intentions known sooner to know by the end of march because the other candidates are getting so active. they set the current odds at 60/40 in favor of rubio running. that's it for "inside politics." thanks for sharing your sunday morning. we'll see you soon. "state of the union" starts right now. a terror threat against western shopping malls. rude did iy giuliani becomes a lightning rod for the democratic party. this is "state of the union." good morning from washington i'm gloria berger. breaking this hour homeland security secretary jeh johnson. rudy giuliani under fire about his comments about president obama. the president and terror and republican governor john kasich on his white house ambitions.

first, an al qaeda-linked terror group is calling for attacks on shopping malls here in the united states. specifically the mall of america in minnesota as well as shopping malls in brittain and in canada. in a taped message we have the department of homeland security secretary jeh johnson. thank you for being with us this morning. i have to get right to the news this morning, which is that an al qaeda-linked terror group, al shabaab, is publicly calling for attacks now on shopping malls in the united states as well as overseas. they've specifically targeted the mall of america in minnesota. in a video they have released. what can you tell us about how operationally advanced this threat is mr. secretary? >> gloria this latest statement from al shabaab reflects the new phase we've evolved to in the global terrorist threat in that

you have groups such as al shabaab, isil publicly calling for independent actors in their home lands to carry out attacks. we're beyond the phase now where these groups would send foreign operatives into countries after being trained someplace. we're now at a stage where it is all the more important in our counter terrorism efforts that we have a whole government approach. we have the military response through an international coalition but there's also law enforcement and homeland security which is why the summit we had this week on countering violent extremism in our communities is all the morn important. i've personally been to minneapolis to meet with islamic community leaders there, and so our law enforcement homeland security engagements here at home given how this terrorist threat has evolved are becoming all the more important. >> there are reports that isis is trying to recruit al shabaab and that that may be part of the problem in minneapolis. is that your read of it? >> we're in an environment right

now where i suspect these groups are competing for attention. isil has received a lot of attention through their very effective use of the internet social media, and we're now seeing for example, aqap in its most recent edition of "inspire" a whole chapter on how to build a non-metallic device as well as this most recent public statement. so my concern is that these groups were actually competing for attention and for fundraising and recruitment. >> not only that saying to their members, do it at home. you don't need to travel. >> we're in a new phase in that these groups are relying more and more on independent actors to become inspired drawn to the cause and -- >> and the internet through the internet. >> -- small scale attacks on their own through their effective use of the internet so that's why it's critical that

we work in the communities where these groups might be able to recruit to help develop the counter narrative, to build trust with law enforcement, with homeland security security with state and local law enforcement. >> how seriously are you taking this threat? >> i am very concerned about the serious potential threat of independent actors here in the you stalgts. we've seen this now in europe. we've seen this in canada. >> but specifically against the mall of america. >> any time they call for an attack against a specific place, we've got to take that seriously. through our intelligence bulletins, through working with state and local law enforcement, through working with the fbi we take this kind of thing very seriously. >> and i just want to read you one more thing on this. this is a statement from the mall of america today. mall of america is aware of a threatening video that was released which included a mention and images of the mall. we take any potential threat seriously and respond appropriately appropriately. we have implemented extra

security precautions. some may be noticeable to guests and others won't. what are you telling americans who might be planning a trip to the mall this sunday? >> what we're telling the public in general is you've got to be vigilant. we just revamped tds our if you see something say something campaign at the super bowl last month. and so public engagement public awareness is critical. americans should still feel that they are free to associate. they are free to go to public gatherings but it's critical that we have public awareness and public participation in our efforts. >> are they safe in going to the mall of america today? if you want to go take your kids to the mall of america? >> i would say that if anyone is planning to go to the mall of america today, they've got to be particularly careful and as the statement you read indicates, there will be enhanced security there that will be apparent to people who are there. >> federal security as well?

