to read the 28 pages. i think we as americans are owed the release of those 28 pages. i also want to read the testimony of president bush president clinton, and of vice

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welcome back to the program. a lot of campaign promises were

fulfilled this week when the newly elected house republicans got their first chance to vote to repeal obamacare. this was now the 67th time the house voted to repeal all or part of the affordable care act. of course president obama is still pledging to veto any attempt to roll back his signature legislation. more than 7 million americans are currently enrolled in private insurance through obamacare while tens of millions of americans still don't have health insurance. one prominent journalist who has done a yearlong investigation of obamacare says the law focuses too much on who pays not enough on how much they pay. joining me now is steven brill. his new book "america's bitter pill: money politics back room deals and the fight to fix our broken health care system," i should point out already a "new york times" bestseller. congratulations. >> thank you. >> you wrote the longest ever cover story for "time" magazine about health care and then you had an ayor it aneurysm so i guess you could say you had a front-row view.

what did you learn from your own experience you didn't already know? >> i knew intellectually that health care was a difficult political issue because people really care about their health more than they care about health care policy. i learned that in spades emotionally when i had my own situation and when iat i learned really in spades is there's no such thing as a health care marketplace as we know the marketplace, which is you go into a store, you're a consumer you have information about what you want to buy, you can comparison shop decide you don't want to buy it you can ask questions, look at consumer reports and see what the quality ratings are. none of that happens in the health care marketplace. >> you pointed out after your darnl discharge you opened 36 different ep voeps with which all contained your billing. what i thought when i read that part of the book is we don't care what it costs. all we want to know is are we covered. >> exactly right. >> you said there's no such thing as a run-away cost when

it's a loved one getting treatment. >> exactly right. when i opened those envelopes, 36 of them which tells you something about the efficiency of the system, the third one said amount billed zero amount you know $154. as it happened i had an interview scheduled a few weeks later on this part of the book with the ceo of united health care my insurance company. then at the end i reached into my pocket and took out that explanation of benefits and said i'm wondering if you can help me with this. i'm having trouble understanding it. amount billed zero amount i owe $154. what does that mean? he looked down at it looked at it for a while, his p.r. guy was getting nervous and he looked up and said i could sit here all day and i couldn't decode that for you. i have no idea what it means and i don't know why they sent it to you. i said aren't you "they"? i think for those hoping that the affordable care act obamacare is going to solve this my take-away from america's bitter pill is the

affordable care act is all about who pays but not how much they pay. >> right. >> and that has yet to be reined in. >> exactly right. it's a good thing. the good news is millions of people now have access to health care in this country and it was a national disgrace that they didn't. that's the good news. the bad news is they're going to -- we're going to be paying for it as taxpayers because we're subsidizing their insurance and the prices haven't changed, the irrationality of the system hasn't changed, nothing has been done. it just means that the bill for taxpayers is going to be& added on to everything we've been paying for. >> final point. you don't just criticize or condemn what we have. you offer solutions. at the end of the book you lay out based on your knowledge studying this issue. give me one example. >> we have to stop being the only country in the world that does nothing to control the price of prescription drugs. that's one obvious example. we have to rein in the profits of so-called nonprofit hospitals

which all across the country are typically the most profitable biggest businesses in any community with the most highly compensated executives in that community. >> and they all seem to be expanding. >> they're all expanding. and they're all nonprofits which means they don't pay taxes. >> right. steven brill, congratulations on a bestseller. >> thank you. >> a great book. >> thank you. we'll be right back. the bed reacts to your body. it hugs you. i don't have to think about how to get comfortable anymore. this zips off so i can wash it-yes, please. dude, tempur-pedic is killing it. no more tossin' and turnin', trying to find a comfortable spot in bed. it's really cool to the touch. my tempur-pedic... cuddles better than my husband does. but that's just between you and me. (vo) visit your local retailer and feel the tempur-pedic difference for yourself.

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thanks for joining me. you can follow me on twitter if you can spell "smerconish." see you next week. you're in the "cnn newsroom." i'm poppy harlow joining you from new york. 7:00 eastern, a lot of news to bring you this hour this evening, we are following a

ballooning scandal at nbc. so far it will cost their "nightly news" anchor at least a few days off the air. we're talking act brian williams. he sent a memo to his colleagues at nbc today saying he is stepping away from the anchor desk temporarily while the network investigates claims that he made several times about his experiences covering the iraq war. williams has admitted not telling the truth about being in a helicopter that was hit by an rpg in 2003. now the journalism community raising some questions about accuracy in other major stories that he reported on. williams in his internal memo saying it has been painful to be presently too much part of the news saying he is stepping aside for a few days to deal with the situation. the story was mentioned on nbc news just a short time ago, the weekend edition hosted by lester holt. let's bring in brian salter our senior media correspondent. what struck me