a disgraced reality tv star and a family in term oil. what really happened behind closed doors in the dugga rrr. he's apologized for molesting multiple young girls when he was a teenager. but is that the ender of the story and what about the young victims? plus fears of new aflash floods in texas and oklahoma tornado watches from oklahoma to

nebraska. and a heat wave so brutal it's melting roads. what's behind all of this weird weather and is it time to stop arguing and start doing something? >> but i want to start with the duggar story. he's not just a reality tv star he's a familiar face on the stump with politicians or at least, he was until now. >> reporter: the duggars, a reality clan preaching their believes beyond tlc, powering into the political field. matriarch of the family michelle last august recorded this robo call asking them to protest an antidiscrimination ordinance. >> i doubt they kwd wd stand for a law that would indanger their

daughters or allow them to be traumatized by man joining them in their private space. >> she left out what was happening in her own family's private space. according to this police report the family did not take josh duggar to the authorities in 2002 when they family first learned about an alleged sexual assault. and a few years later, a tip prompts an official police investigation. the allegations not becoming public until last week. only then josh duggar saying he's extremely sorry and as parents, we're not a perfect family. the eldest in a cast of many on tlc pfls 19 and counting he was jock teeing be a prime political player speaking about christian and family values.

>> we have -- >> reporter: a potent symbol to candidates with the evangelical case. and josh's actions when he was an underaged teen are, as he describe said, himself, inexcusable but that doesn't mean forgivable. long time crisis manager said the repuginant part isn't just the alleged sex crime. >> they judge all these people when you know you have this in your past. it just doesn't make sense and in the end, they are responsible for the death of their own brand. >> reporter: a brand and a family waiting to see if tlc decides to bring it back. >> thank you.

for that. i want to bring in a woman who knows all too well the trauma of being a sexual abuse survivor. she was abused at the age of sex and went on to fund airerin's law and author of "an unimaginable act" and erin marron joins me now. you actually met with the duggar family a year ago. how did that all come about? >> i was speak at a child abuse conference and they just happened to be attending and as i was signing books afterwards they had asked me erin would you come into our home and talk to our children about erin's law and how this edge kats kids in schools in how to speak up and tell if they've been sexually abused. so i spent two hours that evening talking to nine of their kids about speak up and telling if you've been abused and how

i've been taking this law from one state to another and it's currently passed in 23 states. >> just two months ago, the duggars wrote about that. "our friend erin went through a lot of tragic abuse growing up. i can only imagine you must have thought when this news broke about the family. do you think they had an ulterior motive that they brought you in there to unknowingly counsel them and their children? without your knowledge? >> yeah. i would look tat that way as maybe they were using from their experience as a way to learn, they were maybe in that room for a reason hearing me speak and they thought, this v an opportunity to bring this message to our kids that if this was ever to happen to you again or any of you for the first time speak up and tell don't

keep it a secret. i comend me for bringing me into their home and not being in denial about what had all happened. >> did you sense anything was wrong during this initial meeting meeting. >> no not at all. no weird feelings or anything when i went into their home. >> what did you think when the news broke? >> i was shocked but at the same time this is a silent epidemic. there are 42 million survivors here in america alone that have been sexually abused j 93% of the time it's someone children know and trust. not the stranger danger we warn kids up and down about. >> i always say, being a survive myself, that people aren't always who they present

themselves to be in public usually they aren't. the statsz you're talking about from the cdc and the u.s. department of health and human services a 2002 study. let's go back now, i want to go back to josh duggar. he said my parents arranged for me and those affected by my actions to receive counseling. i understood that if i continued down this wrong road i would end up ruining my life. i sought forgiveness from those i had wronged and asked christ to forgive me and come into my life. i know you're a religious woman but does that make you angry that he only mentions himself? >> no. the media is focusing so much on josh duggar and how did they handle this?

did they do the right thing or not? by rehashing this over and over and over again in the media, we are revictimizing these girls. it's bringing it all up into their face again and the best thing we can do is bring them their privacy and allow them to heal because this is opening that wound all over again. >> i have to challenge you in a way there. i understand what you're saying. i think if continuing the show that girls can be revictimized but if you're in a media, you can help people because it's more common that people realized and the stigma needs to be taken off of it. >> i totally agree with you. and if the show is coming back on the air, i'm not sure if it's going to. butif it does they're going to

need to try to bring awareness of it and not keep the secrets swept under the floor like so many families do. get out there and talk about it the same way i'm. >> so far your law is in 23 states including arkansas where the duggars live. do you think it could have helped here, the duggar kids because they're home schooled? >> and that was one of the reasons they brought me into home they said we want your message to get to the home schooling families. you should attend these national conferences so kids who do home school can bring this message into the home and they had actually introduced me to the legislator in iowa and i was just in columbus last month talking about erin's law.