>> there will be enhanced security public vigilance, public awareness and public caution in situations like this is particularly important. and it's the environment we're in frankly. it's all the more reason why i need a budget and i'm assuming you're going to ask me about that. >> i will ask you about that right now. of course this comes down to a time when republicans in congress are threatening to shut down your department in a week over a fight on immigration. if it were to shut down a week from now, what would that do to national security? how would that impact a discussion like the one we've just been having about al shabaab and fighting terrorism in this country? >> in a bunch of ways. first of all, it's absurd that we're even having this conversation about congress's inability to fund homeland security in these challenging times, but if by the end of the week congress has not funded the department of homeland security we will have to furlough some

30,000 people mostly at headquarters people on the front lines, aviation security maritime security will be forced to come to work without a paycheck and so for the working men and women of my department to have to work without a paycheck is very significant, very serious and congress needs to appreciate that. our grant-making activities to state and local law enforcement, to commissioners, sheriffs chiefs grinds to a halt. fema in the midst of this very harsh winter right now will have to furlough something like 80% of its permanent appropriated workers. >> are you talking to each other? are you -- they were off last week? >> they were off last week but the week before and the week before that i've been on the hill constantly talking to republicans and democrats about the -- on the house andersen nate side about the significance of funding the department of homeland security right now. the thing that frankly is

frustrating to me when i go to the senate they say, it's not us it's the house. go over to the house side talk to them. i go to the house and they say, we passed our bill it's not us it's the senate. so they're literally doing this right now. we have i think, four or five working days left to get this right and so i'll be back on the hill again i'm sure. i'm hoping someone will exercise some leadership to get the public foort good of the public safety a budget for the department of homeland security. >> i have a couple other areas i want to get to. that is you also have a problem on the legal front when it comes to immigration. a federal judge temporarily stopped your plan to start processing illegal immigrants. i'm assuming the administration plans an appeal to that. how soon will we see that? >> yes. this is what appellate courts are for. >> when will you do this appeal? >> we will be appealing and seeking an emergency stay probably on monday tomorrow. and i expect that we'll prevail.

you have to consider the position this injunction leaves us in this judge's decision in texas leaves us in. the judge himself said in his opinion he does not quarrel with the secretary's ability to prioritize who we remove who we deport from this country. we're focused on deporting convicted criminals, threats to public safety, threats to border security. there is a population who are not priorities and will not be deported in any administration, republican or democrat and the net effect of this decision is we are not allowed to try to encourage them to come out of the shadows. >> right. you're going to appeal and say allow us to start doing this again? >> we will appeal and we'll seek a stay so we can go back to implementation of our efforts to built accountability in the non-documented community. >> and let me get to -- >> from a law enforcement perspective that is a very important thing to do.

so that we know who these people are. >> let me get to one more subject. changing subjects on you a little bit. it's about rudy giuliani's comments this week. i know you actually worked for rudy giuliani. >> he hired me to be a federal prosecutor in 1988. >> so you know him pretty well. >> i know mayor giuliani well. we were together this past 9/11. we did the rounds together in new york. i'm a new yorker too. we did the rounds together at fire stations 34rigs r police precincts on lower manhattan on 9/11. i'll just say that in my judgment mayor giuliani's comments were not helpful. his comments about the president of the united states particularly in these times. >> not loving america. >> not helpful. >> what do you mean by not helpful. >> his comments were not helpful and i'm sorry to see statements like that coming from the former

mayor whose response to 9/11 in 2001 i admired very much. his response to me is a model for how government leaders should respond in times of crisis. i think his most recent statements are very regrettable. >> thank you very much mr. secretary. thanks for being with us this morning. >> thank you, gloria. and when we come back america's mayor takes heat about america's president and puts his own republican party in a bind. i have $40 $21. could something that small make an impact on something as big as your retirement? i don't think so. well if you start putting that towards your retirement every week and let it grow over time, for twenty to thirty years that retirement challenge might not seem so big after all. ♪ ♪

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he was america's mayor after 9/11 then a presidential candidate. now rudy giuliani is a lightning rod. even within his own party, for saying that the president does not love america. he first made the comments at a private event, but then he went on tv to double down.

