onder the willinginize to ship the entire bobblehead business overseas. i'm no little expert but my little microeconomist friend seems to be nodding and who am i to argue? >> battle lines drawn in the duggar scandal new statement from the family. >> and this family was kind of hazardous and nobody oknows about it. this is cnn tonight and i'm don lemon. >> it's been an unprecedented

attack on our family. >> on the other side critics of the duggars who say the family just wants to sweep the scandal underthe rug but what about the victims, all but one, his sisters. tonight, i'm going to talk to a woman who was abused as a child and spike lee's new movie sturg up controversy in chicago, actually it's the rheumered title "chiraq" and it has a lot of people up in arms. but i want to begin with the duggar family going on the offensive with the scandal. and a woman who knows all too well the terrible toll of sexual abuse, her name is katy beers, she was abused as a child and she said what saved her was being kidnapped by a neighbor who had her hidden away in a

coffin sized box and abused himer himself until she was rescued. katy sunny and mel, thank you so much. so tonight, fox released more of the interview with meagan kelly. let's listen. >> we tell our kids, you know if somebody lies to you, you're not going to trust them anymore, butted if they lie to you and come back and ask for forgiveness and they're very humble about it that starts rebuilding a trust. and that's what happened with josh. he did some very wrong things and came back and sdprd forgiveness and started building a trust. and a family is humbled by this and instead of losing our faith, we were actually drawn so close together. >> all of you? >> all of us. >> the girls too, with respect to josh?

>> yes, they have forgiven him and gone on and he's now a wonderful husband and father. >> what's your reaction to what they're saying? >> there are a lot of reactions that i have. my first reaction is the victims were outed and that's not fair to them if they weren't ready to come forward, they should have never been outed, the ages the age that josh was when he allegedly abused these girls. it's sadening for all parties involved right now. >> now, i want to play another piece of the interview just released tonight. here it is. >> sometimes there's young people that make mistake and get involved in alcohol and drugs and different things in their youth and then they get treatment and therapy and become very great people. and so i think that's the reason normally in society that

we seal juvenile records. in our case this stuff was exposed because young people made stupid mistakes and society as a whole has not wanted to hold juveniles, what they've done out for the public viewing. >> sonny, it seems they're saying that jaushzosh is the one being persecuted here. >> i mean that's pretty fascinating to me. certainly when juvenile records are sealed they're sealed for a reason and i'm not suggesting that's appropriate. but the real issue is that young girls were victimized in their home and not protected by their parents and what i saw was the grooming process. i saw him start off with certain children. he started while they were sleeping and then to while they were awake, moved from over the

clothing to underneath the clothing. that is the classic predator grooming. so, to suggest at this point that the victims are okay is pretty ingen ws. and i think we have to think about the fact that there are young children in his home right now and that should be the focus. >> and here's what jim bob had to say about how the authorityies dealt with them at the time. >> the authorities said all of this would be confidential, everything a child says. >> did you provide that to your daughters? >> yes. and how it was handled, that nothing had happened since and so then they -- the process is typically they open up a family need of services to kind of

supervise the family for a period of time and then you go before the judge, the judge reviews it all and at the end of all that the people in the system said you know what this was a bad situation back in 2002 2003 when he just turned 14 going on 15 but you guys handled this better than most family. they said we've hardly ever seen a parent go and have their son go and turn himself into the police. >> you've dealt with the system you're an attorney. what do you think about what jim bob is saying? >> well you know out of the entire 30 minute interview, that's probably the only thing i agree with and it's only one section of it don. i think very few families that discover this is happening actually do go to the police. i think it's a reaction by most parents when they discover they've got a member of their

family doing this to try hide it and so i don't doubt he was told that. did they handle it correctly? hell freaking no. i agree with what sunny said 100%. look i was molested by an older kid when i was in fourth grade, don, i pretended to be asleep when it happened. so everything this family is saying is crazy. and what sunny is talking about is absolutely right. this wasn't once twice, this was three times and it got more and more and more serious. so there's just so much to talk about in this particular case don. and while i think that a lot of families don't go to the police i certainly don't think the duggars did anything correct in this instance at all. >> the notion that they handled this better than most families is ridiculous. we now know that josh duggar went to them not once not

