f mh-17. >> another very disturbing video. an intentional act. >> and the protesters have moved all the way down there. >> democracy is not there without freedom and freedom is not there without freedom of the press. >> this is cnn. it is breaking news of our own. 35 years after the founding of cnn, never-before-seen video from texas of the aftermath of deadly floods homes ripped from their foundations. cars tossed around like toys. we're going to go live from the flood zone for you. this is "cnn tonight." i'm don lemon. we also have the latest on the shocking past of a reality tv star. reports that josh duggar one of the stars of tlc's "19 kids and counting," allegedly molested 17 underage girls when he was a young teenager. now advertisers fleeing and the future of the show is in doubt now. the scandal shining a spotlight

on his family's ultra-conservative fundamentalist beliefs. women required to be subservient to their husbands and encouraged to have as many children as possible. tonight, we're going to take you inside the quiverful moment. but i want to begin with those flash floods that killed at least 27 people and spread destruction from texas and oklahoma all the way into northern mexico. 13 are missing. that's in hays county texas. cnn's annika cabrera live for us there. i'm going to begin with you, annika. you got a cans to see one of the hardest-hit areas in texas. what was that like? >> the devastation here is remarkable don. we are hearing from residents that the water rose so fast and with such force, it was like a tsunami hit. now that the water has receded, you get a sense of just how far up the water came. you can see the river just beyond that tree down below at

the blanco river, which rose about 30 feet in about two hours. and as we drove into the heart of the devastation, we saw home after home literally torn to bits and pieces. some homes were completely gone. nothing left but a concrete slab foundation. in all, 1,400 homes were damaged or destroyed, just in hays county alone. we talked with one resident who lost his home. he was inside with eight others. it was the middle of the night, a lot of them were asleep but they managed to get out and rush to higher ground. and while it was dark what they heard was horrific. what did it sound like? >> just a loud cracking and breaking and, you know, you can imagine, it was probably houses just breaking apart and flowing down the river. >> reporter: must have been terrifying? >> it was. it was. but we all got out. so that's good. >> reporter: again, the water was so powerful with such force, it actually ripped trees

out of the ground that were some 500 or 600 years old. so they endured past flooding but this one was just too much don. >> so there is a huge human toll to this historic storm, ana. so tell us about the rescue efforts that are ongoing now. >> reporter: i can tell you, there's still a helicopter flying overhead tonight. we know they've been searching by air, they've been searching by boat and we also witnessed rescuers on the ground with dogs today, scouring the shoreline. we know at least eight of the people who are still missing in this area were in one home that floated down the river. in fact joe mccomb's 4-year-old and 6-year-old grandchildren and his daughter-in-law, laura, were in that home and so was that children's father. that father's name jonathan. he survived. and jonathan apparently described how the water was rushing the house down the river until they hit a bridge and when it hit the bridge the house crumbled. everybody separated and fell into the water.

jonathan hit a rock, he hit his sternum, punctured a lung, but still survived. still no sign of his wife and their two beautiful children don. >> my goodness ana. pedro, i want to turn to you. authorities are saying the aftermath of the flooding may stay in houston for weeks. why is that? >> well additional rainfall is possible over some of these areas, don. you think about how the volume of water moves downstream. if you have flooding in some areas, flooding certainly will take place other areas downstream of that same river. houston, we know of course farther to the south, close to the gulf there. the flooding receding in spots, but because of the 150 rivers in this region not only in texas, but also into oklahoma arkansas that are at or above flood stage, any additional rainfall is definitely going to cause problems and the steering currents in the atmosphere have been prime positioning for all of this to take place. jet stream right over the region powerful storm system rolling across the area. southerly flow off the gulf of mexico. the amount of rainfall we're seeing is kind of akin to what you're seeing with a slow-moving

