affectaffec affected. >> when you get backed into a corn, come back swinging. >> do i think it could potentially come back to bite him in the ass? absolutely. >> now we're a target. >> people don't realize the hoops you have to jump through, the roules you have to follow. >> if it was easier, everybody would be doing it. >> i just thought it was supposed to get easier. this is cnn breaking news. >> hello, everybody, cnn center with breaking news this hour from garland, texas. we like to welcome our viewers in the united states and all around the world. there has been a deadly shooting at a free speech event in suburban dallas featuring cartoons of the prophet muhammad. two gunmen armed with automatic weapons opened fire outside the curtis caldwell center. the suspects are dead but there are concerns there may be exploex plo explo exploesives in their vehicle. joining me on the phone from the scene, cnn's ed lavendera. ed, what's the very latest from there? >> reporter: hi, john. just a few hours ago, we are told by authorities here in the

dallas suburb of garland, texas, that two men drove up to an event at a civic center here that the organizers bill as a free speech event, but many of this group's critics say it is an anti-islam event and eventually it was an art exhibit and contest for drawing and painting cartoons of the prophet muhammad. and a very controversial event. we're told by authorities here in garland that toward the end of that event, there were two men who drove up on the scene in a dark colored sedan and started firing. we are told that those two men in that car have been shot and killed and are at the scene right now outside of this civic center. authorities have cordoned off several blocks around the civic center and cordoned everything off. we had a cnn producer inside the event when all of this was going down, going on, and everything was immediately shut down and

people were kept from going outside just as the event was starting to wrap up. so a very tense situation here tonight in garland, texas. just outside of dallas, john. >> okay, ed. so the very latest on the explosives in the vehicle, they still haven't ascertained that? and what about the evacuation of nearby businesses? what's the latest there? >> reporter: well, there obviously was some concern about what was going on in those buildings, if, indeed, these two suspects might have had been involved with other people. we have not seen any kind of others, other than being a precautionary move at that point. and we're told by the bodies of the two suspects are still next to the car there in the parking lot of the civic center. and the authorities are still trying to figure out exactly what kind of situation they're dealing with there with those men and the situation inside that car. concerns about explosives. that is a scene and work that is being done right now at this very moment here. >> do they know at this stage if

they're only dealing with two suspects or could there possibly be others involved in this? >> reporter: that's the indication we have right now that it's two suspects. we have not heard that there might be other people involved, so right now what we have are two suspects. >> the two suspects are dead. we're also told that a private security guard, one of many who were hired to provide security to this event, was wounded in the exchange of gunfire. what's his condition? >> reporter: he will -- i'm told he's in good condition. he's been released. this was an event that had been publicized for several weeks leading up to this event here this sunday night. so there was a great deal of controversy surrounding it, and obviously a great deal of security precautions that were put into place given the concern that -- the differing viewpoints that you might have shows up here at a scene like this and event like this. so there was a great deal of concern about security measures being taken here in the area.

obviously what you saw there was that that law enforcement presence outside the building as this event was going on, and obviously called into action here tonight. john? >> ed, it wasn't just the depictions of the prophet muhammad and just a reminder to our viewers for followers of islam, for muslims, any depiction regardless of what it is, a cartoon, regardless of if it's even seen as being respectful, whatever, is seen as blasphemy. it was the reason behind the "charlie hebdo" shooting in paris back in january. and so, of course, that is the assumption here that that was the target. also quite possibly one of the keynote speakers at this event, ed. >> reporter: you know, very controversial figures. the woman who was organizing this event is a woman by the name of pamela geller. she has been highly vocal in what she describes as stopping the movement of islam within the

united states. sees it as a real threat. and the speakers that were there tonight, at this event, you know, carried on many of those themes. the people who were here, i think there was probably a little more than 100 people who had attended the event here this sunday night. described this as a free speech event. they say any attempts to block them from being able to make these drawings of the prophet muhammad is an infringement of their free speech so obviously this is something you'll hear a lot about in the coming days as, you know, some view this as anti-islam, and others advocating here that what was going on was simply a matter of free speech. >> ed, the keynote speaker is a right wing dutch politician, a man known as geert wilders. in fact, he had just finished delivering his speech moments before the shooting occurred, we believe. you're seeing this wanted poster

