day for other ireland. and the country voted to legalize same sex marriage. this is the first time a country has done so by popular vote. >> that's it. we'll see you at 10:00 newsroom. we'll bring you the live verdict from the brelo trial. don't go anywhere. i'm michael smerconish. welcome to the program. isis terrorists made stunning movements this week. now the group reportedly controls more than half of syria. isis is not in the position to continue the murderous rampage and also destroy artifacts as it did in the past. now the question at home is whether the u.s. strategy is failing. some are calling for u.s. boots on the ground in the region. joining me is richard clark,

former white house counter terrorism advisor that spent ten consecutive years in the white house advising three consecutive presidents. he authored his fourth book called "pinnacle event." is this what a caliphate looks like? >> yeah they've done it. they created an islamic state. it's a huge chunk of land. they have people under their control, government issuing license plate. this is a caliphate. they're established. there's no near term likelihood of them being evicted from big cities like mosul still a city of over 1 million people. >> why should we care? >> i'm not sure. that's the key issue. we went into iraq and lost thousands of americans, killed and tens of thousands wounded and still suffering. we spent $1 trillion. the american people voted for a presidential candidate who said he would get out, and he did.

now people are saying well maybe that was a mistake and maybe we should go back in. they have to be very careful. if we go back in, we need to understand why and the probability of success and exactly what we're going to do and what the limits are. what does go back in mean to clark? more military advisors? >> we have 3,000 troops on the ground. we have troops on the ground. they have advisors. they're special forces for the most part. they could easily become people at the front advising unit miss combat and calling in air strikes. the problem today is we don't have anybody at the prontfront to call in air strikes. we could do a lot more damage. we could also arm the people out there that want to fight. people fighting in ramadi ran out of ammunition. they didn't have weapons. the kurds in the north who want

to fight isis don't have weapons. these are policy issues. the first policy issue does it matter? it matters then ask for five six, seven point plan to increase what we do within certain parameters. one of those for me is no u.s. military major combat units. don't put brigade back or division back. arm the people out. >> it's also complicated. you can't buy into the my enemy is my friend. not in this case. it seems we're on the same side as iran in iraq. it seems the more we do against isis in syria the more we're assisting bashar al-assad. >> if we think that isis as we call it here in the united states is a threat to the united

states to the homeland then they're the enemy. if working with iran in this one instance is what we have to do then let's do it. hell world war ii we were back in the communist, soviet union because they were backing. if they're willing to fight isis let's give them air cover. >> here's another subject on which you're uniquely qualified to speak. you were on president obama's five member panel relative to nsa. as you and i are here at the end of the week, you know what's being going on in washington battle between the house and smet senate relative to meta data. have any attacks been prevented because of that information? >> no. i looked at each one of them. in no case would the result have been different if the program didn't exist.

no the program is not useful. >> does that mean we should get rid of it? >> yeah in the form it's constructed with the government holding records about every time you make a phone call and the government looking at it without a search warrant. all that has to go away. the law they're operating under doesn't say anything. >> are civil liberties in jeopardy where the content is not known to he or she looking at the matrix? >> not yet and not at this time. we know in the past that fbi and other organizations and the united states government abused civil liberties and went after people unjustify bli. it could happen again. it could happen in your lifetime. who's to say it won't happen again. we don't want government agencies overreaching like that. >> why do we write novels? entertaining book. it's why you are fourth novel. did something come over you where richard clark said i can

win more hearts and minds on issues by turning to fiction? >> i've written three non fiction. they were successful i think. fiction reaches a different audience. if i'm in the airport, i want a spy fiction book thriller for that flight to california. i think a lot of people do. if i'm laying on the beach, i'm not reading a policy book. >> right. >> it's a different audience. the challenge i gave to myself was can i write a thriller page turner that's fun and educates people about what the world is really like. i read these thrillers that i pick up in the air. i get through and say this is not realistic. >> do your books and novels need to get screened by the intelligence community? >> they do and all have been. i try to make them as realistic as possible without revealing information obviously that shouldn't be revealed.

>> appreciate your expertise. >> thank you. newly released secret documents give us the closest look yet inside the al qaeda leader's mind. one of my next guests toured ben eded bin laden's before it was torn down and another a book on his bookshelf.