>> i don't feel this love of america. his initial approach is to criticize this country and then afterwards to say a few nice things about us. >> in an interview with cnn's jim accosta giuliani said quote, i don't regret making that statement, i believe it. the republican party's presidential candidates were left holding the bag. this is supposed to be the new gop. the party that cares about these things. >> the stickiness of poverty is a huge challenge. >> if we can get immigration right we have a good chance of winning in 2016. >> when you have great economic success you need to share it with those who live in the shadows. >> evolve adapt or die. i think the party has to change. >> this week that party was blindsided by one of its most elite members, and joining me now to talk about all of this and the future of the party is quite an elite group. tom ridge, former pennsylvania governor and an adviser to jeb

bush. george pataki who was governor of new york on 9/11. he's thinking about a presidential run. congressman darrell issa a leading member of the house republican conservative caucus. thanks so much to all of you for being here with me. i'm going to go first to governor pataki because you were rudy giuliani's post 9/11 partner there in the state of new york when you were governor he was mayor. what did you think when you heard him utter those words, that the president doesn't love america? >> well gloria let me first say i was honored to work with rudy. we worked as closely as two leaders could at that time and i'm proud of how well we came together and the american people came together after september 11th to get us through that horrible time. but, gloria just think. you just had the homeland security secretary saying americans have to use extreme caution if we go to the mall of america in minneapolis

minnesota. we're talking about this? we should be taking about a proactive strategy to go after islamic terrorists overseas what we have to do to grow our economy even more and you're talking about the battle over immigration in washington instead of solutions how we can deal with those who are here illegally. >> isn't it rudy giuliani who stepped on that message that you're talking about? >> you know the media loves to talk about somebody's comment. okay they're having a school yard spat. who loves america? i don't doubt that the president loves america, but i do doubt that we're focusing on solving the problems in washington that we need to and instead of fighting about stupid things like this or measles vaccines or evolution, let's focus on coming together as we did after september 11th and solving the very real problems facing the american people. >> well -- >> our government doesn't work. >> well you know governor ridge, let me take this to you.

i hear governor pataki blaming the media. in fact governor scott walker tweeted this this morning, enough with the media's gotcha game. we started our american revival to talk about big, bold ideas. and i get that. but when a leading republican who once ran for president, by the way, and was a serious candidate says something like the president doesn't love america, is he a divider and not a uniter as george w bush might say? >> no, we certainly know that rudy is not concerned about how people respond to his -- to his sentiments. i, for one, disagree with my friend and rudy is a friend. he's a great and accomplished leader. i think there's enormous frustration. >> it was hateful. it was a hateful remark. >> but i think the point that george is trying to make and i'm trying to make is he's got a strong opinion. everybody knows rudy articulates

his opinions that way. he's zealot about that. we need to get beyond that. he was expressing a frustration in a way that i don't agree with. i don't doubt the president's love for the country. it's about leadership or lack of leadership. the way he articulated, we don't care for it but it's typical rudy. >> typical rudy. >> but he's always aggressive. he's always up front. you never walk away from a conversation with rudy giuliani questioning how he feels about a particular -- >> this was a personal insult to the president of the united states. >> yes, and it has been rejected by most of the colleagues and his friends, but at the end of the day there's enormous frustration with the presidential leadership or lack thereof. how about the flexibility with putin? they gobbled up more of ukraine? how about we're going to get rid of assad? well he's been able to kill 200,000 of his own citizens and hundreds of thousands left. isil's not a j.v. team. tehran has more authority and influence in baghdad than we do. that's what everybody's concerned about.

rudy articulated it in a bold dramatic way in the way that most of us don't agree with. >> he kind of hijacked the conversation in a different direction. >> well i mean -- certainly hijacked it. we're not talking about isil we're not talking about iran nuclear negotiations not about the ukraine being gobbled up by the individual that president obama said, well after the election i'll have more flexibility. he certainly has more flexibility. these are the things that are concerning a lot of people. instead of talking about rudy, we've probably beat that one down pretty far, there are a lot of things we need to talk about. >> let me let congressman issa get his two cents in here? >> do you have any defense of what the mayor said? >> i don't think rudy's ever going to get the dust from ground zero out of his lungs. he was there during the fall of those towers so for him to take personally a president whose

