ches whether in baltimore, new york, boston, will remain peaceful. i'm wolfs blitter in "the situation room." cnn's live coverage will continue right now with erin burnett "outfront." erin? thank you, wolf. we are continuing our breaking news coverage of the state of emergency in baltimore and growing protests around the country. right now this is a protest you're looking at in new york city. as people are gathering around the country in response to protests in baltimore. on the streets of baltimore, police warning they're expecting massive crowds and the outrage as i said is spreading. you've got other major cities knock being just one of them boston also having demonstrations tonight in solidarity with the city of baltimore. the rally here in new york billed as rise up and shut it down with baltimore. in baltimore nearly 250 people arrested in the past two nights. at least 20 officers injured, six seriously. the cure few goes into effect in less than they hours.

we're also learning tonight that while protesters have been calling for justice for freddie gray the black man who died of spinal injury in police custody, prosecutors don't have a slam dunk case. could the city erupt again if no charges are announced? no charges being announced is a real possibility, apparently. we have a breaking development ahead. and the president doubling down on his use of the word "thug" to describe rioters. last night on "outfront" that word prompted this angry response from baltimore councilman karl stokes. >> come on. so calling them thugs? just call them nig -- we don't have to call them by names such as that we don't have to do that. >> much more with karl stokes on this program tonight. cnn has reporters in baltimore and across the nation. we begin with brian todd in baltimore in the middle of the protests there. brian, the protests are larger than what we have seen recently.

what are you seeing? >> reporter: indeed much larger erin and more structured. this protest march mostly college students hundreds of them several hundred marching from penn station in baltimore to city hall. they tell us they're going to march back toward penn station. who knows how long this protest will go. i'm with one of the marchers now, rashaun smith, a sophomore, what has drawn you out here? >> i'm out here to support black lives and -- [ crowd noise ] i don't want to have to walk outside and -- [ crowd noise ] black lives matter. all black lives matter. >> rashaun, thank you very much for talking to us good luck with the march. erin that's one of the sentiments that's strong with people out here. another one of is a lot of these

folks feel the recent violence in baltimore that is drawn attention away from the face of freddy x-ray and other prominent faces in the news police treatment of young black then. they want to bring focus back to the streets of baltimore. check it out. this crowd, very dynamic, they're going to march uphill back toward penn station. as i said they're a little bit more organized than they have been. they've got a truck with a flatbed and they've called various speakers up to the front there to speak at the flatbed. they stopped for a long time at city hall to do that. now they're back on the move erin. we don't know where this is going the rest of the evening but it was very dynamic march. >> thank you very much brian todd. you could hear the dynamism in that march. in new york city crowds are growing calling for cancerous advertise for freddie gray. our alex field is live in downtown manhattan. that is the picture you are looking at right now. this is not baltimore, the protest, this is new york city.

alexander, what are you seeing? >> reporter: i'm looking into the crowd seeing a homemade sign "we will not forget michael brown, eric garner walter scott, freddie gray." there are so many similar signs. hundreds have come out here to gather. i was told by one of the organizers earlier tonight this was going to be a place where people could come to express both their outrage and sadness. what i want to point out is that this is what it looks like when you have a peaceful protest. these are people who have been joined together by their passion, they are expressing it in a very passionate way. the visual here is symbolic. it certainly garners attention. the expression here is nothing if not respectful. these are people who have come to listen to one another and they hope to be heard. these are people of all ages all races. this is very reflective of what we saw over the winter when so many people rallied after the death of eric garner. this was organized on social media. people had time to get down here. they were prepared to participate. erin that means nypd was also

prepared for this. we saw them out here even before the crowds assembled. they set up l warning to the crowd. they had a recorded message warning people that if they were walking in the streets or obstructing the sidewalk that they could be arrested for disorderly conduct. they even passed out these fliers. it seems to excite or upset the crowd initially, a lot of people were chanting and starting to scream "our streets." the police have turned off the recording, we have not seen any kind of physical confrontation between the demonstrators and the police and we have not seen any kind of verbal confrontation either. the police are standing back right now and they are allowing people their right to express themselves out here in this park tonight. >> certainly a very diverse crowd there where alex is in manhattan. tonight officials telling cnn the case against the six baltimore officers involved in freddie gray's arrest is anything but a clear-cut case. that is obviously a crucial development as you see protests in multiple cities. baltimore city hall evan perez, you're reporting on this.

