welcome to another live hour of 360. we're in philadelphia where just under 24 hours ago an amtrak train with 250 people on board crashed. you are looking at live pictures from the scene. the ntsb said all but two cars have been removed from the tracks and they will stay on until tomorrow. the numbers injured may increase. and those involved and investigators are still trying to make sense what happened and making sure they have everybody accounted for. the engineer is 32 years old, his name is brandon bostian from

new york. and the engineer put the brakes on moments before and that investigation is in the early stages. there are questions and the possibility of more victims, as i said, at the crash site and that has not been ruled out at this point. over the next hour we'll hear from survivors and get the latest on the investigation and explore whether more safety is needed but first more on the devastation that occurred here last night. take a look. >> it was just before 9:30 on tuesday night before the amtrak train derailed, catapulting passengers and sending seven train cars and engineers off their tracks. >> notify amtrak to shut down the entire northeast corridor. >> amtrak 188 departed the 30th street station at about 9:10 bound for new york with 238 passengers and five crew on

board. less than five minutes into the ride, passengers say they felt something was wrong. >> and you feel this really -- boom -- and you don't think that much except a train doesn't bump and the next thing is a harder shake and then by the third time you knew that the train was derailing. >> the surveillance footage at 9:23 briefly captured the train passing by and moments flashing can be seen as it hurdles off the tracks. >> i saw so many head injuries and bloody faces and people were really injured, they were thrown out of their seats, there was nothing i could do to help, i had nothing but to talk to the people. >> the train was traveling the northeast corridor, the busiest rail area with over 2,000 daily trains and over 11 million

traveller traveled in 2014 alope. >> it is a disastrous mess and never seen anything like this in my life. >> the sharp turn had called for a speed of 50 miles per hour but by this afternoon the ntsb confirmed a speed double that. >> the train was traveling at approximately 106 miles per hour and three seconds later when the data to the recorders terminated the train speed was 102 miles per hour. >> causing many to question if the crash was due to human error. and jason carroll joins me now and drew griffin. drew, you've been looking at the engineer and you have new information. >> we know he's been an engineer nor about 4.5 years and there is questions about whether he is cooperative or not. we have new information from rene marsh our transportation

correspondent and said he was approached last night and he said he couldn't recall his speed. they went back to him today and brought him into the office, to talk about it and he came with a lawyer and woe not answer any questions. the ntsb said they are going to try to talk to him, i believe, tomorrow. but right now he is not talking. initially he told authorities he could not recall the speed he was traveling. >> and according to the ntsb official i talked to before it is amtrak policy to glif a -- give a blood test or a breathalyzer. >> right. they want to see if there is anything in an engineer's system and they obviously want to talk to him and they will do a test of the emergency break system to see if it was a mechanical failu failure. >> a runaway train. >> right. but the key part is taking to the engineer and the ntsb made it clear they have to talk to

him. >> the mayor came out drew with critical comments of the engineer, saying regardless it was reckless for him to 106 miles per hour and the ntsb said the mayor went too far and he shouldn't have said that and there are any number of possibilities but -- [ sirens ] -- we have an ambulance passing by and when you look at a speed at over 100 miles per hour around a turn that you are supposed to be going 50 miles per hour, the question is why was that train going so fast? >> it is exact. it is like on the freeway. when you have the speed lowered and you have the sign that the truck is tipping. the engineer will pull you off the -- the energy will pull you off the train. and the engineer must have known that but the question is why are you going 106 miles per hour at this point and if there was a problem on the track or the

train, everything is accentuated by the speed. >> and the speed before that turn was 80 miles per hour and the emergency brake pulled three or four seconds before the derailment itself. >> and there were questions were emergency alarms sounding and dw this -- did this engineer or anyone for that matter respond to those alarms. and that is anything thing they are looking at also. >> and they have the black boxes and there is a forward camera they are analyzing but it is still early in the investigation, drew. >> right. and the ntsb approaches this differently than the mayor, the mayor wants answers right away and they are looking for crime and the ntsb is trying to figure out what the problem was with the train so it can be fixed and not repeated. and i want to add a little piece for the investigation, to make