policies have left israel hanging, have left our arab allies not trusting us have left -- let isil as the governor said go from being -- called a j.v. team as they took on more territory expansively from algeria to iraq than in fact the size of texas, so the reality is that rudy has taken our debate and i think we should thank him for this part of it back to national security to the key element that the president should be focusing on. he needs to call it islamic terrorism. he can't be looking at everything through the vision that somehow if you treat people better if we're more democratic you're not going to have terrorism, and then have his own secretary telling people they have to be vigilant if they go to a mall in minnesota, the reality is that we are losing the war against islamic fundamentalists around the world and it is not about religion he says but it is about religion. these people hate us for who we

are and who we're not, and if we don't get on board with allies we can find and root out these terrorist organizations, then america will not be safe. they're saying it on this sunday and yet at the same time we have a haphazard no boots on the ground effort around the globe and that's just not right. rudy cares passionately about america's security. rudy governed a state that was vastly democratic. >> these were pretty partisan comments though. >> you know what when president obama -- but when president obama implied that -- as he said that bush was unpatriotic for his spending in 2008 that was wrong, too. there's plenty of that kind of behavior that goes on but the policies that rudy is talking about on the trail are important and the policies have to be about national security.

it's nice to take -- to do a war on poverty again, but the reality is we look to our presidents to go around the world and make sure that our friends believe in us and work with us and our enemies snow that we are not going to toll ler trait. >> let me take this to governor pataki who is am i correct, thinking about a run for the presidency? >> yes, that's correct. >> okay. so -- >> yes. >> -- when -- as a -- as a potential presidential candidate, we have asked lots of potential presidential candidates this week about rudy giuliani's comments. some of them have disowned them, for example jeb bush. some of them like scott walker refused to comment. yesterday he told the washington post he wasn't sure if the president was a christian and then his press secretary had to clean that up a little bit. don't you think republican presidential candidates who were

blindsided by this i admit, but don't you think they have to come out there and say what they believe about what rudy giuliani said directly you need to do that? >> i think -- i think when you're asked the question you have to answer it. >> so? >> yes, i think what he said was wrong, but -- i think it was wrong, but what i understand is that rudy and i saw the horrible consequences of looking the other way because radical islamic terror was thousands of miles across the world. and we saw the thousands of people many of whom both of us knew die that day. and we saw the courage with which americans and new yorkers responded, and it's deep in our bloods. when we look today and we see them have training camps, we see them have recruiting centers, we see them have social media capability and our own homeland security secretary coming on saying we have to use extreme caution going to a mall here and we have very weak leadership from washington i can

understand how you get very upset about that. i get upset about it as well. we have to be proactive and go after those camps on the ground before they can attack us again here. >> gloria, i think you've sensed from my colleagues the enormous frustration we have with this litany of decisions and basically non-decisions that the president has made or miss calculations he's made over the past couple of years. >> right. there's one thing to have frustration with the president and there's another thing to demean the president. >> yeah but, gloria -- gloria we -- we -- if we wanted to get -- get on top of the vice president every time he says something flip and foolish or vulgar we could have this discussion every sunday. >> yeah, but let me just say something about that. >> that is historic -- >> congressman issa the vice president may very well be clumsy but these remarks were hateful. >> the -- rudy giuliani and i think marco rubio said it very

well when he said exactly that look we can find somebody who believes strongly something. rudy giuliani said he didn't believe. he didn't say the president wasn't he said he didn't believe. now the reality is that i do believe that the president believes strongly in america, i just think he views america differently. i was there when he denounced the u.s. supreme court in the halls of congress during the state of the union for their decision. >> yeah. >> his beliefs are -- should be his policy decisions and i hope we get back onto it. we have a president who doesn't believe the supreme court is supreme. >> let me go to governor ridge for a moment on this. >> i think, again, to reiterate the point i made before i think not just among republicans but even some of the polls are showing the great direction that the president has taken vice a have i the multiple foreign policy that we have. rudy said something that a lot of us reject but the notion that rudy was challenging the

president's policy, i think that's at the epicenter of this debate that we should be having is whether or not there should be boots on the ground whether or not the flexibility he gave to vladimir putin led to the incursion and to -- >> my question is whether -- >> those are the discussions we should be having. >> whether this hurts that policy debate because instead of focusing on the policy debate, and you might blame the media, i just think what he said is so out of bounds that it -- >> gloria it's a distraction. there's no question it's a distraction because what we want to talk about, need to talk about is america being safe. our allies realizing that they can count on us again. look bebe netanyahu is coming to the u.s. house to a joint session because, in fact he's not being heard by this president at a time in which tehran is heading toward a nuclear weapon aimed at him. we have some real problems where our allies do not trust us and our enemies obviously do not fear us.

