"the lead" cnn. that's it for "the lead." i'm jake tapper turning you over to wolf blitzer in "the situation room." wolf? happening now -- new tension in baltimore. confusion in the streets as a suspect is arrested and a gun goes off. police troush explain what happened. just a day after a curfew is lifted can they keep a lid on the situation? impossible case? six police officers charged in the death of freddie gray. many people now asking if the prosecutor can get convictions. will the experts -- why the experts say this is going to be a very tough case. texas terror attack. two heavily armed gunmen, one pledged loyalty to isis. storm an event focused on the muslim prophet muhammad. both assailants shot dead. are others out there. and north korean threat. a cnn exclusive. we'll take you to the dangerous frontier between north and south korea as the nuclear armed north

warns that in any future war, america will become ground zero. i'm wolf blitzer. you're in "the situation room." we're following two breaking stories right now. in texas, learning more about the suspects in a terror attack near dallas. at least one linked himself to isis. both were wearing body armor, and carrying automatic weapons. they got inside their target and wound add security guard before an off-duty traffic officer shot and killed them. tonight, many unanswered questions. we're also watching extremely tense situation on the streets of baltimore. crowds gathered after police say a man dropped a handgun while being arrested, and if went off. it went off. our correspondents are standing by. our experts working sources to bring us the late-breaking information, and we're standing by to speak with the attorney for the family of freddie gray. let's begin with cnn's brian todd he's in baltimore, and has the very latest. brian?

>> reporter: wolf the incident ramped up tensions because of everything that has happened here at the corner of pennsylvania and north avenues over the past week. the looting and violence of last week the protests that occurred, because of all of that. this incident that occurred a couple hours ago just ramped everything up more than it really normally would have. what we know happened. this occurred a couple hours ago. this information coming from lieutenant corner melvin russell of the baltimore police. there was an incident near this intersection of pennsylvania and north avenues. police observed an adult black male walking armed with a handgun, saw him on closed circuit tv doing that. they moved to apprehend him. a short pursuit on foot ensued. at in point the man's gun fell and discharged. it's not clear if it fell as police were upon him or approach aring him, but at some point the man's gun fell and discharged. no injuries. the man was not injured

according to police and he was fused medical treatment. treatment. police made him go with the ambulance out of an abundance of caution. again, this man has no injuries. the gun went off. one round spent but according to police it did not hit them. the police according to the officer we spoke to melvin russell, never discharged their weapons. again, this man is unhurt. again, this incident if it had occurred maybe four five blocks away maybe at another time of day, another you know another location this would not have made much news. because it happened here at this intersection it served to ramp up tensions a lot more. there was a police cordon across this street a short time after the incident wolf, but right now no visible police presence at this intersection and plings have calmed down significantly. >> they believe what the police say, brian? accepting what the police version of what happened is?

>> reporter: you're hearing different versions of that, wolf. some are accepting it and some are questioning it. but no one is getting overly upset about it. they're going about their business, traffic is moving normally. and you know we're going to wait and see if anything occurs. right now the situation is calm and the police have moved out of the intersection. >> brian, thank you. this afternoon the incident interrupted what baltimore hoped would be a return to normal after weeks of trouble and demonstrations after a busy but peaceful weekend, baltimore's curfew lifted. national guard troops preparing to pull out and stores reopening. our just it reporter evan perez has been talking with his police sources. he's joining u.s. for more on what's going on in baltimore. evan, what are you learning? >> reporter: wolf you know one of the things they know they have is a problem with the community and the trust that they thashs is lacking, frankly, and this incident underscores that, and there's a lot of work they need to do, they know. they're working on trying to provide some information to the

public about steps they're going to take to try to reform the police department. we expect that that's going to be announced in the next couple of days. but as brian said you know this incident quickly, quickly built. there's a crowd that built up at the scene simply because people don't trust the police and people don't trust anything that they say, it appears, and initially the police themselves were very confused, because they were pursuing the suspect. they saw him on the crime camera what they call crime cameras, and that's why they tried to arrest him. they saw he had a handgun a revolver and apparently according to them the account we heard from them he apparently tried to toss the handgun and that's when the gun went off. and you know they didn't fire any -- any shots, but it was something that quickly they had to bring in riot police to make sure that the crowd did not go out of control. wolf? >> evan how were police positioning themselves with no curfew for 10:00 p.m. tonight?

>> well you know they've pulled back in a lot of the locations. we still see them downtown near the tour of the attractions that are the life-blood of the economy here wolf but there's a lot less police presence here at city hall. you're free to walk into city hall without having to show your identification. that's a big change from the last week. but other than right there at penn north, which is the neighborhood where this incident happened today, you see a lot less visible police presence on the streets, wolf. >> evan. >> thank you. we'll stay in touch. joining us now in the "situation room" is billy murphy an attorney for the family of freddie gray. the man who was fatally injured while in custody of baltimore police. billy, thanks very much for joining us. we saw an immediate response after a suspect's gun went off on the streets today. you've been listening to all of those reports. certainly crime has spiked since tensions erupted in baltimore after freddie gray's death bp there have been at least eight

homicides since last tuesday, this according to "the baltimore sun." how worried are you that the city is sort of still in a tinderbox waiting for something to happen? >> i'm not worried at all, wolf. this is a great city. and everybody is anxious to get things back to normal. the business community is anxious to get back to normal. the people of the neighborhoods are anxious to get back to normal. working people are anxious to get it back to normal and that's the spirit of the city right now as i gauge it and it is particularly impressive that the police appear to have shown tremendous restraint in this latest incident and that should be communicated, if the facts of it can be verified as quickly as possible because people need to know that there's been change, and this may be the harbinger. >> as you know immediately after this incident there were a bunch of people out in the streets who claimed that the police shot this young man.

they didn't want to believe what the police were having to say. i guess the bottom line question is how much distrust is there in baltimore between young people especially out in the streets and police? >> there's a tremendous amount of distrust. there's a tremendous amount of distrust among the adults in baltimore about what the police will or will not do. and so as quickly as you can verify that this was an incident that was settled without injury and peacefully the more helpful that reporting will be and i don't think any of us need to speculate about it until it can be verified. that would not be a service to the community. >> you accept the version that the police have now publicly put out? >> no. i'm saying just the contrary. i'm saying, let's verify it. if the police are correct, get it out there as quickly as possible so people can understand there's a new day and that the police are showing restraint even under these kinds of circumstance.

that would be great flus for baltimore. >> certainly would be. >> it has to be verified w0678. >> you're in close touch, obviously, you represent freddie gray's family. how are they doing? >> they are not doing well. they -- have had moments of real uplifting. for example, when the community rallied behind them and continues to rally behind them. but they're grieving. they're in shock. you can only imagine what it's like to lose a child, or to be a sibling and lose a brother. >> so are they -- are they, though reassured from their perspective, that justice might be served? >> we hope justice will be served promptly. and there are two kinds of justice. justice for them and justice concerning the larger issue of these police officers. so we hope that this thing can be re10678ed quickly, so that

they can go about their life and they can grieve. hopefully privately. >> billy, if you can, i'd like you to stand by. we have more questions i want to review with you what's going on in baltimore right now. we'll take a quick break. much more with billy murphy, right after this. (vo) around age 7, the glucose metabolism in a dog's brain begins to change. (ray) i'd like to see her go back to her more you know social side. she literally started changing. it was shocking. she's much more aware. (jan) she loves the food. (ray) the difference has been incredible. she wants to learn things. (vo) purina pro plan bright mind promotes alertness and mental sharpness in dogs 7 and older. purina pro plan. nutrition that performs.

