afterwards should we think about them and where they might be now? looking in the wrong place for two escaped killers. this is "cfnn tonight," i'm don lemon. the governor of vermont says there's reason to believe that richard matt and david sweat may be there. matter of fact the governor joins me on the phone right now. thank you so much for joining us. as we talked tonight, you believe these two killers are in your state? >> we just have no idea.

what we do know don, is the only indication they have given to credible sources prior to their escape is that they thought it would be wise to hit for a remote camp in vermont because they thought there would be less heat from law enforcement in vath vathermont than there is in new york. governor quomo and i want to get him back and locked up where they belong. >> governor, you mentioned a remote camp. talk to me more about that. what do you mean about that? >> we're not talking about a specific location. but it's clear to us based upon conversations, that based on information that we have that we can't divulge at this point, that their vision was to head to

vermont to chill out for a bit while things calm down. so if there's no specific location, we have no idea where they are. but, obviously, we're taking that information seriously. >> okay. and you said empveryone is cooperating there. how, exactly, are police in vermont helping in this situation? >> we have the vermont state police and the new york state police in their controls. we obviously now have hundreds of vermont folksworking together with new york folks. we've given the authority for new york state police and law enforcement to come into vermont, vice versa.

at are you telling them? >> well we're saying to use good, common sense. obviously, there's reason for concern. but there's a couple things that we need to remember. first of all, obviously, lock your doors. if you see these guys do not get near them. call law enforcement. let law enforcement do the dirty work. when you think about these situations you know obviously concerning to all all of us most often, you find folks like this not because law enforcement happens to be in the right place at the right time although it usually workings hoos like that. law enforcement on both states are working really hard. but it most often happens because vermonters or new yorkers see something unusual and they report it. so you walk passed a stolen boat on the beach or a stranded bolt and say hey maybe that's how they got across.

le there in the cabins could they be in real danger governor? >> there's no question when you have killers like this on the loose who are supposed to be locked up and escaped, anyone who has contact with them are in danger. i don't want to minimize the fear here. we're all extraordinarily concerned. that's why governor cuomo and i have our law enforcement communications and every resource that we can put on this man hunt. these guys are bad news. but, at the same time you know we've got to all remain level headed. use common sense and work together to get these guys back into prison. >> i'm wondering about your outreach. i'm sure not everyone watches a

fell vision or pays attention to the news or radio. they may be watching something educational or reading something else. what do you do about the level of awareness? >> well you've got to remember that my call came from governor cuomo late this morning. he and i just got this information recently about the vermont connection. but we are now not only deploying all of our resourgss, talking to chris, trying to educate everybody to the need to apprehend these guys. but we're also doing common sense things. i've got state police to remote campgrounds, going to state parks, letting folks know what these guys look like. trying to ask for their help and obviously doing heightened law enforcement efforts. we're doing car stops, we're doing all the thing that is logically would be done when we're looking for a couple of guys that would be desperate. >> i want to put that number back up, governor, as we thank you here.

that's just so people who are aware. that's 1-800-448-3847. >> we'll continue to put that number up throughout the evening here on cnn. thank you for your time, sir. >> thanks, dom. appreciate it. >> let's go to jason carroll now live for us. and randy kaye on the vermont border at lake sham plain. you heard the governor, law enforcement on high alert. they're searching a massive area now and it is expanding. what can you tell us? >> it is certainly expanding here to vermont, don. and that is because they think that they might be here. there hant beensn't been any official sighting yet. but we every day, had to go through check points along the road going back and forth to that prison. here we took a ferry to get here to vermont and lake

champlain. we didn't have to go through any check points to get here to our live location. i know authorities are saying that they're working to secure the border we just haven't seen any evidence of that yet. i can tell you, from the air today, they are certainly looking for these guys. we saw it firsthand. from the air, what authorities are up against is clear. so many places for the escapees to hide. >> what would you be looking for from a search from the air? >> if there's particular intelligence. sometimes we'll land and take a look. other times, we'll use the camera. we see guys hiding behind rocks or buildings or under shelters, if you will. >> and if you got an alert right now that the two escapees have been spotted, what would be our plan of action?