sure he wasn't on the phone, there is a search warrant trying to get on his phone, information that might have been incriminating or explains what is going on. >> and there was a train incident in the past where a train engineer was believed to be on the phone. >> that is right. we're speaking beyond my knowledge here, but i also believe that engineers on amtrak are not supposed to even have phones. >> and the bottom line is they want to make sure he wasn't distracted by anything, whether it be a phone or anything else for that matter. >> tired or sleep or whatever it may have been. again, a lot we don't know. and the other key piece people are going to look at is the safety devices and we took about this in the last hour and the safety devices that are in place, in trains, on tracks in a number of other areas throughout the country but not on this stretch of track. >> right. it is a system and it has an acronym, and from what i

understand, it is able to slow the train down automatically without the engineer involved so if the system senses you are going too fast, you are coming around this turn at 100 miles per hour and long before two seconds ago, you could slow down and if this was in place, this accident wouldn't have happened. >> and it is supposed to be in mace by the end of the year and now there is talk in congress i understand based on pressure from a number of groups to extend the deadline on that, some as far as 2020, that it all has to be in place in the country. and we'll see if that has an impact on that. drew griffin and jason carroll, thank you as always. and the train was going 106 miles per hour when it went into the curve and kate was on the train and a frequent rider and noticed it seemed to be going faster than normal.

and kate joins me on the phone. thank you for joining us. i know you were injured in the crash. you had a concussion and you injured your arm but how are you doing now? >> i was banged up, but things are going better now. >> i hate to ask you to relive this, but can you walk us through, if it is okay, what you remember. >> sure. i remember it very vividly. i remember kind of making a mental note to myself like i was on the oscella and the car started to shake and all of a sudden there was the sound of crushing and grinding metal and all i could do really was hold on to the front of my seat and concentrate on staying conscious and then fell -- a man fell on

the top of my arm toward the right and when everything kind of settled i was able to find at the front of the car an opening and able to jump about five feet down to get off the tracks and into the brush next to the crash. >> which car were you in? >> i think i was maybe the second or third from the last car. so i was toward the back of the train. >> and do you have any sense of time in all of this, how quickly -- how long it all lasted, from the time you heard the first sounds that something was amiss to when you -- when everything came to settle? >> um, not really. it all went very fast and very slowly at the same time. but if i had to guess, maybe within the span of like 30 seconds maybe. >> and how were people around

you? >> there was some screaming, there was mostly in my car, we weren't all the way tipped over, there was just conversation about is everybody okay and where the hammers to break through the windows were and does anybody need any help. and i did hear a woman scream her leg was broken and a couple of other people's heads had been hit by windows or whatever. >> do you recall how quickly rescue workers started to arrive and how did you end up getting treatment? how long did that take? >> um, i think they made started showing up within ten minutes. i ran -- i saw that we had crashed near what looked like oil tankers to me and so i started to run the other way down the tracks to try to find someone, and maybe about 300 yards away there was a small

building where people were and maybe about ten minutes after i found those people, i heard the first sirens. and a few police officers came over to myself and two other people who were with me and transported us to temple university hospital. >> it has to be so bizarre to one moment you are on a train doing your regular routine and the next you are outside of this train having lived through this crash and running down the train tracks? >> right. it -- the shock hasn't really kind of set in. i don't really necessarily believe that any of this actually happened. but i -- it was just the adrenalin rush that came with it, and my elbow didn't start hurting until about 15 minutes after everything had happened, once i starred to calm down a

bit. >> a lot of times a dren lynn will mask pain and then only later do you realize your injuried. kate, thank you for talking to us. and i wish you well and thank you very much. >> thank you very much: >> kate rabber. coming up, speed of 106 miles per hour and should be at 50. and we'll take a closer look at what that means. we'll be right back. we all enter this world with a shout,

