we have breaking news on another true crime story. this is cnn tonight. i'm don lemon. robert dufrt charged with murder in l.a. after a microphone caught him confessing to three murders. he's managed to beat the odds before. can he do it again? the lead investigator says he cannot tell the truth. plus the house mom and the racist rant. my exclusive with the man behind this song. ♪ don't believe me just watch ♪ ♪ niggar ♪

>> and if you're shocked we didn't bleep that it's very a very good reason. tonight we're going to talk about what you can say, what you can't say, and who gets to decide. make sure you tune in. it's going to be an interesting conversation. i want to begin with the millionaire and the murder. kyung la has the latest on the case against robert dufrt. >> robert durst in his mugshot, an image three families have waited decades to see. he was nabbed in a hotel staying under a fake driver's license with a revolver. it appears he was preparing to head to cuba. >> are the walls coming in on him? >> i thinko. >> jim mccormick says her sister wrote in her journal that she feared her husband, that she

buysed her. she was planning to divorce her. january, 1982 they have a fight, and she vanishes. durst takes your days to report her missing to mike struck. struck never nails his prime suspect. >> it keeps coming back to the fact that we never found her body. we never had a crime scene. >> no evidence no crime scene. >> reporter: the case grows cold until 2000 when investigators re-open it. this time the millionaire flees new york to this rundown apartment in gavelston texas, hiding out, cross-dressing and posing a mute woman. for months he's speaking to no one except this one. new york investigators decide to interview her, but before she could be questioned around christmas, 2000 someone shoots her execution-style in her beverly hills home. the killer sends police this anonymous handwritten note

obtained and showed in the hbo series the jinx. the note lists berman's address and one word -- cadaver. >> when she died what did you think? >> the witnesses, and people who have knowledges of kathy's passing. >> in the jinx, a stunning revelation by her stepson, the son comes across a letter. durst's handwriting, the killer's note to police they bear remarkable similarities down to the misspelling of beverly. in the final episode, robert is presented with a match between his handwriting and the killer's. on camera he appears unphased then walks away to the rest room his mike still on. the camera records as he talks to himself.

-- kill them all. >> durst's attorney pledged his client will be vindicated. >> bob durst didn't kill susan berman he's ready to end the speculation and have a trial. >> he waives extradition because he wants to come here as quickly as possible. but now that he's facing gun charges and drug charges in new orleans, that could slow down extradition. >> i want to ask you about gavelston, texas, because he admits that he killed a neighbor in gavelston while he was hiding out. he was put on trial. how did he dodge that murder conviction? >> yeah it's really an unusual case. he was living in gavelston, and then his neighbor disappears maurice block. his body parts washed ashore but the head doesn't wash ashore. he did get pinched for that crime, but he said that durst said that he had killed black in self-defense because the head didn't reappear because the head contained the bullets, the

jury bought the self-defense claim that he made and he was acquitted, even though he admits he chopped up the body. >> how does that happen? thank you very much. i want to bring in the lead investigator in the morris black case in gavelston. that's crazy. how does that happen? >> well thank you for having me. we thought it was a very good investigation, very solid case. um, when you spend $2 million on a defense, you get a $2 million defense team. and hats off to them but as this documentary shows, they all but admit they made up these stories, even the defense team said we made up these stories, we made the then district attorney into a mythical person a bad person you know the big bad wolf and they ran with it. basically admitting that they lied that durst was scared to fly into york because he was scared of her, which was all lies. and parts of their defense team

even admitted such. but they were able to convince that jury that the only thing they were supposed to look at is exactly what happened at the time morris was killed. anything after that like the cutting up of the body and the disposing of the body parts, that was for another jury. and i believe that was wrong. i think the jury had to look at everything. but they chose to look at just part of the case and not all of it. >> so you think, number one, he outmoneyed you, to buy a better defense than most people? >> unfortunately, i've come to believe that there's two sets of laws in this country. those that people have money, and those for the people that don't. and i think that when you -- like i said -- >> explain that. why is that? >> i think when you have a $2 million defense team you get a better defense than if it's a public defender defending you. and while that may not be fair or it may be fair who knows, i just don't think that a lot of times what happens in our

