the dzhokar tsarnaev trial resumes in just hours, and as the defense tries to convince a jury to spare the life of a terrorist in boston, the white house confirms the attack in texas this weekend was also terror. this is "cnn tonight." i'm don lemon. were the texas shooters under orders from isis? were their lone wolves? and how were more plotters are out there right now? you may be surprised. and also state attorney's marilyn mosby working to build her case in theagainst six police officers. and this prom picture sparking outrage all across the country. i'll speak exclusively to the mother of one of the students she is outraged too, as a matter of fact. and was it the fleecing of

america? why there is a lawsuit now against manny pacquiao. that and much much more in this broadcast. isis though is here and that's where we start tonight. with the terror attack in texas, by radical islamists. cnn's justice correspondent, pamela brown, joins me now with more. so isis claims pamela that they are behind the attack but what are intelligence officials saying? >> reporter: well officials i've been speaking to don, say it's likely that isis is being opportunistic here claiming responsibility. but what is clear here is that the group did, to some degree have an influence on these two gunmen. in fact one official telling us today that it's clear that this was more than just aspirational. don, we've been talking about this concern of isis reaching in through social media and identifying targets and recruiting. one official i spoke to today said we're seeing this play out, in this case. in fact one of the gunmen elton simpson, had openly been talking online with terrorists

overseas. in fact that is why, according to officials i've been speaking an investigation into him was re-opened, because of his ties to terrorists overseas. and in fact one week at least one week before the attack simpson had been tweeting with a terrorist tied to al qaeda and somalia, and here's what he said in his tweet. he said when will they ever learn, talking about the cartoon event, dealing with the prophet muhammad in texas. in response the terrorist wrote, the brothers from "charlie hebdo" did their part. it's time for brothers in the u.s. to do theirs. so there was open communication between one of the gunmen and the terrorists overseas. also don, we're learning more about the timeline and what went into this attack. we've learned that there were two long guns and four handguns bought legally. those weapons were found in the suspect's car. we've learned that that traffic officer and the curt guard here were stationed at the front, were just minutes away from

leaving and this really could have been a massacre don, if they had not been there, if that traffic officer hadn't gone out and used his work pistol to kill those two gunmen. it could have been a lot worse. officials i've been speaking with say that this was a wake-up call. >> absolutely. and what is this that we're hearing that possibly that there was a british isis recruiter playing a key role in this attack pamela? >> reporter: that's right. this british isis fighter named jenade hussein had been tweeting with simpson around the time of the attack. in fact he tweeted right after the attack talking about it. he's a big concern for later and for intelligence officials, because he's seen as a double threat. he's very tech-savvy he's apparently been involved with isis-related packs. and he's also a leader. he's known to be a leader in isis he's very savvy with western media, and he's seen as a recruiting magnet for isis. and so we know simpson was in touch with him and officials want to know who else had been

in touch with him? what other americans are in touch with him, with this british isis fighter, who is believed to be in syria. what other americans could want to sort of carry out what the two gunmen here in phoenix tried to do? and on top of that officials are still trying to figure out the associates of these two gunmen. who else is maybe here in phoenix or elsewhere in the united states or connected to these gunmen who may share the same ideology, and who may want to do the same thing. this is still a very active investigation, don. >> pamela brown on the case for us in phoenix. i want to bring in now mohammad sheik, the author of "undercover jihadii." and also juliette kayyem. good evening to all of you. i'm so happy to have you on. david, you first. was this the first isis-directed attack on u.s. soil? >> we don't know if it was isis-directed yet. it was certainly not the first isis-inspired attack. we know the attacker back in october who attacked some nypd

cops with an ax was inspired by isis. he talked about that on social media. there also was a behead back in oklahoma last year which wasn't a pure act of terrorism, it was also among other things a workplace dispute. but that attacker was clearly also influenced by isis and the method by which he killed his co-workers is rather suggestive. >> julia, this question is for you. if the fbi had an open investigation on elton simpson and the fbi was concerned about this event being a target how were the dots not connected here? >> well because there's a lot of people like him, unfortunately. i mean this is where capacity bumps up against the reality of what's going on with terrorism right now, which is membership and the notion of membership is simply, do you have an ipad? do you have access to the cloud? okay you're a member of isis if you choose to be. so that is sort of the challenge for law enforcement, the fact that there was an open investigation, you have to put in context of how many open