you've been hearing charges are far from a sure thing at this time. >> reporter: that's right, erin. we've seen this video. a few seconds of video that we've seen. that's certainly what has brought a lot of these people into the streets is the idea that they believe this is a clear-cut case that these officers should be arrested that these officers should space charges. i'm told by people close to the investigation that that is far from being a done deal that there is still a lot of work to do and we may be looking at weeks, months while they wait for a lot of key pieces of the case to be brought together. the key thing here that they're waiting for is the medical examiner's report which is still in the works. it still may be weeks away. they're going to look for experts in addition to their own work before they present a report to the state attorney's office. >> medical examiner's report as you're saying could be weeks away. that's at the center of all of this. what was the injury to his spine? how was it sustained? in the van, before the van, before the incident? all of these questions.

if there are no charges what is the city doing? you say weeks, months. that is not a good proposition when you look at the crowds on the streets right now. >> reporter: that's right. and you know what's really unique about this baltimore case in particular is that in previous incidents we had the rodney king riots which happened after there was a verdict from the court. you know this case people are already calling for -- they already think they know what the answer is. and what the government is trying to do is lower those expectations because as we just discussed, they still might not be the charges -- not the type of charges that people on the streets here are looking for, erin. >> all right, evan, thank you very much. significant development. "outfront," dee watkins, long-time baltimore resident and professor who wrote about his experiences growing up with the baltimore police in the "new york times" op ed this morning. daniel bangino, former nypd officer and secret service

agent. dee, you know baltimore so well. the people of baltimore, you heard evan's reporting there may not be charges and they may not have a decision here for a long time. are the people of baltimore prepared for this? what happens if there is no decision for months? and if there are no charges against these officers? -- >> it's hard to say. right now baltimore doesn't look like baltimore. we're living in a mill tarized state right now. even walking over here i passed all types of humvees and dudes with assault rifles and guns that plug into vans and things like that. so it's hard to say. let's just hope that the right thing happens so we don't have to worry about that. >> i guess the question is what is the right thing? in your op ed you wrote, when it comes to baltimore police department i'm quoting your op ed the only option is to rise up and force mayor rawlings-blake to make what should be an easy choice stop protecting the livelihoods of the cops who killed freddie gray or watch baltimore burn to the ground."

what are you trying to say there? it sounds like you're saying if there are no charges there's going to be violence and that's the right thing? >> you know i'm not saying -- i would never say violence is the right thing. but i am saying that i sympathize with the frustration of a lot of young people who took to the streets earlier this week. rise up can mean a number of things. i feel right now, people are rising up right now in front of city hall. there's beautiful protest going on right now. diverse. i see black faces and white faces and latinos and asians. it looks like a blackout peace concert. again, the same message, a bunch of different people from a bunch of different walks of life who all want justice. i think this is definitely something that i wish more mainstream media were out here reporting. this is a beautiful peaceful protest. you know hopefully we can keep the peace and hopefully justice is served for freddie gray. >> daniel what do baltimore police do? if there are no charges, at this point how does baltimore and the police department convince a

skeptical community, frankly, and skeptical people around the country who are now protesting in other cities new york and boston that this is fair? how could they possibly make people think it's fair? >> erin it's going to be tough. and frankly, due to people like dee, who i read his op ed and his op ed seems to set up a hobson's choice. the choice being, either street justice for the cops before we even have the information, or burn baltimore to the ground. that was in the piece. why he would write that, i don't understand. and i bring it up because we saw this happen in ferguson. in ferguson where the hands up don't shoot narrative made it out into the mainstream and then we found out later that that's not, in fact what happened. i mean eric holder said it himself, our attorney general. so they have to manage expectations. but sadly, dee's not helping by already jumping to a conclusion about what happened. if these cops are guilty, if there's guilty they should absolutely be punished like anyone else who did this.

but dee knows nothing about what happened. and it is horribly irresponsible for him to even mention the term burn to the ground in an op ed piece. he's going to be the first one running away when the fire starts -- >> i mentioned burn to the ground -- i'm not running anywhere. >> you are running. >> i mentioned burn to the ground in the op ed -- no i'm not running anywhere i'm right here i'm not going anywhere. i mentioned burn to the ground in the op ed piece because the city was burning. that's what happened. >> i read your piece -- >> no you don't -- you've read it but you probably couldn't comprehend it. >> why is that? >> you don't know what it is to live in a city -- >> i grew up in the city thanks dee. >> no you don't -- >> i don't know what you do? >> you don't know what it is to be black and live in a city like baltimore. >> what don't i understand? >> you don't understand how it is to be constantly harassed and brutalized by police officers. >> you're right. >> you don't get it. you don't understand you have a police background you are protecting your fellow gang meant. i understand where you're coming