tropical storm. in fact, an area that has been hit with many tropical storms and hurricanes in the past. these are all-time records for the amount of rainfall coming down over this area. this is all around houston. and if you think about the vast majority of this it came down in about a six-hour period between 4:00 a.m. 5:00 a.m. on tuesday morning. that is a 50 to 75-year interval. look at the river gauges. they were sitting around 7 to 10 feet. as the flooding occurred spikes up to 40 feet within a matter of a couple of hours. anytime you get above 30 1/2 feet that's when i-10 begins to take on water. precisely what happened at times across this region. here's the forecast over the next couple of days from witchta falls, oklahoma city possibility of 2 to 4 inches. some areas could get 6 inches. houston, 1 to 2 inches of rainfall possible in houston. so all of this is problematic, and quickly, just touching on oklahoma city because look at the 19 inches or so that has

come down so far this month. to put that in perspective, you look at cities that have the dubious distinction for rainfall in seattle, for example, it would take them six months to accumulate what oklahoma city has seen in just 25 days. in phoenix, that would be two years worth of rainfall. in houston, on an average month, it would be five months worth of rainfall. but of course houston has picked upwards of 10 inches in a six-hour period as well. pretty wild stuff out there. >> very short amount of time. >> thank you. i want to turn now to a very shocking story. a scandal over one of the stars of tlc's "19 kids and counting." don't know if you've seen the show. it's very popular. in the week of allegations that josh duggar one of the stars, molested several girls when he was just 14. a lot of people wondering, can the show still go on? cnn's dan simon has that. >> this is the story of my family. we're the duggars. >> reporter: more troubles for the duggar family and their reality show, "19 kids and counting." at least four advertisers now withdrawing their support of the

show including general mills, choice hotels, payless shoe source and walgreens. and now several petitions on change.org are calling for tlc to cancel the series. >> so we chose jan and john david. why not have a double date? >> we are from arkansas! >> reporter: also not helping matters for the family an old clip that went unnoticed at the time now going viral. josh duggar making an incest joke in 2008 about having to take his brother and sister on a movie date with his then-fiancee. just some of the latest fallout after reports surfaced that josh duggar the 27-year-old charismatic oldest child was accused of molesting several girls, including some of his siblings starting when he was 14. "in touch" magazine obtaining a 2006 springdale arkansas police report that called it forcible fondling. the magazine reporting that one of the victims may have been as young as 5 years old. the police report says that josh duggar confessed to his father

jimbob duggar who then apparently waited more than a year before contacting authorities. instead, the duggars say they told elders at their church and received counseling. although according to the magazine that was seemingly contradicted by his wife michelle whom "in touch" says admitted to police that josh did not receive counseling and instead, had been sent to a family friend who was in the home remodeling business. in a statement friday josh duggar says he quote, acted inexcusably. with the scandal brewing, tlc has suspended the show and has not said whether it will turn at all. >> hello. how may i help you? >> reporter: it certainly wouldn't be the first time a reality show a tlc show no less has gotten pummeled by a scandal. "here comes honey boo boo," the show chronicling the family of a family beauty contestant got scrapped after claims the girl's mother was dateing a man who served 10 years in prison after being convicted of aggravated

child molestation. and "duck dynasty," the a&e family suspend for a week after phil robertson made controversial remarks about race and sexuality to "gq" magazine. ratings have slipped, though it may be viewer fatigue with the show in its seventh season. >> well we should point out that josh duggar does have his supporters including gop presidential candidate, mike huckabee who says that good people can do terrible things. he's also got the support from a guy named michael seewald, seewald is the father-in-law of one of josh duggar's sisters and he says he is rooting in josh for part because he sought forgiveness for those he wronged and that he has repented for his sins. >> dan simon, thank you for that report. vicky garrison is here a former blogs at no longer quivering.com. vicky, good to have you on this evening. you have seven children and