investigations there are. just to give you a sense, our largest database of targeted officials, of people people that we're worried about, it's called tides. it has a million people on it. so if you can imagine the vast amount of activity and that's what the challenge is for the fbi, is where should they dedicate their resources. in hindsight, it's obvious they should have paid more attention to simpson. but at the moment that they have all of this information, they're compareding it to thousands of others. >> yeah moving, isis would like us to think, everyone to think that they're responsible. but if these guys believe, if they just believe they were operating with the blessing or to the benefit of isis isn't that enough to make it an isis attack? isn't that what isis has been encouraging? >> yes, exactly. we get lost in this is it inspired directed? i mean this is the call of isis. pick up a weapon and do anything you can do. and if it's worth it they'll take credit for it. >> was this an intelligence

failure, daveed? >> i think we need to ask that question. i agree with what juliette was saying you have a large number of cases. but this wasn't just a case of connecting the dots these were dots that were flashing bright red. he had a photo of anwar al awlaki and he started tweeting about the women of paradise. he was in touch directly with isis members and terrorists overseas and then 25 minutes before the attack he tweeted that he was about to carry out an attack. so i think that we have to ask the question whether this was an intelligence failure. >> so daveed let's talk a little bit for the about what mubin said. mubin said we've been playing a semantics game here whether it was inspired or they were acting directly what have you? does it really matter?

because there are people in the united states believe they are acting on behalf of isis. that's enough isn't it? >> i think it matters in one way and not in another. i agree with what mubin is saying is part of what isis wants to do is to inspire people and they've given a general order to all of their followers to carry out attacks, and in that sense, all of these attacks are quasi-directed. it's a technical question. you have people like us who follow this stuff in excruciating detail. it matters to us whether it was directed or inspired but inspiring people is a fundamental part of isis' strategy and izsis, unfortunately, is very good at that. >> so juliette we ask all the time what can be done what do you do? how can you stop it? but i'm at wit's end covering it all the time but i'm sure intelligence officials may feel the same way. >> right, so just you know, everyone who's feeling the way that you're feeling, putting all of this in perspective, it is scary, it is horrible but nonetheless, we have to accept a

certain level of these kinds of attacks. it's just the nature of terrorism today. it doesn't -- i'm not consoling anything or excusing everything it's just what we're going to be seeing over the course of time that there was an intelligence focus on this event, because, obviously, this event was heightening alert. meant that the terrorists were killed before they could do more harm. so there is a colonel of good news in this. and then finally, you know we talk about long-term strategies and short-term strategies. they're not mutually exclusive. look we're going to have the operational tactical short-term strategy. you kill them isolate them you look for them and of course also a longer term strategy. the things that people are talking about, about disaffection about isolation, about what isis is able to do and the people they are able to recruit. those are not mutually exclusive, but none of them is easy. neither of them is easy. >> juliette, mubin, daveed

thank you very much for joining us. coming up six baltimore police officers charged in the death of freddie gray but will a jury ever convict them? and i want you to take a look at this prom picture causing an uproar all across the country. you might think that parents would defend them but wait until you hear what one mother says about this picture 7.