>> we would proceed ahead and wait for instructions. >> even with more than 500 leads, pinning them down is no easy task. >> you can see why it's such a challenge to find these guys. looking down on the addirondacks, there's six million acres of woods. >> we're just to the north of the prison. >> reporter: we could also see clinton correctional facility where the men escaped from. >> so you can see, it's not far from a heavily wooded area. it wouldn't take a lot to disappear into the woods, right? >> that's correct. they could have gone to the north or they could have gone to the south or to the southwest and the mountain ranges out there. pretty easy to get lost out there. >> yeah, and they can certainly

get lost up here in the state of vth vthd. 75% of this state is covered with forestland. so plenty of hiding places. but here's the problem, don, is they think these guys are here in the state of vermont. but they don't know where and they certainly don't know how long it's going to take to find them. >> great reporting, randi. i want to get to jason here. jason, no sign of these killers yet. is the path going cold there? >> well you know i don't know if you can say it's gone cold. it's ees's definitely going to be a challenge. if you listened to the report there, you know that this is a vast area surrounding this prison here. a rural area surrounding the prison, as well. that's why law enforcement wanted to double up on their efforts just to make sure that these two fugitives were not in this immediate area. that's why we saw the retracing their steps today. officers coming down this very street across the street from the prison knocking on doors, checking buildings just to make sure that they did everything in the immediate area, don, that

they needed to do. once again, the governor says he's asking the pub lick to be individual lentvigilant vigilant to look out for anything sus pirks. at the end of the day, they believe they're going to find these inmates, but it's going to be a challenge. >> joyce mitchell allegedly the woman to pick them um, drive the get away car, what have you. you spoke to some family members today. what did they tell jowl? >> spoke to her daughter-in-law. she said 95% of what she is hearing out there in the media, she says is not true. this is page mitchell joyce mitchell's daughter-in-law. talk to her about that. that alleged allegation that her mother-in-law was going to provide the get away for these two men and chachknged her mind at the last minute. she's called that absolutely ridiculous. she also said that her mother-in-law, knowing who she

is, would never knowingly help these violent men. >> jason carroll, thank you. i appreciate your reporting this evening. i want to bring in the supersben dent of schools for the north earn district which is right in the search zone. good evening, laura. >> reporter: good evening. >> police are searching house-to-house for these murderers. what are you seeing? >> well i'm seeing that schools are being extra diligent and really trying to make sure that their campuses are safe. and are taking extra precautions even though safety measures are every day in place. students are not being allowed to go out on recess. field trips are being re-evaluated. if there's any type of out door

activities such as hikes, we're asking that students wait inside and wait for the busses. >> so you know watching this, there is extra diligence. >> yeah, i can see that. people all over the country are concerned. you used to work in the prison teaching english. what's it like inside the prison? >> yes, i worked seven years as a teacher in the night program for spanish-speaking inmates. and then i also worked in the annex, the lesser security prison in the summer. >> i've got to tell you don, the security inside behind the wall is very tight: i aumgs felt that the c.o.s were doing their job. i am shocked that anyone can possibly escape from the prison.

>> were you ever afraid? >> pardon me? >> were you ever afraid working there? >> i was never afraid. the security is so tight. there's so many check points to go in. there are so many guards on duty as well as in the towers behind me. >> you said you knew someone who fell in love with an inmate. what happened? >> what happens inside the prison it fends to be a different climate. especially for women in the prison. women in the prison if they're vulnerable when they go in there, the inmates can often try to take advantage of that. that is why you are given very clear instructions&training prior to going into the prison. the inmates are very

manipulative. they're very comp limts ri. they're very -- they try and win you over. i saw that happen myself. >> did anyone ever try that with you? >> certainly. we were all very vulnerable. and, however, i was very much on guard to that. i realize that if you fall into the prey of an inmate, you can be owned. by that you can feel like you have to continually do favors. and the ante is upped and upped and upped. so you certainly don't ever want to become friends with an inmate. you don't want to trust an inmate.

