hink i would be in a studio. >> you're a little bit off timing. >> but now i could do medicine, i could do music i probably could even be like a teacher. without this program, i'd either be in jail or dead. >> when i see a kid have their moment it makes you realize that we're doing work that matters. new york style! >> good thr them. i'm poppy harlow. thanks for being with me tonight. smerconish is next. i'm michael smerconish. welcome to the program. the battle between religious rights and gay rights exploded this week. and in an attempt to quiet the uproar the governors of arkansas and indiana signed fixed versions of their state's religious freedom laws. potential 2016 presidential candidate and ordained baptist minister mike huckabee is taking a hard stance on the issue

saying the gay community won't rest until, quote, there are no more churches. governor huckabee thanks for being here and happy easter. >> michael, great to be with you. thank you very much. happy easter to you. >> thank you, sir. so the question of the week -- should the baker have to bake the cake for the gay couple? >> well i think the question is really whether or not a person of conscience is able to say no to something. this is not about discrimination. it's about discretion. the fact is if the baker said no you can't come into my shop you can't eat a cupcake, i'm not going to serve you a doughnut that's discrimination. but if the baker is asked to do something that would require him to do something artistic that is not within his personal convictions, of course he should be able to say i can do this but i can't do that. that would be true for anyone. >> how would you distinguish that circumstance governor from the woolworth's lunch counter circa 1960 with an african-american patron?

>> well i don't think there's any -- any comparison michael, and i think it's a false parallel. in the first place, if a person walks into a lunch counter, he doesn't walk in saying i'm gay, don't serve me. there's no one who is suggesting that a person is going to be turned away because of sexual preference. i mean i don't know of anybody who can say that that's happening in great numbers or at all, for that matter. what we're talking about is whether people who have a business and are asked to participate in a service ceremony or something along the lines of that have the artistic freedom to decline. try going to a muslim bakery and seeing whether or not they will do a same-sex wedding cake. it's not just christians. but the issue is religious liberty, whether or not people have a right to believe what they want to believe, practice their faith, and not have the government come down on them and tell them they have to do

something and beyond that to try to have people put them out of business because they don't agree with a particular view of marriage. i find that very strange that in america where we're supposed to be tolerant and have diversity, this is intolerance and a lack of diversity and a push toward uniformity. >> governor huckabee you said earlier this week it won't stop until there are no more churches and it occurred to me and i listened to the totality of that interview, that in this particular instance it wasn't the lgbt community that i think caused the reversal in both arkansas and indiana, but rather business interests. you know, traditionally republicans supporting business interests, whether it's entities like walmart in your home state angie's list in indiana. react to that alliance, the alliance between the gay, lesbian community and transgenders and those business entities that would have traditionally been in the chamber of commerce realm with

the gop. >> michael first of all, the reason those corporations put the pressure on indiana and arkansas was because to the militant gay community put the pressure on them. i found it a little hypocritical when you have companies even -- and i love walmart, big company in my home state, but they do business in china, for gosh sake. i don't think the chinese are exactly the paragone of human rights. you've got apple computer. they're selling apple computers in saudi arabia. is tim cook going to sell out of there? i don't think so. he doesn't mind making millions if not billions of dollars in cultures and countries where human rights are really an issue, and for anybody to try to draw some comparison between xa what's happening by not getting a wedding cake made and people having, you know their hands cut off or being hanged or in prison i mean that's -- i find that a stretch and i think these corporations really ought to either be consistent quit

making money from these countries that are really oppressing human rights and quit bowing to the pressure and just sell their stuff. that's what they're in business for -- sell stuff. >> but that's the argument that's made from the other side about the baker and the florist and the candlestick maker. you're in business to bake a cake. just bake the cake and go home and be a good christian, whatever that means. >> a lot of people will do that michael. they will bake the cake. but shouldn't they have the discretion? that's once again the issue. if they want to turn the business down they're not turning down the business of being open being willing to serve any customer what they've got on the shelf. again, it's the relation owls lib -- religious liberty when people are asked to do something which violates their conscience. the big confusion was it didn't guarantee the baker, the florist, the pizza maker was going to win. it just meant he would have a hearing in court. over the 22 years that riffer