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the brand-new u.s. attorney general took a road trip to baltimore today, just days after the city exploded in violence.

loretta lynch met with the mayor and community leaders and even with baltimore police. six officers could go to prison for a long time in the death to have freddie gray. let's discuss now with charles curlette or chad a criminal defense attorney, and lisa bloom is with us as well legal analyst at avo.com. let's talk about the police commissioner. i actually want to play this. he spoke today with cnn's evan perez. let's listen. >> i found out that the state attorney was going on and what she was going to rent probably about ten minutes before she went on. she gave me a phone call and told me what she was about to do and that she was going on live. she told me what the charges were. >> so he says he was surprised at the information he heard in her statement. chad were you surprised? >> i was surprised. i think everyone was surprised. but the troubling thing about that is you would expect the state's attorney to be working much more closely with the police commissioner in

circumstances such as these. >> yeah. do you think the charges are fair lisa bloom? >> absolutely. look we don't know what the evidence is but i'll take miss mosby at her word. she says she has hours of police statements hours of videotape. she has a medical examiner who says this was a homicide. and we can all see the video where freddie gray was taken into custody, shackled at her hands and feet. she said it was a rough ride. there have been multiple other cases in the city of baltimore, where suspects died as a result of a rough ride. the city has been hit with millions of dollars in judgments. so she only needed probable cause. that's the lowest standard we have in the legal system. let's have a trial, the police officers can defend themselves and put forth any evidence they want but certainly, there's enough here for probable cause. >> fair chad? >> no not fair at all, lisa. the problem is the that the case is unraveling already. you would expect the state's attorney to paycheck a measured decision to take the time that's necessary to thoroughly investigate the case. there is one fact in this case

that should be irrefutable and clear. and that is whether or not the knife in freddie gray's pocket was a legal knife or an illegal knife. and the state's attorney took great care to point out when she announced these charges that it was a legal knife and therefore, he was unlawfully arrested. well that part of the case which is the linchpin for so many of the charges, is already falling apart. >> the report today is that it was a legal knife. >> well we haven't seen the knife. we haven't seen it. what we have are legal arguments. and i would expect the defense attorneys for the police officers to come out and make their legal arguments. but just because somebody says something to a newspaper is not conclusive here. what is conclusive we have a healthy, 25-year-old young man who's taken into custody and comes out of the van with a catastrophic spine injury and dies a week later. that's probable cause to say, something went wrong. and she says that multiple times they stopped that van, that freddie gray was begging to get medical help that he was saying he couldn't breathe. >> and the fact that they would

stop the van, lisa. the fact that they would stop the van multiple times is equally consistent with evidence of their concern for his safety. the officer driving the van called for backup to evaluate his condition and in all likelihood they would have gone to seek medical attention, if they hadn't been called to another location. the issue here is the integrity of the process. and a premature rush to judgment to bring the charges before the facts -- >> it's not a judgment. this is not a judgment! she's not the judge! she's not the jury. she's a prosecutor. it is her legal obligation to review all of the facts is and bring charges, where there is probable cause. and i ask you, if you think this was a rush to judgment how about every other case that prosecutors look at for just a couple of days or maybe a week or two or bring charges. are those a rush to judgment against all the other defendants in america, or does that only apply to police? >> the question is when do you have your facts straight lisa. the statement today was not a statement to the press. it was a filing in court by an experienced, excellent attorney

here in baltimore, who went so far as to avert in that pleading to say that based upon what he knows, is that the knife is illegal. and he made a motion in court to be able to inspect it. if that turns out to be the case the announcement of these charges demonstrates that the state's attorney is either dishonest or incompetent. >> no it doesn't! we've got two lawyers arguing two sides of a case! >> okay stand by. let's dig in deeper on these charges. and the driver as we know was charged with the most serious crimes here so she must have some evidence of that. but one officer is charged with murder, three with manslaughter two with assault, among other charges. does that make it harder to convict, by making it hard to pen the blame on any one individual except for the most serious charges with the driver? lisa first. >> no because we haven't seen the evidence. miss mosby has. and what she says is that the driver was in the position to have the most knowledge, that he was reckless.

