o the streets in new york washington minneapolis and ferguson missouri last night. we begin our team coverage with cnn's rosa flores on the outrage. >> emotions are high across the country. take a look at this map showing some of the cities that do have some of these protests. let me tell you something, there's a common message here. and that message is that police brutality is a national issue. now, some of the worst protests right here in new york city. take a look at this video. about 100 people were arrested. the evening started off very peacefully but hear this. it erupted when there was a small scuffle between police and protesters. 20 people ended up in zip ties. and then protesters started marching towards times square. and it only got worse. again, about 100 people ended up in handcuffs. we move onto washington, d.c. the situation here more festive than confrontational. a lot of these protesters singing on the streets. once they moved to the white house, that crowd of about 500 disbursed.

then we got more violence. but this time in denver. people took to the streets in downtown. you can see them there with police in tow. here about 11 arrests. some of those charges including resisting arrest and assault on police officers. now, we've got to say as the cities on this map grows, we know one thing. and that's that a lot of these protests are organized on social media and thousands upon thousands of people are showing up for these protests chris. >> all right, rosa. we see it's coming up a lot of the issues are the same but the outcome is different everywhere. here in baltimore thousands of police and national guard added to the mix. and we have just as many outraged citizens. the tension between the two would come down to when the clock struck 10:00. and here's what happened. >> go home. >> curfew once again the moment of truth in baltimore.

>> you now have about 300 people here who aren't sure whether they want to leave or not. thousands of national guard added to the mix. police assembling equipment and forming the line. we just had armored show up you have the police here in bigger numbers. color sparking violence but on this night it was about gang colors as bloods and crips went at it. the police never moved. the community handles its business stepping up squashing the rogue gang bangers and enforcing the curfew. as we approach 10:00 it's moving in the right direction. the key, leadership. concerned citizens and all importantly elected leaders on the ground. ♪ we shall overcome ♪ >> reporter: baltimore representative elijah cummings and state senator pugh voices of reason people responding flanked by media they move from group to group until they're only left with reporters and calm streets.

>> we are very very proud of our folks. and we're proud of our city. >> reporter: no small irony. night turns out better than day in baltimore as massive crowds swarm city hall and penn station. the majority of protests peaceful a handful still determined to harm police hurling rocks. >> i have a number of officers that have well they probably have broken hands or other bumps and bruises. >> he's signing fake autographs for fake fans. >> the biggest reminder of disruption in baltimore seen on the field, not the streets. for the first time in history the baltimore orioles played to an empty camden yards. mlb officials too afraid of possible violence inside their stadium. >> my prayers have been out for all the families. all the kids out there, you know they're hurting. >> but what exactly happened to 25-year-old freddie gray? that remains a mystery. according to a newly-released

investigative document obtained by "the washington post," a prisoner who rode in the police van with gray who was separated by a metal partition and could not see him, told investigators he believes he was, quote, intentionally trying to injure himself. >> nobody's standing up for the officers, any of them. >> cutting against this report, a family member of one of the six officers under investigation. they wish to remain unidentified but say gray wasn't man handled on the road and the van ride was not rough. >> there were two people in the back. if he was rolling around in the back then the other person that was back there would have been rolling around in the back also. and they weren't. >> and they say a lot more than that in that interview to anderson cooper. so let's test it right now. there's no question this "the washington post" report is the new piece in the puzzle saying again, this prisoner who rode in the same police van with freddie gray not next to him he was separated by a wall. but he tells investigators he thinks gray was intentionally

trying to injure himself. let's test it. cnn reporter evan testing the developments. how strong or how big or how important is a piece of the puzzle of this? >> well this adds to the doubt that some people already have as to whether or not these officers were at fault. so this is part of the big question that police investigators are going to be facing. prosecutors in the state attorney's office are going to be facing. we're talking about a six-block ride. that's the time between the second prisoner's put in the van and the time he arrives at the police station. this all begins at 8:42. the wagon is requested. at 8:46 the van driver says that gray is being combative, he's being irate. they put him in leg irons. and then shortly thereafter the second prisoner gets in here. >> all right. if any of it is true the biggest question it raises is how hurt could freddie gray have been when he was put in the van if he was able to move so much and be so violent with himself in the van? >> right. and the question is you know

whether he was moving around thrashing around as the police have said because he was hurt because he was seeking attention, he was seeking medical attention. or as this prisoner seems to be saying in this document according to the police that he was intentionally trying to hurt himself. i don't know how he could -- >> how could he know? he's sitting on the other side of a metal thing. so has to go to what he was able to hear. >> exactly. >> and cutting against that is what coop got with this family member. she says -- tell them what she says in terms of what the officer that she knows thought about what happened to him before they got in that van. >> she doesn't seem to know how these injuries might have happened. there have been speculation that he had previous pre-existing injury. anthony batts, the police commissioner spoke on television just last week and he had a different explanation of what exactly was happening in the van. here's what he had to say. >> the second prisoner that was picked up is that he didn't see any harm done to freddie at all.

what he has said is that he heard freddie thrashing about. the driver didn't drive erratically. >> says he said. >> and, chris, you know that's the big question here. the police aren't saying that anything actually happened in the van. they don't seem to know. and that's the big open question even after all this new reporting. >> right. i mean look your reporting is always spot-on. the confusion is here is how can they not know what happened when they control the universe of possibility with their own officers. and that's teeing up all this expectation about tomorrow. and as you know evan, you've been hearing the same things here. people have been holding the line of calm and expectation of satisfaction. tomorrow what's the chance they get it tomorrow? >> there is very little chance they're going to get any satisfaction from this. we don't expect there will be any charges announced. and that's what people want. >> all right. you're going to keep reporting. so will i. let's keep discussing this. there are so many questions about what happened in the van. you have a friend of one of the baltimore police officers who spoke to cnn as we're telling

you about what may have happened to freddie gray. judge for yourself. here's what that friend had to say. >> there were two people in the back. if he was rolling around in the back then the other person that was back there would have been rolling around in the back also. and they weren't. the other person is already given a statement that they weren't rolling around. they weren't, you know they weren't manhandled as far as on the road. it wasn't a rough ride or anything like that. >> all right. all these pieces matter. that's why i was working with evan perez. he was so wired at the police he heard it's about vetting. the third cnn law enforcement analyst and former fbi assistant director tom fuentes. thank you for being here as always. let's deal with these pieces and see how they fit to us. how do you feel about this report from "the washington post" about a guy in the van but was separated by a metal panel. and it matters. it means he could not see through, but he says the guy was

thrashing around. i think he hurt himself. strong? >> no that's not strong at all. we don't know how that statement was taken from that person. i think we should really be looking at did the officers hear that statement from him, or did they pull that statement out of him? if he heard something on the other side of the wall how can he know if he was thrashing himself against the wall or maybe there was just some noise that was happening on the other side. >> taking it at its best tom, at its best if he's thrashing around if he needs leg irons, how hurt could he have been when he got in the van? reasonable cause for speculation? >> i think that's reasonable chris. how can you thrash around if you're close to having a severed spine at the neck and a crushed windpipe. how could you be yelling or making other noises as was reported was the reason for pulling over to put leg shackles on him in the first place. so that raises that question. but i agree. we don't know yet. we don't know how that statement was taken. it's kind of additional hearsay being put out there at this point. >> but step by step what's the pushback to the, well he must

have been okay if he could do that in the van in any way? what's the pushback? >> well it goes back to did that person really say that. looking at how that statement was taken. >> we know they put the leg shackles on him. >> we know here in baltimore city the way they take statements from a lot of defendants it's not just letting them talk. they push that defendant in a room by themselves and they ask them questions to get a specific type of result. >> and then we have the conversation that anderson cooper had with this family member of one of the officers involved in the situation who says that this officer does not believe that what happened to freddie gray happened in the van. that they thought he was hurt before. now, if that stands up to scrutiny because i know it's a lot of layers removed, how strong is that a piece of evidence from one of the officers involved tom? >> well it would be strong. but it would be stronger yet to hear it from the officer what exactly is the basis for thinking he's hurt how hurt do they think he is when did the injury happen who was holding

him or responsible for inflicting those injuries. did he trip on the street when he was running? we don't know those things. >> now, the main speculation you guys pushback on me if chris cuomo does this and he hires grandville you know to represent him, i feel like tom fuentes on the part of law enforcement's got plenty of answers by now. tom, plenty of answers. if you control the universe of possibility because they're all your officers involved and they're talking about me we'd have answers. we don't have them here. how do you explain it? >> the officers have a long time before they have to give any type of statement. >> they gave statements on the 12th. yes, this bill of rights that you have in maryland gives them ten days to get council. but they gave statements on the 12th five of the six guys. so that means the cops have those statements. >> but you got to understand the statements that the officers get are different than a defendant statement that you get. they get to sit down they get to talk to their attorneys, they get to get their story together and tell their side of the story. they weren't asked questions by officers like other defendants that are -- that have homicide cases. and they don't like to them and

those officers when someone's charged with a homicide or murder. the officers tell them lies. they say whatever they need to get what they need out of that person. the officers get to do it in a different way. so the answers -- >> they get to do it in a different way than they do it to themselves. in the bill of rights it says you can only interrogate an officer one-on-one and it's got to be someone they know. which would be a nice thing for perps. >> it's going to be a vanilla statement. it's going to be a statement that just says -- >> unsatisfying truth. >> we don't know how those statements were taken. were these officers separated? you have five different statements taken in five different rooms let's say, it's difficult to coordinate the same story and tell it identically. it's not like you have a panel sitting there, gentlemen, what happened out there. it's going to be done individually. it's going to be very difficult. >> true. the only reason i'm pushing to test this aggressively as i am is there's something inherently troubling about the police investigating themselves.

that's why you have all these investigations going on. the big concern is tomorrow. i think a lot of the peace in the city right now is people think there will be satisfaction. tomorrow is the police giving a preliminary set of findings to the prosecutor who's doing her own investigation. does any of that suggest to you charges tomorrow word of no charges and why tomorrow? is there any chance of that kind of closure? >> that's not going to happen at all. our state's attorney is going to have to do her own investigation. we have cases like this all the time in baltimore. that's why this is bubbled and has burst. this happens all the time in baltimore. our case last year george king he was killed by tasers by the police officers in may. everything was given over to the state's attorney. we didn't get any type of answers until october -- the end of october. that's over five months later. in this case hopefully it will come sooner. it's a different state's attorney, it's a case gotten world attention. hopefully maryland will have the

information to make the decision faster. but they didn't make the decision until they had all the medical examiner's report all the medical bills for george king they waited until they had a stack of information. even in that case they didn't indict. they sat me down in a room showed me three stacks of papers and said we don't think the officers did this. >> well every case is it's own, but we want the process to be followed as fully as possible. grandville thank you for perspective. tom, as always helping us understand how it should work at its best. we're going to have much more from baltimore here. there's a lot going on. but we should go back to new york. there's a lot going on there that's related to this and other news as well mic. we're looking at some international news right now, chris, thank you. the death toll in the nepal quake has now surpassed 5,500 victims. incredibly though people are still being found alive several days after the 7.8 magnitude quake rocked that country. incredibly some of those victims beating the odds trapped under that heavy rubble. cnn's sumina.