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big day? ah, the usual. moved some new cars. hauled a bunch of steel. kept the supermarket shelves stocked. made sure everyone got their latest gadgets. what's up for the next shift? ah, nothing much. just keeping the lights on. (laugh) nice. doing the big things that move an economy. see you tomorrow, mac. see you tomorrow, sam. just another day at norfolk southern. breaking now new tensions in baltimore after police approached a man carrying a gun. officers say the man's gun fell, discharged. no one was hurt. crowds gather, though, during

the confusion. police came out in force, but things are calm right now. we're talking with an attorney for the family of freddie gray. there you see him. freddie gray of course the man whose fatal injury while in police custody sparked weeks of disturbances. we'll speak with billy murphy in a moment before we resooumt our conversation whip him i want to go to brian todd for more now on the second-guessing under way, that those six police officers who face charges of what happened to freddie gray that it could be a very, very difficult case. what are you hearing over there, brian? >> reporter: certainly could be difficult, wolf. you know these streets, you've seen this afternoon, pulsating still with tension, with a lot of information. -- of energy. a dramatic friday that touched off street celebrations, rallies, protests. now the hard work of trying to get convictions begins for the prosecutions. legal analysts say by no mean is

it a sure thing. the prosecutor sounded extremely confident dropping the bombshell. freddie gray's death, marilyn mosby declared was a homicide. now the work of trying to get convictions begins and mosby's cases against the six officers are by no means slam dunks. >> these charges are very tricky to get convictions on especially with this sets of facts. >> reporter: one of two former baltimore prosecutors we spoke to who says the second depraved heart murder trial will be especially difficult to prove. >> typically it's described in law schools across country, somebody who would throw a flower pot out of a 20th story window on a crowded street. a reasonable person should know that's going to cause risk to injure somebody or kill them. >> reporter: proving goodson knew beforehand he was creating a specific risk of death for freddie gray will be tough.

an 4ri69 analysts say many cases against police are hard to win. four officers acquitted in the rodney king case even though they were taped beating him. also in the 1999 death of this man, shot him 14 times mistakenly thinking he had a gun. often sympathetic to police officers because of the dangerous nature of their work. >> i'm sure it's coming. try to get a change of venue in the case because juries tend to be anti-police to some extent in baltimore. >> reporter: lack of video in the police van are big hurdles in the gray case. strong suit against the officers. >> the officers' states attorney will emphasize innumerable requests mr. gray made seeking medical treatment. seems they're banking on the

idea mr. gray petitions for herp and was denied. >> reporter: much will depend on the woman brings this case. marilyn mosby's been the chief prosecutor in baltimore only four months. only a few years' experience as a trial prosecutor. >> she did have felony experience but didn't handle any homicide or wiretapping cases, or any attempted murders. the question then becomes, can a state's attorney who did not have has experience handle a case of this magnitude? >> are you trying to tell me what to do? >> reporter: could mosby's office get one of these officers or more than one to flip and testify against the others? the local attorneys we spoke to say that could be possible and if it did happen it would increase the chances of conviction but they say so far it's not likely. they say the police have been supportive of one another, have a long standing code of honor and one, a former prosecutor finger on the pulse of the situation says so far the attorneys for the six officers have been working together. of course, that could change. wolf? >> brian, thank you.

back with us is billy murphy. he's the attorney for the family of freddie gray. how difficult of a prosecution, billy, you're an experienced lawyer in baltimore, how difficult will this be for the state's attorney? >> well depends on the rest of the evidence that she has. nobody in her position would disclose all of the pieces to the puzzle. she was only disclosed what she thinks she needs to show probable cause. so we can't speculate based on what she has disclosed, how strong or how weak her case is going to be. there is a lot of time between now and the presentation of the evidence to a jury, and many things can happen. as one of the defense lawyers pointed out, somebody could roll on the rest of the police officers. and this code that they talk about of honor is not a code of honor at all. it is a requirement to be popular and accepted in the

police departments of america that you not tell on a police officer if you are a fellow officer, even if the police officer violated the law. that is not a code of honor. and so if somebody comes to their senses and say, for example, i saw or heard what happened, this is what happened and if it incriminates a fellow officer, i would not be at all surprised if that so-called code of honor, which is really a code of dishonor crumbles. >> what do you make of we just heard from -- only on the job four moss never really prosecutored a homicide. only 35 years old, relatively inexperienced. how much of a problem potentially is that? >> you know the assumption in that question is that she is going to personally try this case. maybe she will. maybe she won't. and another assumption is that she would try it by herself without the more experienced prosecutors in her office. maybe she will. maybe she won't.

but let's look at what's most likely to happen. she has an extraordinarily experienced team of prosecutors who have been also assisting in the investigation of this case. it is those people that the defense should be worried about, not marilyn mosby. when i say that you put your best people on the job, and this isn't a question of her ego politically or otherwise. that's what i think she's going to do. and so this question is really misplaced, because the assumptions are iran sincorrect, that the outcome or skill and experience that will come out in a courtroom is based on her and her alone. >> will the gray family and you represent them also simultaneously or later file a civil lawsuit against the officers against the city, for freddie gray's death? >> that's a question that we haven't answered yet. we're after justice. and

so we want to see at much of the evidence as possible before we do anything like that, wolf. this isn't about a rush on the gray's family's part to do anything in this case. we have the luxury of being able to wait until all of the facts develop before we do anything and that's what we've chosen to do so far. >> one final question before i let you go. a change of venue. you can assume the lawyers for the six police officers they'll seek a change of are venue arguing they can't get at fair trial in the city of baltimore. how difficult will that be for those lawyers? and i ask you as an experienced attorney in baltimore. >> well motions like that are usually based on publicity. and it would be hard to find any place in maryland that has not didn't saturated with the publicity that baltimoreans have been saturated with. after all, 99% of the publicity in this case comes from media,

and media is ubiquitous. the same television stations that broadcast into baltimore generally broadcast throughout the state. same network television broadcasts throughout the state. and so what we're suspicious about is that this will be moved to avoid a mixed jury and into a, hopefully, an area on their part that's their hope where it's going to about predominantly white jury, and that would be manifestly unfair and would aggravate tensions unbelievably. so people have to be very careful to apply the correct legal's stand standard. now, the way it's normally done by careful judges is that they wait and see whether a fair and impartial jury can be enpaneled in this jurisdiction and only if it can't be should the case be removed. that is the proper legal standard and of course a fair and impartial jury can be

impaneled in this district. >> the rondny king case moved it to simi valley wah they didn't think they could get a fair and impartial jury. the attorneys representing the police officers will at least make that effort, right? >> oh, of course. they would be probably committing professional malpractice if they didn't at least try, but what i'm concerned about is what the proper legal standard would be for removal and i they was the sense of your kwenchtsquestion. >> i think you're right. billy murphy thank you very much for joining us. >> thank you again, wolf. >> please pass along our best wishes to the family as you point out, they're going through a great deal of pain as all of us can appreciate. thank you. >> and, wolf thank you for those good wishes and thank you for the restraint that you've shown as an analyst in this case. >> well, just trying to do our job. appreciate it very much. we'll have you back.