lived a similar life to the duggars. you say both josh duggar's actions and how this family responded could have been predicted. why do you say that? >> i believe that the family particularly jimbob and michelle duggar were following what they consider to be biblical principles in dealing with this sort of situation. rather than seeing it as a crime and looking at it you know according to the law, or according to therapy and the sort of secular discipline they're going to see it through spiritual eyes. they're going to see it as a sin problem that has to be dealt, with the heart and, you know, before god. and so that's what they're going to do. >> so what are the spiritual principles. you say they're looking at it through spiritual principles. what does that mean? what principles? >> according to the duggar family and this is a very common teaching within this quiverful movement. god has these channels of

authority that they work through. and that would begin with god at the head of course and then after that comes the family. the next highest authority. and within that family of course the father is the ultimate judge. he is the one who makes the final choices. but then after that they would look to the church elders the church body you know so it's very much this whole idea of what's going on here is a heart problem, it's a character issue, that's why they would send him off to do hard labor, to kind of distract him, get him on a different, you know, rather than seeing it as okay this was a crime, this is something that is a serious issue that we need professional help to deal with this. >> but it is a crime and it is an issue where people need professional help to deal with it. i don't think anybody, i mean regardless if you're a christian or not, it's a crime. and if you have those issues -- >> absolutely. >> -- then a professional needs to deal with them.

so why dupg we're just hearing about this now? why wasn't it dealt with before? >> you know i think that they honestly believe that they did deal with it and that's what they keep saying in their reports -- >> well they're wrong. they're just wrong. >> -- it was something that -- yeah. there was no professional counseling. there was no criminal charges, so no it wasn't dealt with. but in their minds, this was something that they'd already taken care of it was in the past and so it really just didn't need to be brought out into the public. >> well perhaps that's -- that's an issue that should be dealt with when people think that they can just deal with their spirituality and not have to deal with the reality of the law in the real world. so let's talk about this. this is father-in-law, josh duggar's sister, jessa, spoke out in support of josh and also said that the duggar parents should be committed --

commended, excuse me the word is wrong. here's what he says. josh's parents acted in a way that godly parents should. they did not turn a blind eye, but ernestly sought help from the church counselors and eventually the police. they acted decisively to confront the sin, to call a petentant son back from his errors. >> they are looking at all of this and interpreting it through narrow biblical, according to their ideals their biblical values their biblical world view. and within that family is ultimate. and spirituality you know, they're seeing angels and demons at work here. they're seeing spiritual forces of darkness. and so they believe that, you know, satan has brought this into their home. that they're under an attack and

this is a test from god. so this is all the kind of stuff that's going on in their mind. and they're not even thinking about -- >> doesn't that seem like a disconnection from reality? >> it is a major disconnect from reality. i always refer to quiverful as being a very powerful head trip in which you get this vision and all of a sudden it's like putting on this huge filter. and everything that comes at you, every thought, has to be filtered through and channeled through this idea of biblical principles what does god want, what does god say, what principles can we glean from the bible that will apply to the situation. >> why did you leave? >> it's a very unsustainable lifestyle. i mean, i didn't have 19 children i had 7. but it takes a lot out of a woman. it takes a lot out of the children. particularly the older children who, you know, a mom -- one mom cannot deal with all those kids. especially if she's, you know, she's having baby after baby so she doesn't have a chance to recover her health. she's got, you know, just mounds

of work laundry, cooking, and then she takes on the home-schooling of her children you know there's just way too much for one woman to do. but, you know, in this quiverful lifestyle, they teach you, you're training your daughters to, you know one day become wives and moms themselves. and so you can even call this home-schooling if you're teaching your daughters to you know change diapers or to do some laundry or to do some cooking. and that is how they justify it. and it's really the older daughters who are, you know, basically making that lifestyle possible. >> because they're working -- >> and they're not doing that great of a job of it. because they're kids themselves. they're being parentified so it's not a healthy situation. >> i appreciate your candor. vyckie garrison thank you so much. >> when we come back is there a double standard in this case? can the duggars save share show

