. good evening, thanks for joining us. a very full night, beginning with suspect in and hackers. and these 4 million men and women are either current or former federal employees. tonight, we've also learned that the prime suspect is not some individual in a basement or crime sindicate super power, the

people's republic of china. what new information are you learning? >> well anderson i'm told that this breach is much, much bigger than what the government has told us today. we're told that virtually every government agency has been breached by these hackers and there were two distinct attacks that occurred. and we're only beginning to learn that this may effect more people than the 4 million that they announced today. again, this is a much bigger deal than the government first let on. >> every agency. >> virtually every agency was breached by this attack and it was sophisticated enough that they used different signatures to throw off anybody who may have been looking. >> and how long was this going on for? >> they were in the system for months anderson and that's really raising a major concern here. the department of homeland security made a key in saying

that their einstine system detected. but it was first detected by purse and then they discovered it was more prodbroadly. they clearly aren't doing the di diing a nostic testing. it makes it not that smart and certainly not any smarter than best buy, if it can't detect hackers changing their signatures. >> and that's why they weren't able to catchon catch on to it for months was because of them

changing the signatures? >> yes and they need to pup date. >> and sean henry who over saw computer crimes investigations for the fbi. and he currently runs the cloud strike services. why would the chinese be interested in this information? >> i heard reports it's china. i think it's a little too ulearly to tell, but it's not unusual for them to look and detect information on government employees. often times they'll get dos yeas and then target them. and it's having a giant data base they may be able to tap into all the time. >> that's a huge ream of information to have. >> you're talking about government employees that work throughout all dirant agencies

the department of commerce perhaps the white house. and if in fact it's an intelligence service, someone who they would look to target. >> it's potential weak points that they could try to make the most of? >> that's right. if somebody wants to come after anderson cooper everything i can learn about you is of value, so when i'm going to make an approach maybe i know what college you went to, maybe friends that you associate with that will help when i approp you. >> and we have heard attacks from iran north korea, russia as well. is it that the u.s. system is not all that advanced or it's just the nature oof the beast and the world that we live in? >> it's the networks. they're so vast and really

gegraphically disperse and the reality is you can't prevent the attacks. but you need to detect them. if you can detect them fast enough you can mitigate. and they have the opportunity to scarf up all sorts of data. >> that's incredible that they can remain in a system for months or years without being detected. >> it's an incredible challenge. if they have to the right policies in place, they are in a much stronger position to detect them quickly. preventing them from getting indiana andin and of itself is not suitable. because there are ones with hundreds of thousands of end points and all of themmen e enmen enmen an in gresz into the system.

i think from a national security perspective, there's very well known what organizations or intelligence services are doing against each other. what we're looking at often time sz commercial espionage where foreign governments are taking data out of u.s. companies and provideing it to their companies so they have a competitive advantage. and breaking news tonight. in this case cyber recruitment by terror groups namely the alleged plot to kill boston police officers. and they killed one of thuthe alleged conspirators. and tonight, reports may have found one. >> reporter: tonight, cnn is learning isis played a more direct role in the boston terror attack than previously thought. they say at least one of the men

to behead activist pamela geller was being encouraged by known isis terrorists who were communicating from overseas. boston police commissioner says one of the men usaama was put under surveillance in the past 10 days. what made you go from this can guy could be aspirational to confrontational? >> the language we were picking up was let's are get a boy in blue and when it looks like it was getting confrontational, we went into action. >> reporter: and they called his father the call over hed heard by investigators, who had been monitoring his email and phone activity during the 24-hour surveillance. they were worried he was going to board a bus with knives he ordered from amazon just last week and that's why they

confronted him in front of the cvs pharmacy in boston. >> we knew the urgency was there that we had to get to him. >> reporter: rahim was heard on tap after abandoning reports to go to geller. and they met on a abandoned beach with david wright a relative. he appeared in court wednesday and today, law enforcement was still outside of a home of a third person. they questioned that person already but have not said who it is. >> reporter: you have him saying on the wire tooeptaps allegedly, that he wanted to go after the boys in blue. why wasn't he arrested before this? >> the urgency came to light on wednesday morning, the knives

