tion song, what's going on here. >> ia player's going to play play play and a hater's going to hate. shake it off. shake it off. >> and then when they happen, they just stuck you in the face. >> oh, for all of my sesame street stories and interviews go to cnn tonight facebook page. that's it for tonight, thanks for watching. "ac 360" starts right now.

>> in the hour ahead, the insight of how they got out of the clinton correctional facility. we'll hear from the former inmate.

what a different story here in this state compared to dan omora. r, tonight, john, we haven't seen any evidence of that. om the air?

>> we'll have the ground guys put us on and we'll take a look. we can do a wide area search for strategic views. t. it would be over head. they would need us up high and e and e so we don't spook them. pinning them down is no easy task.

if you look out there in the distance that's the canadian border just ten miles away. >> we're just from the north of the prison from the outer perimeter, if you will. >> we could also see clinton correctional facility where the men escaped from. >> you can see it's not far from the heavily wooded area. it wouldn't take a lot to disappear, right? >> they could have gone to the north and to the south or the southwest, you look at all of the mountain ranges out there. >> easy to get lost anywhere. so much so search teams back in danamora today, just blocks from the prison going house-to-house, just in case they missed something. >> how can you assist with that? what can you see that they can't.

ns to send troopers from new york to where you are? >> absolutely, john. if necessary, right now, new york state police and vermont state police are working together in this case. and already, troopers have been called out to patrol some of the campgrounds in this area. they're going to be putting police boats out here telling folks all they can about these two guys who are on the run and checking boats as well out on the lake. but the trouble is that they think they are here, possibly in vth vthd. but, still, john they don't know where in this state they might be. >> yeah, it is a big state.

randy kay oh, thank you so much. >> let's get perspective from three people who know fugitives. how they think, how they run, how they're tracked down. rob ert fernandez who runs the similar task force and darren gilio, chief investigator from the firm north american investigations. i want to tart e start with you, lenny, it is your investigation that says investigators are looking beyond new york. well joan it's certainly an intense man hunt but it's also a fugitive investigation. with information and intelligence that's coming into the task force, they're going to send leads all over the world if need be. there are other states in questions. i'm not part of the investigation, but i'm sure they saw it necessary to send these leads to a few other states to look at some people do some

interviews, conduct surveillance. not saying that these two guys are there. we don't know where they are. vermont, new york, mexico, we have no idea. folks need to keep that in mind. >> to be clear, you e you're getting this to people who are connected to the investigation. o you will not tell us the three states they've expanded to. there's a fear they could be watching this show correct? >> that's a good possibility. one never knows. but there may be more than three states. i'm not sure where any leads go beyond that. but they're certainly covering their tracks and not leaving any stones unturned. >> i want to turn to you, robert. you have some conversation of what lenny is saying right now. vin gaes toy rs are following up leads in trooes three other states. wha degree of resources are needed. >> i just want to be clear.

leads going out to other states, it could be something as ino ouk e nouk yous as talking to a disabout the relative. it doesn't mean that any of those people were seen in these states. we have to keep in perspective. the entire country needs to stay individual lent. if you had a plan to leave and go to vermont and it was on tv would you still go? i mean how far could you get in five days on foot? or how far could you get in five days in a car? i don't want people in california or texas to say, well that suspicious guy who just checked into the motel next to me that's not him because these guys might be in vermont. so the public needs to be individual lent.

>> when you get hundreds of leads, can you possibly follow up on every one? >> absolutely. we have literally thousands of u.s. marshals and federal and local task force marshals that can respond immediately on any lead. and these are experienced fugitive investigators. >> darren you say that these fugitives might try to blend back into the general population. why would they risk that? why would they risk coming into contact with anyone at all? and if they did, how would they go about blending? >> i think as time goes by that becomes more of a realistic situation. and the law enforcement personnel are actually able to blend into society. but they have to make a decision.

new identity. there's a lot of complications that these fugitives face if they want to blend back in. it's a difficult thing, but it can be done. if they do try to blend in, what is going to be the hard part? it's one thing to cover up your sleeves, wear a shirt. >> i think this is a marvelous chance. i could do the work of 10,000 dektsives right now. if anyone watching this works at a tattoo removal place. look at these tattoos. if you remember seeing either of these guys come in to get their tattoos removed, call the police. call us. in the future, if these guyings come in don't try to stop them

yourself but discreetly go somewhere and call 9-1-1. i guarantee you there will be an army of patrol officers that respond. but that should extend further. e, they've broken an ankle or need stitches keep an -- look at these pictures and it's up to you, the public, to call in with information. we need your help. >> be alert. that's for sure. >> thanks so much. as a quick reminder make sure to set your dvr so you can watch "ac 360" whenever you e you would like. we have more on past fears that richard matt would stage an