from protecting your fellow gang members that do the same thing that you do i understand where you're coming from. these people are frustrated -- >> see how hard it is to make a rational argument? do you see how hard it is to make a rational argument? >> it's not really that hard. >> are you going to let me talk? >> let dan finish dee, then i'll come back to you for a response. go ahead, dan, and dee will respond. >> you see, unlike dee, i'm going to make a rational argument. i'm not denying to dee that the black experience with policing has been far different. he's correct. i have no idea what that's like. but so the logic there is that every cop all the time is a gang member? his words, not mine. and that we should subject cops to some form of street justice, and if that's not the case we should burn the city down. ask dee thinks he's a credible figure in this argument -- >> no one said -- >> you said it. >> no one said street justice. >> read your piece again. it's your word. >> dee, let me quote what you said in the piece here and give you a chance to explain what you meant. what you said was, "stop

protecting the livelihoods of the cops who killed freddie gray or watch baltimore burn to the ground." what exactly were you trying to say when you wrote that? >> i was saying that the citizens of baltimore feel disenfranchised and cheated. the freddie gray case it's an open and shut case. fy broke a guy's neck it wouldn't take this long to lock me up. especially if the guy died of murder. you'll i'm saying is that these people here feel frustrated and we're angry and i would never condone violence i don't think violence is the answer or the key, but i'm saying these people are acting that way because they feel like a lopsided justice system isn't working for them. the only reason why i used the words burn to the ground when i wrote those words my city that i love was on fire. >> to dee's point there is a history for the baltimore police of aggressive behavior right? fbi says officers have killed 127 people over two decades. that's more than other cities of the same size. they've paid $6 million in judgments. in just the past few years. for police misconduct.

so dee has a point. >> yeah, listen, erin i am in no way denying there are serious and credible cases of police use of force that in some cases has been criminal. been worse than criminal. that have been moral hi ethically, legally wrong. i don't know any serious cop who would deny that. but that's not an argument to write an op ed like dee did, using incendiary language no pun intended i mean that incendiary language, then run from it. there are a lot of really good people in baltimore who get it. it's their businesses that are going to burn to the ground. it's not -- >> why do you keep talking about -- >> you keep interrupting me it's annoying. >> you keep saying i'm running and it's not true. that's annoying. >> dee, you're talking about -- you're not talking about them burning your house to the ground. you're talking about other people's property you don't own. you don't find that as grow tefrkly irresponsible -- >> you don't know. you don't know what i own. >> all right.

>> look i don't want to see -- i don't want to see anyone get hurt. i don't want to see anyone get hurt i just want justice for freddie gray and his family. >> all right. >> if you can comprehend what i wrote, maybe you would understand more. >> i appreciate both of your time tonight, thank you. we are waiting a live police briefing out of baltimore. we just got word that was going to be happening this hour. you're looking at live pictures. massive crowds on the streets tonight. the curfew less than three hours away. and baltimore's tough love mom speaking out to cnn. my guest tonight, presidential hopeful, long-time baltimore resident, dr. ben carson, with a message to the rioters here on "outfront." protesters insisting, we are not thugs, in response to what the president labeled them. we'll be right back. ♪music continues♪

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breaking news. protests erupting on the streets of baltimore tonight. also in new york and in boston. we're seeing it. these are live pictures. brian todd in this picture walking with the protesters in baltimore. you can also see in washington in new york city as i said also in boston thousands of national guard and state troopers are out on the streets of baltimore tonight. and in solidarity with baltimore, outrage stemming from the death of freddie gray, the black man who suffered severe spinal injury in baltimore police custody, now nationwide. jason carroll is "outfront" in baltimore. jason, you're in the middle of the crowds. what are the protesters saying

what's the mood? it sounds more energetic and enthused than it did last night. >> reporter: a lot of energy a lot of enthusiasm. as we're marching now through the streets of downtown baltimore, this is a protest erin that started at johns hopkins university then they marched to city hall. now they're going to march back to penn station. as we walk through this community, stopping briefly, people looking out of their apartment buildings as they watch hundreds and hundreds of people peacefully i re-emphasize that peacefully march through the city. this is a diverse crowd, multi-cultural crowd. i met a group of nurses who are out here holding big signs saying marching for healing. then students from johns hopkins. one common denominator they all have is they want to be able to show the world, show the country, that people from all walks of life can come together and can march peacefully in

