that is all for this week's "reliable sources," but "state of the union" starts right now. a deadly mistake in america's drone war. hillary clinton's big cash headache. and a legend's call for justice. this is "state of the union." senator john mccain on the blowback from u.s. drone strikes. ohio governor john kasich on whether he's running for president. will hillary clinton's big money derail her campaign? and musician john legend on why

black lives matter. good morning from washington. i'm jim acosta. president obama is promising a review of his administrationing drone program after two western hostages including an american were killed in a counterterrorism operation. their deaths have renewed criticism of the u.s. drone strategy. and joining me now is senate armed services committee chairman john mccain. senator mccain, thanks very much for joining us. thanks for getting up so early this morning. >> thank you, jim. >> you've had a couple of days to mull this over. the drone strikes that resulted in the deaths of those two hostages. were their deaths preventable in your view? >> i think it was probably preventable in that there was an obvious breakdown in intelligence. they didn't know they were there. and as you know all of our prayers and thoughts are with their families. so it was obviously preventable, but the question then is do we continue these drone strikes and how important are they?

that raises all of those questions, and it's clearly a subject for review by both intelligence and armed services committees and the entire congress. >> and i notice this week after the president's admission about these drone strikes and the terrible tragedy that occurred that both he and the white house did not use the word "drone" and they did not say that the cia program existed. but we do know that to be a fact, isn't that right, senator? that these drone strikes are run by the cia. >> yes. and there is kind of an internal struggle going on within the administration and within the congress as to which -- whether it should be an armed services operation, the whole issue of drone strikes, or should it be done by the cia? obviously, as chairman of the armed services committee, i have some bias but it seems to me that as much as we could give a responsibility and authority over to the department of defense, because that's really

not the job of the intelligence agency. but back to your question, i think that raises the debate, do we need to continue drone strikes and if so how? obviously better intelligence. we are now facing a new form of warfare, these non-state terrorist organizations that are spread all over hell's half acre. and really the only way you can get at them that we know of now that's viable is through the drone operations. they have taken out leadership. and we can argue, and in fact i would argue strenuously, there are places where we could have done a lot more but this is sort of an aspect of the frozen conflict where we're not going to send boots on the ground to go get those people, and that's certainly understandable. >> and that's something that white house press secretary josh earnest said earlier this week that they can't conduct an osama bin laden raid every time they want to take out terrorists on the battlefield. i want to pick up on something

you just said a few moments ago which i know you said this a couple of years ago, you would like to see the drone program moved from the cia and over to the pentagon. why has that not happened? >> turf battles. >> the cia doesn't want to give it up? >> failure to -- in all candor, obviously, and the president said a couple years ago he wanted them moved, and there is is some question about the capabilities and the equipment that the d.o.d. has as compared with cia. what this will do jim-s we'll renew this discussion with the administration within congress as to who actually should be running the drone operation. >> in your view, the cia should not run this program? i don't mean to interrupt but i wanted to get that point across. >> i don't think so. that's why they are called the intelligence agency, and that's why we call the armed forces,

obviously, the people that are supposed to be carrying out military operations. and i can understand when it was a small operation why it would be done by the intelligence agency such as u2s and other reconnaissance aircraft for many years. now it's reached the point where it's an integral part of the conflict and a very essential one. so i think it should be conducted in oversight and administered by the department of defense. >> i want to turn to iran. as you know, earlier in the week there was a potential for a military confrontation between the u.s. and iran when it was feared the iranians were sending arms through their naval ships over to yemen to support the houthi rebels there fighting the proxy war on the part of the iranians, and the u.s. sent an aircraft carrier, and the white house would not say essentially they were there to keep those weapons from being delivered, but do you think some sort of military action would have been advisable if push came to shove,