and whole talk of a vacation which is code for a violent jihad. >> reporter: other families members are denying any connection to isis. >> that comes to a surprise to the family. they had not seen any change in behavior it that is consistent with those reports. >> reporter: we know that right now, the fbi is combing through the men's electronics, trying to figure out the extent of isis's involvement and how much it was involve would the planning and perhaps attack. what we've learned from talking to u.s. officials is that this is more than assprational here this is more than these men looking at isis propaganda at least one was in contact with knownize terrorists

communicating online from overseas. and that's what is most troubling to officials. isis was encouraging at least one of the men. it's unclear if he was encouraging a specific attack like what we learned in the complaint, the beheading of pamela geller in new york or if it was more general. but from talking to u.s. officials, they believe that these men were acting on behalf of isis. as one official said thisnormal. this is what we're facing now. >> coming up next three mysterious shootings in the same part of colorado. people riding their bike walking, shot for no parent reason. we got late word from authorities on that. and also tonight, all those looters caught on camera inside

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there's breaking news tonight out of colorado where two unexplained shootings have

shot three seemingly random victims s victims. and one question, are they the result of a serial shooting. >> reporter: another deadly shooting shocking northern colorado. >> it makes you stop and think. it's scary. >> reporter: fear spreading about a possible cerealserial shooter and possible serial sniper. >> channel your fear into being productive. help us look keep your eyes open. >> reporter: the latest victim found late wednesday night lying on a sidewalk bleeding. authorities aren't talking about the circumstances but say he was shot in the chest and now they're looking into whether his death was linked to two other shootings in the same region. >> i'm mad that there's somebody running around that just took

somebody's life and thinks they're going to get away with. >> reporter: he was shot and killed and a few miles away a woman was shot while driving on interstate-25. >> a car pulled up next to me and i thought they hit my car with their car but my window shattered, i noticed i was bleeding and the paramedics and blees police got there and that's when they noticed the bullet holes. >> reporter: they thought they were random but now believe they are connected. >> we found evidence that links these cases together. >> reporter: an award already being offered and a new death bringing urgency to find out, who's pulling the trigger. >> so what are police saying about this possibly being some

sort of a sireserial sniper? >> they're not going that far but we've learned that there have been about two dozen reports of people saying their car windows have shattered while driving and we talked to the state patrol about this because that's the agency compiling all the reports. and i'm told there doesn't seem to be a trend, per se at this time and they're coming from different locations and it could just be road debris but it definitely reacts the hoyteightened alert people are feeling after those recent shootings in colorado. and now in the wake of looting and violence in baltimore and some believe police have shied away from enforcing the law ever since. looters surrounded by bags of prescription drugs caught on camera.

authorities now seeking these individuals and others who broke through area pharmacies and were picked up by numerous security cameras and stealing enough drugs, say the chief, to keep the city supplied in drugs for a year. now from miguel marquez who spoke with the looting victim. >> reporter: tonight, dramatic video moments after the royioting and looting and pharmacies like this one. this man who works here didn't want his face or name used. he says the assault on his pharmacy started before sunset. people still picking up prescriptions, looters rush in trying to smash security glass with a chair and then come back and this time entering through

the rear and getting everything and anything. >> reporter: how long did it take for them to come here after your store was looted? >> it took them more than a month. >> reporter: you have videotape of everybody who was in the store that night robbing the place. has police viewed that? >> no. >> reporter: despite the emfusis police are now putting on this -- >> they are stealing stolen drugs and turf wars are happening. >> what did you make of his press conference? >> to me it's a joke. >> reporter: he said if police were truly worried about the theft of pharmacy drugs, they should have responded sooner. one took a safe and one looter left his cell phone behind and

it was still ringing the next day. >> that phone was buzzing. and the family called me to tell me people were calling the phone. >> reporter: this is the safe where some of the more controlled substances and you can see how they tried to hack into it. they were not able to get into this safe no matter how hard they tried. this seis video of the looters trying to get it and unable to take it they left the behind. and also left behind here a sense of security for everyone not just pharmacies but restaurants struggle to keep their doors open. the lack of security doesn't make it any easier. >> i'm not sure if i see any increase of police presence. i've actually seen more of an increase of violence. >> and have police given any kind of reason why they haven't