>> i really appreciate you coming on. >> no, thank you. >> the duggar family will never be the same but also a huge head ache for tlc. can it survive? you know tlc has pulled the show off the air, sponsors are fleeing. should this show be canceled erick? >> well i'm not big fan of many of these kinds of shows, so i wouldn't shed a tear if "19 kids and counting" went down for the count, to be honest. in particular you look at this and tlc has had problems with "here comes honey boo boo". these are families often under stress there's some dysfunction that is in their background and because of the structure of the show, the show tries to present the family as relatable. a tape type of family that

anyone can relate to. so i think fear is an inherent resistance to delve nothing to the family's background and finding out if there's anything like these secrets that we've seen come out about the duggars and the family behind "here comes honey boo boo." and in the end, these families end up emploeding on television. and it seems there's some sort of balancing act that they're doing here and they're exploiting the families until they implode and then walk away and express sorrow and not held accountable. >> they don't give a proper explanation that the public wants to hear. i'm sure he would have been judged harshly but not as harshly had they were not perceived to be hypocritical and

showing one set of values and criticizing others. do you think it's part of that hypocrisy that they're being judged so harshly now a? >> certainly that's adding fuel to the fire that they have set themselves as world paragones and people sort of feel they're on the wrong side of already in terms of gay rights and gay marriage and then to have an issue where they had an issue in the family and they don't seem to have dealt with it particularly well and there's questions about how long it took them to deal with it and whether children in the family were given adequate counseling. all of that gives fuel to the fire. but they're imploding on air anyway. and we even saw it with john and

kate gausoslin where their family unravelled on air. and you wondering if the pressure of the show added to the problems they were having as a problem. i have a real problem with these shows and i wish most of them would go away to be honest. >> they say we're deeply troubled by this heart breaking situation and our thoughts j prayers are with the family and victims at this time". do you think this is going to affect reality television? >> i can be a bit cynical as a journalist and when you're in this field, in reality television doing these kinds of shows, you're always pushing the envelope a little bit and there may come a point when you cross

the line and i think people who work in this genre are well aware that they're presenting people who may implode at any time and they sort of have to have an exit strategy. i'm not sure that is going to change reality tv that much unless sponsors can be convinced to not support these shows and viewers can be convinced to stop watching them. once they're not profitable they'll walk away. and frankly, i think pressure needs to be on tlc to have their executives explain what happened in these shows. this is the second show this year where they've pulled it off having to do with sexual child abuse with someone on the show and thats is really problematic. so the next time they want to present a family they have some questions to answer about these

past shows. >> and there may be another one already in the works. always appreciate your perspective. we have a lot more to come on the story. he apologized but parentapparently had no therapy. and a woman who knows owhat it's like the be raised home schools like the duggars is known as a rembrandt. at gmc, we get why people love that kind of precision. after all, in everything we build... that's exactly... what we deliver. this is precision. welcome to the show. welcome to gmc.

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molested girls and some family members. what about treatment and counseling? it's unclear if he received any help and i want to talk to dr. drew. and dr. drew, as a doctor what compels someone to do what josh duggar admits doing? >> you're actually skag very complicated question. and one of the key deficiencies is that he was never assessed as far as we know what was going on to determine if he could be treated. he might be someone who was suffering greatly and could be treated, rather than someone with a sexualorian orientation strictly towards children and

then he may need to be policed and never lose that. i treat a lot of people with these sorts of histories in their child hood. the main reason they become a perpetrator is there's a history in their background. and there are many other reasons and associations. but villify him if you will, it's not aabout him just needing to understand well he did something wrong here he needs to straighten out and fly right. no he's a sick man with a dist orted motivation caused by something that probably could be treated and if not, we need to know too, so he can be kept away from these other kids. >> here's what i want to know. and people think this is so icky to talk about, uncomfortable to

talk about sexuality in child hood. and what's normal? >> it's very simple. let's just lay it out this way. children 12 and under prepubtle children do not have a motivational system that leads to do directive sexual activity. they can be curious and interested in looking. they do not do sexualized activities unless it's been introduced by an adult and let's be fair in this age of pornography. but it is only the result of adult introducing this into the child's world that they be directed into this direction, they literally start reenacting the trauma of what may have been done to them and may do it to other children. it's exceedingly common and

