like yours with wills and living trusts. so when you're ready start with us. doing the right thing has never been easier. legalzoom. legal help is here. this is cnn breaking news. i'm michael summermerconish. we begin with breaking news. killed a senior isis command during a raid to capture him. no u.s. personnel were killed or injured during the attack that took place inside isis territory. let's get to james spider marks. general, who was abu sayyaf. >> abu sayyaf was the cfo for is irx is. he was responsible for all the oil and gas revenue and also creeping up in the organizational structure as having a very large command and

control portfolio, as well. so this was a significant hit this morning. >> the white house, of course has said that we would not put boots on the ground in syria, it seems like we just did that. have we established a new precedent? >> oh, no. these boots were look let's not call them boots. these are special operators that went after a very high-value target eliminated the target and were able to come back safely with abu sayyaf's wife um sayyaf who is the deputy to her former husband. this was a high-risk, high-reward operation executed phenomenally. >> in other words, you're saying there could be great military significance. intelligence gathered from the wife. >> absolutely correct. the interrogation that will follow ing this is significant. that's kind of point number one. point number two, as a result of this raid special operators walked away with a lot of documents. a lot of information. hard drives, computers, et

cetera. we will go through, we, the intelligence community will go through that very very quickly to see if there is targetable intelligence proof of life of some other captors and what we'll be able to do is build a very strong very clear picture of what these revenue sources are that have continued to fund isis activities. >> it's just interesting that given the isis that in this particular case when it comes to terror activities women are afforded an equal playing field. they are put in position of authority? >> the irony of all of this you wonder what playbook you're looking at. it's not a playback within balanced rules. a level of barbarism behind their activities that we understand. it's difficult for us really to get our hands around it. but the operation that was conducted to go after him was clore ly clearly, you can't second guess the national security team. obviously, it worked out very very well. >> general, how replaceable is

he? it seems that isis or isol doesn't have the command struck thar that one would find say in the u.s. military? >> a battlefield commander someone who has been in the fight and someone who understands the dynamics of moving men and material across spaces and then engaging in some very specific operations those individuals can be replaced. but this is the cfo. this is the one who has been running all behind the scenes, has been running all the activities that fund what we see as a matter of routine. what isis puts out there. their activities that we see them routinely conducting. this is the one that creates the revenue so they can conduct these operations and this marketing arm that they are able to achieve. this is all now, hopefully, at risk because of this operation. >> general, please stand by. cnn's chief pentagon correspondent barbara starr is joining me now by phone. barbara, what's the latest from the pentagon on this?

>> well we have been talking, michael, to a number of sources that will say to you are directly familiar with the operation on the ground in syria overnight. now, while this man, abu sayyaf was in charge of oil and gas operations there may be other reasons they went after him. we need to remember that the u.s. assessment was he was increasingly involved in isis day-to-day operations, command and control. this is the key thing that the u.s. wanted to get some insight into. two sources telling me that there is reason to believe he may have been in some level of contact with the isis leader. we don't have details on that. but the fact that two sources familiar with the operation on the ground are able to tell us at cnn that there's reason to

believe he may have been in contact with badgdadi begins to shape the picture on why they were willing to risk u.s. troops to go get him. it wasn't just to get him, but his communication's equipment going into where he was as we have seen over the years in every one of these raids. trying to get the laptops, trying to get the cell phones and trying to get any intel material in a site to bring it back and exploit it and see what you can find out. we have a couple of other details to share with you. these u.s. special operations commando os we are told they were led by the u.s. army. there was a firefight, but i am now also told that there was hand-to-hand combat on the ground when this all erupted. that there were it was such

close quarters that some of the isis people on the ground tried to fight back with hand-to-hand combat in the u.s. army commandos, obviously, dealt with that situation very quickly. we are told about a dozen or so isis personnel on the ground killed by the u.s. commandos. abu sayyaf also fighting back against the u.s. troops and was killed in that. so i think it's beginning to take shape very rapidly lyly that we may all not have known about this man, but u.s. intelligence did. they were looking at him very closely and tracking him and beginning to see a picture emerge that he might have a lot of crucial information about top isis leadership and the command and control of isis and their operational activity and the