because he was the one in charge of the car. in charge of that rough ride. that he knew that freddie gray was in the back begging for his life begging for some medical help and he wasn't provided with that medical help. and by the way, it's not a defense to say, we didn't give a dying man medical help or a catastrophically injured man medical help because we were called away to something else. that's not the way it works. police have an obligation to provide that medical care and they didn't give it to him. >> i want yo uhu to respond, chad but i have another question for you after that. >> first of all, if the knife turns out to have been an illegal knife, 11 of the 28 charges can disappear. it is not unusual for an inexperienced prosecutor to charge as many people as they can and bring as many charges as they can >> is that overcharging? >> the standard here lisa -- correct. it is not recklessness. the standard is gross negligence. that means you create a situation -- >> on the murder charge. >> -- likely to cause death -- on the murder charge and on the manslaughter by vehicle and on the involuntary manslaughter the standard is gross

negligence. you create a condition likely to cause death and you consciously ignore that risk in the face of that and driving -- and there is no evidence in this statement of probable cause of a rough ride at all. >> hold right there. hold right there. because there has been reporting, chad that the camera in the back of the van was broken. how would that play into that? does that help the officer's case? >> given that the prosecution carries the burden of proof, more evidence is going to be better for the prosecution. by the same token, if the camera were to depict a relatively smooth and calm ride as was described by the second passenger in the van, then it would be exculpatory and the defense would prefer to have it. >> don, i disagree. listen i prosecute excessive force cases ton ss on the civil side. and in all my cases, it just so happens the camera was broken the recording device was broken. if we're going to have cameras this america as we should for every police department it should be part of their training

and part of their responsibility to ensure that their equipment is in good working order. and i think police have to be held accountable when those cameras are just miraculous broken in cases where someone gets injured or killed. >> that's going to be it. ladies and gentlemen, you just saw what's going to happen in the courtroom. i feel like i just took you there with these two. appreciate your expertise. up next driving while black. across the country, complaints grow about people being pulled over. this man pulled out his phone. >> my brother is being put in handcuffs. we're pulled over for no reason. he still has not identified why he's pulled us over. if you can't put a feeling into words, why try? at 62,000 brush movements per minute philips sonicare leaves your mouth with a level of clean like you've never felt before. innovation and you. philips sonicare. you're finally here. long way from the sandlot. first game in the majors?

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driving while black. it is a shared belief by many drivers of color that they are racially profiled and pulled over for no other reason. here's ryan you thinkng's report. >> that day i was driving down -- >> reporter: pastor ira preaches the gospel on sundays in chicago. and one busy weekend working his way home from a wedding, a

funeral, and a church member's the birthday party, the pastor is behind the wheel of his mercedes and sees flashing blue lights. >> i heard a siren and looked around. a guy started dropping f-bombs. it was the police. >> were you startled when he first pulled up behind you? >> absolutely i was. absolutely i was. >> reporter: the longtime community activist said the traffic stop quickly took a strong tone. the officer writing him a ticket for using his cell phone while driving, something the pastor denies. the ticket was later dismissed and pastor actry complained to chicago pd about the officer's behavior. but the police found nothing wrong. >> as real as i know racial profiling is this was the last place i would have ever expected it to happen. and that was in a community where i have a lot of work that i do. >> reporter: across the country, african-americans complain and often talk about being pulled over for no apparent reason.

there's even a term for it. dwb, driving while black. in a series of not-so-funny tweets comedian chris rock documented three separate traffic stops in the span of just seven weeks. rock says, stopped by the cops again. wish me luck. none of this is shocking to cnn contributor elsie granderson. >> i was pulled over in ferguson while covering ferguson. >> reporter: granderson believes more training is needed for officers and talks about the anxiety of being pulled over often by police who seem to be on edge. >> the fact is we've been talking about this for decades now. and it doesn't seem as if the talk has got us to anything in terms of policy to really change the way things are. >> reporter: there's an app for dwb after a police stop turned deadly in portland oregon a couple of lawyers create there had guide for how to behave after being pulled over. >> what the app does it provides the information about their rights under the u.s. constitution it shows them how

those interactions might go. >> reporter: how big is the problem? federal stats show that african-american drivers are about 31% more likely to get pulled over than white drivers. they're also more likely to be searched and ticketed. >> when a neighborhood feels that the only kind of law enforcement help they get is the targeting of innocent people you know that really creates a wall between the community and the police. >> a wall that many like pastor actry want to see taken down one traffic stop at a time. ryan young, cnn, chicago. >> i want to bring in now charles blow op-ed columnist, you've been a victim of dwb, driving while black? >> yes. i don't have any adult african-american friends who have not. and in fact you know, sometimes, it is, you know just an unpleasant experience and some people relate really horrifying -- >> i haven't been -- in my youth, but older, i don't drive as much by the way.