destruct frvktctive for the victims. and we don't know what has been done for the victims in this case. >> that's a problem. we're not talking about the victims and having been stuck in that home again, perhaps for a long time with the person who is accused of -- who has admitted to abusing them and then say, you know what god has forgiven him. what about the victims? >> it's right where the rubber hits the road. these children are stuck with the perpetrator for years, all the time being told it's fine you're fine because god has taken care of all this and josh knows what's right and gosh darnt, he knows what he's supposed to be doing. it's not a cognitive process, it's a motivational drive and to leave these kids around their perpetrator chronically, for some might be in the order of torture. we don't know.

we don't know the extent of what happened and if these kids have been assessed. >> kids are curious. what do you do with that? mommy, daddy, what's that? >> they almost don't even go that far. it doesn't make sense to them that way, unless an adult directed motivationsal system is brought into the equation. >> but at the age of 14, he should vhave known better. >> i'm sure he knew he did something wrong. maybe he had trauma. we don't know what happened with him. it's puberty that brings on the drive and when that is directed towards children now you have a problem. >> he said it was a long time in the past and he learned his lessen. >> i don't know what that means

monopoly . i wish i could teach a lesn to child molesters. you can't learn a lessen about this condition. >> can this be cured? >> sure some people. there are good treatments out there and you have to work on it. and just like other motivational disturbances like addiction, the patients to the work hard and want to get better. >> i've interviewed them and you've talked to them who had that pred lection. they will say, i just can't help myself. >> some can't. and it can be a chronic fixed sexual orientation and i don't know if that's what is going on here or not. >> my concern is they won't have the proper experts and that may

revict mise the victims. >> you know i know the tlc executives and the tv critic was very critical of them but they are very thoughtful people and i'm certain, they were thinking if they were to do t they would have the leading exprtsz aderts ad advising them in this. and i don't have the answer. i do like that this conversation is happening because thy these are exceedingly common problems and the people who have been the victim wall the experience off, believe it didn't effect them but it effects brain development and relationships forever. >> dr. drew, great conversation. thank you. you can see the new dr. drew on our sister network, hln. 9:00 p.m. eastern on hln.

the duggars are home schooled. up next i'm going to talk to a man who was home schooled in the same program. don't go away. there's a more enjoyable way to get your fiber. try phillips' fiber good gummies plus energy support. it's a new fiber supplement that helps support regularity and includes b vitamins to help convert food to energy. mmmmm, these are good! nice work, phillips! the tasty side of fiber, from phillips'.

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jim and michelle duggar home schooled their kids. and now joining me he went to the same home schooling program. and good evening to all of you. john i have to start with you, because you were home schooled the same teachings that the duggars used. they talk about them on the show. let's listen. >> when josh our first was only 8 months old it was adecided that we wanted to home school. our words we're going to work on today are sin nim of uderly dependent. we decided we wanted to use the ati curriculum because it

focuses on character and bringing gautdlyodly character into our lives. >> does it teach about sexual abuse? >> not directly. it was created by man named big gauther. he goes back to the 1970s and 1980s. he had a seminar in the 1970s. had thousands of attendees across the nation. in the 1980s, he develops this home school curriculum called the advanced training institute. sex is not something that was talked about. in fact sex was always this awkward tab oo subject you didn't want to talk about. but it created this infatuation of sex by the sheer fact that -- >> it ignored. so the duggar children had no idea about sexual abuse, would they? >> probably not.

my guess is they probably thought something was wrong but didn't really know what and some could even speculate that some of them are just now figure out what happened to them and how wrong it was. >> so, sexual therapy would have even been taboo under this program. would they have received the proper counseling now? >> absolutely not. professional counseling is definite lay looked upon with a lot of skepticism. if they got counseling it would have been through the ati program, through gother. they may have even talked to bill gauthard himself, but he's not a licensed professional counselor and would have been based on what i believe are some wacky ideas of sex is abuse, the body and all that. >> i know this hits home for you

and this really upsets you. what upsets you the most? >> it more sadens me than upset me. the one thing does do is reorient the way we think about child hood sexual abuse. i wrote a memoir and i have been going around the country for the last 8 months talk about this subject. >> you're a survival. >> exactly. and people don't quite understand what sexual abuse looks like in america. they think of it as catholic priests but the data shows us the one wage the most offender is a 14-year-old which is the age that josh was at least one of the years he was accused of -- admitted to been an abuser. half of all children who are abused are under the age of 11 and of that cohort the number