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frank ford junction here in philadelphia was the site of a train disaster more than 70 years ago. this was back in 1943, a train packed with 500 people on board went off the tracks killed 79 people. as investigators look at last night's derail, it was

determined to be traveling at 106 miles per hour, more than twice the speed limit for the curve it was on at the time. and tom foreman on more on what that means and that type of track configuration. >> hey, anderson. investigators knew to look at excessive speed early on because of things like the surveillance video. if you watch the train rushing buy and you know the length of the locomotive and the cars you can calculate it was going much faster than it should have been doing just 200 yards short of where it crashed. and let's bring that in and talk about that. and the locomotive is heavy, about 97 metric tons, toward a quarter million pounds there. if it is operating at the correct speed, at about 50 miles per hour as it should be in this area, all of the physics will keep it on the track even though

there is force being exerts toward the outside of the curve just like in the corner of a car. and you push this up to 100 miles per hour and you put force toward the outside there. and now if the center of the gravity is low enough, this might stay on the tracks but what is the passenger cars back there. the physics may be very different in this area because of the center of gravity and how it is riding down the rails. and we know that passengers said it felt like it was flying up off the rails, we've seen it before in spap, this train was supposed to be going 50 miles per hour and it went more than 1 # 00 miles per hour and you can see the cars slung off the track behind the locomotive and then pulled off by them. and all of that is why investigators knew from the very start they he to look carefully at the idea that trap was just

going too fast. >> a lot to learn. thank you. tom, foreman. a short time i spoke with robert sum walt of the ntsb. take a look. >> the engineer, on a case like this, if -- is it correct to say he has refused to answer questions? >> well we haven't even contacted him yet. >> that was a statement made by the philadelphia police. >> we have not and routinely, anderson, we would not reach out to somebody within 24 hours of an accident. we want to give them a chance to convalesce and get their thoughts together. ideally we want to interview somebody within a few days of accident. >> a breathalyzer or a blood test, is that something you would ask the police to do. >> in this case, amtrak is required by federal law to conduct that testing. >> so that would have automatically been done. >> it should have been done and

i have no reason to think it hasn't been done. >> and it is early on in the investigation. where are you at? what are you doing now? is the train still there. has it been removed. the track has been released to amtrak already. >> all by two of the rail cars have been moved to a secure facility to conduct a examation and they are there because tomorrow we want to do a 3-d examination after we've left here. >> and has everyone been accounted for on board of the train. >> i don't want to sound impersonal, but -- >> that is not your lane. >> we care about others but the office of emergency management of philadelphia will answer that. >> and i'm not going to ask you to speculate about what happened and if you did come out and say at 106 miles per hour and the emergency brake was applied

three or four seconds before the crash bringing it down to 102 miles per hour and there are only a number of reasons why a train is traveling that fast, a runaway train, a engineer not paying attention. the safety mechanisms in place elsewhere, it does not exist in this part of the track. >> that is right. and generically that is called positive train control, amtrak called it aceis. >> and is that on board the train. >> well it depends. ptc is what congress has mandated to be installed. it knows where the train is and what the signals are signaling. >> and if it was present here it could automatically slow a train down. >> that is the intention of one of the four functions of positive train control, is to prevent derailment due to speed.

>> and how do you go about -- what are the next steps for the next couple dafz. i know your investigators will be on-site for the next couple of weeks but the investigation goes on longer than that. >> that is correct. and we are to connect the perish evidence, like the train cars they are being moved, the rail will be rerailed and witness and survivor interviews can change over time so we want to get here and collect as much as that as we can so when we leave here in about a week, we have what we need or a plan for obtaining everything we need. >> is there a commonality within the train crashes that the ntsb investigates, i know you investigated a number of them this year alone. are there common denominators or things that you -- particularly look for. >> well the accident this is year don't seem to have common denominators with this particular one. but in 2013 there was a

derailment up in the bronx and it i was situation -- it was a situation where a train was going too fast and it derailed and claimed four lives and there is a commonality there and i mention that because positive train control will prevent that accident and that is why the ntsb is investigated in it and the congress has mandated it. >> and mandated it for the end of the year and there are some pushing for the extension of 2020. >> there are various bills out there, until 2017, 18, 2020. >> it will be interesting if these make any difference in that. i appreciate you taking the time. >> thank you fog being here. >> sorry it is under these sort of circumstances. >> thank you. >> and this questions how safe train travel is.