on wrr screen right now. that's a wanted poster which was put out by al qaeda. geert wilders has been on al qaeda's hit list for many, many years. he has campaigned in the netherlands to try to ban the koran. he has also campaigned trying to ban muslim immigration into the netherlands. so he is very outspoken. he's very controversial. clearly no coincidence that he was invited to this free speech event. in garland, texas, this evening on a sunday night there. garland, texas, a suburb just outside of dallas. and ed, this venue we understand was specifically chosen by the afdi, the american freedom defense initiative, the people behind this, because there had, in fact, been a pro-islam event just a few weeks ago at the same venue, is that correct? >> reporter: it was. it was back in january. it was an event that was held

here. obviously nothing like this happened at that event, but it was definitely, you know, the same scene. you saw confrontations between people who felt threatened by islam, this particular -- the motive of what you saw here tonight in garland, texas. so, yeah, there was that tension, there was, again, a high presence of security back in january and a great deal of concern about just how volatile that situation might have become. and here now, this is exactly why this particular location, this civic center in garland, texas, was chosen for this event by pamela geller and the other folks who organized this event here tonight. >> ed, please stay with us. you're on the scene of the shooting. two men, we believe two men, their sexes have not been determined at this stage, but we're making that assumption, have been shot dead. their vehicle now surrounded by police because of concerns it they, in fact, contain

explosives. that's the scene on the right hand side of the screen. to the left is the scene inside that civic center. there was a heavy security presence both a s.w.a.t. team as well as the garland police department as well as private security guards as well. because of the controversial nature of this. the organizers knew that they could, in fact, most likely would, in fact, be targets. hundreds had, in fact, turned out for this event. evan perperez, justice corresponde correspondent, is also with us. he joins us on the line as well. evan, at this early stage, what more can you add to the conversation? >> reporter: well, you know, at this point, there is a very big concern that this is more like the attack in copenhagen where you had a free speech event, where you had people who were motiva motivated, again, by the -- by people who felt that this was going to be offensive to islam and wanted to take action to try

to strike back against it. and, again, this is something that the fbi, federal law enforcement, was aware of. this event was something that was as ed pointed out, it was very controversial locally, so there was a lot of heavy police presence and now what they're doing is first of all trying to make sure that everyone's safe, that it's no explosives, that there's no dangers to the public. now they're also trying to figure out who these suspects are. whether or not there was anything that they missed that they could have tried to prevent this because they were looking for this. they were -- there was some intelligence that someone could be motivated to look to do this, something against this event. and so now they're trying to figure out whether or not there was something missed there. and this is very difficult to prevent. you know, anybody who is motivated by these wanted posters or, you know, online

chat boards where people talk about people who are insulting islam, could be motivated to attack these types of events, and so it's very difficult for law enforcement to try to prevent it, but that's exactly what they're trying to figure out right now is whether or not these people were already known to law enforcement, whether there was anything missed and whether, you know, the next type of event like this could attract something like this. again, this is more -- >> yeah. >> -- appears to be more like something like copenhagen and luckily right now it appears the only people who were killed are the two attackers who tried to attack the -- >> just to remind our viewers, copenhagen was essentially sort of a lone wolf attack inspired by the events in paris with the attack on the "charlie hebdo" magazine which had concrete and serious links to isis as well as al qaeda in the arabian

peninsula. as opposed to copenhagen which was just a gunman who was freelancing at that free speech event there. but it is still obviously too early to find out just exactly who these two men were or who these two gunmen were. we also now have the mayor of garland, texas, douglas who is speaking right now. i think we should go to that now. that news conference and listen to what he -- actually, he joins us now on the line. mr. mayor, thank you for being with us. can you give us some details? exactly what do you know at this stage about the attack which has taken place in your city? >> there was a art exhibit this afternoon about the time several people were leaving around 6:50, 7:00. there were people leaving. two gunmen in a car tried to drive into the parking lot, jumped out with automatic rifles. started firing at an unarmed

school security officer. he was hit in the leg. he was transported to the hospital. and has been released. the first suspect was shot immediately. the second suspect was shot and wounded, reached for his backpack and, of course, officers not knowing any idea what was in the backpack shot him again and he was killed. both suspects are actually still lying at the scene while the bomb squads are trying to check the vehicle to see if there's any bombs or whatever. we don't have any confirmation that there's any bombs. just to be safe, we've evacuated all the businesses and everything in the area just to make sure that no one gets hurt. police have done an excellent job and we've had a lot of help from neighboring police tee apartme departments. >> at this point, you believe the two dead gunmen are, in fact, the only people involved in this attack? >> oh, yes. there's no indication of anyone else. that's not to say that there's not another vehicle that was parked earlier or something of