if it was necessary to block those shipments? >> absolutely. there is no doubt the houthis are sponsored, trained and equipped they're a proxy of the iranians who are again on the move in another country. you look at where yemen sits geographically, and it could be a threat to one of the world's most important waterways, and i applaud the saudis' efforts and their operations, and for us to continuously argue that they stop their campaign i think is ludicrous, part of this delusion that there's going to be new u.s./iranian alliance after the nuclear deal is consummated, and so i applaud what the saudis are doing, and it's going to be tough and hard, but they did the right thing. and why in the world the president wouldn't just say that. the president said because we are going to preserve freedom of navigation? come on, let's be straight with the american people. >> do you think he was afraid of spoiling this deal? you think he was afraid of

spoiling this nuclear deal? >> so much of their actions are related to this nirvana, this mirage out there that with the nuclear deal we are going to have some kind of new relationship throughout the middle east, and that scared the hell out of our sunni allies and frankly it scares the hell out of me because they are on the move in all of these countries, lebanon, syria, iraq and yemen, and they're on the move in other places as well. they are carrying out very aggressive operations. >> senator, you know that the president a couple weeks ago slammed you when he essentially accused of you trusting the ayatollah more than the secretary of state, john kerry, when you said the administration and ayatollah were on separate pages when it came to the nuclear deal. do you think diplomacy has any chance of success, and don't you think diplomacy should be given a chance? >> i think diplomacy should be

given a chance, and what i was saying are the facts. the facts are the ayatollah depicts the state of negotiations as far as inspections are concerned and lifting of sanctions are concerned and other aspects of the deal that are diametrically opposed to what john kerry and the state department are telling us. that's just a fundamental fact. i think george schultz and henry kissinger were correct in the op ed in the "wall street journal," where they said these negotiations began in order to rid iran from having a nuclear capability to delaying iran from having a nuclear ability, and i can assure you, jim, if this deal goes through the way it appears it is, you will see a nuclear armed middle east, and that is incredibly dangerous. >> let me turn to 2016, because i know there was this dustup between you and senator rand paul. he referred to you as a lapdog, you said he was the worst possible candidate of the 20 or so which are running on the most important issue which is

national security. that comeback from you, wouldn't that make a great hillary clinton campaign ad if rand paul is the nominee of your party? >> my first obligation is to the security of the country, and rand paul is behind, leading from behind. >> would you serve as his running mate if he were to ask you to be on his ticket? would you serve on his ticket? >> you know, the vice president has two duties. one is to inquire daily as to the health of the president, and the other is to break a tie vote in the united states senate. i am not interested. >> you wouldn't serve as vice president on anybody's ticket. what about lindsey graham? you are essentially his surrogate in the upcoming campaign. >> i just feel, jim, i can be far more effective as the chairman of the senate armed services committee. there are challenges -- well, again, henry kissinger and george shultz and madeleine albright and all those people we

respect have stated unequivocally we are in a greater crisis than we have ever been since the end of world war ii, and i agree with them. >> but getting back to lindsey graham you are going to be i suppose, his chief surrogate in this upcoming campaign. if he were to ask you to be his vice presidential running mate i assume you would say yes to that. isn't that right? >> that's -- i don't think lindsey would be -- he's really a smart guy. so i don't think he would ever consider such a thing. we are very close and there is no doubt about that, but he understands national security as no other candidate does. >> do you wish you would have picked him as your running mate back in 2008? >> no, no, i certainly don't. but i have watched him grow and i have watched him handle his responsibilities on the armed services committee and the budget committee, and i have seen him -- it's one of the

great life stories that we have ever had, frankly. >> okay. let me ask you about the president's remarks last night. i am sure you probably noticed or you have heard since last night the president took a little swipe at you when talking about the security lapses at the white house and fence jumpers and so forth. he suggested -- he made a suggestion as to how to beef up security at 1600 pennsylvania avenue. let's throw it to that tape. >> i am happy to report that the secret service, thanks to some excellent reporting by white house correspondents, they are really focusing on some of the issues that have come up and they finally figured out a foolproof way to keep people off my lawn. there he is. >> senator, i don't know if you can see it there in arizona, but there was a picture of you basically saying get off my lawn over at the white house. what was your response to that? what did you make of that? >> well, i am reporting for duty on monday morning, and in my