joining me jeffrey toobin and david sousie and a ntsb train member. and now we know it was going through the turn and there are questioning and what are the factors that you as an investigator would want to look at right now? >> well, you know, 11 or 12 minutes out of the station to be going that fast, i would want to know and the recorder should tell us that, just what the throttle settings were. did he go full throttle when he left the station? how did we get that fast in a short period of time. there are people that have started to look at the performance of the locomotive which we published and to see if it is capable of pulling those trains in that distance, that speed and what he had to do to get there. that is one piece. there are people looking at the electronic control arm of the

train to see did we have a runaway train was it the acceleration not under the operator's control. >> and that can be determined -- >> yes, that can be determined. and locomotives today are mini computers. there are computers all over them, running systems and we have a memory on these computers. not designed to be part of an investigation, but if you have nonvolatile memory, it will retain whatever settling it had, and data it contained after the power was removed so that is another possible source of information that the ntsb can use to tell the reactions of the operator in the 15 minutes or less period of time. >> john, can the engineer decide not to answer any questions for the ntsb or obviously for police? he apparently now has a lawyer and didn't want to answer questions with police today. if the ntsb goes to him tomorrow

to ask him questions, does he have to answer? >> no, he doesn't. we still have a free country here. so he can take the fifth and refuse to. of course it doesn't it look -- it doesn't look good for him or amtrak, but he has the right not to answer the questions. >> and the fact that he pulled the emergency brake before the train derailed you, what does that tell you? >> it strongly suspects i may not have been alert after he left the station. that is the scenario we had in new york not too long where the sleep apnea problem reared his ugly head in that conductor. so those are questions that will have to be asked and answered and hopefully this individual will have a change of heart and tell the story. >> jeff, if it is determined

that the engineer, brandon bostian is at fall, does it become a criminal investigation at this point? >> i'm sure it already is. and there is definitely an investigation. and there is a history. and several people have mentioned where william rockefeller had sleep apnea and that was clearly the cause of the accident that took four lives. that ultimately did not end in a criminal prosecution. the bronx district attorney decided there was not enough evidence to pursue a manslaughter case. but early fler 2013 there what as a staten island ferry accident where 11 people died, an awful accident and there was a manslaughter case against the driver of the ferry and he got 15 months in prison. and whether there is a case that comes out of it, you can't know

at this point. >> and david, if it comes to passenger trains on safety, there was talk about putting measures in place in 2007, what happened to that? >> well the measures in 2007, what was discussed here and in the u.k., were to put seat belts on the trains and what came back was surprising, one, if they put seat belts on the trains, the seats are built to be crash worthy so the decision was made they had to decide between cash worthy seats that could put the passenger in danger if they fell forward because it could break your neck or put seat belts in. >> what is a crash worthy seat? [ overlapping speakers ] >> why would thatten danger a passenger? >> because if the crash worthy seat in front of you doesn't break away, like they do in

airplanes, they will sustain themselves, then they are solid backed and if you do fall forward with the seen around your waist, it will hit your head and your break your neck. and they never talk about it as a breakaway seat as a crash worthy seat and i think it is time to look at this again with new technology. >> david -- [ overlapping speakers ] >> go ahead. >> i think it is important that we do take a step back and look at the inside of a passenger rail car the same way we look at aircraft. it is a system. it is not just a seat belt, not just a seat, not just the floor tracks, it is the entire capsule, if you will, and we have to design that capsule for survive ability. >> including the windows for escape ability as well, john afterwards. that is a good point.

>> a good point to leave it on. john goalie, david sousie, jeff toobin as well. and survivors describing the terrible moments after the train hurled off the tracks plus the injuries that many of them sustained. ugh... ...heartburn. did someone say burn? try alka seltzer reliefchews. they work just as fast and are proven to taste better than tums smoothies assorted fruit. mmm... amazing. yeah, i get that a lot. alka seltzer heartburn reliefchews. enjoy the relief.