but, you know, it happens. you describe these moments of racial profiling as a club that black men are inducted into and you were inducted into it at the ripe old age of 18. >> exactly. and i think a lot of people experience you know, my experience was a really horrific one, where, you know, an officer actually pulled a gun and, you know threatened to kill a friend of mine at the traffic stop. i mean he said i could do it and nobody would say anything. and i think what ends up happening is that in those moments, even if it's only one moment out of 40 years, it is that moment and that trauma that stays with you and colors your perception of authority and police forever. and all of the other better more collegial interactions with police can never trump the trauma of those moments. >> and people may be wondering at home where's the other person on the other side that says this never happens and it's all trumped up. there is no other side to it. here's what the justice

department stats say. they say, driving while black is real. more black drivers or is panghispanic drivers were pulled over. police say, they're 31% more likely to be pulled over than a white driver. 23% more likely to be pulled over than a hispanic driver. it speaks for itself. it's real. >> and here's your problem that the last person in the piece was kind of getting at, is that it doesn't actually -- there's the issue of diminishing returns. it doesn't actually make neighborhoods safer. >> it makes more money for them. >> but as a senator's project said in a report last year it actually makes communities less safe because it impedes police officers' ability to do their jobs when they actually do have a case they are pursuing. when people start saying well they won't talk to us a lot of that is built on experience of having really negative experiences with the police officers so that you do not trust them and you do not want to cooperate. and that actually hurts communities, rather than makes them -- >> as we saw in ferguson and

other places they use it to boost the coffers of the city. >> absolutely. >> it makes more money. you actually said it makes neighborhoods, residences excuse me cities municipalities less safe. i want to get your reaction another potential driving wile black incident. this is a passenger recording a traffic stop. and by the time he hit record in this two-minute clip his brother was outside of the car and had been handcuffed already. watch. >> now i'm being perceived as a threat because we're being pulled over for absolutely no reason. am i being played under arrest? >> you're not under arrest. >> what's -- >> i'm asking for the reason why we're being pulled over? you have still failed to identify why you've pulled us over -- >> i'm not pulling you -- >> come on out! >> why are you pulling me out of

my car? >> sir, take your hands off of me! i have not did nothing. i have not did nothing. i have no weapons. i have no weapons. >> okay. >> you have no reason to pull me out of the car. this is assault. >> turn around. turn around. turn around. >> you see this? >> you see this? excessive force. >> so he was asking why -- you saw why he was being pulled over. he asked why he was being arrested. they didn't really say anything. i think they gave him some relatively minor infractions. and then they were just released. what's your reaction? >> and it looks like he's on the passenger side of the car. so even if you know, if someone else is driving, there's nothing -- >> his brother was driving. >> what could you possibly have done you know, in terms of traffic, on the passenger side of a car? these are the kinds of instances that i think cause the trauma. and these are the kinds of incidents that get passed around between black man to black man, in barbershops, where people discuss this sort of thing, and

even for the people who have not yet experienced it or maybe will never experience it they experience it kind of survey caresly. >> the cops say that he was driving slowly in high-crime area. the aclu said it's clearly a case of profiling. >> well then that begs the question at what speed do you need to drive through the high-crime area? do i need to be going 80-mile-per-hour to get out of it? it's a ludicrous idea right? what does that mean? would you drive the speed limit through the high-crime area otherwise you're committing a crime and adding to the crime in the high-crime area. >> the police department says they can't comment, because it's an active investigation. >> thank you, sir. >> appreciate it. coming up prom outrage. what were these students thinking when they posed for a prom picture -- yeah. with a confederate flag. wait until you hear what one mother has to say. she joins me exclusively next.