usual laid back casual style, my diplomatic style, and i am telling you, i will get the secret service squared away. i'm ready for the job. >> all right. very good. senator john mccain, thanks for joining us this morning and being a good sport there at the end. it's always good talking to you, sir. >> thank you. >> thank you, senator. and up next, the ohio republican governor on whether he is ready to jump into the race for president. and later singer john legend on mixing art with activism. >> what means more to you, winning an academy award, winning all these grammys or your political activism? >> you know, i'm fortunate that they're not separate. why do we do it? why do we spend every waking moment, thinking about people? why are we so committed to keeping you connected? why combine performance with a conscience? why innovate for a future without accidents? why do any of it? why do all of it? because if it matters to you it's everything to us.

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so people can get the best hotel prices to plan, compare and book the perfect trip visit tripadvisor.com today ohio governor john kasich has not officially entered the 2016 presidential race, but he is acting a lot like a candidate. governor kasich was the keynote speaker this week at the nonpartisan new americas foundation annual conference, and cnn's gloria borger my colleague, spoke with him after his address. >> i'm going to start with the question everybody wants answered, which is are you running for president? >> i don't know yet. i mean i've taken another big step for me which is to create a political organization to begin to accumulate more resources so i can travel more robustly and begin to think about infrastructure. and then once that's done if i should be successful in raising

sort of that seed money, then i think the next step is to see if people like what i have to say. and then i think it's going to be to find out around the country whether i can raise enough money to compete at least in the early states. if that works i'm likely to go forward. >> at this point what would stop you from running? >> lack of resources or consideration that i wouldn't win. because i don't want to do this just for -- just to go and do it. i've got a big job in ohio. being governor i've got 11 1/2 million people and a lot of responsibility. this is not like, let me try and if it doesn't work i will try again, or i can be vice president or something. i'm not interested in any of that. so either i feel like i can win or there's no reason to do it. >> the last time we spoke you said that somebody who is extreme in their politics would not be able to win in the state of ohio. what did you mean by that? >> dividers. people that come in and want to divide are not going to do very well.

and that's because americans are tired of all the division and want to see solutions. >> do you think hillary clinton can win in ohio? >> sure, sure she could. of course she could, and anybody on the list are capable and it's just how they project themselves. she'll be a formidable candidate. she's having a lot of problems right now. anybody that underestimates hillary clinton i think makes a mistake. they underestimated her husband. >> how do you respond to americans believe that republicans are too close to wall street, that wall street is too greedy? >> well i've said all along that i think there's too much greed on wall street. and you know the reason i say it is because i saw it. and the fact is there's nothing wrong with making money. there's a lot of good. but you can't just be totally dedicated to making money without sort of doing some good in the process. i think that we have paid for the problem of greed on wall street, and, you know -- >> there's a little elizabeth

warren in you, i think. >> no, maybe there is a little bit of me in her. >> let me ask you about the iran sanctions deal. >> yeah. >> if you were in congress would you vote to allow that to occur? >> well, knowing what i know now, no. reagan used to say trust and verify. in regard to iran, it should be verify, verify, verify, without the trust because i -- >> you don't think the administration has done that or tried to do that? >> i think they have fallen in love with this deal. a lot of it is about a legacy. look i'm not here to condemn and demonize the president. but i'm telling you that i do not like this agreement, what i've read so far. >> and let me just ask you about the president this week. you saw that drones apparently killed two westerners by mistake and he came out and admitted this was an error. should we expect deadly mistakes like this as part of the drone

program? >> i don't think the drone program should have been run out of the cia. the cia is an intelligence gathering operation. the operation, the drone program, should be operated exclusively out of the pentagon. you know, the air force has the capability of doing extensive targeting. you don't have those capabilities in the cia. i have talked to former cia people who have told me this. >> let me just ask you this final question. what do you say to republicans who look at this field and they say, the republican party has grown a lot more conservative than john kasich, who supports common core and doesn't take a pathway to citizenship off the table on immigration reform? >> i think it's a misread of the party. i think the party, the members of the republican party, the members of the democratic party share a lot of the same concerns and same anxiety and want to see