courtrooms today in society, that's not what the courtrooms were designed for. our courtrooms were designed that when that case is over with justice was served. in this case, i don't believe, and the vast majority of this country does not believe that justice was served. >> when you watched the jinx what did you think? >> when i saw the ending and not only just the ending but the whole -- he tells a whole bunch of lies in it. at the end of it i felt vindicated. i felt like um that he um a large weight had been lifted off my shoulders, because i felt all along -- and i still believe to this day in my heart -- he's responsible for the death of three people. i'm hoping that los angeles puts a great case together. the district attorney there has

a great reputation. but they're going to be -- you can bet that if he had $2 million to spend in galveston in 2003 he'll have a $4,000 defense team this time around. so they'll be facing the best of the best. >> when we were talking about susan berman when she was killed in california, he was in california but they couldn't place him in los angeles, right? >> that's correct. the investigators for los angeles even said you know we can put him in california. i just can't put him in l.a. that's prior to the -- being able to trace him back to the cadaver letter. >> okay so we've got his wife in westchester county in new york we have susan berman in california and then we have morris black, which was in galveston, which is the one that he got off for, three different states he was able to elude authorities. you've been talking about how much money he has to buy a

defense. he has more money now, by the way. we'll talk about that. but why was he living in a $300 apartment? >> it is my belief that when new evidence came into westchester county and the district attorney re-opened that investigation because of a tip, bob told his sister wendy, i'm going to go under ground. i think at that point, he started going around setting up safe houses like he did in galveston. he also did the same thing in new orleans, dressed up as a mute female -- >> said he was a family member -- >> told his sister he posed as dorothy in galveston, a girl he went to high school with. in new orleans, he posed as dixie wynn another female from his past. but i think what happened was, he went around setting up these safe houses in the event that new york was to find her --

indict him or bring charges against him, he'd have safe houses to jump to. he also set up bank accounts in bogus names and stuff like that. >> i should have played this earlier, but i'm going to play it now. this is the verdict. this is the verdict in your case. >> yes, sir. >> the verdict of the jury is such. we the jury find the defendant robert durst not guilty. >> what was going through your head then? >> shock and disbelief. but if you look at that clip he is the most surprised person in that courtroom. he even asked his attorney -- >> is that why you were smiling? >> to watch his demeanor he fully expected to be found guilty. even he did and he asked his attorney did they say "not guilty"? so he's known all along what he's done. >> do you think he knew he was miked when he went into that bathroom? >> i think without a doubt he knew the mike was there.

now whether he -- some want to say he wants to get caught or something like that i don't know. who knows what goes on in bob's mind. but i do know that they did a fabulous job putting this - together. every time they interviewed him, because it was several interviews the mike was explained to him. he signed a release, explaining it in front of his lawyer with his lawyer present. the mike has a light on it to show that it's hot. i think that when he was presented those two envelopes, and the writing, it shook him up. you can tell it shook him up upon. >> we'll talk about that other evidence in the next segment, but you mentioned andrew injureeky and he was on television this morning and he said they talked to their legal advisers about what to do as a filmmaker. he said they had more leeway

often than investigators or police officers. is he correct in that? >> to a -- yes. because sometimes when -- as a police officer, i'm talking to somebody if they're in custody, if they revoke their rights at any time they can say, i want to talk to a lawyer. so you're limited to what they say. now, this was a voluntary interview that he wanted to have that he searched out andrew jureky to do this even against his lawyer's advice. >> and with a lawyer saying don't answer that question, my client doesn't have to talk about that he's just doing an interview. >> correct. so in that respect, andrew had a lot more leeway. >> things that are not admissible in court, you can talk about in an interview, which may lead to something else? >> as long as he's there