>> reporter: michaela five days on. incredible stories of survival are emerging. we were at the rescue scene where 18-year-old had been buried under a nine-story hotel building. he was all the way down in the basement crouched underneath a motorcycle. and that's what protected him. a massive slab of cement over the motorcycle and a tiny hole a crevice smaller than a coffin. and that's where he'd been for the past five days. the nepali police had been digging around all morning, they heard a noise and started frantically digging through the rubble. and the usaid got involved as well. as he was pulled out police say he was in state of shock but he's in good condition and has been sent to a hospital not too far from there. an 11-year-old girl was also pulled out of the rubble after 90 hours. she too appears to be in good condition. back to you, alisyn.

>> thank you for that report. well lethal injection procedures sparking a heated debate at the supreme court. the issue stems from a botched execution in oklahoma where a suspect was writhing in pain for 45 minutes after getting the first part of a three-drug cocktail. conserveative justices express concern that efforts to obtain more effective drugs are being slowed by opponents of the death penalty. five years before he crashed a german wings plane into the french alps the faa had questioned whether co-pilot andreas lubitz was mentally fit to fly. he was awarded a u.s. pilot's license only after his german doctor said he was fully recovered from severe depression depression. there's also evidence he marked no in response to a question about whether he'd ever been treated for a mental disorder. well bernie sanders plans to give hillary clinton some competition. the vermont senator jumping into the 2013 presidential race.

he'll outline his plans for winning a presidential nomination this afternoon. sanders is an independent but caucus ss with democrats in the senate. stay with us here at cnn for continuing coverage of the unrest in baltimore and around the nation. but ahead, are the protests shedding a necessary light on the inequalities of being black in america? we're going to discuss that next. why do we do it? why do we spend every waking moment, thinking about people? why are we so committed to keeping you connected? why combine performance with a conscience? why innovate for a future without accidents? why do any of it? why do all of it? because if it matters to you it's everything to us. the xc60 crossover. from volvo. lease the well equiped volvo xc60 today. visit your local volvo showroom for details. keeping a billion customers a year flying means keeping seven billion transactions flowing. and when weather hits, it's data mayhem.

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i had my turn. i want them to get their turn. what i can do is fight for them. and i've got to make sure people hear them. see, they feel as if nobody hears them. and i think we're beginning to get that. but i'm telling you, baltimore can happen anywhere. >> that was congressman elijah cummings speaking passionately about the protesters in baltimore. the unrest shedding new light on a host of civil rights issues. let's talk about these with the president and ceo of the national urban league and former

mayor of new orleans. thanks so much for being here. >> thank you for having me. >> so you think the protest and unrest is not the real story. the real story here are the underlying conditions that have led to this. go ahead. tell me. >> yeah i think the underlying conditions are something that have to be part of what we talk about and what we act on because in post-recession america and as the recoveries brought jobs to the american mainstream inner cities are being left behind. the joblessness levels are far too high. particularly among young men and young men of color. and these issues combine with friction and police misconduct are a dangerous mix for america's urban communities. and it's in baltimore, but this is a challenge of the nation. >> we have a graphic to illustrate what you're talking about. let me show you some of the statistics in baltimore. the poverty rate in baltimore is 24%. the unemployment rate for black men in baltimore between the

ages of 20 and 24 is 37%. now, compare that to the national average which is the unemployment rate is 5.5% right now. residents with a college degree only a quarter of that city 27%, has a college degree. so where do you even begin to tackle those issue sns. >> i mean you have to begin to tackle those issues by one, raising an awareness that the problems that exist in baltimore exist in most major american cities. it's not isolated to baltimore. it's in parts of new york and los angeles and cleveland and atlanta. we found that in 33 of the top 70 cities in america the black unemployment rate exceeded 15%. these are basically a window into what is occurring in america's urban communities. so when the banks teetered and totterred, we had the tarp. we had a massive -- if the banks

fell it would affect all of america. >> right. >> in this instance i would say given the protests and the numbers that we need a coordinated, wide ranging, big response to the underlying issues. >> and what does that look like? let's face it in the past decade or so the federal government has not had a great track record of creating jobs. so how do you suggest the government solve those problems? >> it's the government and the private sector together. it's the states and the cities and the feds together. we shouldn't say it's -- but no one can stand on the side and say, well the mayors should just figure it out, or the governor should just figure it out, or the president has to figure it out by itself. we need a coordinated response to create jobs. roosevelt did it in the '30s. nixon and carter had a coordinated response to the recession of the 1970s. what we've got to realize is that the recession still remains in inner city america.

and i appeal to people to understand that this challenge given where we are as a nation potentially effects the overall economy and the overall health of everyone. just because it isn't at your doorstep doesn't mean that these challenges of poverty and joblessness do not effect you. >> when you were the mayor of new orleans you had a great track record. the crime rate there dropped precipitously. now, demographics worked in your favor because there was an economic boom during that time. >> we had the '90s expansion, but we had a broad coordinated effort. we had to attack crime, but we also had massive investments in youth programs afterschool programs massive investments in jobs. the money came from the feds it came from the city budget. it came with support from the business community that i jawboned that it was in their interest to do it. it required a forceful coordinated response. i hope the mayors of america will rally around stephanie rawlings-blake but the mayors of america collectively will

speak to these problems to simply pretend they don't exist or not talk about them openly is what produces an environment where people are angry. congressman cummings is right. there's a sense out there that politicians, that people in influence and power don't care about these problems. and we've got to elevate it and say even if it isn't in your neighborhood, it effects you. >> marc morial thanks for coming into "new day." we'd love to get your take on these issues. what do you think is at the root of all the unrest? please tweet us. you can find me on twitter or you can also use the hash tag newday cnn. back to baltimore and chris. >> really helpful to hear that conversation alisyn. as you're saying there are other communities across the country that have experienced police shootings involving young black men, but not every city has reacted the way baltimore has. so what makes this place

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welcome back to baltimore. for the second night in a row a 10:00 p.m. curfew and heavy police presence did go a long way to keeping the streets largely clear and under control. but the anger in baltimore is not unique. protests in support of freddie gray and simply the desire for better policing have been breaking out coast to coast. in new york more than 100 arrested in violent clashes with police. and now we have this explosive report in "the washington post" saying another inmate who was in the police van with freddie gray though separated by a partition, says that he thinks gray was trying to injure himself. now, the motto of all lives matter and specifically black lives mattering after cases like this has become a rallying cry in our country. here in baltimore of course it is freddie gray.

in south carolina it was walter scott. caught on somebody's cell phone video sparking outrage. the violent protests here like what we saw in baltimore, you didn't see them there though. we're going to talk about that. that's one of the big issues that we're going to get to this morning within a whole host of news. let me get you back to new york because there's a lot going on involving this in new york and across the country. and big news for you as well. so back to you there. >> okay chris. we'll get back to you very shortly. first we want to tell you that the family of warren weinstein, they received help from the fbi when they decided to pay a ransom for his release in 2012. this is according to the "the wall street journal." vetted a pakistani man and provided intelligence to enable the exchange. sources telling cnn that the weinstein family now believes that money was transferred into the wrong hands. jurors say they are deadlocked in the case of the man charged with killing

6-year-old eaton patz. charges against pedro hernandez for ten days however the judge told the jury keep deliberating despite objections from defense attorneys who wanted a mistrial declared. russian space officials expect an unmanned spacecraft that failed to dock with the international space station to re-enter the earth's atmosphere in about a week. flight controllers lost contact with the rocket now orbiting the earth spinning out of control. it was carrying supplies to the space station crew including food fuel and oxygen. nasa says the crew can get by until the next resupply mission in june. let's get back to baltimore and chris cuomo. >> thank you very much. it's a little bit of a look at what's going on in the world around you as you start your new day. but back here in baltimore we want to bring in joe madison. he's the host of the joe madison show on sirius xm. in fact, he's live on the air right now. so we've agreed to simulcast

this interview and get as big an audience as we can. it's good to have you on my screen. it's good to be heard on your show. let's talk about baltimore. we saw what happened in south carolina. you did a town hall there where you dealt with people and what happened with walter scott. and while this issue about policing and how communities feel about it especially impoverished ones spreads across the country. but we haven't seen it play out like it has here in baltimore. why baltimore? what makes this place different? [ technical difficulties ] joe? all right. w're going and try to figure out this sirius xm cnn thing. joe has unique insight into it. let's take a break to figure it

out. when we come back we're also talking about hillary clinton because she's weighing in on the violence in baltimore as well. back to new york. we're actually going to talk about all the 2016 presidential candidates. we know hillary clinton has made some statements yesterday calling for changes in the tactics of police in regards to the african-american community. take a look at the other hopefuls and some that have declared some that have not and how they stand in their view and what they've made comments on about baltimore coming up. (mom) when our little girl was born we got a subaru. it's where she said her first word. (little girl) no! saw her first day of school. (little girl) bye bye! made a best friend forever. the back seat of my subaru is where she grew up. what? (announcer) the 2015 subaru forester (girl) what? (announcer) built to be there for your family. love. it's what makes a subaru a subaru.