that nature because we haven't had time to check that out, but that would be purely speculative, so we have no other indications of anyone else being involved. >> so the security guard who was injured, you said he was unarmed? >> yes. he does not carry a gun. >> okay. talk to me about the security presence. i understand the organizers knew this would be controversial. they knew that security would be an issue. and i understand that they had gone to great lengths to hire extra security for this event? >> well, i can't really personally speak to how much security they hired. i've heard those reports. i know that the school district who owns the building where the building -- where the event was located had their own extra security officers there, but the city of garland also had a number of security and s.w.a.t. teams in the area to provide additional assistance that might be needed. and turns out that they were needed. so most of the -- probably most

of the police officers in the area that had guns were all garland police officers. >> so there some concern about hosting an event like this at a school? or in a school district? >> it wasn't at a school, but it was at a school-owned building. special events, where basketball games and other things -- it has a convention sent component. and they do rent it to the public. so events are held there all the time. this group wanted to rent it. there was concern which is why we had heightened security in the area. but we all swear to uphold the constitution. free speech, free assembly, and this case perhaps free religion. and so they were welcome to use it. use the building. >> and -- >> the reports i have right now, very few texans or garlandites even in attendance. most of the people there were from out of state. >> okay. what do you know about the keynote speaker, geert wilders

from the netherlands? >> i've known of him for a number of years, i've heard of him. i've never met him personally. but he was there from what i understand. >> okay. mayor douglas athas, mayor of garland, texas. thank withdrew for giyou for gi details there. the mayor telling us essentially the two dead people in the vehicle are believed to be the only ones involved in this attack at this time. out of an abundance of caution, the area is being sealed off as they slowly search the vehicles out of concern that there may still be explosives in that vehicle. at a number of businesses nearby have been evacuated. so, too, have the people inside that venue where this free speech was under way. we will take a short break here on cnn. you're watching our breaking news coverage from that attack at a free speech venue in garland, texas. we will be back in just a moment.

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on a free speech event earlier tonight. right now, a live image from the scene there. vehicles surrounded by police amid concerns that there may, in fact, be explosives inside that car. a number of businesses nearby have been evacuated. we're told by the mayor of garland, texas, out of an abundance of caution. authorities at this stage believe the two dead gunmen are the only two people involved in what is believed to be a terrorist attack. joining me for more on this, ben ferguson, cnn political commentator, also lives in dallas. ben, i guess you're following the news of this and the weeks leading up to this event and it was very controversial. >> incredibly controversial. i mean, ever since pamela geller and her group said, you know what, you have the stand with the prophet muhammad event in the same building in january, we're going to hold our own event and it's going to be an event we're going to publicize to the world and that's what they did. they wanted people to make cartoons. depicting the prophet muhammad in a negative light, send in

those drawings, have an art exhibit and was going to win thousands of dollars and the community, local community did not want this event because of these security concerns and they said -- have it in the same building they had a controversial speaker come that was very pro-al qaeda extremism. they were speaking in this facility and said we're going to show our freedom of speech and we will not be back down. we will not cancel this. even spent reportedly $10,000 of their own money on advanced security. this event was very controlled. you and i could not have gone to this event tonight without prepurchasing a ticket, that's how tight the security was. they knew exactly who was in the building, exactly who the people were in that building and having this kind of in a closed way but the artwork was very controversial. >> right to have freedom of speech especially in this

country. it was a constitutional right. but are questions being asked in some ways were they asking for some kind of attack -- was there some kind of invitation for an attack, if you like? >> i asked that question for one of the people helping put the event on on my show. people are going it look at this and say this is irresponsible to have something like this when you know you're going to need additional security and you know that this could be a flashpoint. they said that is packetly wh e muslim extremists want us to do, cower down and not have freedom of speech. we're not going to allow them to do that. they had an extremist speaker come in to the same venue and believe to recruit people to extremist ideas, we are going to show in america we will not cower down to this and we will stand even with those that were attacked in paris with "charlie hebdo," so they really did this as a -- they said as a show of we are going to stand up for freedom, we are not going to back down, we are not going to

