happily ever happy, and hopefully that is the future for all atheists. ♪ and that is the rainbow we are waiting for ♪ ♪ it is a bright bright sunshiney day ♪ ♪ it's going to be a bright sunshiney day ♪ -- captions by vitac -- www.vitac.com p eighteight minutes is how long it tookr took forp took for atook for a routine flight to turn into tragedy. airbusairbus a320 withr airbus a320 withp airbus a320 withairbus a320 with airbus a320 with 130 people aboard slamspaboard slams into the alps, and kills everyone aboard. theppicture of horror picture of horror with the p wreckage scattered on the mown wreckage scattered on the mountainside. that ispthat is what we know right now, but so much reman s a mystery right now. and right now, we have aviation experts standing by to answer the questions for you and why so many distress calls? and what does the eight-minute

plunge tell us? was it intentional? what went wrong? we will answer all of it for you. and cnn reporters are live throughout the areas, and nic robertson is there, and we have richard quest with me here in new york and fred pleitgen in dusseldorf. richard, what do we know happened? >> we have absolutely no idea. it was 40-some-odd minutes into the flight, and it had reached the cruising altitude of 38,000 feet and about two minutes after it did, that it sudden starts to descend. there is some dispute as to what rate of speed it is descending. some suggest it is a consistent descent at around 3,000 feet per minute and one or two reports suggesting it is more erratic, but we have no idea what happened at that moment. >> and even though it was 8,000

foot plunge we have no idea the if it was erratic. >> it was going down 3,000 feet per minute give or take, and now one or two people saying it is more erratic, and if you average it out it is more than the range of 1,500 to 5,000, and we don't know. what is significant in this area is that was this a koncontrolled gradual descent albeit e steep by the auto pilot under descent of the aircraft or out of control? we have no idea certainly of the event that led to the descent. >> we do know that something happen and it obviously crashed. if it were emergency situation, why no emergency distress signal sent? >> in eight minutes, there is plenty of time to hit the switch

and mayday, mayday, and in that eight minutes, the ground kon el troll was constantly demanding what happened? this is not any of the other incidents, because it is highly controlled air space, and the moment that plane left 38,000 feet and in danger of going through other airways, air traffic control wanted to know what is happening? what rare you doing? why? no reply. >> so any sign of a deliberate action to take down the plane, because you might know if it was steady or kon e troeld or e rat erratic, and any sign of deliberate action to take down the plane? >> we have no evidence whatsoever, but am i taking itoff of the table, not at all. and lufthansa aircraft well main tandtained and well controlled air space, and the safest part of the flight and you cant not

take anything off of the table. excuse me. >> and we should know? >> well, it depends upon what it is, but it was the cockpit voice recorder, you will know very soon what was leading up to the event that took place. >> and richard, standby, because i want to bring in some more folks, and richard, i will need your help here and i want tote go to nic robertson live in the french alps and earlier in the show i said that the plane seemed obliterated and were the ofishls able to recover anything? we know they found one black box, but anything else to recover? >> well, they told us that they have been able to fly over for the recovery teams. they have seen the human remains on the ground, they say, but they have not recovered any of the victims so far, and the crash site is ten mi miles into the mountain, and in the direction from me here, and when

the sun comings up in the morning, depending on the weather conditions, that is when the rescue workers goat the site to see if there is a snowfall in the night which is a concern, because it has been raining in the altitude and up there well could have been snowing. one key worry is will the fog be too low on the mownuntains for the helicopters to get this there and work effectively. it is a site that is really only accessible by helicopters, because you can't get in there by road, and the conditions on the area make landing for helicopters so difficult. that is why the rekovcovery we are told is going to be quite long and arduous, and none of the victims have been recovered so far, don. >> thank you, nic. standby. i want to bring in fred pleitgen, and many of the passengers were on the way to dusseldorf and what are the