president citeit was absolutely worth it to go in and get it. >> do we know yet, barbara, which of our special forces successfully pulled off this mission? >> i will tell you that we are told it was army special operation forces and that usually is essentially defined as army delta force. these along with units like s.e.a.l. team 6 are the best trained, most covert highly trained commandos in the u.s. military. if you think about it these are the kinds of guys that go in deep into enemy territory. know that they're going to get in a firefight or try to. their goal is to go in quick as heavy and hot with rapid fire as they can. immediately control their perimeter. immediately control their

situation. get their objective, capture or kill and get out as fast as they can. it is the type of operation that killed osama bin laden. it is the type of operation that they have quietly done for many many years in places like afghanistan and iraq. in somalia, in yemen, in libya. this is what they do. and their rate of success last night was all of them came home safely. not to put a light note on it one u.s. guy had bloody knuckles from that hand-to-hand combat and other than that everybody came back fine. >> barbara, please stand by. this is a cnn exclusive. it's a small force. these are the first american boots on the ground in syria. yerl general marks, if i could go back to you momentarily. wouldn't you expect an operation such as this would have been

accomplished with the support of other nations and, if so which countries? >> clearly iraq. the operation was based out of northern iraq. which is the closest point that you'd have to stage. so the iraqi government clearly was cognizant and provided not only approval i would guarantee that they provided layers of support, as well that would allow the special operators to stage. the special operators have to come into country. if they are in country, they're totally covert as barbara described. they would be in very very briefly and have to stage and go through some immediate final rehearsals rehearsals. all that would have to be done with the support and the understanding and the support of the host nation. the iraqi government got behind this and supported it completely. we did nothing to try to clear the air space or try to clear anything with the government of syria. we took full advantage created a corridor went from iraq into syria and hit the target and came back out as quickly as possible. >> cnn military analyst

lieutenant general mark hertling is standing by i'd be thrilled to get your take on this breaking development of the significance of the killing of this isis leader. >> i'll just put it in perspective. when you get a chief financial guy, as spider has already said it is huge. it is one of the lines of operations. there are six, according to the national strategy. the economic piece is one of the more important ones. when you're talking about breaking down that network and finding some things out about not only how the money flows but who it flows to, it is really beneficial to have more information. special operation forces will pull the strings, not only on what they find from the data collected on the scene and the interrogations it will soon follow but also allow them to go after other targets. a hit like this will allow for many many more hits and it shows, also truthfully that isis isn't ten feet tall like some of us have been saying. they are being defeated.

one of the things that i'll just share a combat experience i had when i was commanding northern iraq in 2007, we hit a key target that really unraveled the financial elements of the beijing oil refinery and how it was supporting al qaeda. we not only gautgot the guys that were involved in that but we got the flow. when you get the flow and find out who is being connected and who else is involved and how the operational commanders are becoming a part of this, what funds and all through the money laundering line it is significant. it was the key thing that happened to me in 18 months in iraq during that particular tour. >> general hertling any individual within the isis command whose death, whose execution, such as we're now discussing in syria could break the back emotionally momentum wise for isis is that just not the way they function?

inthat's inthat's not the way they function michael. you have to go after networks. interesting to spider and i when we hear somebody say nobody knew who this guy was. special operation command or in a computer in a fusion cell somewhere not only abu sayyaf who is relatively popular among special operators, this is a good hit and a lot of people knew who he was who are wearing the uniform, but multiple other ones just like him. a target package being basically built on this guy, probably for months. i can't say specifically but i know when you're talking about strategic target there is all kinds of things in this particular target package on abu sayyaf and um sayyaf who will tell you why we want to go after him and put the resources against it. whenever you put american lives on the line there has to be a high payoff, especially when you go into syria. but, boy, a huge payoff from

this. financial, informational, operational is the way i would flow it. everybody's focused on the operational as primary. but, to me economic and informational are the two areas we need to go more after. >> general marks, on a prior mission, we were in syria and we did temporarily have boots on the ground that was a rescue mission. i guess the standard is that in special circumstances, the president is prepared to authorize the use of special forces but that there won't be a sustained campaign involving u.s. personnel. >> absolutely michael. the notion of boots on the ground is really all about trying to establish a presence over the course of time. when you conduct a special operations like this you are in and you are out as quickly as possible to get the job done. and as mark has described, this is a significant, very significant not cereenn serendipitous that we killed the cfo of isis and now we'll take this intelligence and do a lot with