billy murphy is the attorney for the freddie gray family. coming up, tonight's other breaking story. learning more about the suspects in a terror attack near dallas, texas. at least one, one of them linked himself to isis. across america people, like basketball hall of famer dominique wilkins, are taking charge of their type 2 diabetes... ...with non-insulin victoza. for a while, i took a pill to lower my blood sugar but it didn't get me to my goal. so i asked my doctor about victoza. he said victoza works differently than pills and comes in a pen. victoza is proven to lower blood sugar and a1c. it's taken once a day, any time. and the needle is thin. victoza is not for weight loss but it may help you lose some weight. victoza is an injectable prescription medicine

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tarper in texas. they wore body armor, carried assault rifles and one declared loyalty to isis. learning more about the two gunmen storms a controversial event featuring pictures of the prophet muhammad. both shot dead by a security

guard. turns out one of the gunmen was convicted in the past on a terrorist charge social linkses to isis and tweeted about the shooting before it even hammed. federal agents have been scouring the phoenix apartment that they had shared before they set out on their trip to garland, texas which is right outside of dallas. we have full coverage and i'll speak live with congressman peter king of homeland security committee, but let's begin with the very latest. justice correspondent pamela brown is in garl nltd. garland. what's the latest? >> reporter: we learned from sources one of the two gunman elton simpson was on it's fbi's list of terrorists. just a couple hours before he drove here with his accomplice nadir soofi, he tweeted about links to british isis jihadists

with the harb texasattacks. #texasattack. we have learned from officials that the two men pulled up here in the black sedan behind mere here. there was a security guard and an officer stationed right at the entrance. when the men pulled up the two officers got out of their car and then the two suspects got out wearing bullet-proof vests, started opening fire from their assault rifles. the officer returned fire and shot and killed both of the suspects. this investigation is ongoing. wolf i can tell you there was concern among law enforcement this event was happening and a joint bumtlletin sent out by the fbi in the days leading up to the event talking about a possible event.

there was great concern, no specifics, and today credited with a strong plan's in place being able to foil the attack. 200 people were inside the event, wolf. could have been a lot worse. >> soernlcertainly could have been. fbi agents searching the phoenix apartment where the two gunmen lived. live to our cnn correspondent in phoenix. what are you learning? >> reporter: the fbi has been here throughout the day. you can see what they did nover night. this is the door leading to the apartment the two men shared. the entire lock entire door in fact, was blown open. investigators were here throughout the day, in fact still talking to neighbors trying to piece together how the plan was hatched. not too many people suspected these men. they said two young-ish sort of guys living in this community. no outward signs of any

extremism. one of the men, elton simpson, clearly posted he wanted to sell that dark sedan that was eventually used to drive to texas. we also spoke to the mosque president who said even though he knew about elton simpson's arrest in 2011 he thought that may have been just a bad arrest. he may have screwed up with the fbi. he did not see this coming. here's what he told us. >> you know, two members that they didn't show any signs of radicalization or any signs of even thinking about those things in that manner. so when that happens, you just it shocks you. you know? how didgood did you know these people is the question that people ask themselves. >> reporter: he knew simpson for some ten years. he didn't know nadir soofi that long. he said he owned a local pizza shop would show up at the

mosque with his young son. again, didn't have any sort of outward display, wolf. we also did talk to the attorney who represented elton simpson in that 2011 arrest and she said of all the people she's represented, she didn't think that he was the one who would take thisstep to violence. >> we know elton simpson, 30 years old, convert to islam went by the name ibrahim, second suspect naydermade nadir soofi. what do we know about him? >> reporter: basically what the mosque told us. it's that he didn't appear to be married. he never showed up with a wife. he did show up way young son. he didn't talk to a lot of people at the mosque he had a pizza shop people would eat pizza at and buy pizza at. seemed well adjusted even though not deeply involved in the mosque they didn't hear any sort of radek'sization from him.

>> thanks kyun lah. and congressman, thanks for joining us. i assume you're getting briefed on what's going on from your intelligence law enforcement sources. what can you tell us about this terror attack outside of dallas? >> well wolf, basically what we're talking about here is an attack that seems to have been certainly planned by these two in the past. the ak-47s, knew exactly when to strike and there seems to be contemporaneous social media contact. almost after the attack. i've spoke ton people who think it would be difficult for isis for instance to have been made aware that quickly of this attack but this is still the early stages of the investigation. the fact that simpson was apparently involvement with al shabaab going back several years, now an affinity for isis. the fact there was social media dialogue going on with isis

members and other islamists soon after the attack all of this has to be fully investigated. clearly at the very least, i think this was isis-inspired. >> could have been so much worse, as you know, congressman. both of these gunmen nadir soofi, and elton simpson, awaring body armor, carrying assault rifles. can only imagine what would have happened if they would have gotten into that building, and simpson himself was on probation after that 2011 conviction for making a false statement involving terrorism. the two traveled over several state lines from arizona to get into texas, garland texas, outside of dallas. the question why weren't these two guys being watched more closely? >> well i'm one of those who thinks they should be. again, i'm not aware of the particulars of the case other than what's made know up to now. i do believe in having more surveillance of people in the muslim community, because that's where the threat comes from but

it's difficult to do and certainly if done toop often courts can claim undue interference. the fbi probably goes as far as they can in the world we live in today. they should be authorized to go further. especially in a case pleaded guilty about lying to the fbi about his connections. whether or not he could have been convicted on more than that at the time, certainly he becomes to me a person who should be watched, who should be surveilled and alsos to see who he comes in contact with. we as a country have the to come to the realization this is a war we're in, and that you have to respect people's constitutional rights shue voyou should not have a strict interpretation. it's apparent to me a person pleads guilty to a terrorism charge should receive more surveillance than the average person. >> congressman, stand by.