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philadelphia where just over 24 hours ago amtrak train number 188 true off the curve -- flew off the curve at 106 miles per hour. seven people are confirmed dead and hundreds are injured and some unaccounted for and families waiting for word they are save. officials are expanded the search area. concern is that some passengers may have been ejected from the train. that is how intent the crash was. we have more tonight. take a look. >> for the survivors of amtrak train number 188 it was a moment of chaos and horror. >> i was thrown against the person next to me and people were falling on top of us, someone's leg hit my head and her body must have been in the

luggage rack. >> among those kills, justin zem ser. >> it is a terrible day for that midshipman's family. our thoughts and prayers are with them. >> jim gaines who works for the associated press. jakel jacobs, survived by her husband and 2-year-old son and wells fargo executive amid jer anie. and there were an untold number of passengers unaccounted for, including robert guilder sleeve, a executive and father of two from baltimore going to new york on business. the hospital provided care for over hundreds of patients.

>> there were many patients that will rib fractures. >> what does that tell you. >> that there was a high energy crash. >> some of those treated and released made it to new york's penn station on another train and while the search for those stilg missing -- still missing continues. >> and what can you tell us about the patients still in the hospital? do we know how many there are and how many are missing? >> this is one of six hospitals that the patients were brought to last night at temple university hospital but they are the closest to the crash site and only three mielts away -- miles away, so they have the majority of the patients, 54 patients and half have been treated and released but 23 patients remain here, including eight in critical condition. now according to the medical director we know that many of the patients had partially collapsed lungs.

he also said pointedly that nearly every patient had some sort of rib fracture. and we know there are three major surgeries scheduled for this hospital tomorrow. anderson. >> appreciate the reporting. here in philadelphia, at the nearby station, the red cross is providing counseling and support for the survivors. they have been helping out since about 10:00 p.m. last night, since about 30 minutes after the accident. joining me judge ser vow from the red cross, thank you for being with us. those who lost a loved one, all of a sudden they are gone and their lives are changed and part of what the red cross does is help to people in this time of grief. what do you say to people?

>> a lot of times you listen. you let them talk and get their grief out. and so our volunteers are very special people. they are msw, psychologists, psychiatrists, people trained to deal with grief and so they know. but a lot of times it is really listening and letting them emoat about someone so dear to them. >> not someone who died of cancer and there is months to prepare for it and say goodbye, it is the randomness it. >> it is a form of post-traumatic stress disorder and it is a traumatic event and some people will cry and some become stoic and the reaction is the whole gamut of human emotions and we have to help them work through all of that. >> and in terms of how long you stay to deal with people, how long do you determine that? >> the red cross stays as long as it is necessary. this is a slow process with no

time line. we'll be there as long as the community needs us. it is what we do. so we have volunteers who rotate in and out so they are always fresh and ready to deal with this kind of grief. that is how we handle it. >> and whenever the ntsb is called, you are mandated that you come as well. >> correct. we are congressionally mandated to care for the families in a mass tragedy, and that is on the national level. but locally day in and day out we do the same thing in communities across the country. >> and you trained, just the last three months ago for a train accident? >> correct. one of the things that makes the red cross so special is we think about these things, as weird as that sounds, we do think about these things so three months ago here in philadelphia we had an exercise to train our volunteers in the event a derailment occurred because of the infrastructure. so our volunteers knew exactly what to do, which is partially why we were able to get here so

quickly, we knew what to do. >> a sign of your leadership that you had the presence of mind to think, let's train for this, even though it hasn't happened here, let's train for it. so thank you for talking tonight. i love what the red cross does. thank you so much. >> i appreciate it. >> we'll talk to a mom and a son who survived the crash with minor injures and the sob went -- her son went back to help other passengers and we'll talk to them ahead. 's house? but this morning, a city i've never been to felt like one i already knew. i just wanted to thank you for sharing your world with me. it felt like home. airbnb. belong anywhere.

