♪ developing this morning, the fbi now called into investigate amtrak's deadly crash. and there's new information surfacing about the possibility that an object struck the windshield. he wanted to go to hell, and he's going to get there early. >> that message to the boston bomber after learning he'll be sentenced to death. now, an automatic appeal process begins that could keep him alive for years, even decades, in fact. and this morning, isis goes

on the offensive in iraq for the key city of ramadi, prompting the u.s. to expedite shipments to help allied forces there. >> announcer: this is cnn breaking news. so grateful to have you with us, as always. good morning to you on this saturday. i'm christi paul. >> i'm victor blackwell. in egypt, former president mohamed morsi has been sentenced to death for his role in a 2011 prison break. the leader's name along with more than 100 other defendants will be passed on to the highest authority in egypt for confirmation of the death sentence on june 2nd. let's bring in cnn correspondent ian lee. ian, morsi was egypt's first democratically elected president. was this sentence expected? >> reporter: well, victor and christi, this sentence was -- a guilty sentence was expected,

although this death sentence was the harshest sentence mohamed morsi could receive. now, there were two cases today, one dealing with this prison break from 2011 where the prosecution say they orchestrated the release of 20,000 inmates. there was another case against him today with very serious charges, too, of funding terrorism and working with foreign intelligence agencies compromising egypt's defense. espionage. that was the case today that we were following as well. the judge didn't hand down a sentence for morsi on that case, but looking at this jailbreak, he was just one of 105 people who were given the death sentence. and as you said earlier, this is a long process. it will go to egypt's highest legal authority in islam in egypt. he will give his analysis of the sentencing, then on june 2nd, the judges will convene and decide whether to uphold this

death sentence. but this is just one of many procedures here in egypt. there's three appeals that mohamed morsi can take advantage of it. so don't expect him go to tgall anytime soon. also, we want to tell me you about the new development into the amtrak crash investigation. first of all, the fbi is getting involved here. the head of the ntsb says, too, that derailed train may have been hit by some sort of an object before if through off the tracks. see that white circular mark inside that red ring, investigators believe that mark may be from a projectile hitting the train. not damage from the latest derailment. as i said, the fbi is being called in to help with the investigation. and that is something that they're particularly going to be looking at, that part of the

windshield. erin mclaughlin is live following the investigation here. erin, what have you learned this morning? >> reporter: hi, christi. well, investigatorsing trying to solve the mystery of why amtrak 188 crashed. they're now looking at the possibility that the train may have been struck by some sort of project style. yesterday in a press conference, a member of the ntsb pointed to two key new pieces of evidence. information from the assistant conductor of amtrak 188. she says that prior to the crash, she heard a radio transmission between the amtrak dispatcher and the engineer of a nearby septa train. the engineer of the nearby septa train reporting that his windshield had been struck by a projectile. she said she then heard from the amtrak 188 engineer, brandon bostian, telling the dispatcher that amtrak 188 had been struck by a projectile as well. we also know that they're looking at the windshield of

amtrak 188, a small circular marking in the lower left-hand corner. they called in the fbi to help with that forensic analysis. ntsb saying calling in the fbi for its forensics expertise is not unusual during the course of its investigations. adding to this mystery is reports from passengers of a third train that was in the area that night. we heard from cam desigh who was on board an amtrak acela train. he said that that train, about 15 or 20 minutes prior to the 188 derailment was also hit by a projectile. he said it struck the passenger window in front of him and he was terrified. take a listen. >> i think all of us were a little bit definitely alarmed. we never heard that loud of a sound on the train. we take the train pretty often in new york. it was definitely frightening, and we didn't know what was going on. as soon as we stood up and saw this glass shatter that hadn't

gone all the way through. the conductor made it sound like it wasn't too big of a deal, we hardly think anything of it. >> reporter: authorities had been wear of reports that other trains had been hit by unidentified projectiles. but those reports had initially been discounted. that according to the philadelphia mayor. but now clearly investigators taking a look at this very seriously. >> erin mclaughlin live there for us. we'll be there all morning. thank you so much, erin. so let's bring in, we have mr. carl edgar, he is a member of the washington branch of the local brotherhood of locomotive trainmen. we're learning from you, sir, earlier in the day, the engineer of the train, mr. bostian was apparently driving an acela train in the opposite direction

when there was an electrical signal malfunction. first, good to have you. second, tell us what you learned about that traveling experience. >> well, there are many things that still have to be revealed in the course of this investigation. but there are a couple things that are known pretty certainly. one of those is that the trip down on that day was troubled by equipment failures that resulted in the engineer having to take on serious additional duties, reduce speed at a greatly increased level of operator stress. it took one-third of his scheduled already reduced scheduled relief time in washington. so, that's certainly background to an incident that took place. >> before we get to -- and i want to talk about the time -- the downtime, between the route

back to new york. but explain more about this malfunction that happened. and what the engineer would have had to do at that time to slow the train down to get it under control. >> there is a signaling system that is in use for almost a hundred years in the northeast corridor on trains which is called a cab signal system, that's essentially a supplemental and backup signal -- signaling apparatus. in the particular case of the trip down, and the way that it impacted that trip in a very significant way. it was necessary to cut back that system out, in order to be able to continue to move the train. that institutes a series of rule changes, procedure changes that,

in this case, not only involved the cutting out of that equipment, but then the reduced speed for the rest of the trip and a series of conditional requirements. the most important of which is that the rail side signaling system is the only signal system that remains active. >> and your understanding is is he navigated this appropriately from the trip from new york to washington? >> absolutely. but nobody relishes being in that situation. >> understood. now, let's talk about once he arrived, was he delayed because of the troubles and that trip south? and if so, how long? and how did that affect his downtime? >> yeah, well, the result and the primary, you know, practical result for the train schedule was because of the reduced speed. and because of that, it was almost a half hour lost time.

he already had since march 23rd on those schedules. and the schedules of all the engineers and conductors working in the northeast corridor dramatically modified rest times. and those rest times, in some cases, were made much shorter. in other cases they were made much, much longer. and we had notified them repeatedly and demonstrated the way that that would increase the risk, increase the problems. but they made the decision at the highest levels that they wanted to do this. and they implemented it on march 23rd. when that happened -- >> mr. edler, i want to get to specifically, and i understand the larger implications, but specifically in this train, how much downtime did he have as a result of the problems? >> he had 61 minutes nominally

on paper. from the time he was due with his responsibility on the original train. from the time he had to be back 100% with his crew doing the safety procedures that were necessary to make the next trip. now, in the course of that 61 minutes he may well have, and often is the case, especially in a situation like this, had to do paperwork, had to talk to officials about the trip down and other things that would have further eroded that time. and the fact that there are distances that have to be walked. so he lost -- he lost roughly a third of his downtime. >> a third of his downtime. i know something as we talk more about the investigation as we get into this investigation, the fbi will be looking into that as well as the ntsb. mr. karl edler, a trainman and

locomotive engineer himself. thank you for giving us insight into that journey on tuesday. justice, some call it. now that the decision is in for t boston marathon bombing. yes you are. dish issues? get cascade complete. one pac cleans tough food better than 6 pacs of the bargain brand combined. cascade. now that's clean.

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train before it careened off the tracks. you see inside that red circle, a crack there. a crack, more than a crack. let's bring in former faa inspector david soucie. we as have fbi former assistant director tom fuentes on the phone with us. david, i want to start with you. you listened to the conversation i had just now with this union leader out of washington, karl edler, who talked about the difficulties that an engineer had on the same route, the same day, and a lack of downtime. what's the reaction to what you heard? >> well, it's not uncommon, honestly, to have these difficulties. the blet has been working on to get it changed. it's well over 60 hours a week these guys are working. they were looking at changes to reduce that time, that downtime. and just that same month, the

supreme court ruled in favor of amtrak being able to make these regulations performance standards themselves, so it's odd to me that happened immediately after the supreme court decision that amtrak decided to make these changes. so there's a lot going on inside of that organization that needs looked at. >> tom, i'm going to come to you with this claim that the train was hit by something. and other trains in that area had been hit by some projectiles. fbi now on this case. what will they be doing specifically to figure out, if this train was hit by something, or this wasn't caused during the derailment. and if it was hit by something, the person or thing that caused it. >> victor, the fbi would be ostensibly be involved in an investigation like this, where you don't know whether it was mechanical or deliberate. there's a series of federal statutes which the fbi has jurisdiction over. that could be damaging a railroad track.

or just damaging the systems, the lights, the warning systems. the trains, the engineer driving the train. all of those aspects, if it were sabotaged, that would be a criminal investigation that the voo fbi would have. as far as an october hitting the windshield, whether that distracted or affected people in control of that train that will be part of investigation as well. >> david, do you see any plausible correlation between a projectile hit the train and this precipitous increase in speed? >> i'll tell you, it would be a real stretch. the only thing i could think, as tom mentioned, some kind of distraction, causing that distraction, where he didn't pay attention to where the throttles were at that time. you know, this train doesn't react immediately, although it's extremely powerful, 8,000 horsepower at your fingertips. and you push that forward, and it's going to react. but if possibly it was distracted, distracted at that time when he -- the throttle to

get it moving to another speed and then throttled back during that time period, if you're distracted, it doesn't take long to go from 70 miles an hour to 100 miles an hour at that speed. but, it's still a stretch for me to go there. >> yeah, i wonder, the spokesperson for septa, another system in which there was a train reportedly hit by a projectile says that they receive reports a couple times a month, david, that there are things that hit the trains. usually kids throw them and there's no major damage. if this happens so often, if incredible to think that this engineer would be distracted long enough that he wouldn't notice or respond to that increase in speed? >> yeah. like i said, it is a stretch that he would have -- he's a professional. he's been doing this a long time. he's trained. he knows what to do. certainly, i would suspect that he's had that kind of incident before because it is fairly common. so, i really don't think that they're looking in the right area here.

however, messing with the train is a federal offense. and that's why the fbi's called in. and the investigation with the faa, if there's anything that looks criminal at all, we immediately notify the fbi, and they may even take over the investigation, depending on the severity. >> do you expect that to happen, tom? >> well, not at this point. i think right now, they just work very closely with the ntsb and the forensics experts from both agencies work all the time together, as david mentioned. not only in airline crashes but this type of thing. you even have road crashes where the ntsb might investigate serious traffic accidents. but could have been the result of somebody throwing a brick off a bridge hitting the windshield of a truck and it strikes other vehicles and causes massive accidents. any type of sabotage that is criminal, the fbi would have it. and both agencies work closely

together to develop what happened and develop the evidence if prosecution is going to be warranted. i'm sure the trains probably strike bird strikes just like aircraft do with the windshield. like david, i think it's a stretch to think that something hitting the windshield would be a distraction, unless it came through the windshield and actually injured the driver of the train. so, i think -- all of this has yet to be determined. >> yes, many more questions will be answered. tom few wept tease, david soucie, cnn analyst, both, thank you so much. >> thank you. thank you, gentlemen. all right. the decision is in for the boston marathon. we're going to take you into the verdict. and also new this morning, isis is on to iraq for the key city of ramadi, and that's pressured the u.s. to expedite weapons shipments to help out.