and their reputations? and police under fire. i'll talk to the man who says police work is not as dangerous as you may think. he calls it the myth of the hero cop and you'll hear both sides tonight. ...if hiring plumbers, carpenters and even piano tuners were just as simple? thanks to angie's list now it is. we've made hiring anyone from a handyman to a dog-walker as simple as a few clicks. buy their services directly at angieslist.com. no more calling around. no more hassles. and you don't even have to be a member to start shopping today. angie's list is revolutionizing local service again. visit angieslist.com today. automotive innovation starts... right here. with a control pad that can read your handwriting, a wide-screen multimedia center, and a head-up display for enhanced driver focus. all inside a redesigned cabin of unrivaled style and comfort.

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she joins us advisoryvia skype. i'm happy to have you all here. ken, i'll begin with you, tlc began the show with advertisers leaving now, should they take the next step and cancel this program? >> no they should not. this is the so-called learning channel. i really feel that reality tv deserves to become more real. so when something like this happens, let the duggars come back on for another season and confront what happened in their lives, as a result of this. i think that there's a kind of hypocrisy in not having tlc allow them to do that. >> you know i thought about that earlier, and i was thinking maybe that's right, but how do you know that they're going to handle it properly. that they'll have the proper professionals there to deal with it. that you're not going to out the victims in the family. >> you don't know that at all, but it's a chance you take with reality television. i just think that the opportunity is there to raise issues of child molestation and

beyond that, there are facts like josh duggar used his celebrity on this show to become a member of the family research channel, from which perch he has campaigned against lbgt civil rights legislation in his own state, saying that it poses arm to children and women. >> so nothing poses more arm to women and children than molesting or touching a child that doesn't want you to touch them. that's as harmful as you can get. mel, weigh in. do you think the show should be canceled? >> you know don, i don't think anyone should watch it but whether or not it's canceled is tlc's prerogative. and i tend to agree with ken, if they really are the learning channel, they need to pull up their, you know, big girl panties and really face this head-on. and if people don't watch, the show will get canceled. it happens every single day on network television and cable television but we can't have

people kind of upset and that's the reason why it's canceled. either people say it's on our brand or it's not on their brand. and stoto me personally i find the whole thing disgusting. the other thing i'm worried about is the majority of people that molest were molested as kids. no one's talking about the fact that he potentially could have been a victim when he was younger, potentially, by somebody in his -- >> mel? >> go ahead. >> that was my question. i tend to agree, i don't think people should lose their jobs for making a mistake or a show should be canceled but in this particular case it is so delicate when you have victims, alleged victims that are within the family and they were children, and there's a potential of being outed, and for them being re-victimized again, that's the only reason why i think -- if the show is going to continue they must deal with this but in order to deal with it it must be done in the proper way. my question to you, kate this is -- these are questions about, you know beliefs.

and to most people even if you are a believer they are disconnected from reality. if they don't believe that this is a crime. and this shouldn't be dealt with professionally. >> absolutely. and i think the duggar case has been a wake-up call to a swath of evangelicalism that has kind of avoided some of these more institutional means of dealing with things like child abuse, as well as mental illness, as well as a number of serious conditions that we're learning that we can't handle all these things alone, even as the church even if we believe that jesus is sovereign over all of these areas of our life. we have to see that he can be working through these more practical and professional channels. for the well-being of our communities and our families and also for our witness to the world. no one's going to trust evangelicals who believe that they have it all, all the knowledge, and all the power to themselves and are not looking