controlled by extremists just these two gunmen, and we're going to continue to do this in america. >> what we know about the group which held this event, the american freedom defense initiative, because they've been around for a while? >> yeah, they seem to have a really new focus and that new focus is on attacking and exposing those that they believe are basically recruiting extremists in this country and around the world. and they also say that, you know, when you call them out, like al qaeda, they are proud to put a man up on stage today that is on the most wanted kill list of al qaeda. i mean, al qaeda obviously did not want this man to live another day. and when you put a most wanted list out there by al qaeda, there are extremists all over the world that are willing i think to sacrifice to go after these people. that's why they do this list. so they said, hey, we are going to bring these people in, they are going to have freedom of speech, you're going to hear their story of how they're being attacked by al qaeda, how would

you like to be on a hit list for standing up against muslim extremism? that seems to be the real focus is these type of events where they expose and i'm sure they're going to look at tonight as a perfect example of the intolerance of those that claim they are, you know, peaceful muslim really extremists in their mind. >> what about the critic who say, yes, we agree with freedom of speech but holding an event like this is like yelling fire in a movie theater? >> well, there's the many people in the community that did not want this event anywhere close to their homes. i mean, this area is an area that is -- i'm literally right now probably 12 miles away from it. you have a walmart, you have a sams club, you have grocery stores, you have houses. it's close to a school. this is a convention sencenter the community on a much smaller scale, major cities convention center. so this is more of a, you know, mom and dads come together, have little events. art shows, galleries and basketball games. this is a true community. the vast majority of the people

of that community very conservative, by the way, community as well. they did not want this. and to put it in perspective for you, this may -- some people may be shocked by this, but there was actually tea party members that were actually protesting this event. they did not want it in their area as well. >> ben, can you please stay with us? a lot more coverage to come. we have a lot more news to get to. we're continuing to follow our breaking news out of garland, texas. where gunmen have opened fire at this free speech event. they are dead. there have been fears, of course, there could be explosives inside the vehicle. we'll take a short break, but much more when we come back. you're watching cnn. ♪

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this is cnn breaking news.

>> updating you on the deadly shooting at a free speech event in suburban dallas featuring cartoons of the prophet muhammad. two gunmen armed with automatic weapons opened fire outside the curtis caldwell center. the suspects are dead. that is their vehicle right now. there are concerns there may in fact be explosives in that car. cnn producer christopher lett was inside the venue where this happened. there just a short time ago. christopher, what did you see when you managed to get inside? did you get to speak to anybody who was attending this event? >> reporter: yes, yes. i spoke to several people. i definitely spoke to the person who won the event. won the art contest. he's a cartoonist here in america. bosh. and she was -- was excited to receive this award. he, himself, is a former muslim, and also spoke to some attendees there who as the announcement

was made, expressed to me, hey, this is exactly why we have these events because we should be able to assemble and have our right to speak freely here in america without the guard of the police, however, of course, it was needed for this event here today. >> christopher, given the huge security and extra effort organizers went to knowing this could, in fact, be a target, were they surprised when it turned out that it was a target? >> it was a very general sense of calm after the announcement was made. they're disgusted at the fact they need this type of security in a place where free speech is enshrined in our constitution that there isn't -- there isn't a reason for us to have such

security. no one seemed surprised. they're very welcoming of the law enforcement help in this situation. however, they were saddened about the fact that this is -- that this is the state of affairs in a land where we have free speech is what they told me. >> crist thristopher lett, prodn the ground speaking to people in attendance at this, essentially offering $10,000 as prize money for the best cartoon depicting the prophet muhammad. there are 350 or so entries into this contest. reminder, any depiction of the prophet muhammad is seen as blasphemy in islam and we have seen publications which, in fact, have been targets in the past as recently as january with the "charlie hebdo" magazine in paris. where 12 people were shot dead. with that in mind, let's go to

peter bergen, cnn national security analyst. he, too, joins us on the line. peter, you've argued something like this is only a matter of time in the united states. why is that? >> well, you know, i think most americans watching this story unfold would say, hey, you know, this happening in paris or in copenhagen, you know, perhaps that's to be expected with very large muslim populations relatively speaking in europe. we've seen a procession of americans who plotted to kill cartoonists in the united states and elsewhere. for instance, pennsylvania native la rose who went by the name jihadi jane. she was plotted -- she's in prison because she was plotting to kill a swedish cartoonist. we also saw a chicago resident planning to attack the post and newspaper in copenhagen because they had done cartoons of the prophet muhammad. we also saw the whole controversy about the -- >> peter, i'm sorry, i have to interrupt you. we have a news conference under way right now with the local authorities. let's listen in.