solutions. at the end of the day, what i found where i travel i don't change my message. if i am at the detroit economic club or down in south carolina or new hampshire, i am told by people that my message is resonating. in the great state of ohio, 64% of the vote, and 86 out of 88 counties, won a county that barack obama won by 40 points. i must be doing something right, but we will see. if they don't like me or don't think i am this or that, my conscience will be clear i did the best i can. and by the way, i am not changing my positions. i'm not changing my talk. i'm going to be who i am. >> okay. a straight shooter there in john kasich. an interesting footnote. next summer's republican national convention is in ohio. up next, is hillary clinton's presidential campaign already in trouble? and later, singer john legend on using his art for change. >> this is personal for you? >> well it's personal for me because i've had family members

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hillary clinton's campaign is just three weeks old, but she is already facing a controversy over foreign donations to the clinton foundation. joining me now around the table is republican strategist kristin soltice anderson "wall street journal" white house correspondent daryl lee, democratic strategist stephanie cutter and cnn senior washington correspondent, jeff zelny. i am calling this the hangover edition of the white house correspondents dinner. this is the political side of that now and we will get to the dinner later. i will put you on the spot first, stephanie, since you spent a long time defending democratic candidates over the years. there is a new book out, of course, "clinton cash," by peter schweitzer who's getting all

kinds of publicity thanks to us and everybody else talking about this book. but the book raises a lot of good questions about the money coming into the clinton foundation and whether or not as that was happening while hillary clinton was at the state department some of these foreign donors were actually able to pay for access. what is your take on this? how damaging is this for hillary clinton and should she be worried? >> well, number one i think the book is actually not out. >> yeah. >> and even before it hits the stands -- >> it feels like it's out. >> it certainly feels like it's out because of the media coverage and some of the special deals it has gotten with media. however, every allegation or piece of innuendo that it has put out there it has been struck down. even the author says there is no evidence here of wrongdoing. and i think that's an important thing for everybody to remember. he suggests that she was able to get the colombia free trade through because of a donation to her husband's foundation. that is absolutely ridiculous.

i worked on the colombia free trade deal for years. and if one person could put their finger on the scale, believe me, i would have found that. it's not possible. >> you did not see that? >> it didn't happen. it's not just that i didn't see it. that system is not set up in a way for it to happen. >> and kristin, did you expect this kind of political gift to come to the republicans so early in the campaign? >> it's been a constant drip, drip, drip, and i think we have a long way to go until november 2016 and i think republicans seem to be getting a new gift every week. it doesn't take a lot to persuade voters that politicians are sort of peddling their influence to the highest bidder. what's unusual about this is that the highest bidder in this case is foreign corporations and foreign governments. usually russia and uranium are not involved in these sorts of stories, which sort of takes it to the next level. voters also aren't dumb. bill clinton's speaking fees tripling when all of a sudden hillary clinton becomes secretary of state. again, this is not a hard case that republicans need to make that the clintons are in this for themselves and not for the american people and for the good of the country. >> and we should point out that

the hillary clinton campaign has pointed out that peter schweizer is a conservative and has written books essentially supporting conservative causes in the past. i want to play a piece of tape from hillary clinton earlier this weekend and then go to you, jeff. hillary clinton seemed to be saying when it comes to the republicans it's all about me. here's what she had to say. >> we will be subjected to all kinds of distraction and attacks, and i'm ready for that. it is i think worth noting that the republicans seem to be talking only about me. i don't know what they would talk about if i weren't in the race. >> it's all about me at this point, jeff. is that hillary clinton's line of defense now? >> she's right about that. i was with her in new hampshire when she said that. that's the only time she addressed this, and she did it very briefly. but look i think this raises legitimate questions that voters will have to answer about if she was elected president then what would happen? what role would bill clinton have then? the clinton campaign realizes