relatives being told there? >> well, the first thing they were being told is that the airline tried to get them some information, and you have to understand that when the people came here initially after the crash, it was not clear whether or not the relatives were on the plane. it was not clear what happened to plane. it was not clear when they would get any information. and what is going on right now is that a crisis center has been set up inside of the dusseldorf airport airport, and they are getting psychological counseling, but this is a country right now completely in shock. one thing that is coming up is that more and more of the victims' stories are coming out, and the identities, and that is making it more real for the tragedy in germany, and one thing that people are talking about is that to a whole spanish language school class was killed in this plane crash. it comes from about 1 1/2 hours north of where i am from a small

town that was 16 high school kids and two of the teachers on the plane, and of course, that entire town is absolutely devastated and in shock. there is other similar stories as well. it is a nation right now devastated by this and at the same time you have the airline trying to come to grips with that, and one thing that the airline said today is that apparently some of the pilots have refused to fly today. some of the pilots who fly the a-23 aircraft did not feel fit to fly on this day, and unclear if they had safety concerns or whether it was due to the fact that some of them had known the pilots in the incident, but they said they were not fit to fly in this incident and the airlines respect that. >> and that is fred pleitgen from near that small town. and now, bring ging our reporter

from barcelona, spain, and how is the airline handling the families there in spain? >> well, right now, there is a number of questions that the airlines are slow in circulating the information to news agencies. for instance, what nationalities were on board. we knew germans and spaniards, but we know now latin americans on board, and colombians, and an opera singer from kazakhstan and maybe eight or nine different nationalities, and it transcends nationalities and there were

teenagers and adults and some were returning from school programs, and others were opera singers returning to their hometown and others were trade businesspeople returning to their hometowns this in germany, and so what they are trying to do is to give the information to the families and give it to the press. we were pressing lufthansa why they were delayed, and today, in germany, lufthansa say it is probably a issue with air traffic control that a slot was not available. but for lufthansa, there was this the airplane grounded because of the aircraft was grounded because of some safety issues with the nose of the

plane. >> and as you hear from some people -- thank you carlkarl penhaul. what are you making of the opera singers, and we will hear more about them but richard quest, what are you seeing? >> well you are seeing what you see in all plane crashes, an element of confusion. this is very early, less than 24 hours. and think about lufthansa, because they have to get all of the records of the aircraft together to give to the investigators, and keep the families, and make sure they are given information and those who want to to get to the area, and lufthansa is doing that, and keep the press inform eded and speak to various presidents. lufthansa is right in the middle of the storm. >> and not the least of which is to try to find out what happened and gather the bodies and get them recovered. >> priority. >> and among the passengers aboard this doomed plane are two opera singers.

they were performing on the rhine. maria radner and oleg bryjak. joining us on the phone is a friend of oleg. we are so sorry for the news. how are you doing? >> i am in a complete shock. nobody knows how to deal with it. >> yes, understandable. so many lives were lost. and can you tell us about oleg as an artist as a man? >> well he was an incredibly warm heart and generous artist and friend. he was at home and i mean he has been with the ep semable since 1996 -- ensemble since 1996 and sung the repertoire

and had serious roles, a hand an incredible sense of humor. he was warm heart and generous man and make sure that every christmas we got some present from him. am amazingly enough, there was one christmas where he was not feeling well and could not get a present to me in the office, and made a point of comeing on christmas eve and driving over to my home just to bring me a present of caviar which he had brought back from a trip to russia and that just shows you how e generous he was. >> i understand that you had to break the news to the rest of the company, and you had worked with him from 1996 and how hard is this on everyone? >> it was very hard indeed. i broke the news to the ensemble, and we had a piano dress rehearsal, and i summoned

everyone to the stage and told them the tragic news. they were stunned. people started crying. so that we just couldn't go on with the rehearsal. i canceled it. everyone was shocked. we have had people in the ensemble who died because they had incurable illnesses, but this we have never experienced this someone ripped out of life in such a tragic experience. >> stephen harrison our thoughts are with you, thank you. >> thank you very much. thank you very much indeed. >> we have much more on the deadly crash in the french alps. when we come back, are you taking a risk when you fly a budget airline. our guests will weigh in on that that. and the life-saving surgery for angelina jolie and our ex experts will weigh if in if it is right for other women.