twice, but three times. had they removed him from the home had they called police and given him counseling at that point, they would have protected, which is required by law, the other children in the family. we may not be talking about five victims, we may be talking about one. we need to talk about how you appropriately handle child sex abuse allegations and child sex crimes. because to be sure these were crimes committed. >> and i want you to pay particular attention to this. >> reporter: you are goong the record as being two of josh's victims. does it feel strange to use that word? >> you know i don't think we didn't choose to come out and tell our story. this wouldn't have been our

first choice but now that this story has been brought about we really feel like as we've been seeing the head lines and things people are saying about our family we feel like as the victims, we have to come out and speak, this is something like we ochose to do nobody asked us to do this. jes and i were like most of this is lies it's not true. so we want to come out for truth sake. >> it's a whole different story of whether or not information should have been released and we can get into that. but the parents put them on television the parents named them. they didn't have to go on television. josh isn't on television right now. katy. >> exactly. again, i just think it's sad, horrific, it's a crime against the victims to out them before

they're ready and that's what happened to the two duggar girls who came forward and started to tell their side of the story. were they ready to come out publicly? did they ever want to come out publicly? we're never going to know because everybody basically made them their parents, the media, whoever had them come on tv and do the interview, they basically forced their hand and it's not fair it isn't. >> i want to bring in arkansas state senator he believes that police chief that released the josh duggar report should be fired. but first i want to get your reaction to this newly released material. i'm sure you've been hearing it from the daughters. >> i think it's doing a really good job of letting them tell their story. everybody's been running rampant with things not true and not

even close to factual. and i think thav arer been doing a really good jobf of telling their story. >> why should the police chief be in jail? >> the day before the police chief released this information, nobody knew these girls were victims. a day after, they're on the cover of their tabloid. we're charged a as a government and police, to protect the victims, not exploit them. >> and i can understand this brings them back and may revict mise them. but i don't think anybody knew from the report who the victims were. nobody named them in the report. >> well you can't directly or indirectly name victims. it named four daughters living at a particular address. at the time, there were five

daughters, and one an infant. there is no dispute that this report identified the daughters. >> are you lat concerned that there was a young man molesting his sisters and the proper authorities were kept in the dark at least for a while? >> i think no one can decide what you would do if you're not in the situation as the duggars were. they dealt with it in home and he marched his son through the state police and i think that took a lot of curage and i think they handled it as well as any family could. >> attorneys, do you want to weigh in on this? >> that's nonsense that suggesten that they handled this appropriately. you're being intellectually dishonest and the bottom line is

you have parents that were told not once not twice, but three times, senator that their children were being abused. they did not remove him from their home they did not seek counseling, initially, they did not report it to the police until the statute of limitations had already run. so, the suggestion somehow that this family handled a child abuse allegation in their home is -- i'm very disappointed in your response. >> senator, go ahead. >> well again, i'll stand behind the fact that the duggars took their son to the police station. they immediately reprimanded him in the home and immediately took actions to protect their children p children. what we should be talking about right now is these four young ladies that were exploited for profit. >> maybe we should be talk about the fact that josh -- >> we keep talking about josh.

the parents also had a responsibility to those other children in the house. and if this had been a stranger you think they wouldn't have gone to the police, not once what about the third time. they have an obligation they could go to jail by having a known child molester in the house exposed to the victims over and over and over again. one thing public needs to know is if you find out this is happening, you don't send them to church camp you send them to counseling. >> i do have to say it's very difficult and as a parent you must understand that. you can weigh back and forth, debate back and forth about what they should or should not have done but it's a tough position to be in when the victim and perpetrator are in the same family. >> i think it's a real shame that we're even talking about