speaking out for a cause. they say that they're going to march all the way to penn station. you can see the hundreds and hundreds that have gathered here and continuing to march. i did ask about the curfew which as you know goes into effect about in about three hours. folk is i talk to say they are going to honor that curfew and they're going to continue marching and having their voices heard. >> and jason, you know i know the video of the california mom -- sorry, baltimore mom, toya graham has been getting a lot of attention. this video which we've all seen went viral. smacking her son, getting him out of the riots, bringing him home. what are you hearing tonight about her son and her and what's happened to them? >> first of all, let me say i've met her and i can safely say there are a lot of toyas in this crowd tonight. that video that went viral showing her slapping her 16-year-old son michael, who i met a little earlier today. basically, this is a woman who

cares deeply about her son. she is a single mom, six children doing it on her own. when she saw her son out there, she decided to put a stop to it. >> he was actually embarrassing himself by wearing that mask and hoodie and doing what he was doing. at some point i told him to take the mask off because why are you hiding behind a mask? if you want to be bold enough to do this then show your face. >> she was worried about you? >> right. she didn't want me to get in trouble by the law. she didn't want me to be like another freddie gray. >> reporter: when i spoke to michael earlier, i said what were you thinking when you were out there doing that? and he said, i wasn't thinking. when i spoke to his mom and i asked her specifically, i said when you see so much like this happening in your community, she said look i don't want to see another freddie gray whether it

be my son or anyone else's son. i think that's the sentiment of so many women who are how the here, so many help who are out here. that's why these people continue to march for peace. >> all right, jason carroll, thank you very much. you'll see more of toya -- >> "outfront," dr. ben carson expected to announce he's running for president on monday. he has very close ties to baltimore. he lived there for 36 years. dr. carson, it's a pleasure to have you on this show. the video of the baltimore mom, toya graham. it's gone viral. everybody has now seen this video many times. she smacks her son for joining in the riots. she forcibly brings him home. you're a parent to three sons. did she do the right thing? >> well she certainly reminds me of my mother. she would have certainly have done that if i'd been out there doing such silliness. put it's such a wonderful

example of parental responsibility. parents, grand parents, guardians. need to play a very active role in the lives of these children. that's what will mold the kind of adults that they become. and that will add character to the fabric of our society. so i commend her. you know i don't necessarily think violence is always the answer. but sometimes in a desperate situation, a mom needs to get her son out of the situation feeling that he may be in danger. >> and so as i said this video went viral. the cover of the "new york post" today reads "forget the national guard, send in the moms." obviously a somewhat humorous way of saying a serious question which is are the national guard less effective than a mother? >> there is no question that the most effective way to avoid danger and to guarantee success is good parenting.

and it's something that we really need to talk about more in our society. as we moved away from talking about the kinds of values that really created an incredibly strong backbone for our nation. nothing wrong with that at all. >> dr. carson you just heard the baltimore native dee watt tins on the show. today in the "new york times," i'll quote him, "to us the baltimore police department is a group of terrorists funded by our tax dollar who beat on people in our community daily." as a black man who spent decades living in baltimore as you have was that your experience with the police department? >> i certainly had many many encounters with the police. many cases over people who had been shot over various other types of trauma. and i think the baltimore police are some of the finest people i've ever met. they've worked with me in terms of helping to educate children going and talking to them about making wise choices.

and i've never had an unpleasant encounter. that doesn't mean that there aren't bad apples of course there are bad apples. there are bad apples in every profession. even in the news media. but it doesn't mean that you go out and try to take out all the people in that profession. that's silliness. >> you're obviously in florida right now talking to me. marty o'mally has come back from ireland to come to baltimore, other leaders of baltimore are back. why aren't you there? >> because i'm here. i can only be in one place at one time. >> are you going to go? if it's this important? >> i do have a schedule. we have lots of mechanisms for being able to speak to people. i was on television in baltimore yesterday morning. and i've weighed in on this in multiple situations. so i'm not going to break commitments that i have elsewhere when i can easily get the information disseminated. >> all right. dr. carson i appreciate your time thank you so much for

coming "outfront," sir. >> a pleasure. next we are awaiting a police briefing that should be happening just around half past the hour. in another three minutes we will update you on that. we're going to be bringing that to you live. meanwhile you're looking at live pictures of the protest on the streets of baltimore. a lot of people are out, it is a very diverse crowd tonight. they are chanting they are energized, and so far they are peaceful. plus on this program last night an emotional reaction to president obama calling young rioters thugs. >> come on, so calling them thugs, just call them nig -- just call them nig -- we don't have to call them by names such as that we don't have to do that. >> baltimore councilman karl stokes is "outfront" again tonight. his hands in the air, police charged this man, pushed him into an armored vehicle. people are asking, where is joseph kent? thank you for being a sailor, and my daddy.