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republican congressman peter king of new york. congressman, one of these two gunmen elton simpson, was on probation, you knee. you know. he tweeted before the attack. used #texasattack and pledged a tweet, loyalty to a british isis group. and it's hard to believe, at one point actually tweeted, put it up on the screen may allah accept us as mujahadin. what do you make of that? >> it shows he definitely was connecting himself to isis. whether or not isis knew about it in advance, that's going to be the question. as i say, i think that you may well find some direct links here, because of the fact that so soon after the attack you find contemporaneous, almost contemporaneous social media contacts and discussion of this attack and, again, you know we're at early stages of this

investigation, and i assure you the fbi is going through his apartment, and going through all the phone records credit card bills, everything to find out who he's been in contact with where he's been and this could again spread itself out exponentially. that's what the fbi is looking at now. >> the head of the nsa, admiral michael rogers told cnn not long ago there are in his words, blind spots in the u.s. ability to track terrorists inside this country. would you say this is an example of that? >> this could be. i'm not certain if this is what admiral rogers was talking about. there are blind spots i'm aware of. i don't know if this is one or not. i also know fbi director comey said fbi directions of isis going on in all 50 states. they were in arizona. a number of the 9/11 hijackers spent a period of time in arizona also. we have to look at that to see whether or not there's any other connections coming out of

arizona, and again, all circle and some may end up nowhere. these are the leads the fbi will continue. i assure you. that means working with all the elements of our intelligence agency including the nsa, cia, everyone to see what overseas connections there are and also if it goes just isis itself or to affiliates in europe. >> how worried are you about copycats? >> oh, we have to be. you have to be concerned about the trained person who was actually working for isis and those who just want to cause the type of incident like last night. i mean you mentioned before this came so close to being a mass catastrophe, and you get some wannabe who sees the opportunity to make something in his eyes out of his life by killing a large number of people and seeing how easy it would be yes, we have to be very concerned about that. that's again why it's so important we have as much constant surveillance as we possibly can. >> peter king, the congressman from new york. thanks very much.

>> wolf thank you, as always thank you. coming up, a cnn exclusive. we'll take you to what's calmed the most dangerous place on earth. demilitarized zone between north and south korea. warning at any future war, america will become ground zero according to north korea. we're going live to pyongyang, north korea. or a mouth breather. well, put on a breathe right strip and instantly open your nose up to 38% more than allergy medicines alone. so you can breathe and sleep. shut your mouth and sleep right. breathe right. [ male announcer ] whether it takes 200,000 parts ♪ ♪ 800,000 hours of supercomputing time 3 million lines of code, 40,000 sets of eyes, or a million sleepless nights. whether it's building the world's most advanced satellite, the space station, or the next leap in unmanned systems. at boeing, one thing never changes. our passion to make it real. ♪ ♪

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now a cnn exclusive. a visit to the most dangerous place on earth. the demilitarized zone between

north and south korea. but the north warns in a future war america will become ground zero. we toured the north korean side of the border. he's joining us from the capital of pyongyang. this is a major development. tell us what you saw and what you learned. >> reporter: wolf as you know when you came here to north korea there's a lot of restrictions on travel. when we learned yesterday we would be taken to the demilitarized zone the dmz between north and south korea and we would be given remarkable access and the ability to speak with a military official who gave a very serious warning for the united states. like troops heading into battle north koreans follow banners heading into work. right now we're on the main road heading south from pyongyang towards the border between north and south korea an area known as the dmz, the demilitarized zone.

the dmz is anything but demilitarized. this barren road takes us to the cease-fire line that ended the korean war in 1953. today a heavily fortified border with both sides constantly prepared for war. junior lieutenant colonel is part of north korea's standing army of more than 1 million, nearly three quarters stationed close to the dmz. he calls it the most tense place on the planet. more than 60 years after the cease-fire north and south korea are still technically at war. >> this is where you used to negotiate with the americans. >> reporter: most western historians said north korea started the war. here they teach a different version of history. america is the real culprit he says. but still the americans deny the truth. the tension is palpable as we approach the border. >> is there a real danger here of something breaking out?

yes. >> reporter: armed soldiers stand just feet from the border. the scene of occasional deadly violence in the year since the cease-fire. as we enter a building straddling the line between north and south and ominous warning of an even bigger danger. the americans have been threatening us with nuclear weapons he says since the days of the korean war. >> so is that why north korea continues to develop its own nuclear program? that's why we've equipped ourselves with nuclear weapons he says to counts terrify american nuclear threat. he points out no country with a nuclear weapon has ever been attacked. report leaked by the "wall street journal" claims chinese nuclear experts recently warned the u.s. they say pyongyang now has 20 nuclear devices and is expected to double that number soon. north korea also believed to possess long range missile technology. if another major conflict breaks out between north korea and the u.s. he says america itself

will become ground zero. a six decade old war, considered history by much of the world, still a very real part of life on the dmz. a painful reminder of the region's violent past. tense present. uncertain future. on the ground here in north korea, wolf i have to say as we speak, not only to the military but to north korean citizens there's a real resentment to the u.s. and they feel the u.s. is to blame to the country's isolation due to economic sanction. >> in pyongyang the capital where you're at now what's it like? what's the mood over there? >> reporter: the mood here is one of optimism. people here in pyongyang, while they of course would like to be more involved with the rest of the world, they feel that their standard of living has improved. they've had a good crop the past

few years. people appear to be well fed. you're sealing more cell phones in people's hands. people are wearing newer clothing and shoes. so it does appear north korea is trying to make progress economically but yet you still hear that powerful military rhetoric that has continued to distance this country from other western countries including the u.s. >> we'll check back with you tomorrow. good exclusive reporting. not often we get a live shot coming in from pyongyang, north korea. will riply on the scene for us. you can learn more about will's trip to north korea, he's showing exclusive photos and stories at cnn.com. coming up confusion in the streets of baltimore as a suspect is arrested and a gun go off. police rush to explain happened. a day after curefew is limited.

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happening now baltimore on edge a bun goes off. police mobilize creating new tension and confusion. tonight fears that one wrong move could reignite a city. terror in texas. was isis behind an attack by two men with assault rifles who crossed state lines to target opponents of muslim holy war. the two gunman have been identified. they are both dead as investigators search their home for clues.