aggressively investigated these cases? because the commissioner has been making a big deal of it. >> to come out and not have a good answer. we have asked repeatedly if they have any response to the specific claims these pharmacy owners make they haven't. they only say they've investigating across the board and involving the feds. and they also say they'll event catch the bad guys. and up next rick perry throws his name into the presidential race. and does that help or hurt the gop in its bid to win the white house. and also tonight. michelle and jim bob duggar breaking their silence. and they're also hitting back saying they're the vingtctims in

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today, former texas governor rick perry announced his second

run for a white house, outside an airport hanger in dallas. and joining him, including s.e.a.l. lutrel is a texas native author of the book "loan survivor" and no you're not seeing double that's his brother. also standing beside the governor. and the pool is about to get even more crowded. dannau bash reports. >> today i'm running for the presidency of the united states of america. >> reporter: and then there were ten. rick perry, today's intrnt is running on experience as the longest serving governor in texas history, trying to make voters forget about his embarrassing run last time around. and two actually won past iowa caucuses. senator rick san torm and former

arkansas governor mike huckabee. four want to be president, ted cruz of texas. >> imagine millions of conservatives rising up together to say in unison we demand our liberty. >> reporter: rand paul of kentucky. >> we need boldly proclaim our vision of america. we need to boldly go forth in the banner of liberty that clutches the constitution in one hand and the bill of rights in the other hand. >> and marco rubio. >> yesterday is over. [ applause ] and we're never going back. >> reporter: and three time south carolina senator lindsey

graham is running on his creds. >> i have more responsibility than any other candidate and that includes you, hillary. >> we will defend our freedom but we will not be the world's policeman. >> reporter: two contenders have never held political officer u office. >> i'm probably never going to be politically correct because i'm not a politician. >> and former hewlitt packered. >> unlike mrs. clinton, i know flying is an activity, nots an accomplishment accomplishment. >> reporter: and there are more to come. wisconsin governor scott walker new jersey governor crist christie and ohio governor are preparing presidential runs. assumeing all of them jump in

this will be the largest gop presidential field in two decades. >> jake just about every republican politician wants to run right now. what does that say about the party? >> it says they're a fairly deep bench. there are a lot of high profile governors and senators that want to run and on the democratic side, you don't see that deep bench. and we have just had 8 years of the democratic president and we are probably if you look at historical trends going to have a republican president. and vice president biden hasn't said he will run and obviously,

president obama can't run. >> and there are a lot of very viable candidates on the republican side it's not like 2012. >> 20 twervlsh12 they called it the clown car but at this point, the republican bench looks very deep and very serious. you have two people who have run before for the presidency, you have a group of incomant senators and former senators and people actually talking about ideas. because as jake points out this is what happens to a party when they don't have the white house for eight years, they start getting a deep bench and thinking about what they would do if they got back and that's what happened in the republican party. >> a lot of people will say for these candidates you get better

candidate if you have competition. at this point, hillary clinton doesn't really seem to have competition and that might not be good for her. >> i agree with that assessment. if you look at the 2008 race, obama, versus clinton, they made themselves stronger tougher candidates. and i don't know if obama would have been as strong if he hadn't had hillary fight him every step of the way. >> is it about staying relevant and being able to get on the lecture circuit later on? >> it's sort of -- yes, and you look around and say, why not me. a lot of these folks who are getting in. for example we had george katake getting in the race and they look around and say, why not me. don't forget you have two

candidates tied for first place with a huge number of 2% each. you can say, well i'm in single digits of the person in first place. they think hillary clinton is beatable. this is good for them good for their resume. why not get in and live off of free media and have good road trips. >> and for that you would have to stay in at least to the first primaries. >> i think that's right. until there's a reason for your leaving. of course, that's certainly not what happened to tim polente. it looks like a lot of the top tier candidates are going to participate in a straw pole this year. and senator mccain said he said you spend the first six months saying how on earth did i get

here and then your rest of your time saying how did these other guys get here. >> thank you both. >> thanks. >> all right. just ahead. michelle and jim bob duggar speak out about their son's molesting their daughters. and how they meet the world's newest energy superpower. surprised? in fact, america is now the world's number one natural gas producer... and we could soon become number one