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foreman? >> it dropped so fast that it wouldn't have been notice ed byd by the passengers until they saw the mountains out in the windows. so it is not catastrophic like a wing or tail dropping off. so it would not have are come in like it did, and debris would have been spread over a wider area. so what is another theory? the plane would have been guided down as they tried to fix another problem. so this gradual descent was maybe that this crew was trying to deal with something, and getting closer to the ground without realizing it or trying to bring it in a controlled loss of altitude and do something wit, with it but if that is the case why not turn away waiway from the mountains and go to something else within striking range are. and is it possible that the crew

didn't know that the plane was losing altitude this way? it happens, because there are crews so distracted by a problem or maybe an instrumentation trouble where they do not get the air speed or the right altitude and dealing with that they do not realize that they are dealing with it deep into trouble until it is far too late. >> thank you shgs, tom. i want to turn to david soucie and also our aviation officer expert dan duke and he has flown this the navy and also richard quest is back with us and david the aub-- david aubin is

also joining us. so david, this has happened before this is. >> yes, it has happened before when the pilot was told to put it on auto pilot, and that is not what happened when the airplane continued to descend and as richard quest said, there was some communication from the air traffic control to the aircraft trying to reach them, so it rules that out in my mind because if they were continuing to try to reach them, there was something else going on up there, a because that would have gotten their attention. >> since 1972, and all of the redundancy, and tragedies, and richard, that is a real possibility that i the didn't know what was going on? >> no, no, that is not what he said. what happens is that you are fixated and you lose your situational awareness, and you r are so focused on justing that problem, and talking amongst

yourselves and dealing with it that you don't real izize the process has begun. >> one of the things is that they don't realize they were in trouble at all? >> well maybe they did realize it, but they did not realize they were descending at such a rate and if they did realize they were descending, but did they realize over the alps and such a danger. we don't know, but if they are so fixated on a particular problem, and thaey are looking at the manuals, and now hay happen to say, i don't think that is what happened, because there were no radio calls out or no acknowledge acknowledgments coming back in, but the concept of becoming fixated out on the instruments and within the cockpit is well known. >> dan, you are the expert on this plane, and with all of the redundancy and what is the possibility, and what do you think happened in this case? >> well, it is obviously too early to tell but i think that what richard says and david says

kind of point s tos to the incapacitation sort of situation, and something in my mind made it so that crew was not capable of reacting. they didn't do several things that i would have expected if they had an emergency. they would have turned the airplane back towards a suitable field if they had a decompression, they would have started down. if they lost consciousness, they were incapacitate and the airplane would have continued to do what they told it last and they would have flown that stable path. >> and something would have gone on and some kind of alarm to tell them they were getting too low? >> well, this is the reason that this descent was initiate and something happened for them to say that we have to start the airplane down and the incapacitation may have started later or resulted into the smoke and fire or whatever and pure

speculation speculation, and if this overwhelmed the crew, and if they got to the point where they were not situation ally aware of the terrain, and this flew over the terrain, and over the alps and aware of it over the point where they were at. >> and if weather has to be be a factor, and whether it is a clear day and flying in the alps and you can be so fixated on the instrument panel that you don't knownotice the mountains in the alps? >> well, maybe it is a difficult problem, and we don't know is the short answer. and the other thing to keep in mind is that as that plane is flying along, they are getting calls from the ground and they are not responding. now we know that we have also got to wait, and see, and i mean, we have talked about it many times you and i, the acas

the airport reporting system and we have not heard if there were any reporting signs of any systems that were failing. it is very early in the investigation, and less than 24 hours. >> and any of this indicate foul play to you, david soucie? >> no, it doesn't actually at this point, and again as richard says, it is too soon to the know but the only thing that does concern me, as dan duke said if they were incapable of respond ing responding. now, that can mean a lot of things from incapacitation to the pilots or mean that they were held at gunpoint or taken from the cockpit itself and a lot of things that could play into it that would be foul play, but no indication of foul play element at this point. >> but dan, as they are investigating it they will compare it it to other recent crashes, and with one that resembles it most in rekrentcent history? >> you know, i don't know of one in recent history that does