it moving forward in terms of other targets we can go after moving forward. the flow can be dried up. we can really start to pick apart what it is that keeps these guys ticking. >> cnn senior international correspondent nick paton walsh is standing by in beirut. nick what is the preliminary word from overseas? >> according to the syrian who have been monitoring syria how this attack appeared to have left 19 isis militants dead. we're talking about one of the most closely guarded strongholds that isis has. a huge oil field, very well defended. so imagine taking the decision to send in to the heart of that dozens of america's special forces troops. very difficult, indeed. we heard from local witnesses after half past midnight local time a lot of airstrikes softening up the targets and

perhaps the insertion of potential forces troops and there is still, despite what we're hearing from the pentagon much of a case to be made why why abu saythis level of risk and may have known that isis leadership don't give themselves up necessarily without a fight. the white house or pentagon and his full name abu sayyaf means the father of a child called sayyaf and um means the mother of a child called sayyaf. more details on who this man is and that may shed more light on why they think he is so significant. one thing barbara did mention, that he may have been in contact with the isis leader. that could make complete sense. and you could imagine the white house had this gone terribly wrong seeing that perhaps taking out bagdadi, substantial risk. they were flying right into the viper's nest here and this is

not an easy task at all. i think we'll learn more details why abu sayyaf was so key or potentially what they were really after or what they felt he may lead them on to. suicide bombing isn't the call of their creed here. it's what they do. the notion, perhaps, this man would allow himself to be taken to firefight like this. a tough one to swallow and you have is to ask yourself why were these men sent in at such high risk when a drone above that area at that time -- that could have been used instead. more details, i think, still to emerge here michael. >> isis has proven to be very sophisticated with regard to the use of social media. has there yet been confirmation from them for either of these groups as to this successful rate? >> well, isis does have media and there is known what as isis

tweets following on social media. some isis tweeters or followers are saying look if that's the target that the u.s. had, abu sayyaf than their operation failed. key to it play down its significance. the colleagues are suggesting yes, he may have been a key target that the u.s. had their eyes fron a long time. very easy for isis to say, we're not so concerned about that. you just have to look at the scale of risk involved here. the volume potentially, sorry, the latitude of things to have gone wrong and entering into well fortified oil field like this. so far into isis territory. it's very messy task indeed, to try to extract people from there if something were to gone wrong. the agonizing the white house went through whether to send soldiers in to kill bin laden or

use a bomb. they sent the personnel in to identify it was him. you have it ask yourself maybe someone of a higher value, more recognizable to the u.s. public perhaps, was there rather than abu sayyaf. still waiting for his real name to emerge and more details as the pentagon and white house saying the kind of control he had over isis financing. oil so important to them. they run a massive black market trade. used to generate millions and air strikes took out part of that infrastructure and damaged it and it may be taking out this man, yet further reduces it. but, then you also have to look at the statements they make about um sayyaf. isis are not known to bring their wife into the business model. have a role in the organization but it's not common place for you to hear somebody's wife being as deputy. that's something, certainly, needs more scrutiny and, of course one fortunate shot here it appears a young yazidi woman,

one if not hundreds or thousands physical slave by isis has been rescued in this operation. >> nick paton walsh please stay with us. when we come back in a moment i want tapursue nick's idea the idea that a drone wasn't used here but special forces were sent in. when we come back we'll have the very latest developments in this situation. with every hole-in-one at a pga tour event you could be mortgage free for an entire year. how great would that be? just ask the growing list of winners who have already had their mortgages paid for one whole year by quicken loans. win a year's worth of mortgage payments from quicken loans. the official mortgage sponsor of the pga tour. enter the quicken loans hole-in-one sweepstakes today at pgatour.com/quickenloans strong can heal from miles away. unite us for a common good.