voluntary, even if he's a suspect, as long as it's voluntary and he's free to leave, it's an open conversation. once you restrict their ability to get up and leave, then it's not an interview, it's an interrogation. >> we'll see what happens. thank you very much. >> thank you. >> we have a lot more on the robert dufrt case including the discovery of a key piece of evidence. plus it's a word that's used millions of times every single day, but some people believe nobody should ever use the n word. we'll talk about that what you can and knt say. and the prosperity preacher who asked his flock to buy him a very expensive, multi, multi, multimillion dollar plane. that dares to work all the way until... the am. new aleve pm the only one to combine a safe sleep aid plus the 12 hour strength of aleve.

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a suspect has been arrested in the shooting of two police officers in ferguson last week. police say jeffrey williams admits that he fired the shots. the claim, he wasn't targeting the officers. we'll get into that in just a few minutes. but first, i want to talk about robert durst now charged with murder. jeffrey toobin is here mark o'mara as well. and gest ford of the st. louis police association. jeffrey toobin robert durst, he sought out these documentaries to do these interviews. why would he do that? is that ego?

>> because he's nuts. i mean this is a guy who is nuts. i mean he was caught urinating in a drug store recently. he's a crazy person who is also it certainly appears, deeply deeply evil. and people who are crazy and evil do unpredictable things. fortunately, he did something that will lead finally, to his being locked up for the rest of his life. >> and crazy like a fox. you said he's nuts. maybe he's crazy like a fox because he's gotten away with it appears, at least three murders. i want to play some audio that the producers discovered just a few months ago. here it is. >> what the hell did i do? i killed them all, of course.

>> he said i killed them all. is this going to be admissible in court? is a jury going to hear that? >> i think they will because it's a voluntary statement by him. there's a slight expectation of privacy. but it's a public rest room and he knew he had a mike on him. normally it's to law enforcement that's susceptible to exclusion, but not this one. >> how is it, in all these years, that these documentarians were able to discover this and police officers investigators, weren't? >> well i guess that's sort of the $64,000 question. i mean this is a guy who's been the focus of extensive criminal investigations of a very serious nature and how some of this is

just now surfacing, i guess falls under the category of truth is stranger than fiction. >> let's talk about this -- >> it's not just that. wait a second. there's also a question of competence here. andrew jarecki, who is the brilliant, brilliant producer and director of this series did a hell of a better job researching this case than the detectives in new york and los angeles whose job it was to research this case. i mean this is a matter of competence. i mean this was a botched pair of investigations. texas, at least they brought charges. perhaps they didn't try the best case in the world, but at least they made a case to a jury. in new york and los angeles, they didn't even make the case. and i think that speaks very ill of the people who were doing the investigation. >> the detective was just talking about it. he didn't mention the police department investigations or at least whether or not they

were -- the competence. but he did say in court that they were basically out-moneyed. if you have millions of dollars, you can get the best defense and a better defense than a public prosecutor can get you. but it was a dramatic moment in the series when the producers unearth a key piece of evidence which is a letter that robert durst wrote to susan berman his friend, and then she ends up dead in california. that was his publicist before. you can see that beverly is misspelled on the letter matching another envelope that was anonymously sent to police. they got it back in 2000 telling them where her body was. so why did they take so long? why didn't police in california why weren't they able to uncover these letters? >> well the easy answer is -- >> because they didn't do a good job. >> yeah they really didn't.