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supporting millions of new jobs. billions in tax revenue... and a new century of american energy security. the new energy superpower? it's red, white and blue. log on to learn more. all right. it's time for cnn money now. chief business correspondent christine romans is in our money center. christine, you are looking at the economic impact of the unrest in baltimore. >> yeah. you guys economists tell us if the protests are contained, they end this week the overall effect will be absorbed by baltimore's pretty big economy. it won't be affected much but the same cannot be said for paycheck-to-paycheck workers. businesses have closed down or closed early because of the curfew. think bars and restaurants.

and several major conferences have been canceled. a couple conventions canceled. a conference of medical workers. that means low wage workers who would have been working around the hospitality industry will not be paid. and that can be devastating for them. yesterday the president stressed how much the recent destruction is hurting the economy. on a radio show this is what he said. he said quote, whoever was working at that cvs right now are wondering if they're going to get a paycheck. the family needed their prescription filled are now wondering how far they have to dry and get a prescription for grandma. there has been disruption yes, but longer term economists don't expect a big hit to the economy because of any of this. >> that's good to hear. >> we certainly hope baltimore can recover as well because that's a place that needs that kind of recovery most desperately. all right, christine. to nepal now where the death toll is expected to surpass 5,500 victims. among the devastation though shocking stories of survival. an 18-year-old pulled from the rubble of a collapsed building. he had been there for five days. >> oh my gosh. >> and listen to this our own

chief medical correspondent dr. sanjay gupta helped revive a young mother who nearly died in nepal this morning. he was along on a chopper ride-along. she was in the chopper where she had been rescued. she was in cardiac arrest and he was able to help shock her heart and regained her pulse. but before that incredible moment happened sanjay filed this report for us. >> reporter: we know the official death toll here in nepal went up by at least one today. neighbors watched from nearby windows, still clinging to hope. after all, this 4-month-old baby was rescued after more than 22 hours under the rubble alive with no apparent injuries. this man was buried for roughly 80 hours. rescue workers administered oxygen and iv drip while they spend ten hours digging him out. there is hope. everywhere you look. and there are reminders of the people who once lived and breathed in this tiny village. just looking around this small

little town outside katmandu you get an idea of the type of people that lived here. the pride that they took in all things around them. this five-story temple built in the 17th century stayed standing when so many of the surrounding buildings tumbled to the ground. last saturday at 11:56 a.m. a woman shouted out from her second story window to alert everyone else to the initial tremor. but then she didn't make it out herself. she died trying to save others. >> they've already been able to identify the person this woman. she's 45 years old. they showed us this id card. she has two boys. they were able to survive. and now we know she has perished in this as well. it is such incredibly incredibly grim work. can you tell me what kind of person she was? how would you describe her?

she was a very good person he told me. she was a mother. and she was my friend. it is clear she won't soon be forgotten. because the reminders are everywhere growing stronger like the flowers among the rubble. dr. sanjay gupta, cnn, katmandu nepal. >> some incredible stories that sanjay's bringing us. >> oh my gosh. >> i want to tell you a bit more about what happened when he was on that chopper ride. he was doing a chopper tour with his producer. they were seeing the devastation from the air. apparently a woman that had been rescued went into cardiac arrest san ya's training kicked in and he started thumping on her chest. her pulse came back as we mentioned. they got her to the hospital in time and her life was saved. remember when he first got there he'd been there only hours when he did that surgery on the young woman. >> that 8-year-old girl who had been injured by the earthquake and sanjay performed brain

surgery on her. along with other doctors. thereby saving her life. it's so funny, michaela we're so used to sanjay being on television. >> he's our friend. >> he's our sanjay he's great on television. you forget he's a practicing working neurosurgeon. >> and that comes first, before the story telling, that is what comes first for him always. >> we'll have more on that story for you tomorrow. meanwhile, the east coast could be getting soggy. let's get to meteorologist chad myers keeping track of the latest forecast for us. what are you seeing chad? >> hey, april showers, michaela. >> okay. >> summer's on its way. my son is ready to get out of school already. got to settle down. a couple more months to go. at least a month to go. scattered rain showers richmond down to charlottesville, even down across parts of atlanta yesterday. but that rain has moved away. it will move out into the ocean for the weekend. and nice beautiful week next week. i mean this really starts to ramp up. look at these temperatures from chicago into indianapolis into st. louis all the way into the 70s. in new york city d.c. 79 and

75. very very pleasant there. atlanta all the way almost up to 80 degrees. and here's what next week looks like. welcome to summer all in one big fell swoop. above average in the east for a change. this did not look like this all winter long. it's about time. michaela this is for you. >> this is for me. >> ladies. >> and i got you nothing. >> it even looks like a heart. he drew sort of a heart on the map. >> i heart you chad myers. >> all right, love you guys. let's get to chris in baltimore on the streets of baltimore telling us what the situation was there last night and today. chris. >> look, the good news alisyn michaela is that the curfew held and it was a relative night of calm in baltimore. that doesn't mean that the situation is over. it means that when there are leaders on the ground it goes better. however, the leaders here, special the electeds they're under scrutiny. no one fits that description more than baltimore mayor stephanie rawlings-blake. does she have any answers at all

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what we have seen in baltimore should indeed i think does tear at our soul. from ferguson to staten island to baltimore the patterns have become unmistakable and undeniable. >> an impassioned hillary clinton there using her first major policy speech of her 2016 campaign to speak out about reform and protest around the country. how is the racial unrest going to factor into the 2016 election? with us patrick healy and nia-malika henderson. why don't we start with hillary, patrick. and we'll get your take on her

speech. did it resonate? it sounds as though it fits into her broader campaign theme of tackling inequality. >> that's exactly right. i mean i think it was a really powerful speech because she was able to bring a lot of the feelings that are going on about what's happening in baltimore, what's happened in ferguson and south carolina into kind of a broader theme that you can't simply lock up men and women, you can't simply you know push through kind of the mass incarceration policies that america's had for the last 20 years. >> policies interestingly came from her husband. >> right, exactly. i think instead of talking about being hard on crime, between talking about putting more police on the streets, this is talk from her about really kind of addressing core issues about wages, about jobs about what's going on in communities where there is violence. not simply just saying well you know the solution is build more prisons and put more people in them. >> right. let's move onto rand paul. and, nia, let's listen to what he had to say.

>> i'm glad the train didn't stop. it's something we talk about not in the immediate aftermath but over time you know the breakdown of the family structure, the lack of fathers, the lack of sort of a moral code in our society. this isn't just a racial thing. >> you know it's interesting, nia, he seems to be a bit in sync actually with hillary clinton on the lack of fathers, the criticism of sentencing december disparities. he's getting a whole lot of heat about that train comment though. >> he is. i talked with advisers about this. and he very much understands at this point that it's probably something he shouldn't have said. he told his advisers that he really meant to say that now wasn't the time to talk about it and go to baltimore and talk about his five-point plan around criminal justice. and as you said he does have some things in common with hillary clinton. hillary clinton in fact name-checked him in her criminal justice speech. and so they want many of the same thing, body cameras, more data collection. so we do have this moment i

think, where there is some sort of bipartisan agreement about what should be done. >> let's move onto jeb bush. patrick, we'll tee him up. seem to be planting a foot in both worlds walking the line. >> there has to be a commitment to the rule of law and law enforcement. at the same time there needs to be balance with the fact that if there is this case it ought to be investigated. >> think he's going to have to take more definitive stand during the gop primary? >> yeah. i think he's sort of walking up to some harder positions. he's been talking about low-cost alternatives to mandatory jail sentences, talking about the sort of supporting law enforcement but treating this as sort of like a case by case basis. feels at this point a little bit loose for jeb bush. but he's been giving a lot of policy speeches. this is an area -- >> like he's still feeling out the temperature of the nation if you will. nia, your turn with ted cruz he seems to be taking more of an

aggressive stance. listen to what he had to say. >> he could have been a unifying figure. he could have chosen to be a leader on race relations and bring us together. and he hasn't done that. he's made decisions that i think have inflamed racial tensions. >> not surprising nia, to see him critical of the president. talk about ted cruz and what your take is on what he had to say, but also is there anything that the president can do and hit the right tone in terms of race in this country? >> he seems not to be able to please his critics or his supporters on this. supporters want him to do more to say more to use the bully pulpit around race relations in the way he's used it around gay rights. his critics are very much like ted cruz. you heard this in 2012 from somebody like marco rubio who also said this was the most di divisive president in american history. i think ted cruz is very much going for a very specific audience conservatives, folks

in iowa folks in south carolina who don't much like the president, don't much like to talk about race and don't much like to talk about police brutality or any of those social justice issues that really are going to be the bread and butter i think, of hillary clinton's campaign. >> all right. the last two we have are two men that have very strong ties to baltimore and to maryland. former maryland governor martin o'malley who is also the baltimore mayor and of course ben carson. patrick, let you start with ben carson. wait press the button. listen to him. >> i've never had an unpleasant encounter. that doesn't mean that there aren't bad apples. of course there are bad apples. there are bad apples in every profession. even in the news media. it doesn't mean you go out and try to take out all the people in that profession. that's silliness. >> interesting because he has the distinction of being the only african-american candidate thus far. do you think he's going to fall into some of those same traps the president fell into? >> i don't think he's that comfortable yet at least talking about being, you know a

reconciliation candidate, being a candidate who is going to think out of the box. i mean talking about sort of bad apples even in the news media feels like he's grasping for things. it would have been really interesting given his history in baltimore, given that he's an african-american man to hear him say something powerful or original. but i feel like you see a lot of people just wanting to sort of beat up on president obama, forget that he inherited a terrible economy. that he was sort of grappling with a lot of different things for six years that somehow he was supposed to be the guy to sort of solve all these problems. >> well a lot of people are looking to him as a resident of baltimore for some 30 years with staff at johns hopkins. >> some really interesting insight. >> exactly. last but not least, martin o'malley interesting, nia, we know he traveled recently to a neighborhood he once oversaw. mixed reaction. in fact some of the people are blaming him for the very policies that baltimore is struggling with. >> there are people saying get

out of here. >> people have been very nice to me. it's actually -- you got to be present in the middle of the pain man. everyone's needed right now in our city. everybody needs to step up. >> does the unrest in this city in this area that he once was such a pivotal part of nia, does it undermine his already untenable nomination or yet to be announced presidential campaign? >> i think they were making the bet here that he could have a moment right? he's been looking for an opening in this campaign. and in a room next to hillary clinton or to the left of hillary clinton. and here he's going to run up against the fact that during his administration a zero tolerance was the policy in terms of how they interacted with folks on the streets there, african-americans, african-american young men, i thought he had a nice line there when he said you have to be present in the pain there. but i think he has brought some scrutiny to his own record there that might be problematic going

forward. >> nia-malik henderson, patrick healy, always great to have you with us here. we are following a lot of news again this morning. so let's get right to it. for the second night a citywide curfew. ♪ we shall overcome ♪ >> we're going to demand justice for freddie gray. >> there's anger spilling across the country. >> we're not out of the woods yet. >> you got to be present in the middle of the pain. >> those were thuggish acts. >> thugs is the 21st century word for the n-word. >> what exactly happened to freddie gray? that remains a mystery. >> he didn't see any harm done to freddie at all. what he has said is that he heard freddie thrashing about. welcome to "new day." we have new information here in baltimore. and there is breaking news where alisyn and michaela are. because in new york we saw

protests against bad policing in cases like the one here in baltimore. there's no question there was tension in the streets overnight to show you, but the news matters more to the investigation. "the washington post" has a police document suggesting freddie gray might have been trying to injure himself in the police van, this according to another prisoner being transported with gray. now, this is going to add more fuel to the fire for answers. people believe they're going to get them tomorrow but we will explain why that is unlikely alisyn. okay chris. and so while we know you've been reporting that it was quiet in baltimore last night, other cities grew ruckus. more than 100 arrests were made in new york city with big demonstrations also in denver washington, d.c. and boston. so our coverage begins with cnn's rosa flores. tell us what we saw in other cities rosa. >> alisyn good morning. emotions are very high with protests erupting across the country. from minneapolis to houston to boston the message is all for