this is just the very beginning of this. they do have to answer some of these questions. and you're totally right, there's nothing -- no huge smoking gun in the book that we know of right now. but it does raise questions of speaking fees of why that one $2.35 million donation was not disclosed. when she was becoming secretary of state in january of '09 she signed a document saying she would disclose all contributions to the foundation. that apparently did not happen. there are still more questions about this. but the bigger picture is this. is this going to affect the trust and credibility of her? voters are not paying attention to this issue right now, but the bigger question is are people going to say more 1k57b8dscandal, more this, we saw them say that yesterday in south carolina. >> i want to turn to carol on this, because there may not be a smoke gun but there is when it comes to the clintons smoking gun fatigue and it's been going on for decades and i'm just curious how big of a problem is it going for the white house? because when we asked josh

earnest about this he said we've been presented with no evidence of any problem here. >> everybody is talking about there's no smoking gun, and it's the letter of the law. it's a perception problem. >> going back to the late 1990s one asset the clintons had on their side was republican overreach. bill clinton's approval ratings went up after the impeachment. do you think the republicans might overplay their hand once again and set the table for hillary clinton by overreaching this time? >> i don't think that it's going to have to take a lot of effort on the part of republicans to get americans believing that hillary clinton's not particularly trustworthy. it's already showing up in lots of polls. if i was a democrat at this point i might be a little nervous that there is no plan b if as jeff mentioned you know the layers get peeled off one by one, there's no smoking gun at the moment. but it just seems that this constant drip drip drip of stories where the clintons have not done the right thing or have barely done the right thing is not going to be a helpful narrative for them over the next 18 months. >> but stephanie's right that you did not hear jeb bush out there talking about that this week. we heard mitt romney saying it

sounds like bribery but no one who's actually running for president said that. and there is a danger i think of republican overreach. but this is only one small part of it. we have the benghazi e-mails coming out p ps theg gob a stoundtrack of this pane sxan like it or. p the voters might not be paying attention to it but it is going to happen. >> republicans out of focus on what this election is about. there is almost a guarantee that there will be republican overreach in this election. >> speaking of overreaching last night washington once again probably could have been accused of overreaching with the white house correspondents' dinner. we're going to talk about that coming up. the four of you will stick around when we get to that. we'll be talking about president obama's turn as comedian in chief. something he's used to doing. we'll talk about that with some highlights in a few moments.

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i am aware of my age. when i go in for a physical now, they no longer ask me how old i am, they just carbon date me.

>> i have actually shown up here for eight straight years. looking back, that was probably a mistake. >> members of the white house correspondents' association, distinguished guests, ladies and gentlemen, here i am. >> now to the mid-term elections, my advisers asked me, mr. president, do you have a bucket list? and i said, well, i have something that rhymes with bucket list. >> and it's a good thing he pulled that off and there was no miscue there on pronouncing bucket list which i was afraid to say this morning. welcome back. highlights from an annual ritual here in washington. the white house correspondents' dinner. it's an event where hollywood celebrities and politicians mingle and the president of the united states gets to have the last laugh. last night president obama appeared at the dinner for the seventh year in a row and got some big-time zingers in there.

our round table is back. and i want to show some pictures of my evening. i got to see a few celebrities. there's houma abedin, hillary clinton's assistant. jane fonda was sitting at our table last night, that was something else. and i got to meet julio bowen from "modern family." there's jane fonda as well. and i was checking my twitter feed last night and posting these pictures just immediately provoked this backlash. there's a lot of people out there who think this stinks that she's celebrities and these politicians and these people in the media should not be doing this. what do you think, carol? >> well i'm on the board of the white house correspondents' association. i'll be president next year. and i disagree. i think that's what gets a lot of the focus, obviously. that's what people are interested in. but we do a lot of things that have nothing to do with celebrities or all the parties and the glitz that follow -- that surround the dinner. also last night, we honored people who won awards for doing great journalism covering the white house. we talk a lot about transparency and access which is what we do day in and day out. so once a year the spotlight is