it was a little bit coincidental that berman's son came up with a plastic box of information and lo and behold there's that letter. but echo what jeff said maybe law enforcement should have reached out to family members to see if that type of evidence existed. because they would have found it 15 years ago and, i think that piece was evidence which will probably convict him now in the california case may well have done the same 15 years ago. >> here's how he reacted to that letter. look. >> so how damning is this? >> totally damning. he acknowledges in the interview that the person who wrote the cadaver letter was the killer and he acknowledges that he wrote the other letter. so if you believe the handwriting is consistent then he's acknowledging his own guilt. if i can make one point, one objection to the documentary is that the handwriting expert says

only one person could have written both of these samples. i think it's important for people to recognize that handwriting analysis is not an exact science. it's not like dna. and i think, you know casually throwing around scientific terms like certainty, is really a mistake. sure it seems like the same person wrote these two letters, but we shouldn't think that handwriting analysis is some kind of perfect science, because it's not. >> jeff i want to talk about this. there's been an arrest in the shooting of two officers in ferguson last week. what can you tell us about jeffrey williams the man accused of doing it and arrested for it? >> well the entire law enforcement community here is happy to see a dangerous gunman behind bars where he belongs. this is a pretty strong case along with his confession where he sort of i guess, vasalates

and says i wasn't shooting at the cops. i was shooting at somebody in the crowd i had a beef with. they recovered the gun under his dominion and control. they have some witnesses that led them to him. i think it's a really strong case and i'd like to just point out this malarkey about him not being a protester. the guy is at the protest. he's claiming to shoot at somebody at the protest because he knew they were there, as was he and i just don't buy this argument that he's not a protester. >> there are alleged photos going around showing him at the protest, they have not been vetted by cnn. >> i've seen him and i'm confident he was with the protesters. >> thank you very much. the n word used in music and movies including this song by trinidad james. that sae fraternity house mom says she was just repeating the lyrics. is it okay for a little old white lady to use the word that

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here we go. people across the country

arguing about the n word after video of the racist fraternity chant went viral last week getting two students kicked out of the university and a fraternity banned from campus. the n word is extremely offensive to a whole lot of people maybe you are one of them. so i want to warn you now, that you're going to hear that word several times tonight. because in order to have an honest conversation about words and what they mean we have to actually say the word we have to say what we mean. here's cnn's dan simon. >> whoa whoa whoa. what the hell you think you doing, boy? get that niggar out of here! >> it's widely considered the most offensive word in the english language but we hear it in movies a lot in "django unchained." >> you and your niggar come out right now with your hands over your head and i mean right now. >> it's a staple in rap music. jay-z's music is filled with it.

♪ >> reporter: and too often it's heard in real life. ♪ >> comedian chris rock framing the issue this way. whenever the word niggar is spoken, it's always followed by the same question. can white people say niggar and the correct answer is not really. >> but should the n word ever be spoken at all? is there ever an okay context? like the s.a.p. fraternity house mom who says she was singing along to a rap by trinidad james. >> it's still problematic. she's using the term and at the same time likely drawing on ugly racial stereotypes. >> uc berkeley proffer is an expert on race relations and says using the n word in even casual circumstances can be extremely hurtful. >> it sums up a basic assault on

african americans. so to casually bandy it about, wow. >> but some say the focus should be on trying to remove the stigma and hate. we turned a word that was very ugly and hateful into a term of endearment. >> jay-z telling oprah in 2009 why he and fellow artists feel comfortable using the n word in their music. >> pretty much took the power out of the word. because if we just start removing words from the dictionary just make up another word the next day. >> oprah could not have disagreed more. >> i think about black men who were lynched and that's the last word they heard. so that comes from my generation. >> and the debate has another new wrinkle. >> i started selling drugs when i was 9 years old in philadelphia. >> terrence howard the star of the new fox hit "empire" is reportedly upset that writers have excluded the n word from the show. why is tv showing something different from the reality of the world? why is there censorship that

stop people from hearing everyday talk? ♪ ♪ there will never be a niggar at sae ♪ >> what was supposed to be a private chant has gone public. it raises the question. how many others are doing the same thing? using the n word in a hateful way, behind closed doors when the cameras aren't rolling? dan simon, cnn, san francisco. >> here we go. you saw that sigma epsilon house mom singing along to trinidad james song, and trinidad james joins me now, exclusively. you look good i like it. >> how you doing? >> great. i want to play this for you. >> sure. >> this is a house mother of sae, and she is singing part of your song. here it is. ♪ niggar niggar niggar ♪ >> what do you think when you