one from these demonstrators. that is police brutality is a national issue. one of the most intense protests happened right here in new york city. check this out. about 100 people were arrested. now, the night started off very peacefully but it escalated with the small scuffle with police. 20 people ended up in zip ties. then they started marching towards times square. police followed in tow telling people not to be off the sidewalk. those who didn't obey the rules ended up in handcuffs. we move onto washington, d.c. where the protests were more friendly than confrontational. there were about 500 strong once they moved to the white house those crowds disbursed. and then more violence in denver colorado. you see people here walking down the streets of downtown. well guess what? about 11 people were arrested here. and there is one common theme here guys and that is that all of these protests usually start in social media. >> when i was talking to them or

was that just -- all right, rosa thank you very much. now, there's no question that while there are protests going on in other cities and they're about the same kind of thing, overnight there was still tension in baltimore. it was all about when the clock struck 10:00. here's what happened. curfew once again the moment of truth in baltimore. you now have about 300 people here who aren't sure whether they want to leave or not. thousands of national guard added to the mix. police assembling equipment and forming the line. we just had armored show up. you have the police here in bigger numbers. color sparking violence but on this night it was about gang colors as crips and bloods went at it. the police never move. the community handles its business stepping up squashing the rogue gang bangers and enforcing the curfew. as we approach 10:00 it's moving

in the right direction. the key, leadership. concerned citizens and all importantly elected leaders on the ground. ♪ we shall overcome ♪ baltimore representative elijah cummings and state senator pugh voices of reason. people responding flanked by media they move from group to group until they're only left with reporters and calm streets. >> we are very very proud of our folks. and we're proud of our city. >> no small irony, night turns out better than day in baltimore as massive crowds swarm city hall and penn station. the majority of protests peaceful. a handful still determined to harm police hurling rocks. >> i have a number of officers that have well they probably have broken hands or other bumps and bruises. >> he's signing fake autographs for fake fans. >> the biggest reminder of disruption in baltimore seen on

the field, not the streets. for the first time in history the baltimore orioles played to an empty camden yards. mlb officials too afraid of possible violence inside their stadium. >> my prayers have been out for all the families all the kids out there. you know they're hurting. >> but what exactly happened to 25-year-old freddie gray? that remains a mystery. according to a newly-released investigative document obtained by "the washington post," a prisoner who rode in the police van with gray who was separated by a metal partition and could not see him, told investigators he believes he was, quote, intentionally trying to injure himself. >> nobody's standing up for the officers any of them. >> cutting against this report a family member of one of the six officers under investigation. they wish to remain unidentified but say gray wasn't manhandled on the road. and the van ride was not rough. >> there were two people in the back. if he was rolling around in the

back then the other person that was back there would have been rolling around in the back also and they weren't. >> a document from someone who was with freddie gray in the van that says to the police according to them he tried to hurt himself, the family member of one of the officers involved saying they thought that he got hurt before he was in the van. so let's examine this. how much weight should it have? whether this prisoner matters, does the family member matter more? cnn justice reporter evan perez is digging down for us. what do you got? >> you know chris, we're talking about six blocks. this is when the second prisoner gets into the van and they are taken to the police station, both prisoners. so during this six-block ride is when this prisoner says he believes he comes to the impression that freddie gray was trying to harm himself. freddie gray is picked up at 8:42. that's when the paddy wagon was requested. 8:46 van driver says he's being irate and put leg irons on him. >> freddie gray is being irate.

>> that is correct. and shortly thereafter they stop again to pick up the second prisoner. it's hard to understand how this second prisoner comes to believe that he's trying to harm himself. we do know that he was thrashing about in the back there. the baltimore police commissioner addressed some of this. here's what he had to say. >> the second prisoner that was picked up is that he didn't see any harm done to freddie at all. what he has said is that he heard freddie thrashing about. the driver didn't drive erratically. >> and -- >> hold on a second evan. how could the second prisoner have seen anything? he's on the other side of a wall. >> he's on the other side of a wall. and he's giving his impression based on not seeing anything. now, what we're beginning to see here chris, is you know as you know the police and the prosecutors have to bring a case based on the idea that they can

prove it beyond a reasonable doubt. and what you're seeing here -- >> they don't have to bring charges on that basis. >> they don't, right. but they have to believe -- >> they can prove a case. >> right. so what we're seeing here along with the interview last night with anderson cooper in which a friend of the -- one of the officers involved here says that the officer believes the injury occurred before he gets into the van. that begins to show a picture here that you know there's going to be different explanations that prosecutors are going to have to sort through. >> right. now, look, one of the reasons that evan perez, he's a pro. one of the reasons he seems so qualified, remember the sourcing on this. one is a family member of one of the cops who says that that cop says. and on the other side it's this prisoner who cops say he said to them even though he was on the other side of the wall and couldn't see, it's speculative. that's why there's so much push for real answers people can clarify. thank you so much for the reporting. we'll keep on all that. and all of this will come down to leadership by the cops and

the electeds here in baltimore. they've told the public they have to have patience in the search for justice, but how long will that hold? we bring in the mayor, the woman at the center stephanie rawlings-blake. she is here. she's been at the center of it. certainly trial by fire. ms. mayor, good to have you with us. good to have you after a night where we can say things were better. but let's break down what will build your future here in this city. this "the washington post" report you know what it says. the person who was on with anderson cooper last night, you've heard about that. did you know these things before they came out in the media? are you getting information as a leader about what's going on? >> so the issue is for me it's not helpful to the freddie gray family it's not helpful to our community who wants to seek justice to engage in speculation that doesn't get us closer to answers. our community wants answers to what happened to freddie gray. and that's important that we protect that process so we're able to get there. >> when you have a situation that you know is a pretty closed -- you're an established attorney. you know all this.

when people say it's all the cops it's a pretty limited fact pattern, you've had a lot of time you got statements from the cops why aren't i hearing anything? it fuels negative suspicion. do you understand that? >> i absolutely understand that. people are in pain. and people want answers. and the family wants justice. and we've been clear from the very beginning that we want to do everything possible to put information out as soon as we can, but in a way that doesn't undermine our ability to seek justice for freddie gray. at the end of the day if we're going to heal as a community, it is because we have done everything that we can to get the answers and to seek justice for freddie gray and for his family. >> what's the main answer to satisfy the confusion about why it has taken as long as it has taken? >> a lot of people don't understand the process. and a lot of people don't care about the process. a lot of people want better for their communities. a lot of what you're seeing when you saw the worst of it it wasn't about the process. it wasn't about justice. it was about the fact that we have people in our community who

were in pain. and my hope is that by focusing on justice and by focusing on that pathway forward we'll have time and space to heal our community. we have work to do to rebuild that trust. work that we've been doing. i've been in the process of reforming my police department. we put in place better training. we've got police discourtesy complaints down excessive force down shootings down. we're holding more officers who act out, we're holding more of those officers accountable. lawsuits against the city are down. with all of that progress we're making you see the pain that still exists. so my goal is to find the space and the place and the pathway not just to justice but to peace and to allow us to heal and to get better as a city. >> but it all starts with the case right? because justice winds up being a process, fairness under law and justice delayed is justice denied. we've all heard those words. they've set up an expectation here about tomorrow. you know that.

the police commissioner contributed to this. you've been part of this dialogue. tomorrow in all fairness, is not the day of clarity in the case of freddie gray, is it? >> tomorrow is an inflection point. that's the deadline the commissioner gave to give over the investigative material to the state's attorney. it is a continuation in a process toward justice. >> the citizens here who want answers will not get them tomorrow fair point? >> so what we've said very clearly is we have a duty to protect the justice process. so freddie gray's family can have the justice that they want. they don't want any information to go out that would undermine their ability to get justice for freddie gray. they've said it loud and clear. and we're going to protect that. >> right. i'm just saying people think tomorrow they may learn -- i mean you know. you're hearing it. we're hearing it on the streets. be calm tonight. friday's our day. we'll get our answers. don't you feel people should know no you're not going to get your answers on friday. and not for bad reason for good reason.

but don't have the expectation that the mayor or the police commissioner is going to step out and say here's what we know here's what's going to happen. >> uh-huh. i'll say this -- we have as we know it's not going to undermine our ability to seek justice for freddie gray. i want to make sure that when this information goes to the state's attorney we continue to do that. that's the only way we're going to be able not just to seek optics -- i mean to seek justice for optics but to have justice for freddie gray. we've been talking in schools, i've been talking to clergy leaders, community leaders, about this process to make sure people have the right expectations about what's going to go on on friday. >> tomorrow is not the day. i'm just saying do you agree with that proposition? don't look to tomorrow for the end. >> well it can't be the end. there's been no charges, there's been no trial. it cannot be the end. >> understood but you know people aren't clear on that. i just want to make it clear for them. >> absolutely. yeah. >> what they'll say is you know what if i did this you know people in your community are saying they would have arrested

me already. maybe they'd charge me maybe they wouldn't. why weren't these officers arrested? you got a guy who dies in their custody with a crushed larynx and a broken spine, he did that to himself in a van? maybe, maybe not, but certainly would be probable cause that a crime would be committed as a citizen as the defendant. why not here? >> so what you're talking about is the deeper issues and the pain that i know exists in our community. >> no i'm talking specific to the facts of this case. >> yeah. specifically to this case -- >> not to pad your pedigree but you are a practicing attorney. you know if it were a regular person a citizen, and you had someone with a crushed larynx and a broken spine and it was just about your client and that victim tharks would very likely be probable cause for some type of arrested charges. >> but you're speculating. quite likely but it could be the same situation. and at the end of the day it's about this case and making sure we're getting this case right. it has nothing to do with speculation about any other cases out there. this family wants justice. they don't want us to sit here

and speculate about what could have happened if it was a private citizen that did it. >> when the officers are home getting paid and freddie gray's dead and it seems like there's a connection between what happened. nobody wants to paint the police in a bad light. that does not help the future of your community. but the suspicion is what matters. you understand what i'm saying? >> i absolutely understand. and that's why i've worked so hard to reform our department. i've worked to get the justice department in here to do a collaborative reform process because i know we have issues with our police department. i know there are issues of mistrust. and i want to do everything in my power to bring the resources to my city so we can fix it. and we're going to do that. the issues that you're talking about and the mistrust and the expectations that's bigger than this one case. and we have to get it right. so while we seek justice for freddie gray i'm going to continue to push for progress. i'm going to continue to work with communities so we can do the healing that they say that they want and the police say that they want. >> you get a big amen from the community on that. and one of the things that has brought it out is this word thug. when you're in the communities

with the civic leaders there, they say this is one of the ugliest problems we're dealing with right now. this idea that you're going to dismiss everybody who broke a window and looted and rioted as all the same person just is a lie about the reality here. that there are just as many people who saw this as an act of desperation. and people on the outside can say, oh you're just excusing thugs behavior. but do you know better mayor? is there a better explanation? you got caught up in the use of the thug word also. do you believe everyone in that community who was breaking a window or acting in anger or making bad choices they're just criminals looking for opportunities? or there's another kind of person there acting out as well? >> what is clear is that name calling and blaming doesn't bring healing to our communities. i was angry when i saw what people were doing to the community that i love. i know that that's a community that's been fighting back from the riots from the '60s. and to see it being destroyed was painful. i used a word that i regret. i've apologized.