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feyerick. i'm wondering what people are talking about, what conversations are they having? >> reporter: well, you know, it's very interesting, the mood is not one of celebration at all. many believe he simply got justice. he got what he deserved for planting that bomb at the marathon. there are others concerned by not getting life in prison, now the whole appeals process is going to drag this on. his name will be spoken more times than anybody here in boston has the stomach for. and there's still others that don't know exactly what to feel after a federal jury handed down the sentence. boston marathon dzhokhar tsarnaev left federal court under heavy guard. after a jury sentenced the 21-year-old to death on 6 of 17 counts. all 6 relate to the bomb tsarnaev himself placed in the

crowd in front of the forum restaurant. that bomb killed 8-year-old martin richard. and graduate student lingzi lu injuring many others. >> these people will be affected by what happened on that day. so we try to project that, and we try to show that these cases are just so full of emotion. >> reporter: it took jurors 14 1/2 hours to decide death. as the verdict was read, a heavy silence fell over the courtroom. tsarnaev stood and showed no emotion. glancing at his lawyer. several survivors and their relatives wiped away tears. >> it is bittersweet. you know, there's no winner today, but i feel justice for my family. >> reporter: of 12 jurors, only two believed dzhokhar tsarnaev was remorseful. only three believed older brother tamerlan planned and directed the terror attack. >> it was a political crime

designed to intimidate and to coerce the united states. although the defense claimed that the defendant was himself intimidated and coerced by an older brother, the evidence did not bear that out. >> reporter: while the jury was unanimous in sentencing tsarnaev to death, they did not hand down sentences for counts relating to the first bomb carried by tamerlan or to the murder of m.i.t. police officer sean collier. and as we said, yesterday, dzhokhar tsarnaev who has been in this court really since january. he sat through the jury selection process. and then, of course, the trial that spanned really 12 weeks. he left this court, he will not be back until his official sentencing in the next couple of months, christi. >> hey, deb, stick around. i want to discuss this case further with cnn commenter mel robbins. good morning to you.

i want to start with what's next for dzhokhar. we know that the case is automatically appealed. what does that mean specifically? >> well, what that means specifically, all the paperwork is going to be filed. interestingly, christi, a lot of people don't know there will be a new set of lawyers for the case. why? because they want a fresh set of eyes. and the appeal process is so incredibly complicated that there are lawyers that actually specialize in just death penalty appeals. so you're going to see probably a three-month delay between now and the sentencing. there will be motions filed for the appeal automatically. you'll also see other motions filed before the sentencing. and then after the sentencing happens, probably sometime in august. you'll see the appeal process truly kick into full steam. and it could take years, christi. >> in fact, of the 80 federal defendants sentenced to death

since 1988, only three, including timothy mcveigh, which we should point out, oklahoma city bomber, three executed. some were vacated, we understand. some, the defendants died. what is the likelihood that tsarnaev will ever really see the sentence carried out? >> you know, i hate meeting predictions like this. and the other variable that you didn't mention, christi, is of the fact that in april, the supreme court heard testimony in a case where death row defendants are appealing the use of lethal injection which is the fully authorized manner, because it violates the eighth amendment. and so we have to wait and see, if they actually overturn the use of lethal injection. it could be even further. i think we're looking at least a couple decades. and i think the bittersweet irony of this case is that on all six counts, where they found him guilty and punished him to

the death penalty, they all related to martin richard. i'm sure this jury was unaware that martin richard's family wrote this opinion piece stating that they didn't want the death penalty precisely for this reason. because the appeals will keep him front and center until he's finally executed. >> that's a really good point. deb, i wanted to ask you about tamerlan ace widow, katherine russe russell. a lot of questions about where she is, what she's doing? what do you know about her right now? >> reporter: well, what we do know, she's keeping a very low profile. and so far, her attorneys have been able to keep her from being charged. but i did speak to one attorney who deals with these kinds of high-level terror cases. and that attorney told me essentially if prosecutors could bring charges against katherine russell, they would bring charges against katherine russell. remember, they've already charged at least three other people in connection witamar la

and dzhokhar tsarnaev. but you need to prove intent that she knew what he was doing. but neither the prosecution nor the defense brought her to testify. and that really tells you a lot. neither side really thought that she would do something for their own case, that she would help push it along. they did bring her mother who testified that she was brainwashed and it's taken two years for her daughter to get back to the katie russell she once knew. that was the effect and impact of tamerlan tsarnaev on her daughter. >> deb feyerick, mel robbins, appreciate your perspectives. thanks for being with us. >> announcer: this is cnn breaking news. the breaking news in egypt. former president mohamed morsi

has been sentenced to death for his role in the prison break. his name with 100 other defendants will be passed along to the highest authority for confirmation of the death sentence on june 2nd. morsi was egypt's first democratically elected president. we'll have more and a live report from cairo at the top of the hour. and we're following new developments into this week's deadly amtrak derailment. the fbi has been called in to help investigate the derailment of amtrak train 188. and the ntsb now says it believes the train may have been sort by some sort of object, some projectile, before it flew off the bratracks, before it we off. and just one of three possible projectile incidents that took place within 30 minutes of each other. you see the damage caused by each of those incidents. six people were killed. two others later died when the train 188 derail more on this story out there the

morning. but first, we want to tell you about fierce fighting in ramadi this morning, a key city in iraq as isis tries to claim its territory. look here already. the terror group has already captured the police headquarters, the main mosque, we understand, it's raised its black flag over the provincial building there. and the u.s. is expediting weapons there. joma jomana karadesch is there. >> as of late last night, according to iraqi officials isis is control of the majority of ramadi, the province capital that marks the largest province. it does seem that the iraqi security forces are in control of certain pockets in a couple of neighborhoods in ramadi. and as you mentioned, isis,

coming in with this -- on thursday, and a very symbolic move. they took over the government could ha complex. this used to be the government nerve, they took over that complex. and they raised -- there has been real determination, christi, by isis to do this for months now. push after push. and we've seen in the group trying to take control of what is left of al anbar province. the majority of this province, syria, saudi arabia, and also baghdad, really the majority of it has been under the control of isis pretty much for the past year. and there are only some parts of it that still under the government control. so isis taking over, hasn't happened yet in the fuel city as we know from the governor of anbar province. he described the situation as

very dire, saying fighting is ongoing. ramadi has not yet fallen yet. but officials are warning this is something that could happen now at any point. now, of course, we've seen an increase in u.s.-led coalition air strikes takes place, late last night, as we know. and baghdad is saying that it's sending some of its troops to push it back. this would be a major blow for the iraqi government. and the u.s.-led coalition. this would be the first major city to fall to isis since the start of the coalition air strikes last year. and a major boost for isis, it really would be tightening its grip on the territory it controls. that vast territory, all the way from the syrian/turkish border on to anbar province and to baghdad. a very serious situation there. >> jomana, thank you so much. let's bring in cnn military analysis lieutenant general mark

hertling. we have to talk about what appears to be inconsistency. maybe a contradiction here from what we're hearing from the u.s. government and from what we're seeing on the ground, general. first, we heard from coalition air strikes that isis is now on the defensive. and it's proven by their change in fighting style since the air strikes have begun. but we see they're now raising flags over this strategically and symbolically important city. do you agree that isis is now on the defensive? >> i do, victor. and is this -- it's interesting, because you're going to see ramadi as being hotly contested. it is a critical city for isis to control because it controls a line of communication from syria, all the way to their western approaches, to baghdad. i do believe, isis is on the defensive. they have suffered significant blows, no matter what the maps show. i'll tell you that they have suffered a lot of key leaders being killed, and they have lost

territory. but this win in ramadi, they're going to continue to fight this. remember, up to about a month ago, we said the same thing, ramadi is falling. they have certainly gained some ground in ramadi. they have pushed suicide vehicles in by my account. talking to people on the ground. they pushed over six suicide vehicles into that city to try and blow a hole toward the government center. but iraqi forces and the anbar tribe, they're still fighting against them. you also have to consider this, it's 100 degrees in ramadi today. they have had high winds and there's shamals. so it's very difficult to get air support against the movement of isis forces. once that balances out a little bit, i think you'll see continued fighting by additional forces by prime minister abadi. >> we have been told there have been eight air strikes as part

of thursday's offensive specifically. over the months, we were told, general, you needed ground troops. you needed air strikes plus the ground troops to hold them. well, yesterday, at least as this fight has been going on for months, you have the air strikes, amendment of them and then the iraqi forces on the ground. still, at the end of the day, it looks like this swung in the direction of isis power. what are you looking for here? >> well, the sizes of it is victor, let's open up the capture a little bit. there's been fighting going on in there's a religious festival and bombings have gone off there. there's been a resurgence of isis in ramadi. so the government of iraq is attempting to stamp out the pockets of terror and drama, but they certainly don't just have enough forces to do that right now. and isis is attempting to

further disrupt the iraqi government, and they're able do do this in anbar. because the shia militia forces can't go out there, or they haven't been allowed to go out there just yet. it's complete sunni problems, unlike the north in tikrit which is a mix of sunni and shia. they've got to build the forces out there. and that's, frankly, problematic right now. they're still in the process of training those forces to get them to fight. but some of the al anbar tribes have done that. >> we do know that the u.s. is expediting a shipment receive sources and weapons over there to help with this fight there on the ground. general, thank you so much. military analyst lieutenant general mark hertling. also a programming note. watch the fareed zakaria "blind