see that? >> i mean i honestly think that somebody's trying to be sarcastic and play a joke on this old lady because she looks old and she looks like she's drunk. and i've seen that actually two years ago when that came out. and i didn't say anything about it because life is just so much bigger than that. life is so much bigger than that. it it's very hard like a rock and a hard place, and a catch 22 situation, when it comes to dealing with racism and that particular word. and when it comes to any racism in general. >> you said it's a catch 22. so someone like her, a white lady who said she's repeating the lyrics of your song and i debated all weekend, when i told people you were coming on all right, let me talk to you about this! first of all, do you think she's racist? or can you judge from that short clip? >> i think that she comes from racism. she's 79 years old. 79 years ago, whatever year that

is she has seen tons and tons and tons of racist acts. i mean because of her age and seeing that right there, i don't think that when she was doing that she was doing it to be a protester or anything. but it tickled her because she knows what she came from. that's how i feel about that. >> should she be allowed to say that word? >> should she be allowed to say it? >> should everyone white people black people all be allowed to say that word? >> i think that every race it's always about how you're saying it. that's what life is about. i'm focused on the future and -- >> i'm asking you because people said that you defended her. right? >> i didn't defend her. just in general. i'm way more focused on those students on the bus. that's what -- >> that was way more egregious. >> that hurt. that hurt. >> if someone, regardless of their ethnicity is singing a

song that has that word in it should they be allowed to do that? >> well don, what i want to ask the world, and what i want to ask all the rappers that been doing this forever, when you go to a show and you're performing your songs, and you're sold out, shouts out to big sean kendrick lamar album dropped last night. it's great. the first opening line on his album is every niggar's a star. that's the first thing. some of the biggest songs use it. so when you go to your show and you're performing, me personally i've never seen an artist stop the show and go you guys can't use this word. so it's just in general to get to the nitty gritty of the bottom of this if we have a problem with the word and it's going to continue to cause things, we should eliminate the word, period. because if we're going to use the word then people are going to use the word. >> i want to play your song and

let's listen to that and then we'll talk about, i think the genie is out of the bottle. but we'll talk about it. here's your song. ♪ going on my watch ♪ ♪ don't believe me just watch ♪ ♪ niggar niggar niggar ♪ ♪ don't believe me just watch ♪ >> how does that make you feel? >> when i did that song two years ago, i wasn't trying to be the person to use it for racist acts to use this song. i wasn't. not at all. i love everyone. i preach love. if you know me i have all type of friends, colombian, asian. i have no problem with no race. i love everybody and i treat everybody respectfully. >> how do you feel when you're hearing that? >> it's art. i mean, it's art. >> okay this is when -- you asked me how i feel. >> yes. >> i feel you get it.

sometimes i feel like you're a character. >> okay. >> because you don't dress like that all the time. >> correct, sir. >> you're putting on a character. and you realize that. people at home don't always realize that. i don't think the word should be ban period i don't want to ban anything. but i also think that we bastardized the word or fetishize the word too much. and as african americans, people think you're taking about power i think we've given the power away from that word. every time someone says it whichever way, you have to debate about how they said it. i just don't think we should use it so much. we should be more careful about when and how we use it? >> i'm not upset with that. because in general, when you take so much time, i don't see an end right now. i'm proud to be from trinidad. and honestly we don't teach racism in trinidad. we don't. i don't disregard racism here in america. i grew up and love america it's great. i understand it's a part of the

culture. but i honestly feel that this conversation right now is for the youth and the future. because those are the people who i want to help them to realize that man, you shouldn't think like that. like those kids on the bus. i don't care about that old lady because she's an old lady. i know an old black women who -- >> exactly, if they're singing your song they're going to say the word. >> so like whatever. you can't tell old people what to do. but the youth, what i care about the most i honestly feel that i need them to understand that it's a way that you need to treat each other and get that racist stigma out of your head. it's like a chip that you get put in your back when you're a kid. in social studies class in fifth grade. >> we're not done. don't go anywhere. do you want me to read this? or we're just going to come back. we're going to talk -- we'll be right back. the real question that needs to be asked is "what is it that we can do that is impactful?"