on us and our dinner and unfortunately no one wants to take a picture with -- sorry, jeff. but jeff and me. i mean i do but -- you know they want to take a picture with jane fonda. and that's what gets on twitter. >> and jeff you've been to a number of these. is this obscene, do you think? you know "the new york times" doesn't go to this. >> they don't anymore, right. and i was at "the new york times" when that decision was made. look i think there's a lot of talk about how obscene this is. it's one night. i thought last night's was actually more in check than previous years. not as many celebrities. there was no ozzy osbourne kind of standing up on a chair and having his way. i always think the most interest thing is how the president reacts. we get a great window into what the president is thinking his frustrations his humor in this kind of speech. that's the value i see in it. >> i sort of feel like more effort goes into writing the president's jokes at this dinner than maybe some of his policy speeches. that was a well-crafted work of art last night.

let's show a clip from that because he had a little anger translation going on. and it was probably the highlight of the evening. let's toss to that. >> protecting our democracy is more important than ever. for example, the supreme court ruled that the donor who gave ted cruz $6 million was just exercising free speech. >> yeah. it's the kind of speech like this -- i just wasted $6 million. >> and it's not just republicans. hillary will have to raise huge sums of money, too. >> oh yeah. [ laughter ] she going to get that money! she going to get all the money! khaleesi is coming to westeros! >> great stuff. stephanie, the jokes work because, you know, it's funny and it's true. >> you know, i think it's the one night where the president can poke fun of himself and poke

fun at some other fellow electives but also poke fun at the media. in that regard it's a good time. >> i talked to a white house official last night who said the president does relish this opportunity -- >> he does. >> -- to dish it back at the press. he gets to save up all that frustration over the course of a year. what do you think about this? what did you make of some of the jokes last night? there were a lot of jokes at the expense of ted cruz, rand paul and others. >> i think the republicans running for president are all big boys and big girls. i think they can take it. >> this is one of those opportunities, jeff where if we can't laugh at ourselves who can we laugh at? it's a healthy form of kacatharsis catharsis -- >> sure. and the worst thing is probably not being mentioned in this situation. martin o'malley who's probably running against -- for president on the democratic side he was mentioned a few times. even -- he was the butt of jokes. but at least he was mentioned. i think the biggest thing is if -- >> some of the best advertising he's had. >> there weren't a lot of jeb bush jokes in there because a lot of democrats are concerned about his candidacy. so you know i think that by monday morning all of us will be back to work and this is a

memory for one more year. >> and a good one as well. carol lee, jeff zeleny stephanie cutter kristen soltice. we appreciate it. and my conversation with john legend on everything from his oscar winning song glory to the cause he intends to take up with the president. some surprising words for the president. coming up. sometimes i struggle to sleep at night, and stay awake during the day. this is called non-24. learn more by calling 844-824-2424. or visit your24info.com. bring us your baffling. bring us your audacious. we want your sticky notes, sketchbooks, and scribbles. let's pin 'em to the wall. kick 'em around. kick 'em around, see what happens. because we're in the how-do-i-get-this-startup- off-the-ground business. the taking-your-business- global-business. we're in the problem-solving business. 400,000 people - ready to help you solve problems while they're still called opportunities. from figuring it out to getting it done

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more than 11 million times in the u.s. and that number's growing. like your guys' scores. with xarelto® there is no regular blood monitoring, and no known dietary restrictions. treatment with xarelto® was the right move for us. ask your doctor about xarelto®. you may be able to get up to 12 months at no cost. he's won nine grammys and took home the oscar this year for best original song. since his debut album "get lifted" was released in 2004 john legend has continued to create hit after hit. but for the talented singer-songwriter, producer and philanthropist social activism is just as important to him as art. >> thanks for being on "state of the union." >> thank you for having me. >> just in the last week or so what's flared up in baltimore has heightened awareness once again of this issue of police brutality. in baltimore alleged police brutality. do you think there's an epidemic of police brutality happening in