details about this. a minor did these acts to other minors. the fact that we're even talking about it is unkaungsable. >> it is not -- >> let him finish. >> it's behind closed doors and people in this country are being abused over and over and over again. >> i didn't get your name but your point is a young lady should go tell the police and then her information should be told everywhere. i think the message is if you go to police we're going to tell the meaddia about you. >> the message should be your parents can protect you when you're being sexually abused by your brother in your own home. >> and i think you heard two adult young ladies or you will tomorrow night, say that their parents did protect them. >> they said that they believe that. when we come back jim bob and

michelle duggar had lot to say. and even two of their daughters, you'll hear more from them. is it time for josh duggar to man up if you're taking multiple medications does your mouth often feel dry? a dry mouth can be a side effect of many medications. but it can also lead to tooth decay and bad breath. that's why there's biotene available as an oral rinse toothpaste, spray or gel. biotene can provide soothing relief and it helps keep your mouth healthy too. remember, while your medication is doing you good a dry mouth isn't biotene, for people who suffer from a dry mouth. here at friskies, cats are in charge of approving every new recipe. because it's cats who know best what cats like to eat. up today, new friskies 7. we're trying seven cat-favorite flavors all in one dish. now for the moment of truth. yep, looks like it's time to share what our cats love

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filter just the right amount of light. ask for transitions xtractive lenses. extra protection from light... outdoors indoors and in the car. . jim bob and michelle duggar finally confirmed last night that their son molested five girls more than a decade ago, four of them his siblings.

so is this common among siblings? and political commentator and sunny hostin is back with us. so fox has released more of their interview with the duggars. i want to play it and then we'll talk about it. >> i just remember i said to josh i said when he came back he was broken, he was so humble and over and over he asked for forgiveness to all that he had hurt and i said to him, josh god's word is true. he said that if you cover your sin, you won't prosper. but who so confesses and forsakes it shall have mercy. we said you've had mercy, god's forgiven you, these people have forgiven you and now, we were waiting to hear were they going to come serve a warrant, come take him away we didn't know what they were going to do.

>> and some feel kate that the duggars were hiding behind their religion to justify their response? >> i'm not surprised they're emphasizing that josh is forgiven. as people who believe in a god of grace, that's going to be part of their response. what's disappointing is that's such an emphasis of their response is that we're hearing so much about how he's forgiven and reformed and less about what god would have us do in these situations. he's also one whose heart breaks for thing that happen and who they happen to. so the fact that their anthem is he's reformed and changed and he has this great character now. instead of saying we have this platform now and we're going to talk about all the victims out there that god greaves for

because they've been exposed to this kind of thing in their own families. i see a disconnect of a god of mercy and a god of justice and i think that kind of goes hand in hand for a christian god. >> this whole emphasis on forgiving -- >> you're asking the question is forgiveness helping the victims? >> you don't hear much about -- we hear about josh, god has forgiven josh. >> yeah god has forgiven josh. i think tomorrow night, we're going to hear whether or not they have forgiven their brother. and in this family this is the fabric of how they deal with things through their christianity, right, so t would make sense that they're finding

peace in their spiritual faith. >> that's what they're saying. >> your daughters wrote a book and they talk in their about the importance of forgiveness, even if bitterness remains. does any bitterness remain or do you feel like you've gotten to the point of true forgiveness in your family? >> yeah our family has definitely gotten to the point that there's no bitterness. and forgiveness is not something you feel like doing, it's a choice. when people wrong us you say, god, i choose to forgive this person. and it's important, just like jesus was hanging on a cross, he said father forgive them because they know not what they do. >> okay. he talked about that and the over the clothes, under the clothes, all of that. are they in denial in some sense? >> about what happened? >> yes, because they keep saying

forgiveness, but to me it seems like real disconnect that if something happened and this is just me as a survivor, the first thing i would do is oh my gosh my girls, what happened to my girls, how are you honey, are you okay and then i would deal with the part about the other kid that i'm dealing with. the one that is the actual perpetrator. my first focus would be to talk about the victims. that wasn't the first focus in this interview, they talked about josh first, or mostly. >> and that's the problem is we actually don't know. it seems to me that we don't know what transpired inside the family because it was so hush hush and it doesn't seem like the interview actually brought forth how they handled it exactly when it happened with the girls. >> from the interview, it seems like the focus is on josh and not the girls. >> and we're hearing this didn't really effect them because it