unfortunately, especially with women, i think that they're taken advantage of. >> do you think that's what happened to joyce mitchell? >> very possible. very possible. i've seen it happen before firsthand. and i think that that could be very possible. people get themselves into situations that they have a very hard time getting out of. >> your perspective is really invaluable. best of luck and stay safe. >> thank you, don. >> we've got much more on breaking news tonight. the growing man hunt for two state killers. coming up next a man who knows about tracking state fugitives, dog the bounty hunt her.

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breaking news tonight is the man hunt for two convicted murderers who escape into neighboring vermont. that's a new develop 789 tonight. dog, the bounty hunter is on "dog and beth." >> the hunt started 35 miles south to willsboro, now vermont.

do police have any idea where you think these guys are? >> well, you know, they've got to search. you remember when the boston bombers, they found the one bomber kid hiding in the boat because they found it with lights. let's pretend like you and i are the fugitives out there. number one, we both know we wouldn't do anything during the daylight. we would bunker under something metal so the heat seeker couldn't see us. then,number two, we'd move around only at night. we would need a gun and some food. we'd have to find a shelter, an empty cabin. the main thing about this i was wondering, you know how he left a sticky note on the manhole, do they give them out in prison? did he take a writing pen all the way to the point of escaping and then stop and make a note

or did someone have that? that really bothered me. >> why is that? >> did someone pick them up? if someone picked them up, this is a waste of taxpayer money, they're gone. if someone didn't pick them up then they're on the right track. they're in this area. i read that she's now admitted that she was supposed to pick them up. >> our report was that she was supposed to pick them up and did not. she got cold feet and didn't do it. so that changed their whole game plan. but if she, you know if that was never the plan then that also changes everything, as well.

en in women's prison. so let's stop all of that and we won't have this ever again. but if she was supposed to pick them up and didn't, they're right there. there was nowhere to go. they're stuck, okay. if they did pick them up, then they're gone. they're history. >> they've got to be desperate, though, these guys. as you mentioned. they've got to find food, they've got to find water. as you say, they're not moving around at night. how are they surviving if they are, indeed, in the woods. >> well you know you watch all the survival shows, you know.

some of them are even naked. there is stuff you can live and eat on when you're in the climate. you're right. they're looking for a house, a gun, food and shelter. they've got to find a car. remember the ex-l.a. sheriff that went bad? they burned him out and stuff like that? . this is a real -- we're going to

start a show in a couple months don, called "the dirty dozen." it's the 12 guys that i went around and trained bounty hunters for the past 12 years. and i picked 12 of the best and we're going to go state-to-state catching the worst. i'd love to start my show off on these two guys. >> thafgs a very subtle plug for your show that you threw in there and i let you get away with it. >> i didn't mean to do it like that, brother. i waited until the very last. you're excited sitting here. every day i wake up and you're still telling me they're not caught makes me want to go a step closer to it. this is my forte. this is my game. >> i'm not excited. i'm excited if they catch them.

>> you should come along with me. >> that's a little dangerous for me. thank you, though, dog. >> stop it. >> thank you very much. we'll see you next time. >> more of our breaking news coverage. the man hunt for two education caped killers. and coming up what is it like to live behind bars in a maximum security prison. i'm going to ask a former inmate.