and this. ♪ >> the republican gospel? the 2016 presidential campaign takes strange turns as a choir rasp an eminem hit and two controversial gop candidates jump into the race. we want to welcome our viewers in the united states and around the world. i'm wolf blitzer. you're in "the situation room". we're following two breaking stories tonight, tense and confusing moments on streets of baltimore as police make a new arrest and witnesses hear a revolver go off. stand by for the latest information on what happened. also breaking federal authorities are investigating a possible link between isis terrorists and an attack in texas. one shooter was a isis sympathizer with a link to terror. we know the names of both gunmen

who were killed by a police officer who opened fire outside of an event featuring controversial drawings of the prophet muhammad. we have our correspondents all standing by as we cover all the breaking news. let's begin in baltimore and the new tension following that police incident. cnn's brian todd is on the scene. brian what your seeing and hearing tonight? >> reporter: wolf a moment of tension here made even worse by the fact that it occurred in this intersection of pennsylvania north avenue where so much of the tension has occurred over the past week. this is the place where bulk of the protests occurred and looting and burning of cars occurred. a couple of hours ago we had a gun incident police gave us information on exactly what occurred. they observed a man by a closed-circuit camera. they observed him walking with handgun. when police approached him a short chase ensued on foot. at one point the man's gun fell

and discharged according to lieutenant colonel russell of the baltimore police. the man was not injured. no one else was injured. we're told by the police that they, the police never discharged their weapons. but it does come again, at a time when we have just come off a week of heightened tension especially at this intersection of pennsylvania and north avenue and it comes at a time when city authorities tried to ramp down the tension. they lifted the curfew. national guard is in the process of withdrawing from baltimore. this incident this afternoon made tensions boil for a short time but things have calmed down here. again, the suspect was not injured according to police. he did not want any medical attention but they took him away in an ambulance just in case. >> let's hope it stays that way. athena jones is also in baltimore for us. what your seeing athena? >> reporter: hi wolf. same situation, much calmer here at this intersection where at

this time last week the last looting of the cvs pharmacy soon be set on fire. now much much calmer here and across the city. things are peaceful. and almost back to normal. president obama today in new york. >> that sense of unfairness and powerlessness of people not hearing their voices that's helped fuel some of the protests we've seen in places like in baltimore, ferguson and right here in new york. >> reporter: the city of baltimore rocked by violence this time last week tries to return to normal. with some 4,000 national guard troops beginning to pull out. the mayor lifting the curfew on sunday. good news for local businesses. >> i am really really happy about that. i can not wait to see our regular, i cannot wait to see customers, i cannot wait for employees to feel relieved. >> reporter: the mall that was

one target of last week's looters has opened its doors again. >> this is just a great day for this community to have the mall reopened. >> reporter: since april 23rd police made 486 arrests. and 113 police officers were injured. some 200 businesses most minority owned were lost in last monday's violence. hundreds of millions of dollars in losses. >> it's going to take a little while for us to get back to normal but lifting the curfew is a good idea. it's been a really rough week but let's get back to normal in the city and get people back to work and school and get people coming back into the city. >> reporter: once tense demonstrations turned into celebrations. a group of marching bands showing up at city hall sunday to show a positive picture of baltimore. meanwhile it's only the beginning for the legal case against the six officers charged in freddie gray's death. now the question is whether

state's attorney marlin mosby can win convictions. >> at the end of the day my job is to seek justice. >> reporter: so things have calmed down but of course it's going to take many in this community a while to recover after the looting and burning and money lost during the curfew but the law enforcement presence is getting back down to normal levels and already 1500 of the 4,000 national guard troops have pulled out. the full withdrawal is expected to be completed in the next few days. >> thank you. let's talk about all of this and more with one of the organizers of the baltimore protests, the reverend jamal bryant pastor thank you very much for joining us. what's your reaction to what we saw a couple of hours ago or so in the streets of baltimore, confusing reports we heard a man had been shot by police police then explained no weapon was discharged the individual was arrested. but it sort of underscores a tense situation, right? >> it reveals that so many

people were wishing on a style that after the indictments were read that everything would go away. but as you can see baltimore is still in a tense situation because there's a whole lot of issues that need to be addressed. so much larger at this point than freddie gray almost akin to giving chewable vitamins to a patient saying it will get rid of a tumor. we have to deal with voter disenfranchisement, the prison pipeline. so many issues, the governor, the mayor and end the president will have to address and it's just not going to go away because as you aforementioned we have a long journey before we get into a courtroom. >> let me pick up on what you say. voter disenfranchisement. are people having trouble registering to vote? >> you have to under in a population of some 600, 700,000 we only have 11,000 voter turn out in the last election.

so maybe it's voter disillusionedment because they didn't feel any change would happen. friday there was a pronounced exclamation with marlin mosby, 35 years of age, youngest attorney general told young people you did this. she ran against an incumbent. she was woefully under-funded. the community came out. because she stuck with them the young people understand the power and influence of their vote. >> people were allowed to vote a lot of times people don't go out to use that right that we as americans have. how much mistrust is there between the police and community right now? >> it's a whole great wedge that needs to happen. tremendous pain has been inflicted and just saying i'm sorry doesn't make the pain go away. what you have not dealt with is on last monday when all of this

broke loose, when mondawmin shut down there were a cluster of children who were stuck at the mall didn't have cell phones and couldn't gate ride home. there is to be marital counselling between police and citizens of baltimore to see how we co-exist under the same house and move forward. the page has to be turned and as your reporter just mentioned we're in the healing process we cleaned up. we're looking forward to a brighter day for baltimore because we are, we believe charm city, the most resilient people in the united states. >> you think that the leadership in baltimore, the mayor, the police commissioner the state's attorney can they get the job done the healing process? >> they are going to have to. at this point we take on the position of realizesinging nobody will be left behind. the gatest violence you can inflict on people is poverty. we felt our greatest pain. now we hope america realizes and

recognizes how much abject poverty has taken place. we don't want campaign promises. weptd an infusion of capital into inner cities. >> the state's attorney has filed charges against the six baltimore police officers in the death of freddie gray. do you think she can get convictions in those cases? >> that's up in the air. we don't have much of a precedent when you consider that since 2005 only 12 u.s. officers have ever been convicted of that kind of a crime. only 12 since 2005. in south carolina alone where last week all of the media attention was, since 2011 216 officers have shot people. with no repercussions until walter scott. baltimore realizes that there is a long ride between an

indictment and a conviction. as a consequence you got george zimmerman walking free. you got mr. darren wilson in ferguson ordering pizza. feeling absolutely no consequence. baltimore feels like we're making steps and strides simply by having these six officers mugshots on television helped us turn the corner to know that it's possible and, wolf even if they are not convicted please know baltimoreans are armed with their rights and understand we won't let it keep going on as it has always been. >> reverend we'll take a quick break but i have more questions for you if you can stick around. we would be grateful. much more with ref rand bryant when we come back. about long-acting levemir®. as my diabetes changed it got harder to control my blood sugar. today, i'm asking about levemir®. vo: levemir® is an injectable insulin that can give you blood sugar control for up to 24 hours. and levemir® helps lower your a1c. levemir® lasts 42 days

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. we're following the breaking news the spiking tension in baltimore after a suspect's gun went off as officers tried to take him into custody nope one was hurt. it happened as president obama was in new york city talking about the troubles in baltimore and announcing a new initiative. first i want to go to our white house correspondent michelle kosinski who is joining us from new york with more on what the president had to say today. michele? >> reporter: wolf it was pretty remarkable. while people at home watch those pictures play out in baltimore the president here announcing a new my brother's keeper private nonprofit called out the press, he called out politicians, and society in general for being reactionary. for only paying attention to those communities when something big is happening and going about their daily business. he said indifference weakens our nation as a whole and it's time

to move beyond simply blaming the policing. >> if we ask the police to simply contain and control problems that we ourselves had been unwilling to invest and solve it's not fair to the communities or the police. what we gathered here to talk about today is something that goes deeper than policing it speaks to who we are as a nation. and what we're willing to do to make sure that equality of opportunity is not an empty word. >> reporter: the president also got really personal here saying that he identifies with some of the young men and he himself growing up didn't have a father often felt lost end adrift and what separated him from other kids getting a few more chances. he said this goal of expanding opportunity in america is something he'll work with along with his family for the rest of his life.