this, but maybe one of the other gentlemen would have one to go on, but i don't know of one like this in recent history. >> well no shgs, it is a recent situation where a plane falls out of the sky in the cruise or descends out of the sky in the cruise. they are so few and far between that they are either bombs and terrorism, and catastrophic failures and the ones that aren't are airasia and we don't have the results yet. >> and they were at cruise altitude and attempting to climb, and we don't know why yet, but that situation did involve other than takeoff or landing situation. >> and stand by, because budget airlines, is that safe? they save you a lot of money, but at what cost? maintenance, training? possibly. we will get you some answers next.

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was operated by a low-cost part of lufthansa germanwings. and the low-budget aircraft that the crashed into the java sea is the one that crashed into the sea. >> reporter: the slashing of cost costs, does it mean sacrificing training and safety? >> it does not mean that a low-cost carrier is low-cost on safe safety. safety is the biggest advertisement on airlines. >> low budget airlines do cut costs with by charging for leg room and luggage and also by paying pilots less. >> they are low-cost, because they don't pay as much to the crew, and it does not attract a

high higher level of experienced pilot. it does not mean unsafe but they have less experience. >> reporter: experts say pilots who work for low-past pilots may fly more days than the counterparts at larger airlines but the airplanes are constantly maintained. >> it does not necessarily mean on the safety whether the aircraft is newer or older. >> reporter: and though the plane that crashed today involved a 24-year-old plane, the newer low-budget carriers have new fleets. >> the low budget carriers have more flexible to take on the newer aircraft with the better efficiency rate torg use of less fuel or the lesser efficiency expense than a larger carrier. >> reporter: that make ss for

bigger profits. and though the lower cost of international airlines have made headlines for crashes, well known lower brands for the u.s. have good safety crashes. southwest for instance has never had a big crash, and most flyers are not thinking of crash records, but they are thinking of the cheaper fares. christina, new york. >> thank you. now we are joined by an aviation attorney as well as joining us is richard quest. are they as safe? >> no. it is up to the regulator in the country to ensure the safety of the industry, and that is why whether it is southwest or jetblue or ez jet rion air or scoot or goal or whatever it is

up to the regulator, and the regulator's job to make sure that every plane that is going into the air is safe. >> and so, less money, steven does it necessarily translate into less safe? >> no, it is difficult to generalize and i generallying a e gree with richard. it depends upon the environment they operate. in southeast asia where we have had unfortunate string of accidents, and many in that area where because it is growing so fast and trying to attract the pilots so quickly, they may cut corners on the training, and hire pilots with less experiences, and some on the fringes and the equipment older, it is not a fair statement the here, because lufthansa is one of the greatest airlines in the world, and certainly the subsidiary is operating safely and nothing indicates that there was nothing wrong with the pilots at this early stage. >> but you say that germanwings, the plane had a maintenance check yesterday, and that

concerns you why? >> well, it concerns me, because when the planes come out of the maint maintenance check, and we are looking at the e scope of the maintenance, and the scope we will have to look at, and the sea check that was performed is a comprehensive maintenance check a check, and so they will look into that, and as the earlier guest said that since you kcan rule out no indication of whether there was a pilot issue per se and there was no terrorism evidence at this stage, as the only things that look like at an early stage are product problems and there could be maintenance, but more likely than not, it is often some other product issue which would explain possibly if the pilots didn't respond, and if they were incapacitated and there were other instances like this and there were other guests saying if there were o other altitude incidents, and mh-70, and we still don't have all of the information, but it was an altitude incident and certainly silk air was at