of that age is four yeared old. and we have to stop think about this as being an adult and a kid in their teens and start thinking about it being an older child and a younger child and that reoriants our thinking and discussion of when we start to talk to children about the sanctity of your body and when should you say something and being able to trust people and being able to protect these kids better. and most of the attacks occur in the home. >> and the kid who is being abused doesn't usually tell because think the older person is going to judge them. i didn't tell my mother until i was 30 years old. >> that's the thing. people holdn to it for nan credible amount of time and think about the amount of

psychic damage being done. imagine it happens when you're four-year-old and you go to college and still don't have your own medical coverage to get counseling on your own. two decades of trying to deal with it yourself. >> and he's forgiven but what about me i'm the victim now. and josh duggar sued the arkansas department of human services before the investigation began and what are the possibilities here? >> that is very mysterious and intriguing. my educated guess, practicing in this area and for years i've worked with sexual abuse. and they were probably working on restrictions of what he could do in the home with those little girls and he probably didn't like the restrictions and was chal chging it and trying to get

them to change their order. that's just a guess. i have read the entire police report and it says the little girls forgave him. that's so disturbing to me. what kind of conversation was had with them? did they get to fully voice and process or were they etold, it's time for you to forgive your brother? i don't think you can ask a child to forgive a child molester when they're still a child. some decide as adults to forgive, it's a very personal decision but it really troubles me that these little girls were made to say that while they were still little girls. >> in the same way that you cannot consent to sex as a minor, you don't have the emotional maturity to forgive when you're a minor. you're just not in that space yet. >> you all are parents and i -- who wouldn't be effected by this

and we have a family here where one of the children abused other children as a parent how do you handle that nightmare scenario in a way that helps all of your kids? lisa. >> you have to remove the perpetrator from the home. because the first job is to protect your children. so you have to protect the victims. and then you are to get him the type of counseling that dr. drew -- >> they said he went away for a while. >> and michelle duggar said it wasn't really counseling he was doing manual labor. it's not cure. we don't live in the 19th century. so he actually needed real counseling that apparently never happened at least not according to the police report. john i'll give you the last word here. >> i think one thing we don't want to leave out of the entire picture. we're looking at the duggars because they're famous but there

are literally hundreds of thousands of children raised under these same teachings and same views of sex and through the website that i've ran, we've heard hundreds of these stories and let's not forget there are many others dealing with the same issues and this needs to be addressed in a very public and final way. this cannot continue to go on. >> and i have to say it's not just the pro. >>m. i had family members religious and not part of this program and they said you don't need a counselor or the law, you need to go talk to your pastor and i laughed in their face. it's not just this program. it's many people who believe god cures everything and heals all. that's not necessarily reality. >> i hope this is a whak wake-up call that they need protect the victims.

>> there were only so many of those girls that were alive when this was supposed to happen. so by deduction you can figure out who they are and their voices are still not being heard. we have no idea if they've had any kind of counseling and we have to be real careful about how we discuss them because they are listening when people talk about their abuse on telesgligzvision. >> thank you. really appreciate. when we come back the duggar family. are more than just reality stars. they have been the darlings of the gop. will that change now? and sometimes i struggle to sleep at night, and stay awake during the day. this is called non-24, a circadian rhythm disorder that affects up to 70 percent of people who are totally blind. talk to your doctor about your symptoms and learn more by calling 844-824-2424. or visit your24info.com.

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so, the duggars reality tv made them stars with conservative republicans. is that all over now? and cnn political commentator and host of the mark lamont hill show. in his own head. so why do you think conservatives love the duggars so much? >> i think they loved him before

hand. because they were this family that was part of the evangelical community, the home schooling community. it's a very important block in the primaries py sprimaries. i was totally shocked by mike huckabee's comment of still standing by them when you had a family that cared more about protecting the brand of this family than they did about the welfare of children who were abused by one of their own and covering it up. so at this point, anyone who stands in their way would be responsible. it sends a message that if you're 35ster you can be a law of your own family if you're sexually abused? >> is that love affair over? >> the luchbove affair withis completely over. as soon as he popped up on the

campaign trail, they indorsed him. everyone else is running away from them as they should. ben is being a bit too hard on them, i think. there should be punishment justice, all of those things but i also understand many families live in denial anot just famous families but regular families. >> here's my thing. i hold them to a higher standard for the fact that they hold them selves to a higher standard. they were the ones talking about incest should be punishable by you being dead. they put themselves in a moral place to be a light to others and yet in reality, in their own world, they were covering it up to keep the brand alive. >> that's what you all do. that's what gops do all the time. >> wait one a at a time.