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welcome back. the president has said he does not want to put boots on the ground in syria, but we did in this raid. what is the white house saying? cnn salrxs,ulin is at the white house. >> put u.s. assets on the ground in syria and president obama did make the decision made the call himself to do so. as the national security council says that he did so with unanimous recommendation of his national kurt team and they say as soon as there were sufficient intelligence developed that would lead them to have confidence that this mission would be successful. but i should say the national security council, they called it

a complex mission and what we know from cnn's barbara starr reporting, it certainly does sound like it was, including this raid deep into isis territory, including at times, according to barbara starr, some hand-to-hand combat by u.s. forces. now, in this statement from nse it notes that abu sayyaf was a senior isis leader noting that he oversaw oil and gas operations. i know you were discussing this earlier. to highlight the wife um sayyaf who is captured. they say and in the statement they note they suspect that she played an important role in isis terrorist activities. she is being detained in iraq right now. of course she will be interrogated. the big question is will she provide and does she know intelligence that can help the u.s. in the fight against isis. president obama spoke earlier this week in a newspaper interview about the fight against isis in syria.

he said we will remain relentless in our campaign to degrade isis safe haven within syria as part of our broader campaign to destroy isol. this is the same sort of operation that took down osama bin laden and we know from that operation president obama then watched in realtime from the situation room watched every step as it happened in realtime. the big question was, was president obama in the situation as this mission happened overnight and waiting for confirmation from the white house on that point. >> will the president, himself, make remarks on this subject today if. >> at this time we don't expect that. that could always change. we likely will not see president obama come out. of course this could be a good time for him to do that. this was a relatively success fall mission. of course they did not capture abu sayyaf himself back alive, which would have of course provided a significant amount of

intelligence but they again, they captured his wife and they consider her potentially an important source of intelligence. michael? >> dao we know is the white house capsaying this is a capture mission or to kill? >> that is an important question. any time in these sorts of missions things go awry and there need to be decisions that are made on the ground by the u.s. special operations. again, going back to the sig significance of the osama bin laden raid that killed him. president obama watched every step as it happened. so it would be it will be interesting to find out if that was a directive dead or alive or obviously, i think that the white house said they believe that they would want to capture these isis leaders and these sort of terrorists because they do have valuable information. also of note is what was recovered from the mission site. were there laptops and

information. all of those details will hopefully come out from the white house, not only do they need leaders dead or alive, but they need their resources on the ground that can help really create the full picture of what isis is up to. >> cnn sunlen ssefrty at the white house. general marks, i'll go back to you, would you suspect this was a catch and capture or kill mission? >> this was a capture. you make the determination with all the risk parameters that are involved to either kill or to capture. so, this is not something that was gone awry. these are contingencyies and options that are planned out and rehearsed in great detail. the commander on the ground has the authority to make that decision. >> general hertling the use of a drone was not usetilized in this

particular case. send in special forces or solve this problem with a drone strike. >> i'd likely suggest, michael, you had drones over the target gathering intelligence before the strike itself. but using a missile from an unmanned system to destroy a target is used in some cases, but in this case, it's boy, you do that and all the intelligence that is on the scene. we are talking about an operation in a major headquarters. i mean this is their financial headquarters if you will. and, so you don't want to destroy all that great information that might lead to other sources by just bombing the place. that was one of the decisions not to do not to bomb the home where bin laden was staying in pakistan. >> yeah we should poin outt out for cnn viewers, this is deep within isis-controlled territory. while it might have put less american soldiers at risk to use a drone, as you point out, we would have lost the ability to

capture all of that intelligence which will hope will take us. >> you save a whole lot of lives by doing that and prosecute the war in a much better case by gaining some of that intelligence. spider is the expert on that. i have to tell you, you fight as an operator which i was, you fight for intelligence to turn it over to guys like spider so they can give you more intelligence to get more targets. it is a never-ending cycle of operations and intel. >> general, mas, what is happening do you think right now with regard to that information that has been seized? what is the drill, what is the process that we would be utilizing? >> two things are happening right now. umm sayyaf is being interrogated and being interrogated in a facility in iraq probably that's protected and totally isolated and under u.s. control. iraqis own the outer perimeter under the internal puremter and all the information that was captured as a result of that raid is now being ixploit edexploited,

at least immediately exploited and initialtriage. we reserve the right to go back and strike again that we get intelligence that indicates it would be worth the effort to do that again. but there will be much deeper exploitation of that intelligence going forward. >> general hertling what will be the success of this raid by forces. how every action sets off a domino effect in the middle east. what will be some of the reprecussions from this? >> a perfect question michael. what i would suggest to you, a lot of media outlets claiming that isis is ten feet tall. this is an action where, really, they're not so tall are they? in fact you compare an action like this where you strike at an operational headquarters and get a cfo and get a lot of intel with perhaps a suicide bomb truck driving into a headquarters in ramadi it is not comparable at all.