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mountain area of east kathmandu, killing six uggs marines and two nepalese service members. our will ripley has more. >> reporter: victor, christi, a very difficult and painful task in the mountains, 2100 miles west of kathmandu. crews are working to recover the eight bodies that have been identified at the crash site of that u.s. marine helicopter. they're also working to pick up and recover the debris, so they can continue to investigate what caused this chopper to go down with six u.s. marines and two nepally soldiers on board. you may remember yesterday, weather forced rescuers to call off their search. the weather at that altitude at times very dangerouses at times for not only people and aircraft. as you can hear there are thunderstorms in this area. so it's unclear if the weather will once again force the recovery crews to cut off their efforts but as you can imagine, this is a very, very tough time. not only for the u.s. marines

but also for the nepali government, they've welcomed in as many countries as they can to provide assistance to people who are cut off in the remote mountain areas where helicopters are there only lifeline for food, water, medicine. and the u.s. says they remain committed to that humanitarian mission. in fact, they continue aid flights as we speak in addition to that recovery work at the crash site. because they say keeping busy will help them get through the pain of losing six of their own in a very tragic crash in a dhaunt has suffered so much, victor, christi. >> will ripley from kathmandu, thank you. now that the decision is in for the boston marathon, we'll get insight into the tsarnaev family. the defense showed pictures of dzhokhar tsarnaev as a young boy. so what went wrong? we'll get answers from an author who just wrote a book about the brothers.

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gut-wrenching emotional trial, as you know. so many people don't understand why the tsarnaev brothers set off those bombs in the heart of boston. award winning journalist masha guessman joins us via skype. it's a new book about the tsarnaev family. marsha, thank you, first of all, for being with us. secondly, what was your reaction to the death sentence? >> i was actually surprised, not by the outcome, but how fast the jury came to this verdict. basically, they had a 24-page very dense verdict form. so they rushed through the 38 different questions on the verdict form. so they rushed through the questions at the rate of more than three questions an hour. that's basically enough time to read out the question, comprehend the results and write down the results. i don't think you can call this

deliberations. the death penalty trials are designed to make it exceedingly difficult to apply the death penalty. the judge emphasized on a number of occasions that it's ultimately up to the jury. the law doesn't make you impose the death penalty. there's nothing automatic about the process. and here it looks like they did it automatically. >> are you saying you think they got it wrong? >> well i'm opposed to the death penalty. i would think that if they came to the death penalty in any case. what i'm shocked, though, by is is there doesn't seem to be any deliberation, any discussion, basically the defense's efforts seem to have been in vain. the basic think the judge was getting the jurors to do is to see them as a human being. not as a monster. >> let me ask you this, you've done so much research on this family. you can probably see him, do you think, as a human more than other people because you've done

this research. and in your research, what did you learn about this family that might tell you, or show you where things went wrong for them, in the sense that they had this mind-set that they wanted to kill people? >> well, i think this is a story, and it's actually not an unique story of a small tragedy turning into a giant one. this family was constantly dislocated. they dzigzagged around the sovit union in a place they could call home. they finally came to the united states, they seemed to be doing all right. nothing work. nobody got a good job, nobody made any money. the oldest brother dropped out of college was dealing drugs and delivering pizzas. those small things. and the fact, what we know about terrorism is not so much what the fbi tells us about these giant roots that recruit people

and take them rue the radicalization process, in fact, it's much more mundane. terrorists usually come from disenfranchised background, secular backgrounds. it's notes that luke at them and say, o these are radicals who care out these things and that's how it works. the tsarnaevs fit the profiles perfectly. the question is how does it go from a small tragedy to this giant tragedy of killing three people and traumatizing the entire city of boston. >> marsha, we appreciate your insight on this story. thank you for being with us. >> thank you for having me. new video out of atlanta this morning, showing the moment

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marathon bomber? plus, new this morning, ramadi under siege. isis makes a key push for the city and it's forcing the united states deeper into the conflict now. good morning. thank you so much for sharing your morning with us, i'm christi paul. >> i'm victor blackwell. an fbi forensic team has been called in to help, because of this, this is the reason. take a look at your screen. that white circular mark inside the red ring. the het head of the ntsb now says that mark may have been the cause of incident before. >> and there are delays earlier on that day that could have cut into his rest periods. we'll talk more about that in a moment. but, first, let's go to erin mclaughlin, she's live in philadelphia, following this

investigation. erin, what have you learned this morning? >> reporter: victor and christi, investigators trying to solve this mystery are pointing to two knew pieces of evidence that indicate that am track 188 may have been hit by some sort of projectile prior to crashing. they interviewed the assistant conductor of am track 188 who says that prior to the crash she heard a radio transmission that took place between the amtrak dispatcher and the engineer of a nearby septa train. the engineer of that septa train saying that his wind shield had been struck by some sort of projectile. she says what she then heard from 32-year-old brandon bostian tell the amtrak dispatcher that amtrak 188 had been hit as well. they're also taking a look at that windshield. a circular marking on the lower left-hand side that called in the fbi for forensic analysis. now, adding to this mystery,

we're hearing from passengers from a third train in that area around that night, we spoke to passenger kam desai who was on board an amtrak acela train. she said prior to the 188 derailment, about 15 minutes' beforehand, he said his train was hit by some sort of a projectile. it struck the window right in front of him and he said he was terrify. >> i think all of us were definitely alarmed. we definitely never heard that loud of a sound before on the train. we take the train pretty often between d.c. and new york. it was definitely frightening and we didn't know what was going on. as soon as we stood up and saw that there was this glass shatter that hadn't gone all the way through. and the conductor sounded like it wasn't too big of a deal, we hardly think anything of it. >> reporter: now, officially, authorities have rejected the reports of projectiles hitting trains but clearly, investigators taking a look at

this very seriously. >> erin mclaughlin in philadelphia. thank you so much. let's talk more with our cnn safety analysis, david soucie back on this with us. david, i wonder how often are these trains hit by these projectiles and is it enough to see some relationship between a rock, a brick, maybe? and the increase in speed? >> well, to your first question, it happens a couple times a month, there's some reports of this happening. and what they've done to respond to that over the years, the windshields that are on the front of trains have been improved and gruvd where now it's a laminated windshield that's bulletproof. so that object even though being hit at what could have been as much as 100 miles an hour still didn't penetrate through the windshield. so, there's that. as far as a distraction, certainly, it would be distracting to have something hit at that speed. and something large enough to

make that kind of a dent would be very distracting. at the wrong time it could have delayed his response in reducing the throttles. i think it's still a stretch to say that's a causal factor. it was certainly a part of what happened here, though. >> so, david, i think for folks in the control room, if we had that map of this route, not the entire northeast corridor, but just the smaller section, in which we see that the last station that brandon bostian rest, and then headed to this turn and then headed north. according to the ntsb, he's been extremely cooperative, but he doesn't remember anything after ringing the bell after leaving that last station. we then head for a couple miles to the turn. and we've learned that after that at least according to the "the new york times," typically, they speed up to maybe 100 miles per hour, after making that turn. is it possible to think that this item that hit the windshield could have distracted him to the point that he thought

he'd already made the turn and it was appropriate to get up to 100 miles per hour? >> well, to answer that question, you really have to look at the training that goes into being an engineer. it's not like you get an license to be an engineer and then they throw you on any track that you want to be. the labor union behind the engineer, the brotherhood of locomotive engineers and trainmen, what they assure, and amtrak assures, before you take on a new track, you have to have training on that track. you have to memorize every turn. you have to memorize every speed limit. it's like saying you can't take a highway in a car until you memorize every aspect of that route. so you're certified for each route before you take it. certainly, at this point, knowing that he had done his route for a long time, not too long on this particular route, he'd been an engineer for four years. he would not have been given the go-ahead unless he had that

memorized. to think that a stone hitting or something distracted him that he would have hit that forward, there's a lot of safe guards that go in place as far as the training that go into this. although they can be improved as we talk about with the positive train controls as well. >> but where were they? we know he pulled brake just seconds before it hit that current and derailing. it took some time obviously to get up to the speed that it was unsafe before they got to 100 miles per hour? >> it did. there was obviously some kind of disconnect, whether it was in his mind, from the stone from whatever happened or if there was a literal mechanical disconnect between the throttles and what was going on with that engine. these are electric locomotive, we're talk about a rheostat. that comes through.