to professional counselors and law enforcement. >> there's a certain degree of arrogance there. you're an attorney mel. i have to ask you, the victims, the alleged victims are their children and the perpetrator, so how do you deal with that? how should they have dealt with that? >> well there's a couple of ways to answer this don. first of all, let's take a step back. are the there any criminal charges that can be brought? possibly. the problem is that the victims probably won't be cooperating, which means you actually can't make out a case. the thing that i find -- >> and the statute of limitations is up right? >> yeah. and also the fact that if you don't have victims that are going to cooperate with any kind of criminal investigation or prosecution, don, you don't have a case to bring, even if -- >> but you don't know that. there may be people out there and some of the people in the family may want to. they just feel they're part of the family now, and they can't do it. they can't actually go to the authorities on their own, but maybe if there's some sort of investigation, they would feel more comfortable, if their privacy is being -- >> yeah you know what don --

you're absolutely right. and i think what's so offensive about this thing is that what is offensive is not only the attacks that took place, but the fact that they circled the wagons and took care of it inside the family. what if sandusky had done that at penn state? he's you know, let's say he had said oh, well i'm of a certain religion, so i talked to my counselor, people go away. this is all taken care of. we wouldn't stand for that but we're going to do it with the duggars? >> once again, reality tv ought to become more real. we ought to examine the fact that mike huckabee came out very strongly in favor of the duggars and in part because he helped jimbob run for elected office. this all ties in with a portrait of a family that presented itself as a beacon of family values not just themselves, but the way they were shot and edited by the family that was filming them that produced this show. and i think that that is the hypocrisy of reality tv. >> well, this is -- >> it doesn't show people as

three-dimensional, flawed people who need to be condemned -- >> please! this is not reality tv that's to blame, it's the duggars. >> mike huckabee his statement, he said josh's actions when he was an underaged teen are as he described them himself, inexcusable, but that doesn't mean unforgivable. he and his family dealt with it and were honest and open about it with the victims and the authorities. so kate do you think they were honest and open about it with the victims is and with the authorities? >> i'm just troubled by the idea that josh duggar's state of forgiveness has been such a focus of this conversation whether or not he can be forgiven or restored when the focus should be the victim and whether or not they were given adequate resources for healing, which my assumption would be probably not. because, like you said it's dealt with in house, so i've been happy to hear from a number of christians and evangelicals speaking up to say, similar things that happen to them and

to point out more and more resources available for christian institutions to know how to deal with these processes, and to seek the right authorities, for treatment. >> the only statement we've heard from josh duggar is him saying if i had continued to go down this road my life would have been ruined. not a word about the victims. all the more reason to place cameras in front of josh duggar and keep his feet to the fire pb&pb and let us see what -- >> but not on reality tv. how about in a court of law. >> it's hard to do when the statute of limitations has run out. that's going to have to be the last word. >> that's why reality tv could be doing it. >> but this happens more than we know, because it often goes unreported. it's good to talk about it and to try to remove the stigma so people can, especially the victims, they feel that they can come forward. thank you, appreciate all of you joining me this evening.

when we come back some of the worst violence baltimore has ever seen. why may, this month, is turning out to be the deadliest month in that city in more than 15 years. ♪ when you set out to find new roads,

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. deadly violence on the rise in two american cities. in chicago over the long memorial weekend, at least 12 people shot and killed that's according to the "chicago tribune," and similar carnage in baltimore. at least nine people killed in 29 shootings this weekend. this is the deadliest month in baltimore in more than 15 years. police have tallied 35 homicides so far, and there are still -- that was this month. there's five days left in may. miguel marquez is with us in baltimore this evening. i think there was like 50-some shootings or almost 50 shootings in chicago. but back to baltimore now, where miguel is why such an outbreak of violence miguel? >> well it's a little unclear. there's several different theories. one is there's just general street violence. that seems to be the strongest theory that you have, sort of street corners that are fought over for turf whether it's drugs or other things and a lot of it is due to that.