this country right now? >> well i think for too long the criminal justice system implemented by the police but not solely run by the police has treated black people as though our lives are not as valuable as though we are enemies in our communities rather than community members, and we need our police to look at us as community members that they care about and want to keep safe and healthy and treat us with the same fairness they would treat any other person. and far too often that hasn't been the case. that's why you see so many people walking around with signs "black lives matter." the reason we have to be specific and say black lives matter is because so many forces in american life are telling us that our lives don't matter, that our lives are expendable. that when we're killed when we're unarmed, that we can't get justice for that. when we were the perpetrators of crime even though it's the same crime as everyone else we get longer sentences or we get

treated worse by the criminal justice system. >> and do you think that we're just seeing a greater number of these types of cases right now or is it because -- >> i honestly think there's more awareness. i think there's more technology that allows us to have transparency, but i think -- >> cell phone cameras. >> yeah, krelt cell phone cameras. i think in some ways it's a good thing. but in other ways it's almost like it's numbing to the extent to which we're seeing it because we're seeing something new almost every day. >> the case in south carolina. >> we're seeing it in south carolina, baltimore, all over the country. almost to the point where it seems so commonplace, i don't want us to get too used to it. we still need to be outraged about these things. >> i'm just curious. we have not heard from president obama on this situation in baltimore and on the situation in south carolina for the last couple weeks. he hasn't commented on it. he has a lot on his plate obviously. >> sure. >> you have been a big supporter of his over the years. do you think he's said enough on this? >> i think there's more to be said, but i also think it's not as important that he comment on

every case. it's important that we reform the system. on the federal level and the state and local level as well. and it's not just about these killings, which are very important and a huge concern in the community, but it's also about what i have been talking about for a bit in the past couple weeks is mass incarceration and the overall way that the criminal justice system treats particularly black and brown communities, poor communities. we are the most incarcerated nation in the world, and we've gotten there through a set of policies that have been in existence over the last 40 years. we have to have more than just press conferences. we need to have real changes in policies. >> john, i remember when you launched this campaign you went to a prison. >> yeah. >> to perform. >> yes, i went to a prison in austin. >> what was that like? >> i went to a prison in sacramento. i went to old folsom prison where johnny cash performed. i also visited facilities in california. in d.c. we went to visit an

alternative program for youth who get caught up in the juvenile justice system. and -- >> have you found some solutions to this issue of mass incarceration? >> i think -- actually what we saw today was a great thing because it was saying that we don't need prison as the solution for every problem. so when our young people get in trouble, a lot of times it's nonviolent. a lot of times it's minor fights and things like that. a lot of times they have been sent to the prison system, to the juvenile justice system and locked up when there are other ways to deal with them, other way that is are community based and more focused on restoring them so they can come back and live a good life and pursue their dreams. these are kids that are 15, 16 years old. for us to give up on them and throw their lives away at that age is just a travesty. and so we've seen that. we've seen people who have gone through all kinds of trauma who are living in a cycle of broken lives where, you know, they've had issues with their own parents, issues in their own communities.

they've seen people get killed. they have seen family members get locked up, so they're already broken, already people who have gone through so much, and then when they get in trouble, they end up back in that same system and so we need to find ways that are better -- >> you have to figure out how to get to these at-risk kids before they become incarcerated. >> exactly. so i spent so much time focusing on schools and i still do. we focus on helping make sure that teachers that are doing great -- a great job are getting their solutions funded and getting their work seen around the country so that we improve our schools, improve the instruction quality that we have for the kids. make sure that the resources they need are there. may sure if they have emotional traumas that they've gone through that we offer support for them. but it's also important that for the kids that slip through the cracks who all these interventions haven't gotten to yet that we find solutions that aren't always all about locking them up. we've made a decision as a country over the last 40 years that we're going to deal with most problems like poverty, drug dependency mental health issues