has been in place, very few times has the religious objector even won. i'm not sure why democrats loved riffer in 1993 and you had al gore and bill clinton trumpeting it as wonderful and charles schumer sponsoring it and 22 years later, because of political pressure now they run from something they once embraced. i find it hypocrital. >> what's your opinion of the deal that's been announced, the parameters of the deal that's been announced with regard to iran? >> very disappointing and very frightening. i think particularly for the stabilization of the middle east. i'm not sure why we would ever think that negotiating with iran to begin with makes a whole lot of sense since they've never kept a deal they've ever made. for them to have nuclear even capability is illegal. for them to push that they're going to end up with 6,000 centrifuges instead of 19,000 michael, it's like giving a pyromaniac, you know 6,000 gallons of gasoline instead of

19,000. but he's still got a bunch of gasoline to start a fire. and you're talking about a country whose primary leader han erer who has been leading chants "death to america" and has vowed to wipe israel off the face of the map. not exactly the kind of folks you want to sit down and make nice with and assume they'll keep their bargain. i don't think they will. >> president obama said there are three choices, one to negotiate a deal such as is now being put together two is to bomb iran three is to walk away from the table. first of all, are those the three options? and if so which does governor huckabee favor? >> well the president has missed one. the fourth one, and one that was working, was to continue to put heavy saxnctions on them and bankrupt them force them to accept something other than now on their terms. i don't understand why we took p pressure off when the pressure was working. we really haven't gotten much out of this deal michael. it doesn't sound to me like that anything is happening in tehran other than laughter but there's

weeping in saudi arabia kuwait egypt, jordan and the rest of the middle east where they now understand that the americans have capitulated and will let iran move forward. somebody who is a blogger made an observation this week that i thought was interesting, that there's been more pressure to put sanctions on indiana than on iran. i thought that was a pretty wise observation. it's been a real almost distraction from something that is a whole lot more significant in terms of our national security than anything that's been occupying the front pages here. >> governor i want to show you something that the president said this week and allow you to respond to it. roll the tape please. >> so when you hear the inevitable critics of the deal sound off, ask them a simple question -- do you really think that this verifiable deal if fully implemented, backed by the world's major powers is a worse option than the risk of another war in the middle east? >> what's your response to that, governor huckabee? >> first of all, i'm not sure

how verifiable anything is with the iranians. if you think they're going to let inspectors see everything you have a different view of the iranians than i do. and secondly the notion that the only option is either to bomb them and have a big war all over the middle east or let them have nuclear devices, if they get nuclear devices, do you think that they're going to just sit there and hold them and not use them for some nefarious purpose? the same people who have already murdered americans, kidnapped americans, financed more terrorism around the world than anybody, funned hamas and hezbollah? these aren't good people. so why do we expect something good from bad people? we're expecting good fruit from a bad tree and it rarely if ever will happen. >> i want to ask a question about your intentions with regard to 2016. first of all, are you prepared to make some news today? will you say you're formally getting into this thing? >> well let's hold off just a little while. we're working on the process and it's coming along, but i've said all along it will be during the

spring. so that gives me a few more weeks to finalize the decision. >> all right. while you're working on the process, ted cruz senator cruise is airing the first commercial of the 2016 cycle. let's both take a look. >> were it not for the transformative love of jesus christ i would have been raised by a single mom without my father in the house. god's blessing has been on america from the very beginning of this nation. over and over again when we face impossible odds the american people rose to the challenge. this is our fight. and that is why i'm running for president of the united states. i'm ted cruz and i approve this message. >> that's the type of a message that i anticipate coming from you and i think the problem politically is that it's also the type of a message that i anticipate coming from senator santorum from ben carson from a number of individuals who are thinking of running i'll say, for the republican nomination.

here's the question -- if you're all in are you guaranteeing the nomination of jeb bush? >> oh i don't think so. i mean first of all, i don't remember doing many ads like that. i spoke a lot about joblessness, about the fact that people are working hard and getting further behind. i think the narrative on me is that the only support i had was evangelical evangelicals. i've often said if all the evangelicals had supported me in a monolithic way, gosh i would have been the nominee. i had working-class people who were the rank-and-file, sort of nuts and bolts of my 2008 campaign, and i would suspect that a lot of the support that i'm going to have are going to be those same kind of people. many of them yeah sure, many are people of faith, but not all of them and a lot of them are just working-class people who feel like they've been left behind and while the economy is supposedly recovering according to washington it's certainly not recovering for a lot of people across america who are lifting heavy things every day. >> governor huckabee thanks for your time. >> michael, great to be with you

again. thank you. >> you too. coming up, the showdown between gay rights and relsigious rights isn't limited to wedding cakes and pizza. the stakes are higher once you're denied medical care. coming up, the couple whose pediatrician refused to care for their newborn. and stunning details investigators are learning about the actions of the germanwings co-pilot in the days leading up to the fatal crash. and dozens of cell phones have been recovered from the crash site. what that means for the investigation.