escape from his murder trial. also two people who can tell us what term turns people into killers like matt. you'll hear from richard matt's accomplice who watched them torture and murder a man. we'll ask if knowing how they tick how these killers tick offers clues into catching them. if you have moderate to severe rheumatoid arthritis like me... and you're talking to a rheumatologist about a biologic this is humira. this is humira helping to relieve my pain and protect my joints from further damage. this is humira helping me reach for more. doctors have been prescribing humira for more than 10 years. humira works for many adults. it targets and helps to block a specific source of inflammation that contrubutes to ra symptoms. humira can lower your ability to fight infections, including tuberculosis. serious, sometimes fatal infections and cancers including lymphoma have happened, as have blood liver and nervous system problems, serious allergic reactions and new or worsening heart failure. before treatment get tested for tb. tell your doctor if you've been to

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get it at discover.com. more breaking news tonight. new insight, as well. just how methodical and ruthless authorities believe matt to be long before he made his break. at his trial in 2008, there were snipers on the rooftops. and, now, the buffalo news is reporting on some of the other action law enforcement took back then to hand off any attempted break out. buffalo news and buffalo news dot com has those details. he joins us now by phone. lou, you say there was actually a plan there was a plan for richard matt to break out during this murder trial.

explain. >> that's correct, john. matt's attorney at the time christopher privateera had complained that there was such a large presence of niagara county deputies in the courthouse when he was being tried for murdering and dismembering the body of that 76-year-old businessman, his former employer. but what was not known at the time was that the niagara county sheriff's department had received incredible information that a third party was going to attempt to break them out -- bust them out of the niagara county courthouse in lockport, new york. it never happened wauz of the extreme security provided by the deputies. >> so you're getting information now that there was a plot to break him out of this trial when it was happening in 2008. any indication from the people

you're talking to whoever was behind this plot back then in '08 might be ininvolved with him now in this breakout? >> no indication that way. not at all. there have been rorts that he's currently reached out to people. i wouldn't be surprised if it's the same collection of acquaintances. when he was in the courtroom, deputies fitted him with an electric stun belt to twart him from any type of maneuver to escape. this guy x as i said he's highly intelligent and you can't put anything passed him. >> clearly not. if noeg else it shows you the level of concern that there has been about him for years and years now. lou, michelle, thank you so much. let's get more now on what richard matt was con vicked of at that trial.

in 1997 he kidnapped his elderly former boss. what happened next is hard to imagine. for one person still alive, what richard paet did is not the stuff of imagination. it is living memory. talk about his accomplice lee bates who watched it happen. >> he is obviously a killer. can you explain what you've seen him do? what you know he's capable of? >> the better definition is evil. in quomo wanted to take a picture of the face of the devil, that's the face you would see. >> he did kill mr. richardson. >> i understand he tortured him. he did terrible things to him

before finally killing him. can you just explain a little bit to people who don't know what he did? >> torture is probably an understatement. he used duct tape to tie him up. he beat him with everything and anything that he possibly can. a knife sharpener. a security device, the club for my automobile. he physically grabbed mr. rikerson's hands and pulled his fingers back until they snapped. >> this is while he's duct taped in the trunk of the car? >> even before.

and, yeah. eventually when he opened the trunk and mr. rickerson told him i'll take you to the money, let me out. and then he done said you've been playing games with me. i don't believe you. and in a fit of rage, he reached into the car and snapped his neck in front of me. >> an almost unbelievable description of whand. i want to start with you here when you hear that description of how brutality richard matt tortured and murdered his boss what goes through your mind?

>> my sense is i listen and read about him. this is season who's psychopathic. the level of violence is really at the extreme end. almost to the point of being sadistic. it's something that he enjoys. it enables him to control and dominate people. but the one thing that is very critical to understand is that there are these people that really have no conscience for their behavior. they feel no guilt for what they do. so his level of dangerousness is truly at the extreme end. >> he said that matt killed people and smiled about it. he smiled about it.

what kind of person does that? well what we're talking about is a stone cold psychopath. and he's sadistic. he enjoys it. the power is extremely important to him. whether that's physically or by pulling a person's emotional heart strings so he can get what he wants. this is a man who knows how to charm and ma nip late. and will keep people around as long as they're useful. like mary ellen said he will not just throw you away he will destroy you when he's done with you. >> stone cold psychopath. >> the question becomes for now, is it easier to spot a person like this. or perhaps does e he tell you he'll do anything it takes to stay on the loose.