>> so our bomb unit is there. they're still working on that vehicle. and that's where we are at this time. so far as the identifications or anything on the men, we've not touched their bodies because they're close by the car. once that's cleared, then we'll find out who they are and exactly what was going on. we are in the process of interviewing any witness along with the man that was shot. >> any idea how long it's going to take to clear that car to see what's in the car? >> that is the question that's been asked. it's a very slow, tedious operation that goes on. a lot of things. maybe even having to x-ray different things. so it could take several more hours. it could end in 15 or 20 more minutes. it's just we don't know. >> anything in the car? >> don't know that. >> joe -- [ inaudible ] >> don't know anything so far as any conversations that took place. the only things we know right now is they drove up, got up, opened fire on the security officer. >> joe, any indication --

[ inaudible question ] >> don't have any idea at this time who they are. >> is there something about the car that leads you to be s suspicious of the car? >> it's a matter of precaution because of what happened and what's happened at other events involving these people, we're taking every free caution we can. the event center, we evacuated businesses close by, we evacuated the event center by putting people in garland school buses and taking them away from the area. [ inaudible question ] >> don't know that. >> any immediate threat right now? >> not that we're aware of. however, you've seen helicopters flying overhead. those are police helicopters. >> joe, witnesses in the particular walking outside described seeing a third suspect being put in a squad car. can you give us information on that? >> don't have any idea of that. the only thing that i've been told is the two men that were out shooting that were shot and killed at the scene. >> just to be clear, the office that was shot, was he here working this event?

>> yes. >> part of security. >> when this event was organized, were you thinking something like this could happen? >> we prepared for something like this simply because there were additional officers that were hired for this event by the school district. we had talked with them in preparing for this event in case something like this happened. >> how many people were inside the event? >> approximately 200 attended %-pe the area to be locked down? >> no idea. don't even have a guess at this point. >> do you have an estimate for how long this entire sequence took from the time the guys pulled up to the time officers shot and killed -- >> very short. i was outside, heard the gunfire start. gunfire just lasted seconds before it was over. >> what was the first thing you did did? >> got in my car. got in a secure -- to secure and area where people could enter where the media was coming in. that's what i was responsible for and secured that area so no would come come in there and looking for anybody else moving around. >> any description at all of the shooters? >> no, i don't.

i just know two males. >> is the suspect vehicle known to the police? >> not that i'm aware of. >> any indications these are connected? the event and the suspects? >> not right now. certainly we're going to be looking at that. there's a lot of investigation to be done. once we get that car cleared, first, to figure out who it is and see what their connections are. >> describe the process, what is that like? what's going on right now? >> the bomb unit, they were getting ready to take up a robot and go through it. several different devices. also brought a bomb containment trailer in case they find something, they can put the incendiary device in that vehicle, that trailer. >> how large was it, how big of a -- >> we had to do was line up the school buses, get their drivers. we moved those people toward the back of the building further away from the car in case there was a bomb and it went off. once we got the buses secured, we brought them on prots, broug property, brought them out the doors they were taken into and evacuated them that way. say it again. >> what about the area

businesses? how big of an evacuation is going on right now? >> evacuation's done and we're working on the car. that's what's happening right now. >> the car is stolen, owned, rented? >> have no idea. >> how close did the car get to the building, itself? >> it stopped out in front of the building, and i would say it's to the -- not in front. probably to the side of the building. there is an entrance to the side. i believe that's on the west side on the roadway is where that is. >> the people in the school buses that were taken from the convention center, they were taken to an undisclosed location. are they going to stay there a while? >> i'm told there's media there where they are. >> are they going to stay there, free to leave? >> once this area is secure, all their vehicles are back at the event center. they'll have to get their cars. don't know if that's going to be tonight or tomorrow. [ inaudible question ] >> there's been all kinds of