that has to change. >> well and governor pataki let me say this to you if you might run for the presidency in the last presidential election you had a republican presidential candidate, mitt romney who was in a private fund-raiser and made the now infamous 47% remarks, which really herd his candidacy. you now have rude gi daly giuliani at a private event making some very direct and inflammatory remarks about the president of the united states at a private event. so what can you say to people who might be thinking about -- >> and, gloria -- >> yes. >> and, gloria you have a president whose policies have frustratingly made us in a much more vulnerable place. that's what we should be discussing. why are we talking about the 2012 election? >> but what do you say to -- >> i don't understand why we're not talking about standing with egypt, arming the peshmerga.

your earlier show this morning talked about how the peshmerga this morning were not getting the arms and supports they need. these are the types of policy discussions we should be having. >> and i think -- and i think -- and i think we are having them. i think it's been hijacked. let me get to my question about you as a potential presidential candidate, which is -- which is why should voters who are thinking of voting republican say -- believe that people are saying one thing about how they feel privately to the -- to fundraisers, to people who want to you know throw red meat out to candidate backers and another thing in public? so what can the republican party do to convince voters that, in fact it wants to broaden itself it has a real foreign policy message that it wants to deliver which we've heard from you all this morning and convince me and the public that it is a party they should vote for. >> gloria i understand.

gloria you may be a little surprised, but the republican party has done pretty well of late. we control both houses of congress. >> that is true. >> most of the governorships. >> that is true. >> and the state legislators and you're acting as though the republican party is somehow suffering enormously. the individual candidates have to express to the people why they have the vision and the experience to be able to not just run this country but change this country. >> right, but to win the white house back. >> because we have to change washington. it comes down to the individual candidate, their vision experience and the ideas that they have. i know we have to change the -- this country is a great country with a very weak government. it's the government in washington that has to change not american people -- not the american people. >> no, and what i was talking about was the republicans becoming a presidential party -- >> they do well. more than that. gloria the other point that i'd make is it's not just about

republicans, it's about the american people coming together and understanding that we have a common future. the politicians, the media, so many try to point fingers at each other. let's solve problems. i saw what americans could do when we stand together in the months and years after september 11th. >> okay. >> right now it's the politicians who divide us. let's solve problems move forward together and if we do the best for this country is ahead of us. >> i'm going to just go to former homeland security secretary -- first homeland security secretary ridge and -- and ask you about first of all what you've heard this morning from jeh johnson and secondly about this fight to cut off funding. >> well, first of all, i appreciate jeh's reminder that law enforcement and the military are the tip of the spear. we encourage awareness in that mall but generally that's unfortunately the world within which we are going to live. it might be a permanent

condition. remember they've done it before. they did it in kenya in 2013. this is on the minds of mall owners and those responsible for people aggregating in large numbers ever since 9/11 so it's not as if we needed that reminder. i happen to have enormous sympathy for secretary johnson. i think -- i believe president obama gravely over reached his constitutional authority. i mean i just find it very very troubling not only on the integration piece. having said that. i believe this country has faced the breadth and the depth of the foreign policy challenges for al qaeda, al shabaab, isil gravest we've ever seen and so to be talking about immigration and using a funding mechanism to undermine the department these are great patriots all.