>> he'll do anything it takes to stay on the loose. he's all about feeding his ego. getting everything he can right now. done, he's done. and you're at risk. you're at danger, no matter what he says. they're always lying. >> mary ellen, any insight on how to catch him? >> at this point, people are saying he's exhausted. he's worn out. but that's not consistent. he's being kwhased by hundreds of law enforcement. and the other thing is they have a very low threshold for fear.

so what would cause you and chris and i to be extremely fearful, he's not at all afraid. and the most dangerous part of it is he will engage in this gratuitous violence if he comes across someone. not because they keep him from getting the car that he wants to carjack because he is someone who engages in violence because he enjoys it. >> thanks so much. terrifying. just ahead, we're going to dig deeper onto what chris touched on a moment ago. joyce mitchell's relationship. why would she want to ep help them.

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awww, you're nervous. that's so cute. ♪ tonight's breaking news has expanded to vermont. they've been on the run for five days. according to authorities, joyce mitchell a prison taylor beprended them and may have planned to meet them with a get away car after their escape. it is one of the least comprehensible pieces of this story.

why would she want to help two cold-blooded killers. jason, you spoke to her daughter-in-law today. what did she have to say about this relationship? >> i spoke to page mitchell her daughter-in-law at length this afternoon. she's heard a lot of the allegations. she's read a lot of the reports. 95 pbt of what she's reading and hearing is simply not true. first, i did ask her about that allegation that her mother-in-law had befriended her and she talked about that. she said it's appalling to me. i'm totally disgusted that anyone would think she had a relationship with these men and that she would knowingly help them. i also asked her about that

allegation that her cell phone was used. this was her explanation. she said i believe she was persuaded to contact people for him who knew about an art piece or work of art. her heart was in the right place. she was trying to do something nice and it backfired. did mitchell's daughter-in-law have anything to say about that? >> the allegation that perhaps her mother-in-law was involved with that she said absolutely no way she would give them power tools. there's just no way. it's ridiculous. she was going to be the get away. she was going to help them once she got to the other end. she said that is completely

ridiculous. when i asked her about that had her mother-in-law been released she said she was stressed and been released from the hopt over the weekend. as soon as that happened, she was questioned. >> joining me now is someone who knows firsthand what life is like. he joins me tonight. one of the big questions right now has to do with this prison worker, joyce mitchell. >> how much contact to they have? >> i may have worked with her.

i'm not sure if she's the same person i worked with, so i can't say for sure. but basically, the person would be 2 person you go to for certain instruments or any particular work issue that you have. >> anyone monitoring that contact? >> from my experience not overly obama ser vabt. i mean, just casually observant. >> so it wouldn't be impossible to have a private conversation. and could one of these people bring in tools, for instance? >> look we don't know how these prisoners got these power tools and allowed them to dig through the walls or breakthrough the walls. is it possible? >> you have to understand that

the facilities pretty much provide whatever is needed. it's either a tool or a piece of metal. they nearly lock everything down until it's found. >> if they know it's missing, that's the whole thing. >> all right. these two inmates were on the honor block. what would that provide? >> the cells are not locked like they are. >> so a minimum, these two would be able to talk without raising eye brews.

said have a nice day. what do you make of that? >> to me, that speaks a certain level of confidence, for whatever reason. it could have been whatever plan they had didn't work out. >> when all is said and done were you shocked? >> i was a little bit shocked. clinton is notorious for the wall. it's a very large wall. it's something that's overwhelming. it just seems like the appearance it any max numb security appearance seems like it's inescapable.

>> the help they might have had from the prison seem strez. if they did, it might seem like something out of a movie until you look at some of the things that happened in real life. eric menendez started writing to him when she saw him on tv. on trial for killing his parents when he was convicted and serving a life sentence. what makes someone get into a reslags ship whatever kind,if a man is in prison for life. actually it's been studied quite a built. we'll have that next. ♪ we call ourselves the freedom hikers. the turtle cove fin club. the team jet runners. what we do is fun.

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the breaking news tonight. expanding the scope is growing. one thing that is not, however, is that a woman, the prison worker may have played some role in helping them. it doesn't mean his relationship life stops.

the question is why. dan simon reports. >> charlie would not hurt a fly. literally. >> this is charles manson's girlfriend. 53 years his junior. >> he's always there for me emotionally. >> this is the wife of eric menendez. if ones that withdrew tally killed their parents. >> the holding of the hands when i'm with him is a big, big thing. you wouldn't think so. >> they're the women who never know what it's like to do dinner and a movie. who would decide to get involved with a prisoner? >>. >> i like him for who he is and no matter where he was.

they've been together for about a year. >> why date someone in prison? >> because, the option is not to date him at all. noek else makes me happy like he does. so it's worth it. >> chelsea says she knew him before they went to prison, but they weren't together then. there's a host of web sites to make connections like inmate passions and meet an inmate. >> david writes an e i'm an easy going, good-hearted man.