it's an electric motor, actually, to thrust forward. electric motors are extremely responsive. it's not like a diesel engine in a car. this is immediately responsive, applying that much force to the train. accelerating from 70 to 100 miles an hour, those algebra problems we used to do in the day, how fast does it take a train to get to this point from this point, when you have that type of power, it happens very initially to go 30 miles an hour once that inertia is in play. >> this morning, we spoke with the washington branch of the brotherhood of locomotive engineers, a trainman, a union leader i want you to listen to what he describes as bostian's schedule. take a listen. >> in the court of that 60 minutes he may well have had, as often with the case, especially

in a situation like this, he had to do paperwork, talk to officials about the trip down and other things that would have further eroded that time. and the fact that there are distances that have to be walked. so he lost a third -- he lost roughly a third of his downtime. >> so the 61 minutes that will edler is referring to is after the trip south and before getting on that train to head north. 61 minutes, mr. edler said he lost a third of it. is that enough time between these two? >> no, it's not enough time -- well, it is enough time if you really had that. but the blet is working very hard to improve that and the working conditions and hours that these trainmen and engineers are having to face. >> david soucie, cnn safety analysis, thank you so much for helping us understand it. >> thank you. now, the amtrak crash is raising some new concerns, too, about how safe our rails

transportation system is as a whole. the ntsb says it's the safest system known as positive train control had been installed tuesday's amtrak crash would not have happened. the cost of that is not cheap. according to the federal railroad association it costs about $52,000 per mile of track. all of this pumping a much discussion on capitol hill. let's bring in at the white house. >> reporter: there is a big question, does the federal spending levels, does that impact that in any way way, president obama did jump into the fray, repeating his calls for increased spending on infrastructure. >> we are a growing country with

growing economy. not just when something bad happens like a bridge collapse or train derailment. but all the time. >> reporter: now democrats argue that insufficient funding led to this ptc system known as positive train control which was not implemented and could have potentially prevented this derailment. republicans have been pushing back on this all week, pointing to technical conditions with the federal communications that says it's not about funding. bill schuster told cnn this week that it's shameless that the democrats are trying to tie this issue of the derailment and funding together. he says that democrats are exploiting a tragedy, christi, to get more funding. >> sunlen serfaty, we appreciate it. thank you. >> announcer: this is cnn breaking news. the breaking news out of

egypt, former president mohamed morsi has been sentenced to death for his control in a 2011 prison break. now mr. morsi's name and other defendants are going on for the confirmation of that sentence. let's bring in cnn's correspondent ian lee. ian, good morning. >> reporter: good morning, victor, 105 people, including mohamed morsi will receive the death sentence today. i asked mohamed morsi's lawyer point blank if he thought he received a fair trial. he did not answer the question directly, only saying that the the former president does not believe this is a legitimate court to begin with. that he shouldn't be charged in the first place. well, now, this case goes to egypt's grant mufti. this is the highest legal authority to interpret islam in the country. he will go over the evidence. he will offer his own legal

opinion. then on june 2nd, this same judge will look at that opinion and look at the evidence again, whether to confirm or not mohamed morsi's death sentence. but even if he does confirm this death sentence, there is still a lengthy appeals process. he still has two more appeals. so, this case isn't over. >> all right, technical problem there with ian lee's live shot. but we got the gist of the story there. there is still this lengthy, probably two-year appeals process for the former president of egypt. our thanks to ian lee. >> so one of the other questions people areasking, can the healing begin in boston? where would dzhokhar tsarnaev spend his time behind bars and what will that be like

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there's an award-winning golf for everyone. 16 minutes past the hour right now. sentenced to death, the city of boston is reacting this morning to the jury's decision in the trial of boston bomber dzhokhar tsarnaev, of course. jurors unanimously visibilitied him for 7 of the 17 counts. a date for the formal sentencing has not been set just yet. but we've all seen new responses from those affected by the attacks that killed three people and an m.i.t. officer. cnn national correspondent deb feyerick is live in boston this

morning. i'm wondering, deb, what conversations are people having about this, this morning? >> reporter: well, you know, it's very interesting, you have to keep in mind that this death sentence came down two years and one month after the actual marathon bombing. for some people, there's a sentence of relief that justice was served pipe want to show you some of the headlines in the papers today. this is "the boston herald." it says, justice, his own words, "an eye for an eye." this one, the "boston globe." the jurors looked at this and said this was a terror attack that dzhokhar tsarnaev was the worst of the worst. and the only penalty was death. they sentenced him after 14 1/2 hours. on six of the count, the counts specifically relating to the bomb himself dropped. the one that he placed behind the 8-year-old martin richard

and the one that he placed behind chinese student lingzi lu. they do feel that justice has been served. others feel by dragging this appeals process out that it's decades before anything happens in it. he'll be sitting there with his name coming up every time there's an appeals process. some people didn't know quite what to feel. but here's some of the reactions yesterday. >> i'm sure at one time in his life, he was a very lovely, caring young man. what he turned into, obviously, was -- we know what he turned into. he turned into a monster. why did that happen? we'll never know. my feelings on him are nothing but -- what can i say. >> reporter: and as for dzhokhar tsarnaev, he left court

yesterday under heavy guard. he was returned to the prison where he's been staying, it's unclear whether he'll go to indiana and then to florence, colorado, to be sentenced there in the next couple months. christi. >> deb feyerick, we appreciate it, thank you. dzhokhar tsarnaev may be the first man to get the death penalty for terrorism since the september 11 attacks. but he will not be lone on federal death row. plus, why is there an automatic appeal? we'll ask our legal experts to weigh in just just a moment. but next, the fight for ramadi, isis' big if you remember to take over this key iraqi city. how could it change the balance of power in that region? [car engine] [car engine] ♪

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22 minutes past the hour. and this morning, isis is battling iraqi forces in ramadi. that is a key city in central iraq, as it tries to expand its territory. you see it here on the map. the terror group has the police headquarterses, we understand, the main mosque, the government building under its control. the u.s. is expediting, meanwhile, it's weapons security to help bring it back. let's talk to general mark hertling. general, let's talk about the expediting of weapons does that go back farther in the battle? >> let's talk about what the weapons are, christi, i think it's critically important for your listeners to understand.

what we're shipping are a weapons system called et-4. it's a small shoulder-fired anti-tank missile. and it's relatively inexpensive. the reason they need that is because of increasing reliance by isis using delivery means by explosive device. they have gone into the cities with humvees, large trucks, and they've done it under mostly the cover of dust and run checkpoints. those are difficult to defend against. it's a suicide attack. though these at-4s will stop those attacks. it's an adaptation to a tactic that the iraqi forces need have. >> and it's in addition, we should point out to the eight new coalition air stliex have happened in the last 24 hours, we believe. how effective are those air strikes thus far and do you think more are needed? >> yeah, the air strikes in and

of themselves are effective when they can get in. i think they've been hindered by the weather. i experienced this when i was in northern iraq. there are just periods of time where you can't rely on air. and i think isis is taking advantage of this during high winds and dust storms. once the sun comes out, there's all indications that today is a sunny day. but you can see this in the films, the red dust that's constantly going around. but once the sun comes out, i think any movement by isis will come under attack by coalition air forces. >> general, u.s. forces have described ramadi as a 50/50 situation. much of the city center is controlled by iraqis. isis is in the suburbs. >> one of the problems is to tamp down the propaganda. you remember a couple weeks ago, everyone was saying ramadi is falling. in and of itself, that causes

iraqi security forces to run away, to desert. that forces hem to things they've seen in other areas. where people are leaving the city. this will be a continuous battle. it will be a give and take. there will be some exchanges of buildings, exchanges of territory. but i'm pretty confident quite truthfully that the al anbar tribes reinforced in baghdad will take this tack. the anbar operations center in the center of town is still in control but truthfully, it's going to be a tough fight. >> general mark hertling, we appreciate your perspective. >> thank you, christi. this saturday, cnn is take an unique look inside of isis. who are they? what do they really want? fareed zakaria hosts "blind sided." right here at 7:00 p.m. on sunday. looking ahead to dzhokhar

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bottom of the hour now. good to have you with us on "new day." we're following new developments in this week's deadly amtrak derailment. the fbi has been called in to investigate now. and the ntsb says it believes the train may have been struck by some sort of object before it flew off the tracks. this is just one of three possible projectile incidents. look at the screen. you'll see them in the red circles on three separate trains. the incidents took place of 30 minutes within each other tuesday night. six people were killed and two people died later at the hospital when train 188 derailed. some victims of the boston bombings say they feel they can move forward now that the bomber has been sentence. a jury nanuly agreed on the

death penalty of 6 of 17 counts that dzhokhar tsarnaev was convicted of. and the formal sentencing date has not yet been set. >> but a lot of people are wondering what is next near this case. we want to discuss this further with former hln analyst joey jackson and mel robbins. joey, i want to ask you first and foremost, why is an automatic appeal sentence in cases such as this? >> good morning, christi, and good morning, mel. the death penalty is the appellate process. even before you get there, what you're going to see is you're going to see a flurry of post trial motions by the attorneys. what does that mean? the first thing is inside baseball. there may be a number of technical things that went on in that courtroom that are not so much exposed to the public and for us. but attorneys for him feel are problematic enough to get the

judge to perhaps vacate the sentence some in some way. certainly that's a hail mary, but it's something they're going to do. another thing they're going to do in the way of appeals, remember, the defense wanted that case moved out of boston. felt it was too close to home. couldn't get a fair trial there. they expressed upon that. the judge ruled the case, the judge said no went to the appellate court, said we're struggle here. i think you'll see appeals predicated on the fact of that, and predicated on the fact that we need more time. the judge granted an initial delay of the trial. so there are a number of appellate things that will occur. but remember, in a death penalty case, the appellate because is very significant because we're talking about going to die. and if they go to die, you want to make sure they're doing it, no stones have been untoned, the rights have been protected and everyone has gotten it right. >> rights are protected and

guilty of doing what they're accused. he was there, they know he did what he did. but now, i think, part of what is so frustrating to people who do believe in the death penalty process is the length of time it takes for that process to carry out. if he can be in prison for decades, waiting this out, why? >> yeah, actually, christi, he will be in prison for decades. we have not executed somebody at the federal level since 2003. and keep in mind, that timothy mcveigh actually stopped the appeal process. so, you know, that had a very significant impact on the fact that they could move forward with an execution. joey did an excellent job summarizing many of the bases on which they're going to appeal this case. the venue stuff. the fact that they wanted more time. the first set of appeals, christi, will all be about the motions and decisions that are were made about that trial. now, that's one set of appeals

that goes through the -- that the first u.s. circuit of appeals court in boston then to the supreme court, once they exhaust those, guess what. they get a second bite of the apple, and they can appeal based on anything else. the fact that the death penalty is cruel. the fact that lethal injections should be halted. so this could go on for years and years and year, christi. and mark my words it will. >> and now, you talked about last hour, the supreme court and the decision they have to make about some of these arguments that the death penalty is inhuman in a way it's administered. so, joey, if the supreme court makes some sort of decision, can that take the death penalty off the table altogether here? >> you know, it could. but here's why i think this is a little different. and timothy mcveigh is mentioned did stop the appellate process. the oklahoma city bombings happened in 1995. he was sentenced and convicted in 1997. and he died four years after

that. so that was relatively brief. prior to him, it was actually in federal prison and it happened in eight years. so remember, what's in front of the supreme court right now deals with the mix of chemicals for which you're sentenced to die. dying is by lethal injection, and there's a problem, based upon the drugs, based upon the availability of them. and the issue is whether it constitutes cruel and unusual punishment. i certainly expect that decision will be resolved by the supreme court well before his date of execution. so it may not be an issue in terms of the availability of drugs. the nature of whether it's cruel and unusual and how a person is put to death. depending upon what he does in terms of stopping appeals. not stopping appeals. moving forward, the arguments he makes, it could be wrong or relatively short. >> alrighty. and lastly, a report says that the appeals process, gosh, they got $10 million?