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thousands of protesters gathering in cities across the

u.s. marching in solidarity with those in baltimore, protesting the death of freddie gray in police custody. chants of "black lives matter." some are carrying signs reading "we are not thugs" in reaction to the president's comments yesterday calling the rioters and looters thugs. a huge demonstration in new york city right now as well. so far, these protests have remained peaceful tonight. alex field is among the protesters in new york city. alex i know that you've just seen a bit of a change in terms of police response. >> that's right this confrontation now happening live. this had started as a peaceful protest. police had warned that people could not walk in the streets, that they could be arrested for disorderly conduct if they took to the streets. what we saw in the last few minutes was a big crowd of hundreds of people marching across 17th street heading west across manhattan. police cutting them off as they tried to approach. you can now see police trying to

hold them back. th put some people into wire hand ties. we've seen them make the first few arrests. we're hearing nypd come? over the loud speakers warning people that they will be arrested for obstructing sidewalks. you saw a few trying to resist arrest now a great deal of the crowd has been pushed back onto the sidewalk. part of this street clearing out. you've got this influx of nypd officers who are trying to keep control of this crowd. i've heard a lot of people in the crowd chanting now "baltimore we've got your back" and "our streets." we've certainly now seen at least a handful of people being taken into arrest. and this group of nypd officers out in the streets now. we've got someone on the ground we can get in and see this another arrest being made. officers also trying to talk to people on the sidewalks, trying to keep more of them out of the streets, trying to stop them from joining in. again, erin, i want to reiterate this started as a peaceful gathering in union square for an

hour hour and a half. people were listening to speakers they were chanting, they were doing a little bit of singing. when they decided to get in the streets nypd came through on this threat. they'd handed out fliers earlier saying they would step in to arrest people if they obstructed sidewalks or got in the streets. nypd now showing that was not a hollow threat. they have cut them off really just within the first half block of this march. this is union square. just down here. so really this crowd didn't get far at all before the mess came in and started making these arrests. i want you to take a look at what's happening out here on 17th street in manhattan before your eyes. this started as a protest to show solidarity with baltimore. nypd again now making a handful of these arrests. >> alex were you able to understand exactly what happened to have a change? when you were talking to us not even 30 minutes ago, this was remarkably peaceful. and now, obviously, you're

seeing this isolated incident -- go ahead. >> right. about half an hour when we were on the phone or when we were talking to you, we were saying this is a representation what was a peaceful protest looks like. a few minutes ago we heard people saying let's march, this walk. this wasn't be a organized march, this was just an organized gathering billed on social media. when we got down here talked to organizers they said they hadn't made plans for a march but they weren't going to stop people if that's what people wanted to do. here's the difference. you saw in this city these marches happen for weeks during the winter. you saw a lot of them happen without any incidents. but the nypd did warn this evening that people could not take over the streets tonight, that they could not take over the sidewalks. that was a different tactic than what they employed back over the winter when you may recall we would often walk for miles at a time following crowds of protesters who wanted to

demonstrate, who wanted to make themselves heard, who wanted to carry their signs. so just as soon as this crowd started to pour out of union square police intercepted them cut them off. the crowd headed from east to west. the police cut them off coming from west to east. there was the confrontation that happened right out here in the middle of 17th street. the police tried to force this crowd back to where they had come from. a lot of people again getting out of the way of police listening to police orders getting on the sidewalk. you did see a few people who are put in those hand ties who have been arrested now. we're told they're going to be charged with disorderly conduct. >> thank you very much, we'll check back in as more develops. these protests in solidarity with baltimore and other cities one of them being in new york. the white house doubling down standing by the president's controversial comments calling those who are engaging in riots and looting in baltimore thugs. here's white house spokesman josh earnest today. >> no i don't think the president would in any way

revise the remarks. what's also true and what did get the lion's share of the coverage out of baltimore were the actions of a small minority that were nothing short of criminal actions. whether it's arson or the looting of a liquor store, those were thuggish acts. >> the doubling down in response to some people taking issue with the president's use of the word thugs, including one guest on this program last night. i want to warn our viewers that the language and what i'm going to play right now is offensive. >> come on, so calling them thugs, just call them niggers. no. we don't have to call them by names such as that. we don't have to do that. >> karl stokes is a baltimore city councilman, "outfront" with us tonight. tara setmyer is a former communications director for a