there is an indicator that this this element of isol and i will proclaim this proudly are on their way down. they are imploding. they can't control the kind of things they got. they are losing their leaders. they are losing intelligence and the fight is being taken to them. now, the key element that remains to be seen is can we build an iraqi security force that will take the fight to them on the ground very quickly and come together under an exclusive government and what will happen in syria. those are the two remaining things left to determine and then you'll see all the other organizations that are joining isis because they seem to be the big kid in town now. start to fall off. this is the beginning of the end, in my view. >> gentlemen, please stay with me. we'll have much more on this successful raid in syria, but plus the latest developments in the deadly amtrak crash. a former ceo of amtrak will join me.

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welcome back. breaking news coverage of the raid in syria, but first, to another big story we're following. new developments in the deadly amtrak derailment. ntsb investigators say the train may have been hit by an object before it flew off the tracks. during an interview with investigators, one of the assistant conductors said she heard engineer brandon bostian talking to the engineer of a local commuter train said his windshield was shot at or hit by a rock. she told investigators she thought she heard bostian reply that he thought his amtrak train was hit. we are covering every angle of this story and a great lineup of guests who can help us better understand all of these developments. doug redell a former amtrak

engineer and david hughes is a former chief engineer president and ceo of amtrak. he's consulted on rail systems in more than 35 countries and i'd like to begin with you, mr. hughes what is your reaction to hearing that one of the conductors said that the engineer made a comment that this train had also been struck? >> well that's certainly a possibility, michael. things like that happen on a regular basis, unfortunately. trains and things drop from overpasses. those things happen. >> do you see a possible causal connection between this train being struck with an object or being struck and then derailing? >> only that the engineer was distracted from his duties. >> what occurred it me as i follow the chronology mr. hughes if this individual heard a communication between bostian and someone on another train saying that his train had been struck that would interrupt a

causal connection where he was distracted momentarily because of that object. i hope i'm explaining this well. if there were a connection between the two, then something would have hit the windshield and it would have caused him to be distracted instantaneously and there would not be such a phone call. >> i can't speculate about it michael. but, certainly, it's disturbing to hear that that could have happened and it's certainly something that if you were an engineer your attention. >> like the rest of us you're trying to figure out what went on in the engine. you have more expertise than the rest of us. what are the range of possibilities? >> well we know a few things that are facts. one of them is that a minute or so prior to the accident, the speed, the train was operating at a normal speed. a minute before it derailed it began to accelerate which means that the throttle had to be, had to be moved. something during that one minute happened and we don't know what

it is. we don't know why the throttle was advanced and we don't know why the engineer didn't respond to keep the train under control. >> is it like is the throttle like a gas pedal in a car that i drive where you need to keep pressure on it? >> no when you move the throttle to a particular place, it will stay there until you move it again. >> mr. hughes i want to put on the screen for our cnn viewers a photograph of the inside of the engine and if you could explain what we are looking at in this photograph it would be helpful. >> on the right you could see a pedestal with a large red handle on it. that's the air brake for the train. the engineer would advance that to set the brakes and it would be released in a back position. on the left side of the console you can see a black, a black leaver standing up. in order to move the train forward from that a stop. that lever in a forward position. if he want tad move forward he

would push it down to move the train. just to heftthe left of the throttle is an emergency stop button. if the engineer hits that, it will shut down power on the train. >> also at the floor, i'm seeing something. it's at the bottom of the screen. what am i looking at? >> there are two, there are two mushroom buttons there, michael. that would be the dead man control. so the engineer would have to have his foot on one of those buttons and you see there's a little vertical metal piece between them to prevent putting a heavy object on them and disabling it so that the engineer has to use his foot and can't use the tool box or a bag. >> if each of these items requires attention, the alerter, the dead man's switch the throttle might it suggest a deliberate act? >> well we don't have any information that's on the record to rule that out.