they go to work every day trying to make sure america is safer and more secure. what i would recommend, my friends, is accept the notion we're going to do this either the judicial branch or perhaps let's send the president a bill or a series of bills, a series of bills dealing with immigration. >> and fund homeland security? >> exactly. fund it. this is an inside the beltway game. moms and dads concerned about their job, got to get the kids to school got to pay my bills. the one thing they know governor george pataki alluded to it. they know they've got both chambers. we have the house andersen nate. they don't know anything about the 60% cultural. >> the house republicans -- >> i want my republicans to give the secretary a clean funding bill and use the legislative process to engage america around the desperate need social humanitarian economic for robust economic reform. >> thank you, governors and thank you congressman issa for being with me this morning for a

very spirited conversation. >> thank you. we did send a clean bill to the president. >> we'll have to end it there. >> we could have a slightly -- >> cut it off. have it in the greenroom. thanks so much. next how important is language in the fight against terror? deputy defense secretary paul wolfeowitz on whether obama is right or wrong in his choice of words and the former deputy secretary on his new role in advising jeb bush. there's nothing more romantic than a spontaneous moment. so why pause to take a pill?

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a container ship delivered it to that truck. here in san diego, we're building the first one ever to run on natural gas. ships this big running this clean will be much better for the environment. we're proud to be a part of that. and joining me now, paul wolfowitz, former dep secretary of defense and the key player in the george w. bush administration as it prepared to go to the war in iraq. thanks very much for being with me. the president held a summit on violent extremism this week as you know. he refuses to use the terms islamic radicals or islamic

extremists because he believes it's both inaccurate and that it's also inflammatory. what do you think about that? >> look i have a little bit of sympathy for what he's wrestling with. he doesn't want to give islamic extremists which is what they are, a monopoly on that word. i think to pretend that islam has nothing to do with the problem is a mistake. what we're dealing with is a totalitarian ideology that exploits islam and many of our best friends and allies in the fights against that ideology are going to be muslims themselves. >> it's interesting to hear you say you have sympathy for the president on this point because this week there is a large controversy, as i'm sure you know. new york mayor rudy giuliani caused quite an uproar when he came out and said the president doesn't love america. what do you think about that? do you believe that? >> no, i don't, but i think this refusal to call a phenomenon what it is makes him look silly.

it makes him look as though he's an authority about what is true islam when he's not even a muslim. i think people understand that islam has something to do with what we're fighting and when you deny it i think you lose a lot of support and understanding, including from the american people. >> on the one hand be you said you had sympathy with him and on the other hand now you're saying he is refusing to kind of acknowledge reality? >> look yes, i have sympathy for him because i don't think we want to alienate the muslims who are on our side. that's where my sympathy stops. i think unless you're frank about what the problem is you will in fact not recruit them. >> you're a foreign policy adviser to jeb bush now. you were one of the original drivers of the invasion of iraq when his brother, george w bush was president. do you think now that it will inevitably take american combat group -- boots on the ground to successfully battle isis there? >> i don't think it will

inevitably but i think we have to be open to all the possibilities, and i do think one thing we learned -- >> likely? >> i think at the rate things are going we're not winning i think is the problem. and what we need to be doing a much better job of is finding the sunnis who are on our side and not setting ourselves up basically as general petraeus said as the air force for the shia militias of iraq. >> let me play a little bit for you about what jeb bush said about iraq last week and we'll talk on the other side. >> there were mistakes made in iraq for sure. using the intelligence capability that everybody embraced about weapons of mass destruction was not -- turns out not to be accurate. not creating an environment of security after the successful taking out of hussein was a mistake. >> you were there at the time. you believed you would find weapons of mass destruction and you also said and i quote, these are arabs, 23 million of

the most well educated people in the arab world who are going to welcome us as liberators. were those your mistakes? >> i think in large parts in iraq people did welcome us as liberators. what we were up against was a terrorist organization that was built on the -- basically the old saddam security structures and that had a terrific capacity to intimidate people and to scare people into opposing us. >> what were your mistakes? >> i think clearly something we should have done at the beginning was to have a counter insurgency strategy. when we finally adopted one after four years, it worked amazingly quickly and brought things down to a relatively peaceful relatively stable level by 2009. and i think one of the mistakes was to leave in 2011 and not make a serious effort to keep an agreement to keep an american presence in iraq. >> let me also ask you this question which is a little bit political, but jeb bush said he