there's also a sense that the police are standing down. there's also a concern that it's gang warfare, but the gangs have said no we aren't engaging in any sort of warfare. it's a little unclear, but i think it's the whole mix of things that have happened since freddie gray's death, the protests that have broke out, the arrests of the officers a very very tense time in baltimore, don. >> miguel i remember seeing your interview with this officer, he wanted to remain anonymous, his voice was changed, i think he was in a hoodie but he had a disturbing message. what did he tell you? >> well in a very direct way, this officer said i'll let him speak for himself, said there is basically a coordinated work slowdown by fellow officers. >> officers stop being proactive. >> not patrolling? >> not patrolling just stop being proactive. >> not talking to the community? >> just stop being proactive. i believe this is a direct result from officers holding

back. >> reporter: and basically what he says they go into their morning meeting, their morning briefings, they get their orders are told where the crime areas are, walk out of that meeting, and decide amongst themselves at lower levels we're not doing that. we're only going to protect ourselves and respond to 911 calls and not going to do the basics of policing. that may change. the rest of the city though is seeing a spike in violence as well don. >> miguel marquez, thank you, miguel. appreciate that. i'm joined now by neal franklin. head trainer for the baltimore police. there he is. i've been reading these stories, as they have been unfolding over especially this weekend, neil. you have close ties to baltimore and you say that this wave of violence is directly tied to the curfew and the riots. explain that. >> well yeah there are three basic reasons, and baltimore, like many cities like chicago,

has a very healthy drug trade an elicit drug trade. and the riot then followed by the curfew disrupted that drug trade. and we in law enforcement know when you disrupt the balance of the elicit drug trade, soon after you experience violence many times. so case in point, for more than a week. the corners where drugs are being sold in open air drug markets, those have literally been shut down especially in west baltimore, where they have a very heavy police presence. in addition to that we have a number of pharmacies that were looted. and a large number of pharmaceutical painkillers. oxycontin, percocet those opiate-based painkillers. a large number have flooded our streets here in baltimore. that in and of itself will drive the prices down. >> but does that explain -- >> and when you have that happen -- >> i understand what you're saying. so now you have all of these prescription drugs, that are out

on the street right? but not cocaine, heroin whatever the normal. so that changes the drug trade there. at least until you run out of these drugs, that are gotten from the pharmacy there. but that doesn't -- >> right. and with the -- >> go ahead. >> no with the empty street corners, with the empty street corners during the week of the curfew and the riots, now those street corners are back in business. and the competition is extremely heavy now. >> neil that doesn't explain the writing less tickets, less people being arrested that doesn't explain that. >> that's my third point. that's the third point. i have three points. sorry, i mentioned the two. the disruption in the drug trade, from the riot and the curfews, and then the influx of pharmaceuticals driving the prices down and the third point here is the far fewer arrests being made. the police are not being as proactive. so yes, there are more guns on the streets, because i guarantee you, if they had been more active they would have recovered more guns from people

they would have made more arrests, of not just those who would have perpetrated crimes but also victims of crimes. >> okay. we're going to talk solutions -- >> so yeah -- >> we're going to talk solutions when we come right back. stay with me here. and also talk about this. because i read an article, i want you to respond to this article, it's called request t the myth of the hero cop," the author claims that being a police officer is not really a daunlgs dangerous job and joins me next. it's so shiny. i know, mommy, but it's time to let the new kitchen get some sleep. if you want beautiful results, you know where to go - angie's list. now everyone can get highly rated service even without a membership. you can shop special offers or use the snapfix feature to tell us what you need and we'll help you find a local company to take care of it. angie's list is there for all your projects, big and small. pretty. come see what the new angie's list can do for you.