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back now with breaking news. the former assistant director of the f.b.i. who led the team who captured the man who bombed the olympics in 1996. also, roy anderson. i'll tell you what, you want to listen to this. he's now a senior case maker at fortune society. we have assembled three great experts. first, to kres. you have been with us every night since this story began. are you surprised they haven't

caught these guys yet? >> i'm a little bit surprised. they are on foot. and i think their best leads are still in willsboro. i think this vermont thing is a little bit of a red herring. >> you say that joyce mitchell saved her own life. why do you say that? >> i don't think they would have had any use for her after they drained her afmtm card and got the ride to where they want to go. they look at people as objects and i just don't think they would have kept her around. they would have killed her. >> and people on the set are shaking their heads and agreeing with you. what's et like in clinton? >> clinton is one of the most formidable prisons in new york state. that wall when you see it it's so high, so long. it becomes something that you think it's just impossible to

get around. >> and when you heard two people got out of there? >> i was very surprised to hear that. >> i think the fact that you're talking about cutting through metal, the fact that they had this elaborate plan and the fact that security was so tight. >> is there a lot of corruption there? is there a lot of contraband? >> well, yes. it's there for everything. but i would say the overall piece, such an elaborate plan, i couldn't see it happening. >> wouldn't you hear power tools? >> yeah, you would normally hear something like that. it would be, turn up the radio, there's people playing chess, you could have something like that happen. >> so what do they do? the final -- they finished it during the day and did the

escape at night? >> when the check came through, the guard walks around and goes back and sits down somewhere, time to go. >> what's it like on the honor block? >> on most honor blocks you have more freedoms to interact with other people to sit, talk play chess, talk, watch tell vix. >> and other prisoners, right? >> it's easy if you want to co-opt someone. >> is this an odd relationship between prison workers and prisoners? >> no, it's not. 7 out of 10 report having

relationships. what happens when you're working in a prison and i've been in easily 18, 19 different state prisons. >> when i asked you if it's oon odd relationship i meant is it odd to be that close in this block? >> that's how one develops a relationship. we don't know if that happened in this case. but we have seen study that is inmates have relationships. in pact when you're training corrections officers one of the things that we train corrections officers to do is to know your boundaries. but don't be afraid to show the inmate respect. respect for your humanity. you give respect, you get respect in return. i don't know how many years she worked with matt or with both men, especially if you're dealing with somebody who is trying to co-opt you.

>>. >> is it your sense that someone was manipulated? >> yeah, i think so. i take the position that prison guards thems are paid way too low. she was one of the high ere paid employees in the place. this would have been all about charm and guile and just winning her over in some fashion. >> roy, you've seen it. talk abit. >> it starts with something simple like a stick of gum. e someone that doesn't have the highest self

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why do some women fall in love with dangerous criminals and develop relationships with convicts who will never leave prison. i want to talk about this phenomenon with film maker joy krauss. the director of serial killer groupies. casey jordan back with us. i'm glad to have both of you here this evening. joy, you're so fascinated that you produgsed a film about them. what surprised you the most? >> well the very first thing that surprised me the most was

that someone could actually get married while he was on death row. i had no idea that that was possible. and once i found that out and began researching, you know how popular these guys are in prison, it really blew my mind. it just continues to fascinate me. i want to know why women are attracted to these men. >> i'm single, i have no children. i live a very simple life in an apartment. >> i've been through a lot. i've had a lot of bad relationships. one very bad. and that's what made me strong.

>> there are some women who truly believe in the innocence, in the goodness of the man that they loved. >> do they have any particular thing in common? >> some of them are attracted to the infamy of a serial killer. you get a letser from charles man son, the most popular people at the party. there's a term which i understand katesindicates being around somebody very danger ois can be sexually arousing. other people are just very lonely. there are many, many reasons. it just works for some people. >> we have been talking about that on cnn with this show. i want you to talk about the man

who killed his own family. >> he loved me just the way i was. and he loved me unconditionally. and i don't think anybody in my family can say that they loved me for who i am and what i am. i'll take it when i can get it. >> it was because i like being alone. he's here and i'm there. i can talk and write. i've got my independence and i don't have somebody telling me what to do and how to do it. >> so you know doctor, that part is, i guess, okay. but, again, this person is a notorious killer. so what's going on here? >> she nailed it. i really appreciate that subject's candor. she admits she had a huge void in her life. and this man loves her for who

she is. he smells her vulnerability. it doesn't matter what he's done in the past. he's fulfilling my needs now. particularly for women who have been abused or ne glekted growing up, particularly sexually abused. they get to be in love with them pen pals with them and they don't have to have physical contact or sex with them. it's the ultimate fantasy without any risk. some of them even get conjugals. i think the real question is why are 90% women? and why do they have this hujs need that only women can fill? >> it's the ultimate in safety.