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revealed. intelligence officials release documents taken from the hideout found in the raid in 2011. there's a lot to be learned from what was on his bookshelf. in 1997 peter bergen produced the first interview with bin laden that aired here on cnn. he toured the compound after peter was killed. thank you for being here. when you toured what was left behind sm. >> well it was really like a crime scene michael. they had not let a lot of people on the site. i toured it two weeks before the whole compound was demolished. what i saw and obviously i didn't know this was controversial many years later, was evidence of a real fire fight that took place at one of the smaller buildings on the compound. there was other smaller exchanges of fire that happened

else where. there was broken glass in almost every room. when the seals come into your compound it's not a visit from the red cross. this was a violent event. >> when you got to the room where bin laden was killed, was there blood all over the place? >> i didn't see blood all over the place. i did see a large black spatter on the ceiling of bin laden's rather low bedroom ceiling. the people that took me around said that's where when bin laden was shot -- she's a tall guy 6'4" blood splattered on the creeling and congealed to this substance on the ceiling. >> you said there was a natural form of viagra left behind in his medicine cabinet. were there reading materials

also left behind? >> no. i saw medicines left behind. any of the seals picked up computer computers, thumb drives. after that the pakistani intelligence service went in and picked up number of documents. there was nothing like that left when i toured. >> peter, this week we learned that approximately five months before bin laden was killed he was apparently writing, making correspondence saying he thought he exhausted the patience from a security standpoint of hosts in pakistan and thinking of leaving. do you think five months prior to the take down we had a line on him that had he left we never would have been able to kill him? >> it's one of those counter factuals. michael as you know throughout the ten months that -- from

august 2010 to may 2011 there was never certainty bin laden was there. over time some of the doubters may have changed their mind. it was always a circumstantial case. if he had left five months before -- there was no 100% certainty he was there. always a circumstantial case. people that knew him best were convinced he was there. people that lived through the weapons of mass destruction fiasco in iraq were skeptical and had reasons to doubt this circumstantial case. >> thank you peter. we appreciate you being here. one of the things revealed in the classified documents is his choice of reading material. he had a massive collection of english language books. my next guest is an author of one of the books in the stash. he's also the former chief of

cia bin laden unit "the alex station." he led the hunt from 1996 to 1999. thank you for being here. you a man that hunted bin laden and yet he was recommending your materials, your books even before he was killed. why? >> because i had listened to what he had said and in my books core correlated what al qaeda did and correlation between words and deeds was extraordinarily high. i think in some ways he may have been relieved that someone in the west was listening to what he said and trying to understand it. and as it turns out, the book based on his words could be read today by people who are treated by their leaders to lies about motivation of our enemy. the one thing that's very

unusual here in documents that they keep releasing now -- this is the second or third trench -- is that it undercuts both stra administrations, bush and obama. the fact it was growing rather than shrinking. it is really an extraordinary thing. the lie is durable. >> michael, let's go there. initially in aftermath of september 11 we were told it was because of lap dances gap jeans and starbucks coffee. they hated us for our freedom. what does this report with what you were saying with bin laden all along? >> there's nothing about a motivation to attack america because we were depraved or debotched because of women in the work place or pornography or whatever.

liberty, elections. they frankly michael didn't give a [ bleep ] about what we did in north america. the motivation for bin laden and people followed him and people attacking us now is u.s. government's relentless intervention in muslim world, support for israel and arab tyrants. that's the bottom line. >> do you think the reason that he had your book on his shelf and the reason that he had said in a statement before he was killed -- by the way, let's make something clear. if michael sawyer had the chance you would have killed him with your bare hands when he was alive, right? >> we tried. i had officers who had given chances to kill him. mr. clinton was reluctant. >> i don't want cnn viewers to be -- >> we treated him with gloves. we had been his main ally throughout this war. >> what i'm take from you is

that you believe bin laden -- it was your job to study him -- believed him to be transparent. he did what he said he was going to do. that's all you needed to understand about the guy. somewhere along the political leadership line -- >> we demonized him. it's easier to kill if you demonize him. i bet there's no one in the senior levels of bush government or obama government that has read his words. if they did, they can't read very well. >> i know you read his words. let me ask you. now looking at what's going on in iraq and syria today, is this what he wanted? did he want to establish a caliphate? or did he want the united states off what he regarded as arabian peninsula? >> he wanted caliphate. he did not believe the time was right.