and you know why? not just because i used it because it took the eye off of the real problems in our community. calling them thugs or criminals or even worse doesn't bring the resources that they need. it doesn't bring healing to the community. >> it doesn't validate the reality. >> absolutely. >> politics that's part of the game. i think the more important part may be the suggestion of and the reason thug doesn't matter is because you may not live here but you know this community. and they deal with things every day that most people in the country don't have to in baltimore. one in every three of them is living under the poverty line. they can't get jobs. there is an education process. we watched a kid last night rapping that they want education, not incarceration. he doesn't want to go to jail. the kid was like 8. and he was rapping this on the street. doesn't that matter as much to give voice to that no matter what the rest of the country wants to see this as? >> absolutely. that's why i've spent so much time over the past few days every chance i get talking to our young people about how they're feeling. what does this make you feel when you see your city portrayed

like this? they know very clearly that this -- the acting out that we saw, wasn't just about freddie gray. it's about pain in the community. but it's also about people who don't respect where they live. and those young people are mad about it. so this -- out of these dark days and our city there's a healing that's poblg. and there's a pathway to a better baltimore. we're a resilient city. and we're a city that's not -- we refuse to be down. don't count us out. >> two other things. what is your take on this moment that became metaphor of the mom eyeballing her kid as you know a potential kid going out there to act out their anger and her slapping him around keeping him in line? what does that mean to you? >> you know i think we can all debate her methods. what i can say is she loves her child enough to intervene when it was necessary. and i applaud that. we need more parents that are willing to step up and to take

control over their kids to listen to their kids. and when they see their kids in trouble, to immediately act. that's what it's going to take in order for us to have the healing that we need and the space for these kids to find their pathway. when you as a parent know that your kids are doing this and putting themselves at risk of death, of incarceration, that is your acceptance that they're not going to reach their potential. that mother she's like not on my watch. you're going to make it. you're going to get your education. you're going to do the right things because you know better. and there are so many parents that need to say that same message. >> again, you know she winds up being a demonstration of how two people see the situation differently. some saying well you got six kids you're all alone, that's part of the problem. people don't necessarily understand conditions and life and what people have to deal with in order to get their kids where they want to be. that's where leadership comes in feeds into what is being done on the ground to help the

situation. i know hindsight's 20/20, but it also gives you a way of how you can do it next time and there are always going to be problems. do you think there's more with senator on the ground last night, to have a leader there, not a voice over a bull horn. you got 87% of the vote but you haven't been at the ugly situations at night. do you think you should be? >> this is the deal. every person in our community, even the gang members in our community that are coming out, everybody that has their role and their place to bring peace in our community. i know that my presence can be a calming presence and can be a flash point. i'm not going to risk inserting myself you know it might look good to some people but i'm not going to insert myself in a situation that we know is potentially hostile and very fragile when i have leaders like elijah cummings and senator pugh who are willing to stand in and do that work that needs to be done. there are a lot of moving pieces. there's a lot of work that needs

to be done operationally. and i'm doing that role. and i'm grateful that we have leaders that are willing to step up and to insert themselves where there is community leaders, faith leaders, other elected officials, to help. i can't be eight different places at one time. i can't be at the watch center making sure that we have all the resources we need and on a bull horn at the same time. i'm not going to be able to do that. but what i can do is lean on the leadership and courage of other leaders in our city that help and want to do their part to get us better. >> it all comes down to who's at the top, and that's you in this city. one quick question. the curfew. >> uh-huh. >> do you see it going a full week? are you thinking -- we heard you're thinking about reducing how long you'll have a curfew. >> apparently there's a mind reader someone has. no. i have made no decision about lifting the curfew. we re-evaluate on a daily basis. >> because you get that message that send to the community too, right? they can't be trusted to live their own lives. >> that's not -- well that

shouldn't send that message. what it's saying is we want peace in our community. and we're going to do everything that we can to ensure that we have peace moving forward. we've done -- we've had curfews before in baltimore. we have a youth curfew year round. we're going to make sure that we keep our young people safe. i don't want to lose another life out on the baltimore streets because of the violence that has been erupting in our city. >> understood. >> and we're going to make sure we do everything that we can to keep everyone safe. >> you know what they're saying it's not the curfew it will be justice that will bring peace. miss mayor, you have a lot of work to do. thank you for joining us here on "new day." appreciate it. >> thank you. >> we've been discussing with the mayor what's going on here right now. the next big step will be tomorrow because that's when the police will hand over a preliminary report to the prosecutors. what do the family expect tomorrow? what do they think they're going to learn? and we're going to have the reaction of the speculation that maybe freddie gray hurt himself in that van. we're going to talk with an attorney for gray's family coming up.

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"new day," the headline here. "the washington post" has a document that supposedly gives the account of a prisoner being transported with freddie gray in the same van. and he says supposedly according to investigators that he thinks gray was trying to injure himself. tomorrow's a big day here. maybe seen as too bigby the by the way. police will give preliminary findings to prosecutors. does that mean we get answer sns let's turn to mary cook. she's part of the legal team

representing freddie gray's family. >> good morning. >> pleasure. >> good to see you. >> you just heard the mayor. what was your takeaway from what the mayor had to say about the current investigation, the expectations and how it's being handled. >> let me talk a little bit about the fact that we represent the gray family. and on our team at our firm we have you know billy murphy who not only is a defense attorney but he also was a judge. i come from a background of being a prosecutor doing defense work. we have other people who have spent their career -- >> you get the system. >> we understand it. we told the family from the beginning answers were not going to come quickly. and that answers needed to be -- the investigation needed to be full and complete so that whatever happens subsequently and hopefully what will happen is the correct people are charged, those charges are prosecuted and then that prosecution sticks. >> two questions. why does everybody think tomorrow's a big day? >> because that's what the government told them. that's what the police commissioner told them in the beginning. and the mayor did not disavow people of the fact that may 1st was sort of a drop dead date. i think missing from the

conversation and may have been inadvertent, there are many things going on, but missing from the conversation was this is a process. so the police department has the ability to chart to make an arrest to charge someone. but in a situation like this they're always going to go to the state's attorneys office. >> is that the right way to do it? >> it's the way it's always done. >> that doesn't mean whether it's right or wrong. >> it is -- i think it is probably the right way to do it only because -- >> why? if you were a prosecutor and i did this to freddie gray you would have had me arrested and said we have probable cause a crime was committed. there are charges there, let's see if they stick. that's what happens with a citizen, not a cop? >> i don't agree with that. i don't agree it should happen when it's police officers it should happen when it's anyone. i have to say the mayor was right works differently depending on the circumstances. in this case no one was arrested on the scene. oftentimes we'll see if there's sort of an immediate reaction the officers know immediately who the suspect is they will arrest that individual. and that individual will go

through that process of arrests. they will sometimes have a preliminary hearing. they will sometimes be charged first by the state's attorneys office via grand jury. that's different. sometimes, she was correct when she said this sometimes in the course of the process there's an investigation to be done determining who should be charged, what charges should be brought and done via grand jury. arrest warrants can be -- after the grand jury indicts you can get warrants. the officers can then be arrested. the fact it's going to the prosecutors office and then going to a grand jury doesn't mean anyone will be arrested. just a longer process before the arrests occur. >> interesting dynamic. you're not here to defend the process, you're representing the family who wants answers more than anybody else. >> i am. >> the suspicion that police should not investigate themselves. yes, you have the state police doing their thing, the attorney's office is doing her thing, the police are doing their thing. should there be an independent body like what you have in wisconsin where every time

there's police excessive force as an allegation there's an outside entity independent that reviews it. so you can't question the timing. you don't question whether there's conflict. >> i think that's probably a really good idea. i think when the police department is confronted with what they were confronted when freddie was unresponsive in the van, they knew there was a problem. they knew there was a potential criminal -- there may be a potential criminal investigation. i think going to the outside to bring someone in prosecutors do it all the time if there's any kind of conflict any kind of relationship when i was in the office we would bring someone from the outside who would come in and prosecute that case. >> is the family happy with what the mayor's doing and how they're communicating with her and how the city is being controlled during this time? >> you know the family is -- the family doesn't comment on the process. what the family wants to see is a full and thorough investigation. look right now what we've had are bits and pieces of information. we don't receive any more information than you receive.

and so there's no special information that the family's been given or that we've been given as the family's attorneys. so it's really difficult to sort of track the investigation because all we have now are pieces of information that we can't put together. the family wants the violence to stop. that's for sure. there's no question about that. >> we know that's a much bigger dynamic than what happened to freddie gray. here's one of the big questions of the day, and i know you want to address it. >> okay. >> is it true that freddie gray did have a spine injury but it was the result of a pre-existing injury and that he may have settled a case about that injury involving his spine and that he may have had surgery on his spine before so that he was vulnerable and it wasn't about what the police did? is that a big revelation that's being kept from people? >> okay i'm going to answer that in two parts. the first answer is, i have no information that our client or freddie gray had any kind of spinal injury. i have no information on that regard. and i haven't seen anything in that regard. second thing is let's just assume as a hypothetical even if that were true that would not

excuse the actions of the officers. so let's make that clear. one sort of has nothing to do with the other. it's a distraction. it's another one of those rumors and pieces of innuendo thrown out there. it distracts from the actions of the officers and the issues of whether or not charges should be brought. doesn't in any way, shape or form if it were true and i'm not saying that it is because i have no information that it is. >> interestingly those who want to forward the information those ignoring it's about the spine it's about a crushed voicebox and what would that have had to do with it? >> would ignore the fact freddie was running down the street before the police officers ever put their hands on him and came out responsive. that's why i have to say i can't put much credence in that. >> thank you very much for helping us understand the system. and where the family is and answering the speculation. appreciate it. >> thank you. have a good day. >> alisyn back to you in new york. okay chris. we're going to be talking a lot about a word thugs. that's how violent protesters in baltimore have been described. but is that word too offensive

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it's amazing you don't call six police officers who kill a man without probable cause thugs, but children who are frustrated and don't have an outlet you call them thugs? thugs is the 21st century word for the n-word. and it is repulsive. >> well that was reverend jamal bryant criticizing the use of a word we've heard a lot this week thug. even president obama and baltimore's mayor have called the rioters thugs. so what makes that such a charged word? and is it the new n-word? joining us to debate this is retired nypd detective harry houck and host of huff host live marc la mont hill. gentlemen, thanks so much for joining us. marc i want to start by putding the meriam webster definition of thug on the screen. it's from the hindi word literally means thief. dates back to 1810. the definition is a brutal

roughiarough rough -- ruffian. why is this such a loaded word now? >> words come from text and words are comprised of text. but then you have context. and it's not just what the word means in the dictionary which i agree is very instructive but how it gets taken up. takes on new meaning by say 1837 and becomes a word used by british kolcolonist. right now in 2015 thug is almost exclusively used for black people who make white people uncomfortable in certain kinds of spaces. we saw it with richard sherman last year. we see it with these people in baltimore right now. all of whom are black. >> well hold on, marc. let me challenge you for one second because president obama uses it fairly liberally. he's used it to describe ukrainian rebels describe isis describe al qaeda, he used it

this week to describe people throwing rocks at police officers. he has sort of a wider indiscriminate use of that term. it's not always dark people. >> with the exception of ukrainians all of those people are dark and all of them are still considered ethnic others even ukrainian rebels. i think that actually supports my point. i'm not excusing president obama. i think president obama's wrong too. but i think the idea that we only use it for people in the united states -- we use it for the white rioters after the kentucky game. we didn't use it for the police officers who hurt him. we didn't use it for the guy in south carolina who shot someone running away. we rarely use the term thug for white people. that's the problem. >> harry -- >> go ahead. >> i want to bring harry in because i want to make sure he gets a chance to be part of the conversation too, marc. i can hear your passion. what about this notion marc is speaking about, harry? you have used the term and you're comfortable using it. >> no problem. >> but what about the idea that this is a label and labels only further marginalize people that are having trouble.