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came to us on his own and he was crying and he had just turned 14 and he said that he had actually improperly touched some of our daughters. and it was -- >> we were shocked. i mean, we were just devastated. i don't think any parent is prepared for a trauma like that and i think we had one ray of hope in that josh had a tender conscience and he was the one that came and shared on his own, even though the others really didn't know anything of his wrong doing. >> reporter: did he explain why? >> he said he was just curious about girls and he gone in and basically touched them over their clothes while they were sleeping and they didn't even know he had done it. this was not rape or anything like that. this was touching somebody over their clothes. there were a couple of incidents where he touched them under the

clothes but it was a few seconds and then he came to us and was crying and told us what happened and it was after that third time he came to us is where we really felt like you know what we have done everything we can as parents to handle this in house, we need to get help. >> and they also said the media attention is part of an agenda an unprecedented attack on the family and they wonder why the press isn't going after those releasing juvenile records. and joining me along with senior legal analyst and dr. drew. dr. drew i mean there are so many things to talk about in that sound bite alone. what did you make of this interview? because they seem to make themselves the victims in all of this. this whole thing of it was just

above the clothes but when it was under the clothes, but it was just a couple seconds. i don't know how they can know and it just seemed like one thing after another. am i wrong? >> from the beginning, they've been dealing with this and minimizing rationalizing and making it a parental issue, rather than a mental health issue. and then they went to the system that they've been locked into where an solute perfection is demanded all the time and of course humans aren't perfect beings and they did not actually go get an evaluation for this child or his victims at any time. >> and they keep saying the daughters didn't even know it happened. they were asleep they didn't even feel it. i was stunned they said this.

>> well, they didn't know that. and we often talk about domestic violence as if it's something that families can manage and it's up to the families to resolve it. but child abuse and domestic violence is a crime against the state as well as the victims and the state has an interest in protecting children. and when you don't report to the authorities something like this you are putting more children at risk and by the way, there's another family involved here. one of these children was from a different family. >> sleeping on the couch. >> i mean, do they get a voice in this? this is why we bring outsiders involved when possible to make some sort of neutral judgment about how to protect victims. and one thing that is sinister and that is how much were they protecting josh and their children and how much were they

protect their tv careers? >> they have a financial stake in having a tv show. they still want a tv show even after all of this. >> presumably they did this fox interview as a way of saving face. i would say by the massive out rage by the statements they gave and the exasperation they actually hurt their tv career. >> they've been victimized more of what's happened in these last couple weeks than they were 12 years ago, because honestly they didn't even understand or know anything that had happened until after the fact when they were told about it. >> it's true when a five-year-old is being fondled by 14-year-old, she may not know wlauts rr goingwhat's going on but to

say what's happening now is worse? i mean -- >> it show as total ignorance of the molestation and the ramifications on that on a person's life t show as complete lack of intelligence and the fact that tlar victhey're victimizing themselves shows how they're trying to maintain their platd form and expand on their values and again, an insensitivity to the victims which are their daughters. >> they never used the word molestation. they said it's not rape. it's improper touching. i mean, if you can't even properly name it are you acknowledging it? i mean she said the girls didn't even know what was going on. >> i feel deeper compassion than

you have. this is a sick situation. the sinister is not the television but the organization who supports the home school organization and the group that evaluated them and told them to keep out any outside services and to keep managing these kids because they're perfect, they're perfect, they're perfect. >> i don't believe this family would give other families the benefit of the doubt. i don't believe this family, these parents would point to a disadvantaged family from a poor community, you know that 14-year-old boy who put his sisters inside his sister or multiple times, that was just a bad choice and that person shouldn't be in the legal system. >> and that's crazy talk all the way around. >> appreciate you being here. there is a lot more to talk about ahead, including how religion plays into this and if