republican member of congress. i appreciate both of you being with us. karl that you can for coming back. i want to understand more about what you were saying. the president obviously you heard his spokesman stand big his use of what he described these rioters and looters as criminals and thugs. the merriam webster dictionary defines thug as "a violent criminal." you heard if it's arson or looting of a store, those are thuggish acts that fit the definition of the word. what is wrong then with what the president said? >> i have no problem with the president. as i said last night, no one can donees the criminal acts of those who participate in the looting, the fires, any of the criminal acts that went on. what i said was that we need to heal. and that many of these young people not the people who were leading this but those 14 15-year-olds who were misled misdirected, who felt lost and who were breaking out, speaking

out, for whatever neglect that had gone through their lives, they deserve a chance to be gain ed engaged, for us to begin healing. let me tell you, university of kentucky won a national championship in basketball a few weeks ago. there was rioting, burning of cars there was looting going on. the university of maryland college park won a football game. they injured many police officers they turned over cars they started fires. michigan the same thing. now, what do we call those rioters? we call them college students. we didn't refer to them as thugs. we said college students were rioting. this is a racially sensitive issue for the children in baltimore city. 2,000 college students just marched to city hall to protest the use of the words that are demeaning to the children in this town. >> all right. so -- by the way, it would seem that by the definition of the

word what you're describing those kids doing in those other places thuggish behavior. that's a thug. it should not be racial. if they were white and doing those things they're thugs. tair ra, to the point karl is making there are some who see this as racist at this point. the word "thug" has become linked to a racist terminology. tupak shakur popularized "the thug life," had a tattoo across his stomach, started a group named thug life. this is a racial word? >> it shouldn't be. the term thug has been used for decades to describe all kinds of people who behave in a criminally violent way. it's used against chicago mobsters and thuggery back then. it was used in comic books to describe villains in the '50s. it was commonly used thugs. we were talking before. the president has used the term thug across the board to describe terrorists in ukraine in boko haram, isis.

to make this a racial issue i think is really taking away from the root of what's happening here. it's a complete distraction. and what this does it simple he removes the responsibility from a lot of the people who have failed the residents of baltimore, starting with baltimore leaders, city leadership on down for decades. it's failed these people and these residents. so instead of taking some responsibility perhaps, some of the folks in baltimore who have been responsible for the policies there, for the policy failures there for decades, instead of taking some responsibility and saying maybe what we've been doing the last 50 years hasn't been working, we're having arguments and wasting our time over a word like thug. which i guarantee you some of these people out here who are behaving that way probably sing rap lyrics and walk around with a badge of valor that they're in the thug life. and that's a problem in and of itself. why we even glorify that kind of behavior in the black community and hip-hop culture, that's a worthy conversation to have. not making ate racial one like

this. i think this is a waste of time. >> president obama has used this word many times. and by the way to refer to people of several different races. here he is. >> not every collection of thugs that labels themselves al qaeda will pose a credible threat to the united states. in too many countries the actions of thugs and warlords and drug cartels and human traffickers hold back the promise of africa. rather than stand by while they're being bullied and some cases detained by these thugs. negotiate with the ukrainian government. >> councilman the point i'm making is he uses the word to describe an action and a behavior which is not defined by race. because the word thug means violent or criminal behavior. >> so erin what do you call the people who are responsible for freddie gray's death? >> well those people have done

something criminal you could call those people thugs. at this point i want to make it clear we don't know exactly who is responsible, whether it was those five police officers or not. we're waiting for that verdict. >> no no. we do know that. we know freddie gray didn't break his own neck we know that. we know freddie gray didn't crush his own voice box. we know that. why won't you admit what these people are? if you're so willing to do that for the other folk. >> i would be perfectly happy to call them thugs, i'm waiting for a court of law for charges to show a medical examiner report so we know exactly what happened. that's what i'm waiting for. >> but that's changing the focus -- >> we neither know nor care. we know what happened. we know that they are responsible for his death. you have that information already. the police have admitted as much. >> i think that there are legitimate questions here with what went on with freddie gray. and why it's taking so long i'm not sure. but there is a process and we need to respect it. it's not helping the situation that we don't have the information.