so i just don't know what you say about it. it could be. but i don't see any information one way or the other. >> anecdotes about the engineer and social media posts for which he's presumed to be responsible suggest that he was diligent in the way that he approached his job and that via social media, he expressed concerns about the safety of the amtrak system. >> i think he was expressing concerns. i guess he could express concerns about the amtrak system and railroads in general. there are a lot of arm chair quarterback on the internet who only have part of the picture. he made a number of allegations, for example, one of them was that the industry has had 100 years to develop a system, but didn't. but the fact is in 2008 the congress was only able to enact the legislation they did because of research done by private railroads in the ten years prior to 2008. except for that research there

would be no technology to implement today. >> i want it bring in doug redell and xavier bishop. xavier you know brandon bostian and the rest of us don't know the man. what is it you know? >> i was a flagman for the better half of a year. it was a sipuation wheretuation where he approached the job, he was always on time and always had his paperwork and everything wans on point. he didn't come off cocky, anything he did not know he knew the proper people to call in order to get the answers he needed to do his job. >> he doesn't strike you as the sort of individual who's up in the engine and listening to talking on his phone or engaged in some sort of voluntary distraction? >> abhe takes his job very seriously and just an unfortunate incident. >> do you think a rush to judgment in some elements of our society paying attention to this?

>> absolutely. you are to look at it like this. history shows it. when you don't understand something, you're fueled by fear and give you all types of paranoia you have to look at it like this. anybody looking at the situation are quick to judge, quick to blame. i was a conductor and i worked with brandon personally. i was on the inside out. i already know more than the average person would know. you are going to sit there and you know you only know what they're going to tell you on the news or whatever the case may be. i know the ins and outs and the train run and all that good stuff. i worked with brandon and i am telling you, he is on point. he is not that individual who going to make mistakes like that and he is not going to come off like a know it all and he's not proud like that. he does what he does and he's very thorough and he's a proud man. >> in your mind he is not the kind of guy who would have shown up for work seeking to do harm to anybody on that train? >> i mean, no one does. if you really think about it this man has people's lives in his hands every single day. as a crew he's an engineer

we're conductors. our primary objective is to get passengers from point a to point b on a day-to-day basis. you don't come into work thinking i'm going to derail and cause all these problems. when you're in a car, you have a call with two or three other people and these people have their lives in your hands. that is not your intention to take the car and flip it over. >> you would get on a train with him tomorrow. >> i get on a train on a day-to-day basis. >> doug redell what significance do you find with the revelations of the nstb yesterday that an object may have hit this train? >> it's the piece of the puzzle that i've been missing. i run trains at this distance he did. i run diesels more in fact i'm not electric qualified. i do know the territory. it disturbed me when i heard at first that he accelerated the train going into a curve. that's not right. then the information came out that he left when he passed north philadelphia and i think

that's a 65-mile-per-hour speed restriction going up to 80 miles an hour. now, engineers don't speed. they do push the envelope. you like to get as much of that 80 mile an hour as you can. you pride yourself on going as far into the speed restriction, the normal speed as possible. and then braking at the proper point. it's almost like getting a three-point three-point, but when you hit that curve and you need to be at 55 and the needle says you're running 55. when he came out, yes, he accelerated and as mr. hughes says the throttle went out. you tried to get up take advantage of that 80 miles an hour and reach that point where you are going to shut off on the throttle and put on the brake and something happened. and yesterday when they said that the windshield might have been compromised, somebody might have thrown something. i hit everything from bald eagles to deer and i had bricks thrown at my train.