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a lot of people think the police officers who are sworn to protect us as heroes but not my next guest. he is a writer and a lawyer whose article, "the myth of a hero cop" is on slate.com right now. you can go and read it. also back with me is retired police officer, neil franklin. neil good to have you back. mr. figa thanks for being on. so you say since september 11th there's a false and dangerous narrative about hero cops. what do you mean? >> we have built up this idea that police officers who often

do heroic things are all essentially heros and blanketed the entire police force with this narrative, which essentially protects them from exactly the kind of scrutiny which we as a society should demand from them. >> you say it's not all that dangerous of a profession. that's shocking to a lot of people. >> well it is. and it's interesting. and i want to make clear, it's not what i say. i based it on the bureau of labor statistics numbers. it turns out the federal government actually compiles these numbers and look at it in all kind of different professions and publish those numbers, and i have to say, i, too, was somewhat surprised when i saw it. and i thought, hey, why is there this disjointed sense, where we think, oh, my god, they're in gun battles every day, on tv every week they're being gunned down. and in fact it's just not the case. so i went and looked at the numbers and that's what i referenced in the piece. >> you're talking about the bureau of labor statistics. and you said police work does not crack the top ten list of

most dangerous jobs. loggers have a fatality rate of 11 times higher than cops. and sanitation workers die in the line of duty at twice the rate that police do. police are sometimes shot and killed but it is fairly a rare phenomenon. what do you think about that neil? >> well i'm very familiar with the statistics and he's absolutely correct. truck drivers even have a higher rate of injury and death than police officers. and as he said we don't even make the top ten. and i'm very very concerned about the safety and well-being of my counterparts out there. and the job that they do. but you can't argue with those statistics. we need in law enforcement those people who, number one, understand that there is some level of inherit risk in doing the job that they do. and i know that we hear police officers saying all the time that their number one priority is getting home to family. i personally think that their number one priority is ensuring that everyone gets home to family not just the police

officers. >> and so david, you say that this myth has been perpetrated by police unions, right, and it's done a lot of harm leading to increasingly militaryized police departments, which we've talked about a lot, overly generous pay and benefits and an us versus them mentality. but isn't that the job of the police unions to advocate for their officers? >> well yes and no. it's certainly the job of the police unions but we have been partisan in really buying into this and really buying into this narrative, which does i think, have some really dangerous implications. because the thing is if we see all cops as heroes we don't question them. and more importantly, they don't question themselves. and as a consequence, there's not accountability and there's not the kind of interplay between the police and the citizenry that is important in a healthy democracy. >> so we've been talking about baltimore and there is possibly a slowdown there among police officers who are not being protected. and david, you say that it cost

taxpayers more than $8.5 billion a year to pay for the nypd and between salary overtime and the value of their benefits the average beat cop costs taxpayers more than $150,000 per year. that's a lot of money. so police officers then are slowing down. they're not really doing what they are supposed to do they're sworn to protect, right? >> let me make two points. one is i'm not here to quibble about how much police officers do or don't get paid. but it's important that we understand it. because, you know, the number that gets thrown out there every time is the starting salary which doesn't begin to cover what we as taxpayers actually pay our police force. and in terms of the slowdown all i'm going to say is look these are civil servants. if our teachers decided, you know we're just not going to educate our kids today, i think there would be hell to pay. >> neill, you say there's a question going around that maybe this is some sort of revolution considering what's happened in

the last year with policing. you're saying that a lot of people are going to have to leave their jobs as police officers in order for there to be a revolution. yeah i think so. i think that some have already decided to leave, because they feel that they're not getting the support that they deserve. i personally think that they are. i think that they needed to be committed to the job that they have signed on to do. they've taken an oath to serve the public. and on the other side of that coin we the people who are going to have to work at purging our police departments of those officers who are abusive, those officers who we know that have lied on the stand and perjured themselves on the stand, and we need to take a proactive measure in ensuring that that happens. and city governments should be leading that. >> and that is the solution that we promise. thank you very much neill frank franklin franklin. coming up a white officer found not guilty in the shooting deaths of two unarmed black suspects.