happened while they're sleeping. i can't begin to tell you, how many victims told me i pretended to be asleep when this was happening. >> and nel said the same thing. >> and it only happened over their clothes and then it happened underneath the clothes but only for a second and that is classic grooming by a perpetrator and classic minimizing by the family. >> he doesn't have any criminal exposure. >> i don't know why he's not out there speaking but i do agree with sunny that they're minimizing to a certain degree but i also agree with what you said earlier, which is how many parents are going to turn their kid into the cops and that's a very real thing. >> absolutely. >> i'm not condoeng what they're doing and not in anyway minimizing what has happened to

girls. but what we have to do as a society is decide how much we want to focus on punishment and the victims and their treatment. and that stretches across society. we are punishment society. we want to punish people rather than to give treatment. whatever the problem is. in these particular cases, if there is a person there are two people at home and one is a victim and one offender and the parent now has been put in the position of being a reporter. are you going to report? i think we have to have a conversation of how can we make space and not be as punative as we are now because right now, you can -- if you're 14 or older, you can be added to the sexual offenders list forever, for your entire life at 14 years old and allium ium'm saying about that is if i'm just focus ogon the victims, a lot of therapists

say, number one, it's not necessarily a deterrant to a 14-year-old, because they're not aware of the law and number two, the parent may be less likely -- >> right. the real therapist -- >> -- you have safe haven laws if a woman has a baby we want to protect that baby. we say, bring it somewhere, we'll deal with it. i think we need to find out some way where we can carve out a space and deal with the victims. i want to keep the folk thonss on the girls. ot two cars here. we're going to start watching a movie in the chevy malibu. ♪ (kids laughing) he's flying ok guys, pause the movie we're going to watch the rest in the toyota camry. hit play again ehhh. what happened? you can't watch the movie. ugh... no network connection. who wants to go back in the chevy malibu? me! let's go! peace out!

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back now with more on the duggar scandal and more statements tonight from jim bob and michelle duggar. and nel, we spoke about the statute of limitations the other day and we spoke about that last night. i want you to listen to jim bob and what he said tonight about it. >> we didn't realize but because

that report was made back three years before they said the statute of limitations has run out because it was the police responsibility to take action on the confession and they said because they didn't do that this was taken care of, this was over and you as parents, you've gotten counseling and done everything you need to do as a family. >> i mean why wasn't something done when it first came out and then all of a sudden the statute of limitations has run out and they're likex oh. >> if they truly reported it to an officer friend of theirs and that officer just gave him a stern talking and did nothing, that officer bear as tremendous amount of responsibility and blame because you are mandatory reporter. and that officer should have done more with this.

and i think would have protected more children. >> before i get to katy i want to get back to charles. because you make a good point. but i want to make a caveat of nobody is condoning anything here but when it's in the family and you think your kid is going to get locked up or be on sex offender reggestry there needs to be some space. >> what i'm saying is this. i'm a parent too. i think i'm well -- i'm a smart guy. i don't think i would actually know what to do. i think i would investigate what to do. and you may not agree -- the minimizing is horrible and some of the language they use is horrible but this them trying to figure out what to do that's a thumbs up for that families and one thing i want to --