what came out of documents, he had a structured plan. first drive americans out of the middle east. then destroy israel and the arabs. then settle scores with the shia. his biggest worry was that the shia confrontation would come tooen too soon. one thing doing that was set up caliphate too soon. we're seeing his worst nightmare shias versus sunnis. we should let them kill each other. >> was there anything that surprised you about his reading lists? would you have come up with a list like this. >> i would have come up with books about the united states. i don't know if i would come up with this list. he focused on us. he knew us far better than we knew him.

we didn't take him seriously. >> at the time we heard he had a porno stash. do we know about that? >> there's a tremendous amount of pornography amongst the islamic groups. some use pit for, you know stimulation. they're not dumb people. they know how to hide information in movie, pictures on maps in order to transfer it without being discovered. pornography is a useful way. we took many many piles of pornography from people that we captured. captured.>> some was pornography, some had information hidden inside of it. offers areas had to sign off that they were aware of material they're going to look at and wouldn't be thrown by it. >> thank you.

the state department releases the first batch of hillary clinton's e-mails. what they tell us about the deadly attack in benghazi. it can quickly become the only thing you think about. that's where at&t can help. with innovative solutions that connect machines and people... to keep your internet of things in-sync, in real-time. leaving you free to focus on what matters most.

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sustainability and really to keep their overhead low. solar and energy efficiency are all core values of pg&e. they've given us the tools that we need to become more efficient and bottom line save more money. together, we're building a better california. welcome back. turning now to politics where hillary clinton is facing new questions about the 55,000 pages of e-mails she gave to the state department from her home server. the state department released the first batch of e-mails yesterday, some 850 pages.

so far, no smoking gun, but a lot of interesting nuggets including what she knew about the deadly benghazi attack in 2012 and when. here to break it down is "new york times" presidential correspondent and cnn political analyst maggie. what did we learn from the document drop from the state department? >> not a lot new. a little bit about the time line of events after the benghazi attacks. there were e-mails including her talking about the movie trailer that led to some of the protests. there was one e-mail forward about how benghazi was obama's 3:00 a.m. wake-up call. this was reference to 3:00 a.m. emphasis ad mrs. clinton aired. in terms of new information, anything that changed the dynamic about our understanding of what happened after benghazi or about how she ran the state department there's not a lot.

what this will do is provide for when she testifies before the house committee. >> what do you think concerns the clinton campaign more the release of benghazi e-mails and other e-mails that will be forth coming in this drip drip toward 2016 or revelations about the foundation revelations about foreign governments or individuals that hired bill to speak with contributions made today foundation? between the two, which is more troublesome? >> the latter. neither is sinking in but e-mails have been focused on and gone over. they have not sunk in on polling. if anything, voters are looking at two different strings of information. she deleted e-mails. these are going to be released before the campaign next year. on one hand she deleted the server and yet here's the

information and e-mails. i think voters will have the trouble sympathizeing these things. they're still at odds. the foundation piece is more complicated. it goes to the heart of overlap between their personal lives, between how their lives are subsidized between their allies politically and in terms of their foundation which is a charity. there's a nexus between these issues. i think the biggest concern for a lot of people around her, inside the campaign and allies outside, is not so much a bomb shell or smoking gun but she did very little vetting in advance of this campaign? they don't know what's to cop. >> i think to your point, if you and i were strategist trying to convert either of these narratives into a 30 second narrative or 60 second narrative, we'd have a hell of a time doing it because of that complexity. if there's something to either

of them -- and i'm not saying there is -- it would not resinate. >> republicans are trying to build a character case against her. that's what the e-mails and foundation are about. they're not finding a smoking gun per se. a strategist said they're finding a lot of led they can put together and form into a narrative. character questions have dogged the clintons since their white house days. mrs. clinton campaigned for r senate in 2000 the question was all about character. that's what the carpet bagger issue was about. you saw this come up again in 2007 in the form of iraq war vote among other things. she's been in the public eye for so long it's not clear it will take hold. the bigger question is how there takes hold with younger voters. one interesting story from this past week is the party along with debate sponsors including this network are struggling to come to terms with how to fit candidates on the

same stage. who benefits? who loses? >> people polling well do well. people not polling as well lose. for one debate it's segmented into different categories. any time you have you know splits and debates, it's not going to benefit anybody, especially lower polling can dats candidates that use these for lower polling you're going to have maybe three minutes of air time for each one. no one is going to break out. you saw newt gringrich. debates can really matter. when parched and broken down this way, not sure how it's going to go.