mel, what's that about, $10 million? >> listen, one of the reasons so many people are against the death penalty is because it's going to cost more money to actually kill tsarnaev than if we had locked him away. and the reason why, you have to house them in special facilities which cost more money. and you have to pay for the appeals process. there's going to be a brand-new team, christi, of attorneys that will be assigned to this case because they want a fresh set of eyes. as joey has explained, there is issue after issue after issue, no stone will be, you know -- no stone will be left unturned. and they're just going to lawyer this thing until they can't lawyer it anymore. and that's going to cost a lot of money. >> alrighty. joey jackson and mel robbins, appreciate your insight here. thank you. >> a pleasure. have a great day, christi. look at this, a little girl dragged by her school bus.

look at the top of the screen. the first question is, how could this have happened but why wasn't it stopped sooner? witnesses say it went on for at least the length of a football field. we've got more on this disturbing incident. plus the multimillionaire candidate, hillary clinton discusses how many millions of dollars she and her husband have made in the year past. we'll get into that and what it meant for her campaign next. helps prevent early skin aging and skin cancer, all with the cleanest feel. it's the best for your skin. neutrogena® ultra sheer. it's the beugh... your skin. ...heartburn. did someone say burn? try alka seltzer reliefchews. they work just as fast and are proven to taste better than tums smoothies assorted fruit. mmm... amazing. yeah, i get that a lot. alka seltzer heartburn reliefchews. enjoy the relief. the uncertainties i don't wantof hep c.with or wonder... ...whether i should seek treatment.

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here on the east coast. we've got two unbelievable pieces of video out of atlanta and louisville. first up, this video from atlanta. it shows the scary moment when a freight train hit a city bus. this was on wednesday. can you imagine? one passenger was seriously injured. according to transportation officials six people were taken to the hospital, including that driver. watch it again here. east point police are looking for the driver of a red pickup who stopped in front of the bus before the crash. that incident is still under investigation. this is horrifying video out of louisville, kentucky, that's a little girl there being dragged for about 100 feet by that school bus. a car races alongside trying to get this bus to stop. affiliate wave has more for us. >> reporter: surveillance video shows a little girl dragged by her school bus during her valley

street. watch it in realtime. you'll see that red chevy camaro spinning up. >> i saw this car going by. >> the neighbor said they shot the driver was doing something wrong. >> the reason why that car was racing was to stop the bus because they'd seen it. >> reporter: the camaro driver finally got the bus to stop. neighbors went to the girl described as being 5 or 6 years old. >> i went over and she was conscious. >> reporter: jps now says the incident is under investigation. >> i just couldn't believe he drug her from that corner down to here without knowing. >> reporter: police say the little girl was getting off the school bus when her backpack got stuck in the door of the bus. neighbors say the dragging went on for at least the length of a football field. a witness does say that the girl didn't appear to be badly

hurt. >> she's okay. >> she's okay, yeah. we're learning just how much bill and hillary clinton have made in the past year and a half from paid speeches and the sales of mrs. clinton's book "hard choices." it's a lot. there's a hint for you. we'll reveal just how much after the break. and what this could mean for hillary clinton's white house hopes. there's a new list of america's wheezeiest sneezeiest cities. and it takes into account not just pollen but ozone, because both of those things can make it difficult for people to breathe. coming in at number 5, chattanooga, tennessee. then philadelphia, pennsylvania. then oklahoma city, oklahoma. then memphis. and the number one sneezeiest, wheezeiest cities in the united states is richmond, virginia. but there's sneezing and wheezing going on in more places

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all right, hillary and bill clinton have made more than $30 million since january of last year. $30 million. that's according to a financial disclosure form provided to cnn. more than 25 million came from paid speeches by both clintons. mrs. clinton has made more than $5 million from her book "hard choices." let's talk about the money. let's get into it with cnn political commentator maria cardona and republican strategist lisa booth. maria, start with you.

good morning to both of you. >> good morning. >> i remember back to, i don't know, 2012. and the argument that was made against mitt romney. does hillary clinton have a mitt romney problem? would this have been okay if we were talking about mitt romney then? >> oh, no, victor. let's make one thing very clear here. americans, including democrats, have never begrudged other people making a lot of money. i even said this when i was talking about mitt romney. it wasn't the fact that he made a lot of money, for him, it was two things. how he made the money by closing factories, breaking down companies and putting people out of work and the second one is what were the policies that he was advocating if he were to become president. that is still a huge problem for republicans. you can't point to one single policy, victor, today or frankly in the past that republican nominees or people that have led the republican party have advocated for that will level the playing field for struggling

americans, working class families and middle class families the same way that democrats have. including bill clinton who frankly raised taxes on millionaires and billionaires and the biggest corporations in this country and that is how he balanced the budget when he was in office. and president obama has advocated the same policies and hillary clinton will advocate the same policies. add to that the fact that republicans now want to talk about income and equality when they still can't even support minimum wage increases or equal pay for equal work for women. and it's laughable that this would even be an issue for hillary clinton, who is going to be the one that will be fighting for middle class and working class americans. >> all right, so, lisa, let's talk about. americans are aspirational. everyone likes to plan for a future where they live better than at the moment. what is wrong with mrs. clinton living well? >> it's not the wealth that is problematic for hillary clinton, the hypocrisy on the issue that is the problem. hillary clinton is someone who has called for toppling the 1%,

but she's part of the 1%. she's criticized the pay disparity between ceos and workers and she has no problem taking their money or making over $300,000 per speech. frankly it's no wonder that the top 1% like hillary clinton so much according to cnn poll, 53% of millionaires would vote for hillary clinton because they know she has their best interest at heart. she does have a mitt romney problem. she is seemingly very out of touch. this is someone who said we are dead broke despite an $8 million advance on a book deal leaving the white house. she is not like the truly well off. it is not the welt that is problematic for hillary clinton, it is the hypocrisy. >> let me get to jeb bush. i want to talk about the obviously rough week he has had in answering the question if he would make the decision to go into iraq. the question was initially asked

as knowing what we know now. let's listen to the iterations of the answer over the week. >> i would have. so would have hillary clinton just to remind everybody. >> in 20/20 hindsight, you would make a different decision? >> yeah. i don't know what that decision would have been. that's a hypothetical. but mistakes were made. as they always are in life. >> given the power of looking back and having that, of course, anybody would have made different decisions. >> we're all supposed to answer hypothetical questions. knowing what we know now, what would you have done? i would have not engaged and i would not have gone into iraq. >> lisa, the campaign had to anticipate one question going into this cycle. it would be that question. how could he not have an answer that was clear can concise and something that was understandable from inmomethe m he said it? >> victor, you're absolutely

right. this is the one policy question that he should have absolutely anticipated. it's problematic he didn't. i think that's why you also saw other candidates like marco rubio and ted cruz quickly distance themselves from jeb bush's original answer. become increasingly frustrated with the fact that hillary clinton continues to get a free pass on the policy issues. she refuses to take big stances on trade and also flip-flopped on issues like iraq, immigration, gay marriage and criminal justice. quite frankly what i think the media should be talking about and people questioning her on her cheerleading and defense of obama withdrawing troops. >> and we will ask about those items, but this segment was about jeb bush. maria, jeb bush stumbling over this answer. is it opening the answer to walker, rubio and cruz or is it he so far ahead in fund-raising that this isn't going to be a big problem? >> of course it opens the door,

victor, for all of those other opponents. and, frankly, this puts a new light on the notion of being between a rock and a hard place. i actually feel bad for him because he clearly said he doesn't want to criticize his brother or his father and the fact of the matter is this is the third time that we have seen him either waffle or tell us that he, the first one was he had advisors that were the same ones as his brother has. the second one was when he said to a group of donors that he listen to his brother as the biggest adviser on the middle east. both of which are very problematic, not just for the majority of the american people that know going to iraq was a complete and other u other disa. and hillary appaologized for it by the way. but jeb bush has not been able to do that. so, again -- >> we have to wrap it up.

>> the third part of a foreign policy recipe disaster that the american people want no part of. it's going to be a huge problem for him. >> maria thank you so much. lisa, thank you, too. required break before the top. christi. >> coming up in the next hour, an update to the story that "new day" had been following very closely. this reunion of a mom and daughter that has led to dozens of women wondering if their babies that they were told died in child birth could actually be alive. officials in st. louis are now investigating. it's taken a turn here. what they're doing now to get these moms some answers. that's next hour, which starts right after this break.

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new this morning the fbi now investigating the amtrak crash in philadelphia. plus new details regarding the engineer's schedule the day of that crash. plus, a death sentence for the boston marathon bomber, but could an automatic appeal keep dzhokhar tsarnaev alive for years or decades? new help for mothers looking for their babies who may have been stolen during the 1950s and '60s. the st. louis city council now calling for the release of all records from a st. louis hospital. this is cnn breaking news. we're starting with breaking news this morning. good morning to you here in the u.s. and our viewers joining us from around the world. a u.s. special forces operation took place in syria today.