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welcome back. premeditated murder. that's how one official described the horrific crash of germanwings flight 9525 and now we know new details about the co-pilot's deadly path of destruction. investigators say that he purposely used the controls to speed up the plane's descent. officials also say that the 28-year-old researched ways to commit suicide and cockpit door security in the days before the

crash. investigators are also taking a closer look at mobile phones found at the crash site. joining me now is psychiatrist dr. gail soughts and former faa safety inspector david soucy. okay you two. you know i have my questions. >> you do. >> doctor eight straight days of doing online research sound like a chroniced is dal i'dkronchronic suicidal ideation and not a fleeting thought. is that typical? >> it's not typical mass murder. this doesn't even fit the picture of depression and justed is -- just ed is dal ideation. some who think about suicide do think about it for a while, plan and for some it's an impulsive act. this sound like a planned act which makes us think about whether if there had been an evaluation present or some way to let doctors be able to communicate for effectively this kwoufb could have been prevent. >> how does this fit with the

diagnosis of depression? >> it doesn't. most people who are depressed, if they're going to harm themselves harm only themselves they do not kill a large group of people. so this really doesn't fit. what does it fit with? you have to think about sociopathy somebody who just had a plan they wanted to be infamous they wanted to be important, they wanted to hurt others and were willing to take themselves with that plan. and you also have to think about another diagnosis, which no one's mentioned, and that is bipolar disorder. that is because when you look at his age and past depression one possibility is he wasn't just depressed when he was actually hatching bipolar disorder and an episode of brewing mania or hypomania. people can become at high risk for suicide anded a high risk for simply risky ventures. >> david sousy, speeding up upon descent descent. how would that have felt in the cabin? >> well at that point, in the

sense, it would have been -- they would have definitely known what's going on. they would have heard the engines spooling up higher. they would have felt the actual movement back in the seat because of the way he did it. he increased the speed very rapidly, and he did it twice. so he did that by adjusting the speed. there's three different controls that he can adjust, the descent, the speed, and the altitude of the descent as well. so it's tragic. it could have been noticeable. >> this black box when they found it actually was black because it was submerged eight inches in the soil. and my understanding is that it was detected by law enforcement on a second go-around. i remember from many of our conversations about mh-370 how in water the black boxes were emitting a signal. why isn't that done in this kind of circumstance? >> it really should be. the difference in water is the fact that it could be pretty much anywhere because of the drift and the float.

and the idea here is that when the impact happens it's a heavy box, lit go directly towards and real close to the actual impact spot. so typically it's easy to find. i'm not sure why they department use a metal detector in this sense because a massive piece of stainless steel like that or steel itself would have been noticeable with a metal detector. you'd look at all this metal and think that doesn't make sense, but most of the metal around there is aluminum which wouldn't be picked up by the detector. i'm surprised they didn't catch it on first pass. >> what else is this black box going to tell us? >> it'll tell us a number of things. what i'm hopeful is it will also tell us whether or not the switch was depressed and held in the down position. one of the thins that still remains in my mind a question is did the pilot have access, did the system work where you put in the code and the door opens? because there was no buzzer that went off, which is part of that system. so if it did not go off, then that means he was depressing that switch down. if we can conclude ha the switch

was depressed, then we don't have to look any further into the door system to see fit worked properly but if it didn't work properly that needs to be fixed. and the flight data recorder will tell us if that happened or not. >> doctor 30 seconds left. might medication strbhave been a trigger? >> in some cases when someone is depressed or manic and you give them many medication and it's in the early stage, it can energize them actually aid in hatching a plan. i don't want to blame suicide on medication because it is critical and very helpful for many people but in materialiest stages of medication someone should be monitored closely because there can be some increased risk. >> dr. salts, david soucie thank you both. now that a frame swoshg in place to stop iran's nuclear program, president obama has the tough task of trying to sell the deal to those oppose it. one of those voices is the first navy s.e.a.l. in the congress. he's passionate about why he