>> santorum martin o'malley set to get in this week. >> going to be interesting. the biggest question is going to be martin o'malley who so far tried to frame himself as something antihillary clinton without actually talking about her much. he's trying to draw a sharp contrast on issues. there's no question there's some energy on the left for an opponent. it's not clear if it's more than wanting to see her sharpened in the primary. a lot of polling shows her in good shape. this is not looking like a repeat of 2008. we'll see. >> one of the take aways has to be you win even when you lose so longs ayou put on a respectable race. otherwise you wouldn't have second tier candidates willing to jump in. >> on the republican side 18 and then some. in 2012 republicans used the debaits. there was no primary in 2012.

obama was incumbent. you saw book tours and campaigns. some seemed they were auditions for television shows. you have that dynamic at play here. it's less clear what martin o'malley is hoping to get out of this if he loses. >> maggie thank you as always. >> thank you. the minimum wage vote taking a turn this time in the way of workers. will this set the tone for the rest of the country? i'll speak to the only la city councilman that voted no on the measure.

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welcome back. often things that begin in california eventually migrate across the rest of the nation. i'm not just talking hula hoop. consider no-fault divorce began in california decriminalization of pot took off there. jerry brown signed into law first prohibition of plastic bags. when los angeles city council voted 14 to one to increase

minimum wage by 2020 making la the largest city many the nation to adopt a major minimum wage hike the rest of us better pay attention. the lone councilman that voted against the bill did not speak tuesday morning. i want to get his opinion. also here is fellow council member price who cowrote the minimum wage proposal. councilman price, do you worry los angeles created a wage island are from which be businesses will now flee? >> no not at all. income disparities and poverty is a big issue in california. cost of living is up. housing prices are up. yet the minimum wages are down and have remained stagnant. we think this is the right thing to do increasing the wage to 15 dollars an hour. be mindful, talking only $33,000

a year. still very difficult for a family of more than two or three to exist. the people i represent are working three and four jobs to make ends meet. >> councilman, why did you vote against it? >> well you moe, i was raised by a single mom that worked three jobs. i understand full well how difficult it is to make ends meet. you ask the question and in fact your opening segment said california experimented with opening the marijuana laws. los angeles experimented with that as well. we had 1,000 and had to figure out a reasonable number to undo that. we're never going to pull back from this. we have 30 cities that surround los angeles city. a lot of studies were done on the county. my concern we're putting this on backs of local businesses. small mom and pop type shops that barely make ends meet on

their own. we've got to balance equation with businesses not move the pie around. we could put our own zminskin in the game. create our own enterprise zones, fund technical and job training programs to give more skilled workers opportunity to advance. we've got to look at ripple effect as well. 100% increase to cost of businesses. no cost to the city but cost to businesses. the ripple effect of people making just above that they're going to have to give them raises as well. that's 150% increase. we've got to help businesses stay open retain businesses to provide the jobs here in los angeles. >> councilman price, some of those who are supportive of raising the the mandatory minimum wage say this doesn't go far enough because we're talking next five years we'll see growth to $15.

who knows what inflation will be five years in the future? >> it won't be $15. it will be even less. businesses have benefitted from aggressive pro business atmosphere and attitude our council has had, providing insensitives for hotels. downtown is exploding like never before with new shops, businesses and stores. we can't neglect the bottom of the pile. raising the wage is right thing to do. it's the right thing to do in california. we're discussing it in los angeles. la county is looking at it. the notion this is going to be isolated that we'll be an island, is not accurate at all. indeed this is a national trend. california is at the forefront. i'm proud to be a part of that. >> that's why i wanted to talk to the two you. i said at the off set, off that begins in california people snicker initially then it takes part across the country.