but we need to be careful -- >> we know what happened. >> they said the same thing about michael brown in ferguson, sir, and they did not know what happened it turned out to be a complete lie and fabrication. and what was initially what people thought what they were rioting in the streets over never actually happened. we need to be careful with running to -- having vigilante justice, we can't do that. i'm not saying the baltimore police department doesn't have problems. they have for many years. corruption on down. it's been a significant problem from the higher-ups on down. but there are also good officers in baltimore. we can't continue to sit here and say and just throw respect for authority and law and justice out the window -- >> most of the officers are good. >> yes, absolutely. >> i've said that. the baltimore community supports the officers in our town. we have many many good officers thousands, a couple of thousand numbers, close to 3,000, almost all of our officers are good people who work in our community. we support our officers. 100%. >> right.

we have kids -- >> that's acting like a thug and if they were black, if they were white, if they were yellow or green, when you're throwing bricks and rocks at police officers that are trying to respond and protect innocent people and property that's thuggish behavior. when you have people that are cutting the fire hoses of fire trucks trying to stop the burning of communities, that's thuggish behavior. >> so we do use different words for black people versus white people. we do. i just talked to you about all of the college students who have been rioting and never once has the media called those rioters, those looters, those abusers of police, thugs. not once. >> all right thanks very much to both of you. i appreciate it it's a good conversation and part of a much broader one, of course that's very important to have. "outfront" next live pictures on the streets of new york. police officers are arresting protesters. we're going to go back live there next. some of the numbers we have coming in we have many people

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we're standing by right now for a live press conference. it's going to be right here at these microphones from the baltimore police commissioner batts. he will be speaking momentarily with an update on what we're seeing. and we're just about two hours away, of course from the curfew. more people on the streets than we have seen even last night. so far, though very, very peaceful in the city of baltimore. also large protests in new york city we're also seeing protests in cities including washington, d.c. here in new york city the nypd is making arrests. alexandra field is with the protesters saw the first of the arrests happening. alexandra, what happened? >> reporter: erin i want to show what's happening now. we have these nypd officers out here lined up shoulder to shoulder committed to keeping people off of the streets. officers telling other officers if you see anyone in the street force them back on to the sidewalk. we've got these mesh fences i

don't know if you can see them through the crowd, but the nypd is using to keep them on the corners. erin this started as a very peaceful protest, a large crowd, hundreds and hundreds of people just behind me back there in union square. they had gathered said this was going to be a place to express their sadness and outrage, but the nypd said they were not going to have free reign of the streets of the city tonight. as soon as people left union square park came right out here to 17th street police started pushing them back. those who resisted refused to get on the sidewalk those who refused to disperse were arrested. we think we've got maybe a couple dozen arrests. tough to keep track. we have seen a lot of people have the hand ties put on. one person being carried out of here for resisting. another person taken away in an ambulance. still a very tense situation, erin. we've got more and more nypd officers who have been brought in here. some of them wearing helmets with face masks.

protesters responding saying they're going to walk somewhere else. a big crowd has taken off south of here saying they might wrap around toward the 6th avenue. right now you've got this standoff outside union square park with part of this crowd refusing to leave, police holding their line here in the middle of the street. and we're going to have to wait and see if there is another arrest being made right now. being in this crowd being warned they could be charged with disorderly conduct and certainly a lot being taken away in cuffs. a lot of people in this crowd beginning to feel agitated some saying they don't feel they're being respected by the police. the nypd trying to stop this situation from escalating erin. i feel this has come as something as a surprise to some of these demonstrators, because you'll remember just a few months ago, there were a lot of marches, a lot of protests following the death of eric garner in which people were allowed or given the freedom to take to the streets, to demonstrate, to chant, to hold their signs, as long as they were not acting in any capacity

outside of that. of course we did see some arrests over the winter these arrests coming swiftly and quickly, erin. >> alex what's your understanding? it looks like the press is about to start. bear with me alex. there's commissioner batts from the baltimore police department. i believe he's going to walk over to the camera. >> when our guys were out there, can you imagine getting hit in the face with one of these things. and that's what these guys have been dealing with. they have a number of officers that have -- probably have broken hands or other bumps and bruises. they haven't come off the line. officers hit in the head hit in the face. so when we talk about people just throwing rocks, we -- this is one of the small ones coming at my officers that were out there. just want to share that. because i think they're extremely courageous and i think they have been standing tall, and i would like to thank you guys because i've been listening to the news, as your commentators have reported that the organizations have been very professional. we have been very deliberate on