altitude as well, so it is not unprecedented. >> richard, you wanted to to get in? >> well he makes a perfect point. germanwings, and it is lufthansa and this little subsidiary is backwards and forward with lufthansa, and never a moment when the germanwings could be anything other than the lufthansa group. and yes, its pilots are paid less than the lufthansa main but that is the goal, because it is a point-to-point carrier like southwest, and avoiding the hub of frankfort and munich. >> and so we vhave this 320, and the airbus 3320 operate pd by the airasia airbus, and that is the biggest a-320 customer and 16 162 people on board there died. and 6200 of the planes are in service around the world, but asia is a fast-growing market. is there a concern about the growth in asia from budget airlines? >> i think that there is a

concern in the certain countries about the rate love growth, yes. there has been an issue of that and whether or not infrastructure is keeping up, and training is keeping up, but the alarms are ringing and action has been taken. >> and steven you have worked with vicktims of many air disaster, and once -- it is so early on but once they get through the initial grief, who should families look for help? >> well, at the early stage, the focus has to with been to families, and primarily, and secondaryily to try to prevent another tragedy to prevent the aircraft or the procedures or the operational procedures in question but as far as the families, they don't get over this. it is mh-33 00 -- mh-370 families a scar and it is not something they will ever get

over and it is for the airlines to be transparent. and in france the authorities were relatively good for the e keeping of the families informed. i hope in this case they are transparent, and releesase the cob pith video recordings, and also the flight data information, because it provides answer s tos to the families, but it is a long and never-ending process of grief for these families. >> thank you, gentlemen. i want to read this, because germanwings have cancelled a small number of flight, because some of the crew were hesitant to fly. and so they have canceled a number of flights because of the reluctance of flight crew members to fly, and they have respected the wishes and canceled several flight and that is the wishes of the germanwings germanwings. >> and now, coming up, angelina jolie has life saving surgery

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and now after a double mas act me last year angelina jolie

has had her ovaries removed, and now withe are joined by a surgeon. how are you in. >> well. >> in this op-ed she said that she had her fallopian tubes and ovaries removed. i went through what sthou sands of women went through, and i told myself to be calm, and i had no reason to not to see my children grow up and meet my grandchildren. i feel grounded in my decision and i know that my children won't have to say my mom died of ovarian cancer. those are powerful words. >> they take your breath away. they are powerful and true. >> and when she told you that she would get this surgery, what is your reaction? >> well, i had a moment of internal applause like yes, you have traveled down this brka

road with generosity and so proud. >> and you mentioned that her mom died in her 40s and grandmother in the 50s, a ndnd so she is a carrier of the gene. and this will reduce her risk of cancer by 50%, and the overall risk by 77%, so explain the gene mutation and how it explains breast and ovarian cancer? >> the gene does not cause cancer as it allows it to the happen. we all have the brka gene, and so when it happens, they are watching the breast and the ovarian dna, and when changes occur, the cells will swoop in and mutate. and brka will swoop in and make it cancer and now without that,

it will just be a normal cell. >> today, on "the talk" kelly osbourne said she has that gene and she will take akction. >> i have the cancer gene, and my mom made us all be tested because when she had it and went through her kans e and i will go through this, because i want to have my children and i want to support them and i am a child of a kanscancer survivor, so on that end of it as well, it is really really hard to deal with. i applaud angelina for it, because she is bringing attention it to and people will go out to be test eded for it. >> and when she speak, and people listen and because of angelina's announcement, and the

work with it, brka rates have increased 40%, and how important for people to be tested for this gene doctor? >> how important? >> it could be the most important thing that a woman ever does in her entire life in order to preserve her life. if you think about it, in these brka families generation after generation of men and women will die of kanscancers, and until recently, nobody understood it. we have it. it is a gene, and you can test for it easily and you can save your life. >> any other steps short of taking this serious, and some say drastic surgery? >> certainly. there's surveillance. so that is not prevention be but you can embark on a really rigorous path of images and blood tests so that if cancer occurs we are finding it early, and there are risks short of intervention and surgery

revolving around some medication and alternative interventions. >> downside though is that now angelina jolie is in a menopausal state, and she can no longer have children, and what side effects should she expect from this? >> well she chose to go on the hormone replacement, and so hopefully the side effects will be h minimal, and she will have hot flashes, and vaginal dryness, and she will find the right rhythm and dosages, she will sail through her life undisturbed through the side effects. >> thank you so much for helping us understand this. >> thank you. and some cancer physicians are praising her, but it is right for all women? we will get into that controversy next.