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welcome back. there's been strong reaction to the proposed deal that would limit iran's nuclear program and none stronger than from israel's prime minister benjamin netanyahu, who says the agreement threatens israel's survival. president obama insists the u.s. and the world are keeping a close eye on iran and he's optimistic that this deal is the best option. joining me is contributing editor of "the atlantic" and ""national journal,"" peter byner. many americans are trying to evaluate this deal. what should they be comparing it to? >> they should be comparing it to the potential alternative, which was the u.s. walks away. in all likelihood the international sanctions regime collapses because russia and china have a strong interest in doing business with iran. they're not going to maintain sanctions forever in the absence

of the possibility of a deal. and i think the pressure therefore on iran goes down and because we have no other alternative we move toward war. i think while this deal is not perfect it's far better than the alternative which would have led to the collapse of the sanctions regime and also the collapse of the inspections that give us allow us to know what's happening with iran's nuclear program. >> i ask that question because during the course of this week with my radio audience we had the same exchange and many people were calling and viewing it against the alternative of a complete eradication. of the iranian nuclear program. to those people you would say what? >> we don't have the capacity to destroy the iranian nuclear program completely. it's worth noting under international law iran has the right to a peaceful nuclear program. we can stop them from building a weapons program, but they have every right to have a peaceful nuclear program. of course it's hard to know where the line between one and

the other is which is why it's so important we have the sanctions. but we don't have the capacity to force iran into complete capitulation. we tried that with iraq. when iraq did not completely capitulate to us we tried invading it and then we did own the entire place but we saw what happened after that. >> let's work through some of the other criticisms. what stops iran from getting a nuclear weapon in 15 years? >> well even after the entire -- even after 50 years, iran still a member of the iaea will still be under international inspections, but to the same everyone else is. for the next 15 years they are subject to super heightened inspections other countries don't have to go through. we don't know -- it's conceive that believe iran 15 years later could be cheating and playing hide-and-seek with those inspectors but i think the bet of this deal is that an opening of iran to the rest of the world

is more likely to produce political change in iran. and part of the reason we're so concerned about an iranian nuclear weapon is because of the nature of this regime. when you look at the iranian people celebrating out in the streets, they're not celebrating because of the technical details of this deal. they're celebrating because they know that the possibility of an opening to the world will help them economically and it will help them politically, will empower them and disempower their oppressors in this regime. >> what if it helps them economically and they use that funding to support sides that are antagonistic to sides to the united states around the globe? >> they may well. our own allies like saudi arabia qatar, also support groups around the world that are antagonistic to us. iran supports hezbollah, for instance or the houthis in yemen but some of our gulf allies essentially support jihadist groups like al qaeda and isis. this will remain a problem nonetheless. this nuclear deal does not solve

all of america's problems with iran but it does create the basis for a dialogue a conversation with iran and i think it makes the price of iranian bad behavior higher because then iran jeopardizes the relationship they now potentially have with the rest of the world. >> prime minister netanyahu said this week he views this as a threat to the survival of israel. does he have the political power to derail this deal? >> i don't think so. first of all, i think it's important to note that while benjamin netanyahu has repeatedly called iran an existential threat several high-ranking officials and former officials in the israeli security establishment have said in fact that's not true, that while they see iran's potential nuclear weapon as a threat they don't believe it's an existential threat to israel it's not a threat to israel's survival. israel is after all, a country with a couple hundred nuclear weapons. why are those nuclear weapons there but for deterrence to deter any country that could

develop a nuclear weapon from using it? and i think that's the perspective many in the israeli security establishment see this through. >> final question. was prime minister netanyahu a benefit to the americans in this negotiation? i know you paid such close attention to what was going on in switzerland and elsewhere. was there a good cop/bad cop routine that secretary kerry was able to play out? >> it's a good question. it's hard to really know. i don't know enough about the thinking on the iranian side to know that. what i do know is that i think benjamin netanyahu has actually made it easier for barack obama to sell this deal at home. he has made the fight over this deal so partisan that i think he's made it harder for democrats to ultimately oppose barack obama on what will be the signature foreign policy initiative of his administration and it is democrats that the opponents of this deal need if they're going to override an obama veto. i think netanyahu has made that prospect harder. >> peter beinart, thanks so much. happy passover.