>> i wouldn't go that far. because they allowed other children to be abused. >> what i'm saying is that was a p positive. my understanding is that a lot of people don't do that at all. the second part i want to make sure that we at least bring up that we don't talk about enough is that the kid is constantly coming to the parents. this is a kid crying out for help and we should be so luck tee have more offenders -- >> stand by because they talk about josh and the legal system. this is new tonight. >> reporter: did josh go in and speak with authorities at that time? >> josh actually went to court with us and the judge talked to him sternly about what he had done and i mean, burned in his

mind never to go down that road again. >> was there a fear then -- >> because this is three years later. >> there was fear on his part that somebody might still charge him. >> we didn't go the statute of limitations had already run out but he had already confess everything. >> and still after watching this interview, i'm still unclear, when he first came to them and said mom, and dad -- or from the way i understand he saw him walking out and they said what's are goong here and he confessed to it and what was the response at that time? >> there wasn't one and that's my problem. >> and we need to encourage this conversation. and the good thing is it's the

conversation to educate people what do you do when a child comes to you and says hey hey, mom and dad, i think i just molested my mom and dad. >> you remove them from the home and then it's therapy, therapy, therapy and possible reporting to the police. >> last night they talked about why they did a high profile reality showe knowing they had this secret in their family. >> we had nothing to hide. we had taken care of all of that years before. and when they asked us to do this reality show all of this had been taken care of five years before and we had a clean bill of health. >> did any of the girls or josh say, hold on mom and dad.? >> it was a sealed juvenile record and they had told us that all of this stuff was done as a juvenile this was all stuff sealed and this is stuff that

under law, there's no way that this could ever be brought out. >> but they did have something to hide. it sounds like they never thought anyone would find out or know. >> and it seems like it's more of an emphasis is once something has been completed and forgiven we're free from that. a lot of times christians use the word freedom and are not burdened from things in the past but we know that these things linger and i believe part of their faith was we've moved on we've reconciled for this and we've made a forgiveness effort and now we get to live our lives that gk you had an important point about what a therapist? >> so if they had removed him from the home right away and they took him to therapist, a

therapist is a man dated reported across america. and the system is there to protect the entire family, right, the victims, the perpetrator and the family. so if you're discharging the child to the therapist, it's up to the therapist to do what they need to do under the law and that might unburden the parent. >> i always say the advice is to remove the child from the home and then get therapy. my next question is what kind of therapist did they take josh duggar to that did not report this to the authorauthorityiesauthorities? >> i think the point is they didn't. >> we're going to have to continue this conversation because it is indeed important. there are a lot of survivors sitting at the table and last

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. people in chicago taking sides over director spike lee's new movie which looks at the city's deadly gun violence but what has people up in arms is the working title, it's "chiraq". >> buzz is usually a good thing when it comes to a new movie. it's the title a combination of chicago and iraq that has created a fire storm and the mayor making his feelings clear to the film maker himself. >> i told him i wasn't happy about the title and i also told him there are very good people in ingle wood raising their family and there are a lot of

positive things happening. >> and you can ready see signs of a film production. but there are people calling for a hollywood edit. >> the name itself is deeply troubling to people who live in these communities. they don't view it as chiraq and they're very proud of where they live. >> reporter: he feels the movie's title, not yet confirmed, by the way, compared the streets to a war zone. burns believes the movie's title will have such a negative impact he wants tax credits normally given to a film production pulled. >> you have to create living wage jobs and hope and that means you have to get folks to invest for the communities. and so would you want to risk your capital, take out debt to build something in a

neighborhood called chiraq? i don't know. >> reporter: the murder rate on a startling pace 161 people killed so far this year. 1 reason why spike lee and star john kuzak, a chicago native. >> a lot of people have opinions about the so-called title of the film. again, you don't know-nothing about the film. >> and it's vitally important that we try protect the next generation of kids, give them hope so they can be productive in society. >> reporter: and an entire city waiting to see if the title gets in the way of that message. >> very interesting. thank you, ryan.

and illinois state senator jackline collins and i appreciate both of you joining me. i lived in chicago for a while, so the city has place in my heart. it hurts me to see what's going on there. senator, collins, you support this movie, why? >> i sou port it and "chiraq" is an accurate and approp reriate title and it shows fear and pain and lack of investment in a community that individuals have to confront on a daily base. there's a lot of hipurbally concerning the title and it should not be about the sumantics but about the statistics. and just in the months of may alone, we had 300 shootings. and from january first to may