>> libertarians and conservatives say we ought to let the market. kick -- market dictate. i read that the work force is below in los angeles. >> there's a happy medium. we've got to balance that. we've got to partner with businesses not let the market or us dictate. it can't be the policy makers saying we're going to create unfunded on businesses. we've lost major industries in los angeles from aerospace, financial, bio technology. light and industrial manufacturing have said they're going to flee and go to surrounding communities because of this cost. we should give them tax break, an opportunity, seat at the take to insure we protect entry level

jobs and opportunity to train those workers to move up the ladder and make more money and be successful for all of us here. >> councilman price, you can have the final word. i like what's about to take place in california for this reason. it's a lab experiment. it's going to take us out of the classroom and on a large scale, we're going to see a what happens when there's increase on minimum wage scale. >> it is an experiment. it's one we've given a great deal of thought top. we've had number of hearings three reports. we've heard from hundreds and hundreds of citizens including business people and others who expressed concerns. i think we've adopted approach responsive to. that. >> mitchell englander, mitch mr. price, we appreciate you being here. sexism on capitol hill does it exist in find out why some female staffers say they can't

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welcome back. capitol hill may look like a virtual boy's club with the majority of congress being male. in a new survey it may give insight as to why. the national journey conducted an anonymous survey. the result several female aids reported they were never allowed to be one on one with a congressman or summer for fear that others would get the wrong impression. the issue isn't widespread. it certainly exist and leads me

to wonder if work place is here. are they worried about the appearance or trying to protect themselves against claim of sexual harassment by having a witness in the room? >> that's what's interesting about this. we saw both. we conducted survey and had three women report to us out of 500 they experienced this in their offices. i followed up with as many offices as i could reach out to and spoke to women and men that experienced this in congressional offices. the reasons are two part as you suggested. one is they're concerned what other people think particularly out side of washington d.c. where this stuff is normal. the second is yeah they're concerned about what might happen behind closed doors and might be perceived later. >> the reason it's of significance to state the obvious is that it's more difficult therefore for a female to advance because if she can't

get the ear of the member of congress house of senate and enstill a trustful relationship she's going to be passed over for perhaps the administrative assistant position. >> oh yeah. that was the biggest question i had going into this how could you rise to level of chief of staff if you're not allow add loan with your boss? that doesn't seem possible. a lot of women i talked to said they did leave the offices because they knew there was no way they were going to advance. they saw junior staffers advance over them because they were male. they could attend meetings that the woman couldn't. >> does it take place as well when the elected official is female and staffer is a male? >> that's what's really interesting. i talk to susan collins congressional staffer in the 70s and 80s. she didn't experience this herself. she found it laughable this was happening. she has numerous male and female staffers. she spends one on one time with them has them drive her around

the district. she says if heal staffers couldn't drive her around it would be difficult for her to do her job. it never occurred to her that anyone would i anything other than these are two people that work together. >> we did a call segment and i was overwhelmed with caller across the country that said it's not just congress. military has shades of this as well private sector universities called talking about where a professor doesn't want to be alone with a co ed afterhours. >> universities are definitely examples. i've heard a lot since publishing this story. doctors, obgyn if male will have a female nurse in the room with a female patient. i spoke to deborah, employment lawyer in d.c. and she had never heard of a case like this.

particularly the response i've gotten is not entirely widespread but is happening. at the same time it's something people don't talk about. i'm happy to have had the conversation and talked to people that have experienced this. >> we can add to the list military university cossacks. there's something called the billy graham rule on this very issue. he wouldn't travel alone only in the company of a female. >> i've heard about that as well. that was definitely brought to my attention after this story came out. >> it got a huge reaction is what you're telling us? >> it absolutely did. this is has been probably the biggest story i've ever written. keep sending emails i'd like to hear more. >> sarah mims thank you so much. coming up apple's ceo tim cook did it so did mitch obama. they all gave memorable and inspiring commencement graduation addresses, i wasn't asked to give one. but i'll deliver mine here, next.