wolf? >> michele, thanks very much. i want to bring back the ref rand print. he's one of the organizers of the protest there's. what's your reaction to what the president had to say today, pastor. >> i'm inspired to hear the president say that that he's able to get where he is because he was given a few more chances. i hope he'll afford that same courtesy to the same young people he called thugs last week. the reality is we had seven successful days of nonviolent protests and just one day where we had a major mishap. a lot of young people are still wounded bipartisan it and i hope that the program will find its way to baltimore as well as i hope the president will come himself so that he can see how dire the reality is in our city. >> he hasn't taken back that word thugs. the mayor of baltimore did. you want him to do that? >> yeah. i need him to do it immediately not only did our mayor do it but our president of the city council rescinded that word.

i spent much of last week going to high schools in baltimore and hear the frustration and agony of our first and only african-american president do that was amazing to us that whenever there's a revolution something is always broken. you can't just sweep it under the rug. april 12th donald rumsfield, secretary of defense in trying to give some insight as to what was taking place in baghdad, he said looting sometimes is in fact the by product of freedom. whenever you're coming out of dictatorship something is going to be broken. that's what the secretary of defense said on the exact same day that freddie gray was murdered. so at some point we got to have some balancing act as to how it is that our young people particularly african-americans are swept under the rug and everybody else is given a pass. >> what would be achieved from your perspective -- i know you like the president and probably the attorney general to come visit baltimore. what would happen how would he be received? >> i think warmly.

people don't want to know how much you know. they want to know how much you care. i think that you've seen over the last couple of days in baltimore, we are, in fact, a civil people. we're a rational people. but when you talk about decades of he in bekt decades of abject poverty, decades of being overlooked and cast aside it comes to a boiling point and that's what you saw last week in baltimore and almost saw again today. there's got be some revisit as to how it is baltimore just 43 miles from the white house, 43 miles from the nation's capital, and when you go six miles away from the inner harbor it's as far as east is from west. >> you would welcome him at your church i assume right? >> i would be ushering walking him down the center aisle. we would be gas to have him. i voted for him twice. i'm proud of the work he's done. in hours like that, lot of people try to absolve their conscience by throwing a check

at the problem but not being a part of it. it would be going a long way for african-american young people who are, in fact the true leaders of this movement from ferguson to staten island to baltimore success led by young people. no organization no leader just young people who understand we are committed to changing this nation one city at a time. >> we month the curfew has been lifted the national guard troops several thousand of them are drawing down. what do you think will happen in the coming days? what would you like to see happen? >> i want to see the businesses thrive. so many business leaders have called me have come to see me and said pastor please whatever it is we can do let's stop it. baltimore is one of the most beautiful cities in all of america. we want as much business to come there. but, wolf with that we want when business comes for them to be able to participate and to be able to contribute in minority businesses. minority business owners do not have enough stake in the business and enterprise of our

city with us being 64% of the population there should be more evidence of it in terms of the contractors, in terms of entrepreneurs and in terms of those leading in business and all they need is an opportunity such as which was afforded to our president. >> let us know if you get a call from the president to welcome him to your church. thank you very much for joining us. >> thank you for having me. >> more breaking news coming up including the positions link to an attack in texas that's left two gunmen dead. plus a cop shot on duty has died. we have new details on a case that's rocking new york city.

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. we're following breaking news in baltimore. new tension after a suspect's gun fired as he was being taken into custody. police say no one was hurt but the suspect was taken to the hospital as a precaution. let's get some more. joining us the former fbi assistant director tom fuentes, joey jackson and jeffrey toobin. we saw an immediate response after the suspect's gun went off in the streets of baltimore. crime has speck since tensions erupted after freddie gray's dead. eight homicides since last tuesday alone according to the "baltimore sun". the bottom line question baltimore is not out of the

woods yet, is it? >> no it's not out of the wood yet, wolf. not at all. in there being this past weekend was inspired by the people and what they were doing. i think what they certainly appear to be doing is attempting to move forward and get matters together. and i think that there was some real sense of hope in their efforts at least from the county attorney in taking the first step in seeing whether or not these officers should be held accountable for what they did. i think that will go a long way in terms of the pursuit in the event there's an indictment and in the event there's a trial to sort of convey to the community that there's a real concern about them about what happens to them and any injustice whether by the police or those police be black, white, hispanic or anyone else or whether civilian crime it be dealt with and dealt with accordingly. that's what i saw and heard while in baltimore this weekend. >> it seems and you spontaneity lot of time in baltimore over the past few days the police have their act together better now because after that gun was

discharged today there could have been real riots, if you will. but they got their act together. they explain what was going on and things calmed down. >> they detector wolf but it could have been worse. if the subject didn't drop that gun, turn and pointed it at a police officer they would have shot and killed him and we would be back to where we were last monday. fortunately he dropped his gun and the police didn't fire a shot. you have a black police commander come out on the sidewalk immediately and say no police officer fired a shot and the crowd doesn't believe them. >> there's suspicion of the police. it would have gotten worse if the police didn't act as quickly as they did. >> the question is what do we want the police to do. they pick up on the security camera this guy has a gun. if we confront him the crowd won't like him, ignore him, let it go. if you have to make an arrest

then what? >> how solid of a case jeffrey toobin marlin mosby the state's attorney has? >> i think the only fair answer at this point is we don't know. obviously these are very serious charges. and the prosecutor gave a rough outline of how she thinks the events transpired. there was not a lot of detail who will prove it. who was the witness who said the driver wanted to see in effect freddie gray dead? i mean that's a very serious accusation. he's charged with second-degree homicide. that is not -- you know she's going to need witnesses who can put bad, who can show criminal intent on the part of these defendants. and she may well have it. she may have admissions from these defendants. but in terms of what's publicly available there's really not much proof out there.