wants to be seen as his own man. he made that very clear. and yet his team of foreign policy advisers is largely staffed by people like you and former members of his brother's foreign policy team. how can he be seen as his own man when the people who are advising him promoted a foreign policy that in retrospect has largely been regarded as flawed and unpopular? >> gloria you're painting an awfully broad brush. a lot of people in that group and myself participated in the reagan administration which i think was a successful foreign policy. secretary schultz, secretary baker. there's a wide range of views. he is his own man. i think he demonstrated that quite clearly in the question and answer session after his speech where he obviously was very comfortable answering a whole range of questions. i think he demonstrated that he knows this subject, he doesn't need a lot of coaching. >> if you could give him one piece of advice about what went

wrong when you were there that should not occur again, what would you say? >> look i think it's a perennial piece of advice about any time you use force you need to anticipate that as they say in the pentagon the enemy gets a vote. you can't predict what's going to happen. >> thank you so much. paul wolfowitz, thank you so much. >> your're welcome. when we come back my exclusive interview with john kasich on whether he's in the 2016 race and what republicans can do to win back the white house.

e financial noise financial noise financial noise financial noise he's the popular two-term governor of the state vital to any republican hoping to win the presidency. so it's no wonder that republican ohio governor john kasich is tiptoeing around a possible presidential bid. he showed up in the early primary state of south carolina last week where i sat down with

him. the official reason for his visit is his long standing crusade, as he calls it for constitutional amendment requiring a balanced federal budget. it's something he's been working on for decades. >> when i left washington after being budget chairman and being part of the budget deal with a $5 trillion surplus we blew the whole thing. we have to change the culture because it will eat us alive. >> is this a way for you to test the presidential waters? >> not really. the reason i came here is that i know that it would send hearts a twitter to say what is he doing? that's why i came here. >> are you going to run for president? let me ask you directly? >> i don't know. all my options are on the table and it's a process that i, you know have really not spent an enormous amount of time studying internally. look i'm not saying i won't. i'm not saying i will. i'm leaving my options out there and we'll see how things develop. i do -- gloria look i do want

the country, as much as i can, really in a humble way to tell people about what's happened in ohio and what's happened in ohio has been incredibly good. i think people need to hear about the way we think out there and what we do. >> what's your timetable? everybody's raising money? >> yeah. >> everybody's out there in early states like this. >> well i can let the pundants write me off and say it's not going to happen. i am cool with that. i'm governor of ohio. we haven't had an election decided by anything less of putting a thread through the eye of a needle. i won 86 out of 89 counties. it's a big state. i can go on my own. i will do it when i'm ready. whatever the experts say. i mean it just doesn't work that way. >> where do you fit on the republican spectrum? >> you know you figure it out. i think a lot of people have a

hard time trying to figure where i fit. i've never put myself in a box so we're balancing budgets, we're cutting taxes and guess what we're helping in the shadows, helping mentally ill, drug addicted working poor. >> it is the state of ohio which is so important in a presidential election. swing state, no republican presidential candidate, i don't have to tell you this has ever been elected without winning the state of ohio. >> probably a republican can't win presidential election without coming to ohio. if they are going to come to ohio, extremism is going to work. >> is this a formula for republicans, is that what you're saying? >> it's a formula for the country. look at problems and fix them. don't be worried about the next election. too many politicians worry about getting elected as they do their job. if they worried more about doing their job, they would get elected.

>> if you decide not to country, obviously you'd be on a list of vice presidential candidates again. >> i've been on the list of vice presidential candidates since i was 35. i pay no attention to that. >> would you have any interest in it? >> i'm interested in being governor. what do vice presidents do by the way? i think they stop traffic on the roads when they move from point x to point y. >> you should ask joe biden. >> he stopped me today. >> he was in south carolina today, too. exactly, exactly. well talk about ohio. you did win with 64% of the vote. impressive statistic 60% of women, 20% of african-americans voted for you. you look like presidential gold on paper. if you look at conservatives to vote in republican primaries, you also took the medicaid expansion money. the tea party thinks you've gone to the dark side that you're for big government.