social media out there. a lot of things that were put out that are not true. everything i've given to you is simply fact right now. [ inaudible question ] the two suspects, explosives on them or looking at the cars? >> we're looki ining at the car. we'll look at -- >> are there any credible threats in the area? >> so far as threats, we've been monitoring this for several months. so far as a credible threat that we had like this event that happened, no. >> any residents that are affected? can they get to their homes and out? >> not to my knowledge have we evacuated any residences. it's been the business that were around there closed. >> the hotel, we heard there were people at a hotel locked inside. any plans to evacuate them? >> don't know that. i haven't been told that. >> you said just a minute ago the bodies are outside the car? >> yes. yes. and simply because we're not going to expose ourselves to a bomb that's inside a car. and the bodies are close to the

car, so, yes, the bodies are still outside near the car. once that car is clear, then we'll take care of the bodies. >> just to clarify, there was no immediate threat, credible threat that you guys had going into this specifically? >> no. >> did both suspects have guns? >> how long did the shooting last? >> seconds. >> did both suspects have guns? >> yes. >> what kind of guns? >> don't know what kind of guns. we will know that once we get up to them. but, again, right now the threat that we're worried about and dealing with is the car and any possible bomb that may be in that car. [ inaudible question ] >> detectives are talking to him now, have not heard what he has said. >> was he hired by the group or -- >> he worked for garland independent school district. >> so all the security that was out here -- all the security, the extra security, was it paid for by the group that sponsored the art exhibit tonight? >> my understanding, yes. what garland isd does is for any

event they hire off duty garland police officers along with some of their security officers who are here tonight. there were additional police officers that were hired for this event simply because going back to the event that was here in january, then what surrounded these type of events in other parts of the world, additional security was added to this event tonight. luckily, it was because ends up we had a threat and they executed that threat. >> how many officers were there? >> don't have a number of all the offices that were there. >> could it be dozens or? >> i don't know. i can give you a number later on, but i don't have those numbers now. >> joe, will this impact the high school that's next door tomorrow? >> i wouldn't think so. simply because we would expect to get this clear -- the car cleared. of course, we've got a crime scene there. it's going to take hours to work. i wouldn't think, though, it's not close enough to the high school that it should delay any school opening there.

[ inaudible question ] >> all i know, it's two males. >> can you describe the aftermath of the shooting? >> locking down, securing areas, making sure there were nobody else moving toward the event center that may be carrying a guns or trying to harm anybody else. >> were there a lot of people in the parking lot or just -- >> no, there wasn't a lot of people in the parking lot. it was -- excuse me, it was probably 10 or 15 minutes before the event was going to be over when this occurred. okay. that's pretty well it. >> joe, any update on when you might be out again to talk to us? >> don't know right now. it's all depending on this -- >> we've been listening to joe harn with the garland police department giving us a few extra details about what happened outside that community center just a few hours ago this evening in that suburb of dallas. he tells us the bodies of the two gunmen are in fact outside the vehicle. they were dead, the vehicle continues to be searched by bomb experts looking for any kind of

explosives. they're concerned that the cars, in fact, may have bombs inside. he said that could take 15 minutes, could take another few hours. as regards to the actual shooting earlier this evening, he said the exchange of gunfire was very brief. just a few seconds at most and then the two men were shot dead. he said that at this stage there is no threat to the immediate area. they believe that the two people who are dead are the only ones who were involved. he also said that the police had been monitoring the event for many, many weeks in the lead wrup to thleadup to this, but as to the actual events of this evening there's no evidence there was, in fact, a credible threat to the venue. a lot more on the breaking news from garland, texas. the terrorist attack on a free speech event. we'll have that when we come back after a short break. you're watching cnn. apples fall, but the apples of your cheeks don't have to.