>> joey i spoke in the last hour with billy murphy the lawyer representing the freddie gray family and he said he fully understood that the lawyers representing these six police officers would try to get a change of venue, move any trial from baltimore elsewhere in maryland would be a dereliction of their responsibility as criminal defense attorneys if they didn't. here's the question. do you, joey how difficult will it to be move trial out of baltimore? >> you know i think it depends certainly on whether or not there's a feeling that you cannot get a jury that would be fair and impartial. look, the point is that there are a number of people a number of people who will be called to that jury pool and they will be questioned and evaluated and if the standard is not so much have you heard about the case the standard is having heard about the case and having evaluated the case in your mine without knowing any evidence can you give a fair hearing to the defendants as they sit there. and if the answer to any of

those people in that jury pool is no it's problematic. they will get excused for cause meaning if they say i can be fair i can't be impartial that's one thing. if you impanel someone who says i heard about it read about it but i will give them a fair hearing. certainly there's a potential given the entire dynamic of baltimore that that may not happen. that being there may not be able to be a panel who can be fair but certainly i think the people of baltimore, you know are in a position to evaluate, to sit there in judgment and to do sign a nonprejudicial way. if they can do that there will not be a change of venue. if they can't that's another story. >> we know what happened to the rodney king case 20 years ago when they moved trial out of los angeles to simi valley and the officers got off. in new york city two plain-clothes police officers were attacked and one of those

police officers brian moore was shot in the face. he died today. i guess the question are police officers in greater danger in this country today than they were six months ago, a year ago, five years ago. >> i think so. i think that's very true. if i can go back for one second. rodney king police officers got off. the fbi case convicted them and they went to federal prison the civil rights case. on the officers yes. you have the nypd officers again attack. this one we don't know it was racially motivated. they were just trying to check somebody for a gun who, obviously, had the gun. and then also last week on wednesday we had a white female uniformed officer in a walmart in houston working an off duty detail and a black man came in there with a butcher knife, stabbed her 14 times and told the police was revenge for what happened in baltimore. luckily the customers jumped on him while he was in the final act of stabbing her probably the

fatal wound and she's in critical condition. may still lose one arm from the attack. and the subject is in custody. we have a couple of these already where it's clear that the motive was some type of anti-police -- >> sad story. go ahead. >> i just would like to add. look cops have difficult jobs dangerous jobs. but crime is down in the united states. crime is down against police officers against everyone. so you know obviously we focus on these cases as well we should but i think the bigger picture -- we need to remember that this is a safer place than it was ten years ago. and 20 years ago. all of the united states is. >> let me let joey weigh in. >> look, the point is that we all want safety we want security whether it's against police officers whether it's against someone else. you know any act that's committed against a police officer, if it's for the purpose of just them being police

that's problematic. this will end when the community comes together with the police and that starts wolf with tissue of trust. it starts with tissue of mutual respect. it starts with empathy and starts with an understanding that they have to work together. the police and the community if as jeffrey says crime is down if it's to go down even further and that's the goal to have both the police need the community and the community certainly need the police. so that gap has to be bridged and bridged soon if we move forward in a way that's constructive. >> as a country we got a work to do to fix all of this. joey tom, guys thanks. break being news coming up next. new information about an attack in texas, possible links to isis. plus a gospel choir rapping eminem. what's the unlikely tie to the republican presidential contest?

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more breaking news tonight. federal agents have been searching the homes shared by two gunmen behind an attack in texas looking for possible ties to terrorists. one of the men apparently had post ad tweet pledging loyalty to isis leaders and the two were killed by a police officer after they opened fire after an event featuring controversial drawings of the prophet muhammad. what are you learning pamela? >> reporter: wolf we're learning from sources that one of the two gunmen, else in theton

simpson had been on the fbi's radar for years but there was no indication that they had been planning an attack here even though just a couple of hours before they arrived here by car one of them sent an ominous tweet. investigators searched the arizona home shared by elton simp and soufi. >> they were there to shoot people. ♪ "god bless america" ♪ >> the incident unfolded quickly at a controversial art exhibit showing cartoons of the prophet muhammad. the two men pulled up to the parking lot in a dark colored sedan. a police officer and security guard stepped out of the car. the attackers both in bullet proof vests jumped out of their car with assault rifles and opened fire. the unarmed guard was shot in

the ankle. >> under the fire that he was put under, he did a very good job. and probably saved lives. >> we got to stop this right now. >> the controversial inside were nearing an end when shots were fired. security moved the 200 people attending to a secured location. none of the attendees were hurt. >> we were actually walking out and officer starts blowing a whistle and telling people to get down. >> reporter: simpson is believed to have sent this tweet hours before the attack using the #texasattack. he lichged himself to a british isis leader. simpson was the focus of an fbi terrorism investigation for several years. and in 2011 he was found guilty for lying about his plans to travel to join jihad. an investigation into simpson

was recently re-opened. we have learned that he was very active on social media, corresponding with known isis fighters. we don't know as much about his accomplice. we can tell right now as we speak the fbi and other law enforcement officials are scrambling to figure out the motivation in trying to piece together a timeline here. >> very disturbing stuff. thanks very much. let's talk more about the attack. the positions connection. the former fbi assistant director of law enforcement tom fuentes is still with us. what do you make of the links, potential links to isis in this case >> i think what they are hoping they can establish, what type of links they had through the computer searches phone records, interviews with colleagues and others but the idea is did isis deploy them to go do this shooting? i don't think so. it was a feeble attack i doubt that seriously. the fact that they wanted to do it on behalf of isis pledging loyalty to isis. fbi has cases just like this in

50 states right now involving thousands of people all together making the same pledges, making the same threats, use be social media. they can't follow every person out there that comes up on the radar. >> let me tried the statement, part of the statement that was just released by the homeland security secretary jeh johnson. in reaction to last night's attack we urge that members of the public not misdirect anger and suspicion at those simply because of their religious faith. what do you think? you have a statement there, the full statement. apparently they were alerted to this event that was going on in garland, texas. and they started with local state federal authorities to take steps even before they suspected any violence was going took cure. >> that's right. the federal state and locals were working closely. garland police department which has the jurisdiction in this case worked with the event organizers and the venue, the people that control that venue for months. they planned this thing. what we've seen well-planned

defensive alignment of personnel and then very capable, very well trained police officers at the outer perimeter that stopped these guys right at the checkpoint. we had the paris attack gunmen with automatic weapons, policemen were killed. attack in copenhagen. automatic weapons with the bad guys policemen killed. two guys again assault rifles automatic weapons and one police officer well trained able to take them out. you barely see that in a james bond movie. that's exceptional performance on the part of that officer. >> that police officer is okay. he was hit in the foot. >> flesh wouldn't in the ankle. >> here's what worries a lot of people. these two guys one of them on probation for allegedly being involved supporting terrorism, elton simpson there you see a picture of him. they were able to get body armor, bullet proof vests, assault rifles. what do you make of that? >> this is america. we have 300 million guns on the street.

people can get body armor. it's not illegal here like it is in many countries of the world. they can buy army pierce shells which is not illegal. assault rifles themselves without having to be registered with the government that you have an assault rifle. a lot of those weapons fall into bad hands and fall into hands much people convicted. his only conviction he was on probation for lying to the fbi not the terrorist charge of wanting to go to somalia and file with al shabaab. that's a difficult problem. gangs are able to get guns. everybody thats to get a gun in this country have no problem getting one legally or illegally. >> soufi we don't know much about him. elton simpson was active on social media. you pointed out it's imfor the fbi, federal national law enforcement to be tracking all of those people who may be active on social media, writing, supporting love letters of isis.