by putting people in prison. >> can i challenge you on that for a second? let me challenge you on that. if you look at the crime statistics across the country, crime is at a generation low levels. >> yes, and incarceration hasn't gone down to reflect that the crime has gone down. and -- >> but isn't incarceration -- >> they recently did a study because intuitively you might say the reason crime went down is because we locked all the bad people up. but a recent study said that statistically that's not the case. there's a small percentage of it that impacted the crime rate early on but over the last 10 or 15 years, incarceration hasn't improved the crime rate. >> i'm going to get in a lot of trouble if i don't ask you about your work. because you have a lot of fans not only at cnn but around the country, around the world. you won an academy award for the song "glory" which you co-wrote with common, and you said more black men are under correctional control than they were under slavery in 1850. >> mm-hmm. >> this is personal for you. >> well, it's personal for me

because i've had family members that have gotten caught up in the system. i have had family friends that i grew up with that have been caught up in the system. people that grew up in my same neighborhood. i could have been one of them. and so i do take this personally, but i have seen it destroy way too many families. i've seen it destroy way too many communities. and as i go through our schools and through our communities and see the results of these -- this situation where you see so many kids growing up without a father, for instance, so many kids that have some kind of parent in prison or under probation or parole, can't get a job, can't vote for various reasons, you just have to think that there's a better way to do this than what we're doing right now. >> and what means more to you, winning an academy award, winning all these grammys, or your political activism? >> you know what, i'm fortunate that they're not separate. you know, my music has given me an opportunity and particularly winning the oscar for "glory"

from the film "selma" which is about fighting for justice and equal rights for all. ♪ one day when the glory comes ♪ ♪ it will be ours, it will be ours ♪ ♪ oh, glory ♪ ♪ glory ♪ ♪ glory ♪ >> it gave me an opportunity to speak out on behalf of people who may be voiceless otherwise, who people may not listen to otherwise, and i'm trying to back that up with actual action. >> you sound like somebody who might want to run for political office one day. we are in washington, i have to ask the question. >> i have no interest. >> i have no interest. >> no interest. >> reporters like me will always say that's not a no. that's like saying i'm not running right now. >> no, i don't want to ever run for political office. i feel my political activism can exist outside of me running for political office. >> finally, president obama, how would you grade his presidency right now? >> i think there's been a lot of successes. i think health care reform is one that i'm particularly proud

of. i think the fact that -- >> you worked hard to get him elected. >> yes. absolutely. health care being affordable and accessible to so many more americans now is going to go down in history as a huge accomplishment. i think the stimulus package, i thought it could have been a little bigger, but what it did accomplish was bringing the unemployment rate down to where it is now. >> what if he doesn't get a handle on the policing issue? >> i think there's more to do, and i'm going to push the president to get more involved in criminal justice reform. i'm going to suggest some ideas that we think could help improve the situation. but a lot of it has to do with state and local governments as well. that's why we went to the state house in texas. that's why we were in sacramento with gavin newsom because a lot of these laws are enacted on a state level so we need state by state change as well. it's important the president is behind us, but it's also important that we get legislators and governors across the you don't do it as well. >> if you change your mind about running for office, give cnn the scoop, will you? >> i will. don't hold your breath.

>> we might just a little bit. but john legend, thank you very much for your time. great talking with you. >> thank you. >> john legend recently launched the free america campaign which will focus on ending mass incarceration and reforming the criminal justice system, and we'll be right back. meet the world's newest energy superpower. surprised? in fact, america is now the world's number one natural gas producer... and we could soon become number one in oil. because hydraulic fracturing technology is safely recovering lots more

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big day? ah, the usual. moved some new cars. hauled a bunch of steel. kept the supermarket shelves stocked. made sure everyone got their latest gadgets. what's up for the next shift? ah, nothing much. just keeping the lights on. (laugh) nice. doing the big things that move an economy. see you tomorrow, mac. see you tomorrow, sam. just another day at norfolk southern.

thanks for watching "state of the union." i'm jim acosta in washington. "fareed zakaria gps" starts right now. -- captions by vitac -- www.vitac.com this is "gps," the global public square. welcome to all of you in the united states and around the world. i'm fareed zakaria. we'll start today's show with something americans see as a bigger threat than iran, russia, north korea, or china -- isis. we'll help you sort fact from fiction on the rise of these terrorists, their aspirations, and their true power today.