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this is cnn breaking news. >> the cnn center with our continuing coverage of the terrorist attack in garland, texas. just outside of dallas. two men dead. their vehicle believed to be maybe containing explosives. that is the scene right now as authorities search that car. the bodies not far from those two vehicles. the gunmen killed just a few hours ago in what many are now calling a terrorist attack there in texas. it was an exhibit depicting the prophet muhammad. cartoons. 350 of them had been entered into a contest offering $10,000 in prize money. and this is the end result. bob baer is a cnn intelligence and security analyst, also used to be the cia. he joins us now. bob, when you look at the scene there, it's a few hours old. does this look like paris, "charlie hebdo," or copenhagen? >> well, it looks like paris. on the other hand, it looks like the police were waiting for them. i mean, it was a quick response, a quick shooting.

i think they were probably waiting for some sort of violence or expected it in a certain sense. i think, you know, showing these cartoons is a provocation, an invitation. in this case, i think it was a lone wolf. anybody can obtain a gun, it's sacrilegious for devout muslims to show the picture of the prophet so this shouldn't really have come as a surprise to anybody. it probably didn't to the texas police. >> so when they say there was no credible threat, that means they didn't have specific information that two guys were about to get in a car and drive up to the civic center there in garland, texas, and open fire, but they had a pretty good idea that this was going to happen. >> i think anybody could have predicted it. i mean, there are a lot of muslims in this country that recognize that this is sacrilegious to show the prophet's picture. and, you know, frankly, as i said, it shouldn't have come as a surprise to anybody and i doubt there was any sort of intercepts or any, you know, heads-up this was coming. they would have closed it.

but i think the police, as i said, again, were ready for an attack. >> yeah, in paris, they killed 12 people. this time, you know, they managed to wound one security guard. so i guess that plays into your belief that clearly they were ready for this. what does that tell you about the two guys who are now dead? >> i just -- i think that it was a quick reaction on their part. they heard about the pictures and they picked up their guns. as you know, in texas, anybody can buy a gun there. and they headed for the exhibition. in paris, guns are a lot harder to get. there was only one policeman protecting the magazine, "charlie hebdo." it sounds like to me initial reports, there were a lot of police waiting to protect this event. >> does it worry you that this is essentially the beginning of these kind of attacks? >> i'm almost certain it's the beginning. you know, what really scares the police now is there's going to be better organized attacks than this one, and that's going to be

fighters from the islamic state combat trained coming back with a plan. and even the kind of protection this event had, if a really organized group who's been fighting in iraq or syria comes to this country and is capable of taking on the police, there would be a lot more casualties than we've seen tonight. >> bob, stay with us because we also have peter bergen on the line. he's also a national security analyst. so, peter, we were speaking a little earlier about the attack here and you also say that it was only a matter of time before something like this happened. i was wondering if you can talk a little bit about the keynote speaker there, the dutch right wing politician geert wilders who spent a lot of time on al qaeda's hit list. he is essentially one of their main targets. so i guess do you think he was essentially the focus of what was going on here, or he just happened to be there and a target of opportunity? >> well, i mean it seems like a

high level of coincidence. he's well known, you know, to people who might do violence in the name of the prophet. he release add film in 2008, meaning division, and it featured terrorist acts with koranic verses superimposed on them. he's certainly somebody, bob used the word provocative. he's, of course, not alone in holland doing sort of provocative films. it was, of course, theo van gogh who did a similarly provocative film called "submission" and he was killed in 2004. so it's a long sort of history of this in holland. you know, i think the point i was trying to make earlier, john, was that, you know, i think most americans didn't think this would wash up on american shores, but, in fact, we've had quite a number of american citizens plotting to kill cartoonists. we had jihad jane from pennsylvania who tried to -- plotted to kill a subject of another assassination attempt in

february in copenhagen. we've had one from chicago who plotted to blow up or attack the post newspaper in copenhagen which also had done cartoons of the prophet muhammad. we had the whole controversy around the "south park" episode where the prophet muhammad was shown and american citizens went to jail for inciting violence around that episode. finally most importantly i think we have an american cartoonist, molly norris who was doing cartoons of the prophet muhammad for a seattle paper and she's been in hiding the last four years, john. i think at the sort of urging of the fbi, and i think this incident in texas on the lines that that was quite a sensible decision. >> yeah. okay, peter. please stay with us. we'll have a lot more coverage of the incident, the shooting there in garland, texas. lot of unanswered questions, these two men, were they acting alone, were they inspired by isis? was there any kind of direct communication between isis, al

qaeda, any militant group or simply decide to go out and attack this very well publicized exhibit showing the prophet muhammad who, in fact, are they, and were they in fact acting alone? at this point we don't have answers to those questions. we'll try to work through that. in the meantime, we'll take a short break. much more when we come back. hey pal? you ready? can you pick me up at 6:30? ah... (boy) i'm here! i'm here! (cop) too late. i was gone for five minutes! ugh! move it. you're killing me. you know what, dad? i'm good. (dad) it may be quite a while before he's ready, but our subaru legacy will be waiting for him. (vo) the longest-lasting midsize sedan in its class. the twenty-fifteen subaru legacy. it's not just a sedan. it's a subaru. we alwith a shout,world and we see no reason to stop. so cvs health is creating