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it is prom season and students across the country are posing for pictures to commemorate the big event. but this picture has sparked

some outrage. on their way to the high school prom in parker colorado on saturday these students posed with a confederate flag and guns. when one horrified mom asked her son what he thought the flag stood for, he told her "dukeck dynasty" and the rural life. that mom joins us now. she's asked us not to use her name but we'll call her stacy. how are you doing? >> i'm doing fine. >> did you give him a dressing down? >> oh, absolutely. he was in class and i texted him and i said get your nice little body out of that warm little seat and come home and we've got a lot of talking to do. so he came home and, i wish i could have been like that mom in baltimore that whacked her kid upside the head right there, but he wasn't in my presence. soy just calmed down a little bit before he got home. >> how'd you find out? >> a local tv reporter called me. yes. it's amazing what social media

can do and how quickly they can get back to parents. >> so when i introduced you, you said you asked your son, what he knew about the flag what it meant. and i think it was like "duck dynasty" and the rural life. what did he mean by that? >> right. where we live it borders on a very wealthy suburb county and then there's also the rural area to our city. and he just thinks it supports you know the country type of lifestyle, where you can with a little bit of a rebel. >> yeah. >> and we prior to this, he had been hanging out with a group, his sophomore year -- he's a senior -- and they were seen plyingply ing flying the confederate flag, and we warned him, stay away from them. the prom he attended he does

not attend that school he had attended that school and we got him out of that school to get him out of a situation like this. >> so had you explained to him before and did you explain the history of the confederate flag to him? >> oh, yes. i mean, we you know, two years ago, he didn't know the significance of it. and we said do you not know the emotions that you will bring forth, the hurt that you will bring forth by having that flag flown. and so he knew what we felt about it. i think in his mind though and these kids' minds, they just think it's a sign of being a rebel and being a high school rebel. >> have you spoken to any of the other parents whose kids are in that photo? >> no i have no contact with these parents. in fact i didn't even know my son had hooked up -- i don't know if this is the same group two years prior that we had broken him away from or if this is a new group. so my -- i was thinking he was just going as a single date with

a girl that he had just become friends with. >> yeah. there is a girl in the photo, she appears to have dark skin are there many minorities where, or is it fairly homogenous? >> no i would say it's a fairly white area where we live. >> very you know, it's a very affluent area. i don't think, you know, i wouldn't say racism exists i just don't think these kids have any indication as to how painful the black history is. i think, you know, i really don't think they have any indication what that flag can do. >> so what's your message -- >> and how quickly it can divide -- my son still is clueless. he says i don't understand what the big deal is. >> so what's your message to your son, though these kids and to the country that are dealing with so many issues of race right now, it's really on the front page of this country. what do you say? a lot of people listening to you. well you know, do your best to

explain to your kids truly, how painful this is to people. we're catholic and when the crucifix goes into art museums and is desecrated we're absolutely mortified. and this is what this flag signifies to other people in the united states. i mean it's that level of shock. and so the fact that we experience,, you know -- you've got to kind of look at that and see where you're absolutely mortified and just remember that people are mortified by this flag being flown. >> and we probably need to address it more in schools. thank you, stacy. >> okay thank you very much. >> good job, good job. you and the mom in baltimore as well. >> okay thank you very much. >> all right. joining me now is mark lamont hill, cnn political commentator, and ben ferguson. mark does this photo offend you? >> yes, it unsettled me and offends me and conjures a whole

history of white supremacy, violence this isn't an abstract and metaphorical thing, violence against black bodies. i understand the confederate flags means different things for different people. and there are people in the south who it just means good old days but the good old days wasn't so good to black people in our nation. it troubles me people still have it. >> i doubt they had as much context. listening to this mom, i believe her, when the kids say, i don't understand why it's a big deal. she's definitely going to teach them why it's a big deal. was it young stupid kids being young and stupid? absolutely. should it cost them a summer internship or a summer job or not allow them to get into college? no. sometimes kids take really stupid pictures. and there are a lot of people i'm sure, who are watching this tonight who took really stupid pictures before there was social media. and they never had to deal with the backlash. >> she said she spoke to him about it a couple years ago, though ben. >> i'm saying put it in perspective. these kids look like they're doing the 007 sign.