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at sleep train. ♪ sleep train ♪ ♪ your ticket to a better night's sleep ♪ with xfinity from comcast you can manage your account anytime, anywhere on any device. just sign into my account to pay bills manage service appointments and find answers to your questions. you can even check your connection status on your phone. now it's easier than ever to manage your account. get started at xfinity.com/myaccount welcome back it's graduation season and many names are attempting to leave an imprint on the minds of graduates.

apple's ceo tim cook spoke at george washington university about the idealism of steve jobs and his drive to change the world. >> graduate your values matter they are your north star and work takes on new meaning when you feel you're pointed in the right direction. otherwise, it's just a job. and life is too short for that. >> former president george w. bush offered some words of encouragement at southern methodist university and he poked some fun at himself. >> those of how are graduating this afternoon with high honors awrards and distinctions, i say well done. and as i like to tell the c students you, too, can be president. >> not to be outdone, actor matthew mcconaughey after being paid $135,000 for his charity, and afforded the use of a private jet, he told graduates at the university of houston -- never apologize for playing the bongos naked. walk about in peru, and use the

truth as a pillow. well nobody asked me to deliver a commencement address. but here goes. register change sign mix, and run. register according to the united states election project, the turn-out among eligible voters in the last national aelection, 2014 was a dismal 36.3%, the lowest in 72 years. please register. and vote every year. and if you're not pleased with your majority party choices -- well consider joining the 43% who told gallup this past january, that they are independents. not republicans or democrats. change -- you know the only television choice your parents had was between vhf and uhf. don't ask. today, you have 500 channels to choose from. not to mention internet satellite radio, twitter, facebook and more you're in total control of where you get your news and entertainment. exercise some choice. too many rely exclusively on

outlet defined by their ideology and that's not healthy it stifles legitimate debate. sample alternative points of view and every once in a while change that channel. sign you know anonymity breeds contempt. people say things to and about others via blog postings that they would never say if their identity were known. my advice is that you become knowledgeable and active in the affairs of your community, your state and your nation. there's no substitute for reading the news. and then having become informed go ahead and express yourself. be passionate. but sign your name. mix. bill bishop is credited with coining the fenphenomenon known as the big sort. we stopped joining the elks and bowling leagues and supporting our local newspapers and when we reengaged in the computer era, it was among more narrowly-drawn associations where our access to people of differing back

grounds and viewpoints was greatly diminished. income inequality and class segregation of the type described by charles murray in "coming apart" has only made things worse. hey, that's no way to go through leading a full life. go out of your way and seek experiences with individuals who don't look like you. and don't see the world the way that you do. good things will result for you and for society. and finally, run. never once have i regretted running unsuccessfully for the state legislature when i was just 24 years old. there's no such thing as losing if you seek elective office when you're young. no matter what you do in life you won't succeed alone. and there's no better way to gain an appreciation of the differences among people than by knocking on a few thousand doors and having to introduce yourself. if running isn't your thing, find a different way to serve. but if you're willing to enter the arena, you just might win. and we'd all benefit from new blood in the system. good luck.

thank you so much for joining me i want to wish our veteran as very happy memorial day. don't forget you can follow me on twitter if you can spell smerkonish, i'll see you next week. this is cnn breaking news -- >> following breaking news so grateful to have your company, i'm christi paul. >> and i'm joe johns in for victor blackwell. >> we want to get to the courtroom in cleveland, ohio. at any moment judge john o'donnell will deliver the verdict for this man, it's a voluntary manslaughter trial and that is police officer michael breed lowe. you're looking at. these are live pictures coming to us from the courtroom. the judge earlier had said he would be announcing this verdict. breedlow has been charged with two counts of voluntary manslaughter in the deaths of an unarmed couple. >> the victims, 43-year-old timothy russell and 33-year-old melissa williams ill killed when

police fired 137 shots at their vehicle in november of 2012 following a high-speed chase that wound through the streets of cleveland. you can see from an image we have here coming up just how many bullets went through the vehicle's windshield. the red lines show their trajectory right there. prosecutors say after the chase, brelo climbed on the hood of the chevy malibu and fired an additional 15 shots from there. >> a dozen other officers we know fired their guns as well. now prosecutors say breelo's decision to get on the hood was unreasonable and showed his intent to kill. brelo's defense said he had probable cause. that he and the other officers believed that they were going to die. we want to talk more about this case with attorney walter madison, who is with us now. he's plugged into the cleveland community and representing the family of tamir rice the 12-year-old shot