>> thank you. so has netanyahu made it easier for obama to sell this deal? has the deal become so partisan that democrats can't oppose it? joining me now is the fist navy s.e.a.l. elected to the house, a member of the armed services committee, republican congressman ryan zinc. great to have you here. please react to what you just heard from peter beinart. >> i think it's a false narrative. the negotiation should be clear. no legal pathway for iran to have a nuclear device no enrichment of uranium, no facilities that could be used to have a nuclear device and robust inspections. from our perspective i think that's fair and above board. we're talking about a nuclear armed iran which will almost assuredly result in a nuclear arms race in the middle east with saudi, perhaps uae, turkey jordan, all having nuclear

weapons. in an area that's notoriously unstable. congress we have a right under the constitution, the president has the power, but certainly congress has, you know, the advise and consent of a treaty under the constitution and will exercise it. >> congressman zinke, the president said this week any critic of the deal and clearly you're in that category needs to answer the question of why a verifiable deal is worse as an option than the risk of another war in the middle east. go ahead and respond to the president. >> i think it's a false narrative. one is the devil's in the details. clearly there's celebration in the streets of iran. they're very somber in israel. and we don't know the details of the framework are here. so i think the president should consult congress we should look at the details and make sure this is not a legal pathway for iran to have a nuclear weapon. but it's a false narrative by

saying that sanctions didn't work. sanctions worked to the point where that's why iran came to the table. so it's not a question of war. that's a false narrative. the question is what can we do what do we have the capacity to do. sanctions certainly worked before and if this deal is bad, we should take it. we don't have to take a bad deal. we don't have to have a path where iran has a nuclear weapon. >> it's also been pointed out this week that a military option if it were to be exercised, and you're not advocating that i understand but you have expertise and that's why i want to ask you, that a military option would probably wipe out an iranian nuclear capability only for a period of two or three years viewed against this prospect of 15 years of no iranian nuclear capability. doesn't that make this proposal more appetizing? >> well no. we're talking about iran having a nuclear weapon. this is a khomeini regime which

has had multiple multiple times has said they would want america destroyed. you know if you're looking at iran through a lens of are they a responsible nation-state has their conduct been one that would suggest they should have a path to a nuclear weapon and the answer most assurely is no. this is iran. you know one of the founders of worldwide terrorism. it wasn't that long ago -- you know remember the hostage taking. remember beirut. remember africa. remember iraq in the war. you have embedded troops right now, iranian troops in the territory of iraq. so, you know i don't think it's a good idea and it's not in our best interest given this state is also oil rich and has gas. they don't need a nuclear capability. i think the only reason why they're approaching a nuclear capability as far as power goes

is to generate enough material to make a nuclear weapon. >> congressman ryan zinke, thanks for being here, sir. >> always a pleasure. coming up next while college basketball's elite gear up for tonight's final four the ncaa is preparing for a showdown of its own. the surprising statement that sparked a major backlash. i've lived my whole life here in fairbanks, alaska. i love the outdoors, spending time with my family. i have a family history of prostate cancer. i had the test done and that was when i got the news. my wife and i looked at treatment options. cancer treatment centers of america kept coming up on the radar. so we flew to phoenix. greg progressed excellently. we proceeded to treat him with hormonal therapy, concurrent with intensity modulated radiation therapy to the prostate gland. go to cancercenter.com to learn more about our integrative therapies and how they're specifically designed to keep you strong mentally, physically and spiritually throughout your treatment.