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n word means different things to different people. for many it's about the evil of

slaveries. for other it's a part of hip-hop and pop culture. here to debate it is ben ferguson and trinidad james. >> hey hey hey. >> -- is back with us. >> mark i'll get you guys in first. you know you realize that you're here on cnn and you've done interviews. you know people just read headlines and they'll take you out of context and that will stick with you. >> definitely. and that's the whole point of us getting a chance to talk. because as many people as we have bashing us that's why we talk about it what we meant and what we're trying to get across. >> because there was a headline that said i defended her as well. >> i'm not defending her. >> there's a context. >> it's like i'm not focused on her. i'm focused on the students. >> can you come here and be my co-anchor? >> many anytime. >> what do you guys thing, mark? >> i think it's a great interview. i was glad to hear trinidad

explain himself because headlines often distort what people say and what they mean. and the pressure on rap artists to burden their language. nobody asked quentin tarantino in "pulp fiction" and also in django to limit his words. >> but he has gotten criticized for that. >> some people are now saying they're critical of him using, they're not critical of the word being used in the movies per se. whereas with rappers, they're saying rap music shouldn't have the n word in it or tv shows shouldn't have it in it. i find it fascinating that white people are trying to legislate the word for black people. saying none of you people should use it. no, that's not your call to make. >> the question comes down to this do we want the n word being used in society, or do we want to stop the n word which

has become so as it is racially divisive. and i'll be candid with you. trinidad -- >> did you just say the n word is -- >> no i'm saying right now is the proof of it. look at all of this and everything that's gone on and we all condemn it when it's said but then you want to keep the word alive. and i'll be honest with you, i think you know that we should probably get rid of the n word but in reality, i think many rappers are afraid that they'll lose out on money and sales and street cred if they stop using the word. >> no no no. first of all, how you guys doing, mark and ben? >> good. good to see you, bro. >> welcome to the conversation. >> what do you think about what he said? >> that has nothing to do with it. >> then why would you keep using it? >> we use the word because that's how we came up. we came up using the word like people came up using the word in the wrong way. we came up using the word how

you doing, my niggar. that means, when i call you that you do not feel they hate you. it's love. [ all speak at once ] >> trinidad what if ben said to you, what's up, my niggar? >> what i would tell you, if i honestly thought that you were my niggar then you are my niggar. >> that's not okay though. [ all speak at once ] >> if i use the n word it could quite possibly and honestly probably should cost me my career. and i don't understand why, when we know how divisive this word is why we would not have people like you, trinidad -- your community, your people look up to you, young people look up to you and you're rapping about the word and making money on it, and they think they should be rapping the word and saying the word as well -- >> hold on for one second. let trinidad respond.

>> you're giving the word too much power. i'm making money off -- >> i'm not using it. you are. >> i'm making money off of doing music and being creative sir. i'm not making money just because i use the n word. nobody goes to buy an album because it's full of the n word. no, sir. >> trinidad you wouldn't be on this show tonight if it wasn't for using the n word in your wrap music. let's be honest. >> go ahead, mark. >> no he wouldn't be on the show if a white woman hadn't said the n word on a tape. so that's not fair, we're putting the burden on him. white people were saying niggar before trinidad james was born. to say it's become divisive is absurd. it's born out of slavery and white supremacy. >> i'm agreeing with you. >> no, you're not. >> just listen. . >> this is the problem with race and racism sometimes white people need to just listen. what i'm saying is the n word isn't divisive white supremacy

was divisive. slavery was divisive. maybe it's not white people's position to tell black people who to say. i'm going to call him my niggar because he is. and the difference is trinidad james has gone to war, he lives in a world where police might shoot him on the street. we share a collective condition known as niggar. white people don't. i'm not saying it should be illegal for white people to use it. i'm saying you shouldn't want to use it after all the exploitation and -- >> the reason you wouldn't use the n word ben, is out of respect? >> i think it's a racially god-awful word that we should get rid of. and we shouldn't be teaching it to young kids no matter what their race is because it is so hurtful and as long as we continue to use it it is going to continue to hurt people's lives. and we should join together and say, this is a word we can all