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and fox's news meagan kelly asked what their reaction was when they found out the secret was out? >> this isn't something we wanted to come outd but if people can see that josh who did these very bad things as a young person that god can forgive him for these terrible things then i hope other people realize god can forgive them and make them a new creature. >> the main charge we've heard from your critics is you're hypocrites you preached family values. josh once said we are the epitome of conservative values and yet, they had this secret and they weren't honest to the world. >> i don't think you go up to strangers and say my name is so and so and say everything you did in your past. you know every family has

things happen in families and some may be darker than others. but everybody deals with something. >> wut what the critics are going for is you shouldn't have been preaching about moral values when you had a secret like this and you shouldn't call other people sinners when you yourself was sinners. >> that was terrible. but yet, i think it's been recently said that what josh did was inexcusable but it was not unforgivable. >> with me again, are cnn legal analyst and dr. drew and joining us also is bruce, who writes extensively about both religious and family issues. he's author of books, "walking the bible" and there are certainly people out there who

believe the duggars are using religion as a shield and others who say they're being attacked for their religious believes. >> and then secondly they're being persecuted because they are religious. i do think it's safe to say that many secular people feel tear rr under assault or siege but i think within the religious community, there is a -- >> and dr. drew meagan kelly asked the duggars if they felt he was a threat after the so-called counseling he went to which seemed to be construction work and they said not at all, that they quote moved on with life. what do you make of this? because if this is a deeply felt thing and y we don't know what got him to do this over and over

again to a 5-year-old and to sisters and to a friend on the couch. but this isn't something that goes away this deep seated urge? >> it is total massive denial. there still has yet to be a seeing if they are -- and this is ridiculous. >> i want to play another clip. just listen. >> he went and asked god to forgive him and he asked those he had offended to forgive him and we felt the last jurisdiction of who he needed to make things right with was the law. >> is that the last jurisdiction? >> i don't know what he meant by that but one of the great things about this country issia can believe whatever you want to believe about religion or anything but you you have to

fall thoughollow the law. and the courts always step in with children and say, we don't care what you believe. the duggars can believe anything they want but there are laws in this country about child abuse that they have to follow like everyone else does. >> bruce, what role if any, do you think the message that duggars preach should have in all of this? clearly there are a lot of people who view them as hypocritical. i think that's a slippery slope in some ways. do you think that should play a role the fact that michelle duggar made these robo calls, calling other people potential child molesters or do you think that should be separate? >> i wrote it down how can you say to your neighbor let me take a speck out of your eye while the log is in your own eye. you are a hypocrite. these are the words of a new

testament. this is a central text in christianity saying don't be telling your neighbors what to do when you have a problem in your community. this is a log in the eye by any definition of a log in the eye by saying we feel this way and it's on the verge of revlting. >> an interview with two of josh's sisters who say they were among the victims and i want to play a clip from that interview where they address how their experience became public p. >> people don't have a right to do this. they can't do this to us. >> and yet they did? >> they did. >> the system that was set up to protect kids both those who make stupid mistakes or have problems like this in their life and the ones that are effected by those choices, it's greatly failed. >> i mean the police report did

not -- their names were redaktedredakted and nobody in the mainstream media had reported who they were and it's interest because they're saying they're victims and their mom doesn't seem to label them as such. their mom simeeems to discount it was above the clothes, except the times when it wasn't. >> they may have been indoctrinated into taking this position base thond mom's denial but a very common situation is when they're exposed to the perpetrator over a long period of time they identify with them. and that's clearly what's happening here. how much it's effecting them i don't know. but it's serious concern here. >> i appreciate you being on. thank you. more ahead.

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that does it for us. mike roe's somebody's gotta do it starts now. >> i'm mike rowe. and i'm on a mission to find people on a mission. >> on a scale of 1 to 10 how many how much do you like what you do? >> 25. >> there you go. >> what are we doing? freaking out. how are they doing it? and why? >> i love to make things that make people smile. >> this is very fricking exciting. >> come on mike, we've gotta get it. >> oh!