30th we saw 853 shootings and of that count, that was 161 deaths and 151 days. so i think the title is appropriate. >> unbelievable. and the numbers speak for themselves. that's the reality of it. why are you so upset by this? >> well look there are certainly areas in our neighborhoods where there's certainly an issue with gun violence and i've work would folks to fight that and going summer programs that help young people from committing violence but here's the deal we have to work on a long-term solution for this problem, which means we need to create living wage jobs and investments in the community, which means we're out, trying to market and we organize tours, go to conventions -- >> i understand that and you

think people don't know? you think potential investors won't know and won't do their research and a name of a movie will make that much of a difference? shouldn't your focus be on doing those things you're talking about rather than being upset about the name of a movie? >> well don, you lived in chicago, so you know there's a stigma attached to the north side of chicago and if you talk to any of my colleagues who represent those communities, we face an uphill climb in terms of bringing those kinds of developments to our community. and what the title does is create another head wind. >> you said it's just piling on. are you concerned about anything he's saying here? the points he's making? >> no and this is why i represent inglewood and i have

lived there for forty years and there has been no investment for the last forty years, so what is the appropriate reply to that? what can we attribute that to arer? spike lee only ariechbrived four months ago and after the white flight in the '60s and 70s rr we haven't seen any. >> i would argue that we're beginning to move the needle. >> we're out of time. hate to cut you off but we're out of time here. violent crimes on the rise not only in chicago but other major cities. what are the reez snnz

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when kevin jorgeson needs light, he trusts only duracell quantum because it lasts longer in 99% of devices. very important discussion. violent crimes on the rise in american cities. but what is behind this? the former new york city police commissioner and now the ceo o. in some of america's biggest

cities gun violence baltimore, what is it like 40% or something that homicide -- 60% that the homicide rate is up. what issing going on? >> we have people emboldened. and i said that 8 to 10 months ago, you diminished the things that were effective, you shoot people people die and that's what is happening. >> 60% rise in gun violence. pastor brooks, you're living and preaching in troubled neighborhood in chicago and you heard the folks from chicago were just saying. what do you think the rise is from? >> we have poor educational system we have a terrible infra infrastructure and all being ran by the same people doing the

same old thing, arguing over titles of movies when we should be focussed on making it better places. and we're facing that not just in the sitcity of chicago but in cities all over america. >> you say, that political leaders, particularly democrats are failing. how? >> we're living in a place where we have been very very loyal to the democratic party but the party has not been loyal to us. all you have to do is look across america and look at the years of things being the way that they are. it's been the same old thing, all the time in the cities across america. you have bad schools, high crime, lots of drugs and it just so happens that these innercity areas are all ran by democrats

and i think that's a problem when we continue to put all of our eggs in one basket. >> i want to go back to new york. and when crime goes up you know where the talk turns to and that is stop and frisk and you say this is all happening because of stop and frisk? >> it's a part of it. and all you have to do is look at history. 2400 homicides, 2400 in 1990. last year just over 300. 83% reduction, mostly in the minority neighborhoods, now we've taken away stop and frisk, emboldened the guys in the street. >> so you're saying stop and frisk isn't there. >> let's say it's been diminished substanshally and the cops are scared to death to go out there and do what they need to do. i don't want some bad guy living

in my home. >> i watch the news every night and i see, i can feel it and see the gun shots now. that didn't happen six months ago. >> we're going back to the '90s and '80s. >> thank you so much everyone. we're going to take a short break e 88th southern parallel. we had traveled for over 850 miles. my men driven nearly mad from starvation and frostbite. today we make history. >>bienvenidos! welcome to the south pole! if you're dora the explorer, you explore. it's what you do. >>what took you so long? if you want to save fifteen percent or more on car insurance you switch to geico. it's what you do. >>you did it, yay!

. good evening, thanks for joining us. a very full night, beginning with suspect in and hackers. and these 4 million men and women are either current or former federal employees. tonight, we've also learned that the prime suspect is not some individual in a basement or crime sindicate super power, the