>> first of all, i never said. >> ben, let him make his point and then you can respond. >> all i'm saying is this is claksz gop play book. you say gay people go to hel -- >> no i don't. >> not you, ben. i said republicans. there's more than one republican in the world, unfortunately. >> and most of them don't say that. >> what i'm saying is many of the same people who shame gay people often times they themselves are gay. many people who talk about people operating outside of their marriage they cheat on their spouses. this isn't an isolated case. >> that happens with democrats as well. >> but you don't see democrats going around saying gay people are going to hel. >> name one prominent gop individual who has said that gay

people are going to hel? i would love for you to give me one legitimate candidate from any office who has said that? it doesn't exist. you're stereo tiepg something that does not in fact exist. the majority of republicans have never said that gay people are going to hill. >> i love the sinner i don't support them i wouldn't go to a marriage. rick san torm just said the same thing. >> did he say that gay people were going to hel though? this is part of this narrative that i'm going to sit here and say it's even remotely close to being true. i can disagree on gay marriage that doesn't mean they're going to hel. >> but you think they're sinners and what they're doing is an a abalmination by god. >> there's a lot of sins mark. >> and say there is a hypocrisy

of saying this is evil. and this is not out of step -- >> i have four or five topics and we got to one. told you all that at the commercial break. >> and he's going to hel for that. >> new flash floods where nine people are still missing after the weekend's deadly storm. well, a mortgage shouldn't be a problem your credit is in pretty good shape. >>pretty good? i know i have a 798 fico score thanks to the tools and help on experian.com. kaboom... well, i just have a few other questions. >>chuck, the only other question you need to ask is, "what else can you do for me?" i'll just take a water... get your credit swagger on. become a member of experian credit tracker and find out your fico score powered by experian. fico scores are used in 90% of credit decisions. ♪ a pitcher who can "paint the corners" is known as a rembrandt.

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breaking news into this program, at least three people reported injured as a tornado slams into an oil rig. a woman says quote, we had people going everywhere and mean while, there are flash floods in oklahoma and texas. one more victim recovered tonight, which brings the death toll to 21 with nine still missing. joining me now cnn severe weather expert chad meyers. chat what can you tell us about these flash flood watches? >> you know don, anytime you get rainfall on the saturated

ground their going to post. we had one around dallas texas, west of fort worth and a few more to the west of all of this. and you get so much rainfall on the ground, the rain has to run off. and here are the storms we're expecting overnight. what i'm most concerned about is oklahoma city. i don't know how much more this sitky take. they've already had upwards of 28 inches of rainfall this month alone. when you were a kid, you made turarium and it steamed up and the plants stayed alive. even though there's humidity on the air and if the sun hits the ground it's going to evaporate even more, so creating more showers and these same storms

would be much lighter in intensity. more makes more where a drought make as drought. >> tell us about these tornados tonight. >> we still have a couple chance chances tonight and had a very large one on the ground in texas. and as it gets dark, the intensity will go down and the spin will go down too, don. >> if we take a broader look that roads and they're melting in india, more than 1400 people have died from a heat wave. there's a severe drought going on. people are talk about climate change. can we say this is climate change? >> that was a big pile of snow that is now melted on down. but can we blame it on climate change? that is a very real possibility and even the flooding in texas p.p. and the people who don't believe it or understand you say, wait

a minute you can't have it both ways. last year you were saying the drought is part of the problem and now you're saying the rain is part of the problem. bout you can. what was drought last year, it would be flooding this year. there's limited evidence that climate change is effecting tornado or hurricane. but coastal flooding, drought, height heat waves, that's all on the docket. >> i saw you this morning on "new day and i'm surprised you're still going. the ever ready bunny of weather. you wouldn't buy a car without taking it for a spin and it's...well...just a car. test-drive our full lineup only at your local john deere dealer. the technology changes the design

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really appreciate you joining us tonight and weighing in on social media on such an

important topic that we'll continue to discuss here on cnn. i'll see you back here tomorrow night. "ac 360" starts here in just a moment. good evening, thanks for joining us. tonight, how crooks are using your identity to steal billions from people who lost their jobs. authorities could stop it but why haven't they? but, tonight the cdc and the pentagon are scrambling to contain a deadly error. they sent live an tlaks to sample labs. this is the kind of thing that is never, ever supposed to happen. the question is how did it happen and how many people have