>> pentagon correspondent barbara starr is on the phone with us. barbara, what do you know this morning? >> good morning, christi and victor. this is a stunning u.s. special operations deep into syria, deep into isis territory. overnight, a number of u.s. special operation forces conducted a helicopter raid into eastern syria to capture a man named abu saef. he was killed in the raid. he was a senior isis leader who was not just known as heavy isis oil and gas operations where they get so much of their funding from, but believed to be directly and increasingly involved in isis commanding control operations. this information coming to us at cnn from sources familiar with what happened on the ground in eastern syria overnight. all the u.s. troops returned

safely, we are told. what happened is they flew by helicopter into this area in eastern syria. they went to a residence where they say, where, obviously, they knew he was. a firefight ensued. he fought back. he was killed at that point, but they were able to capture his wife, an iraqi woman named um saef. she is believed to be involved in operations and human trafficking. a lot of concern as to what she may know about the human trafficking and various human operations that isis engages in. they also captured a good deal of, obviously, belongings, information, intelligence from this operation and they hope to

interrogate her now and go through everything they got as they often do when they conduct these raids. they scoop up everything they can find and getting some valuable intelligence about what isis is up to. but, behind all of that, i think you can't really overstate how unusual this is for u.s. troops to go by helicopter, to go deep into syria to be involved in a firefight like this and to be able to get out, everybody got out, we are told. the only similar operation that took place was several months ago. that was that operation to try to recover some u.s. hostages. president obama signing off on that as he would have with this one because, clearly, the administration believing it was worth the risk. so, again, u.s. special operation forces. we are talking some of the most elite u.s. forces in the u.s.

military engaging in this helicopter raid overnight deep into syria. one top isis leader killed and his wife also heavily involved in isis operations captured. undergoing interrogation back in iraq. christi, victor. >> barbara, have you heard anything regarding any intel on hostages that they may be looking for, as well, if they had gotten that deep into syrian territory? >> yeah, the sources who were familiar with this, with what did happen on the ground overnight say that they did also capture and free what we are being told is woman who was being held by them. the a minority sect in that region that had suffered so terribly at the hands of isis. probably too soon to say what

she may know, but they are, obviously, going to talk to her and find out what she knows, what she has seen, what she may be able to tell them. this is very delicate business because if the wife was involved in human trafficking operations as they clearly believe she was, the issue will be when they interrogate her, does she in fact know anything about any of the western hostages, u.s. hostages or any of the hostages that isis has captured over the months, treated so brutally and even killed. so, they're going to want to find out everything this woman may know. >> i wonder if there has been any indication of the notification or the cooperation of the syrian government here. we know they, too, have been

fighting isis. were they notified before this? do we know yet? >> to be candid, we don't know that yet. i think it would be very doubtful that they would get any notification. what i should mention enthese types of u.s. commando operations what happens is that the u.s. will also send up what they call air cover. there will be fighter jets overhead. there will be reconsense assets and there will be jamming of communication. they would have had aircraft overhead to keep an eye out if there were any syrian regime forces in the area. possibly, but doubtful, because this particular area of eastern syria, it is very much held by isis, not some place the regime would have, would have been in

very recently. but you basically point, there were additional, this notion of it was the commanders on the ground that went enand conduin conducted the operation and there are assets overhead, keeping watch, able to make sure that as and if the u.s. troops came under fire, they could support them by any other means, dropping bombs, engaging in ground fire. those u.s. special operations forces would have had a lot of back up to be able to conduct their mission and get out. but i think the other thing behind the scenes here, again, is what is right in front of us face that no one is saying to send u.s. operation forces this deep into syria on this risky mission, the intelligence, where

did it come from? how did the u.s. know that this isis leader would be at that point, at that exact point in time that he would be at that location? because when the u.s. troops took off enthein their helicopt would have had intelligence that he was right there. the u.s. had some sort of specific intelligence realtime intelligence about what is going on in certain places in syria because they went in knowing he'd be there. the bigger question is, how did they know? >> barbara starr, stay with us. what is your reaction to this, first of all? >> well, what it tells you is the united states special operations command is always in a state of combat. ready to conduct operations like this. i mean, it takes place behind the scenes, but it's diligent, detailed work that goes on. which is, as barbara described

so very well, the constant search for the right pieces of intelligence. and ensuring that it is confirmable and other means of intelligence that will wrap around it and then it's the confluence of all of this. you have a picture and then you determine whether it's late in intelligence, whether it's timely and then you make a go, no go decision. that's what special ops guys do all the time. 24/ 7. they're never off duty. >> the breaking news from cnn pentagon correspondent barbara starr u.s. operation forces conducting this raid deep into syria overnight and captured abu saef. want to come to you. this man was in charge of isis oil and gas operations. obviously, a major income stream, a revenue stream for isis. we were talking all morning about isis being on the defensive now.

the specific of this kill. >> what it tells us the united states and its coalition partners, this could not have taken place without some cooperation from some other enti entities. clearly, the operation was staged out of iraq. we have to assume that. and that there was cooperation by other parties in order to get this intelligence. there probably were sources that were on the ground that had to do the human intelligence conformation. what you want to do with an organization like isis is you want to take the initiative and the momentum out of their hands. right now they choose the time and the place where they want to engage. i mean, you take what took place today and you juxtapose that with what's going on in ramadi in iraq and you realize isis has chosen the momentum and has the momentum and chose on the place of engagement in iraq and ramadi and keeps the iraqi security forces on their heels.

but the united states reserves the right, in this particular instance, to go after a known target, confirmable intelligence and then kill the guy, capture his wife, who is also involved in the organization. so now we're into interrogations to find out what she knows and how that can be used very, very quickly. you want to put isis on its heels. >> that's what i want to ask you, general. how likely is it that this wife will talk that un sayyaf will talk and try to give any information to an intelligence to the u.s. about other hostages and operations itself? >> you have to assume that the interrogation that was taking place would be edone professionally and be done quickly. they'll have to get her into a position where she feels vulnerable and that she has no other alternative but to talk. this will not be, this needs to be a very serious, very focused

interrogation. because of her proximity to her husband, her former husband and her knowledge of activities of isis. this is a great intelligence find for the united states. they made this happen. and we want to be able to put isis on its heels. but bear in mind, this is a long-term engagement. one strike like this doesn't alter the playing, you know, the deck of the cards too significantly unless you can extract that intelligence from her. >> all right. we've got nick payton walsh joining us from beirut. nick, we talked a bit about abu sayyaf and the leader of the oil and gas resource that isis has overtaken. tell us the value, the u.s. being able to pull this off in syria sending special forces in overnight, not just the air strikes that have been going on. but going to this level of operation to get this leader. >> in truth, it does leave me

some degree puzzled because in terms of what we're hearing about him has a key role in how isi functioned and energy assets and how he makes money. he is not somebody you would normally recognize in the top four or five leaders and a substantial risk of the pentagon being willing to, but if you're aware of the person's whereabouts the drone strikes and seizing his wife and a reason i would imagine to put dozens of potentially best special forces troops at risk so far deep in isis held territory. leaves you with a number of potential questions. is this, i very much doubt it, to advance in ramadi. they wouldn't put american lives at risk. is this the beginning of a new series of operations potentially whenever we see more moments when the u.s. is willing it put assets on the ground to take out key isis leadership or more

plausible option was there somebody perhaps, slightly more significant who was supposed to be there. was there an american citizen? we're not aware of any isis hands at this time but many things do happen. it leaves a lot of questions for me, frankly. a decision to strike at a target like that. not really high profile enough and far inside isis territory. i wonder if barbara is still on the phone with us. barbara, are you there? >> barbara starr, barbara starr is still with us. you are, barbara, aren't you? >> yeah, hi, again. >> i think nick had a question for you. >> i was fascinated hearing your reporting. the indication from anybody that this was the man they were after or whether they thought, perhaps, the familiar names. we've seen them on the wanted list. and endless reports he has been injured by your sources and others we have spoken to, too. the spokesperson, anointed after

the big number two operation and be out of the picture. many more significant names that you might think a raid of this quite substantial risk would be aimed at trying to kill or capture. i am just wondering, barbara, if you had any indication of anyone else potentially who was in their crosshairs who just turned out not to be here? >> at the moment, there is no indication that you've pointed to the exact question which is if president obama would have been the one to sign off on an operation like this. he would know all about it. why would the president go for this type of risk? one of the things that, again, our sources familiar with what happened on the ground overnight in syria are telling us is this man increasingly, the belief is, was involved in isis command and control.

if you start with the proposition that abu bagadi the top leader, not necessarily, we don't know if he's hurt, but certainly he is in deep, deep hiding knowing the u.s. is trying to come after him. he may not be able to be, we are told, in total day-to-day command, delegating some authority. this guy, we are told, had been increasingly taking the control in command and control. the u.s. clearly had kept his name out of the spotlight, not putting him on any most wanted list. suddenly telling us he's the one that they were going after. the issue with his wife and human trafficking and hostages, that is a very sensitive issue that, indeed, they are going to interrogate her about. they want to know everything she knows. what does she know?

what does she know about any of it? a few moments ago secretary of defense we're getting this in just now, ash carter, put out a statement saying and let me just quote a little bit. the secretary of defense saying, quoting, last night at the direction of the commander enchiein chief, president obama, order special operation forces to conduct an operation in eastern syria going on, quoting, to capture an isis senior leader abu aayyaf and his wife. he was involved in operations and help direct the terrorist organizations elicit oil, gas and financial operations. the statement goes on to say, acknowledgi acknowledging sayyaf was killed during this fire fight. the wife was captured and the secretary of defense saying this wife is suspected of, quoting,

she played an important role in isis terrorist activities and may have been complicit in what appears to be to be a young woman rescued last night. there is, again, some additional language thanking the troops. but this is a name that is not immediately familiar to many people who have been following isis. he was, however, someone we now know u.s. special operation forces, u.s. intelligence had been tracking very closely and clearly they felt it was worth the risk to go into syria and get them. >> we'll take a quick break. we'll have more on this breaking news. the u.s. special forces going into syria killing this top isis commander. capturing his wife, now interrogating her. we have with us pentagon correspondent barbara starr who is breaking this news first on cnn this morning. nick paton walsh on the phone

with us from beirut and also major general spider marks. quick break here on "new day." more in just a moment. the network that monitors her health. the secure cloud services that store her genetic data the servers and software on a mission to find the perfect match. and the mom who gets to hear her daughter's heart beat once again. we're helping organizations transform the way they work so they can transform the lives of the people they serve.