it is like an explosion. you're sitting there in the cab of a locomotive and all of a sudden you're completely jarred. i think what we have here is a perfect storm. if this is what i think happened. we had a perfect storm. you had an engineer accelerating this train and turning it down to 50 miles per hour and suddenly a brick came or whatever happened. and he lost concentration for a couple of seconds. well on a corridor where you're running trains 125 to 150 miles per hour as some of the accela trains do, you're talking a matter of second being the difference between getting your train down and not being able to get it down at all. when you come to that situation that's happened here you either do one of three things. you do the right thing, the wrong thing or nothing. if you do nothing, it disturbs me. the possibility that he was distracted and the possibility

that he lost his concentration. even if only for a matter of seconds might have been the difference between getting to that point and putting his brake on and dropping the throttle and realizing after a few seconds that he was by the point of i guess the point of no return you might want to call it. he looks up and you realize that as he's getting ready to go in the 50-mile-per-hour curve. at that point, he realizes it's to put the train in an emergency. >> david hughes i would say i would most want it see the cell phone record of a timing of a call he may have had with a septa engineer and, of course i would want to interview the engineer and know what was said in that conversation. david hughes take the final word on this. >> whatever happened michael, was recorded. all his radio communications are recorded and maintained for just this reason. >> doug redell xavier bishop david hughes thank you for

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you may be able to get up to 12 months at no cost. welcome back. braelking news overnight, u.s. special operations forces have killed a senior isis command anywhere syria. killing abu sayaff. i want to bring in retired general mark rertling and james spider marks. u.s. forces captured some communications equipment. that's significant. and we learned earlier this hour from cnn's pentagon correspondent, barbara starr that there's reason to believe that abu sayaff may have been in contact with abu bakr al-baghdadi. general marks, of what significance the killing of this individual? >> well the killing is important, what i think is really significant is the intelligence we'll be able to

derive as a result of this raid. as the cfo of isis i think it's fair to call him that in charge of all the oil and gas revenue, we're going to be able to dig into all the records, all the documents and figure out what those sources of revenue are. and everyone who is on that list now, needs to have their head on the swivel. because the united states and our partners have this information it now becomes targetable and we'll follow up very quickly. we need to. >> general hertling, the intelligence that we had must have been very secure to enable the president to move forward with the unanimous recommendation of the security team. >> absolutely. michael. this is one of those things where you generated a lot of intel, you placed it in a target package. operations joint special operations command has been watching this target as well as with what they call a fusion cell which consists of all of the intelligence resources, c.i.a. dia, nsa, all the ones

that will contribute to a strike like this. then the time was right. and they took a great deal of rick but they mitigated those risks, but the rewards, as my friend spider just said are going to be significant. from this strike. >> senior international correspondent nick paton walsh is joining us from beirut now what's been the reaction from overseas? >> limited. and frankly those isis followers on twitter who we've been seeing not really making much out of the loss of abu sayaff saying that's their target the quote operation failed. let me tell you about the place where this occurred an oil field. according to activists who have seen how that place works, it's a huge complex, very well fortified. about a three to five-kilometer perimeter around which you can't go near. so incredibly secure. and we heard from witnesses, a series of airstrikes began it seems, this operation just after midnight. and then it went what seems to

have been u.s. delta forces obviously extraordinarily risky and complex operation. go back i think to the question abu sayaff's relevance in isis. not a man who we have heard a lot about before. a ral jaberi is a name we've been hearing, so much more detail i think for the white house to put out on the table to explain why they're willing to take this substantial risk. it seems to be an operation, the aim of which was to capture abu sayaff sayaff. we look back at the history of isis leaders, suicide bombers and the cult of self-extinguish self-extinguishment is so much of the tradition of isis. it must have been what he's been banking on and bob has been mentioning the potential links that abu sayaff had with abu

bakr al-baghdadi and was a spokesperson for isis it may be that there's much bigger fish that the white house had their crosshairs on. >> nick paton walsh. thank you for your report general marks and general hertling, thank you very much. strong can heal from miles away. unite us for a common good. and turn a simple video into endless laughter. strong can take you...

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so glad to have you with us i'm christi paul. >> and i'm victor blackwell. we want to welcome our viewers in the u.s. and joining us from around the world. first up the breaking news u.s. special operations forces have killed a key isis figure in syria. cnn was the first to report that abu sayaff is dead. the plan was to capture him, but he fought back and in hand-to-hand combat and was killed in the raid that's what we're learning from the defense department. >> his wife umm sayyaf was captured and is in military detention in iraq she's believed to have been involved in human trafficking and hostage taking and at least 19 isis fighters were killed in in the coalition bom