>> listen, alisyn read the definition of thug. >> yeah. >> thug's a bad guy. simple as that. got nothing to do with your color. let me tell you something. this is political correctness going amuck. >> is it? >> what's next? word criminal we can't use the word criminal now? >> isn't there room for nuance harry? >> you've got gangster rappers use the word all the time. >> do you know why? reclaiming it. >> no they're taking the word for themselves. >> wait a minute. >> listen if you automatically think when somebody says thug all right, that it means a black person. you need to look in the mirror and say, hey, am i a racist? i'll tell you, yeah because i've called white people thugs, i've asked people what do you think when they think thug and they think bad guy. this is just the left trying to take that word away all right, so nobody can use it. >> what about even just using a label instead of looking at the root cause. this is what i want to ask both of you and challenge both of you on. if instead we're arguing about a

label, are we not looking at the root of the problem? does it not distract from what's going on in baltimore if we're just having this battle about a word? >> exactly. that's exactly what's going on. >> i think it is the problem. i think it is the problem though alisyn. part of what i've been saying and what many people have been saying is we are criminalizing young people. and this is part of the problem that happens in baltimore in urban spaces all around america is that we see 16-year-old and 17-year-old youth. we don't see those people who make bad choices, we don't see them as people who need training or investment. we see them as young criminals who need to be arrested early. the language itself is reflective of the practice. >> let's talk about the language. for people setting cars on fire and injuring police officers by hurling bricks at them what do you want to call them marc? >> well it depends on the context but in this particular context if you guys are calling them rioters, i say, okay, this is an uprising. i understand why you would call this a riot. some of them are engaged in criminal activity i understand that. but the label thugs themselves is to undermine and dismiss -- >> marc you don't want to call

them criminals. you won't even call them criminals. i mean they're thugs, criminals, use whatever word you want. what they're trying to do is some of the politicians in baltimore are trying to deflect away from the criminal activity from the thugery that's going on down there and make excuses for the young people out there destroying the city. >> go ahead, marc. >> the mayor of baltimore wasn't making excuses. the mayor of baltimore used the word thug and later apologized. >> that's because she's listening to her friend who doesn't like the word. that's basically why. >> just let me finish though. just let me finish the thought. you're acting like a thug right now, harry. what i'm saying is that she wanted to challenge these young people to say, look what you're doing is wrong. but i don't want to create a context where we begin to see these young people purely through the lens of criminality because it stops us from doing the thing that we want to do which is change things fix things invest in them. that's the problem for me. it's not critiquing bad behavior. it's the way we critique bad behavior. >> let's look at the problem.

let's look at why things are the way they are in baltimore. >> sure. >> you know why are we even talking about thug is insanity to me. and we shouldn't be talking about it. how are we going to clear up the problem? this is deflection away from the real problems that are going on. >> but language matders though harry. >> definition of a word just because you don't like it or because you're politically correct -- >> gentlemen, we have to leave it here. we could probably go for another hour on this very topic. but we don't want to distract from the true story. harry, marc we appreciate you bringing your passion today. >> thanks. we do want to know what you think about all of this. tweet us using #newdaycnn. we'd love to hear your thought on all this language. meanwhile back to the questions of surrounding the death of freddie gray. did he have a pre-existing medical condition? a reporter who has done a whole lot of digging will join chris next. (mom) when our little girl was born we got a subaru. it's where she said her first word.

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[doorbell rings] what's this? swiffer sweeper. i came in under the assumption that it was clean. i've been living in a fool's paradise. all right. you want the big questions from baltimore? here they are. did freddie gray hurt himself in that van? "the washington post" says someone in the van with him

believes it was true. is that worth you believing? okay. is tomorrow the big day when the police turn over their findings? are you going to hear whether or not there are charge sns and is all of this just an excuse for pre-existing injury that freddie gray had and that's why his back broke? those are the big questions. we have someone who's digging for answers every day, marc puente investigative reporter for "baltimore sun." let's check these boxes one by one. start with the first one in time. freddie gray pre-existing condition, hurt his spine, had a lawsuit, had a settlement from a car accident or maybe it was lead poisoning. what have you figured out? >> court records show there was a settlement filed paperwork for settlement in howard county we went and got the records. records say it was related to a lead paint lawsuit from years ago. his sister has a similar case one case number off. some websites put it out there that it was a settlement related to a car accident. that's not true. there's another district court case where freddie gray is listed in a tort injury case.

the lawyer for the gray family says it was freddie gray sr., the father. i tracked downed 74-year-old lady listed as a plaintiff in that case. she says it's the father. we're debunking the claims. >> one hanging question freddie gray yes or no checked the box in one of those legal documents, one of those pleadings that said car accident work related or something -- what did that mean? >> he did. he checked auto accidents, there's three boxes he checked. but he also wrote something underneath where you can't make it out but his sister's document she checked other and she wrote lead. but he also acknowledged that the injuries occurred when he was a minor. he listed the minor, the sister's form says the exact same thing. related to the lead paint case. >> conspiracy theory not relevant to this investigation in terms of what happened to his back. done. next one. the idea from "the washington post" guy in the van with him says he hurt himself. that's what i think. how much weight do you put on it?

>> i can't speak to what peter herman reported. he's a fine reporter. i respect his work. i didn't get that report so let peter herman speak for that? >> what questions does it raise? >> i can't speak to that story. >> and whatever thrashing was done it's not just the spine but also the voicebox. so you have a crushed voicebox need an answer for that also. then a big one here that goes to the dynamic of this investigation and how the leadership is working. tomorrow's the big day, purks u-- puente it's a big day because, dot, dot, dot. so many have the expectation of tomorrow. >> the expectation was set by the police commissioner when he said he turns his findings over to the state's attorney on may 1st. people at that point started thinking we'll find out how freddie gray driedy died. they've kind of backed off and said it's not going to be public. even the family attorney doesn't want the findings known. they want a thorough

investigation. he's trying to tamp down expectations throughout the city so people don't have an outburst or think they're being misled. >> this is your city you work these investigations. is this going as they normally would? is this too long? is this reasonable? >> i've been here a year and digging in investigative stuff related to police cases. compared to what the baltimore sun did in previous cases, this is moving rather fast. the national media's here international media's here. that's helping drive some of this. faster than other cases. >> people following this looking at micro and macro, freddie gray specifically what are your three biggest questions right now? >> as the mayor said, probable cause, misconduct by officers or no misconduct. >> you're digging in on it and we're relying on it. alisyn back to you. >> okay chris. so this

the orioles and the white house marking

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this morning's bleacher report. >> he is in vegas and we will talk about, too. >> it had to be weird for the white sox and orioles, and this is the first time in major league history a game was played without anybody in the fans, and the players had fun with it signing fake autographs and the orioles scored six runs in the first inning and three coming off a home run by khris davis. and some fans watched this from outside the gates, and they were happy, and the players talked about how it felt playing in the empty ballpark. >> no noise. no sound. it was just quiet. >> it was weird. different. >> coming up the runway and walking out, it was like batting

practice. when we hit here, nobody is here yet, and you realize you are minutes away from a baseball game. >> and manny pacquiao and it's going to happen at the mgm. and both fighters said they are confident and the best shape they have been in in a very long time. and the fight is going to live up to the hype come saturday night. i talked to one gentleman that paid $74,000 for two front row tickets to the fight, and the ticket prices are through the roof, and they are hoping it's a once in a lifetime event. we have george foreman coming up to talk about that fight. i say one and only but there are five of them.

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protests across the nation. >> emotions are high across the country. >> curfew once again, the moment of truth in baltimore. new questions this morning about what happened to freddy gray inside that police van. >> there were two people in the back. >> this prisoner seems to be saying he was intentionally trying to hurt himself.

>> how can you thrash around having a severed spine at the neck. you are watching "new day," and it's thursday april 30th 8:00 in the east. in new york there is a lot of news there. frustration building over the death of freddy gray here in baltimore and around the country. the curfew worked and helped to keep order here and now a headliner about what might have happened in the back of the van. >> protesters are breaking out nationwide ferguson missouri minneapolis, and new york and more than 100 people were arrested last night in the/ the/clashes with the police. >> the tensions between police

and communities erupting and exploding, and these are some of the cities that have seen or will see protests. the common message is simple. police brutality is an issue across the nation. some of the most intense protests right here in new york city and take a look at this video, about 100 people were arrested. now, the night started off very peacefully and it escalated with a small scuffle with police, and protesters started marching. police asking everybody to stay on the sidewalk, and those who did not ended up on handcuffs. we move on to washington, d.c. where the situation and atmosphere was a lot more friendly and it was marchers marching down the street and singing and chanting. the group was about 500 strong. it dispersed once they got to the white house. more violence this time in denver. you see folks marching downtown down the streets, about 11 people were arrested.

there's a few commonalities here. most of these protests started on social media and ended by thousands hitting the streets. chris? >> the irony, you have it heated up all over the country, and here in baltimore, we saw a better night on the streets. for a second straight time the mandatory curfew worked. here is what it was like last night. curfew once again, the moment of truth in baltimore. you now have about 300 people here who are not sure whether they want to leave or not. police assembling equipment and forming the line. we just had armour show up and the police are here in bigger numbers. color sparking violence but on this night it was about gang colors as crips and bloods went at it.