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cvs health, because health is everything. described as a stunning operation, thank you so much for being with us. want to get you updated on our breaking news here on how u.s. special forces conducted an operation deep into eastern syria overnight. and they have killed a senior leader of isis and captured his wife. his wife who is believed to be in part part of the operation of the human trafficking that isis has really shocked the world with. over the last year. we have with us major general spider marks, barbara starr, pentagon reporter and nick paton walsh. >> i want to read for you a portion of a statement that we just received from the secretary of defense ashton carter on this operation in syria.

and it starts out this, i'm going to read just a portion. last night i ordered u.s. special forces or special operation forces to conduct an operation in eastern syria to capture an isis senior leader known as abu sayyaf and his wife, um sayyaf. involved in military operation and elicit oil, gas and financial operations, as well. he was killed and during the course of the operation when he engaged u.s. forces. the u.s. forces captured um sayyaf who we suspect is a member and played a role in terrorist activities and may have been complicit in what was the enslavement of a young woman rescued last night. straight out to barbara starr. barbara, we have reported here, you have reported so many of the air strikes, the drone strikes that have killed senior isis leaders. this was an operation to capture

this senior leader and nick brings up the point of, was he worth the risk to u.s. special forces to go in and capture abu sayyaf and his wife, um sayyaf? >> well, you know, this is, this is the question that when the president signs off on an operation, he asks his commanders and i think we now know very much that the president did sign off on it because the statement from the secretary of defense begins with the words, at the direction of the commander in chief. so, we know the president signed off on this and the president would have been briefed by the pentagon, by the cia, by the intelligence community on what their goals were. why they thought it was worth the risk of u.s. military lives

to go into syria. not just go for a drone strike but go in and capture him on the ground certainly with the anticipation that the u.s. forces would wind up getting into a firefight in this part of syria. they were going right into, you know, isis territory. this was going to be very much a contested area. they would have had to assumed going in. so, why would it have been so important? why don't we know about this man? why isn't he one of the big names that everybody is talking about? we are led to believe that they had been following his activities for some time. that they increasingly believed that he had become involved in operational matters of isis. not just the oil and gas. though that was significant and combining that with his wife's alleged activities and human trafficking. this was clearly, by all accounts, an intelligence target

that they were going after. they wanted to get them, they wanted to get all their belongings that they could scoop up and mind all of that through interrogation and looking at what they captured to get as much intelligence as they could. her activities in what is being called human trafficking and potential hostage operations, something the u.s. is going to want to know everything this woman knows about it. not a household name. that's very clear. not a household name. but very much a very high-value target inside the pentagon, inside the cia. somebody that everybody thought it was worth going after to get. >> barbara, we just received a statement from the white house on this operation. actually a statement by spokesperson bernadette on the operation in syria. much of the statement reiterates what we heard in the statement from the secretary of defense,

ash carter. here's a portion that stands out. the president authorized this operation upon the unonmous recommendation of his national security team and as soon as we had developed sufficient intelligence and we're confident the mission could be carried out successfully, the operation was conducted with the full consent of the iraqi authorities and like existing air strikes, consistent with the domestic and international law. so, something that the entire national security team was onboard with. i want to come to you, major general spider marks, if we still have you. >> still here, victor. >> still with us. and you say that this is like taking out the cfo. taking out the money guy. >> yeah. he's the money guy, based on what we know his portfolio held. that's an important move. and like any other cfo o, the cfo probably exerts a little more control than just exclusively over the checkbook. but in this particular case, if

the discussion is between drone strike and what took place, which is the insertion of special ops individuals on the ground and try to extract him. in this case, we got his wife. there must have been a cd, a collateral damage type of a discussion. where the drone strike might have had an enhanced probability of collateral damage against civilians and others that might have been in the proximity of where this location was. and, so, in order to be that much more precise, you enhance the risk by putting soldiers on the ground, individuals on the ground. but you do it with all the levels of risk mitigation put in place. so, you reach a certain threshold and the president makes the determination based on his national security council's input. that entire team said, let's do this. based on what they knew in terms of the intelligence, the target, the distance and all the factors involved and they made the determination. so, i think it's a significant strike, obviously.

but much more to be done. you have to exploit now the intelligence that this, that this individual's wife has. >> but there's no underestimating the fact that this came directly from the president. he commanded this operation. we want to or ord oered this operation. we want to go straight to the white house. what are you hearing about this this morning? >> well, christi, you're absolutely right. according to the national security council spokeswoman who just released a lengthy statement. they did confirm that this raid was ordered that direction of president obama. and in a statement they say that the president authorized the operation with unanimous with his national security team. as soon as they developed significant intelligence and confident the mission could be carried out they say successful and consistent with requirements for undertaking such an operation. in this statement from the national security council, they call abusayyaf a senior leader,

one that oversaw their elicit oil and gas operations by isis. and they also say thee was involve would the military operations. what barbara starr has been reporting all this morning. his wife, the one that was captured in this raid, someone who played an important role in isis terrorist activities, according to the statement from nse and may have been implicit in the woman that was rescued last night. in this statement from the national security council they say the president is grateful ""for the brave u.s. personnel who carried out this complex mission." and they underscore it was done with iraqi authorities and thank the iraqi authorities for their support in the mission. christi, victor? >> thank you. i want to go to nick paton walsh in beirut. let's talk about um sayyaf, the

wife that was captured here and who it was believed had very strong ties and operational, operational dealings when it comes to human trafficking. that's something we have been reporting on for a good year now. i think that's part of what has really captured the nation's attention, as well. and the world's attention to how horrific that situation is. how might her capture fracture that operation? >> very hard to tell at all, honestly, at this stage. isis are not traditionally an organization that bring their wives into the operations. it may well be that she has knowledge and she is the exception and deeply involved in her husband's activities. both their names sayyaf means the father and we don't have a great amount of detail as to precisely who they are at this stage, apart from what the pentagon is telling us that abu

sayyaf is deeply involved in the oil elements, deeply profitable. but i go back to the point we were making a few minutes ago. this is an extraordinary high-risk operation for barack obama to sign off on personally. i cannot see that it would have been put into play had they not felt a senior recognizable isis figure at the place they were going to hit or a hostage at some description. obviously this woman has been freed from slavely and taken away and sayyaf, always questionable what voluntary nature people in isis particularly when they're female. also good, potentially, she's out of the isis area, as well. we are in a complex moment here because abu sayyaf is not a household name and this is an operation of extraordinary risk. dozens of the top end u.s. special operators flown deep inside isis held territory and

also where the syrian regime and it's very complicated, indeed. at this stage, if their initial result expected was the death of abu sayyaf a relatively minor target. yes, isis leadership is a black box. it is hard to know exactly who is pulling the strings at what. public figures that appear on social media, and abadi the top leader and in public himself. abu sayyaf is a key player, but i'm still struggling to work out. if you look at the history of the bin laden raid. they should bomb the compound where they believed he was or risk and sending into isis territory with the special force they sent him without. this is an extraordinarily high-stakes mission at this stage. i'm sure more information will come it light on what else may have been on the table here when

these forces were sent in or mark a new era of american boots on the ground. i highly doubt that. this is a specific complex target. according to information we are hearing from eyewitnesses proceeded by potential bombings. ahead of any attack in a military sense. but one in which it seems the highest levels of the pentagon have been involved and that's a very rare occurrence when it comes to syria. we hear reports of special forces advising people inside syria and being in the mix, generally, but nothing like this level of incursion and this level of risk and the senorty to send these men into harm's way. for what at this stage is not a target. when you hear his name, okay, i understand why that happened. it's complex to comprehend immediately. >> high risk, high resource. i want to take that sentiment from nick and hand it over to the general mark purtling and

add this to it. what we know about isis is that there is often a deputy that will step up and take the position of head of the oil and gas fields and that income revenue, that income source. so, it doesn't surprise you that the coalition, the u.s., would invest so much in getting this one person. and the cupping, indeed. >> not at all, victor. we're talking high risk, high resources, yes. but we're also seeing potentially high payback. i understand a lot of folks saying, hey, we never heard of this guy. i would suggest, let me take you into a room at special operation command headquarters or any operational headquarters. they are going to have a network diagram on their walls or on their computer. in each area of that network diagram there are individuals that affect a various line of operation and seven strategic lines of operation in the president's strategy to defeat isis. financial is one of those areas. so, if you get, as my good

friend spider marks says, if you get the cfo of an organization, not easily replaceable. very different from an operational commander who is the battlefield guy, who knows how to fight and who's got the charismatic leadership. if you get the individual who is running the dollars, who is running the money and who knows how the systems operate and who knows where the cash is flowing, that's a key achilles' heel for isis. you're talking about the way they pay their fighters. the way they run their government. i mean, i could suggest, you know, we don't know who abu sayyaf is and most americans don't know the main cabinet officials in the united states that runs the treasury or cabinet either. guys who are working in the shadows but who really run the organization under the control of the operational commander there. >> but let's separate the decision to go after abu sayyaf and the decision to go after him in this way. i mean, when we learned from the

joint task force there if there were air strikes in syria over a 24-hour period, specifically talking about this time period. this could have been a drone strike or an air strike but to send special forces in and abu sayyaf fought back against these special forces, this could have been a tragedy. let's talk about that portion of the decision to go after -- >> go back to what you said before, victor. a high pay off for a high risk. that's what special operation forces do. these are the quiet professionals and some of those other bombings were different targets or multiple targets. this is a guy we want and to include his wife. i go back to that link diagram that spider can talk more about since he is the intelligence expert on our team and he has done many of these things before in combat. when you pull one thread, especially on a high-level guy and his wife who could be

running, who could be running the operation to, you know, as we've seen in the news recently, so many recruitment efforts of women and people coming across the turkish border, you not only get the operational requirements for the cfo, the money laundering and the money exchange, but you could get a key source on how you recruit people. boy, i mean, that's huge. >> yeah, general hertling, talking about that. that is something we talked about. you said earlier, general hertling, you can't kill your way out of this because the recruitment of isis is so strong. you're right, this is high risk. but we may have possibly the u.s. may have high reward here. again, if you're just joining us just taget you updated here. a stunning u.s. raid deep into syrian territory. a senior leader of isis has been killed. the wife of that senior leader has been captured. a woman has been freed and about

a dozen isis fighters were ki. it was very surprising and we'll have more right after the break. ♪ ♪ at chase, we celebrate small businesses every day through programs like mission main street grants. last years' grant recipients are achieving amazing things. carving a name for myself and creating local jobs. creating more programs for these little bookworms. bringing a taste of louisiana to the world. at chase, we're proud to support our grant recipients, and small businesses like yours. so you can take the next big step. [car engine] ♪