and here's the other thing. the young women who are in the picture, i highly doubt they were doing it based on race. they were probably doing it because it was prom and someone said let's take a cool picture, and they were really stupid with it. >> that's part of the problem, the extraordinary privilege of white privilege and white supremacy is that you don't have to know that the things you do offend other people. all you do is occupy your own bubble. >> but mark it may not be race as much as you're trying to make it into race. it could actually be that there are younger people in america today that aren't obsessed about racial issues or being bigoted or racist as you're implying -- >> yeah, they're called white people ben. >> but not every white person mark doesn't like black people. >> that's not my point. >> and not every black person that's young and takes the a picture like this is a racist or was trying to be a racist mark. >> ben, you're disputing a point thyme not that i'm not making. my point is irrespective of your intention, actions have

consequences. if these kids had held up a swastika and said -- >> you don't know -- >> let me finish. >> you don't know if they're white privilege. >> no i'm talking about the privilege of whiteness. being able to do things that are offensive to folk and not care or not have to know what it means. if these kids held up a swathsstika and said we don't know what means, despite the fact that they're ignorant to what means, it's still deeply offensive to my jewish brothers and sisters and they need to be made aware of it. let's have that same context for everybody, for jewish brothers and sisters, for gay brothers and sisters, for black and brown brothers and sisters. let's have the same idea for everyone. i believe in second chances. i'm not saying these kids' lives need to be ruined but let's not say, they didn't know so it doesn't matter. >> here's the thing -- mark here's the difference. i don't think that everything comes down to a racial narrative or a conspiracy or a -- >> i didn't say that. >> or a white privilege. i think that you -- >> that's white privilege.

>> -- can actually have people that are younger that aren't growing up in a world where everything to them is about race. that's a positive thing. i actually believe that some young kids are actually just young and naive. and that could actually be a good thing, they're not all obsessed with the racial issue. >> you can't -- it's like that mom said that is deeply offensive to a lot of people and her son should be well aware of it and so should the kids in the photo. they said that this -- >> and i agree with the mom. >> they compared this to -- they said it was hunting and living the rural life fishing, "duck dynasty." that's what it represented to them. that's ignorance. isn't ignorance just as bad on some levels? >> but don, is it possible is it possible that these actual young teenagers that were going to prom were just trying to take a picture and didn't understand the context -- >> but ben, but ben -- >> -- is it possible? >> yes! >> that kids can actually be stupid. >> ben you're arguing a point i'm not making. i agree with you. i'm conceding for a moment that they didn't know. i'm not saying that it was a conspiracy.

i don't think these kids were sitting in a room twirling their mustaches deciding how they were going to find black people. let's assume they're -- >> they're not breaking any laws. shouldn't if they really wanted to and if that's how they felt they should be able to? >> for the last same days all these free speech amendment folks, these first amendment advocates are picking fights with folks who aren't making fights. we all agree you have a right to do it. this entire conversation is premised ton edd on the fact that you're allowed to do it. and even if you have a right to do it doesn't mean you should do it. >> what about taking it back? remember about taking the n-word back. kanye tried to do it. what if people didn't become so offended by it. >> that's up to me though. that's not up to them. i wouldn't tell a gay person that i'm taking back a gay epithet. white people don't get to tell me i'm taking back a word that's offended by me. >> is anybody offended by the

guns? >> nah. >> this is the big thing, don, maybe we are moving forward in the issue of race where they actually aren't -- >> okay. i talked about the guns. >> my question -- >> people might just be this ignorant. >> i love you, ben, but you just said somebody holding up a white -- >> i'll let them talk. >> i'm sorry, don. somebody holding up a confederate flags and guns is not a sign of racial progress in 2015. i think it's the opposite. >> okay, y'all. done! we're going to talk about manny pacquiao coming up. did they pull the wool over everyone's eyes? there's a lawsuit now. they're custom made trains. you can't get any better than that. siemens trains are not your grandparent's technology. they're something that's gonna change the cities we live in today. i find it so fascinating how many people ride this and go to work every single day. i'm one of the lucky guys.