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welcome back. all eyes are on inn and not just for the religious freedom bill that's sparked so much controversy. college basketball fans have converged on indianapolis for tonight's much-anticipated final four. despite the excitement in the arena, a dark cloud is hanging over the ncaa in response to a lawsuit filed by former university of north carolina athletes. the ncaa has said it's not their job to ensure educational quality. any next guest knows all too well about balancing academics and the pressure of playing sports at high level. marlon rolle played football at oregon state university is a rhodes scholar, played in the nfl and is now a medical student. they say we don't have day-to-day responsibility for

what actually happens in the classroom. >> thank you for having me. i believe there's more the ncaa can do as well as individual institutions. i think that once the ncaa and institutions realize that this once amateur model of college sports no longer exists then we can start making real progress. as you said i'm a second-year medical student to be a pediatric neurosurgeon. the i see a patient this patient has all the clinical signs and indications of low-bar pneumonia, i tell my attending physician. my attending physician says this is a broken foot, that attending physician is denying what's happening, analogous to what's happen in the ncaa. there's so much money and pressure and highlights and exposure for these young athletes that it's bordering on professionalism. >> the rhodes scholarship application process is legendary for its rigorous nature. what was the reaction of your

football coaches in college when they became aware of the fact that you were making that application? >> i wanted to do the rhodes scholarship since i heard about bill bradley's awesomeness basically in college and being a rock star in that respect. when i got to the university i went to the office and said i want to be a rhodes scholar like my hero bill bradley. when i applied, it's very intense, you have to write a cv personal interviews write a personal statement saying why you want to be a rode scholar and how this education at oxford can help your interests moving forward, there was a little bit of resistance from a few coaches but for the most part i got a lot of support from florida state, from administration teammates, faculty because they felt that if i did well and i showed that, you know you can actually balance academics and athletics in a major division i college institution like florida state, then that would be good for the program, that could be good for student/athletes and it

could be good all the way around. they told me i could interview for the scholarship, i just had to win it. i did and it's been remarkable for me. >> when you delayed your entry to the nfl, was the nfl as understanding as the coaches that you just described? >> not at first. you know the i believe some people in the nfl are used to a certain athlete, used to a certain player, and when there's a player that comes from a different sort of frame of mind has a bit of a different ideology and doesn't have i would say 100%, you know outlook or perspective on just football -- you know, my parents wanted me to have a breadth of knowledge at an early age. they came from the bahamas and made sure i focused on many different aspects, being a great leader, a great citizen, a great christian, a great brother, a great person. football was a part of me but it didn't describe all of me. i received more resistance from the nfl. however, it was a great opportunity to play at the highest level and i got out the

game healthy, safe, no concussions, hands good so, i can operate in the future and excited about the choices i've been able to make in my life. >> there's so much money wrapped up in the final which as you know tips off this evening. some say that money ought to be shareded with the athletes. the response is the athletes get paid in terms of scholarships for education. what's your take on that issue? >> see, i got to florida state with a framework and a structure and support from family that could help buttress my journey. i came in a good vision understanding i'm not only coming to this school to play football and do well but also gain and accrue intellectual capital, develop some relationships and networks do multiple things, enrich my college experience ep so when i left whether i played football or went on to be a doctor or did something else, i would be ready to take on the world. a lot of me my teammates and classmates didn't have that same support. i believe ncaa and some institutions should fill that void some of these athletes are

missing in their life. wlit's paying players directly, making them millionaire, i'm not sold on that idea but perhaps putting a fund together to help these athletes reach their goals, i think that's a good idea. >> final question yes or no. jameis winston, round one? >> round one and first overall pick. no question. >> whoa. okay. dr. rolle, wanted in surgery. thank you, myron. >> thank you, michael. appreciate it. coming up, it's one thing to refuse wedding-related sfs to same-sex couples for religious reasons, quite another when a pediatrician tells you she can't care for your newborn baby. but that's what one michigan couple says happened to them and their story is next. ♪ ♪ the pursuit of healthier. it begins from the second we're born. after all, healthier doesn't happen all by itself. it needs to be earned... every day... from the smallest detail to the boldest leap. healthier means using wellness to keep away illness...

knowing a prescription is way more than the pills... and believing that a single life can be made better by millions of others. healthier takes somebody who can power modern health care... by connecting every single part of it. realizing cold hard data can inspire warmth and compassion... and that when technology meets expertise... everything is possible. for as long as the world keeps on searching for healthier... we're here to make healthier happen. optum. healthier is here.