>> someone's down to earth and keeping their word. >> daniel writes i have a warm personality and find it easy to make friends. experts say oftentimes there was a psychological condition associated with those who seek out con incompetent vikts. >> >>. >> i would prefer that he not be in prison. i prefer that he be here. >>. >> chelsea says she didn't deliberately seek a prisoner to fall in love with. it just happened. >> sheila eisenberg has study this extensively. she joins me now.

>> so we don't know the exact nature of the relationship between joyce mitchell who worked inside this prison and these two convicts. i guess what i'm curious about is is there a difference that women who work inside prisons have and prapsz women who write letters and fall in love or develop a relationship from the outside. the name is a lack of reality and a romantic love and an excite m. what they'll find exciting is the lack of freedom that goes along with the relationship.

the secretiveness. i think it's the secretiveness and the excitement the forbidden nature of these relationships that's come to all of these women? >> who has the power is it the convictover the woman? >> it's the woman. my research showed me this was the first time for many of these women that they were in power. and they were on top, basically. for example, if a wrom working in a prison decides to help a prisoner and she's 5:00 septembering collect phone calls or making visits, she's got the power.

hat powers does the convict have in this relationship. convicts are generally con men. they con the women. they sweet talk them. they put the women up on a pedestal and give them the kind of attention, the kind of affection and the kind of you're the only one and ewe're the center of my world kind of attention that no one gets in the real world. the outside world is messy. there's work, there's children, there's problems. there's real life. when a convict is inside and he's got nothing to do but concentrate on this relationship he can write love

letters and love poetry through paintings and spend hours and hours wooing this woman. and she may well be. >> thanks to much. >> my pleasure. >> just ahead, new details on the plan to send more u.s. troops to iraq to help train iraqi soldiers to battle isis. some are drawing comparisons to vietnam.

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tonight, a better picture of exactly how many more u.s. troops will be heading to iraq when they will deploy and what they will be doing when they get there. it's been more than 24 hours to send u.s. troops to train and already, some house democrats are saying they see similarities to vietnam. jim, what's the plan here? >> we've got 400 troops going to take the fight to isis. basically, telling them how to take the fight to isis. in total, we have about 3500.

but just in the last year, look at how much we've come up. thavs when isis swept into isle rook e rack from syria. >> the question is will that number be able to do what the administration wants them to be able to do? >> the officials i've talked to were saying they do expect that it will get those suni tribes ininvolved in the west.

make it more of a isis battle. they're talking about years. and when you think of this you woond e wonder how much it's going to continue to rise. >> turn now to a dire situation in louisiana where flooding has left hundreds of homes under water. the red river is at its highest levels in 70 years. take a look at these. these pick which you ares give an idea of the scope of damage. the real devastation is on the ground. where the battle is being fought with hand bags and skrszed fingers.

>> this is the highest the riffer has been since the 19 ho e 40s. ying to keep the water out. dusty williams and his dad have been working around the clock like so many families here stacking sandbags and pumping water trying everything they can to keep the rising water at bay. >> every time we got a forecast. we come back in. add sandbags. working 24 hours a day. friend.

family. can't be more thankful to them to help us. because there is no way we could do it all day, all night by ourselves. >> reporter: for them it has worked. but for some they weren't so lucky. hundreds of homes in the area have been impacted. the worst filled chest high with water. residents living along the river side of the levee say they knew there was a risk of flooding when they moved in. but when they were willing to take. >> it's a beautiful piece of property. you can't, whether you build on the bayou, creek, river. it could happen. >> it will be months before the river reaches its normal level. residents completely dry out. >> they have been in for the long haul. this is going to continue to be a long haul. though the water begins to recede. they have to continually run generators, get fuel. man the pumps 24/7 until it gets below the sandbags. still a long way to go. >> long way to go. meteorologist jennifer grey joins us from boger city. jennifer, pictures are frightening. what are the people there telling you they're most concerned about right now? >> well, you know rain is in the

forecast, end of the week and the weekend. of course, and inch here, 1/2 inch there. not what they're most concerned about. their biggest concern is actually if a tropical system develops in the gulf of mexico in the next four to six weeks. and dumps, four, six, eight inches of rain across portions of louisiana, even texas. that would be their biggest concern. and cause this river to rise even more, john. >> we'll be watching the skies for some time. jennifer grey. thank you. we'll be right back.

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i didn't even think about it. about death. but shooting at those things, anybody in the camera was shot. immediately. by a russian soldier. at that time, i didn't think about that. but i found that i had to think about it. >> you were alive and holding a camera at a very important time in history.