>> i know. i think people would be shocked in this country and all over the world to know how many thousands of these people are doing that essentially like you say sending love letters to isis i want to join. the girls that want to be brides. you know the whole thing. the fbi, i can tell you to follow one person. i ran surveillance operation at one point in chicago fbi office. it takes 30 agents to follow one person 24/7. they are following -- there's a million on the terror watch list. do the math. we don't have 30 million fbi agents. >> thanks very much for that analysis. just ahead we'll have more from baltimore on that new incident involving police and a suspect whose gun went off. also is it music to republican's ears. why a gospel choir rapped an eminem hit. an african-american man and woman join the 2016 republican presidential race.

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the 2016 presidential race is more crowded tonight after the entry of two republicans who aren't your typical gop candidates. that would be the former pediatric neurosurgeon ben carson and carly fiorina. our chief congressional correspondent dana bash has more now on their announcements today. how did it go dana? >> both of them are clearly unlikely candidates. but what is so fascinating of

the five republicans who have announced so far we have two hispanics, one black candidate, and one woman. it's a far cry from what we used to see during republican presidential primary debates. a stage almost entirely of white men. >> reporter: a black gospel choir in detroit singing eminem's "lose yourself" and unexpected for a presidential announcement. >> i'm ben carson and a candidate for president of the united states. >> reporter: carly fiorina became the only woman in the 2016 gop field by taking direct aim at the woman on the democratic side. >> our founders never intended us to have a professional political class. >> reporter: a pair of presidential campaign kickoffs notable not because they're front-runners, but because they're even running at all. neither has ever been elected to public office. ben carson, a son of a single mother with a third grade education who became a world

renowned pediatric neurosurgeon. >> i do have a lot of experience in solving problems complex surgical problems that have never been done by anybody before. >> reporter: carson was largely apolitical until this highly political speech just two years ago at the national prayer breakfast, criticizing obamacare. >> we spend a lot of money on health care twice as much per capita as anybody else in the world. and yet not very efficient. >> reporter: that catapulted carson into republican superstardom. but the staunch conservative also became notorious for controversial remarks, arguing homosexuality is a choice. >> a lot of people who go into prison go into prison straight. and when they come out, they're gay. >> reporter: he later apologized. but today owned his gaffes. >> i'm probably never going to be politically correct because i'm note a politician. >> reporter: carly fiorina was the first female ceo of a fortune 100 company, hewlett-packard. her best applause line for conservatives, nominate her and you take the first female president thing off the table

for hillary clinton. >> like hillary clinton, i too have traveled hundreds of thousands of miles around the globe, but unlike mrs. clinton, i know that flying is an active not an accomplishment. >> reporter: but her experience comes with baggage. she laid off thousands, but left hp with more than $20 million in severance. now at this point neither carly fiorina nor ben carson is registering much in the polls at all. a crowded republican field, single digits, wolf barely. but sometimes when there are people who are running who are pretty low in the polls, they don't have a lot to loose so they become more interesting as candidates. >> we'll see if they get a little bump from their republican announcements. let's bring in gloria borger jeff zelin. what do you think his chances are? >> can we give him a couple of hours in the race before we say he is not going to be president? i will do that. look, this is a man who in march was at 9% in the polls. now he is at 4% in the polls. it's way too early, wolf. the thing that he's got going for him is that he is a

well-known fox pundit. he is a world renowned pediatric neurosurgeon. and he is not from washington. put that on one side of the ledger. the other side of the ledger is that he has no legislative experience no executive experience no political experience, no national security experience. and that list gets longer and longer. a bit of a neophyte. >> something he acknowledges. he has said some very controversial things too. >> that too. >> he has. and that is going to be a big issue here. i talked to a couple of establishment republicans who say not this again. in 2012 we saw a rotating cast of republicans who were challenging mitt romney from michele bachmann to newt gingrich to rick santorum. and they pushed the conversation to the right. that's when mitt romney said self-deportation, he was up against the ropes. the biggest impact he could have on the race show he influences the dialogue here. but i get a sense that things are a little bit different this time. republicans seem more interested in winning and more intent on

winning. he will still influence the conversation of this race. >> particularly on the evangelical side. hi see running more as a conservative on the evangelical side. that part of the field is pretty crowded right now. >> it's crowded. >> they tend to split up the electorate right now. >> and carly fiorina can say things about hillary clinton and is saying tough things about her that maybe some of the men can't. >> absolutely. and she understands that that is her space that you're going to have 11 or 12 men on the stage and she is the only woman in there. that's why she is saying let's take it off the table. don't give her the benefit of being the first woman president she can't say that if i'm running. >> shift to bill clinton now. he came out. he did an interview this morning. and he said his foundation, the clinton foundation never did anything knowingly inappropriate. >> that's a little clintonian isn't it? i mean talk about parsing words. there was this interview on nbc news. i thought bill clinton was a

little testy in it a little bit cranky as if he didn't want to be answering all of these questions again. and of course he and hillary have done nothing wrong. and why is everybody attacking them for doing good deeds. they are doing good deeds with the clinton foundation. but there are questions that need to be answered. and i think he was just a little sort of unhappy about having to answer them in that situation. in africa and he said at one point, i talked to hillary about this and she said no nobody would ever do that and do a favor for you and try to get to me. >> she is going to have to answer some questions too, right? >> without a doubt she is. i talked to her advisers. she has no plans on giving a speech on this or doing a formal sitdown interview. but she'll have to answer these as they come up. she'll have to answer to something else too. she is going to testify on the benghazi committee. not entirely related to this. but that is probably going to happen within the next couple of weeks. so she will have to answer so

many questions about all of this swirling around her. >> it's not so much the question that he got about how did you let this happen and so forth. for her it is entirely a quid pro quo question. did she actually do anything to help any of these governments or entities while she was the secretary of state because of the donations. he said no. but it's very -- when you ask the candidate herself. >> and to disclose everything while she was secretary of state. >> can i say one thing? all of these republicans, including carly fiorina and everybody else running is the anti-hillary running against hillary. when you have 10, 12 republicans, whether it's a male or a female ganging up on hillary clinton, if you're looking at it from the other side that may work in clinton's favor. >> at the base. >> get the base rallied up around her, no matter if she is liberal enough or not liberal enough. when you see all these republicans not talking about each other, but talking about her, it could work in her favor.

>> tomorrow mike huckabee will be the sixth republican in this race. more to come. that's it for me. thanks very much for following us on twitter. you can always tweet me @wolfblitzer. sweet the show at cnn. "erin burnett outfront" starts right now. "outfront" breaking news, police and protesters clash in baltimore. the city on edge after a gun goes off during an arrest. we're live on the scene. plus two heavily armed gunmen try to launch an attack on a prophet muhammad cartoon contest. we know their identities. are they connected to a larger international terror network? and on a much lighter note. the royal baby finally has a name. let's go "outfront." and good evening. i'm jim sciutto in tonight for erin burnett. and "outfront" tonigh