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of the issues of whether you should remove body parts. >> it is none of their business. it is her body. we talk about feminism and we have the right to choose. and that is a personal, and i think brave e decision. >> well, let's talk about this now. dr. lisa masterson who specializes in obstetrics and gynecology and fertileity, and also dr. lisa gupta who is specializing in the field with pain medicine as well, and also in the same procedure that angelina jolie underwent. and everybody is calling you dr. elisa, so your mother died of this same type of disease, and so what did you see of this? >> well, she went back to explain her decision and we have to respect women ees's

decisions, becaused on their decision based on their family history, and we ve to respect a woman's decision. and as a physician, there are other alternatives to go to but as a woman who did have a mother who died of breast cancer i might do something opposite of what angelina jolie did, but what we have to guard against of what they are calling the angelina jolie effect, and doing something because a movie star did it. it has to be your individual decision, because there are a lot of decisions out there to be maedde made, and women have to be guided through them. >> and dr. gupta, you said that it brings awareness, but you are concerned and you caution people to the look at, and consider at least a negative side of taking this what you call extreme measure measure. >> absolutely. i have patients in my own practice that deal with chronic pain after such surgeries, and what happens in these patients is that they have debilitating

pain and end up living with pain that can often lead to prescription drug use which as you know can have serious consequences. by all means i agree with her decision, but there are consequences to the invasive surgeries that have to be informed by the patients and that it cannot be taken lightly, and it is a personal decision. >> what are the alternatives, and talk about it. and dr. lisa you have mentioned some of them so that you don't have to possibly go this route of the surgery what would you recommend to your patients for it it? >> well, people minimize lifestyle choices as far as exercising decreasing the alcohol in their lifestyle and making sure they have fruits and vegetables, but there is medications, like receptive mod modulators to decrease their

risk of breast cancer as well and women are not given that information that they don't have to do something as drastic as altering the body as much as dr. gupta say ss, and not regretting that or taking menopause seriously, because even though the symptoms can be minor, they can affect a whole woman's sexual esteem or the self-esteem, and very, very important, and angelina jolie has made an educated decision, and it is important for the women to know the options, and things that seem to be taken so lightly, and mastectomy and again not just with the pain but you may not get the breasts that you like afterwards in the are reconstructive surgery, and so it is very, very important for women to weigh all of the information, and do what angelina did in the op-ed piece, make the informed decision and get all of the east-west medicine and make the decisions that are right for you is what

she is trying to say. >> and some wonder if the procedure was necessary, because some said that it showed benign tumor on one ovary and no cancer in some of the tissues, so was it u necessary, dr. gupta? >> well maybe it is necessary in some individuals, but if there is a p benign tumor, and even the surgical procedure has controversy, because the laparoscopic approach to the surge surgery has significant risk to it, and the fda is examining the products used for procedure, and that is in itself a controversy, and in addition to that the massive open procedure related to, this the recovery can be tremendous tremendous and those conversations need to occur before surgery. and those patients after surgery will require massive hospitalization, and massive

medications that can be astronomical astronomical. >> and can you talk about the e elective surgeries, because there are inherent risks for, that and we saw that with joan rivers, and angelina jolie is younger when she went e elective surgery, and what should women weigh, dr. lisa before having elective surgery? >> well, weigh the risk, and make sure that the benefits outweigh the risk, because you have to undergo general anesthesia and you can undergo damage to bowels or other organ and there is a real risk to surge surgery, and when it is elective, you have to make sure that the benefits outweigh the risks. >> yes, we understand. >> thank you, both. >> thank you. >> thank you. >> we will be right back.

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that is it for us. "ac360" starts right now. -- captions by vitac -- www.vitac.com good evening, thanks for joining us tonight. new information we are just getting in about the crash of an airliner flown by millions of people every day all around the world. the information that could shed light on the crash today of german wings 952