>> there is one women in your film who was involved with the hillside strangler and something really terrible happened. >> um-hmm. >> veronica met the hillside strangler before his trial. and she thought that he could help her with a screen play and got manipulated by him and ended up doing a copy cat murder. to try to prove that they have the wrong man. >> she was caught and ended up receivabling 22 years in prison for that crime. >> thanks to both of you. when we come right back comedian colin quinn says he's got the answers to america's

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if you watch this show we talk a lot about race and what people think they have the answer sometimes to the racial questions. joining me now is colin quinn. and he says that he has some of the answer. okay. so let's solve some of this stuff. let me start off by saying i hate political correctness. >> you don't. it's almost a form of a racial -- it's sort of like pandering in a weird way. >> not in a weird way, it is pandserring. you don't learn anything.

>> you can't talk about that. they have to take it. >> and you have to allow people to make mistakes otherwise, you're stuck in the same way. and i watch others and people talk about it all the time. >> and there's almost like a feeling that people are being watched. people are now playing to the people they follow them and go hey, listen you're off the message with that a little bit. they say it ooze a positive thing but then they're writing for the people. >> this is video that's gone viral. >> i see it as this guy is more of a supercome h cop. there's always the one dwie that's too enthusiastic to drop.

>> white kids are in the pool. swimming. [ laughter ] >> that's the thing about that. here's the thing about that. there is -- you can hold two thoughts in your mind. you can say maybe this guy has an issue with black people, i don't know. but maybe those kids should comply so that they don't get thrown on the grounds. you're either on this side or that side of everything. >> do you think the officer would have freeted a group of white kids the same way? >> i think he might not have felt as threatened.

i think he might have felt jumpy. i think there might have been an added, hyper thing to it. >> and there are black people in the neighborhood that feel the same way you do. so listen you have a one-man show coming up. it's made by jerry seinfeld. >> i do this joke about the way people need that -- justify their cell phone. i knead to have it with me because people are so important. well they don't seem very important the way you scroll through them like a gay french king chlgt i could imagine a time, and this is a serious thing. could imagine a time that a gay person moves their hands in a flourishing motion and you now need to apologize.

re people who don't want to hear what they have to say. that's what we're supposed to do in college. people have different ideas. >> do you think he's right? >> it's been like that for 20 years. it's been that way since the '950s. now it's become more of a thing where people are, like, i felt personally violated. so it's not only a legal thing. i felt unsafe. >> did you hear what bob costa said about caitlin? and people are saying that i can't believe that you said that.

>> he's getting an award for inspiration and for being a trail blazer. >> so here's a book right? you've got the book right here. that's your coloring book. and, also you have a new one-man place. adds we said it opens on july 9th at the cherry lane theater right here in new york city. are you coming back? >> jerry is going to be mincing around the state for that one. thank you very much. the cnn original series "the 70s" premiers tomorrow night at 9:00. burr first, here's your 70s minute.

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>> you know abbey, i'm an old man. i've been watching "sesame street" since the '70s. so you weren't there -- are you originally from sesame street? >> i'm from fairy side gardens in queens. >> when did you move? >> we've been here for a really, really long time. the vaccination song, what's

going on here. >> ia player's going to play play play and a hater's going to hate. shake it off. shake it off. >> and then when they happen, they just stuck you in the face. >> oh, for all of my sesame street stories and interviews go to cnn tonight facebook page. that's it for tonight, thanks for watching. "ac 360" starts right now.