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joining us from around the world, moving forward on the breaking news this morning, the u.s. special forces overnight in syria conducted a raid that

ended with the death of a senior isis leader abu sayyaf they captured his wife, um sayyaf. a yazidi woman that was held has been freed. we know also that 12 isis fighters were killed in this raid. we now have peter berger joining us. >> cnn senior national analyst peter, first of all, your reaction to this raid because everybody we talked to it is in their words, stunning. >> well, i mean, it's happened before but with a slightly different outcome. on july 4th of last year u.s. special operations went to syria trying to rescue the american hostages and the de facto capital of isis in syria. the intelligence was not, you know, basically, the hostages have been moved before the raid took place. so, this is not unprecedented

and if we go back to the george w. busheria a eara we also saw special operations going into syria to attack members of al qaeda and iraq who, of course, is the parpt organizatient orga isis. this is unusual, bunot unprecedented. >> what in your vision is the impact on the ability for isis to continue to fund operations on the organizational plan for isis. often there is a deputy who is ready to step in and take over. do you think this will have some major impact? >> i think, victor, the answer there is what the special operators take out in the course of the raid. i mean, taking out the guy who runs the leader, the most important financing stream is not insignificant. but what is really significant is the records of the computer

records and all the materials he would have with him. if, indeed, that is the case that he is that important. and i think being able to piece together with documents, which is why you have a special operations raid, not a bombing mission. the point of this operation is to gather the intelligence that exists. there might have been some fear of collateral damage. clearly, there was a civilian that was in the building. the yazidi hostage and more importantly what you pick up on the raid. we know from the bin laden raid, thousands, if not tens of thousands of documents were picked up and some of them have been publicly released. so, it's the intelligence that accounts in part for the fact that you have boots on the ground. >> peter, in a short term and real quickly here, will a move like this embolden isis, dayo y

think? or break or fracture some parts of it? >> i think they are going to be, christi, more cognizant of the fact that being a lot more careful about the way they organize themselves because of air strikes. they're not going around syria in armored columns visible from the air as they have once. so, i think it kind of increases their risk calculation in the sense that this is unusual. it's not unprecedented. and they're going to be looking over their shouldera in a slightly different way today and forward. >> do we have barbara back with us? not yet, okay. so, let me come to you with this, peter. should we expect more of this, do you believe? >> well, you know, we had a good discussion of the risk of these operations and the president is not surprising that the president signed off. he would sign off on any kind of operation like this that involved special operators on the ground. so, i didn't think this is going

to be routine, but we've already seen two in the past year or so. but, i'm sure this won't be the last. >> all right, peter bergen joining us as cnn national security analyst. we'll take a quick break. again, the breaking news this morning that u.s. special operation forces conducted an operation in syria that captured the wife of abu sayyaf, um sayyaf. abu sayyaf was killed. he was in charge of oil and gas fields. a revenue stream for the organization. there was a yazidi woman who was held, she has been taken now and is with the u.s. forces. and 12 isis fighters were killed in this operation. peter bergen reminds us what we is not heard about, all the intelligence, the papers, the computers, all that information about the organizational strength of isis has likely been

taken, as well, and could lead to more operations. we'll talk more about this in just a moment. but, again, the breaking news here on cnn. stay with us. let's take a look at your credit. >>i know i have a 786 fico score, thanks to all the tools and help on experian.com. so how are we going to sweeten this deal? floor mats... clear coats... >>you're getting warmer... leather seats... >>and this... my wife bought me that. get your credit swagger on.

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helicopter, thanks to a u.s. operations special forces and they have killed one of the senior isis leaders, abu sayyaf. he was believed to be directly involved in the control of oil and gas fields and their financial operations with isis, as well as captures his wife, um sayyaf who is believed to be in control or involved in the human trafficking element that we have so often talked about here and around the world over the last year. in conjunction with isis. they have freed a yazidi woman who is being held hostage. we have with us major general spider marks, nick paton walsh in beirut and general mark hertling with us. >> let's start with what we're hearing from the national security council. a statement released relating to the decision to execute this operation. >> well, that's right, victor.

the national security council just releasing a rather lengthy statement in which they called this mission complex and confirmed that president obama signed off himself on this mission. the decision to make this raid overnight. and they say that decision was made in unanimous consent, recommendation from his national security team here at the white house. they say as soon as there was sufficient intelligence developed and once they were confident that the mission could be carried out successfully. again, the national security council saying it was a complex mission. they call abu sayyaf one senior isis leader noting that he oversaw the oil and gas operations and also included in this statement, specific reference to um, his wife, that was captured that she also played an important role in terrorist activities by isis. this statement by the nse also confirms that the wife, um, is

being held and detained in iraq right now where presumably she will be interrogated, potentially getting more valuable intelligence about what isis is up to. i should say earlier this week in a newspaper interview, president obama talked about the campaign against isis and syria. he said he will remain relentless in our campaign to degrade safe haven within syria as part of our broader campaign to destroy isol. the national security spokes woman saying that president obama thanked the brave personnel that carried out this mission. >> nick, you know, it's interesting when you look at the timing of things. we have this raid that has just come out that has just happened. but also then this morning the expeditious delivering, we're told, from vice president biden who told this to abadi, expediting weapons to iraq so they can try to hold on to ramadi which is in influx and in

danger of falling to isis right now. when you look at how the u.s. is really putting both feet forward in this right now, nick, what does that say to you? >> well, certainly, the ramadi still contested right now would have been an enormous blow to the move against isis and iraq. a sure sign that the iraqi government was not able to fulfill its promise in targeting anbar province in its campaign against the extremist group and that expeditious delivery and weaponry, it's all about answering the question you often hear it from iraqi security forces, which is where are our supplies. some often some say they simply chosen to abandon rather than fight and be used as an excuse. there is something here, really, in terms of u.s. positioning. this certainly is a rage which

the u.s. is still willing to accept. figure out why that level of risk is entertained. turns out sayyaf is a mastermind of the finances of isis that could explain this level of risk. it also, does, too, throw the u.s. when isis are gaining territory in ramadi again and the campaign is losing steam. here we have the united states against the key extremist figure like abu sayyaf and his wife, um sayyaf. meaning the father of sayyaf and the mother of sayyaf respectively. we know they are the children of a called sayyaf and a real name should at some point come out of the white house or the pentagon at some point. bear in mind, too, barack obama just played host to a number of senior figures from gulf allies, saudi arabia, kutar who come to the white house to hear security assurances from the white house

to talk about how the nuclear deal with iran. dozen mean necessarily abandoning the gulf allies. offset of the notion getting closer together and here we is this military move investing resources of individuals in the region to hit a particular target. that, perhaps, would answer those who say the u.s. is asleep at the wheel, not militarily involved on the ground right now inside syria, iraq and this particular fight. perhaps still go back to the original point. it was abu sayyaf for this level of risk. rescuing hostages and being about a specific thing which the american public understand the operation to go wrong. the white house putting out information about who abu sayyaf was. this tells you how well in the shadows he was as a key mastermind or perhaps a mastermind therefore who didn't turn out to be there. >> nick paton walsh for us in

beirut. ash carter, secretary of defense, also pointing out in addition to his involvement, his leadership of the oil and gas fields and the financial operations that abu sayyaf was involved in isis's military operations, as well. we're going to get to our generals, general mark hertling and general spider marks to talk about the implications. but, again, on the breaking news this morning of this operation conducted by special operation forces conducted overnight in syria killing abu sayyaf and capturing his wife, um sayyaf and taken to iraq and now will be interrogated. quick break. we'll be back.

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bringing it pack to our breaking news here about this raid in syria. i want to get to general mark hertling. first and foremost, general hertling, talking about the oil reserves and the money involved in this and how this kill, this senior leader who was in charge of all of that has been killed now. what kind of money are we talking about when we talk about these oil fields? >> we're talking hundreds of millions, christi. your question to peter bergen was a fascinating one. how does this affect things? not only the killing of the individual who could be potentially a key player in the oil resources, but now all the guys who deal with him. the ones that are taking his phone calls are all saying, holy smokes. if they find intelligence at the scene, if they have his computer, they know who i am now. a lot of the connections are going to dry up.

and spider can probably talk about that. >> let's talk about that. a lot of what we heard from peter bergen, the documents, the computers are the real value here? >> what we have now is a target list, if you will, as mark described where all the revenue is coming from. all those folks engaged in these revenue-producing activities with isis are looking over their shoulder. they need to be. because we've already demonstrated the capability that this is an important target. >> yeah. all right, generals, thank you so much for helping us understand theism kz alls of this breaking news. our coverage continues now. we'll send it to michael smerconish and we'll be back here at 10:00 eastern. >> we'll see you then. ♪ woman: whoa. ♪ ♪

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families just like yours with wills and living trusts. so when you're ready, start with us. doing the right thing has never been easier. legalzoom. legal help is here. this is cnn breaking news. i'm michael summmerconish. we begin with breaking news. killed a senior isis command during a raid to capture him. no u.s. personnel were killed or injured during the attack that took place inside isis territory. let's get to james spider marks. general, who was abu sayyaf. >> abu sayyaf was the cfo for is i is. he was responsible for all the oil and gas revenue and also creeping up in the organizational structure as having a very large