welcome back to the program. the debate over religious freedom and gay rights has sparked all kinds of talk about flower cakes, a even pizza. but what if a pediatrician said she couldn't care for your child because of religious reasons? christy and her wife jamie, say that's what happened to them the physician refused to treat their newborn daughter because they're gay. i spoke to them recently. krista and jamie contreras and their daughter bay, all three join me now. thanks for being here. when you interviewed the pediatrician before the birth of bay, were there any signs of

trouble? >> no. we really liked her, thought she really liked us. we didn't have any clue she had a problem with our sexual orientation. >> so bay is then born and at age 6 days it's time for her first pediatric visit. what happened? >> well, we go into the room right when we got there, and we were just waiting for dr. roy, and a different doctor actually came in and said bile the one seeing you today. dr. roy decided she won't be able to care for bay and take her on as a patient. >> did you know what that meant? did you recognize those words, prayed on it to be a reflection of the doctor's view of your sexuality? >> yeah. she made it pretty clear because she said she prayed on it and followed it up by saying i don't care you know, i'll take care of anyone, you know they're loving parents, i'll care for

any baby. so she kind of explained it in a roundabout way of what she meant by that. we really could recognize the red flag there that there was an issue with our sexuality. >> eventually and it's not immediately, but eventually you get an apology letter from the pediatrician which i'll show the audience now. there are two lines i want to focus on. first of all, one line says "after much prayer following your prenatal i felt that i would not be able to develop the personal patient/doctor relationship that i normally do with my patients." this was intended to be a holistic approach. at some level, did you say i ges we're glad she told us because we wanted a full sense of care for the family unit not just for baby bay? >> yeah. definitely we're glad we're not in the care of a doctor who doesn't support our family. it would have been really nice of her to let us know that ahead of time. i don't know that we would be sitting here right now if she had let us know ahead of time.

i'm sure it would have hurt and we wouldn't have been very happy with it but at least we could have continued on to our plan to continue to meet with pedia pediatricians and find the one, you know that was a good fit. >> help me interpret another line in the apology letter. "please know that i believe that god gives us free choice and i would never judge anyone based on what they do with that free choice." what choice is she referring to? >> obviously, i mean she makes it pretty clear, especially with the "prayed about it" line that she's referring to us being gay and basically saying that, you know we chose our sexual orientation. so, you know that word really jumped off the page at us. if that's what she believes, you know that's what she believes that's her beliefs but, you know to say she doesn't judge us by that when she's definitely judging, you know, by that and saying that we chose this lifestyle.

but bay didn't choose anything. bay is sitting here as a 6-day-old baby and because her parents are, you know, gay that you can't care for her. so it was interesting. >> i want to make something else clear. there's no litigation pending, no litigation contemplated. you're here today to build awareness of an important issue. explain. >> yeah basically, in michigan this is totally cool. it's legal. she did nothing wrong according to our laws and we just want to, you know -- we think, yes, bay was 6 days when we were sitting in that doctor's appointment but if what if she was 6 years old and was asking why is my family being treated different they en in another family and not understanding? we want to raise awareness to the status of the laws kurptdly are in hopes to change those laws, you know to add lgbt protections to different laws in

the state of michigan and hopefully around the country. >> only 22 states prohibit the type of conduct that we're discussing and there's no federal law on the books that gives protection to your family unit in a circumstance like this. >> yeah. and michigan has the rfra on the books. if that goes through, it furthers the doctors' rights to keep discriminateing in any business at that point saying here's a license to discriminate however and to whoever you want. i think we need to be aware of what laws are being passed right now. you know all you need is a history book that shows this isn't going to better our society for anyone involved. we just want to make people aware this is happening to families like ours and others like ours all around the country. >> jamie and krista best of luck. all good health with bay and

thank you so much. >> thank you. >> thanks for having us michael. >> sharing our story. >> we really appreciate it. >> i'll be right back. people ship all kinds of things. but what if that thing is a few hundred thousand doses of flu vaccine. that need to be kept at 41 degrees.

while being shipped to a country where it's 90 degrees. in the shade. sound hard? yeah. does that mean people in laos shouldn't get their vaccine? we didn't think so. from figuring it out to getting it done, we're here to help.

thank you so much for joining me. happy passover. happy easter. and you can follow me on twitter if you can spell smerconish. see you next week. onthe baptist. >> he's got it! >> the fearless prophet who hails the coming of a new messiah. he believes that some reckoning is imminent. >> the preacher who baptizes jesus. setting him on his mission towards god. >> it's at that moment that something profound changes for jesus. >> now science joins the quest to connect past and present, testing john the baptist's relics to discover a link to the man the bible says was john's cousin. jesus himself. to help us answer who