what we have done and i think the organization as a whole, i agree with you guys has done a good job. so thank you, and i think the officers have been very courageous. today we have had no officer injuries so far. we have had no major incidents. we have had the large crowd that came down to city hall. i had resources stationed in front of city hall. i have placed resources down in our inner harbor all day. i have shifted resources from state as well as national guard, as well as baltimore police department in a multitude of multiagencies up at mondaven mal. i have placed resources at north and pennsylvania. we have had no major incidents, no major events at this point. we're getting ready for curfew. i've directed all resources to start paying attention, that curfew going in effect in less

than two hours. i believe now the governor and the mayor are getting ready for a full briefing that most likely will take place about 8:30. so we're preparing for that. other than that we have had 16 adult arrests throughout the day. and two juveniles. and i can't tell you what the 16 arrests are for. is there any questions i can answer? >> just so we're clear, because i've heard a lot of people talking about information that will or won't be turned over on friday. just so the public has a clear expectation, what can they expect to know about the freddie gray investigation and that report? >> much like i said last friday when we did the news conference what we're going to be turning over is preinvestigative work that we have placed -- put together. the same thing we shared we will be turning that over to the state's attorney.

if you're anticipating actions it will be it turned over to the state's attorney. and from there, they will take the ball. >> so you won't be releasing any information to the public on friday? >> we will be turning over all the information to the state's attorney. they then take the lead. >> what about the public? so no information will be coming from the police department regarding this investigation to the public. because you said in the past -- you said last week that -- >> i said last week what we would be doing is turning over information, much like i'm saying tonight, to the state's attorney and they take the lead from that point. also what i said we can't put out too much information, that it may jeopardize the case itself. if anyone needs to be prosecuted. so we're limiting what information that goes out there for the purpose of prosecution, if that's an issue. >> the public defender's office says over 100 people who have been arrested are being released without any charges. can you tell us what happened there? was it something that you just couldn't be able to process in

time in 48 hours? what happened? >> we've come up on a time line. we are still releasing them with future prosecution in mind. >> are there any spots in the city specifically tonight as you approach curfew -- >> one more time. >> are there any spots in the city tonight as we approach curfew that concern you like last night? >> i was very pleased with what took place in the city last night. for the most part i think curfew worked extremely well. like i said much like the mayor predicted. we got people off the street. i think the same thing will happen now. much like this large protest, extremely peaceful but a few going home in enough time before curfew in about two hours. right now i think we'll be okay. i anticipate no major issues. we do have a lot of resources. i have placed them in multiple places around the city to anticipate any issues. but i don't think there's going to be. [ inaudible question ]

>> one more time. i can't hear you. [ inaudible question ] >> we had a device that looks like it was a home made device. it was inert. we found it on i believe north and pennsylvania. and we have to pay attention not only to rocks, we have to pay attention to bottles. inert devices too at this point in time. it's nothing over alarming for us but we made sure officers are paying attention. >> this photo of you on twitter, you were grabbing or tackling a person. can you tell us what was happening there? >> on monday do haven mall prior to them advancing across the street i saw probably about four or five or six young people picking up rocks, throwing them at officers as a whole. i went over to apprehend one or two of them and the picture you see is one of them i was grabbing as i was trying to grab the second one.

[ inaudible question ] >> we had an officer -- i believe it's a female officer that had an injury to the leg, and everybody has been released. [ inaudible question ] flying rocks. >> can you provide more detail on these people released, do you expect all of them to be charged? >> we're not giving up on them. we're just going to follow up. but i think the system right now is trying to catch up but we'll give further information if you need it. i have to meet with the governor and the mayor. >> thank you. >> that was police commissioner batts in baltimore. where as you can see, crowds are gathering. a few headlines. 18 new arrests today. he's optimistic the curfew tonight will be respected. he did say no further injuries today of baltimore city police officers. and he actually though had a rock to show some of the things that have been thrown at them. talked about an inert device they found. also talking about bottles.

but he seemed very optimistic about the curfew being respected and how things were handled last night. thanks for joining us. our continuing coverage of the breaking news continues right now with anderson cooper. anderson. >> erin thanks very much. good evening, everyone. from baltimore. -- captions by vitac -- www.vitac.com we just heard from anthony batts reporting his officers made 18 arrests today, reminding people the curfew is still very much in effect and that that curfew will be enforced at 10:00, saying he anticipates no major issues. those were his words. there are a lot of demonstrations on the streets. you're seeing one right there. a large crowd moving peacefully through the streets. i actually encountered that crowd in traffic just a short time ago, and i can tell you, they are actually directing traffic themselves. the protesters are out in front of that protest. i didn't actually