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>> okay so i live in new york city which everybody lives here all different ethnicities. so i see white people going up to each other, or hispanic people going up to each other, going, what's up, my niggar? is that okay? trinidad? >> man, any time you use -- okay this is my stance. ben, i hear where you're coming from. mark we definitely hear where you're coming from. but my stand on everything is that all this racism can be beat with love. racism can be beat with respect. and for like i said to you ben, if i came up to you or we were partying out one night after this show we go partying. and somebody said you know ben? or whatever. some guys ask me about ben. and i go ben, that's my niggar.

i don't mean anything at all bad by that. and i just saved your life. >> but ben can be fired pretty much for using that word just because of the color of his skin? >> and that's why i said it's a two-sided thing. that's why i said my biggest point when it comes to racism and that's why i try to stay out of it is to overcome that with love and with respect for people and just watch how you're using words, context period. >> trinidad here's my core thing. when you look at where we are in society today -- >> yes, sir. >> -- we can have a conversation that you just described. but the fact still stands you use that word everyone laughs. i use that word my career is over. and it is an unbelievably especially i think among young people one of the most divisive words they can use in society. it is. every time someone says it we have massive news about it if it's the wrong color skin. so why do we not get rid of it?

>> that leads me to my next point and maybe i'm just speaking of the way i am. if you call me that word i'm going to laugh at you, like you're really stupid. is that all you have? you call me that or some derogatory word about gay people it does not phase me at all, because you're showing your ignorance once you go to that level? >> i get that. but i also think there's certain points where you have to look at the word and you have to see how people -- look at what it meant to oprah. oprah said when she hears that word and we played that clip earlier and she said this is what it means to me. so i think when you have a word that means so many different things to so many different people but the mass majority of them are incredible hurtful, why would we want to keep the word alive? >> we understand that but maybe what i'm try iing to get to should we just not get so upset about the use of that word and that would help take the power away mark?

>> i think words do have meaning and words have history and we can't divorce words from their context. that's why it's hard 400 years later for white people to use the n word and it not be seen as deeply entrenched in a white supremacist legacy. black people have used the word in ways that have been different, for redemptive purposes for ironic purposes and also sometimes for painful purposes. it's said that martin luther king jr was looking for andy. he said little niggar where have you been? we wouldn't accuse him of hating black people. context matters. only in the frame of a white supreme sift context would we being talking about the n word not being fair to white people. >> you haven't heard a word i'm saying. i'm saying that if we have a word that is this divisive towards different people, it

means something different to you than it does to don than it does to oprah, than it does to trinidad why would you want to keep it around? >> why would you think you have the capacity to legislate what black people do? >> i'm not -- >> i've got to go. but trinidad are you still going to use that word in your private life and in your music? >> yes, sir. >> just watch. >> thank you, guys and all of you are my -- >> you can do it don! you can do it. >> all right. so we're out of here. thank you, guys. i'm don lemon. thanks for watching. ac 360 starts right now. the am. new aleve pm the only one to combine a safe sleep aid plus the 12 hour strength of aleve.

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good evening. thanks for joining us. we begin with breaking news. robert durst has officially been charged with first-degree murder, that makes him eligible for the death penalty. that is the latest development in a case that is so full of drama and tragedy, the fact that he was arrested over the weekend in connection with the cold case murder of his friend 15 years ago, isn't even the most extraordinary detail to come out in just the last few hours and days. for more than three decades, there have been questions about this man, durst, the millionaire son of a new york million real estate mogul. there were questions whether he had anything to d