the police never move. the community handles it's business and stepping up and squashing the rogue gang bangers. the key is leadership. concerned citizens and all importantly, elected leaders on the ground. baltimore representatives, elijah cummings a voice of reason and people responding and flanked by media they move from group to group until they are only left with reporters and calm streets. >> we are very very proud of our folks and we're proud of our city. >> no small irony. night turns out better than day in baltimore as massive crowds swarm city hall and penn station. the majority of protests peaceful, a handful still

determined to harm police by throwing rocks. >> signing fake autographs for fake fans. >> the biggest disruption in baltimore seen on the field and not the streets, and for the first time the orioles played to an empty camden yards, and the officials too afraid of possible violence outside the stadium. >> my prayers are for the families and kids out there, and they are hurting. >> but what happened to freddy gray? that remains a mystery. according to the newly obtained document a prisoner who road in the van with gray and who could not see him, he told investigators, he believes he was intentionally trying to harm himself. >> one of the six officers under investigation, they wish to remain unidentified but they

say gray was not manhandled on the road and the van ride was not rough. >> if he was rolling around in the back the other person back there would have been rolling around in the back also, and they weren't. >> we have two sources of information about what might have happened before and after freddy gray got in the van. let's see what they can mean to us. we have evan perez a senior justice correspondent. what could this mean? i know the sourcing what said what to whom what could it mean? >> the prosecutor is going to have to sort through the more confusing picture of what the police are telling them happened and the police say that whatever happened happened in the van. you hear that person who is close apparently to the police officer driving the van, he told

anderson cooper last night, whatever happened it happened before freddy gray got in the van, and we know a wagon was requested to take a van, and a van driver is saying gray is being i rate and it's after that this prisoner gets into the van and they drive six blocks before they go to jail. now, the police commissioner has addressed some of this before. here is what some of what he says happened there. >> the second prisoner that was picked up is he didn't see any harm to freddy at all, and he heard freddy flashing about and the driver did not drive erratically. >> that makes -- you ask even more questions, and at the end of the washington post report it does raise the question as to how this does this second prisoner know he is trying to

harm himself, and all he can hear is banging on the metal wall the partition that separates him from freddy gray. >> we know he was doing enough for them to put shackles on him, and then people say, before he was dragged in he looks obviously hurt and the baltimore sun says there is no reason to believe he had previous surgery, and he had the crushed larynx and not just the spinal injury. >> and many people have told me it's not a clear-cut case against these officers and that's something the people on the streets don't want to hear. >> they think they are going to hear about that tomorrow. what does this mean?

joining us now, councilman nick mosley and now we are going to put a huge strain on your marriage by saying what has your wife told you? the important thing, people have an expectation that tomorrow is the day, and forget about who you are married to and you are an elected official and you know the process, and are people being set up for false expectations for tomorrow. >> i think we develop a communication strategy to let people know what is going to take place. and i think the police commissioner tried to do that yesterday, and as public sir srupts we need to educate them on the process. >> the mayor and the commissioner set the date tomorrow, and the mayeror echoed it. >> what we need to do is try to develop a plan to proactively

communicate. i have been meeting with my community members and we are trying to get one unified message out, and the police department is going to say they are going to hand the contents of their investigation over to the state's attorney and not necessarily to a reporter. >> you were dressed differently when you were on the show before because you spent a lot of time on the grounds, and you have not had enough big shots, the mayor, the governor on the ground at the hot spots to control the situation. and last night, you saw senator cummings -- >> i was out there with him. >> would this have been different if the mayor and -- >> the mayor is your party. >> yeah it's critically for for me to be out there, and that's why i am out there. i think we bring another sense of calm when you are letting

folks know your elected folks care about this and it's really us versus the criminal system and they see it like they are occupying our neighborhood and they pressure represents like congressman cummings. >> is thug is that code for saving savage primitive angry brown people that will hurt themselves -- >> at the end of the day when you commit a crime, you are a criminal no matter who you are. >> is everybody that breaks a window the same? >> yes. >> they are the same? >> yep. >> the guy that wants to be bad is the guy who says i can't take think anymore and says if they are not going to embrace me -- >> destructive of private

property is always wrong, and seniors in my community, i have a paraplegic woman, her house got set on fire and they are out of the house and in a hotel somewhere, and no matter what the reason is destruction of property that is not yours, that's a crime. >> do you have to take a step back and look at the actions and see if it's the same thing? >> again, it doesn't make it excusable and folks should be punished however we need to become a better america by really trying to challenge this complex equation in urban america. >> freddy gray matters, but what is driving this behavior that we see in the city? it's not really about freddy gray is it? >> this is much more than freddy gray. and the young guys out here

showing their frustration and venting and being angry and doing it in an unproductive way, they are carrying their father's and grandfather's burden. >> you are a democrat right? >> yes. >> and is this on you guys the democratic rule here and is this an idea that you haven't gotten it done as a party or structure here and is that the focus on the blame? >> leadership is not based off of party lines, and at the end of the day, have there been failed policies? yes. all of these things directly play into recidivism and it's all about leadership and not about parties. >> since you have grown up is it different today than it was? is it better? >> no not in certain communities, no.

certain communities have been stagnant. >> o'malley saying i am going to run on the back of how i changed baltimore, and you are saying that's not impressive? >> i am not saying there is nothing impressive about o'malley and we are talking about baltimore. >> one in every three is in poverty in that area. >> if you look at things from the '80s and the '90s, things have gotten better. one murder is too many. so do we look better? yes. however, there is so much work to do. >> when you say that last statement, this doesn't end in terms of freddy gray in terms of addressing problems that will make a difference here and is your concern this outcome will overshadow what needs to be done and if none of the officers get punished that is

not going to change the situation. >> i am so excited about this movement and we are seeing young folks who having felt voiceless and completely disconnected from the political process who are now activated and motivated and out here marching peacefully, and if we can galvanize that energy to have folks be part of the problem, that's how we are going to change the issues that plagued this place for so long. >> we can't focus on the what but let's dig into the why. and all the attention baltimore got on monday exposed urban america from the east coast to the west coast. >> councilman thank you for joining us. let's take a look at some of the other headlines and we will get back to the top story in a moment. the number of victims in the nepal earthquake is expected to surpass 5,500, and the u.s.

pledged to help the 8 million people that need help. an 18-year-old pulled from the debris after being trapped for five days. ron, nuclear negotiations happening at the u.n.,ing and another meeting scheduled on monday in europe to finalize all of the elements and iran's foreign minister says he intends to meet the deadline and he also says no deadline is sacred. and then the vermont senator jumping into the 2016 presidential race. he will outline his plan for winning the democratic nomination this afternoon, and caucuses with democrats in the senate and he describes himself, though since we are talking about labels today he is describing himself as a democratic socialists. two baltimore neighborhoods six miles apart, but the life

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inner cities are being left behind. >> that was the former mayor of new orleans attributing the conflict in baltimore to staggering inner city

unemployment. let's see if a democrat from minnesota agrees and he has been tweeting up a storm about what is going on in baltimore. good morning. >> thank you for having me. >> staggering unemployment or excessive police force or what? how do you explain what is going on in baltimore? >> staggering unemployment and excessive police force go together. it leaves the less fortunate, and the way we keep the less fortunate in control is through policing and prisons. that's the unfortunate formula we constructed. freddy gray's neighborhood 50% unemployment and michael brown's neighborhood outside of st. louis, they had the doubling of unemployment in the last ten years, and they are 12%, and the

city i was born in detroit, michigan back in the 1960s when we had the koerner michigan report studying the same thing, and the unemployment was high where the disturbances happened. you have to make an investment and our society has to teadecide are we going to pay the police and prisons to keep the poor out of control. >> let's talk about freddy gray's neighborhood and i want to challenge you on the 50% unemployment number that you just used. this is from the baltimore neighborhood indicators alliance and they looked at every neighborhood in and around baltimore, and really there are staggering numbers here. the children living below the poverty line in gray's neighborhood almost 50%. 77% only high school completion

and in other words, 3% drop out, and the unemployment they sight is 22.7% because those are people actively looking for a job, but to your point 50% of the neighborhood is not working. when you look at those numbers, where do you begin? what is the answer? >> the answer is i think, simple. it's starts with investing in the infrastructure and the educational opportunity for the people there, and raising minimum wage and making sure people can go to the doctor. there is a big fight all across the country over minimum wage and in the mcdonald's, the ceo makes $9,000 an hour. and freddy gray led in a house with excessive lead paint and he

ingested that like thousands of kids in baltimore and kids all over the united states suffer from and the paint is can we say i have to have a tax cut and i don't want to pay the estate tax, and isn't that ashame of what happened in baltimore? we are connected here and we are all americans. we have got to say, look you can make good money, but do you have to make so much that whole neighborhoods have nothing, and not even any hope? that's the problem that we are facing right here. >> i want to ask you about the report out in the washington post report, and they cite a fellow prisoner who was in the same van as freddy gray who says it was his impression that freddy gray was thrashing around so much intentionally trying to injure himself. >> 16 years of doing criminal work if you are charged with a

crime in custody and officers come to you and say, hey, somebody is saying we beat up on freddy did you see anything like that? oh no sir. come on it's pretty transparent. i wouldn't put any creedens -- >> you think he is trying to get favor with police officers to get his own deal? >> i think he is trying to survive. i think he doesn't want to be like freddy gray. >> you have been tweeting a lot and some talking about the worth of buildings, and the infrastructure infrastructure and do you think we are not talking about freddy gray enough? >> there are people in his neighborhood that want to work that have tal kwrepbts and want to make a life for themselves and their children and i would urge the media to try and human humanize the people that live in that neighborhood so folks can

have compassion for hard working people that live in impoverished neighborhood. we have a guy that works for the united states senate cooking, and he is homeless. there's a guy that walked back to work ten miles every day, and that's the sad reality, and people are not thugged and they are not bad, and we need to hear the real stories of the people that labor so hard to make it every single day. like the frustrated mom trying to save her son and lost it out there on the street. i had compassion for her because as a father of four the best thing in my life is my kids and what wouldn't i do to save them. there are parents all over baltimore and detroit and indianapolis and l.a. and the rest of us need to care about him. >> she said she was worried

about him and didn't want him to end up as another freddy gray. >> thank you for being on "new day." ahead here old wounds torn wide open by the death of freddy gray. we are going to speak with two mothers that lost their sons in deadly shootings. what it's like for them to see the events in baltimore unfold the mothers of trayvon martin and sean bell, next. e taxes. we enacted the lowest corporate tax rate since 1968. we eliminated the income tax on manufacturers altogether. with startup-ny, qualified businesses that start, expand or relocate to new york state pay no taxes for 10 years. all to grow our economy and create jobs. see how new york can give your business the opportunity to grow at ny.gov/business