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well the passengers on amtrak train 188 had little to in inkling of what was to come. in one minute everything was fine and in the next they were being hurdled through the area. max hepman was traveling with his mom joan and after he made sure his mom was okay, he went back to help and i spoke with them just a short time ago. first of all, how are you feeling? >> we're hanging in there. it has been a long 24 hours, as you can imagine, but we're hanging in there. >> neither of us have slept for about 36 hours now, we're sore and alive and thankful. >> and i understand max you were in one of the rear cars of the train, take us through what happened. everything was going fine until

the train started to take the turn? >> yeah, everything was going fine and all of a sudden for about two seconds, our car started to shake and before you knew it, we were all flung up against the window our car was on its side and everyone was on the ground and when the car finally stopped, i got up and the car was smoking so everyone's first thought was this coor might explode so let's get everyone out of here. and this was a door open about eight inches and it was enough room to squeeze people through it so the first priority was obviously to get my mom safe, so i got her out, and looking around the car, i saw that there was so many people in much worse condition than i was. i was up and able to walk and so i just did what i could to get people out of that car.

>> and june, did you notice the speed of the train at all prior to the crash? did it seem like it was going fast. because some people felt like it was going too fast? >> i didn't feel that way. it was just -- it was moving. i didn't notice any difference than the speed we were traveling before, no. >> and i understand that when it derailed, joan, you went flying, and went flying toward your son, is that right? >> i went flying toward the windows in the side of the car that was going down. and we were sitting in the front so there were many large pieces of luggage that one hit my chest, one hit my head and i was covered with all of this luggage when my son found me. >> what is going through your mind in a situation like that, joan? is it happening so fast that you don't think or can you tell me what it's like? >> it was very scary.

but, you know, i think i started to panic a little bit but my son just kept calling my name and he found me and he got me out and made sure that i got out of the train and then i could focus better and to see if i could help others as well. >> and max, when you went to help others, what was the scene like for you? >> um, i mean, people were everywhere. there was suitcases everywhere, suitcases falling on top of people, the chairs had dislodged and some of the chairs had fallen on people. people bleeding from their faces, broken bones, broken legs, pronen arms, anything you -- broken arms, anything you can really imagine, that is what happened. >> and i'm so glad that both of you are okay and hope you get some rest, much needed rest and

thank you for all you did and i'm sure there are people that would like to thank you for reaching out to help others in their team of need. max and joan, thank you so much. >> thank you so much, mr. cooper. >> thank you. >> it is so great to hear of people who in their house and moment of need reached out to help others. >> this is the latest in the string of deadly u.s. rail accidents. we want to dig deeper on that next. stick around.

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the deadly amtrak crash here in philadelphia has put an emphasis back on train safety. considering the 10s of millions of people that travel every year, it's relatively safe but this crash is one of dozens that happen every year. >> reporter: tuesday's amtrak crash is just the latest in a string of horrifying accidents on u.s. rails. >> all of a sudden in a blink of an eye, i want from one side of the train to the other side of the train. >> reporter: on average, there v been 31 amtrak train derailments each year since 2006.

so far, there have been nine this year, prior to the recent incident. and while they own and operate the 457 miles of the corridor. and in february, just north of new york city a metro commuter train crashed into a vehicle 37 in 2013, a metro north train jumped the tracks as it barrelled ruined curve, traveling three times the posted speed, killing four. with more than 11 million passengers traveling along the northeast corridor, it has become one of the busiest, most complex and technically advanced rail systems in the world.

george bible says that while traveling by train is safe, they should be concerned about the tracks and not speeding injunires. >> the rails can fracture from metal fatigue or they can move round and shift or anything else that moves. the common ones are wheels, bearings and axals. >> coincidently, the site of the crash in philadelphia is in the same area where the nation saw one of its deadliest train sdints history. a train traveling from washington to new york went off the tracks killing 79 people. in 1943. >> so awful. we'll be right back with more.

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we make sure every weekend is one to remember. doubletree by hilton. where the little things mean everything. well, that's it for me tonight on "360." our coverage continue said with don lemon. >> i have questions for you. cars from amtrak 188 are being removed from the track. and here's what we do know at this hour, at least seven people killed, an unknown number of people still missing at this hour. the national transportation safety board says it was speeding at 106 miles an hour through the curve, more than twice the speed limit and the engineer slammed on the breaks before the crash. and they tried to interview him but he refuto