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visit tripadvisor.com today we told you about a deadly memorial weekend in chicago with 12 people killed in shootings.

one shooting caught on dash cam. here it is. it's saturday it's in broad daylight. and it's posted on youtube. no one was injured and police tell us they are looking the for the suspect. the shooting caught right on camera. meanwhile, protests in cleveland this week after police officer michael burrello was found not guilty. about a dozen officers fired 137 bullets into their car. officer burrello fired 15 of those shots after a chase through the streets of cleveland with as many as 62 police cars involved. joining me now is the russell family's attorney his name is paul crystalo and timothy russell's sister. michelle you doing okay? >> i'm doing okay. thank you for having us don. >> thank you for coming on. this was a case where the officer actually went to trial. we don't always see that. so what was your reaction when

the verdict was read? >> i was very upset by the verdict. i felt that the judge in this particular case didn't -- i don't think that he looked at all of the evidence. i felt like he could have charged officer brillo with felonyious assault, but he chose to acquit him. i never felt he was going to be brought up on charges for manslaughter but i thought there was enough evidence to convict him of felonious assault. >> because they're not sure if the fatal shots came from the officer, therefore they couldn't convict him of that. what you said. so there were demonstrations michelle over the weekend, after the verdict was announced. what do you want those protesters to know? >> well i want them to know that we're going to continue to fight and we're going to continue to fight for justice. there's other steps, measures

that we can take as a community. we'll get together and organize and try to figure out what needs to be done in order to stop these senseless murders. because that's what they are. people are being murdered. and it's not right. it's not fair. >> you've gone through all the evidence and you pay close attention to this yourself. why do you think there was a cover-up involved. explain that to me. >> i just feel that the officers they presented their particular version of the event, of what happened the night of november 29th of 2012. and there was never any other scenario considered. they only went exactly by what the police officers were saying and if you look at a lot of the evidence especially the depositions and the different chatter that was being talked about over the radio, during the chase. just different stories that the officers came out and testified to about the fact that there

was no gun. that you know, that my brother never had a gun. that they saw the car backfire several times. there was a lot of different testimony that i felt was overlooked. and i felt like there was a cover-up because with the depositions, you know, officers were contradicting, i think -- >> that's why i need to talk to paul. paul you're an attorney and i know you represent the family. did you represent them in court? >> i represented them in a civil lawsuit against the city of cleveland, but the state, obviously, represented their interests -- >> so if you're watching this, do you think that it was just the officers who were able to present their side? the state didn't present their side well enough? >> well i tell you the truth, don, i don't know if it's the state didn't present their side well enough one of the things that i think was inherent in brillo getting a not guilty verdict was the fact that the judge only had the evidence that they presented in front of them

which was brillo's shots. so it was going to be very very difficult, to say the least, to prove a voluntary manslaughter when you have other officers who fired kill shots who weren't defendants when you only charge one officer. and now you're going to try to determine, well did he kill tim and melissa, or was it these other kill shots? i mean built into the prosecution is an inherent flaw. it's going to be very very difficult to get a conviction. the voluntary manslaughter right out of the box, was going to be very difficult. >> i've got just a quick question if you can answer it very quickly, i'll ask michelle one thing and i don't have a lot of time. what's next for the family. legally? >> well i think the department of justice announced that they're going to investigate this verdict and the evidence that was presented. right now, we'll continue to have faith and let the federal government step in. >> michelle what do you want people to know about your brother? people are asking why the chase, why 62 police cars? what do you want people to know about that and your brother? >> i want people to know that my

brother, i feel that his character was attacked. you know i feel like they mischaracterized him. my brother wasn't the person that they tried to make him out to be like this thug this person that was out to kill the police or shoot the police. my brother didn't even know how to use a gun. he would never shoot at the police. he would never try to run anybody over with his car. he was a christian and he loved people. my brother would not hurt a fly. he would help ants and flies off a house in order to not have to kill them. i mean he was very -- >> michelle -- >> i'm sorry? >> i don't want to be rude but i have to go. it's up against a clock. it's the end of the show. appreciate you coming on appreciate spending time with you. >> i understand. >> glad you understand. see you back. "a.c. 360" starts right after this quick break.

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