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good to have you back here with us on "new day." freddy gray's family still waiting for answers about how he died while in police custody. we are joined now by two mothers that know what gray's mother is going through, and valerie bell's son was shot to death by police at a bachelor party in 2006, and trayvon martin was killed in his neighborhood in 2012. a terrible club you are in. sabrina, i want to ask you, when this happened weeks ago, what

was your initial thought? how did you react? >> my initial thought was certainly that this country is in a crisis and now baltimore, it seems to be going on in every part of the united states. it's like people just aren't listening to change the laws and try to make a difference to try and do something about this tragedy that continues to happen. >> valerie, you said every time this happens, and it has happened several times since your son died and it re-opens that wound for you. help us understand how a family can cope through this kind of thing? >> it's hard to cope in the beginning because it's like, dejavu dejavu and it's unbelievable something like this is happening to your child and you think you are the first ones to go before them, and it's unbelievable. it's constantly happening on and on and on in every state.

we just need to come together and it's hard, because people need to listen to us. >> and being heard is such a difficult part of it too. >> yes. >> and then the waiting game which you know all too well sabrina, and we are waiting for the investigation and the process and find out if the person that caused the death of your son is going to be held accountable, and that wait something agonizing. what would you say to freddy gray's family who are right now waiting for answers? >> i would tell them to try to be patient and don't listen to everything that they hear. >> did you avoid the news? >> i tried to but i wanted to know what was going on. i wasn't getting any information because the only thing that law enforcement would say at the time is that they had an open investigation, so you know it's just heartbreaking to know that you have a child that has been you know practically murdered and nothing is being done and you don't know anything and you don't know what happened and

that's the big deal. my heart just goes out to the family and my heart goes out to the mother and the father and the brothers and the sisters, and just everybody that surrounds who freddy gray was, and it's just an awful, you know and it feels like you are in a nightmare, and you will never wake up. your heart just breaks. every time these tragedies happen we know that they are going through it the same way we went through it and it's just a difficult moment in your life. >> i wonder too, on top of it all, you are having to do this publicly. your family name and your baby's pictures are up on the wall and on the tv screens, and on top of it we see the reaction of the public and violence and looting and unrest and what does that make you feel when you see that happen? >> it hurts to see that. you are hurting this way and going away about it in a wrong

way, and people are just tired. >> you can relate to that? >> yes, i can relate to that. i never had been in a march before and my son had marches for him, and i was not ready for it and i was happy to see people out there helping us to do this but, please do not destroy your community, because you have to live there. you could have rallies and marches, but do it in a peaceful manner. i know it's hard and it's happening every year every week every day, but try to stick together. mother have peace in your heart. i know it's hard just think of the good memories of your son to hold on like sabrina said to have patience. just go by what you know about your son? >> since we are talking moms and we have two lovely moms who have grieved the loss of their sons, and you have seen a mom that took things into their own hands, and lot of people

questioning the tactics, but do you understand? >> we absolutely understood. it was just a reaction. she just probably couldn't believe that she seen the face of her child there. and she thought about what happened with freddy gray and that you are down here and you are putting your life in danger and she reacted as a mother and took things into her own hands and said i am going to handle this. >> that's what mothers do. they keep their children in check, because we have known and been out there and been growing up and we say a mother always knows and to know that you brought your child up the right way, and you don't know what they are going to do when they go outside. >> you have taken your fight all the way to legislation trying to get special prosecutors to take over police shootings. do you think lawmakers are are

agreeing with you? >> change doesn't come overnight, and we just hope it will work because we don't know. you take a chance on anything at life and we pray they heard our voices. >> a quick final note from each of you. i am sure there are things you wish somebody could have told you in those terrible moments and hours and days. what do you wish freddy's mom could know? >> just to rely on god, and put her faith in god, and don't put your faith in man, but put your faith in god and try to do normal things and have a normal life. she needs to make sure she is getting enough rest and eating and she needs to make sure that she surrounded herself by positive people and most importantly she needs to make sure that she has a word in her hard and he remembers her son. >> such incredible strength you both have. a delight to see you here. horrible under these

circumstances, but i am impressed and so inspired by your resillance. >> what do you think, give us a tweet at #cnnnewday. the president taking the heat when using the word thugs, and we will talk to one councilman that says the president is out of line.

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what is also true and what did get the lion's share of the coverage out of baltimore were the actions of a small minority that were nothing short of criminal actions, and whether it's arson or you know the looting of a liquor store, those were a thuggish act. >> the white house standing by the president's use of the word thugs when talking about people

who were looting and destroying property during the baltimore riots. critics have taken issue with the president over it including our next guest, baltimore city councilman. we will get in the politics and the power of words but let's deal with the immediate circumstance. tomorrow many members in your city especially from the poor areas believe tomorrow is the day. they heard the commissioner say it, we are going to hear what the police are going to do and are they set up for disappointment? >> they are not yet, and we have to keep making the message be heard today that the expectations are too high or inaccurate but, again, i think the authorities set this up and i think they said we are going to give areport on friday may 1st and that's tomorrow and they are not going to give a report publicly they are going to give it to the state's attorney and they are probably not going to make charges which is not unusual to make charges and then give it to the

prosecutor to see if there is an indictment going down, and apparently they are not going to go that far. >> tomorrow there may not be charges, and then the follow-up is why were they given that and is it wrong if there are no charges tomorrow or are you okay waiting for the process? >> i am okay waiting for the process to get it right, to make sure the investigation is fully completed. i don't want to get it wrong tomorrow. i don't want to have a false start. i don't want to give away information that could damage the investigation. so i am okay with that. we just have to make sure everybody understands there's a longer process, and they feel like they have waited too long because freddy gray is not an isolated incident and in this city the types of cases like this are well documented and

they are concerned this is part of a cover-up. >> and let's talk what people are running around and it's thug. how do you decide to judge the people in the poor areas? you are saying they committed a crime, and you are saying that that is code and you are talking around a reality that nobody wants to address saying not everybody who breaks a window is the same. >> i say often times we hear the university of kentucky and maryland -- what i am trying to say is that after particular sporting events students riot often, too often, and they loot and hurt police officers, and they call them college students not thugs. i can go on but i don't want to.

>> why is it? why are those kids college kids and why are people from the communities we are talking about thugs? >> the poor kids believe it's a racial code word. i am not making it up and that's what the young people in the communities, they are redeemable kids. they have made a horrible mistake and have been misled and they are hungry but to have a healing process, to begin to engage these young people you don't start with labeling branding and using harsh words. >> that's exactly what we are doing. you break a window, and you are a criminal and i don't want to hear about your past and that's what you are, period. >> it was a bad choice and it was a bad action but that's not who they are, and that's not who they are in their everyday lives or who they were yesterday or who they could be going forward. if we talk -- call them our

children and our hope and legacy and bring them to expectations up and don't give them a brand that they will live down to. >> one of the concerns that is bigger than the word that when you suggest and people suggest what you just did, let's try it a different way, and people have to ask themselves why. councilman thank you. we will be back with you moment tearily, chris, but first a word champion boxer, and george foreman will be here to share his predictions on the big fight, and his thoughts on baltimore.

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to learn more. two-time world heavyweight boxing champion george foreman, joins us live. we don't have to share him with chris. we have him all to ourselves. >> it's wonderful to be with you. that's for certain. i watch you guys all the time. talk about legends. >> you mean legends in the making maybe. >> thanks so much. let's talk about what is in the news today and that's what is going on in baltimore. what do you think as you watch the protests and clashes with police? >> i go back to 1965 when the riots, and then in '68, i was an olympian getting ready to go to the olympics and then the martin luther king and the

riots, and you don't worry about the riots, but it's what causes these things. and lyndon johnson, he was there. and police used to come out and volunteer to teach us and they would travel with us, and we didn't see their guns but we saw their dedication and that needs to come back. >> given that johnson tried to eradicate this so many decades here what has gone wrong now? >> people forget. you fix it and then it starts falling apart and you sweep it under the rug and you think it's going to stay there. it's something that must stay in action. you have activity going on to keep the youth in check. you see one of those moms going out there, and it rephaoeupbminded

me of my mom, and i went through shell shock, like she is back she is back. it's going to take the community and the police again, not so much as arresting us and they taught me out to box. they made me travel around the country. muhammad ali, the police taught us how to box, and they took their guns off and travelled in different states the national golden gloves and they made a difference in our lives. >> they still can. that's the important thing. >> i was robbing and stealing as a teenager and i did not understand it was a crime because everybody was doing it and police cornered me and i covered myself for the busted sewage pipe because the dogs couldn't smell me, and then i realized i was a they have. and then i changed. >> do you think these are

isolated incidents or do you think there is a crisis between black young men and police. >> some you just don't see as much as you can, but there is no difference in any boy, and you have to have your mom and dad. everywhere i go i keep a bunch of my kids and grandkids with me because i know if i take my eye off of them one moment they will be in trouble. >> we want to turn to something else happening right now, and we know you talked about how the police athletic league supported you in your boxing career, and a big boxing event about to happen, mayweather and pacquiao. >> this is really big. i never have seen a match like this and all of these big boxing matches, and this puts everything to rest. mayweather is probably one of the greatest athletes of all-time. nobody wants to give it to him,

because this is this generation. people don't want to admire them like they did, and george foreman, ma ahmedhaupl ali, and everybody is talking about the match, and who is going to win? it's a toss up. if you make a pick then you start pulling for your pick, and i don't want to do that and i just want to say it's going to be a great fight and there will not be one like this for a long time, and this is one for the ages. >> you brought t-shirts from your new project. you moved from the foreman grill to a site. >> yeah you can get on george foreman butcher shop.com.

>> if george foreman can come and cook it for me? >> i will. >> i knew he would. >> it's good to have you here. >> great to get his take on what is happening in sports but also in baltimore. the question is the unrest in baltimore history repeating itself? we will be back with closing thoughts after a short break. (little girl) no! saw her first day of school. (little girl) bye bye! made a best friend forever. the back seat of my subaru is where she grew up. what? (announcer) the 2015 subaru forester (girl) what? (announcer) built to be there for your family. love. it's what makes a subaru a subaru. dear stranger, when i booked this trip, my friends said i was crazy. why would i stay in someone else's house? but this morning a city i've never been to

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as we wrap up let's show viewers something that just came out in the past hour. this is the new "time" magazine cover. at first blush you cannot tell if this is from 1968 or if it's from today but turns out this is from today. you see the police officer chasing a protester, and chris you have been on the ground there for us all week. tell us what has struck you most? >> it's a clever cover, that's for sure but which way do you take it? you focus on this case and don't see anything else but there is so much else going on. the reason is not just freddy gray and it's how people feel about their survival and

surroundings and those exist in the '60s and they exist different today, and not more it's just different. >> there is a duhiskrep see there. "newsroom" starts now. happening now in the "newsroom," what really happened to freddy gray? according to a new report a prisoner in the same police van said gray was trying to injure himself, but what do the officers say? >> we unified and solidarity. >> beyond baltimore. protesters take to the streets in new york denver and minneapolis, with tensions simmering across america, why is baltimore open to