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you know what i'm in the wrong business and you probably are too, because floyd mayweather and manny pacquiao collectively earned about $300 million saturday night's fight. that's $87,000 a minute. but now pacquiao's camp says he had a shoulder injury. two people in nevada are suing him, allegedly he's saying he defrauded ticket buyers tv viewers, and gamblers. back with me, marc lamont hill and ben ferguson.

take a deep breath and you're okay now? >> we're good! >> it turns out the fight of the century probably wasn't a fair fight. manny pacquiao had a bad shoulder injury marc. pretty much no one knew about it. everyone who paid for the fight said they were cheated out of their money? >> every boxer that loses says i had hurt my leg in practice i hurt my jaw, i'm dizzy, you know what i mean? here's the truth, right? manny pacquiao was out-boxed -- >> did you say truth? >> yes, as a senior black correspondent here at cnn, i can say truth. >> senior black commentator. >> right. manny pacquiao was out-boxed and he lost. at the end of the fight, manny pacquiao said i thought i won the fight. in his mind he won the fight. boxers are always delusional. after that they start to blame injuries. the truth of the matter is, a lot of boxers go into fights with injuries. a lot of players go into super bowl finals with injuries. that's what it means to be an

athlete. >> but $100 is $100 the you paid for it. and you know, if you think it's not fair some people want their money back. >> for what? >> you were defrauded by both fighters because it wasn't a fight, it was a big dance. it was a big -- it was a big, pathetic dance where they all ran around the ring, kind of smiling and grinning and taunting and throw a couple of punches. it was a horrible fight. if there's anything you should get a refund for, it should be for the fact that it was a terrible fight. >> ben, i agree with you. and it made me long for the old days when we used to watch ali and frazier on broadcast television nobody had to pay -- >> how old are you, don?! >> i'm old. i am the senior black anchor on cnn. but what happened? maybe if people didn't have to pay for it people wouldn't be so outraged. >> now you know what this is all about, i'll go conspiracy people will say, they'll fight again. here's your reason oh, i had a

bad shoulder. then i'll rehab it and have surgery, then we'll have the fight that everyone wants to see, two grown men that are taking us all to the woodshed. >> first of all, boxers don't get better as they wage. manny pacquiao has been put on his wallet several times before this fight. if he didn't beat mayweather this time he's not going to get better. there's not going to be a rematch. >> i'm not disputing it with. but both of these guys want to get one more payday out of this. >> how much money do they need? >> if your crew is called the money team you probably need a lot. but he'll try to run out 50 and 0. this was this wasn't a mike tyson fight? this is a classic floyd mayweather fight. he out-boxed you, throws his punch, moves. >> but also isn't it his production company that is doing this? and they want to go all around so they can make feel feel like they got their money's worth.

as ben said they were dancing around and they wanted to -- they excluded our correspondent which i'm so upset about it. was it's a big show. >> don the best thing that came out of floyd winning the fight was the internet joke that was going around that said how dare you say that i am you know, 48-0. you forgot about the three fights when i beat himy wife. >> oh, boo. >> boo! >> i'm just saying -- >> no domestic violence jokes! >> yeah. >> hey, no it's not a joke. it's serious. >> i know why do you joke about it? >> no -- >> stick to congressmen at a timing and leaving the joking -- >> who the guy actually is. and he hit his wife. and that's the bottom line here is that he's a guy that shouldn't get paid all this money. he should be in jail. >> then you shouldn't watch the fight, ben! >> i didn't pay for it! >> if people don't watch it that won't happen. >> all right, bye-bye! see y'all! >> bye, don lemon. >> we'll be right back.

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. that's it for us tonight. if you only knew what happened in the commercial break. i'm don lemon. i'll see you back here tomorrow night. "a.c. 360" starts right now. good evening and thanks for joining us. we begin tonight with breaking news and a troubling question. was the attack on that