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this is cnn breaking news. welcome back to our continuing coverage of the breaking news from garland, texas. two men are dead. they are outside their vehicles as police search that car with the possibilities that there may, in fact, be explosives inside. at this point the police say that is being done out of an abundance of caution. the identity of the two gunmen at this point is unknown, but it does appear to be that their motive was, in fact, the exhibit of the cartoons of the prophet

muhammad, considered blasphemy in islam. ed lavendera joins me now from the scene in garland, texas. ben ferguson, cnn political commentator is also standing by in dallas. first to ed. ed, police saying it could be a matter of 15 minutes, maybe many hours before they're done with the scene there. >> reporter: right. it sounds like, they described it a tedious process that is under way. so much -- >> okay. ed, we have lost your audio at the moment. we'll try and get that back because we want to hear what you have to say. in the meantime, let's go to ben ferguson in dallas. ben, there was a lot of security around this event. clearly they were anticipating there could be trouble. there's also been heavy security around a pro-islam event as well at the same venue not that long ago. >> yeah. that's one of the interesting things about this and the community. when you have this first pro-islam, pro-prophet muhammad

event in january which is actually why we have this event today, it was a counterevent. there was just as many security concerns by those in the community and a lot of people were saying, look, we don't want really either one of these events in our community because they are going to be so controversial. many people that are in favor of free speech said i'm in favor of it, but why are we really doing these events? why are we hosting people that are so polarizing in a venue, in a community like this? so it's interesting to see how those two, you know, completely different viewpoints and yet a lot of people around these events did not like them. one of the things you're going to see come out of this tomorrow, so many people are going to say this is exactly what we were concerned about. we know there are people who are willing to take a gun and willing to shoot people in the name of free speech if they make fun of prophet muhammad. we knew they existed. now they're in texas and this is a terrorist attack in their eyes. >> ben, i want to head back to ed lavendera.

we have ed back. ed, give us the scene there. how long before all of this is sort of wrapped up? >> reporter: yeah, i was just describing the situation of authorities, what is pressing here and will be pressing in these overnight hours is the processing of that scene where the two suspects were shot and killed here tonight. authorities say they have still not even been able to approach the bodies of the two suspects because those bodies are so close to the car and they're going through the process here and that could take some time here to make sure that there are no explosives, and that's what investigators and authorities are concerned about here tonight. and so that will be what they'll be working on here over the next couple of hours. john? >> okay, ed, thank you. ed lavendera live from the scene of this terrorist attack there in garland, texas. a suburb just outside of dallas. we had ben ferguson, a political commentator in dallas just before ed. police are continuing to evacuate the area. it is still locked down as they search these vehicles. it is still an active security situation. we still do not know the

identities of the two men involved, who they were, in fact affiliated with, if anybody. we'll try and get those answers. we'll continue with our coverage from garland, texas, in just a moment. you're watching cnn. if you struggle you're certainly not alone. fortunately, many have found a different kind of medicine that lowers blood sugar. imagine what it would be like to love your numbers. discover once-daily invokana®. it's the #1 prescribed in the newest class of medicines that work with the kidneys to lower a1c. invokana® is used along with diet and exercise to significantly lower blood sugar in adults with type 2 diabetes. it's a once-daily pill that works around the clock. here's how: the kidneys allow sugar to be absorbed back into the body. invokana® reduces the amount of sugar allowed back in and sends some sugar out through the process of urination. and while it's not for weight loss,

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it's time. lower your blood sugar with invokana®. imagine loving your numbers. there's only one invokana®. ask your doctor about it by name. hello, we're continuing with breaking news coverage from garland, texas. >> joining john for this hour. we'd like to welcome our viewers in the united states and who are watching around the world. >> we'll start with the latest now where police in garland, texas have shot and killed two men suspected of a drive-by shooting outside a convention center. >> they were holding an event built as the prophet mohammed art exhibit and cartoon contest at the time. authorities are checking the suspect's car right now for possible