rand paul said governors who did this think money grows on tree. >> you mean senator ron paul? >> no rand paul. >> i get them confused ron and rand. i served with ron. anyway i think what works for us in ohio we're running surpluses of $2 billion, structurally balanced. half the staets are not. >> what do you say -- >> let me go on. i cut the taxes, legislature and i by the largest cut in history. that's kind of conservatism. let me tell you another thing. matthew 25 says that it's about how you treat the widowed, how you treat the poor how you treat the hungry. how do you cloth those who have no clothes. that is a conservative position to help them get on their feet so they can assume their rightful place in our society. the faithful community i think

still is at least used to be part of the conservative movement. the conservative movement is you don't just kick people to the shadows or much them off the side of the road. >> what would you say to rand paul. >> i'm not sure i would say much to them. maybe it doesn't work in kentucky. maybe everybody is fine. maybe there are people who aren't suggest these problems. it's either pay me now or pay me later. we think giving people an opportunity to get the help they need and giving them the tools they need to rise that is conservatism. i've got as much a right as anybody in the republican party to define what conservatism means. we've cut taxes more than anybody in the country. they are wondering about my conservatism maybe i should wonder about them. >> you support common core and haven't ruled out a pathway to citizenship. how can you have those positions and win your party's nomination if you were doing to run. >> first of all, when i ran in

2010 i received self-identified conservatives 80% of their vote. i can't think of anything more conservative or more right in terms of what america is about than opportunity for everybody. >> do you think this is a problem for the republican party? >> i will tell you this if somebody comes into ohio and they are extreme, i don't think they are doing to win. we don't operate that way in ohio. >> let me move to foreign policy. >> sure. >> is hillary clinton's foreign policy experience an asset for her? it seems to be kind of hard to match as lou at the lineup of republicans so far. >> i don't want to get into hillary. i like hillary. i'm not ever going to be for her for president. you you know gloria foreign policy does matter. hopefully whether i do this or not, i can have somewhat of a voice when it comes to the fact that america seems to be in retreat. here is the tragedy.

i talk to people who really are kind of bipartisan folks who study these issues. a lot of our friends, allies and even our enemies are wondering where is america, what's happening to it. we are a moral force in the world. when we decide to leave or double talk or paint red lines and walk away from them we develop credibility problems. >> how would you handle this differently from the way -- >> honestly i think the western world needs to be united and we need to invite our friends in the arab world together and we do need to develop a plan. we're not going to solve this problem just by bombing. i think we should be part of an effort to deal with this problem before it gets much worse. >> so you would consider boots on the ground? >> sure sure. >> americans don't want that. >> americans will go for leadership that makes sense. our job as public officials is not to put our finger in the air, our job is to listen and

then lead. >> so you would say to the american people. >> first of all, i'm not president now. i'm not making a speech tonight in the oval office. i'm suggesting to you that if at some point dealing with isis mark my words, john kasich you hear from him again, at some point it will require boots on the ground from the world to deal with this problem. i would rather deal wit sooner than later. you don't just go running over there. you've got to have a battle plan figure out exactly what you're going to do. i would never suggest we participate in nation building convert people to our way of life. we need stability and we need to stop this. >> if you were president and netanyahu came to address congress would you meet with him? >> have a cup of coffee. why not. let him to come congress the president can meet. of course you go and talk to him. use common sense a foreign leader coming a great ally of ours. he's coming here -- was it

handled in a clumsy way, okay so it was. look get beyond that. see, that's our problem, gloria. we spend too much time trying to be politically correct, play to our cameras, play to our base. i worry about america. for the first time in my lifetime i'm worried about us. i'm worried about how our values to some degree have been eroded personal responsibility and compassion and teamwork. i worry about it. i worry about the fact we're so divided. do i think it can be fixed? i have no doubt because i saw ronl reagan do it and i've seen other great leaders throughout history. harry truman whatever party they are. they can bring us together. it can happen. >> while governor kasich has visited a number of states pushing for balanced constitutional amendment he told me he's considering traveling to one more that could be more than just a coincidence. it's called new hampshire. thanks for watching state of the

union, i'm gloria borger, fareed zakaria "gps" starts next.

this is gps, global public square. welcome to all of you around the united states and the world, i'm fareed zakaria. we have a terrific show for you today. first up is the self-declared islamic state really islamic and what's in a name anyway. >> al qaeda, isil and groups like it are desperate for jittery. legitimacy. >> h